S03.E10: Left Behind

[Chaser]

I read the comments on the EW recap and WOW. They really did go after Felicity. The logic behind it doesn't even make sense. She is insult to Oliver's memory. She is disrespecting Diggle and Roy and Ray. She is flying off the handle and making horrible choices that are going to get people killed. Seriously? Laurel is being strong and they should look to her. What? 

 

I got two things from those comments. One) A lot of the those comments were the same people over and over gain - I pretty sure one guy hating on Felicity had 50 posts to his name. Two) People don't like it when woman cry on the show. Justifiable or not. Felicity was emotional so she was annoying. Laurel was not so she was strong.

[dtissagirl]

I read the comments on the EW recap and WOW. They really did go after Felicity. The logic behind it doesn't even make sense. She is insult to Oliver's memory. She is disrespecting Diggle and Roy and Ray. She is flying off the handle and making horrible choices that are going to get people killed. Seriously?

How dare the puny blonde girl disagree with the humans with penises, HOW DARE SHE NOT RESPECT THE PENISES.

Are these folks watching the show from the 1940s? They are, aren't they? Somehow Felicity's awesomeness opened a rift in the time-space continuum and these people got time shifted. It's the only possible explanation.

Edited January 23, 2015 by dancingnancy

[foreverevolving]

Something I realized may have been a first on the show (and we're too many pages in for me to remember if anyone mentioned it): Felicity stating her relationship with Oliver is anything but platonic, and in a round about way saying or implying she loves him, during her conversation with Ray after Malcolm second visit.

 

Also, I don't know if I mentioned this: brainwahsed or not: Thea still kicks ass as a fighter better than laurel. bringing out of hiding that second sword when she was fighting with Malcolm.. beautiful.

[Menrva]

How dare the puny blonde girl disagree with the humans with penises, HOW DARE SHE NOT RESPECT THE PENISES.

Are these folks watching the show from the 1940s? They are, aren't they? Somehow Felicity's awesomeness opened a rift in the time-space continuum and these people got time shifted. It's the only possible explanation.

It's like all the SSR agents from Agent Carter showed up. Those hysterical females with their emotions and uteruses and common sense! How dare they grieve for their loved ones and want to save the friends they still have! 

Edited January 23, 2015 by Menrva

[wonderwall]

I read the comments on the EW recap and WOW. They really did go after Felicity. The logic behind it doesn't even make sense. She is insult to Oliver's memory. She is disrespecting Diggle and Roy and Ray. She is flying off the handle and making horrible choices that are going to get people killed. Seriously? Laurel is being strong and they should look to her. What? 

 

I got two things from those comments. One) A lot of the those comments were the same people over and over gain - I pretty sure one guy hating on Felicity had 50 posts to his name. Two) People don't like it when woman cry on the show. Justifiable or not. Felicity was emotional so she was annoying. Laurel was not so she was strong.

 

Oh yeah, I was on that yesterday trying to show this one guy DMAC that he was being ridiculous with his claims that Felicity was being selfish and weak and that people were making her grief more than others or whatever and I think in the end I succeeded because he did concede that his point was ridiculous and he was being a bit hypocritical. 

[Chaser]

Oh yeah, I was on that yesterday trying to show this one guy DMAC that he was being ridiculous with his claims that Felicity was being selfish and weak and that people were making her grief more than others or whatever and I think in the end I succeeded because he did concede that his point was ridiculous and he was being a bit hypocritical. 

He was the guy with 50 posts! I wanted to punch him so bad! He and one other one were just looking to jump on anything slightly negative about Felicity and blow it up.

 

How dare the puny blonde girl disagree with the humans with penises, HOW DARE SHE NOT RESPECT THE PENISES.

Are these folks watching the show from the 1940s? They are, aren't they? Somehow Felicity's awesomeness opened a rift in the time-space continuum and these people got time shifted. It's the only possible explanation.

 

No but really. It's sad. No one was even suggesting that Diggle was emotionally compromised (I hear that in Spocks voice). Diggle walked out on the end, not sure if he wants to continue. But it was FELICITY who was weak for leaving. 

 

I'm going to need a Diggle and Felicity scene that makes up for their last one. Its time Felicity went to dinner at Diggle's house. Can they both admit they were too emotional to handle everything? 

 

ETA: I'm no fan of Laurel at all. But that attitude flying around made me want to defend her rash choices in 'Sara.' 

Edited January 23, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[looptab]

I expected a different scene between Diggle and Felicity after hearing the news. She pretty muche fled. I just wanted the two of them to hug it out :(

 

but advertising that would've brought more people in because they're loved, so the lack of marketing is odd.

 

This. I agree that they might think Felicity needs less advertising than others, but it was definitely a bizarre choice. Maybe they were forced into it by the costume pics leaking.  I think they would have advertised the rise of LL for the next ep, but maybe having to do damage control for that accident changed their plans? IDK

[catrox14]

I would argue that Laurel reacted just as emotionally to Sara's death when she literally strong armed that poor criminal in the hospital and then decided that boxing and becoming a vigilante was a good response to her emotions.  But I guess since that was physical violence based on emotion that was okay for some of the fellas whereas Felicity used her intellect in response to her emotional reaction.

 

I don't get it at all. 

[KirkB]

Nothing Laurel is doing this season makes sense to me, but then again neither does anything Malcolm is doing. 

[Shanna]

No but really. It's sad. No one was even suggesting that Diggle was emotionally compromised (I hear that in Spocks voice). Diggle walked out on the end, not sure if he wants to continue. But it was FELICITY who was weak for leaving.

I'm going to need a Diggle and Felicity scene that makes up for their last one. Its time Felicity went to dinner at Diggle's house. Can they both admit they were too emotional to handle everything?

'

I loved the hell out of the small scene when Diggle had his hand on Felicitys arm when she was sitting at the computer...I could hardly watch the Diggle/laurel scene because I wanted it to be with felicity! I am thinking, though, that they dont want to talk to each other about it because it makes it to real. Which is why they talked to ray and laurel, respectively.

It's like all the SSR agents from Agent Carter showed up. Those hysterical females with their emotions and uteruses and common sense! How dare they grieve for their loved ones and want to save the friends they still have!

Lol! Edited January 23, 2015 by Shanna

[catrox14]

Nothing Laurel is doing this season makes sense to me, but then again neither does anything Malcolm is doing. 

 

But at least with Malcolm there has been a precedence set that he is likely pulling some major shenanigans because he's done it before.  We know he's a skeevy, manipulative, lying liar that lies and that he has an end game of some kind here. Even if that endgame is trying to get Oliver to like him and be a replacement son.  He thought Tommy was kind of a loser but IMO he did love Tommy. And I think on some level he loves Oliver and Thea.  Now, he's an asshole but he's an entertaining asshole IMO. I think he's lonely and afraid of the LoA and really was trying to save Oliver.  He doesn't deserve the love but he wants it IMO.

Edited January 23, 2015 by catrox14

[Carrie Ann]

Nothing Laurel is doing this season makes sense to me, but then again neither does anything Malcolm is doing. 

 

Okay, can we talk about this? Because I was sort of holding onto hope that we'd get some indication in this episode of a twist in Malcolm's plan that made it all make sense, but instead we got the opposite. So let's lay this out:

 

Step 1: During the hiatus, Malcolm goes back to Starling City, presumably to lure Sara there (or the LOA generally)?

Step 2: Malcolm returns to SC with Thea, waits a few days, then drugs Thea and has her kill Sara.

Step 3: Malcolm and Thea return to Corto Maltese and hang out there for another week or so until TA finally get around to tracking Thea down.

Step 4: Malcolm comes back to Starling, apparently to allow the LOA to track him there and try to kill him so that Oliver will protect him???

Step 5: Malcolm hangs out and waits for a month or so.

Step 6: TA finally isolates DNA and identifies it as coming from a Queen; Malcolm comes out of hiding to tell Oliver about Thea.

Step 7: Malcolm did all of this so that Oliver would go fight his battle for him, so that IF Oliver killed Ra's al Ghul, then the death warrant against him by the LOA would be lifted.

 

Ok, there are so many problems with this plan, but let's go into some of the biggest ones:

-WHY would Malcolm wait to just reveal this whole plan to Oliver? How does it benefit him to put that off for two months? It doesn't, it only benefits the plot.

-Did it have to be Sara who died? Couldn't it have just been any LOA member?

-WHY would Malcolm think that Oliver could kill Ra's al Ghul, if he himself could not? He clearly believes himself to be more skilled than Oliver, and he's probably right, at least when it comes to swords. This makes absolutely no sense.

-Why would the LOA lift the death warrant if Oliver had killed Ra's al Ghul? Would Oliver just become the de facto leader at that point? 

-What was his contingency plan?

[looptab]

-Why would the LOA lift the death warrant if Oliver had killed Ra's al Ghul? Would Oliver just become the de facto leader at that point? 

 

I can only answer to this one. He said in The Climb that if Ra's lost the duel, all the blood debts would be erased, or something.

For all the other questions, there is no logic answer. :/

Edited January 23, 2015 by looptab

[quarks]

I don't think Malcolm has a very strong grasp of "logic" or "sense" right now.  

[Carrie Ann]

I can only answer to this one. He said in The Climb that if Ra's lost the duel, all the blood debts would be erased, or something.

For all the other questions, there is no logic answer. :/

 

All the blood debts in general? Or Malcolm/Thea's, because Oliver would erase it?

 

I mean, this is only the central plot of the season, why go into detail, right?

[romantic idiot]

Malcolm said it would release all blood debts, I believe. Basically the new Ra's starts with a fresh slate. Which makes sense. Except when you realise that the next Ra's will be Nyssa or rather the new Demon's Head will be Nyssa, and it's even less likely that she'll let Sara's death go. Stupid, stupid, stupid. 

[Chaser]

Here's what I can't figure out. It's a battle to the death. So Malcolm must be thinking "Hey Oliver kills Ra's I'm in the clear." But If Oliver won, then he would be the new leader of the LOA…correct? Why would Malcolm think he would be safe from Oliver at that point?

[statsgirl]

Random thought in the shower this morning -- the new form of Vertigo makes you hallucinate your worst nightmare.  There's no point to giving it to Felicity who recently lost both Sara and Oliver.  In that scene when she's watching Roy and Diggle in the warehouse, worrying they could be dead and unable to to anything to help them, she's living hers.

 

The show rarely take the time to show how hard it must be for Felicity when her boys are in danger, glued to her monitors back in the foundry and unable to be there to help them.  I've read a couple of fanfics that do it well, get into her head at those time, but the show itself rarely goes there.  No stunts, probably. 

 

In terms of why didn't she stop them from going out in the first place, probably a combination of working on automatic pilot and thinking they could get the job done.  Like she said when they got back, Oliver would have got them out but Oliver's not there any more and it took seeing Roy and Diggle get their asses kicked to make her realize that.

 

I thought it was a good idea to make this an episode about everyone connected with Oliver and especially Team Arrow.  But it was a mistake to give the impression that it was the start of the Laurel trilogy because that probably turned a number of people off it.

 

 

The lights - that's not such a big deal to me. The one thing I did think was that I thought it would have been more effective just to leave Diggle and Roy standing there alone. I thought that shot, before the lights went out, made the point just as well or better. I understand the symbolism with her comment earlier about keeping the lights on, but visually, it just didn't play so well for me. *shrugs* Judging from the comments I'm in a minority on this though. :)

I'd like to have seen a cut like that, just to see which would have worked better. It may have been that 'less is more' in that situation; it certainly would have been better to cut the "I am the Justice" line and just have Laurel's scene parallel Roy's.

 

I assume that Sara's things were laid out on the table because they (that is, Felicity) were still investigating her murder but on screen, it looked absurd.  They should have done something like 'Laurel, realizing Oliver is dead, goes over to the cabinet where Sara's things are, remembering her, and gets an idea....'.

 

I read the comments on the EW recap and WOW. They really did go after Felicity. 

The writer of the review, who seems like a nice guy, tweeted that the Felicity hate in the comments made him uncomfortable.

 

 

Ok, there are so many problems with this plan, but let's go into some of the biggest ones:

-WHY would Malcolm wait to just reveal this whole plan to Oliver? How does it benefit him to put that off for two months? It doesn't, it only benefits the plot.

-Did it have to be Sara who died? Couldn't it have just been any LOA member?

-WHY would Malcolm think that Oliver could kill Ra's al Ghul, if he himself could not? He clearly believes himself to be more skilled than Oliver, and he's probably right, at least when it comes to swords. This makes absolutely no sense.

-Why would the LOA lift the death warrant if Oliver had killed Ra's al Ghul? Would Oliver just become the de facto leader at that point? 

-What was his contingency plan?

To try to answer:

1.   It benefits Malcolm to wait because Oliver has less time to figure something else out. Basically, he has to go with Malcolm's plan because there's nothing else he can set up or investigate.

2.  It could have been any old LoA assassin but by being Sara, it creates more conflict in Oliver and Team Arrow.  They loved Sara and event though they know Thea was brainwashed (if she was), it would be hard to get rid of all blame for killing her.  They may even be reluctant to welcome Thea to Team Arrow and keep their distance, thus giving Malcolm more of a hold over her.

3.  I have no clue as to why Malcolm thought Oliver could kill Ra's when he himself could not, and even less as to why Malcolm didn't try to do something to fix the fight to help Oliver win.

4. I think someone else from the LoA would take over, like the Heir to the Demon herself. 

[Carrie Ann]

1.   It benefits Malcolm to wait because Oliver has less time to figure something else out. Basically, he has to go with Malcolm's plan because there's nothing else he can set up or investigate. 

 

I still don't understand how that works with Malcolm's ultimate goal to erase his blood debt with Ra's. The point was supposed to be that it was an inescapable trap. Thea and Malcolm killed Sara, and the LOA doesn't care about nuance, so they're going to come after both of them, and Oliver would fight to protect Thea no matter what. If he had found this out two months earlier, he would still have gone to do that, right? I don't really see what he could have come up with in the meantime to avoid that, but I guess it's the only explanation that makes any sense.

[tv echo]

Felicity turning off the lights is clearly symbolic and the crap she's getting over that action is much ado about nothing.

 

But all the crap that Felicity is getting for stopping Diggle and Roy from going after Brick is unwarranted, in my opinion, for two reasons:  (1) her action was actually a rational decision (the one that Oliver would've made), and (2) any fall-out from that decision in terms of future lives lost or crimes committed should be blamed on Malcolm, not Felicity.

 

1.  The choice wasn't between saving Diggle & Roy or saving a lot of other people in the future.  The choice was between saving Diggle & Roy or not saving them, but in either case, Brick still would've gotten away with the evidence.  If she hadn't stopped them, Diggle & Roy would've likely died, Brick still would've gotten away, and you still wouldn't have saved people in the future.  Plus you'd have lost two crimefighters.  Yes, it was protective, but if Oliver had been injured and leading from the Arrowcave, he would've seen that Diggle/Roy were clearly outgunned and told them to stop and regroup.  It required a split second decision by the leader.  In Oliver's absence, Felicity made that call.  She didn't have time to discuss it in committee.  It wasn't a weak action, it was a strong action.  But it seems like the EPs  want us to perceive it as an irrational, grief-motivated decision, which will have crime-ridden consequences.

 

2.   If Oliver had been there, then he, Diggle and Roy would've had a good chance to stop Brick.  Without Oliver, Diggle and Roy couldn't succeed.  So if anyone is to blame for Brick getting away and for wasting all those months of Oliver's efforts in collecting evidence, then blame Malcolm.  Malcolm is the one who drugged Thea and got her to kill Sara, setting this whole chain of events into play that resulted in Oliver having to leave the city, fight Ra's, and "die", leaving Team Arrow short-handed and without their leader.

[tv echo]

the-alex-snow asked:

Who's idea was it for Felicity to go through the five stages of grief or was that all Emily?

 

That’s how it was written, but Emily brought much to that particular episode.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/

Edited January 23, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

Another random thought... why didn't they inject Oliver with some type of biometric GPS tracker. That would have saved a whole lot of trouble. Even if he thought he might survive it would still be nice to be able to track him from time to time, just like they did when he had it in his boot. It just seems like Oliver should have had a better contingency plan going in.

 

Unless of course there is no type of reception on the secret sacred cliff. It does seem very desolate. Amazing scenery shots. Gotta say those were some of my fav scenes. It was so majestic to look at until you realized how treacherous it is.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Another random thought... why didn't they inject Oliver with some type of biometric GPS tracker. That would have saved a whole lot of trouble.

 

 

That very idea was proposed here in this forum.  There was a spoiler that Felicity wouldn't be looking for Oliver because she knew where he was and where he wasn't, so people here thought that maybe she had planted a tracker on him. Maybe MG should take story advice from us...things would probably make a lot more sense.

Edited January 23, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[looptab]

It's a really idiot thing like them not knowing where the fight took place, Oliver not telling them. Why wouldn't he tell them? lol

But probably if people acted like normal people there would be no show.

[kismet]

In regards to Felicity, EBR is getting overall rave reviews from the TPTB & recap/review writers so I think that is the most important thing. Although fan rxn is important I don't think it holds that much weight so long as people continue to watch. The opposite if love is not anger its apathy. So as long as people are passionate & it continues to bring revenue, TPTB will be content with the EP & writers work.

 

IMO, the writers tend to throw wrenches in the characters plot & development, even under buses as some people might say. Its sometimes how they write the characters with dangling actions or poorly describe motivations/intentions. They sorta walk the line on many character decisions. Im not sure if they do it to keep fans watching or guessing, if it is a comic book type thing. But they keep it vague, and then generally in the next few episodes resolve it or explain it. I watched the episode twice, the first time everything felt like it was somehow emotionally charged, but on the 2nd time their decisions although still influenced by emotion, they were pragmatic in the moment. Its all the layering that this show does. Characters will likely be closer to their true selves next week, and there will be some type of resolution that will explain the last few minutes of Team Arrow's convo. Just like we got a resolution btwn Ray & Felicity.

[AyChihuahua]

 

I read the comments on the EW recap and WOW. They really did go after Felicity. The logic behind it doesn't even make sense. She is insult to Oliver's memory. She is disrespecting Diggle and Roy and Ray. She is flying off the handle and making horrible choices that are going to get people killed. Seriously? Laurel is being strong and they should look to her. What?

 

The EW comments were nutbars.  Simultaneously calling her weak and pathetic, and a perfect Mary Sue.  So they hate her for being perfect and everyone loving her, and they hate her for being weak and pathetic.  It seems the EPs overestimated Felicity's charms when they thought she could strangle a kitten and still be loved.

[catrox14]

Who knew it would be compentency and humanity that would do in Felicity!

[jay741982]

The EW comments were nutbars.  Simultaneously calling her weak and pathetic, and a perfect Mary Sue.  So they hate her for being perfect and everyone loving her, and they hate her for being weak and pathetic.  It seems the EPs overestimated Felicity's charms when they thought she could strangle a kitten and still be loved.

Like you said they are nutbars.

[slayer2]

Well that was refreshing! I quite enjoy the show without Oliver and I'm happy to see him segregated from the group. I was annoyed that they were still flashbacks to contend with but the twist at the end was nice. Finally some present-day Oliver in some back in the day flashbacks.

It all added up nicely, I liked Team Arrow, The Merlyns and Laurel. Yay Laurel! I truly enjoyed her in this episode. Well done show, thoroughly enjoyable episode the likes of which I haven't seen much of this season. Kudos!

[catrox14]

Well that was refreshing! I quite enjoy the show without Oliver and I'm happy to see him segregated from the group. I was annoyed that they were still flashbacks to contend with but the twist at the end was nice. Finally some present-day Oliver in some back in the day flashbacks.

It all added up nicely, I liked Team Arrow, The Merlyns and Laurel. Yay Laurel! I truly enjoyed her in this episode. Well done show, thoroughly enjoyable episode the likes of which I haven't seen much of this season. Kudos!

 

I find this fascinating. The show is about Oliver Queen. He is the main character. Nearly everything is tied to and is about him. I'm curious how you have tolerated the show all this time, if you dislike Oliver

[tv echo]

I thought Oliver was stabbed on his right side.  Yet his wound appears to be on the left side in this scene (video included in this article):

 

SPOILER WARNING: Check Out That Awesome Final Scene From This Week's ARROW
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=114163

Edited January 24, 2015 by tv echo

[slayer2]

I find this fascinating. The show is about Oliver Queen. He is the main character. Nearly everything is tied to and is about him. I'm curious how you have tolerated the show all this time, if you dislike Oliver

I never said I disliked Oliver. If you remain curious I welcome you to read my former posts.

As an aside: people are entitled to watch the show for any character or reason they wish (alot of people on here watch for Felicity) and no one is obliged to like or dislike any character including the lead.

Edited January 24, 2015 by slayer2

[Nanrad]

NO!!!!!! I lost my quotes from others...

 

I have a few things to say and I have to say them quick:

 

1. It infuriates me with a passion of a thousand burning suns when people call Felicity a Mary Sue because she isn't one. She doesn't have these big flaws, but her decisions, actions, etc have proved that she isn't a Mary Sue. Just because she hasn't fucked up like Laurel, doesn't make her one. Quick frankly, Laurel mistakes/flaws don't make her relatable and human, but grating and annoying.

 

2. I'll admit, female characters tend to be hated more, but I think people hating Laurel's character is really a function of acting, development, etc. Most of the other female characters of this show tend to be well liked. Even Moira and she's responsible for one husband getting kidnapped, indirectly for another getting killed, and people dying. Laurel was disliked from the beginning and it had nothing to do with pitting women against one another or anything like that. 

 

3. Laurel herself was tolerable, but I have some issues. Why was she in the Arrow Cave in the first place? Was she looking for Oliver? But, I don't think that's it. Her presence was never explained and it seems as if the writers just threw her down there so she could find out he was missing. Okay, so there's that. But, I'm perhaps in the minority, but I don't even find her reaction understandable. Oliver was presumed dead once to come back alive, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen again. He was presumed dead because he was lost at sea--this time he went to take on a man who killed hundreds of men. Even if she believed he couldn't been still alive, I'd expect still an ounce of worry. Lastly, WTF. Her BC reveal was WAAAYYYY too soon. A few boxing matches with a personal trainer and she's good to go??? Oliver trained for years, Sara was with the league of assassins, Roy has been fighting for years, Diggle was in the military, hell, even thea is still training with Malcolm who was trained by the league of assassins. But, I can't accept this because, despite her comic book origins, if Felicity was trained by Oliver for a few months, her fans wouldn't be buying it, and her detractors would be raising hell about how much of a Mary Sue she is.

[apinknightmare]

3. Laurel herself was tolerable, but I have some issues. Why was she in the Arrow Cave in the first place? Was she looking for Oliver? But, I don't think that's it. Her presence was never explained and it seems as if the writers just threw her down there so she could find out he was missing. 

 

Roy and Diggle had found a burned up body in a barrel in the warehouse where they also found those burned up case numbers. They didn't know who the body belonged to (Roy said, "It's not big enough to be Brick"), and at some point off-screen they must've contacted Laurel for help, because she came down into the foundry with the medical examiner's report on the body and the ID of who it belonged to.

Edited January 24, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wingster55]

How dare anyone hate Felicity. How dare they!! 

And of course taking the side of the other characters (who happen to be male) means the commenter is misogynistic and must be of the mind set that women must obey men. It's not possible that the EW user is only opposed to that female character and pro- those male characters. Nope, not at all.

[AyChihuahua]

 

 

How dare anyone hate Felicity. How dare they!!

And of course taking the side of the other characters (who happen to be male) means the commenter is misogynistic and must be of the mind set that women must obey men. It's not possible that the EW user is only opposed to that female character and pro- those male characters. Nope, not at all.

What now?  People can hate whomever they please.  But it's entirely illogical to call someone a perfect Mary Sue who must be hated for being perfect, and a weak and pathetic whiner, who must be hated for being weak and pathetic and whiny.  

[wingster55]

It would be, if it was the same person. Was it? 

[statsgirl]

I thought Oliver was stabbed on his right side.  Yet his wound appears to be on the left side in this scene (video included in this article):

 

You/re right, It's The Great Moving Chest Wound.

[apinknightmare]

It would be, if it was the same person. Was it? 

 

Who actually cares?

 

People can hate Felicity all they want; and others can ascribe reasons to that hatred that may or may not be true. It's not like there aren't people on pro-Laurel boards who think that the only reason anyone could dislike her is because they're a bitter Olicity shipper or because they're a misogynistic a-hole incapable of handling strong women! It's the internet, it's an opinion. It's less valuable than dirt, no matter whose it is. 

 

ETA: Further, if there's an influx of criticism about any character degrading their decision-making skills or actions using typically misogynistic language like "being too emotional," there's nothing wrong with someone thinking that the criticism is coming from a misogynistic place. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but you're dealing with an anonymous person behind a screen name. You'll never be able to prove if they are or they aren't.

Edited January 24, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

You/re right, It's The Great Moving Chest Wound.

I have a feeling its just an error in the video upload. I've noticed that sometimes when videos are uploaded they can reverse sides. Plus Ras did stab him on both sides. If I remember correctly. It was stab to the left, the neck thing and then the serious skewer through the right side. Maybe that one is not bleeding as much. Or maybe they had to do something with the side they're showing to bring him back to life.

[apinknightmare]

I have a feeling its just an error in the video upload. I've noticed that sometimes when videos are uploaded they can reverse sides. Plus Ras did stab him on both sides. If I remember correctly. It was stab to the left, the neck thing and then the serious skewer through the right side. Maybe that one is not bleeding as much. Or maybe they had to do something with the side they're showing to bring him back to life.

 

It's not the upload - the blood is seeping through the bandage on the mid-left side of his chest on the episode as well. Not sure if that's a mistake or if it has something to do with how he was saved. He was definitely skewered through the right side - and he got slashed along his left hip as well - that wound is bleeding through the bandage in the right spot, so...IDK.

Edited January 24, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

I'm rewatching the episode, and I'm almost impressed in how much they bank on Barrowman delivering speeches, Shakespeare in the Park style, for things to be true to the other characters. It's happened a few times this season, the "no prison can hold me" speech, goading Oliver into challeging Ra's for a duel, the entire "Oliver Queen is dead" stuff here. Basically what the speeches do is preempt the plot holes if folks just believe Malcolm. And then they do.

Edited January 24, 2015 by dancingnancy

[wingster55]

ETA: Further, if there's an influx of criticism about any character degrading their decision-making skills or actions using typically misogynistic language like "being too emotional," there's nothing wrong with someone thinking that the criticism is coming from a misogynistic place.

 

Immediately leaping to that conclusion is immensely flawed I think actually. 

Plus there seems to be an intense desire here to immediately dislike anyone who dares criticize Felicity and demean their opinions. 

[dtissagirl]

Immediately leaping to that conclusion is immensely flawed I think actually. 

I'm sorry, but "immediately leaping to that conclusion" implies that thinking those comments were sexist didn't include any analytical thinking to reach the conclusion that the comments were sexist. I read those comments. They were sexist as fuck. And I really did use my brain to reach that conclusion.

Also, this forum is pro-Felicity. It's the nature of the beast. And yes, when she's criticized with misogynistic language, I'll call a spade a spade.

[apinknightmare]

Immediately leaping to that conclusion is immensely flawed I think actually. 

Plus there seems to be an intense desire here to immediately dislike anyone who dares criticize Felicity and demean their opinions. 

 

I didn't immediately leap to any conclusion. I read those comments, and I was able come to the conclusion that they were misogynist in nature. I never wrote that every single person who has that opinion of her IS misogynist, just that there was a general trend of misogyny in the criticism of Felicity's behavior in Left Behind. I'm well aware of the subtext in comments like "she was too emotional," "she's too whiny" and "it's not her place."

 

And I don't have an intense desire to dislike anyone who criticizes Felicity. There are valid criticisms to be made of her, and you're welcome to make any criticisms you like. If I disagree with you, I'll let you know, just like I would expect anyone to do if they disagree with me. This conversation is about comments that were made on EW's site, not here. Has someone demeaned anyone's opinion that's been posting on this site? We've had disagreements and back and forths, but I've never seen anything demeaning. 

Edited January 24, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

 

I read those comments. They were sexist as fuck. And I really did use my brain to reach that conclusion.

I sure hope you aren't a female, because per a lot of those EW.com comments (which made the MALE review author so uncomfortable he tweeted that he was uncomfortable), if you're a female, you don't actually have a fully-functioning brain.  

[paigow]

I thought Oliver was stabbed on his right side.  Yet his wound appears to be on the left side in this scene (video included in this article):

 

SPOILER WARNING: Check Out That Awesome Final Scene From This Week's ARROW

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=114163

Arrow must have hired the same continuity crew that worked on Drive. Ryan Gosling had a similar moving abdominal wound.

[wingster55]

Well I didn't read those comments so I can't really...comment on those. 

[AyChihuahua]

You didn't actually read the comments that some people here, me included, found quite hateful and misogynistic, but you thought it was a good idea to say this to people who actually had read the comments?

 

 

How dare anyone hate Felicity. How dare they!!
And of course taking the side of the other characters (who happen to be male) means the commenter is misogynistic and must be of the mind set that women must obey men. It's not possible that the EW user is only opposed to that female character and pro- those male characters. Nope, not at all.

 

[Tangerine]

I finally got around to watching this episode and it required so many logic leaps that it made my brain hurt. First off, as cool as the scene was, why were Thea and Malcolm sparring in her living room? Are they not rich enough to afford a training space? Ok, a limited budget means they can't afford a new set but um...why didn't they move any of the furniture?

 

Why was Laurel presenting a court case at the beginning of an episode like she was arguing with someone who was flirting with her boyfriend and not like, you know, a professional lawyer? Why the mean girl schtick? THIS is why I have so much trouble getting on side with Laurel as a character. The thing is, she was honestly not bad this episode but the delivery in the first court room scene was just so weird to me. I liked her scene with Diggle, I thought it was nice. But to go from that to putting on Sara's outfit to go fight the thugs was missing about a million and one steps.

 

Regarding Felicity: I'm a huge fan of hers and I felt for her but I do agree she was making some really bad decisions. The thing I hated the most was that she freaking went to Ray to APOLOGIZE for him being a jerk to her earlier. Are we sure he's playing The Atom and not The Mansplainer? Because that's all he does to her. Hey, I get that invoking the name of your dead fiancee can hurt, but how about you not snap at someone who is obviously in some very raw, very fresh pain? How about actually asking her about it and trying to comfort her about it?

Edited January 25, 2015 by Tangerine