The Spencers: Foiling Plans for World Domination Since the 80s

[jsbt]

It felt like six months.

 

And it was a horrible story that needed to end, but the problem is Ron and Frank lost all interest in her once the audience rejected Wild Amnesia Lulu.

[dubbel zout]

Maybe it was only a month. Milo was heavily involved, so it felt like a decade.

[ulkis]

It was a month and a half to be exact. ER debuted in mid April, and it finished the end of May.

 

Three other terrible ideas happened during that month too. At least Milo ended I suppose, but at this point, I'm wondering if Milo is preferable to Franco. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by ulkis

[jsbt]

That's the kind of choice that only ends well with me turning the gun on myself.

[LeftPhalange]

It was a month and a half to be exact. ER debuted in mid April, and it finished the end of May.

 

Three other terrible ideas happened during that month too. At least Milo ended I suppose, but at this point, I'm wondering if Milo is preferable to Franco. 

 

At least Milo isn't a sub-human filthy worthless degenerate piece of shit who should have been flushed down the toilet or aborted. Milo is dim but harmless.

[ulkis]

At least Milo isn't a sub-human filthy worthless degenerate piece of shit who should have been flushed down the toilet or aborted. Milo is dim but harmless.

 

but his face. :(

Edited April 3, 2015 by ulkis

[ulkis]

There was also Frank and the Mikey Jerome Incident at OLTL, but I'll let someone else tell that story.

 

I now know what this was about, thanks. So Frank hired the hottest guy from an acting contest instead of the most talented one, eh. The annoying thing is, his taste in men is not that great either. Generic city.

[jsbt]

Mikey Jerome made Ryan Paevey look like Laurence Olivier. I'd post a clip but it would be wildly OT. Like this post!

[OnceSane]

but his face. :(

*DEAD*

[ulkis]

Mikey Jerome made Ryan Paevey look like Laurence Olivier. I'd post a clip but it would be wildly OT. Like this post!

 

Posting my response in the nurses floor/off topic thread

[Aurora2]

Didn't they want a newbie but went with ER because they ultimately decided they needed someone who could jump into the story and not get overwhelmed? I seem to remember reading that ER's prior soap experience won out.

 

 

Yeah, but according to DZ they only auditioned about 10 girls before FV said he (Dom) would eat them all alive. First of all, 10 girls! That seems like nothing, but I don't know much about it.

 

Second, now it annoys me all over again because I didn't think about it at the time but it's another case of FV sticking in his damn oar again. He should have just let Teschner do his damn job.

 

In addition to being experienced in soaps, having an established fan base apparently was also considered an asset in hiring Emme.  Both factors were referenced by Dom and JT at their East Coast PAs on March 9/10, 2013.  And some GL and Y&R fans did follow her to GH – or were already GH fans but who supported her because they knew her from these soaps.

 

As for a conspiracy theory, I don’t know what to think.  I know Julie gave her notice in the summer of 2012 and, at that time, agreed to stay on until March.  Was this to facilitate this relatively minor “get” from Y&R (no dig intended at Emme, but she was recurring in a relatively minor role as compared to MS and BM)?  Or was it to time Lulu’s disappearance and re-appearance with a Luke and Laura story for GH’s 50th?  Or was the delay and the seemingly rather slipshod Lulu-recasting process a direct result of management’s preoccupation with losing Starr, Todd and Kiki and writing and retooling to accommodate this upheaval?  I would think that this last factor would have loomed large for FV and RC at this time. 

 

Whatever the answer, the casting call didn’t go out until mid-January, 2013, and reports are that at least some of the auditions didn’t happen until the later part of February – when Julie was literally on her way out of the door at GH.  As well, Emme spoke in a magazine interview about having very little time from her initial phone call from GH to make her decision and notify Y&R.  BTW, she started taping at GH the week of March 18. 

 

Regardless of the above, I do wish that the casting process had started earlier and had been handled by the capable Mark Teschner without management influence.  Emme is finding “her” way as Lulu, but, for me, she still feels miscast in the role and I sometimes have found myself wishing she had come to GH as another character.

[Aurora2]

I like ER quite a bit but I don't think the actress would make a difference. They gave Julie Berman fuck-all to do too.

 

Re Julie/Lulu not being written for, I do think there was a brief period of promising Lulu writing by RC.  In fact, I have a disconnect with how I saw RC writing Lulu in his first months on GH and with what happened with the later writing for her, especially after October, 2012.  For me, Julie’s last really good scenes as Lulu were those at GH when she told Dante about not being able to carry a child.  She had a few snippets after that (such as her farewell dream visit with Maxie, moments in the ultrasound and her classically-Julie put down of Scotty at the Haunted Star).  However, from November, 2012 on, she was mired mostly in  rushed adoption and surrogacy plans, stuffed and live puppies, nagging Maxie and setting up the plot points of Lulu’s kidnapping and the never-ending cycle of baby stories. 

 

Yes, the baby story started in August with Lulu’s surprisingly thinking she might be pregnant and the resulting attempts to conceive leading to the sad medical diagnoses in late October.  However – at least for me – this part 1 of the baby saga had heart and some good dialogue between Dante and Lulu.  As well, Lulu got to do other things at that time, such as resourcefully trying to help Dante defuse a bomb in the water supply crisis.

 

But my focus is even more on RC’s writing for Lulu prior to the August introduction of the baby business.  I actually thought I saw RC taking a positive interest in Lulu as a character – even if she didn’t have a huge amount of air time.  Her drinking story ended and she was hired at the PCPD where RC allowed her to use her Spencer intuition and solve the stripper case.  The aftermath sucked when the focus left Dante and Lulu for RC’s and FV’s shining stars, Sam and McBain.  But at least Lulu got to solve the case … and then she was “allowed” to embark on a real job that suited her more – running the Haunted Star.  And – surprise- we actually saw her working there.  As well, during that summer, she was the mature Lulu using tough love to help Patrick with his short-lived drug problem.  During this time, the writers really solidified the Luke/Lulu relationship with Lulu sometimes even being more the parent than the child with Luke.  I felt reasonably positive for the direction for both Luke and Lulu during this brief interlude.

 

So what happened?  Poof!  The signs of developing writing for Lulu disappeared!

[ulkis]

Re Julie/Lulu not being written for, I do think there was a brief period of promising Lulu writing by RC.  In fact, I have a disconnect with how I saw RC writing Lulu in his first months on GH and with what happened with the later writing for her, especially after October, 2012.  For me, Julie’s last really good scenes as Lulu were those at GH when she told Dante about not being able to carry a child.  She had a few snippets after that (such as her farewell dream visit with Maxie, moments in the ultrasound and her classically-Julie put down of Scotty at the Haunted Star).  However, from November, 2012 on, she was mired mostly in  rushed adoption and surrogacy plans, stuffed and live puppies, nagging Maxie and setting up the plot points of Lulu’s kidnapping and the never-ending cycle of baby stories. And – surprise- we actually saw her working there.  As well, during that summer, she was the mature Lulu using tough love to help Patrick with his short-lived drug problem.  During this time, the writers really solidified the Luke/Lulu relationship with Lulu sometimes even being more the parent than the child with Luke.  I felt reasonably positive for the direction for both Luke and Lulu during this brief interlude.

 

So what happened?  Poof!  The signs of developing writing for Lulu disappeared!

 

Given the timing, it really does seem like Julie's leaving had something to do with it, since she gave her notice in July.

 

 

Or was the delay and the seemingly rather slipshod Lulu-recasting process a direct result of management’s preoccupation with losing Starr, Todd and Kiki and writing and retooling to accommodate this upheaval?  I would think that this last factor would have loomed large for FV and RC at this time. 

 

I do think that a lot to do with it.

[dubbel zout]

I don't think there was any conspiracy theory; rather, a combination of all the things you listed, Aurora2. JMB stayed around longer so that there would be at least a small gap between her leaving and the recast starting, thus avoiding a situation like when TB left: Carly went upstairs with her face and came down three days later with Jennifer Bransford's. That sort of thing doesn't really bother me (it cracks me up, actually), but I know TPTB don't like to do that if they don't have to.

 

I also think last-minute casting is typical of Frank and Ron. I don't know if they think that limits leaks or what, but ER isn't the first actor that's happened to.

 

So what happened?  Poof!  The signs of developing writing for Lulu disappeared!

 

Ron got sidetracked by the lawsuit and became bitter than his supersoap would never happen. Writing for young women has never been one of Ron's strengths. He doesn't know what to do with them if they aren't pregnant and/or have DID.

[Aurora2]

Given the timing, it really does seem like Julie's leaving had something to do with it, since she gave her notice in July.

 

 

I do think that a lot to do with it.

I expect that the manoeuvring with both versions of  that threesome affected Lulu story as well as the casting process.  I referred to a piece of it in my mention of the stripper story focus turning to Sam and McBain.   As well, I expect that that quality of Julie's last week's of scenes was lost in the attempts to give the threesome their sendoffs.  (I didn't expect a big farewell for Julie's Lulu, but I do think a few more "nice" scenes could have been included).  And then ER started just as RC and FV were trying to establish their threesome of actors as new characters and was disadvantaged by that.   Bad, bad timing all around. 

 

And, to the first point, I definitely see a connection between the writing change for Lulu and Julie's decision to leave.   Was this because RC wanted to recreate Lulu?  Or was he holding off until he saw WHO would play Lulu and if she would fit the Lulu established by Julie?  Or did he think that he could throw a new Lulu into a baby story and use cute babies and conflicts over them to accommodate changes in both writing and the acting style and screen presence of whoever was cast in the role?  Or did he just not care?

 

I don't know.

[dubbel zout]

I definitely see a connection between the writing change for Lulu and Julie's decision to leave.

 

How far before JMB left did Lulu get baby rabies? According to Wiki, JMB told TPTB in July 2012 that she wouldn't be renewing her contract when it ended in November.

 

 I think JMB leaving gave Ron the excuse he wanted to change the direction of Lulu. I don't think there was anything vindictive toward JMB with the writing for Lulu. I think it was simply Ron's inability to fathom that women can have more than babies on their minds. Or that babies aren't the only thing they want from life.

 

The only reason we've been spared a Molly pregnancy is because (thank GOD) Haley Pullos is still underage. You know the instant she turns 18 is the day she sleeps with TJ (or whoever's around) and gets pregnant. Because of course that's more interesting than her going to college or writing another book or anything not baby-related.

[jsbt]

Everything suffered because of the OLTL shenanigans. They dumped a lot of potential story for a bunch of characters, A.J. included, just to re-entrench the three OLTL stars as new characters.

 

As for Lulu, I do know FV was gambling he could convince Julie Berman to stay even longer, much like he gambled on Steve Burton coming back and lost (along with other stars in the past). So that may have contributed to a rush. But I do think Ron was eager to re-envision a new Lulu in his own fucked-up image of a young heroine. When the audience hated the amnesia story, he lost interest.

Edited April 5, 2015 by jsbt

[LeftPhalange]

Ron got sidetracked by the lawsuit and became bitter than his supersoap would never happen. Writing for young women has never been one of Ron's strengths. He doesn't know what to do with them if they aren't pregnant and/or have DID.

 

Writing for young men, older women, older men, teens, or young kids isn't one of Ron's strengths either. At least not on this show.

[Aurora2]

How far before JMB left did Lulu get baby rabies? According to Wiki, JMB told TPTB in July 2012 that she wouldn't be renewing her contract when it ended in November.

 

 I think JMB leaving gave Ron the excuse he wanted to change the direction of Lulu. I don't think there was anything vindictive toward JMB with the writing for Lulu. I think it was simply Ron's inability to fathom that women can have more than babies on their minds. Or that babies aren't the only thing they want from life.

 

The only reason we've been spared a Molly pregnancy is because (thank GOD) Haley Pullos is still underage. You know the instant she turns 18 is the day she sleeps with TJ (or whoever's around) and gets pregnant. Because of course that's more interesting than her going to college or writing another book or anything not baby-related.

 

In August, 2012, Lulu was very surprised when she had a positive pregnancy test.  Once she thought about it, she realized  that she was ready to have a baby and was a bit disappointed when she found out she wasn't pregnant.  For a couple of months, there was fun stuff with her and Dante trying to get pregnant, but I wouldn't call it "baby rabies."  She was devastated in late October when she learned she couldn't carry a child ... and that's when the writing seemed to change with the adoption and surogacy plans and her nagging Maxie about looking after herself. 

 

I'd estimate that it would have taken until about October for Julie's announced plans to leave to work through the planning, writing and taping process.   I know script writers prepare scripts about two months ahead of time.   And, even though subject to change, overall story plans are done months in advance. 

 

Yeah, I never saw the change in writing as vindictive either. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by Aurora2

[Aurora2]

Everything suffered because of the OLTL shenanigans. They dumped a lot of potential story for a bunch of characters, A.J. included, just to re-entrench the three OLTL stars as new characters.

 

As for Lulu, I do know FV was gambling he could convince Julie Berman to stay even longer, much like he gambled on Steve Burton coming back and lost (along with other stars in the past). So that may have contributed to a rush. But I do think Ron was eager to re-envision a new Lulu in his own fucked-up image of a young heroine. When the audience hated the amnesia story, he lost interest.

 

Yes, and we have all seen that trying to entrench the three OLTL characters certainly wasn't worth the damage to other characters!

 

I had heard that about FV hoping he could convince Julie to stay, so that is another likely factor in the delay in replacing her. 

 

As for the amnesia story, as bad as it was, I was also disappointed in the writing after Lulu's memory was restored.  The writers transformed the character of Lulu from a fiesty, opinionated, independent woman looking for adventure into a sweet-as-sugar homebody.  RC's perky, sweet, almost-too-nice, maternal Lulu was pleasant enough, but, for the longest time, it seemed that the writers forgot to restore much of what had made Lulu Lulu. 

 

I guess doing so was "easy writing" as he was losing interest.  The part that still sticks with me, however, is that, for several months after he first came to GH, RC showed solid signs of writing Lulu in a more complex way. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by Aurora2

[ulkis]

Everything suffered because of the OLTL shenanigans. They dumped a lot of potential story for a bunch of characters, A.J. included, just to re-entrench the three OLTL stars as new characters.

 

As for Lulu, I do know FV was gambling he could convince Julie Berman to stay even longer, much like he gambled on Steve Burton coming back and lost (along with other stars in the past). So that may have contributed to a rush. But I do think Ron was eager to re-envision a new Lulu in his own fucked-up image of a young heroine. When the audience hated the amnesia story, he lost interest.

 

Was it really that unpopular? I just find it hard to believe it was anywhere near as bad the feedback, for, say, Franco/Carly and Franco in general. But I guess the difference is Ron didn't care enough about Milo to keep trying.

[dubbel zout]

I guess the difference is Ron didn't care enough about Milo to keep trying.

Which is kind of odd give how hard Milo was being pushed as someone we're supposed to cotton to. I never minded him in the small doses we got him, but once he started being presented as a viable romantic option, forget it. 

 

Guza was the one who started it all with Milo, in that dumb Three Stooges story. Ugh.

[ulkis]

In the past Lulu has gone to extremes (think bordello) out of love for and loyalty to Luke.  However, she also saw his dark side - his flaws - and often called him out on them.  He was a very formative influence in her young life with his many absences and his cynical views on family, love and marriage.  However, for the past two years, the darker side of growing up as Luke Spencer's daughter has been effectively dismissed and we get lines like the recent one to Valerie:  "“For most of my life, he’s been this amazing, caring, hilarious dad.”  Puzzling this one.

 

 

Yes, but there have been definitely times where she's wiped out all his sins in her desperation to get him back, the bordello being the greatest example. She blamed Lucky for driving him away and then she dragged Dante all over the place to bring him back, even though Luke expressly didn't want to be found.

 

Lulu and Tracy are disappointingly one note about Luke, and I'm sure will continue to be to drive a wedge between her and Dante. 

 

Bobbie, I feel, seems to be less annoying about it, but that just may be my own projection, since she knows him the best.

 

I can't really take any of this seriously without Lucky though. I missed a few scenes here and there. Did anyone mention him? I assume not, otherwise someone on the board would have mentioned it. Really hope someone mentions he's unreachable soon or something.

 

So yeah while I wish Lulu would wake up and smell the coffee I can't say it's out-of-character. I do wish someone would take her aside and be like "concentrate on your husband and son instead of trying to defend your father at all costs." I do feel like it's more of the narrative telling me to feel 100% sorry for Luke, and I don't.

Edited April 11, 2015 by ulkis

[Aurora2]

Yes, but there have been definitely times where she's wiped out all his sins in her desperation to get him back, the bordello being the greatest example. She blamed Lucky for driving him away and then she dragged Dante all over the place to bring him back, even though Luke expressly didn't want to be found.

 

Lulu and Tracy are disappointingly one note about Luke, and I'm sure will continue to be to drive a wedge between her and Dante. 

 

Bobbie, I feel, seems to be less annoying about it, but that just may be my own projection, since she knows him the best.

 

I can't really take any of this seriously without Lucky though. I missed a few scenes here and there. Did anyone mention him? I assume not, otherwise someone on the board would have mentioned it. Really hope someone mentions he's unreachable soon or something.

 

So yeah while I wish Lulu would wake up and smell the coffee I can't say it's out-of-character. I do wish someone would take her aside and be like "concentrate on your husband and son instead of trying to defend your father at all costs." I do feel like it's more of the narrative telling me to feel 100% sorry for Luke, and I don't.

 

Focusing on the Lulu part of this conversation for now  - and risking boring you with an essay, should you choose to slog through, here's my somewhat-repeated, detailed take on Luke/Lulu history and why I feel disconnected from Lulu in this story. 

 

I miss Lucky, too - a lot.  Mind you, if Lucky were here, we likely wouldn't see nearly as much of Lulu, so perhaps we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 

Defending Luke - even against reason - is not OOC for Lulu.  You'll get no argument from me on that point.  Lulu herself even acknowledged that she had become fixated too much on finding Luke during the bordello summer and doing so became "even more important than the man I love."

 

That aspect of Lulu hasn’t changed, but Lulu also used to have significant periods of time when she also felt estranged from Luke – when she saw, felt and lived the dark side of growing up as Luke Spencer’s daughter … and of living in a family which had been badly damaged by Laura’s retreat into her catatonic world and by Luke’s seeming rejection of his family and his cynicism about marriage, love and lasting relationships. 

 

The Lulu I watched from the time she was SORAS-ed to a 17-year-old in late 2005 became sympathetic to me because, from the beginning, I saw her trying to get that feeling of family - of really belonging – that she wanted so much.  I remember an early Lulu episode when she was being the defiant, bratty teen we saw a lot then. But the winning moment in that episode occurred when, finally alone, Lulu’s tone changed completely and she cried.

 

From that time on, I saw the vulnerability and complexity in her and became more interested in and supportive of her as a character.  So, in spite of her screw-ups – in spite of the times when she became bitchy or sullen or OTT focused on her father, I understood why she was being that way and I still rooted for her. I was happy when she learned a glass full approach to life (her words on NYE 2011/12) and when she found family and sustained love both with Dante and with an improved, more stable relationship with her father.  But I always felt that Lulu still carried her history with her – and that it was part of the happier, more centered adult she had become.

 

I stopped feeling that way in the summer of 2013 (and this was not so much about recasting Lulu as it was about the writing for Lulu – other than that the changed writing perhaps playing more to Emme’s sweet, bubbly personality).  Once Lulu regained her memory, the writers seemed to wipe the slate clean for Emme’s Lulu.  I saw a perky, sweet, happy smiling Lulu with no real trace of the ordeal she had just survived or of the darker sides of her life story – a Mary Sunshine kind of character.  Yes, there were passing dialogue references, but they were – and continued to be for me – brief comments with no real sense that they had really affected Lulu or were part of the woman she had become.  Instead I saw examples such as her saying in 2013 that Luke was always there for her … and recently to Valerie: “For most of my life, he’s been this amazing, caring, hilarious dad.”  That’s only part of the Luke/Lulu history.

 

Getting back specifically to the point of this conversation and Lulu as I see her now with Luke, I get absolutely NO sense that the present Luke/Lulu relationship was ever damaged – that Lulu had ever felt she had to fight hard to win her father’s love and to establish the sense of family she wanted so much.  And, without that balancing sense of a struggle fought and won, Lulu’s present OTT focus on Luke is neither sympathetic nor particularly interesting to me.  And I just see her blindly supporting a man who has wreaked havoc on many lives and who does deserve some hatred from those he hurt.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Aurora2

[dubbel zout]

Bobbie, I feel, seems to be less annoying about it, but that just may be my own projection, since she knows him the best.

 

Yeah, I think Bobbie is more resigned about Luke's actions, generally speaking. She's also like that with Carly's. It's all a big sigh and a vaguely disapproving comment. Which is annoying on its own terms, but she doesn't keep harping on Luke's goodness the way Lulu and Tracy are doing.

 

I do feel like it's more of the narrative telling me to feel 100% sorry for Luke, and I don't.

 

I know. How are we supposed to feel sorry for Luke? He had his own nephew shot and wanted the HS to blow up with his daughter on it. Not to mention he's been acting like an ass for a long time. I'm sorry, but DID won't just wipe the slate clean here. It's gross that Ron always uses mental illness to excuse people's heinous actions, and everyone is supposed to go along with it and have no problems with it.

 

Of course no one has suggested telling Lucky, Laura, and Nathan what's going on.

Edited April 11, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

Of course no one has suggested telling Lucky, Laura, and Nathan what's going on.

 

You can't even remember his name, of course no one on the show has told the Retcon! ;)

[dubbel zout]

D'oh! I'm not going to correct it.

[Oracle42]

Someone needs to tell Nathan that he only exists because Luke had a psychotic break and actually believed Paloma was her cousin Holly. It's very sad but he has a right to know

[GHScorpiosRule]

Someone needs to tell Nathan that he only exists because Luke had a psychotic break and actually believed Paloma was her cousin Holly. It's very sad but he has a right to know

 

Nathan? Or Ethan? Because Nathan is the actor's name you're referring to, right? But his character was Ethan. And we have that block of wood character, Nathan, who is Obrecht's son.

[UYI]

She meant Ethan, but used the name of his actor instead by mistake. And then decided not to correct it because it amused her. It is more confusing now that there's a character named Nathan, though :P .

Edited April 13, 2015 by UYI

[dubbel zout]

I meant Ethan, but wrote Nathan by mistake. I wasn't thinking of Nathan Parsons at the time. It was a failure on many levels.

 

But yes, I didn't correct it because I hated Ethan and if I can erase his existence for even a moment, I will, dammit!

[GHScorpiosRule]

I meant Ethan, but wrote Nathan by mistake. I wasn't thinking of Nathan Parsons at the time. It was a failure on many levels.

 

But yes, I didn't correct it because I hated Ethan and if I can erase his existence for even a moment, I will, dammit!

 

Got it! Anything that will prevent you from taking that Xanax, dubbel, because then we won't hear from you for days!

[dubbel zout]

It takes more than Xanax to knock me out.

[ulkis]

I think a non-JJ Lucky would be treated with no contempt with Cartini around, and especially without Tony Geary around. I think the only reason the recasts before were so bad was because they didn't want to pick any actors that would even come close to JJ's level.

Unless they send Liz to live off-screen with him, Lucky's absence is always going to be a hole, imo

[Oracle42]

I think a Lucky recast is necessary. But I swear by all that is holy - if they hire some shitty, talentless underwear model, I will drive to CA in an astronaut diaper so that I can burn those ugly, gray sets to the ground

[KerleyQ]

I think a Lucky recast is necessary. But I swear by all that is holy - if they hire some shitty, talentless underwear model, I will drive to CA in an astronaut diaper so that I can burn those ugly, gray sets to the ground

 

If they hire JPL or Robert Ford, I swear...

[Tiger]

Did we ever get confirmation one way or the other on JJ coming back for at least one for Tony's exit?

Before ABC announced its fall schedule, I had heard "Nashville" wouldn't be on the fall schedule, and then it was announced as starting in the fall, yet I'm still hearing it actually isn't starting until January because both HP & CB have other commitments. So I don't know what is going on.

And I still don't understand why Lucky (and Robin, but that's another issue for another day) can just live in another town and co-parent the boyiz off-screen.

[dubbel zout]

Did we ever get confirmation one way or the other on JJ coming back for at least one for Tony's exit?

No, but this might be something Frank and Ron are keeping on lockdown. Not that seeing Lucky would be a giant surprise, but I can see them wanting to keep people guessing.

 

I can't imagine JJ wouldn't come back if his schedule allowed, even more so now that GF is also returning.

[Tiger]

I guess because I was first introduced to Luke when he was running that diner with Laura & Lucky, I want Tony's final scene to just be him, Genie, and Jonathan. For six years those three had something truly special. And I don't think Genie & Jonathan have been on-screen together since 1999!

[ulkis]

If JMB were still here as Lulu I'd be kinda grumpy at that notion but since she's not, I agree :)

I think actually Luke's last scene should be just him. Looking fondly at P.C. and admitting he actually likes the place

[dubbel zout]

Or that at least he was happy there.

[Aurora2]

I guess because I was first introduced to Luke when he was running that diner with Laura & Lucky, I want Tony's final scene to just be him, Genie, and Jonathan. For six years those three had something truly special. And I don't think Genie & Jonathan have been on-screen together since 1999!

 

I like this image for Tony's final scene.  Genie, Tony, Jonathan - and no one but JJ as Lucky for this story.   But, with the same reasoning as ulkis gives below, if JMB were still Lulu, I would like to see Tony's final scene end include her as well.   No offence to Emme, but she hasn't been around long enough and hasn't shared the depth of material to be anywhere near being considered as Tony's Luke's Lulu.

 

If JMB were still here as Lulu I'd be kinda grumpy at that notion but since she's not, I agree :)

I think actually Luke's last scene should be just him. Looking fondly at P.C. and admitting he actually likes the place

Edited May 31, 2015 by Aurora2

[ulkis]

I'm watching clips from around the time of Jake's death and I'm hoping that one of the things Geary has claimed he has let go of is the need to not label Luke an alcoholic. I hope before he leaves Luke admits it or someone else points it out.

[ulkis]

mini rant

 

Couldn't they have waited a couple of weeks to push back this cheating story? How fabulous would it have been to see Luke and Laura, Liz and Lucky, Lulu and Dante and the kids in one room? (no matter how much it made Tony Geary vomit because of the sentimentality) For Dante and Lulu to help out Luke and Laura? To find Lucky, their brother/friend? Instead, fucking nuDillon goes with them?!?! ugh.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yeah. I was totally rolling my eyes and snarling when Luke told Laura why Looloo shouldn't bring Dante into the know.  Like Dante would act like a cop and turn and bring all the cops into it. The man knows how to keep a sekrit.

 

Plus, who was it that insisted on following Dante to Ireland during the whole Balkan thing before they were married. Dante is so much smarter than PodDillon.

[ulkis]

Editing to add, I am not invoking real life, here. If a woman is raped and gives up her child and doesn't tell anyone she ever had that baby-that's her choice. We're not talking about that, here. We're talking about a woman who thought her gweatest twue wuv ever, was far more important than that baby.

 

 

I never said there wasn't anyone who didn't call her pathetic. Completely disagree she didn't feel Luke was more important. I think the fact that she didn't end any romantic relationship the first time Luke put his hands on her kid and called him all manner of names, proves for me who held more esteem in her eyes.

 

I was responding to the part where you said that she thought Luke was more important than her baby. Sure, 1996 Laura was wrong for tolerating Luke's crap re: Nikolas but in 1983 I don't think she was thinking "who gives a shit about my baby my man is way more important". And she tried to go back for him, but then Helena killed (or so she thought) her mother.

[Oracle42]

She couldn't have taken Nikolas with her, that was never an option and neither was remaining a perpetual captive - that isn't required of anyone, even on a soap.

Aside from which, the idea that Laura would keep this secret for Liz after the Lucky/Liz/Nik debacle is ridiculous

[dubbel zout]

I think Laura would be somewhat sympathetic to the situation in general, but she'd tell Liz to tell Jake everything. And I'd hope Laura would read Nik the riot act.

[ulkis]

I think there are certain circumstances under which

she would keep the Jake stuff quiet. Who knows though it's just a spumor at this point

[IWantCandy71]

Here's the thing: If she's supposed to be such a great mama bear mother, and in fact did not have a prejudice against Nikolas because of how he was conceived...why then, didn't she at least tell Luke about him right away? I'll tell you why-she was afraid he'd look at her differently, would hate her, would hate the kid, etc. Telling Luke would not have killed anyone. So, there's no other way to see it, than that she felt letting the truth out would change her relationship with him. If she's such a great mother, why didn't she light the torches and storm the castle ALONE, to get her baby back? With or without Luke or anyone else's help.

I'm really supposed to believe that Laura doesn't hold Nik in less esteem, when she couldn't even be bothered to tell her husband he existed, yet the minute Lucky gets kidnapped, she hops a plane to grab Luke and go get THAT kid?  A kid who is no longer a kid, who could probably save himself, as opposed to Nik, who was a defenseless baby at the time? I'm really supposed to believe Laura is such a great mama bear, but *gasp*  her mother was hurt, so no going to get Nikolas, he was just out of luck?

No.

I have no other alternative than to believe Luke was more important. The only other alternative is that she's just a crappy mother. Either way, she COULD have taken actions that she CHOSE not to take, and my interpretation is that it is because it was NOT Luke's kid. .

I mean really, if the story had been she was pregnant with Luke's child when she was kidnapped, does anyone here really believe she would have left without that child?

Or that she would not have immediately told Luke once she escaped, and that they wouldn't have moved Heaven and earth to get THAT kid back?

Of course she would have, of course THEY would have. But not for Nikolas, and him being a child of rape isn't so much what it is about, as it is that he was a CASSADINE.

Goodness gracious. Laura couldn't risk losing Luke over Stavros's spawn, could she? She chose her man over her kid. The evidence supports this. THAT makes her a crap mother. Among other things. That certainly is not the only reason. But my main statement was about what is in the spoiler thread, and how it is NOT OOC because of her almost two decade long secret of Nik's existence.

Edited July 1, 2015 by IWantCandy71