Happily Ever After: Relationships Are Hard

[ShadowFacts]

 

Yes.  Traditional Robin Hood (and so far, they've not given him enough of a story to make him not-traditional Robin Hood) would never have dated Regina.  Giving Prince John or the Sheriff of Nottingham stilettos and breasts would not have been enough of a motive for him to completely ignore everything they'd done..

 

Cracked me up.  But yes, there is no way I'm ever buying these two as soulmates.  Maybe the fact that it was stolen pixie dust will be the eventual explanation for why it doesn't work out, because there's no way it will.  One or both of them will bail. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm still going with the idea that more than one guy has that tattoo.

 

You can see it's Robin Hood if you look close enough in Quite a Common Fairy, iirc. I doubt they would do that since some people might find that confusing.

[Mari]

You can see it's Robin Hood if you look close enough in Quite a Common Fairy, iirc. I doubt they would do that since some people might find that confusing.

And it is working with some people.  There are definitely the fans that think Marian should just die already, and that Robin and Regina should just get together because Regina deserves some happiness after everything she's been through.

 

I'm not one of them, but they do exist.

[Crimson Belle]

Seriously, why do Adam and Eddy think reporting a crime is wrong and makes you as bad as the criminal? Are they in the mafia?

Their moral compass seems to have been demagnetized.  The entire way they want the audience to see morality and judge their characters is so dangerously screwed up that it's pretty offensive.

[scenicbyway]

This. I bet she was the go-ahead to either cradle Emma or find Neal.  I can't tell you how thrilled I am about her connection with Emma. Finally Emma's past becomes relevant enough for the writers to possibly explore it!

 

I'm actually kind of wondering what Emma's relationship with Rumple is. Does he still like her because she's confident? Does he care she was Neal's former lover and his grandson's mom? Rumple seems to only "like" certain people beyond his deal business.

 

But why would Rumple send the Snow Queen to take care of Emma?  Why wouldn't he go himself and find Bae if there was a way to the land without magic?

[KingOfHearts]

 

But why would Rumple send the Snow Queen to take care of Emma?  Why wouldn't he go himself and find Bae if there was a way to the land without magic?

Apparently Rumple knew there were ways, since he knew baby Emma would escape the curse and come back for them. I think he stuck with the curse for himself because that was what was prophesied. Rumple ignored other alternatives (the magic beanstalk you can see from space, the Shadow, magic wardrobes...).

Edited October 13, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

If you go with the assumption that Rumple was STILL too much of a coward to just go to a Land Without Magic, it makes sense that he'd send the SQ instead of going himself: the whole curse thing wasn't just to find Bae, but to find Bae *and* bring magic with him when he went. 

[scarynikki12]

Elizabeth Mitchell is 44 so we have to take age into account.  Dairy Queen was fully grown when she met Elsa in Arandelle years before Snow and Charming met.  She's old enough to be her aunt in fact, and is the same age in Storybrooke, so I have a hard time believing that she could be a former foster mother without aging a day.  I honestly don't know what's going to happen with her relationship with Emma, unless the altered timeline will factor in, but I agree that if she found a way to get to our world and retain her magic (to stop the aging process) then Rumpel would have come too.  He may still have wanted the Curse cast, because he'd put so much time into Regina's training and could have wanted a back up, but it wouldn't have been necessary.

[Guest]

Elizabeth Mitchell is 44 so we have to take age into account.  Dairy Queen was fully grown when she met Elsa in Arandelle years before Snow and Charming met.  She's old enough to be her aunt in fact, and is the same age in Storybrooke, so I have a hard time believing that she could be a former foster mother without aging a day.

 

I think its easy enough for them to hand wave not aging as "person with magic" and that the land without magic had magic once the curse happened.  Everyone else was in Groundhog's day but Snow Queen was running around outside Storybrooke with her magic and not aging (like Rumpel doesn't age)

[Camera One]

Can't wait to find out how the Snow Queen had the ability to visit the Land Without Magic, if they go that route.  Magic popsicle?  

Edited October 14, 2014 by Camera One

[Guest]

Can't wait to find out how the Snow Queen had the ability to visit the Land Without Magic, if they go that route.  Magic popsicle?  

 

I've been assuming that Emma being sent / curse cracked the door between lands and after that it became easier.  That's the only way it makes sense that Rumple needed an elaborate plot to get there and its been so easy that everyone and their brother can jump realms since then.  I argue that Neal was in Peter Pan England, not our England.

 

I'm really hopeful that Snow Queen's tie is to Emma's childhood because from a relationship perspective that is a gold mine that the haven't exploited yet.

[Jean]

I think the realm jumping only became possible after Emma broke the curse and Rumple turned Storybrooke into a magical place. Before Rumple brought magic to town with the true love potion, it was still (nearly) impossible without the beans and the wardrobe. Jefferson's hat for one still didn't work.

I don't know if DQ would've needed a way to "retain" her magic. If she was inherently magical like Elsa and Emma, and that dragon that was killed by Tamara, she would still have her magic in LWM vs someone like Rumple, Cora and Woegina who wouldn't have it.

I do wonder at the difference in how the DQ reacted to Elsa her niece and then Emma. She seemed a bit softer towards Emma. Is she bitter towards Elsa's parents and therefore can't completely connect with her? Elsa pissed her off before the urning? Or is it just that she met Elsa the grown up Queen with a supoort system who would prioritize Anna and maybe Kristoff over her. Kid Emma would've been just like her and totally reliant on her.

[KingOfHearts]

I think the realm jumping only became possible after Emma broke the curse and Rumple turned Storybrooke into a magical place. Before Rumple brought magic to town with the true love potion, it was still (nearly) impossible without the beans and the wardrobe. Jefferson's hat for one still didn't work.

 

 

Bae. Walsh. Emma. August. The Darlings. They all realm-jumped from and to the Land Without Magic before a curse took down the "walls". Such a plot hole, show!

Edited October 14, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[regularlyleaded]

I'm really hopeful that Snow Queen's tie is to Emma's childhood because from a relationship perspective that is a gold mine that the haven't exploited yet.

I know, right. I read someone's crack speculation on tumblr (it was a joke) that because ONCE's family tree is so ridiculous they were expecting for the Snow Queen and Emma's connection reveal to be that the Snow Queen is Emma's real mom. Utterly absurd, I know. Ridonkulous. And yet, as my mind formed the initial response of "No", somewhere mid-syllable my response morphed into, "....Tell me more."

 

I'm so hard up for any story line that fleshes out Emma's childhood (JFC it's about damn time!), and Elizabeth Mitchell layered so many emotions in her expression when The Snow Queen first lays eyes on Emma (dare I say there was almost a hint of affection), that I'm just like, "YeeeeEESSSS! I'm so on board this crazy train to Hell!" May the TV Gods have mercy on my soul...

[Jean]

Snow Queen is Emma's real mom

Well going by A&E's logic, we never did get an onscreen cheek swab and DNA test or pixie dust identification so.....

We also never got a Henry DNA test either. I still live in hope with this one.

[regularlyleaded]

We also never got a Henry DNA test either. I still live in hope with this one.

You and me both, Jean. You and me both.

[Shanna Marie]

I saw a post yesterday or maybe the day before about why Hook and Emma were reacting their respective ways to the idea of danger, and it got me started thinking, but then I couldn't find it again to respond, so since it's about their relationship, I figured I'd put this here.

 

In "Rocky Road," we had Emma wanting to keep Hook safe and away from the danger because she's lost just about every man she's had feelings for. Meanwhile, he's rushing into danger rather than letting her face it alone, although he's had his fair share of loved ones dying in his arms.

 

I think one difference is time -- Neal and Walsh died within the last couple of weeks and Graham died maybe a year and a half to two years ago while Milah died centuries ago. Related to time, there's also the issue of the mindset each has. Emma spent a year not even aware Hook existed, so any feelings she has for him span a matter of weeks, while he had the missing year during which he thought he'd never see her again and then he's been miraculously reunited with her. Because he has that self-awareness thing going on, he's given conscious thought to the idea of whether he could ever love again, as he said in the Echo Cave, and has made the choice to do so. I don't think that Emma has even let herself consider the issue of loving again. It just sort of happened, and now she's confronting it all at once without the chance to process whether she's willing to take the risk again.

 

But then I think their history and experiences play into it, as well. Emma had a rough life, but it was reasonably "normal." Hook grew up in a world of magic and adventure where he was a naval officer and a pirate. At the age when Emma was homeless and shoplifting, he was fighting in a war that involved magical weapons. He spent centuries in Neverland, then a while bouncing back and forth between two magical crazy queens. All this crazy stuff that's been going on isn't really crazy stuff to him. It's all in a day's work and nothing to get that excited about. Emma's still getting adjusted to that and so is more inclined to have the "Yikes! Danger!" attitude. Also, in Hook's last relationship, he and Milah were pirates together. They were likely in danger together often and knew that there was a chance something would happen to one or both of them. It was part of the job, and all they could hope for was to face the threat together and go down fighting together, hopefully with one of them trying to save the other. The trauma of losing Milah may not have just been that she died in his arms, but that he was utterly helpless and unable to defend her.

 

And that leads them to being at cross-purposes. Emma's trying to protect him because she can't lose him, too, but in doing so, she's making him relive his worst nightmare of knowing the woman he loves is heading into danger and he's not at her side to face it with her. I don't think he was wanting to protect Emma when he went looking for the Snow Queen. He just didn't want to be helpless and on the sidelines when Emma faced danger and needed to be part of the team. If she's in danger, he wants to be at her side, regardless of the risk to him.

[Mari]

I saw a post yesterday or maybe the day before about why Hook and Emma were reacting their respective ways to the idea of danger, and it got me started thinking, but then I couldn't find it again to respond, so since it's about their relationship, I figured I'd put this here.

 

In "Rocky Road," we had Emma wanting to keep Hook safe and away from the danger because she's lost just about every man she's had feelings for. Meanwhile, he's rushing into danger rather than letting her face it alone, although he's had his fair share of loved ones dying in his arms.

 

I think one difference is time -- Neal and Walsh died within the last couple of weeks and Graham died maybe a year and a half to two years ago while Milah died centuries ago. Related to time, there's also the issue of the mindset each has. Emma spent a year not even aware Hook existed, so any feelings she has for him span a matter of weeks, while he had the missing year during which he thought he'd never see her again and then he's been miraculously reunited with her. Because he has that self-awareness thing going on, he's given conscious thought to the idea of whether he could ever love again, as he said in the Echo Cave, and has made the choice to do so. I don't think that Emma has even let herself consider the issue of loving again. It just sort of happened, and now she's confronting it all at once without the chance to process whether she's willing to take the risk again.

 

But then I think their history and experiences play into it, as well. Emma had a rough life, but it was reasonably "normal." Hook grew up in a world of magic and adventure where he was a naval officer and a pirate. At the age when Emma was homeless and shoplifting, he was fighting in a war that involved magical weapons. He spent centuries in Neverland, then a while bouncing back and forth between two magical crazy queens. All this crazy stuff that's been going on isn't really crazy stuff to him. It's all in a day's work and nothing to get that excited about. Emma's still getting adjusted to that and so is more inclined to have the "Yikes! Danger!" attitude. Also, in Hook's last relationship, he and Milah were pirates together. They were likely in danger together often and knew that there was a chance something would happen to one or both of them. It was part of the job, and all they could hope for was to face the threat together and go down fighting together, hopefully with one of them trying to save the other. The trauma of losing Milah may not have just been that she died in his arms, but that he was utterly helpless and unable to defend her.

 

And that leads them to being at cross-purposes. Emma's trying to protect him because she can't lose him, too, but in doing so, she's making him relive his worst nightmare of knowing the woman he loves is heading into danger and he's not at her side to face it with her. I don't think he was wanting to protect Emma when he went looking for the Snow Queen. He just didn't want to be helpless and on the sidelines when Emma faced danger and needed to be part of the team. If she's in danger, he wants to be at her side, regardless of the risk to him.

I think your analysis makes sense, Shanna Marie, but would like to add a little to Emma's motive.  Not only is all of this new to her, ever since she found out about the magic and mayhem that is her new life, she's been told her purpose is to help people and keep them safe;  she's special and has magic and is supposed to protect everyone--and she's heard it from most of the people around her.  Even Regina has used it, occasionally disparagingly, and expected Emma to defend everyone else.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Mari

[Rumsy4]

Not only that, Regina's reaction to Marian's return would have been a stark reminder of Graham's death at Regina's hands. And seeing Marian as a frozen popsicle witout any hope of a cure freaked her out even more. But Emma can't coddle Hook out of fear and always relegate him to baby-sitting duties--she needs to let him fight right along with her. And I think she is learning to do just that.

[YaddaYadda]

I doubt someone like Hook would actually be okay to hide from danger much like we've seen in 4x03 anyway.  I mean he blatantly courted danger.  He gets where she's coming from now and she knows where he's coming from.  You can't have a relationship that's unbalanced either.  He wanted to protect her as much as she wanted to protect him right before she put him on babysitting duties.

[HoodlumSheep]

This is completely out of the blue compared to the current previous posts, but i'm just chiming in to say I love the rumple/hook dynamic and hope to see more of their relationship in the future (we can talk about non-romantic relationships here can't we? Newbie here, And I couldn't find an outline/general rules for this particular thread, so tell me if i screwed up)

[ShadowFacts]

Hello, HoodlumSheep, love your name.  I think we've talked about parent-child relationships in here before, don't see any reason why friendships, etc. can't be included.  Because those relationships are hard, too, after all.  That's my take, anyway.

[HoodlumSheep]

Thanks, ShadowFacts, good to know! I'm glad that the show hasn't forgotten the antagonism between the two. Bobby and Colin play off each other so well!

[KingOfHearts]

Why haven't Snow and Emma bonded more over their pasts? They were both lonely, orphan bandits. Snow may have had a royal childhood, but after her dad was murdered she had to feel just as alone as Emma did. She wasn't always mommy-brained, and in fact Bandit Snow reminds me a lot of Emma. I don't understand why this hasn't been explored on the show.

[HoodlumSheep]

Why haven't Snow and Emma bonded more over their pasts? They were both lonely, orphan bandits. Snow may have had a royal childhood, but after her dad was murdered she had to feel just as alone as Emma did. She wasn't always mommy-brained, and in fact Bandit Snow reminds me a lot of Emma. I don't understand why this hasn't been explored on the show.

I know, right? Emma even got to see how awesome her mother was during that trip to the past.

[ShadowFacts]

Emma and Mary Margaret in her cursed state actually did bond, quite a lot, so it is extra nonsensical that they aren't now.  I am bugged a lot about the ruination of Snow's character.  Now Emma is going the route of being a Regina fan, which is sad.

[stealinghome]

Why haven't Snow and Emma bonded more over their pasts? They were both lonely, orphan bandits. Snow may have had a royal childhood, but after her dad was murdered she had to feel just as alone as Emma did. She wasn't always mommy-brained, and in fact Bandit Snow reminds me a lot of Emma. I don't understand why this hasn't been explored on the show.

The show is trying as hard as it possibly can to forget about Bandit Snow, though (or at least that she had a serious attitude when she was Bandit Snow). They've turned her into this avatar of "never can have even one single catty thought or I'M DOOMED FOREVER"-style goodness. I suspect they gloss over it because Bandit Snow just really isn't in their mental landscape anymore, so it doesn't occur to them to go there.

 

Plus it can't really be twisted to be all about Regina, so they're not interested anyway.

[Jean]

Knowing A&E they'll bond over being life ruiners. No thanks.

[Rumsy4]

They had this one conversation in Tink's Tree House about the fact that Snow has been on the run too. That's about the extent of their bonding over their itinerant past.

[ShadowFacts]

That's right, and when Henry didn't have his memory, Snow said she knew Emma from jail, didn't she?  And was in for banditry.  Henry's got some wacky role models, eh?  At least they're mostly reformed.  Leaving aside the murderous branches of the family tree.

[KAOS Agent]

Snow was never alone in her life on the run anyway. Everyone she met became a BFF. Hell, even Marian who'd never met her went to her death for Snow. I always find their attempt to write bonding over their respective pasts ring hollow because they lay on similarities that are very superficial and ignore the differences.  The Emma/Mary Margaret relationship was so nice because it wasn't built on a very poor parallel, but more on two lonely people becoming friends with Mary Margaret displaying a very sweet tendency to mother Emma without being overbearing about it. It was so lovely to see Emma and her mother bond without knowing that they truly were mother & daughter.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Snow was never alone in her life on the run anyway.

She was at times. She didn't always know the dwarves, or Red. There was also that time she isolated herself in a distant land. I do get your point that she wasn't nearly as alone as Emma, though. They were both alone in that they didn't have their parents to comfort them. They weren't exactly the same, but they had some similarities that haven't been explored on the show. Couldn't Snow at least say, "I know what it's like to be alone" or "I remember lying awake at night crying because my parents weren't there too"?

Edited October 16, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

Henry's got some wacky role models, eh?  At least they're mostly reformed.  Leaving aside the murderous branches of the family tree.

Poor Henry really doesn't stand a chance when you look at his family tree, if there's any "nature" playing a role.

 

Both his birth parents were thieves/shoplifters when he was conceived, and he was born in jail. On his mother's side of the family, his grandmother was a bandit (with extenuating circumstances, thanks to his adoptive mother/step-great-grandmother) and his grandfather was an imposter and fraud (with extenuating circumstances, thanks to his paternal grandfather). He had a great-grandfather who thought that the daughter of the woman he'd caught trying to defraud him was an ideal candidate for second wife and stepmother to his daughter and a great-grandfather who was a chronic alcoholic who sold one of his children to the Dark One. On his father's side of the family, his grandfather is a military deserter who became the Dark One and his grandmother ran away to become a pirate (and was eventually murdered by his grandfather). His great-grandfather ditched his kid to become an eternal teenager who ruled Neverland as some kind of twisted evil dictator.

 

And then he was brought up by the Evil Queen in a cursed town, so he's also screwed on the "nurture" side of things.

[Souris]

Shanna Marie wrote in Spoilers thread:

What destined lovers have there been other than Robin and Regina? My impression of all the other true love stuff was that it was something the couple created out of their relationship rather than something that was fated. In fact, Rumple didn't even see Snow and Charming coming, since he was trying to set up Charming with Abigail and seemed surprised when time-traveling Emma told him who her parents were.

 

 

I agree, I think the bulk of the True Love on the show has been presented as the couples working to be together rather than "Ta da! Fairy dust! You're fated!" Outlaw Queen being the exception. IMO, it's the willingness for the couple to fight for their love and overcome obstacles that makes it True Love, not that they were "meant to be." I don't necessarily feel as if Snow and Charming were fated to be true loves. They came together, fell for one another and made their love stronger and enduring by their actions and choices and sacrifices for one another.

Ariel and Eric fell in pretty insta-love, but she did fight for him, else their love wouldn't have survived.

[Shanna Marie]

IMO, it's the willingness for the couple to fight for their love and overcome obstacles that makes it True Love, not that they were "meant to be." I don't necessarily feel as if Snow and Charming were fated to be true loves. They came together, fell for one another and made their love stronger and enduring by their actions and choices and sacrifices for one another.

I think Rumple even played a role in "juicing" their true love once he figured out what might be in the works, with that memory potion and Charming having to fight to bring her back to herself, plus all the stuff that went on with George and Regina in keeping them apart. By making them work that much harder, their love grew stronger until it was strong enough to be magical. Although we haven't seen that part of their story, it seems as though Philip and Aurora had similar struggles before their kiss was magical. On the spinoff, Will and Ana also went through a lot of stuff keeping them apart before they overcame it all and came back together.

 

That's why Belle and Rumple having the aborted True Love's Kiss is a case of "one of these things is not like the other." They hadn't really had to fight for their love at that point, other than her fighting to get past his cruelty to her. I'd be more likely to believe it if it happened now after her losing her memories and getting them back and him dying and coming back, except for that pesky dagger issue.

 

Have there been any other romantic True Love's Kisses that we've seen? Nothing is coming to mind. I think Hook and Emma actually have to go through a lot more to fight to be together before they get there, and I'd rather they hold off on the magical confirmation of true love with them until the end of the series.

[Souris]

I'd like to have a TLK with Hook and Emma before the end of the show, if for no other reason that to just go ahead and settle it. A TLK doesn't mean that the Happily Ever After is reached yet. Plus, not gonna lie, I'm impatient. Snowing had multiple TLK's before their marriage, and since Captain Swan has been paralleled with them fairly extensively, I'd say they're set up for multiple TLK's, too.

[Rumsy4]

True Love's Kiss lost its luster for me after 3B, because of Regina. If Regina can TLK without a heart, it sort of cheapens the whole thing. And now just becasue Regina and Robin are destined as Soul Mates, they're also supposedly True Love by implication. I agree though, that every other True Love couple earned that title (I wouldn't add Rumbelle to that list at this point). I think A CS True Love's Kiss moment may come at the end of 4B or even 5A. 

[Shanna Marie]

Snowing had multiple TLK's before their marriage

Did they? I'm trying to remember. There was the biggie, the poisoned apple one from the very beginning of the series. But what other ones did they have? As I recall, Charming tried it when she took the potion to forget him, but since she forgot him it didn't work, and he ended up saving her by getting himself hit with an arrow. The only other one I can think of between the two of them was when he went under the sleeping potion to communicate with her across worlds, and she had to revive him when she returned. Opening with their big TLK is what kind of makes me think they'll close with Emma and Hook, maybe not in the final scene to really bookend the story but at least at the conclusion of the final big arc. Then again, on this show they'll probably end with Regina getting a big romantic TLK as she finally achieves her happy ending.

 

If Regina can TLK without a heart, it sort of cheapens the whole thing.

At least that wasn't romantic. But yeah, the established rules of the universe don't apply to Her Specialness.

[Camera One]

Then again, on this show they'll probably end with Regina getting a big romantic TLK as she finally achieves her happy ending.

 

The show will end like "Mulan", with the entire kingdom bowing to Regina, starting with Snow, Charming, Emma and Hook kneeling at her feet, and then behind them, Aurora, Cinderella, Ariel, Belle, Granny, Grumpy, Blue, etc., followed by the multitudes of citizens stretching as far as the eye can see.

[Souris]

Did they? I'm trying to remember. There was the biggie, the poisoned apple one from the very beginning of the series. But what other ones did they have? As I recall, Charming tried it when she took the potion to forget him, but since she forgot him it didn't work, and he ended up saving her by getting himself hit with an arrow. 

 

After he stepped in front of the arrow to keep Snow from committing murder by shooting Regina, she was so touched that he would do that for her that she kissed him -- and the TLK worked that time, overcoming the effects of the forgetting potion and restoring her memory. You know, I don't remember if there was a TLK aura or not. Can anybody else say for sure? But since it broke the potion's effects, I always counted it as one.

[kili]

I don't necessarily feel as if Snow and Charming were fated to be true loves.

 

I think the show confirmed that. The book did not change when Emma and Hook went into the past. The future for that time was still written there. It was only when Hook and Emma changed the meeting of Snow and Charming that the book went blank.  If fate always intended them to be True Love, the book might have been modified slightly, but it would still be pretty much the same. When they did not meet during the stage coach robbery, there was no guarantee they would ever meet.

[stealinghome]

You know, I don't remember if there was a TLK aura or not. Can anybody else say for sure? But since it broke the potion's effects, I always counted it as one.

No, there was no aura/whoosh of air. But at that time in the series, it seems like they were only using the aura/air whoosh for Big Curses breaking, because the Rumbelle TLK in 1x12 didn't have the aura/whoosh either. It was only in Season 2 that they incorporated it for all TLKs.

[KingOfHearts]

 

It was only in Season 2 that they incorporated it for all TLKs.

The only TLK I remember in S2 was the Phillip/Aurora one, which broke the sleeping curse. Am I forgetting one?

[stealinghome]

When Snow broke Charming's sleeping curse in 2x09, the aura appeared.

[KingOfHearts]

 

When Snow broke Charming's sleeping curse in 2x09, the aura appeared.

Oh, right right. Well, it's no different from the Pilot since it was still a powerful curse. 

Edited October 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

But at that time in the series, it seems like they were only using the aura/air whoosh for Big Curses breaking, because the Rumbelle TLK in 1x12 didn't have the aura/whoosh either.

Rumple aborted the kiss before the curse fully broke, which may have stopped the process before it reached the aura/air whoosh stage. Since his curse didn't break, no big special effects.

 

But you have to wonder why Belle isn't bothered by no TLK since then. You'd think that after her memory thing and getting back to herself just before he took off to Neverland, and then he's barely back before he sacrifices himself to save her from Pan and then he's back from the dead, freed from Zelena and (supposedly) putting his entire self into her hands, their wedding kiss should have been a big old curse-breaking True Love's Kiss. The fact that he's still the Dark One doesn't reflect well on the depth of their relationship. She has actual proof that he's holding back on her. And now I'm picturing her chasing him around the wedding site, whacking him with her dagger-laden purse and shouting, "Where's the whoosh? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering whoosh!"

 

Anyway, back to the Snow and Charming memory potion thing, I don't remember the details, but was the kiss the cause or the effect? What really seemed to reach her was his sacrifice. Even if the kiss did do something, it wouldn't have worked without the first part, so it's almost like the sacrifice was the part that was magical. It would be a total retcon, since Frozen didn't exist yet when that episode aired, but since Frozen has since then been established in this universe, it seems a lot like the Act of True Love from Frozen. It wasn't just a case of a quick and easy kiss, but him truly putting himself on the line not just to save her life, but to save her soul, and having faith in her that she wouldn't be able to keep going on the path she was on once she saw him injured.

[RadioGirl27]

I'd like to have a TLK with Hook and Emma before the end of the show, if for no other reason that to just go ahead and settle it. A TLK doesn't mean that the Happily Ever After is reached yet. Plus, not gonna lie, I'm impatient. Snowing had multiple TLK's before their marriage, and since Captain Swan has been paralleled with them fairly extensively, I'd say they're set up for multiple TLK's, too.

I'm not expecting it until, at least, next season (if ever), and I think it lost all it relevance when Regina was able to give a TLK without a heart. But, the shipper in me wants to see one between Hook and Emma. And, actually, it can add more angst to the relationship, because I'm sure that Emma, even if she is more open to be with Hook now, would totally freak out with a true love kiss.

Edited October 18, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

I don't think she would freak out.  If it was a year ago, I'd agree but she seems to be falling in line in the belief that these things just exist and the way she conjured her magic in 4x03 pretty much goes back to what Rumple told her when he trained her for like 5 minutes.

[Shanna Marie]

I don't think Emma would freak out if a TLK worked between her and Hook because if a magical curse-breaking kiss is necessary, she'll be counting on it working or hoping it will work. Neither of them seem to be under an ongoing curse, like Rumple, where some random goodnight kiss turns out to be a TLK that freaks them out. If a True Love's Kiss happens between them, it'll be because it's needed and possibly even life or death. You only know for sure that a kiss is a TLK when it breaks a curse. Otherwise, you'd never know if every kiss is one.

[Serena]

I actually think the show kind of did the opposite of the "destined love" trope, at least until OQ. We have examples of kisses between what we know are TL couple NOT work because the people weren't themselves/had amnesia. If it were a "destined" thing, it would work even if they had just met.