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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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rue721

rue721

SWERVE: What if Death brings John to the proceedings and to set the natural order John has to be the one that kills Dean. Or separately Sam goes back to the psychic to summon John to try and save Dean.  What if JOHN takes on the Mark because of a loophole with the Father saving the Son.

 

John died in Dean's place, so if they're resetting the natural order, they could have John take Dean's place again. Dean could die and he could live.

 

That might lead to the "Sam and John have to work together to save Dean" storyline that I've been hoping for since the beginning of this season, so I'd be delighted :)

 

Does Death reap souls that have been demons before? I've never even thought about it until now. 

 

Does Death intervene in these situations? Is that all in Crowley's realm? The death and life of demons? Is there a demon reaper? I

 

Demon souls are from people who have already died. Presumably, they were reaped and brought to Hell, where they became demons.

 

When they get shot with the Colt or stabbed with the knife, I think it's like they evaporate into nothingness. They still don't really "die" per se. And yeah, "conservation of energy" and all that -- it doesn't really make sense in the actual world that that could happen. But that's how the show seems to treat it.

 

Cured demon souls (from people that have already physically died) are such a weird edge case, though. Since their bodies have already died, and souls are immortal, how COULD they die again? Can they possess new people, even though they're not demons anymore? What happens to the soul of the person the demon is possessing, if the demon is cured while possessing him? Well anyway, I doubt that the writers have any idea about any of that, so there probably aren't any answers, even fanwank-able answers.

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catrox14

catrox14

I'm now leaning towards Death handing Dean the Scythe.  I don't think I like that idea very much depending on who Dean has to reap.  This is going to be awful isn't it?  And yeah I'm not cool with the whole giant Scythe thing. If only the rings still were around.

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catrox14

catrox14

Just rip off the band aid LOL.

 

But I'm telling you guys, Dean throwing shit around his room, his form is like a damn baseball player...and that is entirely too hot. Lordy.

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rue721

rue721

Surprisingly good promo!

 

It does look like Death is handing someone the scythe. But is he really going to ask for human/angel sacrifice in return for doing Dean this favor? What's the point of that?

 

Crowley has wormed his way back into my affections. "I gave at the office." Heh. I love that he bothers to be personable, and that he enjoys making light of all these growl-y dudes who are all about their SRS BSNS!!!1! Sad that the King of Hell is the one bright, light-hearted spot left on the show, but what can ya do.

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catrox14

catrox14

I'm trying to think who would be on Death's hit list

 

Cas

Crowley

Lucifer

Sam

Dean

Metatron: Oh shit.  Guys we are totally forgetting that Metatron is still out there. There has to be something here for him to do. What if Death wants Dean to kill Metatron.  OH YES PLEASE

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companionenvy

companionenvy

Hmm... given the wording, I'm hoping Death's "fairly sizable," non-negotiable condition is more complicated than Dean killing one person. This is Death. He sees pretty much everyone, with the possible exception of God, as a potentially annoying but largely insignificant gnat. I can't see any way he's making that big a deal over forcing Dean to reap Sam or Cas, or why he would need Dean's help doing so. My vote is still that  Death wants a non-demonic Dean to agree to rule Hell. 

 

Or...here's a thought... what if the condition is, not that Dean takes over for Death, but that he becomes one of his reapers? I could see a scenario where even Death doesn't have the power to remove the mark from a human, but could do so if that human became a reaper. Doesn't fully track with the Reaper = Angel retcon, but that never made much sense anyway. In that case, no prizes for guessing who Dean's first kill would have to be. 

 

Or I'm overthinking it, and "fairly sizable" is just Death's punny way of referring to the Ginormatron...

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Hana Chan

Hana Chan

(edited)

Whatever Death's demand is, it's got to be something that Dean (uncorrupted by the MoC) would never consider on his worst day in a million years. And it's got to be bad enough that whatever potential consequences of Sam's use of the BOTD seems acceptable in comparison.

Edited by Hana Chan
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Becoming a reaper would fit that description. It also would be the ultimate irony because right now Dean is under the influence of something that makes him immortal and forces him to kill people. And the possible cure would be something that...makes him immortal and his purpose would be to kill people. Just in a different context. It would be the ultimate cosmic punishment in that way and an existance Dean would find abhorrent.

 

But since the promo is pointing to it happening and more especially since I would find it an interesting story, they will not do it. Or even if they do, they`d still deus ex machina fix it after three episodes.  

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oliverwendell

oliverwendell

(edited)

Wow.  They are really making it seem like Dean has to kill Sam to get the Mark off, aren't they?  Are the promo monkeys just being their usual, unsubtle selves?  Or are they running a misdirect?

 

Also, has anyone with the ability to go frame by frame figured out what Dean is seeing in the mirror before he smashes it?

Edited by fourteenwords
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catrox14

catrox14

Wow.  They are really making it seem like Dean has to kill Sam to get the Mark off, aren't they?  Are the promo monkeys just being their usual, unsubtle selves?  Or are they running a misdirect?

 

Also, has anyone with the ability to go frame by frame figured out what Dean is seeing in the mirror before he smashes it?

 

Okay, I admit it. I did ....I'm pathetic.

 

He saw Cas' bloody face and some random guy who I think is the one Sam sees in that house.  But I'm also pretty sure that's a fake out or Dean killed a nest because one of them was a vampire. 

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catrox14

catrox14

Okay I've noodling on Metatron's role here. 

 

I'm calling it that Metatron is posing as Death like he did Gabriel. Metatron has every reason to put those boys against each other. And that would resolve why Death would want Dean to kill Sam.

 

If Death wants the natural order restored he would go all the way back to when Dean first should have died wouldn't he?

 

That would also explain why Death has that annoying smirk and overly Large Scythe. 

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catrox14

catrox14

How cool would it be if Dean sussed out that Death isn't Death and he takes the Scythe and makes a move like he's going to lop off Sam's head but wheels and lops of Death's head instead and it turns into Metatron's head falling off his shoulders.  Man that would be awesome.  If Death doesn't complain about not having any pickle chips we'll know the gig is up. 

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catrox14

catrox14

I really don't remember but I thought when he was in the library he either had some of his own left or grabbed some of Cas' but I don't remember 

 

However, he has the demon tablet so I suspect he'll use that to his advantage for some kind of power.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)

Probably.  Kind of a cop out to me, but whatever.

 

ETA  Unless Ditty's right and he's who Crowley sent his minion after.  I could see Rowena using the demon tablet to try to kill Crowley.

 

Unless she dies in the finale, of course.

Edited by Demented Daisy
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Ria

Ria

(edited)

A couple of seasons ago, Metatron zapped in and saved Kevin from Crowley and blasted Crowley against a wall if memory serves me right.

 

As for the promo: how tiresome to hear Sam say he was going to save Dean regardless of the consequences. Can we get off this merry go round?

Edited by Ria
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SueB

SueB

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Well I didn't expect that.  I figured we were gearing up for a confrontation straight away.  But it sure looks like Dean goes on a hunting-spree.  With a noticeable body count.  Since they show two dead bodies and one is not the girl chained to the bed (and yuck, BTW), it sounds like he's not killing EVERYONE ... just ya know, bad guys.  Or bad-guy adjacent. 
 
No clue what Death wants but since Dean summoned him, I think it's actually Death.  Metatron can't fly without grace.
 

Death was *really* pissed the last time they summoned him and bound him. There were no loopholes in his threat. Of course, maybe summoning but *not* binding is okay, but why would Death even bother to come without being bound? And he despises being used to clean up the boys' messes. Hmmm.

I think Death might be intrigued enough by the "annoying little protazoa" with the Mark of Cain to show.  And I don't think he's binding him.  And even if he was TRYING to bind Death, Death wouldn't kill him just to be pissy because he would know it was what Dean wanted.  I gotta say, as "Plan B's" go, I like calling Death as a option.  He's always been straight with Dean.  I know Dean admires him.  And THAT is a weird-ass comment. 
 

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catrox14

catrox14

No clue what Death wants but since Dean summoned him, I think it's actually Death.  Metatron can't fly without grace.

 

I would think Metatron would have stolen another angel's grace by now. Because he's an asshole.

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catrox14

catrox14

No clue what Death wants but since Dean summoned him, I think it's actually Death.  Metatron can't fly without grace.

 

I would think Metatron would have stolen another angel's grace by now. Because he's an asshole.

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7kstar

7kstar

I think I will see if Dean as a reaper is the winner.  I thought Death wanted to teach Dean as though he held a special spot in his family of sorts.  Not sure if any of this is making sense, since I'm so tired right now.

 

I'm luke warm about the finale.  Hoping I find more to like.

 

 

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bethy

bethy

There are no spoilers in this speculation, but I had this thought in light of some conversation in the episode thread regarding foreshadowing and the boys' deaths.

 

What if this whole "We love SPN and are excited to have it go as long as it can" is a huge misdirect and this IS the last season and both Winchesters die in the season finale? What if none of the SPN people were at the upfronts for next year because THEY WON'T ACTUALLY BE ON THE CW NEXT YEAR?

 

Yeah. Seems unlikely, but that might be kind of an awesome way to go out. :)

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Trigger Warning: Discussion of suicide

 

I think Dean was  talking about himself and Sam as the bad blood. Cain's mission was eliminating his poison issue. Sam keeps saying he can't live without Dean. Dean already has loathed himself forever and he called himself a dick in The Prisoner.  He beat the shit out of Cas and told Cas and Sam to leave him alone.

 

I am now  I'm strongly leaning towards  Sam and Dean both dead because it's going to be a murder-suicide by Dean or suicide pact between Dean and Sam to finish Cain's mission which fulfill Cain's prophecy.  I think Dean kills Crowley because he can and he wants too which is fine with me.  I think he kills Cas to stop Cas from killing him before his kills Sam. I think Dean is summoning Death because he wants Death to remove the Mark so that he can kill himself after killing Sam.

 

It could be the most awful cliffhanger ever and it could be Sam and Dean both dead. Death will take Sam to Heaven and Dean to Hell. 

 

That also explains a lot of why Jared and Jensen are raising funds for mental health awareness. I think they know that if the boys kill themselves that's a potentially awful message that goes against everything Sam and Dean have ever done and they feel a responsibility to ensure that the message to fandom is "Always Keep Fighting" and not "Kill yourself because Sam and Dean did"

 

JFC. I hope I'm wrong.

 

ETA: Sam has sacrificed himself to save the world,  I don't think that is same as what I think could happen in the finale with Dean and Sam here. If Dean kills himself to stop killing that's a sacrifice, but if Sam goes with him, then doesn't that seem pointless since Sam thought he was purified in s8?   Or maybe it's just Dean that kills himself because he thinks he's the true poison issue but Sam can't live with Dean dead.  Maybe Death wants both Sam and Dean to restore the natural order?

 

Could we end up with a Romeo and Juliet ending?  Oh man.. One brother thinks the other one is already dead, laments their death, kills himself....the first brother awakes to find the other brother dead and kills himself. 

Edited by catrox14
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

 

hat if this whole "We love SPN and are excited to have it go as long as it can" is a huge misdirect and this IS the last season and both Winchesters die in the season finale? What if none of the SPN people were at the upfronts for next year because THEY WON'T ACTUALLY BE ON THE CW NEXT YEAR?

 

 

This is my speculation as well.  Now the did have the JIBCON this weekend but Jim Michaels was saying on Twitter last night that they don't know who will be back next season because contracts don't come out until July. 

 

I could see Jared and Jensen leaving the show but they don't have the heart to tell the fandom that loves them so much. The show has set up a lot of new characters for a potential spinoff.

 

Man, I've really depressed myself here.

 

Now one happy thought is that maybe the boys leave and Mark and Misha remain to launch a spinoff BUT the door is left open for a movie which they've been wanting to do for a long time.  We get an SPN movie and that's the end.

 

Ugh. I'm sad now.

 

 

HOWEVER! Supposedly this is the poster for s11. 

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CE_P4upUMAAmFgw.jpg:small

 

What if they are all in Hell and that's why it's red?  Then again why do I bother looking at the posters because they are always so terrible and the promo monkeys rarely get anything right.

Edited by catrox14
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bethy

bethy

(edited)

Now y'all have depressed me, too. :) I thought I was being so out there, but if others are also speculating that....

 

ETA: Also, if it ends with Dean in hell, I will not be responsible for my actions. Either of them, really, but if it's Sam in heaven and Dean in hell, I will burn something down.

Edited by bethy
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

Nah, I think they'll both be together in their afterlife. I'd be fine with this being the final season, however, death really means nothing on this show anymore, so I wouldn't get too depressed yet. I just think Dean will offer up both him and Sam in his deal with Death as a way to stop the cycle.

 

Also, I'm not sure the upfronts are an indication of anything. I think there's been a couple years Jared and Jensen weren't at the upfronts. In-fact wasn't there one year there was some great outcry about it?

Edited by DittyDotDot
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Everyone probably dies in the finale and keeping the audience in suspense and talking is priority one.  How do they do that?  By waiting until the last possible second to make contract announcements.

 

But anything is possible, I suppose.

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Altered Reality

Altered Reality

I dunno, I really can't see the studio announcing another season (and committing that much $$) without some assurance that the two leads would be returning.  It's possible one or both could be returning with a reduced schedule, but TPTP have to know that J2 are the draw for this show.  And if the intention was to go with a spin-off rather than the original show, I'd have thought they'd do more press/build up for it.

 

And yes, this could be me whistling in the dark :D

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catrox14

catrox14

 

ETA: Also, if it ends with Dean in hell, I will not be responsible for my actions. Either of them, really, but if it's Sam in heaven and Dean in hell, I will burn something down.

 

The only way I can live with Dean in Hell is if he is the King of Hell.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

I'd be okay with this as the final season if we got a good ending. 

 

 

Okay, I'll admit that I don't know much about how tv works, but since they've already announced S11, this can't be the final season, right?

 

Personally, there aren't enough side characters for a spin off or for SPN to continue without Sam and Dean.

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catrox14

catrox14

I dunno, I really can't see the studio announcing another season (and committing that much $$) without some assurance that the two leads would be returning.  It's possible one or both could be returning with a reduced schedule, but TPTP have to know that J2 are the draw for this show.  And if the intention was to go with a spin-off rather than the original show, I'd have thought they'd do more press/build up for it.

 

And yes, this could be me whistling in the dark :D

 

I think after the colossal blunder of Bloodlines they don't want to announce anything spinoffy until they have their ducks in a row,  If J2 leave, they have the seeds of Jody, Donna, Claire, Cole, Hannah and the other angels in heaven. They have the Stynes as a new big bad, cause no way that's the last of the Stynes.  Cas and Crowley have their own separate fanbases that could possibly support Supernatural for a while. I dunno. It's weird. 

 

But if s10 is not it then IMO s11 will be it for the boys. 

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GirlyGeek

GirlyGeek

You know as much as it depresses me, I don't think I'm gonna feel satisfied by the finale unless all or part of Cains prophecy actually comes true.

I've been having flashes of Sam up against a wall, with Dean stabbing him (but with a look of horror, not vengeance) for months now. And the reverse of that too, with Sam doing the killing. You know, all that Sam has sacrificed and compromised to try and save Dean, and instead he has to be the one to put him down.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

But if this kid was Dean's nurse, then shouldn't we also get a scene with Dean almost killing Sam?  But stopping at the last second?

 

You know, I believe that the show will go to some crazy lengths in order to be shocking, but I'm not convinced it'll include fratricide.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I think Cass stood in for Sam in that regard, DD.

 

I agree, I don't believe they will have either brother kill one or the other. I think they will find a way to avert Cain's prophecy just as they found a way to avert Michael and Lucifer's prophecy. They'll probably come thisclose to fulfilling it, though. You know, for the dramatics of it all.

 

Sheesh, I'm really a downer today, aren't I?

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

But if this kid was Dean's nurse, then shouldn't we also get a scene with Dean almost killing Sam?  But stopping at the last second?

 

You know, I believe that the show will go to some crazy lengths in order to be shocking, but I'm not convinced it'll include fratricide.

 

 

I agree with DDD that Cas was Sam in that part of things to an extent. We might see a beatdown in the finale.

Edited by catrox14
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oliverwendell

oliverwendell

I've been predicting for a while that Dean will kill Sam in the finale, but I thought it would be a mercy killing, to spare Sam from a fate worse than Death just as Cain offered himself up to Lucifer and killed his brother.  I'm still thinking that's what will happen -- only it might be Death doing the bargaining instead of Lucifer.

 

Also, I just want to say that I've come to really enjoy Rowena and want her to stick around.  She's funny, and cute, and evil without remorse.  Whee!

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