Spoilers With Speculation

[Wynterwolf]

I think my biggest question right now is whether she is going to be just a manifestation of a human female, or is she going to be a real person that's been taken over. 

[catrox14]

oh man...so Dean might have a connection to the Darkness....and the Darkness is now this woman......is this gonna be Sam/Ruby s4 redux with Dean/Darkness and sex and stuff?

 

If so, I'm gonna need Donna to show up and cast that light across that Darkness...if you know what I mean....

[Wynterwolf]

Or maybe more like Born Under a Bad Sign Meg.  

[SueB]

Totally Dean's type.  And yes, I suspect she will know all "his little thoughts and secrets".  I can only hope she has Meg-class snark. 

 

Carver said the opener starts MINUTES after the finale.  Maybe there's a timeshift in the first 10 minutes?  Otherwise, I'm thinking it's...minutes.

[catrox14]

 

Totally Dean's type.  And yes, I suspect she will know all "his little thoughts and secrets".  I can only hope she has Meg-class snark.

 

Just let her be an enemy like Meg but not Ruby. No sexy times with the Darkness please. I hated it with Ruby and Sam and I'll hate it here.

 

I'm holding out for Dean and Donna!

Edited July 21, 2015 by catrox14

[mertensia]

Carver said the opener starts MINUTES after the finale. Maybe there's a timeshift in the first 10 minutes? Otherwise, I'm thinking it's...minutes.

These are two distinct things though; the show is starting minutes later but how long does travelling through time take? Milliseconds?

Edited July 21, 2015 by mertensia

[Demented Daisy]

You know what would be kind of awesome?  If Sam and Dean learned their lesson and moved all their allies into the Lair o' Letters.  With such a huge threat looming over the universe, why shouldn't they want to protect as many people as possible?  They don't all have to be in every single episode -- Sam and Dean should still spend episodes on the road, away from the LoL -- but I can envision a huge party episode.  Introducing all the people who don't know each other.

 

Which would make me smile, so no way in Hell they'll do it.  Grrr, this show.  

[mertensia]

I think it would be hysterical if Darkness is all "I'm just gonnna sit by the pool, drink margaritas and ogle men. Taking over the universe can wait; I've earned this."

[catrox14]

So I was listening to the Women of Letters podcast and they had a snippet of an interview with Jensen where he talks about directing. He was really excited about this new camera that is lighter than what they have now and will be lighter for the camera operators to carry.  He also said they have some technology that will allow them to do some green screen where they can mix practical effects with VFX.  I swear he sounded more excited to talk about that than what is happening with Dean.

[7kstar]

My first thought, that's not a good sign.  I just hope, it's because it's new and he's still in director's mode.  Not that he doesn't like what they are doing to Dean.  At least he is getting to learn something about directing and that certainly is worthwhile if that is the direction he will go after this show is over.  I hope not, because I want to see him do something else.

 

I know on another show, they were talking about how new camera's are allowing the TV/Film actor to act like stage.  Doing it in one take verses many.  So it will be interesting to see what the new camera does.

 

I wouldn't mind if Darkness could read all of Dean's thoughts...it might make it interesting as he tries to deny it.

[ILoveReading]

I'm mostly a lurker but does anyone know approxiametly what time the Jensen part of the interview is in the podcast.  I don't want to listen to all 90 minutes of it.

[Aeryn13]

 

I swear he sounded more excited to talk about that than what is happening with Dean.

 

Well, as a director he has something to talk about. For the character, not so much.

 

Since I still think Dean having a connection to the darkness is a big misinterpretation from his interview at Comic Con - I believe he said the exact opposite .- I don`t think he will have much of a connection to this Amara-character. He might comment on her hotness and she shoots him down because he is supposedly old now (and, therefore unattractive? seems to have been something they harped on last Season) and then proceeds to drooling over Sam.

 

Who says Sam won`t be connected to the Heavenly Powers giving him special visions AND the darkness? We have spoilers for one so the other wouldn`t be too far off. 

[catrox14]

I'm mostly a lurker but does anyone know approxiametly what time the Jensen part of the interview is in the podcast.  I don't want to listen to all 90 minutes of it.

 

The whole thing is really entertaining. Fun to hear about Jules adventures at SDCC. The interviews are in snippets sprinkled throughout and the one snippet from Jensen I've referenced is towards the end at about 83 minutes or so.

[catrox14]

My first thought, that's not a good sign.  I just hope, it's because it's new and he's still in director's mode.  Not that he doesn't like what they are doing to Dean.  At least he is getting to learn something about directing and that certainly is worthwhile if that is the direction he will go after this show is over.  I hope not, because I want to see him do something else.

 

I know on another show, they were talking about how new camera's are allowing the TV/Film actor to act like stage.  Doing it in one take verses many.  So it will be interesting to see what the new camera does.

 

I wouldn't mind if Darkness could read all of Dean's thoughts...it might make it interesting as he tries to deny it.

 

Dean is in a different place right now and he knows everything he did and he's not in denial about any of it. So I don't know what the point of her knowing what's in his head would be. I don't see it as a torment because Dean knows what he did. It wouldn't be dragging up old buried memories.  I don't see it as a blackmail effort or anything she could use against him either. Maybe some of Dean's Hell memories might be interesting but I doubt the show will bother to go back to that at this point when they had the chance to do so as part of the demon!Dean arc. 

 

 

However, to go along with what Aeryn13 said, I can see where Amara being inside Sam's would make sense because we still don't know everything he did to find Dean. We only know about Lester. Maybe there were more and worse. 

[Omegamom]

Also, Sam has a lot of stuff in his past that verged on darkness, that he's ashamed of, so, yeah, I could see there being a link there.

[kimrey]

Hey guys! *waves*

Its been a while, but I come with spoilers that I am VERY excited about.

Question: I would love some scoop on Supernatural. —Frances

Ausiello: Later in the season, a two-part “bottle” episode will find Sam and Dean “in the same location, building off the same case,” shares EP Andrew Dabb, adding that the arc will “create a little bit of serialization we don’t do a lot of.”

I LOVE BOTTLE EPISODES. I especially love the idea of a bottle episode featuring just Sam and Dean.

For those who don't know what a bottle episode is, it's basically an episode where the characters of a show stay in one place the entire time. So only one set. They also usually take place in one instance of time. So like the episode could basically just be Sam and Dean stuck in a room for an hour or 2 hours since it's a two-parter.

Now this is usually done with larger casts. So it'll be interesting to see how they work it with only two characters. But I am so down for an episode where Sam and Dean just hang out and talk. I am ready for this. I hope they make it as awesome as I'm hoping it will be.

[catrox14]

I love that idea. Of course, they could have had that bottle episode be Sam trying to un demon!Dean for at least one episode...but NOPE. 

[Demented Daisy]

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/supernatural/supernatural-season-11-jeremy-carver-57069.aspx

 

There's unfinished business between the Darkness and the forces that put the Darkness away.

 

 

That almost sounds like confirmation that God (in some form) will be back.  Based on some other comments, I think maybe Sam and Dean are going to give God what for, demand some explanations, and so forth.  Something I've been asking for for years, so it's possible that I'm projecting.

[Mick Lady]

Demented, didn't someone involved with the show say there was a storyline that "Fans have been asking for"?

 

I wondered what it could be, and really like your take on it!

[catrox14]

You mean Dean will finally get to hunt God??? I would be so 10000% on board with it. MAKE IT SO.

[Aeryn13]

 

Demented, didn't someone involved with the show say there was a storyline that "Fans have been asking for"?

 

That was Dabb, but he was speaking solely in regards to Sam`s storyline. Presumably that his visions will be a callback to the visions he had in Seasons 1 and 2.

 

Apparently for the writers, there is no storyline or whatever fans have been asking for in regards to Dean. They must be good in sticking their fingers in their ears and keeping their eyes shut. 

 

As for the bottle episode spoiler, I tend to like these, too, depending on the "bottle location", that is, but is that seriously worth a spoiler? That they are doing a two-parter bottle episode? Spoiler-wise, it`s super-lame. 

[DittyDotDot]

I LOVE BOTTLE EPISODES. I especially love the idea of a bottle episode featuring just Sam and Dean.

For those who don't know what a bottle episode is, it's basically an episode where the characters of a show stay in one place the entire time. So only one set. They also usually take place in one instance of time. So like the episode could basically just be Sam and Dean stuck in a room for an hour or 2 hours since it's a two-parter.

Now this is usually done with larger casts. So it'll be interesting to see how they work it with only two characters. But I am so down for an episode where Sam and Dean just hang out and talk. I am ready for this. I hope they make it as awesome as I'm hoping it will be.

 

I'm generally not too keen on bottle episodes as they usually are done for cost saving reasons and usually aren't born out of storytelling reasons. But, it could be that it's not a traditional bottle episode--Clip Show wasn't a traditional clip show episode (which generally are also done for cost reasons). They do have a tendency to try and twist these things around. When they say "the same location", it may not necessarily mean the same room or set (which is what traditional bottle episodes do), but could just mean the same town.

 

Maybe it'll be something I used to want to see, the boys stuck in one town for weeks or even months rather than their usual couple-day stints. Being immersed in a community and drawn into the local scene while digging into a mystery they just can't figure out. They usually just roll through town and only come in contact with a couple of folks involved in the case. This way they could get mixed up with some of the civilians and get some local flavor. Plus, it has some great possibilities for some good character beats--I can imagine Dean getting really impatient and antsy staying in one town for so long. I don't think they've ever stayed in the same location for more than one episode...have they?

 

I don't know, since they have the LoL and the show is less of a road show now, I haven't been so intrigued by this idea, but back in S1-S4, I thought it had some real possibilities, maybe it still does?

Edited July 22, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

I've come up with a new source of spoilers. I'll call it Wardrobe Intelligence, or WARDINT for short.  Enjoy the pretty as I spin a temporal theory:

 

 

Screen grab from S10 finale.

Dean: Black T-shirt, red layer, blue layer

Sam: Red/Blue plaid shirt, green layer

 

 

 

Source: @guanacotruck

BTS as they grab food during EP 1 filming (today)

Jensen (Dean): Black T-shirt

Jared (Sam): Blue and red plaid shirt

Observation: They are in the SAME clothes as the finale - just no outer layers

 

 

 

Source: paparrazi Nigel Horsley getting a BTS during filming shot

EP3: "Catching Rowena" (Note: other same-day BTS shots show Dean in the hat, Dean getting knocked back by Rowena, and Sam holding onto Rowena like she's his prisoner.)

Dean: Black T-shirt, Hawaiian overshirt

Sam: Blue & Red Plaid shirt

Rowena: Blonde wig. big sunglasses and black dress

Observation: Dean appears to have thrown on a Hawaiian shirt (and hat per other photos), likely in disguise to confront Rowena. Sam is still in the Red and Blue plaid shirt.

 

 

 

 

Sources: http://rhaxta.tumblr.com(screen shot of video for first, regular photo for second) during night shoot.  Misha/Cas had red eyes that night in other closeups.

Dean: Black T-shirt, LtBrown-ish jacket (Black T-shirt clearer in other pics, see: https://storify.com/s_verasani/spn11-actionackles)

Sam: Red and Blue plaid shirt, Green jacket

Rowena: Red hair is back, black dress, she's in iron chains

Cas: Red eyes, looking kinda rough

Observations: Rowena is the boy's prisoner, I think they are in the SAME CLOTHES still, Cas still suffering from Beastialus spell

 

 

 

 

sources: screen shot of Jared Padelecki video on his facebook (Day 1 of filming, EP-3 filming, in Bunker), @jensenackles twitter post for photo (BTS's shot)

Dean: Black T-shirt

Sam: Changes his shirt at last, orange plaid!

Cas: In the usual suit, no clue about the eyes as this pic is BTS

Observations: I think they get back to the bunker at last and Sam gets a shower and a change of clothes!

 

Speculation on timing and sequence:

S10 Finale and S11EP1 thru EP 3 midway (at least) are all within a day or few days of each other.  Either that or Sam really needs to change his shirts more often.

Suspected sequence:

EP1: Immediate aftermath of finale

EP2: still in aftermath

EP3: they find Rowena in some warm/sunny place and she's in disguise, they capture her and take her to Cas to fix the spell, they go back to the bunker

 

And thus ends my WARDINT assessment.  Sorry for the length.  Not sorry for the pretty.

Edited July 24, 2015 by SueB

[Mick Lady]

Well, I have at least six black V-neck T-shirts.

And did you notice, Cas is wearing a trench coat in every shot!?

 

Only kidding SueB! I think you found a great idea for piecing together what the hell they're trying to do. I only made fun of it because I know you have a keen sense of humor! Keep looking and report what you find. I'm dying for spoilers!

[DittyDotDot]

Okay, I've finally gotten around to watching a few of the Comic Con videos and I'm now convinced they're gonna make Crowley try to be Death--not convinced he can actually be Death, though, so I'm going with Crowley attempting a new power grab for now. Either that or Crowley is most sincerely dead. As a side note, I thought Mark Sheppard was kinda surly this year. Not bad, just more like, "What am I doing here, I can't talk about much of anything."

 

I haven't watched all the roundtable interviews, but when was it mentioned Sam was going to have visions? The only mention I saw was Jensen saying there will be premonitions "so to speak." But, that was in answer to the question about what kind of connection Dean will have to the Darkness, so I think he wasn't speaking about Sam there.

 

I only watched one of Misha's roundtables, but it appears he's going to be under the spell for a while. I'm guessing like SueB said, probably at least three episodes. Found it telling how most of his interview was about GIWISHES and not the show, though.

 

Other impressions:

• They should have Dabb do the talking more often. He comes off as genuinely excited, gives good answers without spoiling things too much--cute he was about Crowley, though--and doesn't get all defensive, but has a good sense of humor about it all. His big drawback is how fast he talks.
• I found the actual panel itself to be kind of a waste of time. They were all having fun and it was entertaining enough, but nothing we didn't already know came out of it and it mostly was just lots of antics.
• It's very heartening that all the folks said there was going to be a return to the boys being united. That makes me so very optimistic for this coming season...which only means it'll probably end in heartache for me, right? Oh well, I'm kind of enjoying being excited about the show again, I think I'm going to try and continue to ride that feeling for a while.

[Demented Daisy]

Okay, thinking about it, and Supernatural may be straying a little too close to Haven territory for my tastes.

 

I've been saying for the past year or so that someone at Haven might be watching Supernatural (Dwight has been called "Moose" at least once), but I'm starting to wonder if the reverse is true, as well.

 

After the season finale, I said that the eruption of the Darkness reminded me of the Troubles exploding from Duke's body.  Likewise, the Darkness reminds me of the "thinnies" and the dimension on the other side.  (The one that drove Dave mad.)  And, duh, I just realized that the female personification of the Darkness (maybe) is called Amara.  Last season on Haven, the Big Bad was Mara (an entity from that other dimension).

 

Now, I'm not saying that someone from SPN is plagarizing Haven.  It's just an awful lot of coincidences, that's all.  Maybe someone at SPN is a Stephen King fan.  He created the "todash" space -- a void filled with darkness and monsters.  The Old Ones (mistakenly) made a door to it, when they should have locked it off entirely....

Edited July 26, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[mertensia]

Maybe they both see visions- sent by God.

[DittyDotDot]

Okay, thinking about it, and Supernatural may be straying a little too close to Haven territory for my tastes.

 

[...]

 

Now, I'm not saying that someone from SPN is plagarizing Haven.  It's just an awful lot of coincidences, that's all.  Maybe someone at SPN is a Stephen King fan.  He created the "todash" space -- a void filled with darkness and monsters.  The Old Ones (mistakenly) made a door to it, when they should have locked it off entirely....

 

I've noticed, in general, many genre shows tend to pull from the same material. Just before Supernatural was doing the apocalypse, there was a whole host of other shows doing an apocalypse of some sort too: Jericho, Jeremiah. And The Walking Dead premiered just after Supernatural was done with their apocalypse. There was a whole spate of demon/monster shows that seemed to spring up in the wake of Supernatural's success: Haven, Sleepy Hallow, Constantine, Grimm, but I'm guessing that actually has more to do with the success of the X-files than anything. I've just noticed these things go in cycles. For a while there, after the success of Buffy, vampires were everywhere--even Lincoln was a vampire slayer. Aliens have been out of fashion for a while now, but I think witches are kind of the hot thing lately. That and superheroes.

 

Ugh, witches! ;)

Edited July 26, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

Okay, thinking about it, and Supernatural may be straying a little too close to Haven territory for my tastes.

I've been saying for the past year or so that someone at Haven might be watching Supernatural (Dwight has been called "Moose" at least once), but I'm starting to wonder if the reverse is true, as well.

After the season finale, I said that the eruption of the Darkness reminded me of the Troubles exploding from Duke's body. Likewise, the Darkness reminds me of the "thinnies" and the dimension on the other side. (The one that drove Dave mad.) And, duh, I just realized that the female personification of the Darkness (maybe) is called Amara. Last season on Haven, the Big Bad was Mara (an entity from that other dimension).

Now, I'm not saying that someone from SPN is plagarizing Haven. It's just an awful lot of coincidences, that's all. Maybe someone at SPN is a Stephen King fan. He created the "todash" space -- a void filled with darkness and monsters. The Old Ones (mistakenly) made a door to it, when they should have locked it off entirely....

I don't think they are plagiarizing. Like DDD said stuff gets recycled and revamped.

The Mara is used in various forms pretty often in horror stories. They can induce nightmares in Germanic lore (torchwood did an episode with fairies being part Mara) so I wouldn't mind if The Darkness/Amara was used in that way. Like maybe Sam or Dean are experiencing things that are really nightmares and they can't tell the difference. That might be why we see Dean in a Hawaiian shirt. Maybe that's actually a dream /nightmare scenario where he thinks he's on vacation but maybe it's something else.

[DittyDotDot]

I don't think they are plagiarizing. Like DDD said stuff gets recycled and revamped.

The Mara is used in various forms pretty often in horror stories. They can induce nightmares in Germanic lore (torchwood did an episode with fairies being part Mara) so I wouldn't mind if The Darkness/Amara was used in that way. Like maybe Sam or Dean are experiencing things that are really nightmares and they can't tell the difference. That might be why we see Dean in a Hawaiian shirt. Maybe that's actually a dream /nightmare scenario where he thinks he's on vacation but maybe it's something else.

 

::head/desk::

 

I hadn't made the Amara/Mara connection. So very obvious. I kept trying to think of how they were going to make a jokey nickname out of it like they did with Richard Roman in S7.

 

In Buddhism, Mara is a deity (or a demon) who represents the death of spirituality...right? I'm not Buddhist, I seem to remember reading this, once upon a time. Also, isn't Mara represented as a grim reaper of sorts? Well, that's kind of interesting to ponder now.

[Aeryn13]

The meaning changes quite a bit between both names, "Mara" means "bitter" (which is fitting for the character in Haven when we finally learned somewhat of her backstory) whereas "Amara" is said to mean "eternal beauty" and sounds very close to "amare" which is Latin for "love". 

 

I think the writers were looking for a name that sounded suitably "ancient". And Vampire Diaires had a character with this name in its fifth Season. So it could be recycled within the network.

[catrox14]

Sooooo...this happened today.  Jensen trolling, spoiling, or foilering?

T

imothy Omundson ‏@Omundson 1h1 hour ago

Timothy Omundson retweeted Fangasm

 

BOOM! #SPNFamily #CainsBeard

Timothy Omundson added,

Fangasm @FangasmSPN
.@JensenAckles : the thing is we never see dean kill Cain #DCComics

 

[Mick Lady]

Oh, great catrox14, thank you so much for this.::Raging sarcasm:: Just what I needed to hear. I'm sitting here trying to figure out Dot's theories, and now you wander in all innocent and shit and drop this bomb!

 

On a lighter note, this "Bottle Episode". Didn't I read here that one episode will take place entirely in the Impala?

 

Now, one question. Where is the MoC now? If Cain is alive, could he have taken it back? And if he did, why was The Darkness still unleashed? If he didn't, where the hell is it?

 

I can't believe you guys have me sitting around thinking about this stuff...I love it!

[DittyDotDot]

On a lighter note, this "Bottle Episode". Didn't I read here that one episode will take place entirely in the Impala?

 

Yes and no. Episode 4 is supposed to be all from the Impala's POV. Doesn't mean it all has to be inside the car, but since Jensen referenced the movie Locke, it could be. It could be that there are a couple scenes outside the car though, just near enough that Baby can see and watch them.

 

However, the "bottle" episode sounds like a different episode and like it's a two-parter.

[SueB]

Now, one question. Where is the MoC now? If Cain is alive, could he have taken it back? And if he did, why was The Darkness still unleashed? If he didn't, where the hell is it?

I think the Mark is truly gone or the Darkness wouldn't have been unleashed.

 

Now, this is the SECOND time Jensen has posited a theory out there.  First was "where IS the Mark?" and now "Cain's death wasn't on-screen".  It's possible he's spoiling but I wonder if this time he's just having fun speculating too.  

[Wynterwolf]

I think the Mark is truly gone or the Darkness wouldn't have been unleashed.

 

 

Argh, Jensen!!!!  Here's the thing though... A Key doesn't disappear once it unlocks it's Lock, so could he be saying that they might have to find it again, to relock the Darkness away?  (I still haven't seen the last few eps, so if there's expo that contradicts this as a possibility, sorry!!)

 

ETA:  What if it did go back to Lucifer?  

Edited July 27, 2015 by Wynterwolf

[Demented Daisy]

I think that we can all agree that they kept Cain's death offscreen so they could potentially bring him back.  But I agree with SueB -- if the Darkness has been unleashed, then all locks/Marks must have been destroyed.  They probably wanted to keep it open ended with Cain, but the later storyline development made it impossible.  But, hey, maybe Cain is one of Sam's "visions".  He could have intel on the Mark that the boys need.

 

Speaking of visions... if the Darkness is truly amoral (as AwesomO pointed out, which makes it similar to Soulless Sam), perhaps Amara doesn't want to do evil.  Perhaps the Darkness simply wishes to exist outside its void.  That would put Sam and Dean in a rather awkward position.

 

Imagine -- they all want to stuff the Darkness back into the void.  It doesn't want to hurt anyone, but it will defend itself.  So if they leave the Darkness alone, it won't destroy humanity.  A long, drawn-out, Apocalypse-type war will take many human lives.

 

It falls into the show's longest-standing theme.  What do the Winchesters do with a monster that doesn't kill?  Do they take the risk or do they take it out?

[DittyDotDot]

Argh, Jensen!!!!  Here's the thing though... A Key doesn't disappear once it unlocks it's Lock, so could he be saying that they might have to find it again, to relock the Darkness away?  (I still haven't seen the last few eps, so if there's expo that contradicts this as a possibility, sorry!!)

 

I don't recall anything contradicting that idea. It's all kind of interpretation. Death said the Mark was the lock and key that held back the Darkness. Without it the Darkness would be set free. So, it could very well be that the Mark still exists, just doesn't have a bearer to create the lock and key situation. Personally, I think the Mark is gone only because I think TPTB are moving away from it now. It served it's purpose for them and now they have the Darkness to deal with. But I don't think the idea that the Mark could still be out there is all that far-fetched.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Jensen is just thinking out loud with these things though. I think he's been having fun messing with us fans for a while now.

Imagine -- they all want to stuff the Darkness back into the void.  It doesn't want to hurt anyone, but it will defend itself.  So if they leave the Darkness alone, it won't destroy humanity.  A long, drawn-out, Apocalypse-type war will take many human lives.

 

It falls into the show's longest-standing theme.  What do the Winchesters do with a monster that doesn't kill?  Do they take the risk or do they take it out?

 

I really like this idea.

[Wynterwolf]

They are definitely at a fork in the road, one way they could move on to something different, or the other way they could be setting something up to close the loop on the show, which would mean readdressing the squabbling between Lucifer and Michael.  This could be a way to give them a plausible reason to reopen the cage, if they have to get the Key from Lucifer in order to lock the Darkness away again.  

[Demented Daisy]

I don't recall anything contradicting that idea. It's all kind of interpretation. Death said the Mark was the lock and key that held back the Darkness. Without it the Darkness would be set free. So, it could very well be that the Mark still exists, just doesn't have a bearer to create the lock and key situation. Personally, I think the Mark is gone only because I think TPTB are moving away from it now. It served it's purpose for them and now they have the Darkness to deal with. But I don't think the idea that the Mark could still be out there is all that far-fetched.

 

Which makes me wonder -- if the Darkness is shoved back into the void, what kind of lock/key will God come up with to keep it there?  Will someone have to be cursed with the Mark again?

They are definitely at a fork in the road, one way they could move on to something different, or the other way they could be setting something up to close the loop on the show, which would mean readdressing the squabbling between Lucifer and Michael.  This could be a way to give them a plausible reason to reopen the cage, if they have to get the Key from Lucifer in order to lock the Darkness away again.  

 

Personally, I hope not.  I feel like the Lucifer part of the story has been done to death and I hope they come up with something new.  

[DittyDotDot]

Personally, I hope not.  I feel like the Lucifer part of the story has been done to death and I hope they come up with something new.  

 

Yeah, I'm not too fond of the idea of them messing with the cage. Somehow it seems like it would make S1-S4 seem rather moot.

 

The more I think about it I like the idea of the Darkness just being left alone in the end. It would be interesting if the supernatural all banded together to try and stuff it back in the void and humanity (via Sam and Dean) stood up against that happening. It would kind of fit the idea of the meek (humanity) inheriting the earth.

[Aeryn13]

 

Sooooo...this happened today.  Jensen trolling, spoiling, or foilering?

 

I think he is speculating and more importantly wishing. Tim O.`s Cain was the best guest star this show had on in years and him and Jensen had magnificent chemistry. So, just as Jensen said he would love to have Benny back, I`m sure he would love to have Cain back. His character had great dynamic scenes with both these characters.

 

However, the writers barely got out of "hey, wait a minute, why wasn`t the darkness unleashed when Dean turned into a teenager and the MOC was gone?" with the loophole of "because Cain was still alive back then and his MOC functioned just fine". Do I think that was actually planned? No, I think since the darkness and the last minute exposition on it got pulled out of their collective asses at, literally the last minute, it was just a fortunate conincidence. A good writer with a pre-planned story would have brought in that entire lock and key story way earlier and milked it for all its dramatic weight. But alas.

 

Now I also think they at least read this fan explanation and had a "OMG, yeah, good thing that worked out" moment. So they should at least know that if they suddenly reveal Cain to be alive, they will have led their entire Season Finale ad absurdum because why then, was the darkness released? 

 

At least I expect such miniscule logical thinking even from the current writers. So IF Cain were to be brought back, it would IMO be done as actually brought back, not revealed he wasn`t killed.  

[7kstar]

Yeah, I'm not too fond of the idea of them messing with the cage. Somehow it seems like it would make S1-S4 seem rather moot.

 

The more I think about it I like the idea of the Darkness just being left alone in the end. It would be interesting if the supernatural all banded together to try and stuff it back in the void and humanity (via Sam and Dean) stood up against that happening. It would kind of fit the idea of the meek (humanity) inheriting the earth.

If they really want to take this story into a interesting new territory this would be the direction to go and it would fit with the boys getting back to the basics and causing the least harm. 

 

Plus it would the benefit of humans being more important than all the supernatural with all its strength and special powers as they should be the ones easily taken out, but like ants keep coming.  Maybe it's because they don't have the special stuff (humans/Dean&Sam) that makes them more important because they have to think to survive...

 

I think the Mark is truly gone or the Darkness wouldn't have been unleashed.

 

Now, this is the SECOND time Jensen has posited a theory out there.  First was "where IS the Mark?" and now "Cain's death wasn't on-screen".  It's possible he's spoiling but I wonder if this time he's just having fun speculating too.  

Well Jensen does like misleading us.  I mean he made us think about Purgatory when it wasn't what we thought it could mean...and he knows how much we would like to see Cain come back.

 

IA  @Aeryn13 the logically thinking is more a fluke with the current writers, I just don't see the planning but they also have shown that they would do something that just doesn't make any sense.  Hence my reason for stating  Mick Lady's favorite..."which cannon?"  :)

Edited July 27, 2015 by 7kstar

[catrox14]

I've been thinking way too much about this whole Cain being dead or not and the Mark and de-aged Dean and it affecting whose the Darkness Dam etc.  Bear with me, if you want, as I shred canon but it could work.

 

Death: Lucifer passed the Mark to Cain, who passed the Mark to you, the proverbial finger in the dike.

 

then later

 

Death: So I could remove the Mark, but only if you will share it with another…

(Death leans down so the he is eye to eye with Dean)

…to ensure that the lock remains unbroken and the Darkness remains banned.

 

Now that wording is kind of tricky and leaves open a couple of things, IMO. It doesn't say that the Mark MUST be shared in order to keep out the Darkness. It doesn't say that two people have to have the Mark and be alive at the same time to keep out the Darkness. Just that someone has to have it to keep out the Darkness since it's both Lock and Key

 

It also doesn't say that if two people share the Mark that they share the equal burden/effects of being the Darkness Dam at the same time. Passing it on doesn't seem to mean the original bearer is necessarily free of the burden of the Mark as we saw with Cain. 

 

What if when Dean was de-aged and lost the Mark that it shifted the burden of Darkness Dam back to Cain who was still alive.  The de-aging could have triggered his current relapse but he chose to kill his own "poison issue" rather than just anyone .

 

Then once Dean is re-aged the Darkness Dam burden shifted back to him as the most recent recipient of the Mark. At that point Cain's status wouldn't have made any difference in keeping the Darkness out because it was fully Dean's burden again. 

 

On the flip side, we could still have Cain back again. Because Death wouldn't let him die in order to keep the Darkness in case something happened to Dean. Or Dean never did kill Cain because the Mark wouldn't actually let him kill him even with the First Blade. I mean what if Cain had mistakenly believed he could be killed but the Mark wasn't going to let him be killed no matter what. 

 

So many thoughts on this. 

[Mick Lady]

Wynterwolf's idea of Lucifer being back has really grabbed me! I don't know if this means anything or not, but I bet you guys do know. In the "Hillywood" Supernatural parody, the actual actors working on the show had to be filmed by the studio, using a "white screen" and was shown at the very end. Lucifer was in this part of the video, along with Sam, Dean, Caz, and Crowley. Does this mean anything, could he really be back??

[Goldmoon]

Mark Shepard wasn't in the fantastic Hillywood parody.  I have been wondering where MS was.  Anyone know why he didn't participate?

[DittyDotDot]

Wynterwolf's idea of Lucifer being back has really grabbed me! I don't know if this means anything or not, but I bet you guys do know. In the "Hillywood" Supernatural parody, the actual actors working on the show had to be filmed by the studio, using a "white screen" and was shown at the very end. Lucifer was in this part of the video, along with Sam, Dean, Caz, and Crowley. Does this mean anything, could he really be back??

 

The Hillywood Show is completely separate from the show. Those girls put all that together with an assist from Osric, Richard and Rob while they were all in Vegas. That's not to say the show won't go there, but the folks that were in that video just happened to be guests at the Vegas Con. Not all the guests chose to participate. It sounds like none of them really knew what it would actually turn out to be, but were told it would be something for the fans. Richard and Rob did a lot to get people on-board with the idea.

 

Isn't Mark Pelligrino working on another show right now? Or wait, did it get cancelled? I can't remember.

 

 

ETA: You know they don't have to mess with the cage for them to bring Mark Pelligrino back though. He could come back in these visions somehow.

Edited July 27, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

From way back:

I'm curious about this one, as long as they don't do something silly like the Bones episode done from the perspective of the kid who had been murdered.  (They brought in a "psychic" who told them the ghost of the kid was there, watching them investigate.  It was awful -- the actors talked to the camera like they were talking to the victim.)

 

For me, that works better if the POV source has a point of view that we hear commentary from to go along with it. Otherwise for me it's too much explanation/exposition as to why we, the viewer are seeing the show that way. The show Crossing Jordan did a totally creepy episode this way shot mainly from the point of view of a shooting victim who also happened to have been poisoned by fugu (sp? he was shot at a Japanese restaurant) and so was paralyzed. We heard his running commentary in his head as he pleaded for them to figure out that he wasn't dead... we also, however, learned that he was a complete jerk (we saw flashback scenes of his interactions with the characters we saw in his point of view that explained why he would be very lucky if they cared about saving him if they even found out he was still alive). And after promising God or whoever would listen that he would change if they saved him, we also learned he was a hypocrite, because he totally lied about changing his ways after he was saved. The ending was completely creepy, because let's just say that he was saved for the short-term, but Karma caught up with him in the end, and our final point of view was the body bag being zipped up over the camera where he was - maybe - really dead this time (but no one involved would've cared if he wasn't at that point either, so... yeah they weren't going to be checking that hard).

 

All this to say that I'm not sure how a Baby point of view would work since we wouldn't have Baby's thoughts to fill out what was going on and why, so for me, I'd like it if some sort of entity were stuck in Baby - not giving Baby life, but literally stuck there for some reason. Like trapped by a symbol on a paper on top of the vent or something - and maybe had some primitive thought or musings about what was going on. Maybe one of the bad guys could've sent the entity as a spy and it got stuck. (Like Crowley's "fly on the wall" coin he stuck in Baby - which I'm sure I remember reading some interesting fanfic on what that thing let Crowley hear.)

 

Here's the thing though... A Key doesn't disappear once it unlocks it's Lock, so could he be saying that they might have to find it again, to relock the Darkness away?

 

Dean is right: Death is way too cryptic. Just talk straight you old grouch. The lock and also key thing doesn't make sense to me. Why not just say that the mark of Cain is a lock? Mark on someone means lock intact/closed, no mark on someone = lock broken. The finger in the dike thing makes more sense, but makes the original lock and key thing even less sense-making to me. (Since the finger isn't anything like a key, but instead like a stopgap).

 

The more I think about it I like the idea of the Darkness just being left alone in the end. It would be interesting if the supernatural all banded together to try and stuff it back in the void and humanity (via Sam and Dean) stood up against that happening. It would kind of fit the idea of the meek (humanity) inheriting the earth.

 

I think I like the idea of sending the Darkness to purgatory. It would have much more space to roam around and it can interact with the leviathans and other monsters. If it really is immoral, it wouldn't care that they were monsters, and purgatory would likely be much more interesting than whatever void it was locked up in. Since Eve is gone - potentially - purgatory could likely use a force for order anyway. Maybe immorality has OCD and can organize / compartmentalize all of the monsters.

 

Totally Dean's type.  And yes, I suspect she will know all "his little thoughts and secrets".  I can only hope she has Meg-class snark. 

 

Now, I'm imagining someone like that djinn in that X-Files episode where everyone got their wishes granted, except it was more like making a wish to a vengeance demon,* and therefor not necessarily what you really wanted in the end. I loved how that djinn drove Mulder completely crazy until he finally said he thought she granted the wishes the way she did just because she was such a bitch. But somehow you rooted for the djinn, because people really don't think about consequences enough**, so they often deserved what they got. She was awesome... and bitchy - hee. (And I loved how Scully was all "nope, not touching that one with a 10 foot pole... just not worth it.")

 

* ( from Buffy - those in the know in that verse are afraid to even mention their wishes out loud... and for good reason.)

** advice: Do not wish for peace on earth. Just don't.

Edited July 27, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[DittyDotDot]

For me, that works better if the POV source has a point of view that we hear commentary from to go along with it. Otherwise for me it's too much explanation/exposition as to why we, the viewer are seeing the show that way.

 

I don't know. I wonder if they'll just stage exposition heavy scenes right next to Baby rather than following the guys inside a house or something like that.

 

It could work really well. Like say, Sam and Dean go inside a house to do their suit and tie schtick, but we stay with Baby and see other aspects of the case unfold unbeknownst to Sam and Dean. So, in theory, we the audience should be ahead of Sam and Dean in the investigation. I don't think we need the running commentary as long as they do the show part well--which isn't always this show's strong suit.

 

I'm really curious about this episode, but it's being written by Robbie Thompson, who IMO has a tendency to be overly "cute" with these types of episodes, so I'm trying not to get too excited yet.

Edited July 27, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[Demented Daisy]

http://tvline.com/2015/07/27/ncis-season-13-premiere-spoilers-gibbs-bleeding/

Since the finale of Supernatural, fans have been wondering: Will there be consequences for Dean after he killed Death? –Ana

 

Rest assured there will be repercussions “to a certain extent — and probably in the first batch of episodes, we’ll start to address that,” executive producer Jeremy Carver teases. “You can imagine that it causes some issues.”

 

 

Any scoop on where our Supernatural boys will be in Season 11? Particularly Cas? —Meg

 

Cas has a lot on his plate, like “dealing with the effects of the attack dog spell and the stabbing of Crowley and The Darkness,” Misha Collins previews. Speaking of that pre-biblical foe, “It is a very, very big bad ominous force that angels only heard of as a scary bedtime story,” the actor explains. “Cas didn’t think that The Darkness was a real thing. So it’s that old of a force.”

 

The stabbing of Crowley?