Small Talk: About Big People

[okerry]

11 hours ago, Maggienolia said:

I love all the murder and crime shows, too. LOVED Forensic Files when it was on regularly (I think it's still on in reruns?). But for something a little more positive versus the train wreck that IS MBFFL, I really like Born This Way. 

I like *Born This Way,* too. But my all-time favorite reality show is *RuPaul's Drag Race.* Always fun and entertaining! And with all the discussion here about the c-word, Ru is always telling the contestants that they must have Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve and Talent! But the difference is, everybody's in on the joke and it's not meant as an insult or to hurt anyone. I'd like to think I know the difference because the way that word was used on NitWhitney's show was totally out of bounds.

[Ketzel]

Any fans of Forged In Fire? It's absolutely the anti-MBFFL. Husky metalsmiths (including female ones) compete to forge traditional historic edged weapons. Incredible creativity, skill and strength. No whining. The judges are expert, do a great job of explaining what is going on in the forge, and there is a wacky edged weapons competition champion who tests the finished blades in a way that is both creepy and hilarious. And their new season starts tonight.

[ClareWalks]

39 minutes ago, okerry said:

And with all the discussion here about the c-word, Ru is always telling the contestants that they must have Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve and Talent! But the difference is, everybody's in on the joke and it's not meant as an insult or to hurt anyone.

Love that show! And the Charisma Uniqueness Nerve Talent has never bothered me. I love it when Ru says to the contestants bawdy things like "you'll have to dig deep into your Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve and Talent for this challenge" and such, haha!

[auntjess]

My favorites include Nightwatch, but I'm not sure if they're coming back, because New Orleans cancelled their dealings with A&E, because there was a problem with an NO episode of First 48.
Nightwatch was EMTs, fire, and cops on8p  to 4Am shift, but mainly EMTs.  Just a great show and you got to know the people.
Don't know if it would work anywhere by NO, where it's open 24 hours really. 
Forensic Files is on HLN most of the day, and a few other stations on weekends.  Sometimes a different bunch is added to the mix, usually even older.
Sherry Holmes, Mike's daughter, has a new web series, or at least a pilot, featuring women running businesses usually run by men. 
https://www.facebook.com/sherryholmes/videos/1724127641138345/
I can't see a link that doesn't go through Facebook.
 

[auntjess]

Can anyone remember the dumb jock who was given a reality show a few years ago?
I remember watching it once, because people were talking about how dumb he was.

[M.F. Luder]

1 hour ago, auntjess said:

Can anyone remember the dumb jock who was given a reality show a few years ago?
I remember watching it once, because people were talking about how dumb he was.

Ryan Lochte? He had a reality show called What Would Ryan Lochte Do and people were talking about how dumb he was.

[Tabbygirl521]

7 hours ago, M.F. Luder said:

Ryan Lochte? He had a reality show called What Would Ryan Lochte Do and people were talking about how dumb he was.

This is cracking me right the hell up!!

[auntjess]

OK, that must be it.  People were talking about how dumb he is, and they showed an interview where the interviewers cracked up afterward, and I was thinking there was an earlier dumb guy, but now see it's the same one.  Thanks.

[Tabbygirl521]

1 hour ago, auntjess said:

OK, that must be it.  People were talking about how dumb he is, and they showed an interview where the interviewers cracked up afterward, and I was thinking there was an earlier dumb guy, but now see it's the same one.  Thanks.

I THOUGHT THE POST WAS A JOKE! Hahahahaha!! What indeed would he do? Pee all over a restroom? Make false allegations against the scary police force in a "challenged" country? LIE??? Tune in and see!! 

OMG! No wonder he is such an entitled little prick. 

Also, when I just went to google him, the first auto-fill hit was "Ryan Lochte bulge." I am NOT clicking. 

[auntjess]

There's a bit on youtube, but most cost money.
https://www.youtube.com/show/whatwouldryanlochtedo

[amacmom]

I remember the What Would Ryan Lochte Do show along with it being panned. Saw this earlier today (good for a laugh):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ryan-lochte-auto-tuned_us_57bc0914e4b03d51368a92c1

[Snarklepuss]

On 8/22/2016 at 11:56 AM, Pachengala said:

Men telling women (because it's always that direction) to smile is super gross and sexist, however much I hate to agree with Vitney on anything. My standard response is to ask, 'Would you say that to another man?' The asker never *gets* it, of course, but I always feel better. No 4000-word diatribe required.

Add me to the list of women who find it patronizing, etc.  I used to get that from men every now and then.  I realize now it stopped a few years ago, probably because the men (even older men) don't give a crap once you're 58, no matter how good you look for your age.  I think it can also be a weight related thing to be honest.

That reminds me of something that happened last week that flipped my switch.  I had just checked out at Walmart.  The cashier was an older man - I'd say at least 10 years older than ME.  He never even made eye contact with me much less said hello.  As I was getting my stuff together the young woman behind me walked up and he engaged with her immediately, smiling and saying, "Hi Hon, how are you?"

Seriously, this guy looks like a POS and like he could be my grandfather and yet I'm not worthy of a "hello" much less a "hi hon". 

Actually I'm glad he didn't call me "hon" because I would have winced and found it patronizing anyway.  I guess after a certain age, you can't win in this department.

[DatFatShorty]

17 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

That reminds me of something that happened last week that flipped my switch.  I had just checked out at Walmart.  The cashier was an older man - I'd say at least 10 years older than ME.  He never even made eye contact with me much less said hello.  As I was getting my stuff together the young woman behind me walked up and he engaged with her immediately, smiling and saying, "Hi Hon, how are you?"

 

 

remember a few years ago went to a pharmacy, there was nobody there, but took the number anyway. Kept waiting and at the same time the guy came out of wherever he was, this other woman comes, takes no number and he asks her what she wants . I come over and say I was first and why have the number dispenser if you won't respect numbers. He gave me an ugly look and proceeded to ask the other woman "How can I help you, beautiful?" I don't remember if I stayed or left, but felt pretty shitty, like "You're ugly so I don't care if you were here first". Days later I come back to see a man insulting this guy for some reason. He apologized to me and I said it was okay, no big deal. I guess some men can't see beyond a woman, only if she's pretty or not, regardless of age (I was 27 or something) Dude wasn't Brad Pitt, he reminded me of Donkey from Shrek, same smile.

[ClareWalks]

6 minutes ago, DatFatShorty said:

remember a few years ago went to a pharmacy, there was nobody there, but took the number anyway. Kept waiting and at the same time the guy came out of wherever he was, this other woman comes, takes no number and he asks her what she wants . I come over and say I was first and why have the number dispenser if you won't respect numbers. He gave me an ugly look and proceeded to ask the other woman "How can I help you, beautiful?" I don't remember if I stayed or left, but felt pretty shitty, like "You're ugly so I don't care if you were here first". Days later I come back to see a man insulting this guy for some reason. He apologized to me and I said it was okay, no big deal. I guess some men can't see beyond a woman, only if she's pretty or not, regardless of age (I was 27 or something) Dude wasn't Brad Pitt, he reminded me of Donkey from Shrek, same smile.

Oh my lord. I bet the other woman at the pharmacy being called "beautiful" was creeped out too. I would be so uncomfortable if I were her and I would have said "um, she was here first actually." It is incredible the entitlement that average-looking (or ugly) guys feel about flirting with good-looking women. I've always been very aware of my physical limitations and only gone after dudes who were within a point or so of my own "1-10 rating."

[abbey]

This reminds me of an incident at work.  I was working 10 hour days 6 days a week to get stuff done for the foremen on a special project they were doing. Day after day of more work for me so there would be more work for them.  I asked if I could go out in the field for an hour or 2 when things slowed down so I could see the progress of the work and also see the results of some of my work.  I kept getting put off.  Then an intern comes in.  Young, blonde, pretty.  Didn't have a clue what was going on but looked really cute giggling and talking to the foremen (all men) They all took turns taking her out on field trips. They couldn't ask her out to the field fast enough and she didn't have a clue what kind of work was being done or what work was required (by me!) in order that the work in the field could be done.  Fortunately my supervisor and I could laugh about it but boy it was frustrating.  Cute blonde gets all the attention but hard working middle aged woman who does all the work is told they don't have the time.  Such is life.

[auntjess]

An ad apeared on my Facebook page, and Whit NEEDS these.  Dual purpose, she could do some cleaning up.
http://www.mobstub.com/d/Pair-of-Mop-Cleaning-Slippers/?utm_source=StitcherAds
 

[bengaltoo]

Anyone seen this??  OMG!!

 

http://cheezburger.com/932613/this-couples-relationship-goal-is-to-eat-until-woman-becomes-so-fat-she-cant-move?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=ss&utm_campaign=dailydot

[auntjess]

Bengaltoo, some of the people on 600 lb Life have been in a relationship like that, I think.  The husband would get mad if the wife lost weight.
What's the term, not just fat fetish, but something with "feeder" in it, I think.

[M.F. Luder]

Did anyone see the BBC special where they did an autopsy on an obese woman who died of heart failure? It was pretty interesting and really eye opening to see exactly what prolonged obesity can do to a person. The woman was only 62 and weighed something like 230lbs, so she wasn't particularly old or overweight (relative to what most Americans would consider morbidly obese). The most interesting part for me was when they showed the effects that high blood pressure had on her heart. There's no amount of Health at Every Size rhetoric that can get around that.

I'm fully on board with the concept of not shaming people for their body but I think it's equally harmful to try to convince someone that the choices they make now won't affect their health in the future. It's like a drug pusher telling kids that society exaggerates the effects of drugs and a little cocaine never hurt anybody. Which is actually something that I've heard people say many times in my life.

[Madding crowd]

People of all sizes can have high blood pressure though. Treating high blood pressure is one of the important points here. Many people are "anti-big pharma" and reluctant to take medication. My mother died of blood pressure related illness and was not overweight. My husband currently has very high blood pressure ( being treated), and is neither overweight nor a smoker. My point is to treat the condition not just talk about a person's size.

[M.F. Luder]

3 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

People of all sizes can have high blood pressure though. Treating high blood pressure is one of the important points here. Many people are "anti-big pharma" and reluctant to take medication. My mother died of blood pressure related illness and was not overweight. My husband currently has very high blood pressure ( being treated), and is neither overweight nor a smoker. My point is to treat the condition not just talk about a person's size.

I agree. No one argues that ONLY big people can have these health conditions, but it's a fact that being big puts you at a bigger risk of having these conditions. It's not helpful to anyone to deny something that has been proven. Not every smoker gets lung cancer and not everyone with lung cancer is a smoker, but that doesn't meant that a doctor shouldn't advise a patient that they shouldn't smoke. And whether someone with high blood pressure is fat or thin, one of the ways to treat it is being more mindful about diet and exercise, so it's not a matter of just talking about a person's size.

[Ketzel]

42 minutes ago, M.F. Luder said:

I agree. No one argues that ONLY big people can have these health conditions, but it's a fact that being big puts you at a bigger risk of having these conditions. It's not helpful to anyone to deny something that has been proven. Not every smoker gets lung cancer and not everyone with lung cancer is a smoker, but that doesn't meant that a doctor shouldn't advise a patient that they shouldn't smoke. And whether someone with high blood pressure is fat or thin, one of the ways to treat it is being more mindful about diet and exercise, so it's not a matter of just talking about a person's size.

Yes. And it's also well-established that obesity alone can be the cause of hypertension. It's not the only cause - lack of exercise, high-sodium diets, family history and alcohol consumption are also factors that can be found in the medical history of people with hypertension, regardless of their weight.  But obese people can develop hypertension even in the absence of the other risk factors, based on their weight alone, because of the extra work the heart has to do circulating the blood over a larger distance, and because the pressure of internal fat on the blood vessels, especially in the abdomen, narrows and stiffens the blood vessels, also increasing blood pressure. And so for any obese person with hypertension, treating the condition does require talking about the person's size.  His or her size might be the only reason for the issue. At the very least, it's a contributing factor.  I agree that doctors shouldn't jump to conclusions based on a person's appearance. But in this case, the appearance seems to justify the conclusion  - this patient's condition would be improved by weight loss.

[ClareWalks]

I know a woman who weighs over 300 lb and has dealt with infertility for many years. When she moved to this state, she tried to make an appointment at a nationally-ranked fertility clinic that is an hour or so from our town. They would not see her because her BMI is too high (meaning, over 50). She was very upset about this and decided she needed to lose weight (only 15 lb to hit their guidelines) so she could finally fulfill her dream of being a mother. It's been three years and she hasn't lost a pound. But she keeps complaining that doctors won't see her because she is big. Meanwhile, my personal infertility issues made me depressed and I gained weight to around a 28 BMI, but when I realized that weight loss could make even a tiny difference in whether I conceived, I busted my ass and got down to a 20.5 BMI. 

I can understand the frustrations that "thin people can have X too and nobody says boo," but I also don't understand how someone can let their weight literally get in the way of their dreams. Extra weight may not cause every health concern, but losing excess weight via exercise and healthy diet will ALMOST ALWAYS be beneficial to one's health. In many cases it can totally cure what ails you, and is much cheaper and less invasive/side effect-y than other treatment programs. Urging obese patients to lose weight is not always a "shaming" move, it can be a way to let people know that if they do something about this now, it can dramatically improve their health and quality of life moving forward.

[Madding crowd]

The opposite is that many times people who are obese are not given treatments for ailments which are treatable because it is assumed that they don't care about their health. Newer studies in many areas including diabetes, are showing that diabetes may cause obesity . Everything is not cut and dried. I believe an obese person should be given appropriate medical treatment no matter what the problem is. No one would tell someone to smoke but they also wouldn't deny treatment to someone suffering from lung cancer. I have seen firsthand doctors not treating a person simply because of their weight. Weight loss is also not easily accomplished especially if you are past menopause, have mobility issues or are on medications that cause weight gain. I'm going to go further out on the limb and say obese people have the same right as anyone else to have children and to receive fertility treatments or any other treatment. I'm sorry for anyone wth fertility issues but it's not the fault of someone else who is fat.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Madding crowd
Spelling

[ClareWalks]

42 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I'm going to go further out on the limb and say obese people have the same right as anyone else to have children and to receive fertility treatments or any other treatment. I'm sorry for anyone wth fertility issues but it's not the fault of someone else who is fat.

Your last sentence is baffling, did you think I was blaming fat people for my fertility issues? 

The issue with this fertility clinic not treating her is they need to keep their published success rates as high as possible. You might find that distasteful, and you wouldn't be alone in that, but a lot of clinics require their patients to meet minimal requirements of attempted good health. Considering so many people go to the clinic because of PCOS, and weight loss is the primary treatment of PCOS, it makes total sense to me that they'd want to increase the odds of success as much as possible. You compare it to cancer treatments for a smoker, which isn't entirely apt because infertility is not deadly, but a smoker with lung cancer would be far less likely to receive a transplant (if needed) if he said "well, I'm NEVER gonna quit smoking, even if you give me a new lung, so whatever."

[Madding crowd]

People can't quit eating so it can't be compared to giving up cigarettes. I was not suggesting you are blaming someone's obesity on your fertility issues but you do seem to be implying that you should receive fertility treatments and a fat person shouldn't. I'm not sure why one person 's medical problems would  ever be compared to another's. A person could also say things like " I took my medicine correctly and this person didn't " or " this person had genetic factors and I didn't"

There are always several factors or randomness in illness and I just don't see my health issues having anything to do with anyone else or thnk their issues involve me. 

[M.F. Luder]

Obese people have the same rights as anyone else, but that doesn't mean that they should receive the same treatment that a thin person would. Every body/condition requires a doctor to make a choice on what treatment will be most effective. On My 600-lb Life, they say that Dr. Now is the only doctor willing to perform surgery on those patients because they're so big that most doctors believe the risk of death is too high. I don't think that means that all the other doctors or the American medical industry is fat phobic and denying obese people equal rights. With the fertility example, I can imagine that it is less likely to be successful for obese women, and I can imagine that some doctors don't feel it's right to perform incredibly expensive procedures for someone when the probability of success is very low. 

Weight loss may not be easy or as straightforward as some people might suggest, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be pursued. Whether diabetes causes obesity vs the other way around, it doesn't change the fact that the treatment will still be proper diet and insulin management. And whether you gained 100lbs from binge eating or PCOS, it doesn't change the fact that your body is struggling with 100 extra lbs. 

[Madding crowd]

You don't have the right to say medical treatment should be withheld because of a person's weight. 

[ClareWalks]

5 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I was not suggesting you are blaming someone's obesity on your fertility issues but you do seem to be implying that you should receive fertility treatments and a fat person shouldn't.

Okay, if that's what you read, we are done here. Good luck to ya.

[M.F. Luder]

5 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

You don't have the right to say medical treatment should be withheld because of a person's weight. 

I don't, but doctors do. If someone's weight is going to render a procedure too risky or ineffective, then it's the ethically right choice for the doctor to require the patient to lose weight first. If it's an immediate life or death situation, then yes, do whatever gives the patient the best chance to live. But, if it's a matter of "your chance of not dying during gastric bypass surgery increases by 50% if you lose 50lbs first" then I don't see a problem with that.  

[ClareWalks]

4 minutes ago, M.F. Luder said:

I don't, but doctors do. If someone's weight is going to render a procedure too risky or ineffective, then it's the ethically right choice for the doctor to require the patient to lose weight first. If it's an immediate life or death situation, then yes, do whatever gives the patient the best chance to live. But, if it's a matter of "your chance of not dying during gastric bypass surgery increases by 50% if you lose 50lbs first" then I don't see a problem with that.  

Exactly! Doctors already pay out the butt for professional liability and malpractice insurance, and they have the right to "refuse services" if they are too risky. They might even be required to do so by their insurance companies.

[Ketzel]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

You don't have the right to say medical treatment should be withheld because of a person's weight. 

And in this assertion, I see the glittering reflection of the Whitney Way Thore philosophy of life: "Just because I'm morbidly obese doesn't mean I shouldn't get to do/be/have/anything I want, exactly as I want it. I'm perfect just the way I am, I have no need to change in any way. Nobody can tell me I am restricted by my weight under any circumstances, and if someone does, it is discrimination and fat shaming." 

Describing a medical treatment as being "withheld" is a loaded description.  It implies an effective medical intervention is being denied to a patient in need, for no other reason than his or her weight.  But what if a doctor determines the requested intervention would be rendered ineffective or extremely risky because of the patient's obesity? Is it OK for the doctor to tell the obese patient that, say, hip replacement surgery is not a good idea until the patient loses X number of pounds because the patient's weight complicates the anesthesia, complicates the surgery, extends the time of the surgery, creates greater-than-normal risk of complications in the healing, like blood clots and infection, and increases the likelihood that there will be mechanical issues with the new joint? Not to mention that since the patient's present obesity limits his or her range of motion, without weight loss the surgery may not improve the patient's mobility noticeably in any event?  Or is this also fat shaming and discrimination?

[Madding crowd]

If you are talking about extreme obesity such as the 600 pound people mentioned, yes there are all of those concerns.  Doctors will also not operate on anyone whohas serious health issues which could cause a poor surgical outcome-this is for thin or fat people. Fat people can and do have surgery everyday and I have seen no statistics or proof that they are causing malpractice claims or that any major insurance company will allow a physician to refuse medical services soley on weight. If you have conditions like uncontrolled blood pressure, breathing problems, heart problems, blood problems, you won't get surgery-no matter your weight.

I guess I don't understand anyone having a vested interest in wanting anyone to be denied medical care. I know people who smoke like chimneys but I wouldn't be upset if they received appropriate care. That is what we pay insurance premiums for.

[editorgrrl]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/26/health/obese-patients-health-care.html

Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don’t See Past the Fat

Quote

A committee reviewed the risks and benefits of joint replacement in obese patients for the American Association of Hip and Knee Surgeons. The group concluded that heavy patients should first be counseled to lose weight because a lower weight reduces stress on the joints and can alleviate pain without surgery.

But there should not be blanket refusals to operate on fat people, the committee wrote. Those with a body mass index over 40—like a 5-foot-5-inch woman weighing 250 pounds or a 6-foot man weighing 300—and who cannot lose weight should be informed that their risks are greater, but they should not be categorically dismissed, the group concluded.

[ClareWalks]

3 minutes ago, editorgrrl said:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/26/health/obese-patients-health-care.html

Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don’t See Past the Fat

Yeah, see, this article illustrates what I think is genuinely bad about the medical establishment with obesity: if you go to a doctor for a specific concern and they tell you "just lose weight" instead of examining you, they are a shitty doctor. It's one thing to say "you have X diagnosis that can be helped with weight loss," and another thing to say "just lose weight, I don't care what's actually wrong." The former is, in my opinion, medically responsible. The latter is just lazy doctoring.

[notyrmomma]

I'm going to jump in here, although it's probably a mistake.  What I have dealt with when I was obese (HW 318) was this: 

Me: Doc, I threw my back out and I can't walk

Doc: lose weight

Me: absolutely, but how do I get through the next couple of weeks?

(no X-rays, pain medicine, chiropractor treatments weren't working)

Me at 24 years old: Doc, I am experiencing bladder leakage

Doc: lose weight

Me: OK, thanks

(probably unrelated, but I was diagnosed with MS 15 years later and still deal with bladder issues)

Last year when I went in for my physical I was 20 pounds away from my goal, my primary physician went on and on about how much better I will feel once the last 20 are gone, but I was like what is another 20 going to do that the first 130 didn't do?  So doctor's are biased, but sometimes they do have a point.  It's just annoying because I tended not to go in and see a doctor because i knew what they were going to say, so why bother.

[editorgrrl]

49 minutes ago, notyrmomma said:

Last year when I went in for my physical I was 20 pounds away from my goal, my primary physician went on and on about how much better I will feel once the last 20 are gone, but I was like what is another 20 going to do that the first 130 didn't do?

Congratulations on losing more than 130 lbs.!

[mamadrama]

15 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Meanwhile, my personal infertility issues made me depressed and I gained weight to around a 28 BMI, but when I realized that weight loss could make even a tiny difference in whether I conceived, I busted my ass and got down to a 20.5 BMI. 

 Extra weight may not cause every health concern, but losing excess weight via exercise and healthy diet will ALMOST ALWAYS be beneficial to one's health. In many cases it can totally cure what ails you, and is much cheaper and less invasive/side effect-y than other treatment programs. Urging obese patients to lose weight is not always a "shaming" move, it can be a way to let people know that if they do something about this now, it can dramatically improve their health and quality of life moving forward.

This is where I get frustrated. Extra weight CAN cause problems with conceiving. (You don't even have to be morbidly obese.) If your doctor encourages you to lose weight in order to get pregnant then why NOT try it first? I mean, the first option should always be the cheapest and less invasive. I am 4'10" and weigh 103 pounds so I am not overweight. However, when I was 120 pounds and my pain levels began increasing with my medical condition, before we went to stronger pain medication or invasive surgeries I was encouraged to lose weight first. And I did. It didn't end up helping but at least I tried. 

12 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

The opposite is that many times people who are obese are not given treatments for ailments which are treatable because it is assumed that they don't care about their health. Newer studies in many areas including diabetes, are showing that diabetes may cause obesity .

 I'm going to go further out on the limb and say obese people have the same right as anyone else to have children and to receive fertility treatments or any other treatment. I'm sorry for anyone wth fertility issues but it's not the fault of someone else who is fat.

And obesity can cause diabetes. It's kind of a chicken and the egg thing. Some people who lose the extra weight are able to go off of their diabetes medication. My mother did. Her blood sugar levels evened out with weight loss. And as far as overweight people having the right to fertility treatments...I think it would be unethical for a doctor to jump right into invasive and expensive treatments without first encouraging the person to lose weight. Some of those fertility treatments cost $20,000. 

12 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Your last sentence is baffling, did you think I was blaming fat people for my fertility issues? 

 

*snort* Ha ha! ;-) 

11 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I was not suggesting you are blaming someone's obesity on your fertility issues but you do seem to be implying that you should receive fertility treatments and a fat person shouldn't.

I actually didn't get that from @ClareWalks comment at all. 

11 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

You don't have the right to say medical treatment should be withheld because of a person's weight. 

Like someone already said, none of us have the right to say medical treatment should be withheld, but the doctor does. The Hippocratic oath states that they'll do no harm. They're also meant to administer life-saving aid where warranted. Elective treatments don't fall under that category. Fertility treatments are elective. 

7 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

 

I guess I don't understand anyone having a vested interest in wanting anyone to be denied medical care. I know people who smoke like chimneys but I wouldn't be upset if they received appropriate care. That is what we pay insurance premiums for.

What I see is that the overweight  patients who are denied elective treatments also have additional problems that COULD be caused by their excess weight. Hypertension, diabetes, etc. If person A needs treatment but could possibly achieve the desired result by losing weight then why not try weight loss first? In this example person A is having increased joint pain and is seeking surgery on their hip. The doctor might recommend that they try losing weight first, because it could lessen the pressure on the joint. I see zero problems with that. They're not being denied medical care, they're being given an alternative option. On the other hand, if person B is having the same problem but rather than being overweight is a smoker, then it is very unlikely that ceasing to smoke is going to have an influence on that pain. So the surgery might be greenlit faster. 

My mother is morbidly obese. I've taken care of her most of my life and have dealt with doctor after doctor. She's never once been denied medical treatment. The closest she came was when she wanted gastric bypass surgery but they had her lose weight and change her eating habits first, to see if she COULD lose it on her own. (She couldn't and got the surgery.)

6 hours ago, notyrmomma said:

 

Me: Doc, I threw my back out and I can't walk

Doc: lose weight

Me: absolutely, but how do I get through the next couple of weeks?

(no X-rays, pain medicine, chiropractor treatments weren't working)

Me at 24 years old: Doc, I am experiencing bladder leakage

Doc: lose weight

Me: OK, thanks

(probably unrelated, but I was diagnosed with MS 15 years later and still deal with bladder issues)

Last year when I went in for my physical I was 20 pounds away from my goal, my primary physician went on and on about how much better I will feel once the last 20 are gone, but I was like what is another 20 going to do that the first 130 didn't do?  So doctor's are biased, but sometimes they do have a point.  It's just annoying because I tended not to go in and see a doctor because i knew what they were going to say, so why bother.

Congrats on losing the weight! Way to go! And yes, they DO want to jump onto the weight issue first. I find that, being a woman, they also want to jump onto the mental health thing first. (Everything is because you're depressed...) But sometimes they're right. And that IS annoying. :-) 

[MegD]

As someone who is obese, I can tell you that the fear with doctors and why they typically will not operate as readily on the obese lies less with their weight and more about concerns about establishing safe airways and IVs. For example, I have apnea (hereditary, my teeny, tiny grandmother, aunts and parents all have it to). Because of this, my doctor would not operate in his outpatient surgery center for my ankle surgery and I had to go to the hospital in case my airway collapsed. This was stated as because of my weight. My aunt, who is super morbidly obese, has problems even getting blood drawn and IVs are impossible without larger interventions (cut downs, central lines, etc.). She simply is too bulky to get to commonly reached veins. The same is true with intubation for her. Due to her size, when lying on her back, her airway collapses under the overlying bulk. So many doctors do relate it to weight because weight is an outward measurement of medical risk for a patient.

[yogi2014L]

We don't bat an eye about alcoholics needing to stay sober for a period of time before getting LIFE SAVING transplants ( and I am not disagreeing with that) so I don't think it is unethical or wrong for a morbidly obese person to be asked by their doctor to lose weight before starting an elective process like IVF. If they don't like it I am sure they can find a doctor who won't have that requirement. And not only does being obese lead for poorer IVF outcomes, it also makes pregnancy dangerous for both mom and baby.  So I don't think it is out of line to ask that women who already cannot get pregnant try to lose weight first. 

[editorgrrl]

400-Pound Hacker? Trump Comments Fuel Dialogue on Fat-Shaming

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/well/live/a-400-pound-hacker-trump-comment-ignites-fat-shaming-debate.html

Quote

It was a casual remark tossed off by Donald J. Trump that jolted Johanna Kandel from her seat during the recent presidential debate.

An anonymous computer hacker, Mr. Trump said, “could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds.”

“The hair on the back of my neck definitely stood up,” said Ms. Kandel, 37, of West Palm Beach, Fla., who has struggled with eating disorders and now works to raise awareness about the issue. Ms. Kandel recalled how vicious comments about size and appearance contributed to her own struggle.

“How many of our youth were sitting there and watching these debates, and thinking that this is O.K. to talk about and shame people based on their appearance?”

[AnJen]

Doctors start with the most obvious cause of a patient's complaint and search from there. If an obese 20-something year old comes to them with back pain for example, the first answer is obviously going to be "lose weight and see if it improves" because 1) carrying excess weight around constantly is painful and 2) this will help narrow things down.

Assuming the 20-something year old patient followed doctors orders, either the pain would go away and they'd be fine, or the pain would continue and the doctor would be better able to narrow down the cause. Doctors don't do this because they're denying a fat person real treatment, losing weight is the first step in their treatment. If the back pain continues after the weight loss, the doctor is able to further narrow down the cause of the pain and provide an actual treatment rather than just prescribe something for pain management. 

[M.F. Luder]

That's true. Also, many health insurance companies won't cover more expensive tests or treatments until the most likely diagnosis is explored first. I work in health insurance and I know first hand that many treatments require pre-authorizations before the doctor is allowed to pursue it, and there needs to be a clear case for why the treatment should be pursued over some other option that costs less. It's a problem for everyone involved, really.

[ClareWalks]

It seems like a lot of people (I am tempted to say most people) are conditioned from childhood to be extremely self-conscious about their weight, to the point where any perceived criticism of it is a hair-trigger subject and very sensitive. A doctor asking a medical patient to lose weight is not the same level of shaming as a bully calling someone a cow in the school hallway, but somehow for a lot of folks the outcome of feeling shame is similar.

My mom was not a flawless person but one thing I am grateful for is that she never talked poorly about her weight in front of me. She never talked about "bad foods" or said she felt fat or anything of the sort. I am trying to impart the same body positivity onto my son because it was quite inspirational and I think the reason I never had particularly devastating body image issues or food issues growing up. For a lot of folks, it starts in early childhood and it just becomes such a part of them.

[notyrmomma]

4 hours ago, AnJen said:

Doctors start with the most obvious cause of a patient's complaint and search from there. If an obese 20-something year old comes to them with back pain for example, the first answer is obviously going to be "lose weight and see if it improves" because 1) carrying excess weight around constantly is painful and 2) this will help narrow things down.

Assuming the 20-something year old patient followed doctors orders, either the pain would go away and they'd be fine, or the pain would continue and the doctor would be better able to narrow down the cause. Doctors don't do this because they're denying a fat person real treatment, losing weight is the first step in their treatment. If the back pain continues after the weight loss, the doctor is able to further narrow down the cause of the pain and provide an actual treatment rather than just prescribe something for pain management. 

Me to the doctor: Losing weight, what a great idea!  I hadn't even considered it, and that advice was totally worth the $20 copay.  

You totally nailed the reason why the obese don't go to the doctor.  The real secret (shhh, don't tell anyone) is they know they're fat and they also know that losing weight will actually solve a lot of their problems.  But sometimes, weight has nothing to do with the issue, and contrary to popular belief, it's hard to lose weight  period, and much harder when your back is so bad you can't even walk. 

I wish I could find the article, but a while back I read something about a woman who nearly died (or maybe she did die) due to ovarian cancer, which was originally misdiagnosed as back pain from being overweight.  Overweight people really do have quite the dilemma.  The medical community really has to come together and figure out a solution to this obesity problem.

Oh, and to put my opinion on the record, if someone said to Twit, "here's a magic wand, wave it and you will be 120 pounds" no doubt she would wave the wand and be skinny.  She is a flat out liar when she says she wants to be fat.  That would be like saying, "I love living in poverty and having to rummage through trash to eat" or "I love this giant wart on my ass"  No. No way. Not on this planet.

[Madding crowd]

I agree with the above and also 'being fat' doesn't cause every problem. If you go to the doctor because of a ruptured disc, bronchitis or migraine headaches, losing weight won't help those things. My husband and I have PPO insurance with a very high deductible. That means we pay a huge amount of medical bills ourselves. I expect my doctor to give me the appropriate treatment whether I weight 120 or 200 pounds. Weight can aggravate some problems but if you have a medical problem it needs to be treated. In my case, my orthopedic surgeon has provided my primary doctor proof that my torn rotator cuff, spinal stenosis and 4 ruptured discs are not weight related, but she still just talks about weight. Maybe if I were not in excessive pain 24 hours a day, I would lose more weight. i do exercise and do everything my ortho doc says but my other doctor sees only weight. 

[Natalie68]

On 9/27/2016 at 2:03 PM, Madding crowd said:

You don't have the right to say medical treatment should be withheld because of a person's weight. 

No but a doctor does.

[Snarklepuss]

On 9/28/2016 at 5:13 AM, mamadrama said:

What I see is that the overweight  patients who are denied elective treatments also have additional problems that COULD be caused by their excess weight. Hypertension, diabetes, etc. If person A needs treatment but could possibly achieve the desired result by losing weight then why not try weight loss first? In this example person A is having increased joint pain and is seeking surgery on their hip. The doctor might recommend that they try losing weight first, because it could lessen the pressure on the joint. I see zero problems with that. They're not being denied medical care, they're being given an alternative option. On the other hand, if person B is having the same problem but rather than being overweight is a smoker, then it is very unlikely that ceasing to smoke is going to have an influence on that pain. So the surgery might be greenlit faster.

Back in June after my physical exam my doctor said my cholesterol was high (240) with high triglycerides plus my blood sugar was in the  "yellow" zone.  Rather  than give me meds. he told me to lose weight and come back in 3 months to see if losing weight and making some specific dietary changes would improve my numbers.  Right after that I got an email at work about the Omada program which employees could join for free. It's an online program to help people with elevated numbers lose weight and adopt healthier dietary and exercise regimens so as to improve those numbers.  I weigh in every day on their scale, which automatically sends my weight to my progress page.  I have to track my meals every day and a registered dietician makes suggestions. 

Long story short, after 3 months of stepped up exercise, significant dietary changes including portion sizes, I managed to lose the 15 lbs. the plan had chosen as my goal for the program.  Despite this I was shocked to find out that my numbers had not changed at all.  I have not been back to this doctor, I only found out about 10 days ago after blood tests were taken before having surgery on my arm after slipping and falling in the parking lot at work and breaking it.  (Yes it's my dominant arm and yes I am getting worker's comp.)

I wonder just how much more weight I will have to lose before I see any results.  I don't intend to stop now, but if nothing changes after another 15 pounds, will that be enough to convince my dr. that my numbers might not be due to my weight?  My father has never been overweight but post 50 his cholesterol became high too.  Just because something COULD be caused by being overweight doesn't mean that this assumption should be a doctor's "fall back" position with every patient.  Perhaps if he had asked me about my family history he might have had at least some reason not to make an assumption about my weight.  Not that I ever regret losing weight and I'm sure it will benefit me in other ways, though.

[DoctorWhovian]

I think a lot of people (Whitney included) also fall into the fallacy that they have to exercise to lose weight. Exercise will speed up weight loss (not a lot though!) by having your body burn more calories. Plus, it's good for the body and part of overall health. But you can't out run your fork. Cutting calories is enough to lose weight without any exercise, if you do it correctly and actually eat the correct amount (most people over estimate the calories burned from working out, and underestimate the amount of calories in your food). Add in the fact that you have to adjust the caloric intake as you lose weight (the smaller you are (height and weight), the less your body needs to function), and it becomes easy to stall. When I really count calories (weighing and measuring everything), I am still shocked about how fast those calories add up, and what I thought was a healthy sandwich with lots of veg turns close to half my day's calories. tl;dr: not being able to exercise is not an excuse for not eating right (Will called Whitney out for this at one point).

I think it's also important to recognize, however, that food is more than that for humans. We aren't animals just eating to survive, food is part of our culture and social life, we eat not just to sustain but also because we enjoy it, and no one wants to think about it 24/7. That's where the balance part comes in (but also learning appropriate balance!). For myself, I still need to lose some weight, although I've lost and mostly kept off 30 pounds which is half of what I'd like to do, but I've been fortunate in that these past 2 years of not actively dieting but just balancing enough, has kept me at the same general 5 pound range. I was at the dermatologist last week and had some questions about a few little things on my skin, and the doctor there even brought up weight as being a possible connection to the bumps (not that it's the cause, or always the cause, but that there seems to be a correlation), but that because its generally cosmetic and not causing me issues, they really don't do anything about them, but that I could see if losing weight would effect them.

[ClareWalks]

4 hours ago, DoctorWhovian said:

I think a lot of people (Whitney included) also fall into the fallacy that they have to exercise to lose weight. Exercise will speed up weight loss (not a lot though!) by having your body burn more calories. Plus, it's good for the body and part of overall health. But you can't out run your fork.

So true. Whenever I hear people (like Whitney) say "how can I lose weight if people make fun of me whenever I try to work out?" I just shake my head. Weight loss is about creating a calorie deficit. If you have a slow metabolism, you have to consume fewer net calories to make a deficit, but that's the basic principle of weight loss. The deficit can either be created by eating less, moving more, or some combo. A controlled, sustainable diet is the gold standard for losing weight; exercise is not a requirement. Exercise just gives people a bit more wiggle room.

As a side note, being thin does not prevent commentary during a workout. The other day, at mile 16 of my 18-mile walk, some creep screamed "NICE ASS!" at me from his moving car. In absolutely no universe is that a compliment. I don't think sleazy/rude comments are a fat or a thin thing, I think it's just part of being female and in public. There will always be assholes. Even my husband the Ironman triathlete gets yelled at half the times he's out biking (although apparently if it's a man yelling at a man, it's usually some horrific gay slur). We cannot let the assholes prevent us from living our lives, or give us an excuse not to do something.