The Spencers: Foiling Plans for World Domination Since the 80s

[OnceSane]

Discuss Luke, Laura, Bobbie, Pat, Lucky, Lulu, Lucas, Valerie, and Ethan here (and, hell, Aunt Ruby, too)!

[ulkis]

Discuss Luke, Laura, Bobbie, Luckuy, Lulu, Lucas and Ethan here!

 

 

Who is that last person?

 

:)

[magnolia11]

Hey, at least Carly wasn't included ;)

[OnceSane]

Hey, at least Carly wasn't included ;)

LOL Only because she has her own thread.

[ulkis]

Sorry magnolia, but alas, Carly is way more of a Spencer than Teethan is :)

[Tiger]

Sorry magnolia, but alas, Carly is way more of a Spencer than Teethan is :)

I still want Ron to retcon Ethan out of existence.

Since Ron is so into camp, I'd love a scene with Luke, Lulu, Lucky, and Nik, and Luke asks a waitress named Susan to take a picture of "me and all my children ".

Edited January 26, 2015 by Tiger

[Chairperson Meow]

Lucas! You're the only Spencer I like.

Lucky cries too much. Lulu babies too much. Nik sleezes too much. Laura disappears too much. Luke is Fluke too much. Bobbie Carlys too much. Carly Sonnys too much.

That about leaves Lucas and BenRocco.

[SlovakPrincess]

Remember when Luke was an actual character, and not a constantly shifting mess of brooding petulance, drinking, split personalities and stupid accents?  Yeah, me either, it's been so long.

 

Luke was always shout-y and petulant and had a mix of arrogance / chip on his shoulder about having had a crappy, poverty-stricken childhood.  He's never been my favorite.  He did have his moments, though.  And in the '80s and '90s stories, even when I don't like what he's doing, I mostly find him interesting.  TG sometimes overacted too much for my taste, and I think he's somewhat overrated -- but when he got it right, he could really knock it out of the park.  

 

TG's particular brand of energy worked for the adventure stories in the '80s, which did give Luke the opportunity to be a reluctant hero, and to show concern for others.  Of course, being the big hero after saving Port Charles in the Ice Princess storyline makes him a bit insufferable, with everyone talking him up like he did it all by his lonesome.  But at times the show did allow Luke to look foolish, be wrong, appear vulnerable, and to have to be rescued by Robert or others.  

 

One of the funniest / dumbest things Luke ever did was - after getting temporarily paralyzed in an avalanche in '83 - refuse to come home or let anyone know he was okay until he knew he could walk again.  I guess it didn't occur to him that everyone would assume he was dead?  And then he gets all bent out of shape when Robert and Holly bond in their grief over him - and fall in love.  He eventually accepts that he's lost Holly to Robert and that he doesn't have a right to hold a grudge - but it sure takes him a while: 

 

Luke: How could you fall in love behind my back!  Holly is miiiiinnne!

Robert:  We thought you were dead!

Luke:  BETRAYAL!

Holly:  Ok, but you let us think you were dead! 

Luke: The hell with both of you terrible friends, I will run for mayor now so I can be elected mayor and then fire Robert as police commissioner!  Also, I won't tell Robert information he really needs about something I stumbled across that the WSB is urgently looking for.  SO THERE! 

Robert and Holly:  Wow.  Are you just not listening to us, or understanding logic, or ... seriously?

 

So grouchy, irrational, selfish Luke was always there underneath the surface.

 

In the '90s it seemed like Luke could get restless - and was far too impressed with Sonny for no reason I could see - but still wanted to be with Laura and loved his kids and could still be a good friend.  I guess we're supposed to think that the stuff with the Cassadines returning to PC, and Lucky finding out about the rape, Lucky's presumed death, and then Laura's fall into insanity (a terrible storyline that I've read about and am glad I missed), all added up and turned Luke into a bitter, cynical, guy.  Which I get, but does not make for a fun show or character.   

 

GH becoming increasingly "dark" throughout the 2000s really bled a lot of life out of a many of the characters, Luke being a prime example of that.  The Luke / Tracy relationship could have been a lot more interesting if it wasn't almost always about Tracy being played for a fool.  They never should have gone so far as to have Luke actually accidentally kill his own grandson.  Maybe if Jake had just been seriously hurt, that would have made whatever point the show was going for, without turning poor Lucky into a mess and destroying the father / son relationship completely.    

 

If nothing else, Luke is kind of a good barometer for the tone of the show.   Now that (in my view) the whole show has gone completely off the rails with perverse, convoluted plot lines that make no sense and dispense with any kind of focus on character development .... well, what better example of that than Fluke!

[ulkis]

They never should have gone so far as to have Luke actually accidentally kill his own grandson.  Maybe if Jake had just been seriously hurt, that would have made whatever point the show was going for, without turning poor Lucky into a mess and destroying the father / son relationship completely.

 

 

I thought Ron actually improved Luke a lot lately when he came on board, and that it made the Jake stuff acceptable  - Luke had stopped drinking, he was visiting Lulu at her home (before 2012 Luke had never actually stopped by at one of Lulu's residences since . . . ever? I don't remember him visiting her at the apartment she shared with Maxie but I don't really know pre-2009), he was making amends to Liz and Tracy. And then I blame Tony Geary for mucking it all up with his insistence on Luke drinking against the script.

 

Luke had actually really improved to when JJ as Lucky came back in 2009. All of a sudden he was like this wise old sage who was giving good advice without being too preachy. There's a scene that stands out in my mind that he has with Liz and then with Lulu after the affair with Nikolas is exposed - Liz comes to Luke to apologize and Lulu comes in and walks in on the conversation:

 

Luke: I'm an old-fashioned dude, Elizabeth. Ladies first. You're here to speak your piece, I'm here to listen.

Elizabeth: Okay. I owe you an apology. After you found out about me and Nikolas, I promised I would never see him again. And you know that was a lie. So for what it's worth, I'm really sorry.

Luke: Apology accepted.

Elizabeth: Really?

Luke: Yes. Did you think I was gonna throw it back in your face?

Elizabeth: Kind of, yeah.

Luke: No. There is no percentage in me raking you over the coals. It looks to me like you're doing a pretty good job of that yourself.

Elizabeth: I didn't even think you'd be able to look at me.

Luke: Well, don't get me wrong. You're not exactly my favorite person right now. The blow you dealt my son was pretty lethal. And that's not okay with me.

Elizabeth: I know.

Luke: But having said that, people make mistakes. Sometimes we get drawn into things without thinking about consequences, and that's just human. So the mistake that you made, it doesn't negate all the good you've done for Lucky through the years and all the love you've given him.

Elizabeth: I'm not quite sure what to say.

Lulu: Dad, I need to ask you a fav-- what are you doing talking to this lying piece of trash?

Elizabeth: You've already made it very clear what you think of me. I'm not gonna subject your dad to the inevitable encore. Thank you, Luke, for your compassion. It's more than I deserve.

Lulu: You got that right. Compassion? You were actually nice to that skank?

Luke: Oh, come on, Lulu. This wasn't a solo act. Where's your righteous indignation for Nikolas?

Lulu: Well, I'm mad at him, too, but this is Elizabeth's fault. She needed Lucky for security and to be a father to her kids, and she needed Nikolas to turn her on in bed. That's disgusting. I don't see how you're not so pissed off you can't even see it.

Luke: Because it doesn't do any good. I mean, what's the point? Yeah, it's a bad situation. It's damn ugly. But it's for Lucky and Elizabeth to figure out. And the rest of us throwing in our hostility and our judgment is not gonna help. Because the thing about judgment, cupcake, is it's a boomerang. And sooner or later, whoosh...whuh, whuh, whuh, whuh, whuh, whuh...it comes right back and smacks you in the face.

 

he doesn't give Liz a free pass but he's very smart about it. And it continued on that way for a while, probably really again until the Jake stuff, so about a year.

[Aurora2]

OK, so I'm a little bit traumatized this morning after seeing this question elsewhere: 

 

"Who is Lulu/Nikolas mother?

Found out today they are half siblings having the same Mother?"

 

When given a bare bones answer, the response was:

 

"Thanks for the reply and I have to admit the name *Laura* draws a blank. Is she still around, or passed?"

 

Whatever one thinks of Laura Spencer,  should not the audience at least be aware of who she is and that she has been an important presence of these Spencer lives which are being uprooted with this current Flukey mess?  

 

Or does giving Laura some context here not fit as one of RC's token checkpoints when he proclaims:to have given us a nod to GH history??? 

[ulkis]

That's definitely depressing, but to be fair, who knows how much that person pays attention, heh.

[Tiger]

And to be fair, Laura has been on-screen maybe a collective 8 months in the past 12 and a half years.

Think how different things might have been had Jill shown Genie the same courtesy she showed Tony. All she wanted was the summer off, when Tony was going to be off anyway. Sending L&L on an off-screen was too difficult. No, instead Laura had to be turned into a drooling loon.

SMH.

[KerleyQ]

OK, so I'm a little bit traumatized this morning after seeing this question elsewhere: 

 

"Who is Lulu/Nikolas mother?

Found out today they are half siblings having the same Mother?"

 

When given a bare bones answer, the response was:

 

"Thanks for the reply and I have to admit the name *Laura* draws a blank. Is she still around, or passed?"

 

Whatever one thinks of Laura Spencer,  should not the audience at least be aware of who she is and that she has been an important presence of these Spencer lives which are being uprooted with this current Flukey mess?  

 

Or does giving Laura some context here not fit as one of RC's token checkpoints when he proclaims:to have given us a nod to GH history??? 

 

Are we sure this wasn't Ron? 

[Aurora2]

Are we sure this wasn't Ron? 

 

LOL-  Good one!!  Could be. 

[dubbel zout]

Maybe if Jake had just been seriously hurt, that would have made whatever point the show was going for

The point of killing off Jake was so that the story could be all. about. Jason and his precious manpain.

 

he doesn't give Liz a free pass but he's very smart about it.

It helps that Luke wasn't one to meddle in his kids' private business in the first place. 

[Melgaypet]

The point of killing off Jake was so that the story could be all. about. Jason and his precious manpain.

 

That, and also proving that the mob life isn't really dangerous for children (Unlocked doors are so much worse! The true scourge of Port Charles!),  thus opening the door for a JaSam baby. And winning Geary another Emmy. And poorly ripping off a genuine masterpiece of a storyline. Blech. I hate everything about the Dead Jake story.

[ulkis]

There's a blurb from Carlivati in Soaps in Depth where he says they made Fluke Luke so they could tell a Spencer family story. oh, the sweet lies.

[HeatLifer]

JJ retweeted GH Twitter's TBT pic of Luke, Lucky, Laura. It made me grin and then want to throw things.

[ulkis]

aw. I wonder if someone told him about this story that's going on right now and he was just like whaaaat. I mean I'm sure Tony told him about it but Tony was probably just like "yes I finally get to play my evil side!" and JJ was just politely like, "I'm glad for you buddy." I hope someone else actually told him the crackpot aspect of it lol.

[HeatLifer]

Hahahaha. I can't even imagine how those around Tony are keeping the laughter at a minimum.

[LegalParrot81]

 

JJ retweeted GH Twitter's TBT pic of Luke, Lucky, Laura. It made me grin and then want to throw things.

 

Okay, step back, cuz I'm gonna rant.  

 

ABC/GH is more than willing to use Genie's image and splash it all over for publicity sake, but God forbid they actually treat the woman herself with some modicum of respect.  

 

Now that my rants over.....I repeat again....I loved that little family.

[HeatLifer]

SERIOUSLY. Not even a mention of Lucky or Laura. It makes me so freaking irritated.

[ulkis]

Hahahaha. I can't even imagine how those around Tony are keeping the laughter at a minimum.

 

I'm scared! What if they all thought it was amazing?? What if while Dominic laid on the floor he thought about how he was being treated to a master class in acting? accck.

 

I haven't thought Tony was horrible the whole time, and he's had a few good moments, but yeah overall when he is trying to be the super evil suave Luke? I cringe.

 

 

Okay, step back, cuz I'm gonna rant.  

 

ABC/GH is more than willing to use Genie's image and splash it all over for publicity sake, but God forbid they actually treat the woman herself with some modicum of respect.  

 

I mean, I do think  it's not all just on ABC's side. There's something going on there with Genie too probably, at least since Ron and Frank came aboard, because I do believe, unlike Guza/Frons/JFP, they would love to have her around. But it's Genie, if it's not the network interfering they should do whatever it takes to get her back. Maybe she's like "I am not going back there after that ridiculously stupid story I came back to last time." Can't blame her, heh.

[HeatLifer]

It's like when Tyler was talking about Mo being his acting mentor and I was like, "Oh, honey."

[LegalParrot81]

Ulkis, you're probably right, but I'm bitter.  LOL  

[UYI]

It's like when Tyler was talking about Mo being his acting mentor and I was like, "Oh, honey."

 

Taking this to the News thread.

Edited March 13, 2015 by UYI

[ulkis]

Ulkis, you're probably right, but I'm bitter.  LOL  

 

I don't blame you. :)

[UYI]

Bobbie confronts Luke after learning that Carly is her daughter. Brilliant acting by Jackie and Tony. I think this is also the last time the name of her ex-husband Jake Meyer has ever come up.

 

[Tiger]

What happened to THAT Tony Geary?!? It wasn't just that scene; he was so often brilliant in the 90's that when I watch the clips now it makes me sad when I see what his "acting" is now.

[UYI]

It may also be a case of who his acting partner is--I think Jackie is probably someone, maybe because of how long they've worked together/the particular connection they're characters have as siblings, where he knows he has to cut the bullshit in a scene with them (ditto people like JJ and GF). 

Edited March 24, 2015 by UYI

[TeeVee329]

I love how the scene ends, with Bobbie talking about a Thanksgiving in the future where Luke will look across the table at her and think all's forgiven and forgotten, but that it never will be.

[Oracle42]

Why did Luke think TG needed to go dark? He was already pretty dark. He helped pimp out his 14 year old sister and nothing in that scene sounded like an apology for any of the things he did 

Edited March 28, 2015 by Oracle42

[UYI]

Since it came up in the History thread, here's the rape scene in full:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pYHnE-gkDc

 

I'm not going to lie, I absolutely LOVE the song "Rise", even though the reason it became popular makes me super uncomfortable. It became a number one song shortly after this aired. One thing I always wondered, though, is what Herb Alpert thought about this song being used in this particular scene, as it's kind of hard not to think of it as some sort of rape anthem or something once you watch this (although the bass line was eventually on that song "Hypnotize" by the Notorious B.I.G., which I guess helped it a bit).

 

Obviously, he may have just thought "Sweet, my song's on TV", and left it at that, but I've always been curious. 

[Oracle42]

I wish Valerie had been Pat's granddaughter instead of a daughter. I know ages are handwaved all the time but it's distracting to think of a 50-something woman having a child and having Valerie as the granddaughter provides for the possible appearance of additional adult children and grandchildren from Patricia.

[ulkis]

Valerie looks around 30 to me . . . If Pat is supposed to be 70-75 that seems fine. I guess granddaughter could work too but in that case it would seem like Pat was a young grandmother. I dunno, it seems tricky.

[TeeVee329]

I also think they wanted Valerie and Lulu on the same level, if that makes sense.

[ulkis]

Yeah, it does.

[jsbt]

It's actually ridiculous how much younger Dee Wallace looks vs. Tony Geary, with Pat the supposedly considerably older sister. Jackie's plastic surgery isn't helping the case either. I love Dee, but they could well have gone for Lois Smith, who worked for Frank on OLTL as Aunt Betsy Cramer and who is a renowned star of stage and screen (and just did a great bit on The Americans). She's a wonderful actress, but old as hell and looks it!

Edited March 31, 2015 by jsbt

[ulkis]

Lulu, OTOH, is now just another young heroine who was relegated to making babies, wanting babies, getting kidnapped or being driven nuts at a young age. She used to be meant for more, to have more to her as a character and a woman, and that's what pisses me off. She's just a wife, mother and damsel now, and someone RC clearly is not very interested in if she isn't being 'wild.' Same thing happened to Jessica on OLTL, a similar character with a similar central legacy, but there Ron was able to keep her crazy and 'fun' for years, while the saner part of Jessica herself basically gave up on any job or life outside of motherhood or madness as well.

 

I don't disagree with any of that. I do think Ron has actually given her less mental health issues than Guza and what Garin Wolf was attempting to do (Lulu was too fragile to deal with being with a cop and could cause Lulu to go into a Laura-like coma. Say what?) That's something he definitely did not start, and it infuriated me worse under Guza. (Lulu is crazy because Laura is, because they're both wimmins! Meanwhile Lucky and fakeson are big strong men and can't inherit Laura's icky women brain problems!) 

 

Of course, Ron has given her much less to do in general. I would wish that Frank had gotten one of their "gets" for the role (and that's not a comment on Emme) just so Lulu would have gotten more to do, but she probably just would have ended up Jess 2.0, more than she already has, as you say.

[jsbt]

Yeah, the only reason Ron hasn't given her more mental health shit is because the audience violently rebelled against his attempt at a Jessica do-over a couple years ago. Since then he's completely lost what interest he had in the character, IMO. If he can't make her over into Wild Jess/Tess he doesn't give a shit - about her, or most young women on the show. I think they had hoped Emme Rylan would fill that sort of 'wild heroine' role well, but when the audience didn't like it they tossed her aside altogether.

 

I like ER quite a bit but I don't think the actress would make a difference. They gave Julie Berman fuck-all to do too.

[dubbel zout]

They gave Julie Berman fuck-all to do too.

Her Lulu had an abortion, remember?

[ulkis]

I like ER quite a bit but I don't think the actress would make a difference. They gave Julie Berman fuck-all to do too.

 

No, but that's cause they didn't get to "steal" Berman from another show. Who wants to use popular young GH actors like her, Herbst, Thompson, Zamprogna, Storms, when you can hire models like Paevey? I know technically Emme was from another show but she wasn't even on contract at that point, so I don't think they considered that much of a get. Maybe a small one.

Edited April 3, 2015 by ulkis

[dubbel zout]

Didn't they want a newbie but went with ER because they ultimately decided they needed someone who could jump into the story and not get overwhelmed? I seem to remember reading that ER's prior soap experience won out.

Edited April 3, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

Didn't they want a newbie but went with ER because they ultimately decided they needed someone who could jump into the story and not get overwhelmed? I seem to remember reading that ER's prior soap experience won out.

 

Yeah, but according to DZ they only auditioned about 10 girls before FV said he (Dom) would eat them all alive. First of all, 10 girls! That seems like nothing, but I don't know much about it.

 

Second, now it annoys me all over again because I didn't think about it at the time but it's another case of FV sticking in his damn oar again. He should have just let Teschner do his damn job.

Edited April 3, 2015 by ulkis

[jsbt]

ER was a somewhat popular young actress from two CBS soaps. Daytime Confidential and Jamey Giddens thought she was the greatest young star in the heavens at that time, and considered her some major get. I thought they overrated her on CBS, where I found her work too scattershot and flighty, but I always thought she was talented and I think she's done well with the utterly thankless test pattern work she is given as Lulu. She's shown a lot more maturity than she ever did in those other roles, but Ron has no interest in maturity or strong young women.

Edited April 3, 2015 by jsbt

[dubbel zout]

according to DZ they only auditioned about 10 girls before FV said he (Dom) would eat them all alive.

 

DZ doesn't sound like that kind of scene partner, but maybe they auditioned really green actors in order to "prove" the only person who was right was ER. (Not contradicting you, Ulkis.)

 

I don't think ER is that great, but as jsbt pointed out, she hasn't been given much to do.

[ulkis]

ER was a somewhat popular young actress from two CBS soaps. Daytime Confidential and Jamey Giddens thought she was the greatest young star in the heavens at that time, and considered her some major get. I thought they overrated her on CBS, where I found her work too scattershot and flighty, but I always thought she was talented and I think she's done well with the utterly thankless test pattern work she is given as Lulu. She's shown a lot more maturity than she ever did in those other roles, but Ron has no interest in maturity or strong young women.

 

Oh, it's not even that they ended up with Emme Rylan for me. But if they were originally planning to hire someone new - and I'm pretty sure at the time of the auditions ER had been off-contract at Y&R for a couple of months, so it's not like they wanted to hire her at first and she wasn't available - why give up after 10 actresses? Like I said, I don't know much about the casting process, so it doesn't seem like much, given the huge amount of people that must come to audition. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

 

I just checked, and ER had been fired from Y&R in September, and brought back on on a recurring basis in January 2013, right around when Steve Burton was hired from there. That was also around the time they were auditioning for Lulu. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but that probably had something to do with her hire as well. A minor steal for them, plus an actress who could handle soap pace and was decently popular.

 

I'm just pointing out, it's another instance of interfering in the casting process. Which of course is not unusual in his position but it's still annoying given that he doesn't have much of an eye for talent, imo. Even the person I've liked most - Bryan Craig - was picked partly because of Laura Wright.

DZ doesn't sound like that kind of scene partner, but maybe they auditioned really green actors in order to "prove" the only person who was right was ER. (Not contradicting you, Ulkis.)

 

I don't think ER is that great, but as jsbt pointed out, she hasn't been given much to do.

 

I don't think DZ meant that Frank was saying he was Stafford like, just that DZ was an experienced actor and all the actresses they auditioned, as you say, were green.

 

I don't think Frank would have said that just to prove ER was right for the role though. Who would he have to do that for?

Edited April 3, 2015 by ulkis

[jsbt]

I'm sure they thought of the steal, yes, and it's symptomatic of a larger problem. But unlike other instances, I don't think she was an out of the blue or left field choice for a new lead role (like, say, Michelle Stafford), and they also discarded her from the frontburner in record time.

 

There was also Frank and the Mikey Jerome Incident at OLTL, but I'll let someone else tell that story.

Edited April 3, 2015 by jsbt

[dubbel zout]

they also discarded her from the frontburner in record time.

 

Lulu was an amnesiac living with Milo. She deserved to be discarded from the frontburner in record time. Ugh, yet another terrible story that went on way too long with no ultimate payoff.

Edited April 3, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

Didn't that go on for only a month? I remember she got her memory on the last day of May. Must have been really awful for it to seem like it went on for so long (I wasn't watching much at the time), heh.