S01.E06: A Sin To Err

[DeLurker]

I think it was the only way she could get both magnification of what she's trying to see and flash the light for Morse Code at the same time.  She'd need the magnification to make sure that the doctor is looking at her and that Dooley isn't lingering somewhere and could see her signals.  If I'm not mistaken, she pulled the trigger to activate the lights, so I'm not sure it was even capable of firing shots.

She also needed the magnification to read the doctor's hand signals back to her.

[Captain Asshat]

She also needed the magnification to read the doctor's hand signals back to her.

Agreed. Also? I think the hand signals were actually Morse code, which is what Dottie was using with her flashing lights. The doctor used his fingers to tap (dots) and make short vertical lines (dashes).

Edited February 13, 2015 by Captain Asshat

[screamin]

After the scene, I guessed that Dottie's mission on going there with the rifle was to shoot Peggy's boss, and she was asking Ivachenko if she had the go-ahead to do so. He signed that he wasn't ready with the items he was supposed to obtain or an escape plan (it was only afterwards that he asked about the emergency exits) so the assassination was postponed.

Seems to me that if Dottie's supposed to try again later with the shooting, she might not be able to use that dentist's office again - a rotting dentist could attract attention fairly quickly.

[ChelseaNH]

I think the dentist said that he sent everyone home early for the weekend, which gives Dottie a few days (and also confirmed to me that he was about to be a dead man).

[paigow]

I figure they were the ones behind the creation of the Winter Soldier too.

The Winter Soldier project was HYDRA (managed by Dr. Zola). Bucky remained a HYDRA asset - based in post war Russia - into the 21st century. 

[myril]

The Winter Soldier project was HYDRA (managed by Dr. Zola). Bucky remained a HYDRA asset - based in post war Russia - into the 21st century. 

HYDRA managed to hide inside SHIELD, they had to vanish for quite a while, so I would even expect them to have infiltrated Leviathan as well. It could have looked like the Winter Soldier was a Leviathan thing on the surface, but behind it was HYDRA. Don't think what we got to see in the movie excludes the possibility, that Leviathan was involved.

[romantic idiot]

I don't think Sousa came off looking weaker than Thomson, simply because I don't think Peggy saw it that way. She was happy to hit Thomson but I saw a genuine discomfort walking away from Sousa. Plus, ultimately Sousa's the only one who has comprehensively bested Peggy so far. I'd have said Dottie did, but she was still foiled. I'm so glad about how confident and competent they've shown Sousa to be. He's a genuinely nice guy and he's no pushover. 

[Shanna]

I don't think Sousa came off looking weaker than Thomson, simply because I don't think Peggy saw it that way. She was happy to hit Thomson but I saw a genuine discomfort walking away from Sousa. Plus, ultimately Sousa's the only one who has comprehensively bested Peggy so far. I'd have said Dottie did, but she was still foiled. I'm so glad about how confident and competent they've shown Sousa to be. He's a genuinely nice guy and he's no pushover.

I feel the same. I love that he is the one who out together all the clues on Peggy but he still wants to believe her. I am very excited to see the interrogation!

And if we get another season which I dearly hope we will, I want to see the Thompson/Sousa buddy cop scenes every episode.

[theatremouse]

I don't think Sousa came off looking weaker than Thomson, simply because I don't think Peggy saw it that way. She was happy to hit Thomson but I saw a genuine discomfort walking away from Sousa. Plus, ultimately Sousa's the only one who has comprehensively bested Peggy so far. I'd have said Dottie did, but she was still foiled. I'm so glad about how confident and competent they've shown Sousa to be. He's a genuinely nice guy and he's no pushover.

I think it depends on what you mean by "weaker". She literally told Sousa he wasn't going to shoot her, and he didn't. Because he wasn't sure if really she did have some bigger explanation as opposed to playing him? She made him doubt, in both directions, and he just let her walk (ok run) away. I mean, we could get into a whole thing about whether the moment merited lethal force, but clearly in TV logic, everyone else was prepared to shoot her to prevent her from getting away. So his not doing so contrasts. Did he let her escape; did he believe her; did he get played? He doesn't know. Was he holding to his convictions? If so, which: professional or moral? He started this whole path by IDing her as the blonde because he felt had a duty to do so. So for at least a hot minute, he believed her a traitor. But she gives him a sincere look in an alley and now he's not so sure? Thompson's an ass but knew not to underestimate her. At the moment looks to me like Sousa's the opposite on both counts. Does that make him weaker or stronger? Edited February 14, 2015 by theatremouse

[romantic idiot]

I don't think Sousa underestimated her. He was waiting around the corner from Thomson. He just wasn't prepared to gun her down in cold blood. I think because he wanted to question her and he did not condemn her right off the bat. To me, that makes him stronger. But I get your point. 

[Danny Franks]

I think it depends on what you mean by "weaker". She literally told Sousa he wasn't going to shoot her, and he didn't. Because he wasn't sure if really she did have some bigger explanation as opposed to playing him? She made him doubt, in both directions, and he just let her walk (ok run) away. I mean, we could get into a whole thing about whether the moment merited lethal force, but clearly in TV logic, everyone else was prepared to shoot her to prevent her from getting away. So his not doing so contrasts. Did he let her escape; did he believe her; did he get played? He doesn't know. Was he holding to his convictions? If so, which: professional or moral? He started this whole path by IDing her as the blonde because he felt had a duty to do so. So for at least a hot minute, he believed her a traitor. But she gives him a sincere look in an alley and now he's not so sure? Thompson's an ass but knew not to underestimate her. At the moment looks to me like Sousa's the opposite on both counts. Does that make him weaker or stronger?

 

All of this. All it took from Peggy was a few words and all of Sousa's righteous surety drained away. He didn't know what to think, and couldn't make a decision. So Peggy made it for him. She flat out said, 'you're not going to stop me', and he didn't. He was left standing in that alley, looking like a lemon.

 

Peggy knew that she could best him without having to resort to anything more than a few words, and a plea for understanding. She also knew that, as soon as she was confident he wouldn't shoot her, there was nothing he could do to stop her from walking away. This is not the sort of weakness I'm talking about, but Sousa is no match for Peggy (not that any of the guys proved to be, of course). He knew it and she knew it.

 

I expect the interrogation will go similarly to how Sousa's previous interrogation went, where he tries to identify with Peggy and convince her they have a connection. Only this time, Peggy will want to explain herself, so it should go well. I'm more interested in seeing how Thompson's interrogation technique might be altered when he's dealing with someone he knows and seems to care about.

 

The Winter Soldier project was HYDRA (managed by Dr. Zola). Bucky remained a HYDRA asset - based in post war Russia - into the 21st century.

 

 

Which makes no sense. Hydra was a Nazi organisation and could not have survived in Soviet Russia. As remnants absorbed into the KGB (or Marvel equivalent of), then they could have continue to exert an influence, just like Hydra did in SHIELD. Unless Marvel is just using Hydra as a catch all group for those pesky, controversial real life enemies of the US. Perhaps we'll one day hear about Hydra being in charge in Iran and North Korea as well.

[Shanna]

I don't think Sousa underestimated her. He was waiting around the corner from Thomson. He just wasn't prepared to gun her down in cold blood. I think because he wanted to question her and he did not condemn her right off the bat. To me, that makes him stronger. But I get your point.

Here is the thing. Sousa believes she is not a traitor I think, or he at least believes that enough not to kill her. What we are seeing here IMO is a judgement call on her character. Since we know Peggy, we know he is correct.

Physical weakness is not a thing that matters to me regarding Sousa. Mentally I do not believe he is weak. He was smart enough to put together clues others missed and he is smart enough or his instincts are telling him to think there might be another explanation for her actions. We know that he is correct. I see no weakness there.

[Netfoot]

I don't think Sousa underestimated her. He was waiting around the corner from Thomson. He just wasn't prepared to gun her down in cold blood.. 

 

This is an example of TV-Think.

 

Surely, Sousa didn't want to kill Peggy just like that.  But we are given to understand that he believes she is an enemy of his country, and he himself compiled the evidence for this, so he isn't taking anybody's word for it.  So, if he didn't want to kill her but thought she should have been apprehended, he could have put one in her calf, or thigh, and that would be that.

 

So often, Hollywood uses the idea that "You don't want to kill me so you won't dare shoot me!"  But of course, that's rubbish!

[Skeeter22]

Law enforcement shooting someone in the arm or leg is also total fiction. They don't do that in real life because it doesn't work.

I don't think he was wrong to feel betrayed. Not because of their shared underdog status, but because she was a fellow agent he trusted and respected. Her interference with the case may have led to the death of Agent Krzeminski. That could have easily been Sousa himself since they were both working that shift.

Sousa told Peggy if she ran it would confirm for him that she was a traitor, which she technically is. He didn't want to use lethal force and he couldn't run after her. He wasn't letting her go, otherwise he wouldn't have continued to pursue her with Thompson.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Skeeter22

[Actionmage]

Perhaps we'll one day hear about Hydra being in charge in Iran and North Korea as well.

 

Silly rabbit; that's AIM! *g* (Advanced Idea Mechanics, for those not into Marvel.) http://marvel.wikia.com/Advanced_Idea_Mechanics_(Earth-616)

[Raja]

For more international ties  AIM is part of the Iron Man 3 film , which then leads to The Centipede Group on Agents of SHIELD which seemed to be a Hydra agents's asset.

[paigow]

Which makes no sense. Hydra was a Nazi organisation and could not have survived in Soviet Russia. As remnants absorbed into the KGB (or Marvel equivalent of), then they could have continue to exert an influence, just like Hydra did in SHIELD. Unless Marvel is just using Hydra as a catch all group for those pesky, controversial real life enemies of the US. Perhaps we'll one day hear about Hydra being in charge in Iran and North Korea as well.

HYDRA had no loyalty to Hitler by the time we met Red Skull in CA #1. "Hail HYDRA". They were apolitical (beyond dreaming of world domination);

thus, they would be able to co-exist with like minded Russians / Soviets in 1946.

[Danny Franks]

HYDRA had no loyalty to Hitler by the time we met Red Skull in CA #1. "Hail HYDRA". They were apolitical (beyond dreaming of world domination);

thus, they would be able to co-exist with like minded Russians / Soviets in 1946.

 

World domination is not apolitical, and would be completely at odds with the goals of any nation-based power, especially Soviet Russia in the aftermath of the Second World War. Could elements of Hydra continue to exist, under the radar in the Soviet Union? Sure. As an actual organisation running operations? I can't see it, even in Marvel's sketchy version of 20th century history.

[Raja]

HYDRA had no loyalty to Hitler by the time we met Red Skull in CA #1. "Hail HYDRA". They were apolitical (beyond dreaming of world domination);

thus, they would be able to co-exist with like minded Russians / Soviets in 1946.

However they still were nominally part of the Axis Powers and the Soviets came in looking for vengeance. Just as the US used ex Nazis and ex Hydra for SHIELD the Soviets may have taken in ex Nazis and ex Hydra for Leviathan. And the same secret Hail Hydra salute in the shadows of Leviathan as with SHIELD, US Senators... but not in the open.

 

From the Winter Soldier and other shorts and post credit sequences I can only think the reemergence of Hydra, even inside a crumbling Soviet Union was secret until the helio-carriers were about to launch when the US/SHIELD head of the many headed Hydra went public.

[yellowfred]

Well, I just have to ask, why doesn't the magic lipstick affect the person wearing it?

 

So, I've been thinking about this a lot, possibly more than what would be considered healthy, this past week.  Obviously, whatever substance is in the lipstick can be worn without incident, but it rather quickly knocks out someone who kisses the wearer.  My theory is that the substance needs to be ingested, even in very small quantities, for it to actually knock someone out.  So, if you gave someone a peck on the cheek, they'd be fine, and if you licked or bit your own lips while wearing it, you'd pass out.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I think Peggy slipped Dottie some tongue, and that's how she ended up being almost assassinated and then caught by the SSR.

[frenchtoast]

So, I've been thinking about this a lot, possibly more than what would be considered healthy, this past week.  Obviously, whatever substance is in the lipstick can be worn without incident, but it rather quickly knocks out someone who kisses the wearer.  My theory is that the substance needs to be ingested, even in very small quantities, for it to actually knock someone out.  So, if you gave someone a peck on the cheek, they'd be fine, and if you licked or bit your own lips while wearing it, you'd pass out.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I think Peggy slipped Dottie some tongue, and that's how she ended up being almost assassinated and then caught by the SSR.

I figured the wearer applies a barrier film to their lips first--wax or something--and then applies the dosed lipstick.

[Chas411]

Recognised the little kid with Jarvis as Chuckie from Shameless. He seems to be making a niche himself as the odd kid who makes adults uncomfortable.