The West Wing Season One: Stuck in Neutral

[eyebleach]

That exchange and the exchange from "17 People" where Jed's response to Abby was "No, you did, hot pants!" are some of my favs.

[Aethera]

I loved the chemistry Stockard Channing & Martin Sheen had right from the start of her time on the series.  I totally bought them, always.

 

Man, I really have to get in on the re-watch - work has just completely exploded all over me, which is cutting down on my 'sneak Netflix at work' time.  

[marriedaniac]

I do love them together.

 

"hello, gumdrop."

[BizBuzz]

Monday we start Season 2 ... here is a hard question, if you had to pick your top three faves of Season 1, what would they be?  I know it's hard, but try?

 

Mine are:

 

1) The Crackpots and These Women

2) Celestial Navigation

3) In Excelsis Deo

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Crackpots and These Women is not even on my top, despite it featuring the conversation that sailed SS Josh&Donna, the conversation between Jed and Bartlet about the females reeked on condescension in the least.

 

Anywhoo,

 

The Pilot.

In Excelsis Deo.

What Kind of Day it Has Been. 

Edited March 7, 2015 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[BW Manilowe]

Crackpots and These Women is not even on my top, despite it featuring the conversation that sailed SS Josh&Donna, the conversation between Jed and Bartlet about the females reeked on condensation in the at least.

Anywhoo,

The Pilot.

In Excelsis Deo.

What Kind of Day it Has Been.

Instead of "condensation", did you mean "condescension"? Just asking.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Instead of "condensation", did you mean "condescension"? Just asking.

 

It obvious from the sentence. 

 

Thanks.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Bastet]

the conversation between Jed and Bartlet about the females reeked on condescension in the at least.

 

It's horrible, and tries very hard to ruin an otherwise enjoyable episode for me. 

 

I haven't watched recently enough to rank the episodes, but Celestial Navigation and In Excelsis Deo would definitely be up there.

[eyebleach]

For me:

 

1. Celestial Navigation

2. In Excelsis Deo

3. He Shall, From Time To Time

[BizBuzz]

I feel the need to clarify my choice for The Crackpots and These Women ...

 

The basketball game in the opening (... but the voices of his better angels was shouted down by his obsessive need to win), great insight into Jed Bartlet's character

First Big Block of Cheese Day (great insight into Leo's character)

Security card that Josh gives back (the reasons why he gave it back), plus his visit to the therapist (both great insights into Josh's character)

 

I could go on and on, but don't have enough time right now ... except to say that I didn't let one scene steal what I thought was great character building about the episode ...

[DebbieW]

I felt the same way about the speech at the end, but I loved the basketball game.  Write about that there, Byron.

[marriedaniac]

For me:

 

1. Celestial Navigation

2. In Excelsis Deo

3. He Shall, From Time To Time

 

I think I agree with you.

[PeterPirate]

Take This Sabbath Day is my favorite episode from season 1.  I've watched or listened to the episode many, many times.  

[Driad]

 

Yesterday's "Final Jeopardy" question, from http://j-archive.com --

WORLD LEADERS

On the occasion of this late leader's visit to the U.S. in 2009, ABC News listed 112 various spellings of his name.

 

Reminded me of Leo and the crossword puzzle in the pilot.

[Aethera]

I'm finally doing my own re-watch, and here's something that's always bothered me: In He Shall From Time to Time... the President gets the flu, and we learn about the MS. Though Abby asked Bartlet whether it was like Nantucket or that time at her parents, in a scene where the two of them are talking in private later in the episode, she straight up tells him he has the flu, and she'd have no reason to lie there. Both Abby and the President tell Leo that a fever brings on attacks or can be dangerous, and the fever is caused by the flu. But in later episodes when this comes up, it's portrayed as 'the flu' being a lie to cover for the truth of the MS.  Wasn't it both things at the same time, or even just the flu which could totally cause him to faint and scared her into coming home?  It just felt like sloppy story continuity to me. They didn't need the flu to be a lie for the MS storyline to work.

 

Man, 15 times through, I tend to pick nits. I still adore this episode.  "Cause I wanted to be the President" gets me every damn time.

[Moose135]

 "Cause I wanted to be the President" gets me every damn time.

 

That scene between Martin and John is 18 kinds of awesome.

[AriAu]

But in later episodes when this comes up, it's portrayed as 'the flu' being a lie to cover for the truth of the MS.  Wasn't it both things at the same time, or even just the flu which could totally cause him to faint and scared her into coming home?  It just felt like sloppy story continuity to me. They didn't need the flu to be a lie for the MS storyline to work.

 

I thought that he actually had the flu in HSFT2T, but the lie about the flu (or something else) was when he fainted during the debate in St. Louis during his first campaign. It was discussed in Bartlet for America during Leo's flashback conversation with Jordan Kendall.

Edited May 20, 2015 by AriAu

[Aethera]

Interesting, when I get to that episode I'll have to pay close attention :)

 

That scene at the end of Celestial Navigation where the staff has to explain to the President about the nightmare press briefing is one of my favorite scenes ever. "As much as we'd all like to stand here and watch you…beat the living crap out of Josh" heehee

[AriAu]

According to the TWOP recap of B4A, they said POTUS's collapse was from an inner ear infection that time.

[Guest]

I just started watching TWW a couple of weeks ago.  I am pretty addicted now, and since I'm almost done with the first season, I thought I would jump in.

 

The first few episodes, I wasn't a big fan of the President. Now I love him.  It's fun to see Peggy Olson (Elisabeth Moss) in a different role.  I like her boyfriend as well. 

 

Overall though, I have to say that CJ is my favorite character. The episode where she had the root canal cracked me up as well as the one where she was meeting with people about a trail for the wolves.  

 

So far, there are no characters I really dislike. This is unusual for me with an ensemble drama like this.  I have my favorites (CJ, Toby, Josh) and a couple I'm not overly fond of (namely Mandy).  

 

One minute the show has me laughing, the next crying.  The episode "The State Dinner" was so good all the way through, but the ending got me - President Bartlett telling the guy in the path of the hurricane he would stay on the line with him until it was knocked out was just really moving. They didn't actually say, but I assume all those lives were lost. I like how they don't spoonfeed you every little bit and everything doesn't resolve so neatly.

[Moose135]

Welcome, deaja! I tell you what, let's forget the fact that you're coming a little late to the party and embrace the fact that you showed up at all.

[eyebleach]

There is some material we haven't covered yet.

[Guest]

I watched another two episodes last night. (What? I'm not addicted. I can quit anytime I want.)  Mandy either better make some kind of huge save, or I don't think she'll last much longer in the White House.  I'm kind of hoping she doesn't make some kind of big save. I feel like they are winding her down. First, she wasn't taken seriously about the pandas she wanted (and that was her main plotline that episode) and then with the memo she wrote and being frozen out of meetings?  I don't see it going well for her.

 

All of you who have seen the whole series are probably laughing at this because given my luck predicting tv shows she probably becomes the next Chief of Staff or something. ;)

[Moose135]

All of you who have seen the whole series are probably laughing at this because given my luck predicting tv shows she probably becomes the next Chief of Staff or something. ;)

 

I'll never tell... ;-)

[Guest]

I'm really getting the feeling that some of the hate mail directed toward Zoe and Charlie is going to be serious and Charlie is going to get shot.

I really hope I'm wrong.

[eyebleach]

I'll never tell... ;-)

There's a reason that there is a trope called "The Road to Mandyville" ;)

[BW Manilowe]

I'm really getting the feeling that some of the hate mail directed toward Zoe and Charlie is going to be serious and Charlie is going to get shot.

I really hope I'm wrong.

Just keep watching. You will find out eventually if you're right or not; I can promise you that since I've seen the entire series a bazillion times, between watching it on TV (NBC during first-run & the old WB Network & Bravo once it went into syndication or was cancelled outright by NBC) & the DVDs. By the way, Elisabeth Moss's character name is actually spelled Zoey, with a Y at the end. Zoey Bartlet.

[SparedTurkey]

I remember watching the first season when my parent's had gone on holiday (I was 16). I bought the season because I had heard great things about CJ (and George W Bush was in power - so I wanted to watch something else obvs). But I thought I'd end up watching a couple of episodes and be done. I mainlined the whole season in 2 & 1/2 days. But the second season right after. Loved it. Didn't care for Mandy. Loved Celestial Navigation and What Kind Of Day Has It Been. Loved Toby and his 'day of jubilee'. Loved it all.

Edited September 10, 2015 by SparedTurkey

[Guest]

Just finished Season 1. I was going to go to bed after that episode. I don't need sleep.

This is intense.

[Bastet]

At least you can just pop in the next disc. Watching in real time, that summer was brutal.  We Zaprudered the hell out of the shooting footage, drew diagrams, and then picked back up with the sputtering.  One of the best season finales ever.

[Guest]

I've now watched the first 2.5 episodes of Season 2. I don't want to go to the season 2 thread because of spoilers but I have so much I want to discuss.

Feelings. I need to express my feelings. Why didn't I watch this years ago when the discussion would have been ongoing?

I'll stop now. :)

[AriAu]

I've now watched the first 2.5 episodes of Season 2.

 

How did you stop at a 1/2 episode? It is like eating half a bag of potato chips or half a brownie....you know you are going to finish the rest!

"Psychics at Cal Tech.....I am pretty sure that was suppose to be physicists"-we needed the humor after ITSOTG I &II.

And yes, that was an intense summer wait, and yes you missed some of the most engaging, intellectual and opinionated discussions ever on TWOP when it was airing live, For fun, go read the recaps at TWOP and you will learn how much you missed.

Edited September 11, 2015 by AriAu

[Guest]

How did you stop at a 1/2 episode? It is like eating half a bag of potato chips or half a brownie....you know you are going to finish the rest!

"Psychics at Cal Tech.....I am pretty sure that was suppose to be physicists"-we needed the humor after ITSOTG I &II.

And yes, that was an intense summer wait, and yes you missed some of the most engaging, intellectual and opinionated discussions ever on TWOP when it was airing live, For fun, go read the recaps at TWOP and you will learn how much you missed.

I was SO tired and had already watched 2 episodes more than I promised myself I would when I turned on the tv.  I felt the tension dissipating, saw Josh seemed to be okay, and suddenly got very sleepy from the absence of adrenaline.  I didn't even realize how tense I had been until it was over!

 

Those three episodes in a row (What Kind of Day and In the Shadow of Two Gunmen) were insanely good. From the whole build-up to the shooting, the plot with Toby's brother when it turns out Toby himself was in such danger, to the revelation that the President had been shot (I seriously did not see that coming), to Toby finding Josh - all of it.  Even the tension when I first thought something was wrong with CJ because she mentioned multiple times banging her head and her neck being scratched - turns out she was just piecing things together, but it was so intense.  So so intense.  

[betsyboo]

I was SO tired and had already watched 2 episodes more than I promised myself I would when I turned on the tv.  I felt the tension dissipating, saw Josh seemed to be okay, and suddenly got very sleepy from the absence of adrenaline.  I didn't even realize how tense I had been until it was over!

 

Those three episodes in a row (What Kind of Day and In the Shadow of Two Gunmen) were insanely good. From the whole build-up to the shooting, the plot with Toby's brother when it turns out Toby himself was in such danger, to the revelation that the President had been shot (I seriously did not see that coming), to Toby finding Josh - all of it.  Even the tension when I first thought something was wrong with CJ because she mentioned multiple times banging her head and her neck being scratched - turns out she was just piecing things together, but it was so intense.  So so intense.  

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd now i have to go home and rewatch it.

According to the TWOP recap of B4A, they said POTUS's collapse was from an inner ear infection that time.

do you have a double secret probation link to the recaps? I can get to the home page of an ep thru the wayback machine, but can't get past page 1.

[eyebleach]

I actually find myself jealous of those experiencing TWW for the first time.  One of my girlfriends got derailed mid season 4 and she and her husband started at the beginning and are now in early season 5 and I'm sort of reliving it through her.  

[AriAu]

do you have a double secret probation link to the recaps? I can get to the home page of an ep thru the wayback machine, but can't get past page 1.

 

It's a funny thing-I had a link that someone posted on this site that gave you access in a 1 page format at TWOP, but I went to that link and there are now "connection" problems with that site, which is too bad. I will keep looking for other ways back in since those recaps were priceless.

 

I know it was in Season 2, but things keep appearing on Facebook under the title of "How to Silence Kim Davis Supporters" and of course it is POTUS ripping Dr. Jenna Jacobs a new one.

[BizBuzz]

I actually find myself jealous of those experiencing TWW for the first time.

 

This.

 

I am sure I am not alone when I say we are living vicariously through those that are seeing it for the first time.  It's wonderful to watch.  Thanks for allowing us to share the excitement with you!

[Eeksquire]

Reading this thread inspired me to rewatch those episodes and man, I had forgotten how good they were.  In spite of how many times I have seen them, the moment when Toby goes from chastising Josh for not answering him to realizing what's going on and - just for a heartbeat - not being able to speak or call for help gets me every time.

[Eolivet]

Doing an informal rewatch at home and just finished Take This Sabbath Day. What a beautifully constructed hour of television.

 

Another thing that I'm noticing is there was clearly a plan, and Sorkin (or his minions) laid the groundwork early for stories to come. I mean, the California visit, the President realizing Zoey and Charlie together would draw negative attention, even the way the Leo drug use arc played out. There were mini-arcs within arcs and it just felt like everything was completely...well...scripted. In this age where I sometimes feel like creators are flying by the seat of their pants, it's neat to watch something that feels so carefully plotted.

 

20 Hours in LA is coming up, featuring (I think) one of my favorite lines of the show: "Is there an epidemic of flag burning going on that I'm not aware of?" Never quite looked at the issue the same way after that. Now that's good writing.

[BizBuzz]

Hello All!  Just a gentle reminder that the season threads should stay within the seasons only, please remember that there are some that will be watching for the first time and we would love to give them the same benefit we had by watching it live.

 

You can take any of that kind of talk to the All Episodes Talk.

 

Thanks!

[txhorns79]

Watching The Short List, all I can think is they must have the worst vetting system ever in the Bartlett Administration.  I know that a lot is done for dramatic purpose, but the questions Sam and Toby are asking Harrison after they discover the law review article seems like things that would have been asked long before he was ever within a day or two of nomination.  I mean, Harrison is not at all coy regarding his views when asked, so I did not understand why no one ever probed his views as to right to privacy prior to that moment. 

[SingleMaltBlonde]

I don't think they are actually allowed to ask questions like that or they claim not to..he wasn't listed as the author of the article....someone gave it to them under the table..

 

I think it was Nixon who put Warren on the court.  People make all sorts of assumptions about issues.  I worked for someone once who got taken into chambers by a judge...since he was a upper middle class white guy they didn't believe he was opposed to the death penalty (they thought he was just trying to get out of jury duty) he and the judge had a long conversation.  Oddly he was willing to serve and didn't think it was fair to exclude him.

[AriAu]

I think it was Nixon who put Warren on the court.  People make all sorts of assumptions about issues.  I worked for someone once who got taken into chambers by a judge...since he was a upper middle class white guy they didn't believe he was opposed to the death penalty (they thought he was just trying to get out of jury duty) he and the judge had a long conversation.  Oddly he was willing to serve and didn't think it was fair to exclude him.

 

Eisenhower appointed Warren and in fact, Nixon and Warren did not get along since Nixon edged Warren out for the VP nomination. Warren had been the governor of California before he received the nomination.

The vetting process has gotten a lot more indepth over the years. It started to get more sophisticated after Bork and Ginsburg got turned down, really picked up steam after Thomas got on the court (pubes on the coke can and all), especially after O'Connor and Souter got on without anyone really knowing their views.

If you want a really good discussion of the nomination and vetting process under both Bushs and Clinton, read The Nine by Toobin.

Given what I read in that, I guess that I was not shocked that they had not dug into everything Payton Cabot Harrison had written or thought. I am shocked that it happened in the Oval Office and at that late stage of the process, but it made for good TV. "I am not calling you a fool, rather the delegate from the newly formed state of Georgia is."

Edited October 19, 2015 by AriAu

[BizBuzz]

If I remember correctly ... the reason they went with Harrison was because he said "Yes" ...

 

Yeah, here is the script on that scene:

 

BARTLET
Do this for me. Put together some information on Roberto Mendoza.

TOBY
Sir... it's natural to have second thoughts, but...

BARTLET
No. I just want to be able to know something. There's gonna be a lot of questions.  I don't want it to be 'we had a Hispanic on the short list.'

TOBY
What is it you're looking for?

BARTLET
The reason we didn't go with him.

TOBY
The reason we didn't go with him is because Harrison said yes.

BARTLET
Let's do better than that.

TOBY
Yes sir.

 

 

So to me, it was just another indication on how haphazard the first years were in office.  They were just so excited to get someone on the bench, that they took the first person that said yes.

 

And as far as having been vetted for months ... if you aren't looking for anything negative, you wont find it.  ::giggle::

 

That's just my take.

[Melancholy]

I think Harrison probably had an uneventful tenure as judge and chose to write most of his law review articles on esoteric, non-consequential but intellectually impressive topics of law the skated away from privacy. That can absolutely happen. Not every appellate judge sees cases dealing with constitutional privacy concerns. Some Supreme Court nominees have gotten to the confirmation stage without ever having authored a law review article or opinion on the major privacy concerns of today. Like, John Roberts was a blank slate and people were concerned that he "did everything right" as Babbish would say- accumulate a resume and intellectual pedigree to be Supreme Court-material while strategically refusing to weigh on the major controversies of society so he'd be easily confirmed by the Senate. I think Harrison was the same way, which was partly why the Bartlet staff was so excited to pick an easily-confirmed justice. 

 

I think the Bartlet's staff pick of Harrison really meshed with the Season 1 themes of the show. Bartlet and his inner circle were completely idealistic and wanted to re-invent the wheel but they were politically inexperienced relative to their office, so they handled some things in S1 very badly and Jed Bartlet had mediocre poll numbers for his first year in office. By the time the Pilot opens, the administration is running scared, desperately looking for easy wins even though it goes against the idealistic, contrarian personalities afoot. And I think they cope by telling comforting lies to themselves that their easy-way-out-blunders are for the best- i.e. the most important thing is an easy confirmation by the Senate and everyone likes Harrison without wondering WHY everyone likes Harrison. The Short List is a pivotal point in the development of the Bartlet Administration. I love Josh's, "When was it Harrison? When we used to talk, it was never Harrison" epiphany.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Melancholy

[txhorns79]

I don't think they are actually allowed to ask questions like that or they claim not to..he wasn't listed as the author of the article....someone gave it to them under the table..

 

I think every Administration claims to have no litmus test for their judicial nominations, but I have trouble believing that is true.  I think with Harrison, he apparently was strict textualist, and even if he hadn't written on privacy, that judicial thought process would have across in other decisions.  I mean, maybe, literally everything he had done up to that point was over non-controversial, arcane areas of the law, but that seems like stretching it.    

 

 

So to me, it was just another indication on how haphazard the first years were in office.  They were just so excited to get someone on the bench, that they took the first person that said yes.

 

I don't think it worked like that.  From my recollection, the idea was that Harrison had the right pedigree and non-controversial record to make for a smooth confirmation process, so they didn't give serious consideration to someone more controversial like Mendoza because they didn't want the fight.  So it wasn't that Harrison was the first person to say "yes," so much as he was the only one given real consideration.     

[marriedaniac]

This day (well, Nov 10th) in TV history...

 

http://decider.com/2015/11/10/today-in-tv-history-stockard-channing-the-west-wing/

 

Am I right in that this article was written by Joe Reid, aka Joe R from TWoP?

[jaytee1812]

I'm rewatching the various Christmas episodes just now, and I'm just watching Mrs Landingham tell Charlie about her sons. It never fails to make me well up.

[betsyboo]

This day (well, Nov 10th) in TV history...

 

http://decider.com/2015/11/10/today-in-tv-history-stockard-channing-the-west-wing/

 

Am I right in that this article was written by Joe Reid, aka Joe R from TWoP?

Sorry I'm late answering this, but yes! The one and only! http://previously.tv/author/joe-reid/ 

[BizBuzz]

This will be for discussion of Season One of TWW, spoiler free.

 

At the end of the season, we will merge this thread with the existing season one thread, and all will be right with the world.

 

::giggle::