Unpopular Opinions

[Andorra]

Well, since I'm middleaged myself I think I'm allowed to say it: I have enough of this boring friendship, closeness, understanding, bla bla bla older people love stuff in my own life. It's not that thrilling to watch. Yes, it's realistic and nice enough in real life and they may be proud that they're not "shying away" from older couples, but in a TV show I want to see a classical TV romance. There has to be UST, will they won't they, angst drama, sexual chemistry and sparks flying all around. It's okay to have ONE older couple on the show, but three?? Who cares??!

 

Why do they have a gorgeous, young character like Tom Branson on the show just to have him live like a monk for 4 years? Mary's "romance" wasn't romantic, but creepy and Edith doesn't have any. Downstairs nothing is happening either.

 

Rose/Atticus was a Teen romance. Awfully rushed without any real conflict and just this cheesy fairy tale ending. Urgh.

 

I found the series incredibly boring romance wise.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Andorra

[amensisterfriend]

Why do they have a gorgeous, young character like Tom Branson on the show just to have him live like a monk for 4 years?

 

Some of us don't think Tom is gorgeous. Or remotely interesting, single or otherwise. And just because certain characters are younger doesn't make them or their romances any more intriguing, at least to me. 

 

Honestly, my UO is that romance is nearly always among the least interesting aspect of any show for me, not just DA. 

Edited March 7, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Andorra]

 

Some of us don't think Tom is gorgeous. Or remotely interesting, single or otherwise. And just because certain characters are younger doesn't make them or their romances any more intriguing, at least to me.

 

That's how it is with unpopular opinions. Yours is very unpopular to me and mine is very unpopular to you :-)).

[helenamonster]

Honestly, my UO is that romance is nearly always among the least interesting aspect of any show for me, not just DA. 

 

Agreed, though I've never been able to figure out why. I find myself being startled when the pilot of a new show airs, and a couple that we've seen for maybe five minutes of screentime suddenly has at least ten different Tumblr accounts devoted to them by the time the end credits start rolling. Imo, at least, I think romance is just played out. It's been written about since, well, humans learned how to write, and there are only so many ways to do it. Familial relationships and especially platonic friendships always seem to get the shaft when it comes to taking the time to develop them. So when a show actually bothers to do that, I find myself much more interested. That's why some of my favorite scenes are Mary/Anna, Mary/Tom, Violet/Isobel, etc.

[DeepRunner]

 

My likes/dislikes:  Characters only and no particular order

Hate Thomas.  I just cannot watch and condone inherently mean spirited/evil behavior. Well played by actor but uncomfortable to watch

Hate Spratt:  See Thomas, although Spratt is more about his own center of the universe vs bigger picture

Hate Edith:  I think she has been incredibly self-centered and just outright oblivious to anyone else.  Unacceptable for someone who has previously been set up to be more world-aware and who writes articles on social issues

Hate Mary: Shallow, shallow, shallow.  I'm sure there's supposed a sense of humor there but it's well-hidden

 

 

 

Re: Thomas, it's probly well-known in these parts that I would like nothing more than to see him have a soul-crushing, career-devastating defeat with nothing nor anyone to save him. My halfway UO, however, is that his character serves an essential role. Unfortunately, he has no depth, and has done some pretty unforgivable things (see "Sinderby, Mistress and Bastard Child of"). When he uses his power for good, so say some, it's usually to crush someone else and serve his own purposes. 

[JudyObscure]

Honestly, my UO is that romance is nearly always among the least interesting aspect of any show for me, not just DA.



Amen, Sister!   Most of what the TV writers think of as meeting cute, I see as meeting obnoxious.  Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks seemed to do it a lot.  In the case of Mary and Matthew's first meet, I immediately began to dislike her because she was rude and snobby to a new person in an awkward position and it just seemed so un-gracious, rather like her treatment of her latest love interest.  I soon began to dislike Matthew for being such a doormat as to mope after someone who treated him like that, just because of the mythical Mary hotness. I hate all the movies where the leads are nasty to each other for two hours and then fall into one another's arms during the last 30 seconds, because by then I despise both of them.  Neither am I fond of what I call "Moon Lighting," syndrome where the  Bruce Willis and Cybil Shepherd types spend years getting up the nerve to tell the other one how they feel. Cowards.

 

So  Rose and Atticus are the first screen romance I've really enjoyed in years.  That's how I fall in love, breathless and grinning from ear to ear, while I wait for an excuse to start touching him.

[reveilles]

Also, I think Matthew was the "glue" that held the first three seasons together, and with him gone, it's gone off the rails.

 

Amen to that, 100%! In series 1, the show started out revolving around his arrival at Downton and the way he challenged the status quo. He was absolutely core to the entire plot. In series 2, the family agonized over him making it through the war and was shipping him and Mary (except for Cora, who seemed indifferent to them), and Mary softened because of her love for him. And in series 3, he was the lynchpin to the family's main plot (keeping the estate afloat) and he totally called Mary on her shit, but he did it with humor and grace, once again helping her to become a more beautiful person. I didn't think he was pussywhipped at all. I thought the series 3 dynamic between them was fascinating, both of them pulling in their own ways, in different directions, maintaining a tension but still in love. They both gave ground...eventually. He had a way of correcting Robert with grace and humor, too, and Robert softened a little, for example with respect to Edith's professional ambitions. Matthew might have seemed boring because he was a goody-two-shoes, but I found him fascinating: his inner life was probably the richest of all the characters on the show, but unfortunately that doesn't come across well on screen.

 

I will agree that his character at least being bisexual is entirely plausible to me. :)

[Eolivet]

Wrote out this opinion in the media thread and realized I don't think I'd ever said it here:

 

I LOVED Vera Bates. I mean just adored. She was volatile and dynamic and interesting. Maria Doyle Kennedy was an incredible actress, and her scenes with Coyle sparked with adversarial chemistry. She was the freaking master (mistress?) of line delivery -- how the "salacious little story" about Lady Mary just rolled off her tongue. She was clever and scheming -- her trip to see Carlisle was like a battle royale of evil wit. I was so, so, SO disappointed when she died. I would've loved to see her stick around and cause trouble for everyone. You know she would've wreaked havoc on the upstairs, too -- imagine if she'd found out about Donk's affair with Jane! Or Edith's illegitimate child! Or Violet's Russian dalliance! Imagine her teaming up with Barrow...I just got chills.

 

If I could've kept any character from season 2, I would've kept Vera Bates in a heartbeat. Great actress...great character.

[helenamonster]

Eolivet, I totally agree! And this is coming from someone who loves Anna (and likes Bates depending on what mood I'm in). I know a lot of people feel like that plot went on forever, which it did, but I think MDK was only in three episodes, and one of them was just her dead body at the end. I think if she had spread her havoc around a little bit more, sort of a second O'Brien, it could have been really great.

[caligirl50]

I agree DEEPRUNNER - Bates helped Thomas save his job and then Thomas bad mouths he and Anna to her Ladyship to help Edna Braithwaite (blech).  You would think he would champion Bates after that. I would love to see Thomas' character change but not sure Fellowes sees that as an option. For now, he stays odious.

[Hecate7]

That bothers me, too, because Thomas is the sort of person who likes people who have done him a good turn, and hates people who have crossed him. Bates has now more than made up for any sort of "crossing" Thomas, and the bluntness of their communication ought to have inspired in Thomas a kind of grudging respect at the very least. Thomas was quite loyal to O'Brien in the beginning, when it seemed they were allies, and throwing her aside ought to have made a hole he'd need to fill with someone. Sybil's death, as well, ought to have made him want a friend, and when the crush on Jimmy didn't work out, I think it would have made a great deal of sense for him to turn to Anna, since she was the one who hugged him.

[caligirl50]

Does anyone ever notice that when someone dies, Dr. Clarkson and the other men always face away from the bed?  Except Tom, of course, when Sybil was dying but both Dr.s stood facing away when Sybil was dying...and Dr. Clarkson was facing away when Lavina died.  Really?

Edited July 3, 2015 by caligirl50

[caligirl50]

The other question (if the above was a question) is what was with the storyline in Season 5 of Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes loading down Moesley with work when he asked if he was first footman?  I found it mean and out of character for both.  And it went on for two episodes.  Why?

[SusanSunflower]

Felllowes really really wants to believe that downstairs is largely a nest of vipers .... much like upstairs ... with Carson and Hughes delighting in humiliating Moseley with Daisy and Baxter and Thomas and Mrs. Patmore in on the "joke" against a Moseley's ideas above his station; Thomas and  O'Brien's scheming against his coworkers and divisive and insolent way toward Bates in particular; and Bates as grudge holder bar none  ... Even Daisy and the cook can hardly bear each other half the time ... see also Violet's servants ... all sorts of jealousies and unrequited love ... just like, but with less discretion and sensitivity, upstairs.  It's one of the big contrast between US/DS and Downton ... US/DS upstairs and downstair people cared about and looked after one another, even when they had their disagreement.  However, it must be said that Mr. Hudson would never have tolerated a Thomas with his history of petty theft and meanness.  Exactly how Carson fills his days between meals is a mystery. US/DS would have laughed at Moseley and his pretensions but never sabotaged him. 

[caligirl50]

SusanSunflower - Bates was not a grudge holder so not understanding that assessment. In addition, how do you know what Fellowes wanted?  Just curious.

[Badger]

I think the turning away is about letting the family grieve in private in those first minutes after death.

 

I think Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes wanted Molesley to realize that the status of First Footman comes with extra added duties and responsibilities especially when you're the only footman.  That's fine when you're young and spry, but maybe not so much when you've got some age on you.

[Hecate7]

Felllowes really really wants to believe that downstairs is largely a nest of vipers .... much like upstairs ... with Carson and Hughes delighting in humiliating Moseley with Daisy and Baxter and Thomas and Mrs. Patmore in on the "joke" against a Moseley's ideas above his station; Thomas and  O'Brien's scheming against his coworkers and divisive and insolent way toward Bates in particular; and Bates as grudge holder bar none  ... Even Daisy and the cook can hardly bear each other half the time ... see also Violet's servants ... all sorts of jealousies and unrequited love ... just like, but with less discretion and sensitivity, upstairs.  It's one of the big contrast between US/DS and Downton ... US/DS upstairs and downstair people cared about and looked after one another, even when they had their disagreement.  However, it must be said that Mr. Hudson would never have tolerated a Thomas with his history of petty theft and meanness.  Exactly how Carson fills his days between meals is a mystery. US/DS would have laughed at Moseley and his pretensions but never sabotaged him. 

 

US/DS was informed by a 70s sensibility of what was watchable and likable. The veritable snakepit that is "a workplace," basically just like high school only with adults and with much higher stakes, wasn't depicted much on TV or in film at that time. Shows were about families.

 

Nowadays, we have a more realistic view of what  competition for jobs is really like, and we also demand more conflict and dramatic tension in our shows. There is a rough side to downstairs. Downstairs on this show reminds me of every hotel or restaurant I've ever worked at. Some people were friends, and there was a structure of sorts, some comeraderie here and there, but mostly it was a very mean atmosphere. People helped each other out as needed to look good for customers, but not always. Competition came first, always. There were rules on paper, such as, for instance, rotate the salad bar. But the actual rules were things like never be the person who takes longest to do the salad bar if you want to keep your job--let some other loser actually do it right. Nobody was ever going to answer your questions or show you how to do something, either, if they thought it might help you compete with them. You were expected to have been born knowing these things.

 

It was a terrible place for someone earnest, serious, and kind, like Molesley. Rotten place for someone who is "book smart and people dumb."  But of course it's very often the job you can get, and construction jobs are even less of a good fit for someone like him.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Hecate7

[ZoloftBlob]

I think the problem of the downstairs - and this may be unpopular, I dunno, is that to me, none of them have been likeable for a long time. Carson, to me, was every dick hole holier than thou boss, who treats everyone like crap until they "prove themselves" - he treated Bates like a piece of trash early on for very little reason other than that he could. O'Brien and Thomas were hateful, Mrs. Patmore was mean, and William and Daisy were weak and generally dimwitted. (Mrs. Hughes and Anna were nice) Fastforward - Carson is still an asshole but now that he loves Bates, he gets his jollies tormenting Mosely. Thomas is still hateful. Daisy is mean, and intermittenly dimwitted when it suits to have someone "downstairs" be an idiot. Hughes and Anna are still nice, and Baxter is meh. I actually agree that its a more realistic depiction but really... I watch tv to escape, not see my work issues.
 

[SusanSunflower]

I've worked in some pretty hostile work environments but that was usually management rather than co-workers and co-workers could be tolerated for 8 hours and outlasted until they gave up or found another victim. Professionalism (health care) and the likelihood of needing co-workers assistance precluded being too spiteful (and it would not have been tolerated if it impacted job performance) -- but this was not a situation in which we were in competition with each other... and I also blame Carson whose activities outside of meal times are a mystery to me. It all just adds to the misery of being stuck in a position where praise (or even the chance to do something praiseworthy) is in short supply... just neatly uniformed beasts of burden and the endless routine helping rich folks with their activities of daily living (dressing, bathing, grooming) and serving meals ... yes, that is the contrast with US/DS, those folks were easy to care about because they cared about each other and not in a too much of a Little-House/Walton's sermonette kind of way

[JudyObscure]

I think Fellowes expects us to find it all funny. The teasing of Mosely by Carson and Hughes and the endless snide remarks from Mary to Edith, hilarious.  Which makes me wonder if he was part of the bully group in school.  It's usually a case of someone in a more powerful position rubbing it in that the lower one is beneath them in some way, like Mary reminding Edith that she isn't as popular with men.  That would explain why he thinks it makes sense that an all around good person like Matthew would fall for Mary and forgive her for all her snobbish and catty remarks.  Mary is the Prom Queen and the boys will keep after her no matter how much of a mean-girl she is.  I expect better of adults.

[amensisterfriend]

Here's a huge one: As grim and joyless and trapped in the most absurdly repetitive storyline ever as the writers have made them, I still kind of love Anna, Bates and Anna/Bates. I'll show myself the door! 

[Crs97]

I actually still like Bates. /endwhisper

[ZoloftBlob]

I still like Bates. And Anna. I just wish they'd quit their jobs.

[helenamonster]

Here's a huge one: As grim and joyless and trapped in the most absurdly repetitive storyline ever as the writers have made them, I still kind of love Anna, Bates and Anna/Bates. I'll show myself the door! 

 

I've been terribly flaky about my feelings re: Bates pretty much since the rape, but I think at the end of the day I'd rather keep him than lose him (not that it matters now since we're in the home stretch, but I digress). And even when he's getting on my last nerve I think I do really enjoy him and Anna as a couple. The actors just really spark, and when they don't have a massive storm cloud of terrible things hanging over them, they can be really charming and fun to watch.

 

Anna has been my favorite character since the first episode and no matter how shitty her storyline gets I can't see that changing. I'll wave that flag loud and proud until the credits start rolling on the final episode.

[amensisterfriend]

I'm so happy to see that others join me in loving Bates, Anna and/or Bates/Anna to the increasingly bitter end ;) 

 

Here's another UO: I absolutely loved Anthony Strallan, and the Edith/Strallan was easily among my favorites. Honestly, Strallan remains one of my favorite male characters to be introduced throughout the series, though that's a fairly low bar :) 

[ZoloftBlob]

My only problem with Strallan was that it wasn't developed enough why there were so many objections to his marrying Edith when he previously had been completely suitable. Therefore I didn't like his leaving her at the altar. It was cruel and out of characvter for him. The better story for Anthony and Edith would have been the two of them having their dull marriage while Mary's literally crashed and burned with Matthew's death... The dynamic becomes a lot different when Edith is the successful wife and Mary is the lonely widow.

[amensisterfriend]

ITA that him leaving her at the altar was frustratingly melodramatic and out of character---but, sadly, that was becoming more the norm for this increasingly soapy series by then ;) Aside from that, though, there's just something about the actor/character that really worked for me. He seemed so gentle, gallant and kind. And---despite all the talk of how boring he supposedly was---somehow more engaging to me than many of the other Downton Abbey guys we're supposed to swoon over. Admittedly, I have odd taste :) And it raised a (to me) interesting issue about whether he was being noble or just plain wrong to spare her a life of caring for him when she had chosen to do so. I just found them a lot more compelling than most of DA's other couples and would-be couples...I've seen every episode and honestly have already forgotten the name of Mary's suitors who were around for at least as many episodes as Strallan! 

[kassygreene]

My only problem with Strallan was that it wasn't developed enough why there were so many objections to his marrying Edith when he previously had been completely suitable. Therefore I didn't like his leaving her at the altar. It was cruel and out of characvter for him. The better story for Anthony and Edith would have been the two of them having their dull marriage while Mary's literally crashed and burned with Matthew's death... The dynamic becomes a lot different when Edith is the successful wife and Mary is the lonely widow.

Strallan was a good catch, and a sweet guy, to our 21rst century eyes.  At the time of the wedding, he was a crippled man, rapidly aging, a combat veteran with associated trauma, and living in a society which considered all of these factors as reasons to settle down to the oncoming oblivion.  He had children already, he didn't need any heirs, and his own pride probably chafed a bit at Edith's cheerful willingness to take care of him in his decaying years.

 

When we first met him he was six years younger, healthy and vital for his age, secure in his social position, and Edith was a charming (yes, season 1 Edith could be charming) and interested acquaintance.  Absent the intervention of firstly, Mary, and secondly, the War, that relationship would have easily progressed to marriage and a secure position for Edith.  But in 1920, there probably wouldn't be children, there certainly would be a lengthy period of invalidism, and a sensible family would feel that Edith deserved more, even though it was their Edith, and even though the young men that would have been suitable were mostly dead, or like Strallan, maimed.

 

So I think it's all plausible.  But I also think that JF loves beating up on Edith.  I'm hoping (true Wild A** Speculation here!) that Marigold doesn't wind up with polio, or falling out of the nursery window.

[ZoloftBlob]

Come now can't Marigold have polio AND fall out the nursery window?  I mean, this is *Downton Abbey*....

[SusanSunflower]

... a Lindbergh-like kidnapping has been suggested in the past  ... (cough, by me)  

 

Yes, to how interesting it would have been if the dynamic had changed with Edith married to Strallen happily-enough, giving dinner parties and maybe having a dull and homely child ... Mary has always needed a run-for-her-money and it would have been another good Scarlet O'Hara moment if she rued the day she snubbed Strallen --  

 

Hell, I'd be happy if the Gregson (Strallen's alter-ego) editor came from the dead ... Happy endings all around, with confetti, please!! 

[amensisterfriend]

(yes, season 1 Edith could be charming)

 

I have an (apparently very unpopular!) soft spot for Edith, though the past couple of seasons have made liking her more of a challenge. And it's not just because she's the trampled on Jan Brady of the family! I guess I just understand being so emotional and passionate and not always knowing the best (or anywhere close to the best!) way to manage it. So she's sometimes spiteful and self-pitying and impulsive and makes dopey choices and all that...sadly, I get it :) I also do think that she's got spirit (though, again, more so in the first couple of seasons!), brains, compassion, etc. I'm not glossing over her many, many, MANY flaws, but I guess her flaws are more relatable to me than, say, Mary's. And this is coming from someone who still enjoys that overpraised ice princess to at least some extent, though lord knows why ;) 

 

Unpopularly enough, Sybil never clicked for me---maybe she was a bit too unrelatably perfect, or maybe it's that the actress seemed kind of detached to me and didn't convey the sweetness, mounting passion for 'causes' and social justice, etc. that Sybil was supposed to possess. 

[helenamonster]

Come now can't Marigold have polio AND fall out the nursery window?  I mean, this is *Downton Abbey*....

 

How about Edith gets polio and falls out the nursery window?

[amensisterfriend]

I know many adore the idea of Tom and Mary getting together, but my UO is that I hate it. I see literally no chemistry whatsoever between them. (Is it possible to see LESS than no chemistry?! If so, that's how much I see between them!) The Sybil factor is a little uncomfortable for me (and this is coming from someone who was indifferent to Sybil), and I just can't see them happy. Mary seems to want someone a lot more thrilling, dynamic, physically attractive and 'high society' than the increasingly chubby, bland and personality-deficient Tom. Tom, meanwhile, seems to gravitate towards people far more down to earth, open minded, egalitarian etc. than Mary, who is...pretty much the polar opposite of those things. I get that some romances revolve around the premise that the very type of person you think you're least suited for turns out to be the one you fall in love with, but I just see ZERO sparks or even mild interest on their parts, just a brother/sister-in-law fondness.  Thanks for letting me get that out :)  

[Andorra]

I have another UO: I don't find Matthew Goode remotely attractive. Nor did I find Julian Ovenden or Tom Cullen attractive.

I guess it's because they're dark. Don't like dark men. Last week a friend of mine drooled over Aidan Turner and I was like "What? Seriously?".

[helenamonster]

amensisterfriend, I totally agree about Tom/Mary. The actors have a nice chemistry, but imo, it's very much a brother/sister chemistry, not a romantic one. Not to mention that's it's probably the only healthy relationship Mary has left (besides maybe the one she has with Anna, but that's debatable) and I would hate to see that ruined for a pointless, OOC romance. Luckily, I don't think that's going to happen. I think a few people from the show have dismissed the whole idea as icky.

[Eolivet]

My unpopular opinion is I want to see Mary romantically happy at the end of the show. I know the suitor plots have been terrible, but I still think the idea of "She doesn't need a man -- she can run Downton!" or even worse "But she has George -- she needs to concentrate on being a mother!" is unbelievably depressing. Eighteen months of marriage shouldn't be expected to be enough for a lifetime for a woman who is only 36 years old.

 

I like Henry Talbot, but even if it's not with him -- even if we see Mary going on dates and smoking cigarettes with (gasp!) several different men -- having some semblance of a romantic life, that would be enough for me.

[Andorra]

My unpopular opinion is I want to see Mary romantically happy at the end of the show. I know the suitor plots have been terrible, but I still think the idea of "She doesn't need a man -- she can run Downton!" or even worse "But she has George -- she needs to concentrate on being a mother!" is unbelievably depressing. Eighteen months of marriage shouldn't be expected to be enough for a lifetime for a woman who is only 36 years old.

I feel the same, but more for Tom. I think he is even more in need for a new love, because he is such a loveable person. I find the thought of him waiting almost 7 years for the love of his life, then being married to her for only a year and then being alone for the rest of his life incredibly sad and I really, really want to see him happy at the end of the show!

[Brn2bwild]

 

Thomas is so polarizing, and understandably so, that I'm never sure which opinion about him qualifies as most unpopular :) Mine is that I ADORE the guy, even when it's in a love-to-hate way, to the point where he's easily among the 2-3 characters who keeps me watching. And I think the actor who plays him does an underrated and phenomenal job...and, no, I'm not biased by the fact that he also happens to be pretty easy on the eyes!

 

My, if not unpopular, unusual opinion is that I'm tired of him on Downton Abbey, but I would watch him on a spinoff.  He just needs something real to do...

[AndySmith]

My unpopular opinions:

 

Mary > Edith

Thomas is lame and Sybil could have done much better.

Seasons 3 to 5 aren't as good as the first two, but are also nowhere near as bad as others make them out to be...it's like comparing an A- season to a B+ season

Daisy is annoying

Edited September 16, 2015 by AndySmith

[Andorra]

My unpopular opinion: I find post menopausal sex talk cringe worthy. I don't want to imagine Violet and Prince Kuragin doing it and I don't find Mrs Hughes' "you can have me warts and all" very funny.

Yes, I know older people have sex, too, but I don't have to hear it (or worse see it) on TV.

And it's not because I'm young myself (in the contrary).

Edited September 21, 2015 by Andorra

[RedWolf]

My unpopular opinions:

 

Denker should be fired (probably not that unpopular)

Isobel and Lord Merton should get married (who cares what his sons think)

Mary and Tom belong together.  I watched Downton Abbey backwards ( saw series 5 and 4 first and then watched 1-3) and have shipped them ever since. (actually in my head canon he is Mary's cowboy that Robert told her to go find in America)

Hated Edith in series 1-3, thought she was ok in 4 and 5, and actually kind of like her as of episode 4 in series 6.

Didn't see any chemistry between Mary and Matthew until series 2 and 3. I was actually surprised when they kissed over the sandwiches.

Tony Gillingham and Michael Gregson smelt fishy to me.

I think Evelyn Napier is dull, boring, and not that handsome.

Tom does not look fat. 

Richard Carlisle and Vera Bates are my favorite villains.

I liked Atticus and Rose's romantic storyline ( I could actually get behind it unlike this Mary/Henry Talbot triangle with Tom SL)

[Isazouzi]

I guess I have to say it before the show is over: I hate the way Mary speaks. Not her accent per say, but the way everything she says sounds like a question, because her inflection goes up at the end of every single sentence or before every pause. It just drives me crazy, I have to make a conscious effort not to hear it.

[saki]

Isazouki - me too! Though more because I feel like she overdoes the languid/bored way of talking. It's fun when it's used more sparingly - e.g. the way the Dowager does it - but when every single sentence is said as though she is bored/catatonic, it's just annoying.

[skyways]

Yes she has no emotions anymore. I find her too plastic and bloodless this season. Last season was when it first manifested. When she sat on that horse in episode one she looked like Charlton Heston's effigy on his horse in El Cid!!

 

And I never thought I would say this but Edith has eclipsed her in dynamism and vivacity. Mary has faded! Ouch!

Edited October 24, 2015 by skyways

[Dianaofthehunt]

Here are my unpopular opinions, in order of horrible-ness.

 

1. I couldn't care less about the mother-daughter bond between Lady Edith and Marigold. I couldn't care less that she was "torn away" from her Swiss pseudo-parents, and then her pig-farmin' pseudo parents. She's a cute kid and all, but the "bond" story is nothing but vomit, in my opinion.

 

2. Mary goofed up by letting  Blake slip away. He was every bit her match.

 

3. There should be (and should always have been) at least 40 minutes of Doctor Clarkson in every episode!

 

4. There's altogether too much palling around between Upstairs and Downstairs. Too much, "oh, we care about them too; after all they're part of the family and make the house run smoothly." Puke, puke, puke. I refuse to believe that's how it actually was Back in the Day.

[ZoloftBlob]

Puke, puke, puke. I refuse to believe that's how it actually was Back in the Day.

 

I think it was kinda like that with an obvious caveat.  Season one reflected it better, that servants pretty much depended on the whims of the upstairs folk. Robert almost fired Bates his ex-war buddy because it was easier to do that than have Carson whine, even though Bates made it pretty clear he was quite desperate for the job. Cora considered O'Brien "a friend" but had no problem telling the bitch to shut her bitch mouth or get out. The servants also fed the upstairs folk dirty food on at least one occasion....

 

My point I suppose is that as long as it was easy, the upstairs folks in the olden days were probably kind to their servants but no one was going to go broke over helping the housemaid have a healthy baby.

[MissLucas]

I think there's a lot of sugar-coating going on with regards to how the Crawleys treat their servants. But I don't consider DA a historical drama in the first place. I've spoken to people who were in service in the 30's and 40's and even though their tales did not contain any true horrors (like sexual assault of female servants) the picture they painted is nowhere as benign as what we see on DA.

 

The Crawleys have two convicted criminals in service plus two who were accused of murder (one of them twice), they even paid for the later's legal counsel. They also have not kicked out a more or less openly gay footman who's a well-known troublemaker and a thief. Ethel, who got herself into 'trouble' was fired by Mrs Hughes and not the family who once they realized what had happened to her went out of their way to help her. And they still haven't fired the insolent assistance cook who keeps whining about her fate despite working for the most servant-indulgent family that ever graced a tv-screen.

[ZoloftBlob]

Oh there's no way the servant situation is realistic on DA - it's not historically accurate. There's utterly no way that Robert would have kept Thomas around after the cops came out to the cricket game to publically arrest Thomas for attempted sodomy or whatever. Frankly Jimmy would have probably gotten the boot over that as well, for creating a public scene. There's no way everyone wouldn't have been horrified - we're talking about the same country where they chemically castrated and drove to suicide the brilliant guy who saved them all from speaking German because he was gay.

[Lady Grump]

Just noticed this thread. What fun! My UOs?

 

1) I love Barrow. LOVE him! It had to be a nightmare being same-sex oriented back in the day (and still is, in many communities). As such, I understand the chip on his shoulder. Besides, everyone is shitty to him, so why can't he be shitty back? For me, it's a "chicken or egg" question -- and I choose to believe "they" were mean before he was. lol.

 

2) I cannot STAND Anna! Ugh! In real life, I don't care for rule-obsessed goodie-two-shoes. On TV? I actively hate them and root against them. Also, I just don't believe there is anyone that "good". Everyone has at least one skeleton in their closet, and the fact that she is presented as perfect drives me batty. I'm not a huge fan of Bates, either, but at least we knew he used to be a mean drunk, but changed. That makes me like him more. He's not perfect, and he made an effort to change. That said, he's a little too stoic for my taste.

 

3) Liked Bunting. (I'm a sucker for anyone who isn't afraid to speak truth to power -- even rudely.)

 

4) Want snobby Carson to die. Never liked him, never will. It's too late. Die Carson, DIE!

Edited October 26, 2015 by Lady Grump

[mowgo]

Dianaofthehunt wrote:

 

2. Mary goofed up by letting  Blake slip away. He was every bit her match.

 

 

I agree.  Mary making Charles breakfast, after saving the pigs, was the most romantic scene she's had with any of her post-Matthew beaus.  The two of them had real chemistry together.