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S01.E05: The Night Room

Meredith Quill

By Meredith Quill
in 12 Monkeys [V]

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Meredith Quill

Meredith Quill

Please note: In the event that SyFy makes this episode available online/on demand before it airs on television. Be aware that there may be discussion of this episode (and therefore spoilers for this episode) below!

 

Episode Synopsis:

 

Cole and Dr. Railly face off with the Army of the 12 Monkeys when both discover the Night Room – an off-site, black ops lab that houses the virus that will one day destroy the world.

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Bort

Bort

It's really the only thing that makes sense… this virus that came out of nowhere and killed so many people? The future accidentally sent it back in the first place, whoops! Who's the dead body, though? Placing bets!

Jennifer was super-entertaining. She killed me with the "Attention, Night Room shoppers…" and just about everything else she did. I wonder what the significance of swiping Pallid Man's necklace is, nothing came of it in this episode.

I couldn't watch bamboo/fingernail scene. I had to look away.

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ottoDbusdriver

ottoDbusdriver

(edited)

That decomposed body that was the source of the ancient virus -- I'm thinking that was Cole, a future version of Cole that went way, way back in time.  Because Cole started feeling all weird around it -- twice, including a nosebleed after he came out of the vault.   Plus Jennifer said that the eyes looked familiar.

 

Interesting end of episode cliffhanger -- Cole returns to a future where West VII has taken over the complex.  How will he ever get back to 2015 ?

 

I couldn't watch bamboo/fingernail scene. I had to look away.

 

Me too. I cringed when the Florist/Pallid Man did that to Cole.

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

Man, they already let Cole's dirty secrets be revealed.  And, of course, the reactions were way different. Cassandra?  Hurt, betrayed, and will probably not be able to look at him the same way again.  Jennifer?  She totally thought it was awesome and looked like she wanted to have her way with him right then and there.  Yep, that's what I figured!

 

So, yeah, Cole is totally Patient Zero.  The way Cole was acting whenever he got close to the body, and Jennifer's line about the eyes, sure are pointing to that.  I wonder how that is going to happen.  And, this new twist at the very end.  It's hard out there for a time traveler!

 

The Jones/Ramse stuff was well acted, but I kind of figured that their had been tons of failed experiments, and Jones was willing to let it happen, due to the whole "few die, so more can live" stance.  But, it's in character that Ramse would still be pissed.  I'm mainly side-eyeing Max though.  I think they got something big planned, with all her questions and suspicions.

 

Well, the Pallid Man is clearly not a nice guy.  Those bamboo sticks were not pleasant to watch.  I fear for Cassandra and what he has planned for her.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

That decomposed body that was the source of the ancient virus -- I'm thinking that was Cole, a future version of Cole that went way, way back in time...

Or maybe an ancestor of Cole?

So the last we saw of Jones and Ramse, Ramse was trying to talk some moral sense into her. Maybe she'll realize Cole has been gone too long without anything happening and bring him back...from the future??

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

Between the tooth pulling on The Americans and the bamboo under the fingers in this episode, I have had my fill of grossly realistic stuff on tv for this week.

 

I loved that the Pallid Man thought Jennifer would be angry with Cole for killing Leland but it just made her like him even more. Not that I blame her - daddy sounded like a real jerk.

 

Cassie, on the other hand, was understandably upset that Cole (1) killed Henri and (2) lied to her about it. I thought his "I had no choice" explanation wasn't enough. He should have specifically told her that because Henri died in the original timeline, letting him live could have had catastrophic results on the future.

 

I felt so bad for Jennifer standing there all alone after Cole disappeared at the end of the episode. I hope that didn't cause her to become even crazier. I can't wait to see what happens as a result of her stealing the Pallid Man's necklace because that seemed very deliberate on her part.

 

My favorite scene was Cole, Ramse, Jones, and Max sitting around drinking and laughing. And then it all took a turn when they asked about her last name. Just goes to show how drinking can go from hilarious to serious in just a few short moments.

 

I still don't trust Max, but I am glad that Ramse didn't tell her what he found in Jones's room. Is Hannah Jones's daughter? I looked at some of the stuff in her room but I couldn't make much out. I saw that the chalkboard had some dates but I couldn't read what was written on the papers.

 

Jennifer was amusing this week but I agree that a little of her goes a long way. I wonder what caused her devotion to Cole. She didn't seem particularly attached to him when they were at the hospital together.

 

and bring him back...from the future??

Like Marty McFly! HELLO!

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

Between the tooth pulling on The Americans and the bamboo under the fingers in this episode, I have had my fill of grossly realistic stuff on tv for this week...

Yeah, I had to cull some of my shows this week for purposes of time management, and decided gratuitous violence would be a deciding factor. I'm hoping this show doesn't go as far as Revolution or I may have to drop it from my "must see" list (I actually have a spreadsheet *blush*). I'm guessing the purpose of the torture (which I did look away from) was just to establish that The Pallid Man is evil and/or crazy? I mean Pallid recognized that there wasn't any real information to be gained from Cole, right? And shouldn't he know that torture doesn't work for getting credible information anyway (because the tortured person will say anything to make it stop)? Or maybe Pallid watched too many old TV shows and movies? Torturing Cole in front of Jennifer to make her reveal stuff might have worked, but Pallid didn't do that, right? Or did I miss something when I looked away?
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wanderingstar

wanderingstar

This episode packed quite an emotional punch - especially the Jones/Ramse scenes. I was surprised that Cole killing Henri was revealed to Cassandra so quickly. I liked seeing her reaction, and I wonder how much friction it will cause in their relationship. 

 

I'm intrigued by the idea that Jones & Co. caused the virus by trying to stop it.

 

Loved the ending, and next week looks really good!

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)

Did the Pallid Man say the virus was thousands of years old? If that's the case, how is Cole Patient 0? I'm probably missing something.

I'm not sure that I heard either of those things--maybe someone else can clarify? But, if so, maybe Cole gets sent back thousands of years (accidentally or on purpose) to when the plague wiped out most of humanity the first time, and then brings it back with him (accidentally or on purpose).

I liked the reveal that the reason he had been missing the target dates was because of alcohol in his blood that hadn't been factored by Jones. I can hand wave easily that it happened, and appreciate it as a means of explaining why they might have better accuracy in the future. However, it would have been nice to hear a line from him to Jones when he had to go back right after the party, when he was in the machine, like, "Don't forget to adjust for the Drambuie!"

Anyway, it's better than when Stargate SG1 had to retcon that 3 blasts with a Zat makes the target disappear.

Edited by shapeshifter
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belladonna77

belladonna77

I'm not sure that I heard either of those things--maybe someone else can clarify? But, if so, maybe Cole gets sent back thousands of years (accidentally or on purpose) to when the plague wiped out most of humanity the first time, and then brings it back with him (accidentally or on purpose).

I just watched it again and The Pallid Man says inside is a centuries old virus.  So maybe your theory on Cole going centuries into the past and bringing the virus back is correct.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

So I've just caught up on this show over the last couple of days, and this is the first episode I watched in (relative) real time.

 

I'm really enjoying the story they're telling, and the world that's being built. It's not exactly the most elegant use of time travel I've seen, but it all holds together well enough, and I agree that Patient Zero probably is a version of Cole that was flung back into the distant past somehow. It makes a cruel sort of poetic sense that, while he's been going back to stop people from creating the virus, it's actually him going back that will create the virus.

 

Can't wait to see Aaron Stanford's 'what the fuck?' expression when he finds that out. Because it's an expression he does well, and was employed to great use in this episode when Jennifer was fawning all over him.

 

I liked the Pallid Man's casual reveal of Cole's misdeeds, and Cassie's shaken faith in him. It had to happen, because she was really starting to put him on a pedestal as some heroic, romantic figure that he just can't ever be. The shine is off the apple, and I think it will bode well for their long term relationship, even if it hurts it in the short term. She doesn't think that she's the person to help him, because she's not prepared to go to the lengths he is, but I'm guessing that's exactly why she's so important. Because she can make him see a better way of doing things.

 

I find the scenes in 2015 to be the best, whether it's Cole adjusting to that world, Cassie doing her investigating, or the two of them bouncing off one another as they do. But the 2043 scenes in this episode were very interesting as well, and I like the moral ambiguity being presented. You can't perfect a system like the one Jones has without making some heavy sacrifices, and I like that Ramse actually bought into that. He knows they're all morally fucked, whatever they do.

 

I also really, really like the fatalism of all the 2043 characters, in that they're actively trying to bring about their own oblivion. Because life is shit, but if they succeed, then it should be better for whichever people spring from the new timeline. I guess at some point that Cole will start wanting to live, and Cassie will start to have trouble with helping him erase himself.

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BooBear

BooBear

I'm not sure that I heard either of those things--maybe someone else can clarify? But, if so, maybe Cole gets sent back thousands of years (accidentally or on purpose) to when the plague wiped out most of humanity the first time, and then brings it back with him (accidentally or on purpose

When I came here today I was confused because I didn't pick up that Cole spread the virus so I am not sure that will pan out. What worried me more was that he seemed to be having some reaction to it so it seemed to me like he might be immune to a slightly mutated form of the virus but not the pure original. But from the preview next week doesn't look to be the case.

 

This one was ok but a lot of it I didn't really understand. Like what does Pallid man have an actually army following him ...and why were they so willing to die? Did the fire whipe out the virus? If so why didn't things change? Or did they and that is when he Cole is in the new alternate reality. I was kind of lost.

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cynic

cynic

I loved this episode. I loved the drinking scene and the glimpse into Jones. I also think Aaron Stanford is just killing it. The time jumping, possible alternate time lines, and possible paradox with Cole as patient zero has totally hooked me. It kinda reminds me of The Sarah Connor Chronicles, which had one of my favorite series finales ever. I just hope this series lasts long enough to answer some of these questions. I guess its not doing so well ratings wise.

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Maverick

Maverick

 I think that the body was Cole, but not an alternate version...I think it's his ultimately fate to be thrown back in time centuries and become that corpse.   With the last episode, it started to look like the vision of time travel for this show is that fate exists, and you can't beat it---everything is preordained.  In the last episode, the VII were only able to break in because of knowing about the tunnels.  They only knew about the tunnel because of Cole.  Cole was only there because he went back 3 days.  Cole only went back 3 days because the the VII raided the compound.  The VII only raided the compound because they knew about the tunnels.  It's all a predestination paradox. Neither event happened first; they both just happened.  

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Richness

Richness

(edited)

Actually, did they explain why Cole isn't Patient 0 already? While he's immune to the virus like all the survivors of the future are, they can still be carriers. So when Cole popped into North Korea, he could have spread the virus to them then. Or does the current "safe" splinter process or Cole's medically enhanced body kill the virus?

Edited by Richness
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molshoop

molshoop

 

Actually, did they explain why Cole isn't Patient 0 already? While he's immune to the virus like all the survivors of the future are, they can still be carriers. So when Cole popped into North Korea, he could have spread the virus to them then. Or does the current "safe" splinter process or Cole's medically enhanced body kill the virus?

 

      I was thinking along these same lines before I read your post. 

If Cole is carrying the virus that he has full or partial immunity to, there is a limited time in which he can pass it on to others. So he would have to go back thousands of years, catch the virus, come back to 2015 to spread it and then somehow end up back in there. I like the idea of him being patient zero, but I can't figure out they can pull it off.

 

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

(edited)

      I was thinking along these same lines before I read your post. 

If Cole is carrying the virus that he has full or partial immunity to, there is a limited time in which he can pass it on to others. So he would have to go back thousands of years, catch the virus, come back to 2015 to spread it and then somehow end up back in there. I like the idea of him being patient zero, but I can't figure out they can pull it off.

 

But not if time is a self-contained loop, where Cole catches the virus in his present day, and travels back to any time in the past to transmit it to other people, which then leads to the virus spreading in the first place. I think that the show is going to take things in that direction, to pour even more guilt onto Cole, but then begin to tease the idea that the future isn't pre-ordained. To borrow from the other great time travel franchise, "no destiny but what we make".

Edited by Danny Franks
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Bort

Bort

Cole doesn't have to go back thousands of years and "catch" the virus, he already has it, swimming around in his immune system. He doesn't even have to be contagious. If that body is him, they're using it to harvest the virus and create a live, contagious version. It's like what was described up above re: the West VII infiltration of the tunnels. Nothing happens first, it's just a big loop. No cause, just effect.

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LeGrandElephant

LeGrandElephant

They said Cole is immune, but they didn't say if he was a carrier or not. You can be immune in the sense that you quickly fight off a virus and don't spread it, or just in the sense that it doesn't cause symptoms but you could still spread it. I had assumed he was immune in the first sense, because if he's a carrier he should have already spread it to the past, and the time travel scientists would have thought of that. So if they want him to be patient zero they have s lot of explaining to do.

Also how can the eyes look familiar when they have decomposed?

Cole doesn't have to go back thousands of years and "catch" the virus, he already has it, swimming around in his immune system.

Not necessarily. Having the virus and having antibodies to it are not the same thing. They could say that yes the virus is in his body (like chickenpox virus sticks around after you recover from chickenpox), but it could also be that it's not in his body (like most colds you don't have the virus in you forever after you fight it off).

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Wynterwolf

Wynterwolf

This has definitely become appointment television for me, one of the few this season.  I read one of the articles with the showrunner where they talked about Cole's physical difficulties - the headaches, the nose bleeds - being a product of the splintering (which I think it what was worrying Ramse most, once he saw those pictures).  They also talked about how there are time loops (like we've already seen with the bunker invasion), but also that there are potential changes so big that they will break time (like The Mission itself), and that that's what happened when they destroyed the precursor, it just didn't change the future the way they expected.   So I think Cole's reactions around the virus corpse could also be related to his timeline actually changing because of their actions.  This feels like the 'be careful what you wish for phase of the story'.  And yeah, I can't wait to see what Jennifer stealing Palid Man's necklace will mean!  I am loving how everything is woven together!  

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Netfoot

Netfoot

I agree that Patient Zero probably is a version of Cole that was flung back into the distant past somehow. It makes a cruel sort of poetic sense that, while he's been going back to stop people from creating the virus, it's actually him going back that will create the virus.

 

While that is possible, this could be a red herring.  It could be Jones. It could be Jones's husband.  It could be Hannah.  It could be one of the early experimentors Ramse found out about.  It could be any number of people, with Cole being the most obvious, and therefore the least likely.  No doubt, we can expect a dramatic reveal!

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ottoDbusdriver

ottoDbusdriver

(edited)
Does anyone have a screen grab or description of the necklace?

 

Took a look and it's an octagonal medallion about the size of a quarter, and has two symbols on it that are really tough to make out -- the symbol on the right looks like a kind of fish hook.

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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Ronin Jackson

Ronin Jackson

Well I'm probably a jerk for coming on here and griping when most of the posters here are fans, but I'm rapidly losing interest in this show after a great start.  The pilot hooked me... I love time travel stories and thought the reworking of the 12 Monkeys premise was clever, and I liked the paradox bit with the two watches even though it was silly for Goines and his henchmen to just sit and watch Cole do it.  By episode three my interest waned.  I honestly find the two leads utterly dull.  I don't necessarily want to blame the actors as I don't think they're given much to work with with the scripts, but they have no charisma or screen presence.  It's hard for me to think of another show or movie with such lifeless leads but I've probably successfully avoided plenty more egregious examples.  And I've probably been spoiled by the modern renaissance of scripted television with more and more great shows with a cinematic aesthetic, but the aesthetic of this show is so small screen.  It's not really a question of budget, but tight framing, editing, etc.   And the novelty of the time travel conundrums has worn off, which is not a good sign.  I'm not sure how much longer they can maintain all the paradoxes and shifting realities before it becomes hopelessly convoluted.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

I'm not in love with the show, but I do like both leads and they do have chemistry. Although I'm still iffy on Aaron Standford's casting - I think a more classic "action guy" would fit the role better. He just projects a different vibe. Maybe it's because I'm used to him as a tech guy on Nikita, I dunno. Cassandra's actress is OK, but not particularly memorable. But still, chemistry is good, and their relationship is kinda interesting. I feel like Jones and Jennifer are the best actors on the show, TBH. Really memorable and interesting characters.

 

The time travel aspect of the show is laughable, so I try not to think about it. The plot is... OK, I guess. Not very good, but not that bad, too. But I worry that I didn't particularly like the last two episodes. My favorites are the pilot and episode 3, I loved how Cole shot Henry (disappointed this card was played to soon - of course, the writers usually expect the viewers to have attention spans of a two-year old). However, I don't have a lot of expectations of this show - I've never even seen the movie - so I'm in for the ride, for the season, at least. Maybe they'll surprise me, who knows.

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supposebly

supposebly

The show surprises and it keeps me wanting to know how things progress, or loop in this case. I'm a sucker for time travel and as long as a show is good, I don't think too much about any logical fallacies.

I'm not a fan of Cassandra, but I'm getting the hang of Cole and I think I like it.

I don't understand why the Pale, pallid man wants, I barely understand him, maybe I should turn on CC.

 

The scene between Ramse and Jones was wonderful and intense.

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