S05.E13: Sister Act

[Umbelina]

I guess for this season, Kyle hasn't been on the receiving end of a ton of negative comments, that is true. But, man, all I remember for years is constant posting about how much Kyle sucked - including from me. Brandi and Kim have managed to make Kyle look good in a way that she could never manage herself.

 

They all look awful to me.

 

I believe parts of what one says, parts of what the other one does.  I don't think any of them should escape wrath for their disgusting, childish behavior.

 

What's Oprah's saying?  "When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM."  Kyle has, many times, as you say, and I've seen nothing from her this season that makes me change my mind about her.

 

Again, as I've said before, I don't give a damn if Kyle cared or not.  Just cop to it.  Be honest about it.  Had she told her she's had enough, that it's been years of 2 AM crisis, that she's done?  Hey!  Probably the best thing she could do.  That isn't what's happening though.  'FUCK YOU!~' and double fingers and making a huge scene, and screaming is not helpful.

 

I do wonder if along with Monty (who at that time, was not in remission) impending death, along with whatever happened to Chad, threw Kim over the edge.  I do believe Brandi was frightened, and I do believe Brandi that Kyle didn't care.  Maybe that's why Kim is still upset, not only didn't Kyle call her then, perhaps not at all.  There could be so many layers to all of it that we are unaware of. 

Edited February 13, 2015 by Umbelina

[Rhetorica]

Possibly her sainthood, and how wonderful she is, and how horrible it is for her. Not much holding her accountable for anything, or criticizing her behavior.

I don't post often, but read every jot and tittle. I have seen anyone organizing a Church of Kyle. Most seem to empathize but hold her accountable. I find her, her sister, and her sister's BFF tiring.

[MatildaMoody]

 

I think that makes it worse. "Would you care to elaborate Brandi". Well that sounds like a risky challenge to engage in just to prove a point and a pretty meanspirited way to suggest Brandi is doing something wrong. Saying that she is having late night conversations with Kim is NOT outing anyone. I don't get how Brandi outlining the fact that she talks to Kim regularly and is the person Kim is able to call at any time, morning noon or night is something bad she's doing to Kim? And before the party how many times did Brandi bring up the call? Once at the wine tasting I think? and Kyle wasn't even at the table was she?

I think the real issue is that Kyle was sworn to secrecy which is why she never brought up the call in the first place. Brandi begged Kyle not to say anything about that call. And now here she is throwing it in Kyle's face in front of Kim on camera. Yes, Kyle should have disengaged and walked away, but I think she probably felt that would have made it that much worse. If she had walked away when Brandi threw the call in her face, that would have given Kim and Brandi that much more ammunition about how horrible she is as a sister and friend. 

 

While I have never been a fan of Kyle's, I think that she is just in a no win situation with Kim and Brandi. Those two have a mutually parasitic relationship. At this point, I can't even tell who is the host and who is the parasite. Kim's years of hiding her addiction has made her a master at manipulating and deflecting. Brandi seems to be a master at manipulation and disingenuous behavior. I can't tell anymore if Brandi is brainwashing Kim or if Kim is using Brandi as both her mouthpiece and enabler. But, whatever the case, Kyle is not going to win. 

 

Kim has been an addict most of her adult life and by all accounts Kyle has been there to clean up her messes. So we know that the two of them will eventually return to their status quo. But, the damage will always be there when it comes to how Kyle is perceived by the audience. Right now, Kyle is caught in that same spiral of trying to show that she is "the good sister" who always cleans up and minimizes Kim's behavior. She also most likely feels that she owes it to Kim to clean up after her because they are family. 

 

I don't particularly think that Kyle is a martyr or a saint or anything like that. I do think that she is getting a raw deal at the hands of her sister.But, I also think it was irresponsible of Kyle to convince Kim to do the show in the first place. Kyle has said that she had to convince Kim to do the show and that Kim didn't want to do it at first and Kim has backed that up. Whatever her motivations for getting Kim involved, it was just a bad decision and an irresponsible one considering all that Kim was trying to hide. 

 

Full disclosure: Until that moment in the limo in season 1, I had no idea that Kim was struggling with alcoholism (or any other kind of addiction). I thought all of her behavior stemmed from being a washed up child actress who still lived in a delusional world where she was more famous than her niece Paris. I definitely thought that she was mentally fragile and riddled with anxiety, but I had no clue that there were addiction issues involved until that moment.

 

So for me, it seems that it would have made much more sense for Kyle to showcase her fabulous friends and leave her sister out of it, or only have Kim show up as a Friend of. She never should have talked Kim into doing the show with something that huge hanging over her head. But, I guess you can also say that it was Kim's decision in the end. But, I question whether or not Kim was even mentally equipped to make that decision for herself.

[WireWrap]

 

Brandi's bullshit aside, I was enjoying the show in the beginning of the season. Lisa has her show; there's no need for her to act put upon about being in the RHOBH cast. Honestly, I think that Lisa is still upset that people called her on her ish, which is why she's not going all out the way she did before. It's only fun for Lisa when she can make digs but not have to answer to one of the women saying, "Wait. Hold up now..."

 

I think this is what Kim (and Brandi, of course) is misunderstanding. Just before that moment, Brandi was screeching about the 2 AM phone call(s) (again), to which Kyle asked, "Oh, do you want to say more about that?" It wasn't Kyle actually asking for details and information. She was trying to call to Kim's attention that Brandi was screeching about this information that was so troubling and upsetting and sensitive. Like, "Do you hear what she's saying?" I definitely caught what Kyle was doing there. Kim didn't because she's poised to blame Kyle for everything. 

IMO, Brandi misunderstood nothing. She knew exactly what Kyle was trying to show Kim and did everything she could to stop her. Brandi knows exactly what she is doing to Kim and to Kyle and is as happy as a slug sliding through the primordial ooze she lives in.

 

But Brandi only mentioned it without going into detail. I don't think mentioning it was that big a deal and Kim didn't seem to flinch either when Brandi brought it up. I don't think Brandi was trying to go there I think Brandi was just trying to prove to Kyle that yeah, Brandi is a significant friend and to prove it used the call as an example. The details of that call wasn't even relevant, at least not to me, UNTIL Kyle breathed life into by saying what she said. Either way Kyle was the one that gave life to the now infamous 2am call. A call at 2am could mean anything from having a good cry, unloading, venting etc. etc. I didn't take it to mean anything other than Kim having an emotional night, maybe crying or feeling down or whatever and up until Kyle said what she said and everyone erupted the way they did I thought Brandi's 2am call comment was pretty much a throw away detail.

Brandi KEPT mentioning it! Brandi is the one that first told us there was a 2 am phone call from Kim to begin with....WHY? She didn't need to go into detail to make Kim look off her rocker and by not giving any details she makes Kyle look bad. Had all the details been given on camera, it most likely would make both Kim and Brandi  look like fools once again.

 

I think that makes it worse. "Would you care to elaborate Brandi". Well that sounds like a risky challenge to engage in just to prove a point and a pretty meanspirited way to suggest Brandi is doing something wrong. Saying that she is having late night conversations with Kim is NOT outing anyone. I don't get how Brandi outlining the fact that she talks to Kim regularly and is the person Kim is able to call at any time, morning noon or night is something bad she's doing to Kim? And before the party how many times did Brandi bring up the call? Once at the wine tasting I think? and Kyle wasn't even at the table was she?

Because Kim is an addict and people worry about things that wouldn't have much of an impact on the average person but may be a very real trigger for an addict and felt Kyle should know the state her sister was in?

 

Plus, I bring other people on board if a close friend is feeling particularly down. Doesn't have to be life changing stuff before I share that we need to rally for a friend addict or not.  Just saying

The way Brandi keeps saying it, about the 2 am calls, does make Kim look worse, not Kyle IMO. Also, didn't we just see/hear Brandi insinuate that Kim was talking about killing herself in a 2 am call to Brandi when she was talking/throwing Kim under the bus to Lisa R? That Kim is far worse than anyone thought? That Kim is off the wagon? Brandi threw all that out on camera, Kyle was nowhere in sight, Lisa R did not bring up Kim, Brandi did but it is all Kyle's fault with Lisa R's help!  

 

Brand is BFFs with a trained professional in addiction counseling, Jennifer, so why hasn't Brandi taken Jennifer to talk to/with Kim? Why try to have Lisa R talk to Kyle? Because she is setting up both Lisa R and Kyle.

 

They all look awful to me.

 

I believe parts of what one says, parts of what the other one does.  I don't think any of them should escape wrath for their disgusting, childish behavior.

 

What's Oprah's saying?  "When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM."  Kyle has, many times, as you say, and I've seen nothing from her this season that makes me change my mind about her.

 

Again, as I've said before, I don't give a damn if Kyle cared or not.  Just cop to it.  Be honest about it.  Had she told her she's had enough, that it's been years of 2 AM crisis, that she's done?  Hey!  Probably the best thing she could do.  That isn't what's happening though.  'FUCK YOU!~' and double fingers and making a huge scene, and screaming is not helpful.

 

I do wonder if along with Monty (who at that time, was not in remission) impending death, along with whatever happened to Chad, threw Kim over the edge.  I do believe Brandi was frightened, and I do believe Brandi that Kyle didn't care.  Maybe that's why Kim is still upset, not only didn't Kyle call her then, perhaps not at all.  There could be so many layers to all of it that we are unaware of. 

If Brandi was THAT frightened, then she should have called in a professional like her friend Jennifer right there and then or dialed 911. What do you want Kyle to say, to repeat things Kim has told her off camera, explain if and why she has pulled away, that she is trying to distance herself from Kim? Because if she did, viewers would demand a detailed explanation of why she did whatever and that then would expose Kim's secrets even further....kind of what Brandi is doing to Kim.

[zoeysmom]

Kim keeps saying there is something deeper between Kyle and Brandi.  I think there are additional issues but Brandi, much like bringing up Adrienne's surrogacy instead of the fact that Adrienne was kind of blowing her off, Brandi elected to go after Kyle's Achilles' heel-Kim.  I think Brandi feels like she has earned the right to travel in Kyle's circle, attend The Agency events, hang with Kathy Hilton and most of all go on the filmed vacations with Kyle and her family.  I think Kim feels a little left out as well but probably over the years has made an ass out of herself or done her rude mean girl thing.  The other explanation is Kim just doesn't care and has no desire to wrangle invitations and take Brandi as a plus one.

 

Take Faye Resnick  (I know most feel she is repugnant) for example, she is friends first with Kathy Hilton and over the years developed a friendship with Kyle.  Same with Kris Jenner, first it was Kathy Hilton and now it is Kyle.  And these are going to Aspen over the holidays type friends, not filming a reality show and pretending to like each other friends.  I just know Brandi would give anything to get close to Kris Jenner (I am quite certain she would skip the Faye Resnick friendship) because after all she is the mother and mother in law of Kim and Kanye.  That is who Brandi wants to run with not loser Kim, whose kids aren't crazy about Brandi.  Brandi would love an intro to Paris and be running with her crowd than hang out with Kim and Monty.   In essence I think Brandi is very resentful of Kyle and her pigeon holing Brandi as RHOBH friend.  I mean even Taylor Armstrong gets hang with Kyle in fab vacation places.  I could say the same about Lisa V. and Yolanda, Brandi is okay around certain friends and family members she just hasn't quite made to the A list.   

[zoeysmom]

I think the real issue is that Kyle was sworn to secrecy which is why she never brought up the call in the first place. Brandi begged Kyle not to say anything about that call. And now here she is throwing it in Kyle's face in front of Kim on camera. Yes, Kyle should have disengaged and walked away, but I think she probably felt that would have made it that much worse. If she had walked away when Brandi threw the call in her face, that would have given Kim and Brandi that much more ammunition about how horrible she is as a sister and friend. 

 

While I have never been a fan of Kyle's, I think that she is just in a no win situation with Kim and Brandi. Those two have a mutually parasitic relationship. At this point, I can't even tell who is the host and who is the parasite. Kim's years of hiding her addiction has made her a master at manipulating and deflecting. Brandi seems to be a master at manipulation and disingenuous behavior. I can't tell anymore if Brandi is brainwashing Kim or if Kim is using Brandi as both her mouthpiece and enabler. But, whatever the case, Kyle is not going to win. 

 

Kim has been an addict most of her adult life and by all accounts Kyle has been there to clean up her messes. So we know that the two of them will eventually return to their status quo. But, the damage will always be there when it comes to how Kyle is perceived by the audience. Right now, Kyle is caught in that same spiral of trying to show that she is "the good sister" who always cleans up and minimizes Kim's behavior. She also most likely feels that she owes it to Kim to clean up after her because they are family. 

 

I don't particularly think that Kyle is a martyr or a saint or anything like that. I do think that she is getting a raw deal at the hands of her sister.But, I also think it was irresponsible of Kyle to convince Kim to do the show in the first place. Kyle has said that she had to convince Kim to do the show and that Kim didn't want to do it at first and Kim has backed that up. Whatever her motivations for getting Kim involved, it was just a bad decision and an irresponsible one considering all that Kim was trying to hide. 

 

Full disclosure: Until that moment in the limo in season 1, I had no idea that Kim was struggling with alcoholism (or any other kind of addiction). I thought all of her behavior stemmed from being a washed up child actress who still lived in a delusional world where she was more famous than her niece Paris. I definitely thought that she was mentally fragile and riddled with anxiety, but I had no clue that there were addiction issues involved until that moment.

 

So for me, it seems that it would have made much more sense for Kyle to showcase her fabulous friends and leave her sister out of it, or only have Kim show up as a Friend of. She never should have talked Kim into doing the show with something that huge hanging over her head. But, I guess you can also say that it was Kim's decision in the end. But, I question whether or not Kim was even mentally equipped to make that decision for herself.

I hate to say it but I do think Kyle thought if Kim were working in front of the cameras again she would stop drinking.  Rookie mistake but a common one for family members.  I think it also had a lot to do with Kim's child support drying up and her needing to work. Very early on-first episode Kim and Kyle are having a discussion after going to Sacramento and Kyle is pleading with her to engage with the other women and Kim claims no one would talk to her.  Kim was hammered by the time they got to the game.  Kyle mentions with her adult daughters gone, Chad away and Kimberly living with John she needs to develop friends.  All Kim can say is you have a home, a husband and children and you don't understand I don't have any of that.  So at some point Kim had to face her own personal reality and get her butt back to work.

[AnnA]

But Brandi only mentioned it without going into detail. I don't think mentioning it was that big a deal and Kim didn't seem to flinch either when Brandi brought it up. I don't think Brandi was trying to go there I think Brandi was just trying to prove to Kyle that yeah, Brandi is a significant friend and to prove it used the call as an example. The details of that call wasn't even relevant, at least not to me, UNTIL Kyle breathed life into by saying what she said. Either way Kyle was the one that gave life to the now infamous 2am call. A call at 2am could mean anything from having a good cry, unloading, venting etc. etc. I didn't take it to mean anything other than Kim having an emotional night, maybe crying or feeling down or whatever and up until Kyle said what she said and everyone erupted the way they did I thought Brandi's 2am call comment was pretty much a throw away detail.

I didn't think the 2am phone call was such a big deal either. Like you I thought Brandi was using it as an example of "she called me and not you - I was there for her - you were not." I was surprised that Kyle pursued it and at the time thought it was Kyle trying to get Brandi to break a confidence by revealing the specifics of the call.

I should probably watch the episode again. I must have missed something.

Edited February 13, 2015 by AnnA

[MatildaMoody]

I hate to say it but I do think Kyle thought if Kim were working in front of the cameras again she would stop drinking.  Rookie mistake but a common one for family members.  I think it also had a lot to do with Kim's child support drying up and her needing to work. Very early on-first episode Kim and Kyle are having a discussion after going to Sacramento and Kyle is pleading with her to engage with the other women and Kim claims no one would talk to her.  Kim was hammered by the time they got to the game.  Kyle mentions with her adult daughters gone, Chad away and Kimberly living with John she needs to develop friends.  All Kim can say is you have a home, a husband and children and you don't understand I don't have any of that.  So at some point Kim had to face her own personal reality and get her butt back to work.

I totally think that the aspect of Kim being alone and her child support drying up were motivating factors for Kyle to get her involved with the show. And I can see how that might have been a rookie mistake on her part. I just think that Kim was simply not equipped to take something like this on. Like I said, for me it's not Kyle's motivations for getting Kim on the show, it was simply irresponsible for her to go on the show with this type of secret hanging over the both of them. 

 

Maybe Kyle thought she was saving Kim yet again by giving her this opportunity. But the second they colluded to keep Kim's addiction a secret, it became an irresponsible act on both of their parts. Worse, they wanted everyone else in the cast and the producers to keep that secret as well. Who knows, maybe it never would have come out if it weren't for the limo scene and it would have always been speculation until Kim checked into rehab again. But, it's not like the whole Real Housewives thing hadn't been out for a while by the time the show came along.

 

I get that the women that agree to do these shows are narcissistic enough to think that they will never end up looking badly. So, maybe they thought they could keep it hidden, but that to me is more signs of both of the Sisters needing counseling because the very act of trying to hide this huge thing and asking others to play along shows a major issue with them and how they have dealt with Kim's addictions over the years.

[Umbelina]

Or Bravo just said, "Hey Kyle" (nobody housewife of a real estate agent, but aunt of Paris!) "Can we get Kathy on if we hire you?"  (Kathy was asked and said, yeah, no.)  "Well then Kyle, how about  your famous sister, the one who did Nanny and all those Disney movies?  We love the drama sisters bring!"

 

I've yet to see proof that Kyle "got" Kim on the show.  Kim was more famous, by far, so why wouldn't they try for Kim?  Yeah, Kyle really wanted to be on TV, and was already pitching at least one show, "Hollywood Moms" but so?  She may have talked to Bravo first, but would they even have hired her at all without Kim or Kathy? 

 

I'm just saying, it could go either way here, and I know the rumors been repeated many times, but where did it start, and is there any back up to that?  I just think there are many possible ways them being on the show together happened.  Including Kyle offering up Kim when Kathy said no.  I'd love to see the real story somewhere.

[CTO]

I was thinking of watching a couple episodes again as well, to check some points. I can't bring myself to do it. Literally can't stomach watching it. I'm barely watching it now.

 

This is not fun viewing anymore Bravo TV. Please make the pain go away - get different bev hills women.

[WireWrap]

Or Bravo just said, "Hey Kyle" (nobody housewife of a real estate agent, but aunt of Paris!) "Can we get Kathy on if we hire you?"  (Kathy was asked and said, yeah, no.)  "Well then Kyle, how about  your famous sister, the one who did Nanny and all those Disney movies?  We love the drama sisters bring!"

 

I've yet to see proof that Kyle "got" Kim on the show.  Kim was more famous, by far, so why wouldn't they try for Kim?  Yeah, Kyle really wanted to be on TV, and was already pitching at least one show, "Hollywood Moms" but so?  She may have talked to Bravo first, but would they even have hired her at all without Kim or Kathy? 

 

I'm just saying, it could go either way here, and I know the rumors been repeated many times, but where did it start, and is there any back up to that?  I just think there are many possible ways them being on the show together happened.  Including Kyle offering up Kim when Kathy said no.  I'd love to see the real story somewhere.

You are assuming the producers remember Kim, she was a child star many years ago. More people remember Kyle, LHOtP, than Kim in the age demographic Bravo is aiming for on these shows. Also, Kim was not wealthy when the BH show started and she still isn't wealthy and she was not currently acting! The only reason that Bravo would have asked Kathy is if Paris was part of that deal, no one cares about Kathy Hilton outside her 1 daughter, and I really doubt that anyone at Bravo thought they could snag Paris, especially with what they were paying the HW's that first season.

 

If Kim says that Kyle got her to do the show, why are you doubting her. That story has never changed and no one ever challenged it. I have no doubts that Brandi would have sold that story a few years ago had it been a lie.

[Persnickety1]

I hate to say it but I do think Kyle thought if Kim were working in front of the cameras again she would stop drinking.  Rookie mistake but a common one for family members.  I think it also had a lot to do with Kim's child support drying up and her needing to work. Very early on-first episode Kim and Kyle are having a discussion after going to Sacramento and Kyle is pleading with her to engage with the other women and Kim claims no one would talk to her.  Kim was hammered by the time they got to the game.  Kyle mentions with her adult daughters gone, Chad away and Kimberly living with John she needs to develop friends.  All Kim can say is you have a home, a husband and children and you don't understand I don't have any of that.  So at some point Kim had to face her own personal reality and get her butt back to work.

 

I agree.

 

I'm not a particular fan of Kyle, but I've always thought her intentions about getting Kim on the show were benign.

 

We heard Kim talk on the show about missing acting and missing her fans and doing that odd telephone interview in season 1.  We also saw her waxing nostalgic about that fan event last season.

 

I can imagine not a small part of Kim's issues includes missing her once thriving career.  

 

I think Kyle honestly (albeit perhaps too optimistically) thought Kim could reignite some positive interest in her career by doing this show.

 

I also suspect Kim might have been sober(ish) when filming first started, making it seem even more plausible that she might get a shot at some roles in things such as Lifetime movies or independent movies.

 

I think Kim's substance abuse didn't really start unfolding again until after a couple of episodes' worth of footage was in the can.

 

Or whenever she decided that hideous bowed blouse was a good choice for her talking heads.

 

I do remember a Bravo production assistant, after the limo scene finale, that there were apparently miles of footage of a fucked up Kim they chose to not use and instead left behind on the editing room floor, so I'm assuming that means the abuse issues ramped up exponentially as filming progressed.

 

Again, I agree with you and I don't think Kyle encouraged Kim to come onto the show for nefarious reasons.  I honestly think she thought at that point in time that it would be a good vehicle her to (a) earn some money (b) reconnect with her fans and ( c) perhaps a means to an end to nail down some other roles.  

Edited February 14, 2015 by Persnickety1

[quinn]

Kim is deflecting in her blog but I would be surprised if when Kyle and Brandi are going at each other that they are not also discussing the verkakte that is going on with Brandi, Jonathan Ruiz and his live-in girlfriend since Brandi tagged Mauricio's business when she tweeted about her messy romantic life last summer / fall.

ETA:

During the summer and fall Brandi tweeted that the stuff going on with her, Jonathan and his live-in girlfriend was filmedl, and of course she will come out smelling like a rose when it aired, then when the trailer came out Brandi expressed surprise that the storyline was not featured in the trailer, so presumably stuff was filmed but left on the cutting room floor.

Edited February 14, 2015 by quinn

[zoeysmom]

Or Bravo just said, "Hey Kyle" (nobody housewife of a real estate agent, but aunt of Paris!) "Can we get Kathy on if we hire you?"  (Kathy was asked and said, yeah, no.)  "Well then Kyle, how about  your famous sister, the one who did Nanny and all those Disney movies?  We love the drama sisters bring!"

 

I've yet to see proof that Kyle "got" Kim on the show.  Kim was more famous, by far, so why wouldn't they try for Kim?  Yeah, Kyle really wanted to be on TV, and was already pitching at least one show, "Hollywood Moms" but so?  She may have talked to Bravo first, but would they even have hired her at all without Kim or Kathy? 

 

I'm just saying, it could go either way here, and I know the rumors been repeated many times, but where did it start, and is there any back up to that?  I just think there are many possible ways them being on the show together happened.  Including Kyle offering up Kim when Kathy said no.  I'd love to see the real story somewhere.

Here is how it happened, Kyle was doing interviews for E!'s True Hollywood Story, Paris Hilton.  The producer Doug Ross approached Kyle about doing the show.  Your opinion she was a nobody is obviously false as she did attract the attention of Ross who has produced RHOC from the onset.  Lisa VP was brought on by Kyle, Lisa brought on Adrienne and Adrienne brought on Taylor, Kyle convinced her sister and finally persuaded Camille.  There was never a mention of Kathy as Kathy and Paris had another show in the works and it ran and was not renewed.  So for the first year there was no Kathy.  Paris made her debut Season 3.

 

You do realize Kim pretty much has Swiss cheese for brains and at the time this show was being put together Kim was drinking. Kim had no friends to bring on or the ability to show up for work.  Kyle continued to work in acting Kim not so much.

 

Where I saw the explanation was on Kelly Ripa's show and it was Kyle telling the tale and more importantly Andy has never disputed her account nor has anyone else.

Edited February 14, 2015 by zoeysmom

[becauseIsaidso]

I do not think Kim Richards is an arrogant, narcissistic, mean girl because she is an addict. I believe she is an arrogant, narcissistic, mean girl who happens to also be an addict. I do not think Kyle Richards is an arrogant, narcissistic, mean girl because she has an addict for a sister. I believe she is an arrogant, narcissistic, mean girl who happens to have an addict for a sister.

 

Having spent a number of years working in the substance abuse industry and observing the behaviors, actions, and reactions of many clients and counselors, I have come to fall on the side of not having much belief in the 'disease' paradigm - the more often a client referred to 'my disease' the sooner they would blow off rehab. By contrast, those who were able to accept personal responsibility for whether or not they continued to abuse their drug of choice were by far the more likely to complete rehab and stay cleaner longer than the 'blamers'. That's not to say they were impervious to relapse, but rather that they took the time to develop the tools that worked for them to regain their sobriety after each slip, and those slips would be come further and further apart. I do not see any tools or coping skills in either Kim or Kyle, no do I see any desire on either of their parts to change the current situation. They seem to both revel in their chosen roles of victim/addict and victim/martyr.

 

IMNSHO, Kim simply does not want to stop - in direct opposition to the statement in the first of the oft quoted 12 steps - she seems to regard her 'disease' as something that gives her power over others rather than as something that makes her powerless - and she fully intends to use that power to the full advantage.

[quinn]

From the promos I recall, Kelsey Grammer's wife Camille was the big get for the show, Kim and Kyle were packaged as Paris Hilton's aunts. Adrienne got mentioned as well as "one of the Maloofs."

[Umbelina]

I read that Kathy was asked and said no because of her show deal with Paris.

 

Thanks for letting me know when Kyle said it.  When did Kim? 

 

Great post becauseIsaidso, ITA.  Those two sisters together are a disaster.  I wish Kathy would comment on this show, or this relationship, it would be interesting to hear what she said, even though, apparently she's as messed up as they are.

 

Kim and Brandi spent either Thanksgiving or Christmas with Kathy I think.  That must have been trippy!

Edited February 14, 2015 by Umbelina

[MatildaMoody]

Or Bravo just said, "Hey Kyle" (nobody housewife of a real estate agent, but aunt of Paris!) "Can we get Kathy on if we hire you?"  (Kathy was asked and said, yeah, no.)  "Well then Kyle, how about  your famous sister, the one who did Nanny and all those Disney movies?  We love the drama sisters bring!"

 

I've yet to see proof that Kyle "got" Kim on the show.  Kim was more famous, by far, so why wouldn't they try for Kim?  Yeah, Kyle really wanted to be on TV, and was already pitching at least one show, "Hollywood Moms" but so?  She may have talked to Bravo first, but would they even have hired her at all without Kim or Kathy? 

 

I'm just saying, it could go either way here, and I know the rumors been repeated many times, but where did it start, and is there any back up to that?  I just think there are many possible ways them being on the show together happened.  Including Kyle offering up Kim when Kathy said no.  I'd love to see the real story somewhere.

I will have to see if I can find the links. But, Kyle specifically said that she convinced Kim to do the show and that Kim did not want to. Kyle was the catalyst for most if not all of the originals who joined the show. Who knows if Kyle convinced Kim based on Bravo wanting a bigger name - I still find that funny because at that stage in their careers, neither of them were actually names. Kim had been a has been for 2 decades, so I doubt Bravo was looking to cash in on her fame. I'm sure Bravp was hoping for Kathy or Paris though - so I agree with you there that Kim most likely wasn't a first choice. And I would also love to see the full true story of that.

 

It's interesting that you say Kyle was shopping around a show about BH Moms. Real Housewives of New York started out as a show about Manhattan Moms. So, Bravo probably saw a real opportunity if they were one of the companies Kyle approached about BH Moms. 

 

I read a lot of recaps of this show. Aside from Alex's recaps my other two favorites are Vulture and TrashTalkTV. I say this because TrashTalkTV does a weekly podcast about all the stuff on Bravo, and one of the podcasters (the one that recaps this show) talked about meeting Gretchen and Slade and a few other HW regulars along with the original producer of OC at a party. The producer told him that originally, the Housewives show was supposed to be a comedy. It was supposed to be lighthearted fun about how the other half lives and how the women weren't even really aware that they were hilarious because of how serious they were about things the rest of us would just roll our eyes at.

 

But, the moment they captured that first dramatic confrontation between the women, the producers kept trying to replicate that and that is why we have the shows we have now. It became less about poking fun and more about the confrontations.

 

All of that is to say that the show that had the most promise of returning to those lighthearted roots while still including some soap opera flavor and amazing glimpses of wealth has gone into some of the darkest places of any franchise. In just 5 seasons we have covered:

• The outing of an alcoholic
• Domestic abuse claims 
• A suicide
• The outing of a surrogacy
• A nasty divorce that also included claims of domestic abuse
• The relapse of an alcoholic/addict

These are things that are far from funny or entertaining. But, these are the things that Bravo assumes we want to see and so they keep the dark stuff front and center while only giving us tiny bits of the fun and funny parts.

[zoeysmom]

I read that Kathy was asked and said no because of her show deal with Paris.

 

Thanks for letting me know when Kyle said it.  When did Kim? 

 

Great post becauseIsaidso, ITA.  Those two sisters together are a disaster.  I wish Kathy would comment on this show, or this relationship, it would be interesting to hear what she said, even though, apparently she's a messed up as they are.

 

Kim and Brandi spent either Thanksgiving or Christmas with Kathy I think.  That must have been trippy!

Brandi went to the Hilton's holiday party with Kim in December.  She did not spend Christmas or Thanksgiving with them.  Here is a little story about Brandi trying to drag Kathy in  http://www.inquisitr.com/1839522/brandi-ganville-brings-kathy-hilton-into-kyle-richards-and-kim-richards-drama/ .  I doubt either Kim or Kyle would expect Kathy to comment on Brandi.

 

Just a little note-often times reality stars are precluded from working on competing genre shows.  So  a RH could go on Dancing with the Stars or Celebrity Apprentice but may not be able to do another candid reality show on a competing network.  Brandi claims she has been offered a reality show where she helps scorned wives.  Depending on the network she may not be able to do both RHOBH and her new show.  Kathy and Paris had a candid reality show and they were not shown on RHOBH.    I guess cross overs only work if there is mutual money changing hands.

[Umbelina]

If you go to Monty's instagram, apparently he was given a few weeks/months to live back then, but now is in remission.  Since it's spread to at least his brain and bones though, unless they find some more miracle drug combos for him, he will probably still die.  He's staying very positive and hopeful.  I always think of Walter White's remission when I think of Monty. 

[zoeysmom]

I will have to see if I can find the links. But, Kyle specifically said that she convinced Kim to do the show and that Kim did not want to. Kyle was the catalyst for most if not all of the originals who joined the show. Who knows if Kyle convinced Kim based on Bravo wanting a bigger name - I still find that funny because at that stage in their careers, neither of them were actually names. Kim had been a has been for 2 decades, so I doubt Bravo was looking to cash in on her fame. I'm sure Bravp was hoping for Kathy or Paris though - so I agree with you there that Kim most likely wasn't a first choice. And I would also love to see the full true story of that.

 

It's interesting that you say Kyle was shopping around a show about BH Moms. Real Housewives of New York started out as a show about Manhattan Moms. So, Bravo probably saw a real opportunity if they were one of the companies Kyle approached about BH Moms. 

 

I read a lot of recaps of this show. Aside from Alex's recaps my other two favorites are Vulture and TrashTalkTV. I say this because TrashTalkTV does a weekly podcast about all the stuff on Bravo, and one of the podcasters (the one that recaps this show) talked about meeting Gretchen and Slade and a few other HW regulars along with the original producer of OC at a party. The producer told him that originally, the Housewives show was supposed to be a comedy. It was supposed to be lighthearted fun about how the other half lives and how the women weren't even really aware that they were hilarious because of how serious they were about things the rest of us would just roll our eyes at.

 

But, the moment they captured that first dramatic confrontation between the women, the producers kept trying to replicate that and that is why we have the shows we have now. It became less about poking fun and more about the confrontations.

 

All of that is to say that the show that had the most promise of returning to those lighthearted roots while still including some soap opera flavor and amazing glimpses of wealth has gone into some of the darkest places of any franchise. In just 5 seasons we have covered:

• The outing of an alcoholic
• Domestic abuse claims 
• A suicide
• The outing of a surrogacy
• A nasty divorce that also included claims of domestic abuse
• The relapse of an alcoholic/addict

These are things that are far from funny or entertaining. But, these are the things that Bravo assumes we want to see and so they keep the dark stuff front and center while only giving us tiny bits of the fun and funny parts.

It is too bad Ronnie from "Trash Talk" stays so focused on Kyle's back fat.  I still hear "Twitch" Richards every time I see Kim.   They had quite a run with interviews when they were TVgasm.  Two of his better interviews were Jill Zarin and Lea Black.  Bothe were a wealth of production information.  Lea and Jill were also the pivotal ladies in their franchises.  I doubt Kyle would ever agree though because he totally trashes her every chance he gets.  It had gotten to the point if there are more than two back fat references I stop reading.   The other site that can be a wealth of information, especially legal documents is "Stoopid Housewives" but they insist on such juvenile names like Hagface Kyle and Drunk Otis and names that are just stupid and make reading difficult.

 

Really until BH there were no really well known women.  A few that had married professional athletes but most weren't terribly famous.  That all changed with BH.  OC and Atlanta have started adding actresses but for the most part NY, NJ are still relative unknowns.  My guess is after Eileen Davidson reception there might be a few soap actresses that jump ship. When these franchises first start up there usually isn't a lot of money offered that in and of itself probably keeps recognized names at bay, that and contracts that pretty much say they can edit you any way they please.

[Umbelina]

If Kim is telling the truth, that it involved a 3rd party, and Kyle KNEW who it was and what it was? 

 

That's the Vyle Kyle we've known for 5 seasons, especially if it was her son.

[zoeysmom]

http://tamaratattles.com/2015/02/13/brandi-glanville-says-nothing-is-here-fault/#more-14337

 

Some fun spots especially about composer vs. composure.

[zoeysmom]

Here is her take on Kim:  She does use a bad word  http://tamaratattles.com/2015/02/13/kim-richards-says-nothing-is-her-fault/

[EVS]

Sorry if this has been mentioned already. I read the whole thread but there are so many posts, it's hard to remember everything discussed.

Anyway, someone a few posts up mentioned JR. that got me thinking. I wonder if he is part of the reason Brandi started going after Kyle this season? I don't know their relationship status at that time, but if they were broken up or more 'off' than 'on', maybe Brandi at least partially blamed Kyle and Mauricio. I would think that if things were going well, then she wouldn't be attacking JR's boss's wife. I know Kyle and Brandi had other issues already, but I wonder if JR was the catalyst for what we are now seeing on the show and Kim is just a way to get to/ hurt Kyle as revenge.

Just a theory. I could be totally wrong. Wouldn't be the first time!

[Umbelina]

Tamara is a funny poster from Survivor Sucks, I'm glad her blog is doing well.

 

Damn, what if her kid threatened her in some way?  If Kim was screaming "No don't call the cops!" so Brandi called Kyle, since Mauricio is a guy and could presumably cope better with an angry male?

 

I wonder if we will find out what it was all about?

[MatildaMoody]

It is too bad Ronnie from "Trash Talk" stays so focused on Kyle's back fat.  I still hear "Twitch" Richards every time I see Kim.   They had quite a run with interviews when they were TVgasm.  Two of his better interviews were Jill Zarin and Lea Black.  Bothe were a wealth of production information.  Lea and Jill were also the pivotal ladies in their franchises.  I doubt Kyle would ever agree though because he totally trashes her every chance he gets.  It had gotten to the point if there are more than two back fat references I stop reading.   The other site that can be a wealth of information, especially legal documents is "Stoopid Housewives" but they insist on such juvenile names like Hagface Kyle and Drunk Otis and names that are just stupid and make reading difficult.

 

Really until BH there were no really well known women.  A few that had married professional athletes but most weren't terribly famous.  That all changed with BH.  OC and Atlanta have started adding actresses but for the most part NY, NJ are still relative unknowns.  My guess is after Eileen Davidson reception there might be a few soap actresses that jump ship. When these franchises first start up there usually isn't a lot of money offered that in and of itself probably keeps recognized names at bay, that and contracts that pretty much say they can edit you any way they please.

 

One thing that I learned from the podcasts was about Ronnie's obsession with Kyle's back fat is that he doesn't think that she is fat, at all. He thinks she is tiny but is dressing like a woman who is even smaller and it drives him crazy. So, he keeps pointing out the back fat because her bras don't fit. He has said many times on the podcasts that he hates the way Kyle dresses herself as though she were a smaller size than she is, when she is already tiny. 

 

I didn't like the Jill Zarin podcast because I thought all of the guys were so starstruck that they just took everything she said at face value with no backup questions. It felt like they were fawning over her because she was Jill Zarin. The Lea Black podcast was funny and confusing because I have never watched Miami and didn't have a reference for most of the things they discussed. 

 

I can't read Stoopid Housewives. The nicknames for the various members of the HW casts are so obscure that it becomes really grating just trying to read a single paragraph. The woman that runs Stoopid Housewives was actually on one of their podcasts and I found her to be so boring. She was completely out of her element and drug the tone of the show down.

 

You are totally right about "Names" joining these shows. I didn't think the Richards were that big of a "get" and was surprised when they were placed at a higher level than Camille. The only reason I was surprised was because I was shocked that Kelsey would actually appear on the show. Kelsey was an actual name, so I thought of Camille as being higher up in the food chain simply because of who she was married to. 

 

I always thought that Camille's biggest mistake was that she didn't play a likable villain to the fans. As a villain she was perfect. She had the name courtesy of her husband. She also had the advantage of using the anchor's husband as a Realtor, so she could actually manipulate things in a way that hadn't been seen on a reality show before. Talk about rookie mistakes! She played it all wrong. Too bad Lisa V wasn't giving lessons at the time, the two of them could have been unstoppable in a totally Dynasty way. 

 

ETA: I have to say that I will always have a fondness for Camille. She could have been the perfect villain on a reality show. She could have been the woman that I hated while loving in that "root for the villain" way. She could have been like the Madeline Stowe character on Revenge. But, my fondness for her is solely because she trademarked the phrase "The Morally Corrupt Faye Resnick". For that reason alone, she stands highest in my love of all things Housewives.

 

There is a part of me that always believed that Camille was the first real attempt to bring that Dynasty feel to the Real Housewives but none of the producers were prepared for the hatred she would receive.

Edited February 14, 2015 by MatildaMoody

[WireWrap]

If Kim is telling the truth, that it involved a 3rd party, and Kyle KNEW who it was and what it was? 

 

That's the Vyle Kyle we've known for 5 seasons, especially if it was her son.

How was Kyle being "vile", she did NOT bring up the 2am phone call, that was Brandi, repeatedly! How many times is Kyle going to get blamed for words that came out of Brandi's mouth?  The only time Kyle ever brought it up was at her mixer and even then, Brandi had already brought it up 1 or 2 times that night before Kyle responded. Place the blame of the 2 am call fiasco where it lies, with Brandi, we would have never even known about any 2 am call had it not been for Brandi beating Kyle over the head with it every time we turn around!

 

And if that or any of the after midnight calls Brandi claims Kim made to HER were about Chad, then shame on Brandi for using those calls to break Kyle. That shows a level of evil that has been unseen on any HW show to date. Brandi is making Tamra, Nene, Kenya, Teresa Giudice, Jill Z and Kelly B look like amatures IMO.

 

Also, Kim is acknowledging that she talked to Kyle about whatever it was that upset her and she is not supporting Brandi's claim that Kyle was not there for her off camera.

Edited February 14, 2015 by WireWrap

[AnnA]

I do not think Kim Richards is an arrogant, narcissistic, mean girl because she is an addict. I believe she is an arrogant, narcissistic, mean girl who happens to also be an addict. I do not think Kyle Richards is an arrogant, narcissistic, mean girl because she has an addict for a sister. I believe she is an arrogant, narcissistic, mean girl who happens to have an addict for a sister.

 

 

Amen!

[Satchels of gold]

I think Kim is the one with Lyme brain because she clearly does not understand the written or spoken word. First of all she states that she has been and is sober. Kim you took a drug not prescribed for you, that is using and is the opposite of sober. Kim says Monty gave it to her, Monty has made a statement that he didn't. Brandi stated "whether Kim wants to admit it or not she had a slip". When Kyle was asked by Lisa R what was up with Kim, although Kyle knew , she simply stated that She didn't know but Kim was upset. During the Brandi /Lisa r discussion Brandi elaborated that Kim is not sober and that Lisa didn't know the half of it. As far as the 2 am phone call Brandi stated she was worried for Kims well being and called Kyle. If Kim was upset about a third party why would it register as an emergency for Brandi to the point she needed to call Kyle in the middle of the night? None of her blog makes any sense and she is frankly full of shit. Good Lord that women is exhausting.

[Persnickety1]

 

I was directly involved in a very tough situation that did put me in harm’s way, and that’s why I was distraught when I called Brandi about it.

 

Maybe it was her fucking dealer looking for payment.

 

If benzo-loving and alcohol-loving Brandi is her BFF, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that her "dealer" could be someone very dear to her.

 

Obviously, I'm being snarky up there and engaging in wild speculation, but who the fuck knows what really transpired during that phone call?

 

There are only 3 people that know the reason for and response to that call, and they're not talking (except for intentional innuendo on the part of Brandi that would lead the audience to believe Kim was suicidal or overdosing or some other dire situation involving Kim).  

 

That vault has been shut tight and buried in the catacombs.  We'll never know and it's all just speculation on our part about what it could have involved.  

Edited February 14, 2015 by Persnickety1

[AnnA]

There are only 3 people that know the reason for and response to that call, and they're not talking (except for intentional innuendo on the part of Brandi that would lead the audience to believe Kim was suicidal or overdosing or some other dire situation involving Kim).  

 

That vault has been shut tight and buried in the catacombs.  We'll never know and it's all just speculation on our part about what it could have involved.  

 

It's also possible that the 2am phone call never really happened and was something the producers thought would add to the drama.  

 

We have to remember that these women aren't really friends.  They signed contracts with Bravo to work together on a TV reality show that is less than real.   The season's direction and tone are set by TPTB and the more drama a housewife brings to the table, the bigger her bonus is at the end of the season.  

Edited February 14, 2015 by AnnA

[zoeysmom]

One thing that I learned from the podcasts was about Ronnie's obsession with Kyle's back fat is that he doesn't think that she is fat, at all. He thinks she is tiny but is dressing like a woman who is even smaller and it drives him crazy. So, he keeps pointing out the back fat because her bras don't fit. He has said many times on the podcasts that he hates the way Kyle dresses herself as though she were a smaller size than she is, when she is already tiny. 

 

I didn't like the Jill Zarin podcast because I thought all of the guys were so starstruck that they just took everything she said at face value with no backup questions. It felt like they were fawning over her because she was Jill Zarin. The Lea Black podcast was funny and confusing because I have never watched Miami and didn't have a reference for most of the things they discussed. 

 

I can't read Stoopid Housewives. The nicknames for the various members of the HW casts are so obscure that it becomes really grating just trying to read a single paragraph. The woman that runs Stoopid Housewives was actually on one of their podcasts and I found her to be so boring. She was completely out of her element and drug the tone of the show down.

 

You are totally right about "Names" joining these shows. I didn't think the Richards were that big of a "get" and was surprised when they were placed at a higher level than Camille. The only reason I was surprised was because I was shocked that Kelsey would actually appear on the show. Kelsey was an actual name, so I thought of Camille as being higher up in the food chain simply because of who she was married to. 

 

I always thought that Camille's biggest mistake was that she didn't play a likable villain to the fans. As a villain she was perfect. She had the name courtesy of her husband. She also had the advantage of using the anchor's husband as a Realtor, so she could actually manipulate things in a way that hadn't been seen on a reality show before. Talk about rookie mistakes! She played it all wrong. Too bad Lisa V wasn't giving lessons at the time, the two of them could have been unstoppable in a totally Dynasty way. 

 

ETA: I have to say that I will always have a fondness for Camille. She could have been the perfect villain on a reality show. She could have been the woman that I hated while loving in that "root for the villain" way. She could have been like the Madeline Stowe character on Revenge. But, my fondness for her is solely because she trademarked the phrase "The Morally Corrupt Faye Resnick". For that reason alone, she stands highest in my love of all things Housewives.

 

There is a part of me that always believed that Camille was the first real attempt to bring that Dynasty feel to the Real Housewives but none of the producers were prepared for the hatred she would receive.

Thanks Matilda I will give B Side Blog another shot.  I get Kyle has back fat and she is tiny.  When Ronnie took stills of her on the yacht (no tight fitting clothes there) that is when I said enough I can't do the back fat anymore.  She is 45 has birthed 4 babies, is 5'1 and looks pretty darn good in a bikini.  I did post a link to the last Trash Talk Tv blog and mentioned there were some very funny moments.

 

I think Camille was the "get" but she didn't know anyone except Kyle.  Also according to Andy she quit three times during filming-so she is not really easy to deal with for a producer.  I think if Brandi exits, because she has taken lying to a whole new level, there will be room for some of the former Rh to return and enjoy.  I think Allison duBois was Camille's downfall and her initial over the top consumerism. 

[motorcitymom65]

Or Bravo just said, "Hey Kyle" (nobody housewife of a real estate agent, but aunt of Paris!) "Can we get Kathy on if we hire you?"  (Kathy was asked and said, yeah, no.)  "Well then Kyle, how about  your famous sister, the one who did Nanny and all those Disney movies?  We love the drama sisters bring!"

 

I've yet to see proof that Kyle "got" Kim on the show.  Kim was more famous, by far, so why wouldn't they try for Kim?  Yeah, Kyle really wanted to be on TV, and was already pitching at least one show, "Hollywood Moms" but so?  She may have talked to Bravo first, but would they even have hired her at all without Kim or Kathy? 

 

I'm just saying, it could go either way here, and I know the rumors been repeated many times, but where did it start, and is there any back up to that?  I just think there are many possible ways them being on the show together happened.  Including Kyle offering up Kim when Kathy said no.  I'd love to see the real story somewhere.

Why does it really matter how it happened? As far as these types of shows go, both Kim and Kyle had an actual pedigree of some type. They might not have been well known to everyone, but they were known to someone. It is a fact that Kyle brought on Lisa V, so she had more pull than Lisa did. It is a fact that Camille would not have been on the show without Kyle. Kyle might have just been just a girl married to a real estate agent, but she knew people that Bravo wanted on the show. She did have access to people Bravo was interested in. Even if they just wanted her for the connection to Kim or The Hiltons, how is that a slam or a slight against her? Should she feel bad or ashamed of that? Is that part of this apparently long list of things that makes her "less than"? It just seems like we are really reaching here to find reasons to make her an unlikable person.

[Umbelina]

I was responding to several posts about how Kyle got Kim her job on Bravo, and asked how did we know that, speculated on other ways,  just as probable, it could have happened.  Later a poster told me Kyle said it on WWHL and Andy didn't contradict her. 

[njbchlover]

Maybe it was her fucking dealer looking for payment.

 

If benzo-loving and alcohol-loving Brandi is her BFF, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that her "dealer" could be someone very dear to her.

 

Obviously, I'm being snarky up there and engaging in wild speculation, but who the fuck knows what really transpired during that phone call?

 

There are only 3 people that know the reason for and response to that call, and they're not talking (except for intentional innuendo on the part of Brandi that would lead the audience to believe Kim was suicidal or overdosing or some other dire situation involving Kim).  

 

That vault has been shut tight and buried in the catacombs.  We'll never know and it's all just speculation on our part about what it could have involved.  

 

I think that either Kim got stuck in the crawl-space attic opening looking for her stash again (like she was when Brandi came to visit), or else, all of her clothes were in the dryer and and she ran out of Cheetos.....and all the stores near her were closed....

Edited February 14, 2015 by njbchlover

[Umbelina]

Yeah, that would make Brandi call Kyle at 2AM.  I bet it had something to do with her son.  (and drugs, at least on her part, heck, the stiffed dealer wouldn't surprise me either.) 

[Persnickety1]

I think that either Kim got stuck in the crawl-space attic opening looking for her stash again (like she was when Brandi came to visit), or else, all of her clothes were in the dryer and and she ran out of Cheetos.....and all the stores near her were closed....

 

I love you for this.  

[WireWrap]

Yeah, that would make Brandi call Kyle at 2AM.  I bet it had something to do with her son.  (and drugs, at least on her part, heck, the stiffed dealer wouldn't surprise me either.) 

And thanks to Brandi, that stupid phone call is running the show right now! Whatever was said to Brandi and Kyle by Kim is not going to be shared on the show unless Brandi blabs because I don't see either sister giving it up and the only cast member harping on that dam call is Brandi! LOL

[Watermelon]

Yeah, that would make Brandi call Kyle at 2AM.  I bet it had something to do with her son.  (and drugs, at least on her part, heck, the stiffed dealer wouldn't surprise me either.) 

Even if it did, if Kim didn't call Kyle why is Kyle expected to drop everything and run to her at 2am?

 

Kyle isn't even equipped to handle someone with mental issues(if indeed that is the problem). She can't even deal with "sober" kim.

[Umbelina]

Who knows?  Maybe she was on the phone with Brandi when it happened and all hell broke loose and he pinned screaming Kim to the floor away from the phone?  Let's hope someone spills, because the possibilities are endless.  My money is on Kyle to spill.

[WireWrap]

Who knows?  Maybe she was on the phone with Brandi when it happened and all hell broke loose and he pinned screaming Kim to the floor away from the phone?  Let's hope someone spills, because the possibilities are endless.  My money is on Kyle to spill.

I don't see Kyle telling, she has everything she values, family, to loose here while Brandi has nothing of value to lose. This is Brandi's MO, except that she has learned from what happened with Adrienne to not cross that line and spill it on camera. She will spill it all on the reunion OR to a tabloid after the reunion, especially if she is not asked back and even then, it may not be the whole truth.

Edited February 14, 2015 by WireWrap

[zoeysmom]

Even if it did, if Kim didn't call Kyle why is Kyle expected to drop everything and run to her at 2am?

 

Kyle isn't even equipped to handle someone with mental issues(if indeed that is the problem). She can't even deal with "sober" kim.

I am wondering has there ever been a clear agreed statement that Brandi called Kyle in the middle of the night to relay her concerns or if it was done during more reasonable hours. From what Kyle has written and she is usually fairly honest, is Brandi told her of her concerns about Kim and then swore her to secrecy.  We also have no time reference when these calls were made.  This came to a head at Eileen's in late August, was Kim upset in May, June, July or August?

 

It just seems every damn season Brandi hatches a plan to keep herself in the thick of it.  This year she had her sights set on Lisa but Lisa wouldn't play, then she moved on to Eileen but Eileen had her number, out of the blue she takes aim for Kyle, and now Lisa Rinna..  I don't think Adrienne should have been so quick to forgive her and I hope Taylor never does.  This is just becoming too predictable with four or so episodes left Brandi is at odds with most of the cast.  It is no longer safe to just to stay out of her way. . .ask Kyle.

 

With the Reunion shooting in all likelihood by the end of the month we have Brandi who according to her mom says something and is over it and Kim who goes into her, "how about how much I was hurt mode" and there is zero opportunity to resolve anything.  Like last year there will be two people who have to continually defend their actions.  Kyle seems to have the support of the pack so if I were Brandi or Kim I would step lightly. At some point we should be able to finally hear why Brandi dislikes Kyle so.

Who knows?  Maybe she was on the phone with Brandi when it happened and all hell broke loose and he pinned screaming Kim to the floor away from the phone?  Let's hope someone spills, because the possibilities are endless.  My money is on Kyle to spill.

So one would call 911 not the victim's sister who lives 45 minutes away.  Sometimes it is best to just run with the facts as they are given.  None of the principles have said it was even a third party in Kim's household.  For all we know it could have been Kay Rosario pressuring Kim over the dog bite.  Harm may have a totally different meaning to a brain made of Swiss cheese. 

[rho]

The producer told him that originally, the Housewives show was supposed to be a comedy. It was supposed to be lighthearted fun about how the other half lives and how the women weren't even really aware that they were hilarious because of how serious they were about things the rest of us would just roll our eyes at.

 

But, the moment they captured that first dramatic confrontation between the women, the producers kept trying to replicate that and that is why we have the shows we have now. It became less about poking fun and more about the confrontations.

 

All of that is to say that the show that had the most promise of returning to those lighthearted roots while still including some soap opera flavor and amazing glimpses of wealth has gone into some of the darkest places of any franchise. In just 5 seasons we have covered:

• The outing of an alcoholic
• Domestic abuse claims 
• A suicide
• The outing of a surrogacy
• A nasty divorce that also included claims of domestic abuse
• The relapse of an alcoholic/addict

These are things that are far from funny or entertaining. But, these are the things that Bravo assumes we want to see and so they keep the dark stuff front and center while only giving us tiny bits of the fun and funny parts.

 

I know I've harped on and on about this but I really wish they would go back to the original premise. Yes, the women deal with nasty divorces, bankruptcy, family issues, etc but if you're going to reduce the show to middle class problems, at least give us the heightened reality luxe version. I know this is horrible to say but one of my favourite moments was when Taylor was totally overwhelmed by everything and crying about how her daughter is never going to ride her private plane again. Yes, it was a dire situation, but her priorities were comical. I think Yolanda was actually perfect for those moments (she can only afford one horse for her daughter) but it's sad that most of that ends up getting cut out in favour of these truly horrifying realities. It's just not a fun guilty pleasure anymore.

Edited February 14, 2015 by rho

[BluishGreen]

From their comments, it seems Max's interest is out of the blue to them. Apparently, he has not said anything before now about having any interest in knowing anything about his birth family, so I understand they are unprepared. We are so used to hearing about adoptees who want nothing more than to know everything about their birth families that we expect everyone does. But it isn't necessarily so, and I think Lisa and her family may have felt they would never have to face this since he apparently never said anything earlier. Some really have no interest (or have decided for their own reasons not to pursue it) and some are determined from the time they are adopted to at least learn as much as possible, while there are others who go throughout their lives ambivalent about what they want to know and how far they want to pursue the issues.

 

I'm not sure this is accurate.  Lisa V said Max had asked questions over the years and she answered his questions, giving as little information as she could while still responding to the question.  So, questions from Max did not really come out of the blue.  Again, it bears repeating that, in this "Max's Journey" story Lisa V is presenting, Max never said he wanted to find his birth parents or said he was interested in them.  He was asking questions specifically about himself-- he said what he wanted to know about his own ethnic heritage-- and, ultimately, that was all he got.  As it happens,  I have two in laws who were adopted, and relatives and friends who adopted children, and while the adoptees, adults and children both, may have more knowledge or less knowledge about their birth parents, the one thing they ALL know is their ethnic background-- I truly don't understand why Max's question was so very frightening to Lisa.

 

So, here are the possible explanations people have given: 

 

"Once Max gets info regarding his ethnic origins, he might want to find his birth parents." Even though he never said that, what if it does turn out to be true?   I have adoptive parents in my family who actively helped their adopted child gather information regarding her birth parents because their daughter, who was just a year younger than Max,  wanted and needed that information. I have a friend who has traveled with her adopted daughter child to China (with other parents who adopted from China) to visit the orphanage where her Chinese daughter was born. Not only does her chinese daughter know her birth name, her adoptive parents made it her middle name so she wouldn't lose that part of her identity. Lisa's reaction of fear and avoidance is not the only possible reaction in this situation, and certainly not the best one, IMO.

 

"If Max ever finds his birth parents, they might try to get their hands on the VP/T money."  How? How could they do that?  Again, Max is an adult, but I don't know that he has any money;  it doesn't seem as though he does. And if he did have his own money, wouldn't it be his to use? I think the notion that Max's birth parents are likely to be some sort of grifters or lowlifes who would manipulate Max to get money is uncharitable, to say the least.

 

"If Max ever goes looking for his birth parents, he might not be happy with what he finds, or they might not want to be found by him."  I get that this is a concern, but again, Max is an adult, and this ignores the very real possibility that something meaningful and positive could come of it for Max.

 

"If Max finds his birth parents, he might want them to be included in the VP/T clan, or the adoptive parents themselves might expect to be included."  I could see how there might be some people Lisa might not enjoy or want as friends, but this still seems very wrong to me.    It also seems quite small and snobby.  I would think you could find it in your heart to have some good will and gratitude to the parents who gave you the gift of your son, even if they are not as Klassy as Lisa and Ken.  It costs you nothing to be gracious.

 

"Max may develop a relationship with his birth parent or parents, and they will take him away."  Again, just a reminder, Max is 22.  He is a legal adult.  The adoption can't be disturbed in any way at this point. So, if it isn't that Lisa fears the birth parents can actually take him away, then her fear is that he might develop some feelings for his birth parents, or they for him.  So. having more people in the world who are fond of Max,   or him finding family who he is fond of,  is hurtful to Lisa? How? 

 

I'm quoting my relative who is an adoptive mother-- and who did not shake in fear at the idea that he daughter might find a relationship with her birth mother: "We all know parents can love more than one child.  Well, children can love more than one parent, too." Once your children grow, they develop friendships, romances, all sorts of deep relationships with people outside the immediate family.  Just as Lisa has always been the most possessive friend I have seen, she is also possessive of her family as well.  Hence, the need to accompany her daughter to college. I think this is a poor reason to steer Max away from his birth parents.

 

Final thought:  If Pandora knew nothing of the "Max's journey" story until she saw her mother at the wine store, was it really such a big crisis in the family?  Was it really so important?  Bear in mind that they all work together, all the time, but neither her parents nor her brother ever mentioned it to Pandora?  And, if learning about it was bound to be so devastating, why did Lisa chose to tell Pandora when they were on camera? Think of all the other opportunities they must have had to discuss it.   Seems a little mean to me....

Edited February 14, 2015 by BluishGreen

[DebbieM4]

Speaking of Brandi. . . I found this interview from yesterday. . . has she been reading these boards?  http://www.bustle.com/articles/63873-rhobh-brandi-glanville-addresses-yolanda-controversy-says-she-was-not-attacking-bella-hadid

 

 

My favorite quote:  "I clearly don't plan on changing".

 

 Because it's so not a surprise that she would say that.

 

 None of the disgusting things she's said, none of the amazingly hurtful things she's done, none of the drunkenly stumbling photos, nothing she has seen herself do on camera and in tabloids has made the slightest bit of difference to her.  No awareness of how her actions can impact others.  No attention paid to outrage that she publicly called her young son an asshole.  No accountability for her part in numerous friendships coming to screaming halts.  No remorse.  No learning from her mistakes.  Ever.  There's always a reason, always an excuse.  This is how she is and this is who she is.  And - as she said - she's never going to change.

 

She is toxic, dangerous, and destructive.  I wish the others would refuse to film with her, and I wish Eddie would pursue full custody.  She is far too disgusting, immature, and vile to be raising children.

[breezy424]

Regarding Max's desire to find out what his heritage and what generation American he is, none of this is out of the blue.  This was a storyline that was planned and filmed.  Cameras were not 'just there' when Max came to the house and asked about his heritage.  Cameras were not 'just there' when he inputted his birth surname into the computer.  This was planned by Lisa, Max and the producers.  It was all disingenuous. 

Edited February 14, 2015 by breezy424

[WireWrap]

 I think Kim needs to revisit the episode, 2 season's ago, where she and Kyle staged their "intervention" with Taylor to confront her about her drinking. The one where Kim used the false storyline that Taylor did not know where Kennedy was because she was drunk off her butt, even though she knew that was a lie, an outright lie! A lie that she and sister Kyle, with help from production no doubt, used to blindside Taylor and caused Taylor to get death tweets! But Lisa R is being cruel because she is suggesting an intervention for Kim. Oh, and where was Brandi, was she crying foul about them doing that to Taylor, did she blog that they had no right to do that? Nope....crickets! LOL

[DebbieM4]

I hate to defend Brandi, but if the other women were more interesting than she was, we'd see the footage.  I think Eileen and LisaR are the reason people are watching the show this season; however, I also think their novelty will wear off really quickly.

 

Once Max's heritage story is resolved, what will LisaV bring?  I forgot to watch the end credits of the episode with Max and the website.  The cynic in me said that we'd see "Promotional consideration by ancestry.com."  For all we know, he found his birth family years ago, and this is just a concocted story.

 

I'm not sure about that. They film lots of things and then decide what they think viewers want to see.  And for some reason, they think we like the Brandi crap.  I've often felt with all the HW shows that lots of good stuff is left on the cutting room floor.  Bravo seems to have no idea what people really want out of a show like this.

 

I want to see pretty clothes and pretty houses.  I want to see fancy parties and fun vacations.  I want to see day-to-day interactions.  Yes, I want a bit of drama too, but I didn't want all of that dark Taylor/Russell stuff and I certainly don't want to watch Kim Richards go down a terrible path.  And most of all, I don't want to see Brandi anymore.  From Day One, she's been very uninteresting and extremely predictable.  None of the Brandi stuff is the slightest bit interesting to me.  I want to be entertained.  This show is supposed to be giving us a glimpse into Beverly Hills, not into bullshit that happens everywhere.  If I want to see a low-life skank screaming "STFU" at everyone, causing trouble, and feeling sorry for herself, I'll go to some trashy bar.

 

I really think that a whole different and much better show could be put together if some of us here had access to all of the footage that was shot and never used.  Oh, I would love to have that chance!

[WireWrap]

Regarding Max's desire to find out what his heritage and what generation American he is, none of this is out of the blue.  This was a storyline that was planned and filmed.  Cameras were not 'just there' when Max came to the house and asked about his heritage.  Cameras were not 'just there' when he inputted his birth surname into the computer.  This was planned by Lisa, Max and the producers.  It was all disingenuous. 

So you think the scenes with Kyle and her daughters were spontaneous, the college trips were spontaneous, or the scenes between Yolanda/Bella, Yolanda/Anwar, how about the scenes with Eileen/Vince/stepsons, Lisa R/parents, Lisa R/daughter going to concert? LOL They are all planned out, they are all "staged" to a certain extent. That does not mean the feelings are any less real or that these things would not have or didn't happen organically at some point or another. LOL