Monk - General Discussion

[Columbo]

I dislike any of the older episodes where Disher and Stottlemyer were being negative towards Monk. I much preferred when they all worked as a team.

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, Columbo said:

I dislike any of the older episodes where Disher and Stottlemyer were being negative towards Monk. I much preferred when they all worked as a team.

I hardly ever watch this show, so when I recently watched a few minutes of a very early episode in which that was the dynamic, I was taken aback - I had forgotten that.

[Fool to cry]

On 4/18/2022 at 6:56 AM, Columbo said:

I dislike any of the older episodes where Disher and Stottlemyer were being negative towards Monk. I much preferred when they all worked as a team.

 

On 4/18/2022 at 12:59 PM, Bastet said:

I hardly ever watch this show, so when I recently watched a few minutes of a very early episode in which that was the dynamic, I was taken aback - I had forgotten that.

Yeah they were really leaning into the "Inspector Lestrsade" analogy in the first season where there's this competitiveness between them. They really got a handle of their dynamic early in season 2 in the Mexico episode where Stottlemeyer gets a phone call saying Monk is dead and he calls him the bravest man he ever knew. Then when he gets a call that he's alive he goes "I hate him!" And then the episode when he has a fight with his wife and Monk invites him to stay at his place and they drive each other crazy. 

Another comparison I thought of: Sharona and Monk are like Roz and Frasier while Natalie and Monk are Daphne and Frasier(before she married Niles).

[LexieLily]

4 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

Another comparison I thought of: Sharona and Monk are like Roz and Frasier while Natalie and Monk are Daphne and Frasier(before she married Niles).

@Annber03 you are being summoned for your expertise :o).

The season one/early season two episodes have their place and do a lot to set the scene and tone of the series, but in terms of the Monk/Stottlemeyer relationship I choose to ignore them. The series works much better to have Monk and Leland as longtime friends. It grounds the show and explains why Leland put himself on the line personally and professionally for Monk like he did multiple times in multiple episodes.

Edited April 20, 2022 by LexieLily

[Annber03]

11 hours ago, LexieLily said:

@Annber03 you are being summoned for your expertise :o).

Ha, I appreciate you thinking of me with the "Frasier" comparison :D. Honestly, I'd never considered that before, but now that @Fool to cry mentions it...yeah. I can see where that fits. Which is kind of funny, considering Sharona's job as a healthcare worker is more in line with the kind of work Daphne did, but personality-wise, yeah, I think that comparison makes a lot of sense. I can definitely see Sharona and Roz hitting it off, same with Natalie and Daphne. And to tie this conversation back to Leland, he and Martin would get along famously. 

As for Leland and Monk's relationship, I agree that it is rather jarring at times to watch the early episodes and see how much more abrasive their interactions tend to be. But I know @LexieLily and I have talked about some theories as to why that would've been the case, especially given the events between the time of Trudy's death and the start of the show. 

Still, I agree that it is much nicer to see them interacting as old friends. Partly because it gives more layers to the moments when Leland does call Monk out on his behavior - yes, he's speaking to him as his captain, but it also shows he's not afraid to be honest with him as a friend, either, and I like that. And I think that's one of the main things Monk respects about him - he trusts him enough and knows him well enough to know that he won't steer him wrong. 

I think that's part of what makes watching him with Sharona and Natalie interesting as well. We got to see the different ways in which he trusted them, too, or had to learn to trust them. 

[andromeda331]

It also makes more sense for Leland and Monk to be old friends. Monk was on the police force for a long time. They would know each other Leland knew the Monk before and after Trudy. And he was there when Trudy died and saw what happened to Monk. He's also the one who found Sharona for him. It makes no sense after all that Leland would act like he didn't like Monk. 

Randy's doesn't make sense either. He most likely wasn't on the force when Monk was and probably arrived after Monk left. The only things he would know are the stories of him being really great but only knowing Monk had a break down and left. It makes sense he doesn't know Monk and can't image the guy with so many phobias once being really great detective. But the part that makes no sense is he would know the break down and Monk leaving was the result of his wife being murdered. Why be such a jerk to him when that's why he left? It makes no sense.

 

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Randy's doesn't make sense either. He most likely wasn't on the force when Monk was and probably arrived after Monk left. The only things he would know are the stories of him being really great but only knowing Monk had a break down and left. It makes sense he doesn't know Monk and can't image the guy with so many phobias once being really great detective. But the part that makes no sense is he would know the break down and Monk leaving was the result of his wife being murdered. Why be such a jerk to him when that's why he left? It makes no sense.

The only thing I can attribute that to is Randy wanting his boss' approval and respect so badly, especially in the early years, that seeing the other officers and especially Stottlemeyer acting that way with Monk gave him unintentional permission to do the same.

Randy was a recent hire when the show started, I don't think he was hired until after Monk left, and there might have been a little bit of 'new hire trying to fit in' part of it, too.

[Fool to cry]

If Bitty hadn't left we definitely would have gotten a flashback episode to Sharona first meeting Monk and their first case together. Natalie's first meeting with him was fun but it would have been interesting to see Monk in that near-catatonic state and see Sharona slowly bring him out of it. We only ever heard about it.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

If Bitty hadn't left we definitely would have gotten a flashback episode to Sharona first meeting Monk and their first case together. Natalie's first meeting with him was fun but it would have been interesting to see Monk in that near-catatonic state and see Sharona slowly bring him out of it. We only ever heard about it.

It would have been interesting to see how she was able to do that.

[chessiegal]

I've been trying to figure out the random references to Joey Heatherton on the show. It first stuck out to me on Mr. Monk and the Badge when at the end Stottlemyer tells him to exit the west? exit for a surprise where Natalie is waiting for him. He's disappointed it wasn't Joey Heatherton. I thought it must be an inside joke. Sometimes an IMDb trivia listing will include info like that, but it didn't. Yesterday I watched Mr. Monk Joins a Cult, and Leland tells Monk he is the most gullible person in the world, even Joey Heatherton thinks so. Monk is all - you know Joey Heatherton? Leland says yes. Turns out there is another reference to Heatherton in Season 3, Mr. Monk and the Panic Room. I looked at the IMDb pages for all three episodes. All written by different people. No mention of Heatherton. Maybe something to do with Breckman or even Tony? I'm coming up with nothing.

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, chessiegal said:

I've been trying to figure out the random references to Joey Heatherton on the show. It first stuck out to me on Mr. Monk and the Badge when at the end Stottlemeyer tells him to exit the west? exit for a surprise where Natalie is waiting for him. He's disappointed it wasn't Joey Heatherton. I thought it must be an inside joke. Sometimes an IMDb trivia listing will include info like that, but it didn't. Yesterday I watched Mr. Monk Joins a Cult, and Leland tells Monk he is the most gullible person in the world, even Joey Heatherton thinks so. Monk is all - you know Joey Heatherton? Leland says yes. Turns out there is another reference to Heatherton in Season 3, Mr. Monk and the Panic Room. I looked at the IMDb pages for all three episodes. All written by different people. No mention of Heatherton. Maybe something to do with Breckman or even Tony? I'm coming up with nothing.

I looked up her name and Joey Heatherton is an actual person; looks like she was an actress/dancer/singer and a sex symbol of the 60s and 70s. She performed on USO tours with Bob Hope. I can see Leland knowing and referencing her but she doesn't seem like Monk's style at all.

[chessiegal]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

I looked up her name and Joey Heatherton is an actual person; looks like she was an actress/dancer/singer and a sex symbol of the 60s and 70s. She performed on USO tours with Bob Hope. I can see Leland knowing and referencing her but she doesn't seem like Monk's style at all.

Oh, I know all that. I'm old enough to remember when she was semi-famous. I still can't figure why her name is brought up on at least 3 episodes. It's got to be an inside joke.

[fishcakes]

22 hours ago, chessiegal said:

I looked at the IMDb pages for all three episodes. All written by different people. No mention of Heatherton. Maybe something to do with Breckman or even Tony? I'm coming up with nothing.

This is hilarious to me that three different writers can remember that Monk has a crush on Joey Heatherton when so many other things on the show (his phobias, the timeline) are inconsistent, which I've just chalked up to different writers and an inattentive showrunner. Maybe Joey just has a psychosexual hold on all the men in that general age group.

[Fool to cry]

I felt bad for the kid actor who played Benji being unemployed after season 3.  He was natural and had good rapport with both Sharona and Monk. I guess we were at least spared seeing him go through awkward puberty with voice cracking and a growth spurt. Although now I'm realizing we missed the comic opportunity of Monk trying to talk to him about the bird and the bees, and possibly another mention of Joey Heatherton!

Edited April 29, 2022 by Fool to cry

[chessiegal]

Mr. Monk and the UFO. I've seen the episode before, but when Monk is wandering the desert, I thought, I wonder if we'll see Vasquez Rocks. Sure enough, they show up. Hollywood loves Vasquez Rocks. I first became aware of them in an episode of The Wild Wild West. Then noticed them in Star Trek and NCIS.

 

[shapeshifter]

40 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Mr. Monk and the UFO. I've seen the episode before, but when Monk is wandering the desert, I thought, I wonder if we'll see Vasquez Rocks. Sure enough, they show up. Hollywood loves Vasquez Rocks. I first became aware of them in an episode of The Wild Wild West. Then noticed them in Star Trek and NCIS.

Vasquez Rocks were a big deal in the OG Roswell too:

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by shapeshifter

[peacheslatour]

On 5/2/2022 at 12:21 PM, chessiegal said:

Mr. Monk and the UFO. I've seen the episode before, but when Monk is wandering the desert, I thought, I wonder if we'll see Vasquez Rocks. Sure enough, they show up. Hollywood loves Vasquez Rocks. I first became aware of them in an episode of The Wild Wild West. Then noticed them in Star Trek and NCIS.

Isn't it funny how almost every planet in the universe looks just like L.A. County?

[chessiegal]

Well, phooey. No Monk on Hallmark Movies & Mysteries because of their treacly Christmas movies through the end of June. Ugh! 😝

[tessaray]

Monk is available to stream on Peacock, though I'm not sure if it is on the free version.

[shapeshifter]

On 6/24/2022 at 3:26 PM, chessiegal said:

Well, phooey. No Monk on Hallmark Movies & Mysteries because of their treacly Christmas movies through the end of June. Ugh! 😝

3 hours ago, tessaray said:

Monk is available to stream on Peacock, though I'm not sure if it is on the free version.

I just checked my free version of Peacock and I was able to stream 1.1 and the last episode of the last season, so, yay!

[chessiegal]

I know I can find Monk elsewhere. I just like being able to tune into it as something to watch, Hallmark Movies & Mysteries channel keeps moving the time it's on. Recently they went from 3 shows to four, showing it from 3 pm to 7 pm, which makes it to time to watch Jeopardy! for me at 7 pm.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, chessiegal said:

I know I can find Monk elsewhere. I just like being able to tune into it as something to watch . . .

I'm like that too. 😄

[andromeda331]

On 6/27/2022 at 7:52 AM, chessiegal said:

I know I can find Monk elsewhere. I just like being able to tune into it as something to watch, Hallmark Movies & Mysteries channel keeps moving the time it's on. Recently they went from 3 shows to four, showing it from 3 pm to 7 pm, which makes it to time to watch Jeopardy! for me at 7 pm.

Me too. I'd much rather do that or DVR then stream. I only mostly go to streaming when I can't find old shows on TV. 

[chessiegal]

Damn, Tony Shahloub is a very good actor. He owns Monk.

[fishcakes]

On 7/5/2022 at 3:17 PM, chessiegal said:

Damn, Tony Shahloub is a very good actor. He owns Monk.

I just adore him. He was the best part of Wings, in my opinion (though Thomas Haden Church was a pretty close second). Since discovering Monk, I've watched a few of his movies (Barton Fink, Too Big To Fail, The Man Who Wasn't There), and they're mostly small parts, but he's always very good. I was also surprised to see him in a Frasier rerun a few weeks ago and he was hilarious.

That Monk was originally written with Michael Richards in mind is one of those, "oh thank goodness we dodged that bullet" ideas. I can't see Richards putting any heart into the character; he would have been weird and annoying as Monk.

[chessiegal]

3 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

That Monk was originally written with Michael Richards in mind is one of those, "oh thank goodness we dodged that bullet" ideas. I can't see Richards putting any heart into the character; he would have been weird and annoying as Monk.

So true!

[Browncoat]

7 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Since discovering Monk, I've watched a few of his movies (Barton Fink, Too Big To Fail, The Man Who Wasn't There), and they're mostly small parts, but he's always very good.

Might I recommend The Big Night, and The Impostors?  The Impostors, particularly, is a hidden gem of a movie, with an outstanding cast.

[shapeshifter]

Tony Shaloub is also a regular in The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel on Amazon Prime, which allows remote family member login. I'm not sure how many family members; it's just one of my daughters and me using her account.

[Annber03]

27 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I just adore him. He was the best part of Wings, in my opinion (though Thomas Haden Church was a pretty close second). Since discovering Monk, I've watched a few of his movies (Barton Fink, Too Big To Fail, The Man Who Wasn't There), and they're mostly small parts, but he's always very good. I was also surprised to see him in a Frasier rerun a few weeks ago and he was hilarious.

Oh, god, that "Frasier" episode...I both like it and feel so, so bad for Shalhoub's poor character in that one. Frasier is...A LOT in that episode :p. But yes, he's great in it. 

And yes to him on "Wings", too. He was hilarious on that show. I remember reading somewhere once that he was originally just going to have a one-episode guest spot on that show, an episode in season 2 where he's a waiter at a restaurant Helen goes to. But apparently the creators and whatnot liked him so much that they decided to make him a series regular starting the next season. Wise move on their part :). 

[Door County Cherry]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Tony Shaloub is also a regular in The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel on Amazon Prime, which allows remote family member login. I'm not sure how many family members; it's just one of my daughters and me using her account.

I watched the first season.  This one I can't do for Shaloub. 

[chessiegal]

16 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

I watched the first season.  This one I can't do for Shaloub. 

The Palladinos aren't everyone's cup of tea. For me, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is worth it for the costumes alone. But then, I'm a huge Gilmore Girls fan.

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Might I recommend The Big Night, and The Impostors?  The Impostors, particularly, is a hidden gem of a movie, with an outstanding cast.

Big Night is my favorite of those two, but I agree both are gems.  And both also feature Stanley Tucci and Allison Janney (Shalhoub, Tucci, and Janney are long-time friends, and I wish she'd made an appearance on Monk), among others, so you can't go wrong.

[tessaray]

TS was also great in a one-off CBS summer series called BrainDead. I think it's probably on Paramount+. But my favorite is Galaxy Quest.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Oh, god, that "Frasier" episode...I both like it and feel so, so bad for Shalhoub's poor character in that one. Frasier is...A LOT in that episode :p. But yes, he's great in it. 

And yes to him on "Wings", too. He was hilarious on that show. I remember reading somewhere once that he was originally just going to have a one-episode guest spot on that show, an episode in season 2 where he's a waiter at a restaurant Helen goes to. But apparently the creators and whatnot liked him so much that they decided to make him a series regular starting the next season. Wise move on their part :). 

Yeah, poor, poor Monk. 

[Door County Cherry]

6 hours ago, chessiegal said:

The Palladinos aren't everyone's cup of tea. For me, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is worth it for the costumes alone. But then, I'm a huge Gilmore Girls fan.

Yeah. I've definitely tried them.  The closest I came to liking them was Bunheads but even I peaced out of that one. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, tessaray said:

TS was also great in a one-off CBS summer series called BrainDead. I think it's probably on Paramount+

Thanks! I just checked, and BrainDead is indeed on Paramount+.
I really should rewatch it!
I was so surprised BrainDead (2016) wasn't continued, but I was on chemo and had a 6 hour surgery that wiped out a bunch of short term memory, so perhaps it wasn't as fantastic as I thought it was? 

13 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Oh, god, that "Frasier" episode...I both like it and feel so, so bad for Shalhoub's poor character in that one. Frasier is...A LOT in that episode :p. But yes, he's great in it. 

The Frasier episode is 3.23 "The Focus Group." I may have to watch that too.

[tessaray]

48 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Thanks! I just checked, and BrainDead is indeed on Paramount+.
I really should rewatch it!
I was so surprised BrainDead (2016) wasn't continued, but I was on chemo and had a 6 hour surgery that wiped out a bunch of short term memory, so perhaps it wasn't as fantastic as I thought it was

For some reason people just didn't watch a weird AF, sci-fi political comedy. 🤷‍♀️

Personally I loved the combination but it's not everyone's cup of tea. 🙂 And tbf, the 2016 election did make comedy awkward afterwards. Tony Shaloub is always good though. 

[Browncoat]

I loved Brain Dead, but was actually happy they quit while they were ahead.  I feel like it was one of those things that was perfect as it was, and didn’t need to be continued.

[Annber03]

I should check out "BrainDead" because it's from the Kings, who also made "Evil", which I love. Knowing Shalhoub is in it just adds to my interest in giving it a look. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I should check out "BrainDead"

There's actually a topic for BrainDead, for current discussion. At the top of the topic page is a link to the archived/vaulted forum. It was very active when the show aired in 2016. 

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

There's actually a topic for BrainDead, for current discussion. At the top of the topic page is a link to the archived/vaulted forum. It was very active when the show aired in 2016. 

Oh, nice, thanks for letting me know :). I'll keep that in mind for when I do check out the show, it'd be fun to chat about it with others here :). 

[LexieLily]

On 7/6/2022 at 5:48 PM, fishcakes said:

That Monk was originally written with Michael Richards in mind is one of those, "oh thank goodness we dodged that bullet" ideas. I can't see Richards putting any heart into the character; he would have been weird and annoying as Monk.

I also read somewhere that Tony Shalhoub was considered for Kramer on Seinfeld, the role that went to Michael Richards. 

[christie]

On 7/7/2022 at 1:48 AM, fishcakes said:

That Monk was originally written with Michael Richards in mind is one of those, "oh thank goodness we dodged that bullet" ideas. I can't see Richards putting any heart into the character; he would have been weird and annoying as Monk.

I honestly can't imagine anyone else in this role; Tony Shalhoub really made this role his own and, despite the fact that I've seen him in other things, he will always be Monk to me. He put a lot of heart into the role and made Monk likeable despite his quirks and obvious flaws.

[Bastet]

Yeah, Monk is a selfish jackass at times (both Sharona and Natalie had times where they'd have been completely justified in saying "Fuck this, I quit"), so if he was played by someone like Richards, it would be a completely different - and unpleasant - show.

[LexieLily]

I haven't watched Seinfeld or anything Michael Richards was in so I don't have a point of reference for how he is as an actor but I agree with @christie and @Bastet. Even in the episodes where Monk was being extra selfish, there was more than enough goodness in him that you understood why he had friends that were so loyal to him. It wasn't just the fact that he was a detective wunderkind that made Leland give Monk so many chances. 

[fishcakes]

I noticed that Natalie was wearing Christian Louboutin shoes in an episode I saw the other day. I can't remember which one, but I noticed the flash of red on the soles as she was walking away. At the time, those cost around $600 a pair (they're 800 or 900 now). It was kind of strange that in the later seasons, they started dressing her in obviously expensive clothing and it was mostly stuff that wasn't really suited for her job, like pencil skirts and stillettos. She looked great, but hardly the thing to be wearing while trudging around at crime scenes or while reorganizing Mr. Monk's cabinets. They also started giving her a new car every few episodes. I don't get why they'd do that since her story was "underpaid single mom who refuses to take money from her rich family."

Edited July 14, 2022 by fishcakes

[shapeshifter]

45 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I noticed that Natalie was wearing Christian Louboutin shoes in an episode I saw the other day. I can't remember which one, but I noticed the flash of red on the soles as she was walking away. At the time, those cost around $600 a pair (they're 800 or 900 now). It was kind of strange the way the way in the later seasons, they started dressing her in obviously expensive clothing and it was mostly stuff that wasn't really suited for her job, like pencil skirts and stillettos. She looked great, but hardly the thing to be wearing while trudging around at crime scenes or while reorganizing Mr. Monk's cabinets. They also started giving her a new car every few episodes. I don't get why they'd do that since her story was "underpaid single mom who refuses to take money from her rich family."

We first meet Natalie in 3.10 "Mr. Monk and the Red Herring" but I think it’s not until 4.7 "Mr. Monk Goes to a Wedding" that it was revealed that Natalie had rich parents, right?

After that reveal/almost-retcon I don’t think Natalie’s story includes any serious financial woes.

At the end of "Mr. Monk Goes to a Wedding" Natalie’s mother seems to have come to appreciate and even respect Natalie for her part in saving her brother’s life and perhaps the family’s fortune and reputation.

But, yeah, it did bug a bit, especially for those struggling single parents watching (moi).

However, designer shoes can be bought at Norsdstrom Rack when they have their shoe sales, or at thrift stores or at the annual big rummage sales in an upscale neighborhood. (My daughter did once or twice.)

But I don’t recall Natalie ever having a new car.  
Are you maybe thinking of the episode when she wrecked the Captain’s new car, 6.13 "Mr. Monk and the Three Julies"?

🤷‍♀️ 👠

Edited July 14, 2022 by shapeshifter

[chessiegal]

Natalie drove at least 2 different cars during the series, IIRC. I think one was a Volvo - nothing to sneeze at.

[fishcakes]

It was Sharona who had the Volvo. It was older (I think -- it's hard to tell with Volvos because the style changes so slowly) and always breaking down.

I only remembered the first four, but according the wiki, Natalie had six cars:

Quote

From Season 3 to the first half of Season 5, she drives a silver Jeep Grand Cherokee. Midway through Season 5, she switches to a Buick Lucerne. In Season 6, she starts driving a 2006 Ford Escape. During the first half of Season 7, Natalie drives an Audi A3. She then drives a Nissan Sentra for three episodes.[1] For the rest of the series, Natalie drives a Hyundai Genesis.

It also says she often wears Louboutins but I only noticed it the one time.

[andromeda331]

That's a lot of cars.