Spoilers With Speculation

[AwesomO4000]

I don't understand why not even if they don't share it. It would be even more heartwrenching.  And as much as I think the boys should die together....I can make a case for Sam surviving without Dean. 

 

I didn't say it couldn't happen. I am saying that's not what I would want to happen, unless there's the probability that Dean is going to heaven.

 

And I'm also not so sure about Sam surviving without Dean - maybe more "existing" - especially now after the last episode. He "survived" horribly without Dean as it was in both "Mystery Spot" and season 4. There was season 8, I suppose, though I argue that wasn't living all that well either and/or was more denial. Personally I'd rather forget that all even happened myself, because ugh, I hate the first half of season 8 so, so much... But even taking that into accoumt, after his discussion with Charlie, Sam now seems more like a season 3 or a season 7 Sam version where he very much thinks his happiness is tied up with Dean and hunting. Especially if he thinks/knows Dean is in hell. Sam's already had to go thorough that twice now. I wouldn't want that for him again.

 

Dean himself has gone back and forth on the living without Sam. He couldn't do it at the end of season 2, but he did a somewhat better job of it in the year before season 6.

 

If Dean is going to hell - I'd rather they both went to hell also. Sam can finally be the "Boy King" and he and Dean can rule hell together. After they gank Crowley - or maybe just imprison him for a very, very, very long time... preferably all alone. Or with his dear, old Mum for company, so she can tell him what a disappointment he is for all eternity.

[Demented Daisy]

If Sam and Dean go to Hell, then "Carry On (Wayward Son)" will have been a cruel, cruel joke.

 

IMO, of course.

[GirlyGeek]

Ok, whoa. I wasn't saying I *want* the final scene to be Sam and the car and the beach. Just to be clear :)

Seems a little sappy. But that's where my mind went hearing them talk about the PiPs truck in that ep.

Here's where I'm confused. There's 3 episodes left. Promo for this week is making it look not so epic, but something big has to go down wrt Sam, Dean or Rowena/Crowley. Crap has to hit the fan and get massively escalated to get to finale type craziness, right?

I mean at this point, Dean's pretty in control, Cass has his grace back, Sam's not being completely stupid with his plan...

Just doesn't seem like a lot of time left, unless whatever Cass and Claire step in is part of the big picture somehow.

I haven't heard much about MetaTron and his involvement in the finale, but it feels like he's snuck off and we're supposed to forget about him until he shows up and screws everyone over.

I mean, he doesn't have his grace, but he has the demon tablet and no love for angels. And he seems to want Dean to go dark side. If anyone's gonna involve Lucifer, I'd think it'd be MetaTron. Not Sam.

[DittyDotDot]

Isn't there four episodes left. Not that it gives us much more time for development on all these fronts, but I'm pretty sure they have 23 episodes this season again.

[Demented Daisy]

I think it's four, too.

 

Angel Heart

Dark Dynasty

The Prisoner

Brother's Keeper

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Marvatron put this week's killer angel on his path.

 

ETA  From the FB page:

 

Keeping secrets from Dean won't end well. ‪#‎Supernatural‬ is all new Wednesday! Only 4 episodes left in the season!

 

 

(Emphasis mine.)

Edited April 28, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[GirlyGeek]

Isn't there four episodes left. Not that it gives us much more time for development on all these fronts, but I'm pretty sure they have 23 episodes this season again.

I think it's four, too.

Angel Heart

Dark Dynasty

The Prisoner

Brother's Keeper

Huh. How'd I miss that? Here I was thinking there's only 3! Well that's better.

I'm actually glad there's so many (good) plots and subplots going... For once they all seem to be flowing together toward one thing. Just not quite sure what it is (other than devastating and heartbreaking) ;)

[catrox14]

I can understand the confusion GirlyGeek.  'Angel Heart' on the surface seems like a diversion at the wrong time from TFW vs MoC vs Rowena/Crowley.  I hope somehow this ties back to that.  And then last season around this time we had the Bloodlines crapfest that derailed the arc so I can see why it feels like time is running out.  I hope they learned their lesson to not screw around with the final act of the season by plopping in something unrelated. 

 

Of course, some might argue that Cas' journey and attempt to make amends for what happened the Family Novak is part of his arc but I just don't give two shits about Claire or Amelia or even Jimmy at this point. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

I'm putting my money on Dark Dynasty for the final BIG SHIT HITS THE FAN buildup.

[Omegamom]

The Prisoner is going to set us up. Sam and Cas and Charlie dealing with Rowena, and Dean and Crowley discovering that. Dean will blow up at Sam about keeping the BOTD and whatever spell it is that they have found, which we all know has a bad bad blowback.

;-)

[catrox14]

So, my musings today have lead me to this.:

I've wondered how much of demon!Dean is still lurking in Dean because I think those were demon!Dean's eyes flashing at him in Inside Man.  I don't think it was a thing triggered by Dean subconscious thinking that hustling pool is = demon behavior nor a hallucination. I mean I can't believe the show wants me to walk away thinking that our main characters are demons for hustling pool to get by given their lives.  What I could believe is that demon!Dean wanted to screw with the douchebags because he could. All of which leads me to my crack spec:

The Mark and demon!Dean are fighting for control of Dean. What if demon!Dean is the way to defeat the Mark in the end. Demon!Dean might be the only thing powerful enough to defeat Lucifer if they go after Lucifer. I haven't worked it all out in my head but that's what I'm thinking at the moment.

[SueB]

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/29/supernatural-jensen-ackles-deans-fear-coming-true

Jensen speaks!

 

And yes, Dean is covering up his inner sliding backwards with a 'mask' of happy.  Love his subtle performance. 

[GirlyGeek]

Yep, he's been showing the subtle cracks so well. It's been great to watch and it's nice to have confirmation from Jensen that he's been working that into the character (since we've chatted here about seeing something "off" with him)

Doesn't sound like happy good things are coming though... :(

[catrox14]

I am taking Jensen's comments to mean that demon!Dean lurks.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it :)

[kimrey]

I'm calling it now - Charlie dies in the next episode and that's what sets Dean off.

[AwesomO4000]

I'm calling it now - Charlie dies in the next episode and that's what sets Dean off.

 

Yup, and it'll probably end up being Sam's fault because of his lying about the book.

[kimrey]

Yup. That's pretty much how I see it going down!

Normally I'd say there was no way they'd kill Charlie off because of Robbie Thompson's obsession with her. But they really went out of the way to put her in this episode when I really can't see much of a reason for her to be there. They even filmed this episode last speficially for to accomodate Felicia. Why even bring Charlie in to help with Rowena? They needed to insert her into the episode so they could kill her so Dean would have something to set him off in a big way. And it will be Sam's fault, indirectly since he didn't get rid of the book and Dean will be pissed.

That's my theory!

Edited April 30, 2015 by kimrey

[Goldmoon]

I hope you guys are right!  I HATE Charlie.  I could only hope that she would stay dead and not be brought back through someone's mojo.  Maybe that is why Cas was so off in tonight's episode.  Maybe he can't heal anyone any more and if Charlie dies, she will just stay dead.  Fingers crossed.

[kimrey]

Fingers crossed indeed!

[AwesomO4000]

Oh, man... I don't want to see screw up Sam who has to once again gain Dean's forgiveness though. Generally only to have it thrown in his face at some point later on. I'm conflicted.

[SueB]

I'm calling it now - Charlie dies in the next episode and that's what sets Dean off.

That was my spec when the description came out.  I'm just hoping she's seriously injured, not dead.

[catrox14]

Here's what I don't understand. Why would Sam put the BotD back into Charlie's hands knowing they want to find her? 

 

Oh Sam...:(. I am trying to hold out hope that Sam will end up being right about the book because Sam being right would be a twist no one expects.

Edited April 30, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

Here's what I don't understand. Why would Sam put the BotD back into Charlie's hands knowing they want to find her? 

Seems to me she's trying to run a decryption algorithm in parallel with Rowena.  Maybe as a backup or to put pressure on the witch.  

[rue721]

Why even bring Charlie in to help with Rowena?

 

Charlie's a redheaded woman, so OBVIOUSLY she's going to have to go bad and become a thorn in Sam and Dean's side.

 

Abaddon --> Rowena --> Charlie.

Edited April 30, 2015 by rue721

[GirlyGeek]

Ok, you're all on my list! ;)

Charlie is not gonna die.. lalalalalalala

Seriously though, it wouldn't be SPN if they didn't kill the 'kid sister' type, and it certainly would put Dean into a tailspin.

But I don't want it to happen, and I don't want it to be all Sam's fault that the collateral damage was Charlie, and that that is what sets Dean off. I know we've all been speculating that Sam is going to bring about the thing he fears (in Dean), and this would certainly make that happen.

Ugh, these last few weeks and hiatus are going to kill me. I'm gonna need a lot of (good) fanfic

[Omegamom]

Ok, you're all on my list! ;)

Charlie is not gonna die.. lalalalalalala

Seriously though, it wouldn't be SPN if they didn't kill the 'kid sister' type, and it certainly would put Dean into a tailspin.

But I don't want it to happen, and I don't want it to be all Sam's fault that the collateral damage was Charlie, and that that is what sets Dean off. I know we've all been speculating that Sam is going to bring about the thing he fears (in Dean), and this would certainly make that happen.

Ugh, these last few weeks and hiatus are going to kill me. I'm gonna need a lot of (good) fanfic

Sorry. The promo for next week's episode definitely shows Dean going off because he discovers that Charlie's doing things with the BOTD. Looks exciting!

http://youtu.be/dMqmAzU2ajs

Eep! I just meant to post a link! :-(

And I'm about to hit the road for an eight-hour drive to gymnastics regionals in Estes Park, so I can't stop to edit, sorry, sorry, sorry!

[catrox14]

It's kind of annoying me that they they would use anyone's death to unleash something that's already there! The Mark is not even in remission. It's still bothering Dean, he's just using the kill-a-vamp method of keeping it from totally taking him over again. If demon!Dean comes back out he shouldn't really even give a shit about anything other than doing what he wants for his own reasons.  Theoretically Demon!Dean shouldn't even give a shit about what happens to anyone which would actually be interesting.

 

I suddenly had an image of demon! Dean pulling an 'Angel' spoilers for "Angel" . Do I really have to spoiler tag a show that's been off the air for 12 years (HOLY SHIT! I'm old!)

Holland Manners is hosting a party for Wolfram and Hart at his home. Darla and the other one show up to kill them. Angel decides to do nothing. Lilah pleads with Angel " You can't just leave us here. They'll kill all of us" and Angel says " I just can't seem to care"  before closing the doors.

 

Edited April 30, 2015 by catrox14

[catrox14]

I've been thinking more about Sam's role going forward and my (and others) worries he'll be blamed for whatever bad happens. I don't know if anyone else is like me but I become so engrossed in the angst between Dean and Sam that I forget that neither are to blame for what's happened.

 

They have responsibility for their roles in this but as far as the blame game the real villains here are Crowley and Metatron. They are both to blame for EVERYTHING bad that has happened for the past 3 seasons. So for me, whatever actions Sam takes or doesn't take are ultimately defensive because it's all being done in RESPONSE to the separate agendas that Metatron and Crowley. Even Dean taking on the Mark was in RESPONSE to Metatron wanting to be be the new God because he put a hit out on Kevin and Crowley used Dean for his purposes and turned him into a demon.  Cas being separated from the boys and not being able to help them was because of Metatron stealing his grace.  I'm going to be really annoyed with the show if they forget this is the case and try to paint Sam and Dean as the bad guys here. I'm annoyed with Sam and Dean for not talking about the two people that got them into this mess in the first place and planning something to take both of them out.  Plot for Season 11, maybe?  Heck, I'm annoyed with myself for forgetting this!

 

Now as to the immediate problem of the Book and Sam keeping it:

 

The preview has the character Dean is interrogating saying that the Book can't be destroyed; that it's protected.  So even if Sam had thrown it in the fire nothing would have happened. Heck, I'm even willing to speculate that Sam NOT throwing the book into the fire might have saved all of them, like maybe the the Book emits some kind of power that could have killed Charlie, Sam and Dean once it's actually threatened with destruction.  Now that doesn't change the trust issues brewing but that's nothing new. 

 

From the All Episodes thread:

The question was that Sam would do something to unleash Dean as the new Cain, but he already is the Cain 2.0 especially with Cain supposedly really most sincerely dead. Dean took on the  Mark voluntarily without reading the warning labels. He can call the Blade back to him with telekinesis it seems or the Mark can anyway.  So nothing Sam could do would make that any worse. Dean is managing the bloodlust with killing vamps. It's Dean's disease. Sam can support him and be there for him but ultimately this still comes back to Dean and Crowley.

Edited May 1, 2015 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

I really disagree with the responsibility angle. Crowley and Metatron are villains who manipulated events and people for their own gain but they could only do so much. They could lead the horses - Winchesters in that case - to the water but they couldn`t make them drink. Dean taking on the Mark was ultimately his decision. Crowley facilitated the event of meeting Cain itself but Dean is the one who made a choice.

 

And I`m not saying that to hate on him, far from it. It was actually a choice that I loved because he finally got himself a storyline, even if it was an evil one. I could not have taken more like the nanny/cheerleader stuff of the abominable second half of Season 8. Brain bleach. 

Taking on the MOC was clearly a bad idea from the start, not asking for the warnings Cain wanted to offer because of nihilistic reasons made it worse. But again, I loved every minute of it because...storyline.

 

Right now Sam is responsible for each and every of his actions and if they lead to darkness, then he owns that. It`s actually not helping that Dean is pretty much handling it fine. Cas and Sam and the writers are doing a bad tell vs. show here. I haven`t seen Dean do one truly evil thing with the Mark. The worst was maybe the so-called massacre but even the law gets you off for self defense. Which it was. Meanwhile everyone acts like he just ran into the Jedi temple and slaughtered all the kids and they are two seconds away from losing hm to darkness forever.

 

The only question IMO is now if the Finale is going to be utterly predictable or has at least some twist. Predictable would be a cure, Dean thus loses his storyline that in the end never amounted to much - hello shades of Season 5 and Suck Song - and we`re back with "what is wrong with (dark) Sam". Then Season 11 can end with yet another Suck Song to really drive the insult home. 

[catrox14]

I agree that Sam and Dean have their own responsibilities here, which I did say...and that Dean is responsible for taking on the Mark.   And I am quite sure they will have MORE consequences on top of what they have already experienced

 

. Dean made a reckless and stupid choice to take on the Mark because he was trying to somehow fix what he broke (which he really couldn't) and Sam is making reckless choices to fix Dean but my point is more that the ultimate responsibilities lie with Metatron and Crowley and that they need their comeuppance and consequences too. 

[AwesomO4000]

I've been thinking more about Sam's role going forward and my (and others) worries he'll be blamed for whatever bad happens. I don't know if anyone else is like me but I become so engrossed in the angst between Dean and Sam that I forget that neither are to blame for what's happened.

 

They have responsibility for their roles in this but as far as the blame game the real villains here are Crowley and Metatron. They are both to blame for EVERYTHING bad that has happened for the past 3 seasons. So for me, whatever actions Sam takes or doesn't take are ultimately defensive because it's all being done in RESPONSE to the separate agendas that Metatron and Crowley. Even Dean taking on the Mark was in RESPONSE to Metatron wanting to be be the new God because he put a hit out on Kevin and Crowley used Dean for his purposes and turned him into a demon.  Cas being separated from the boys and not being able to help them was because of Metatron stealing his grace.  I'm going to be really annoyed with the show if they forget this is the case and try to paint Sam and Dean as the bad guys here. I'm annoyed with Sam and Dean for not talking about the two people that got them into this mess in the first place and planning something to take both of them out.  Plot for Season 11, maybe?  Heck, I'm annoyed with myself for forgetting this!

 

Now as to the immediate problem of the Book and Sam keeping it:

 

The preview has the character Dean is interrogating saying that the Book can't be destroyed; that it's protected.  So even if Sam had thrown it in the fire nothing would have happened. Heck, I'm even willing to speculate that Sam NOT throwing the book into the fire might have saved all of them, like maybe the the Book emits some kind of power that could have killed Charlie, Sam and Dean once it's actually threatened with destruction.  Now that doesn't change the trust issues brewing but that's nothing new. 

 

From the All Episodes thread:

The question was that Sam would do something to unleash Dean as the new Cain, but he already is the Cain 2.0 especially with Cain supposedly really most sincerely dead. Dean took on the  Mark voluntarily without reading the warning labels. He can call the Blade back to him with telekinesis it seems or the Mark can anyway.  So nothing Sam could do would make that any worse. Dean is managing the bloodlust with killing vamps. It's Dean's disease. Sam can support him and be there for him but ultimately this still comes back to Dean and Crowley.

 

I apologize for getting detail-y here, because I do agree with your above point that blame definitely needs to fall on both Crowley and Metatron, but I disagree with the above emphasized part. There are many things Sam could do to make it worse and/or (in my opinion) bear much of the responsibility if Dean goes rogue, and this is what I'm afraid of.

 

For example, because Sam has lied and not told Dean about the Book of the Damned being in his possession and so therefor Dean is unprepared for a possible attack, and because of that Dean kills one of the Stynes in defense and in so doing unleashes some kind of magic-backlash / curse / whatever which then really activates the mark of Cain, then that is not Dean's fault, but mainly Sam's. Same if Sam tries some kind of cure from the book and it 1) doesn't work, and backfires with horrible consequences 2) is a trick from Rowena and actually does work but does something horrible she wanted it to do instead (making Sam also a major dupe) or 3) does work, but not as intended and "cures" the curse by turning it on / making it a permanent part of Dean, instead / etc. 4) results in Rowena - or maybe worse Crowley - getting his hands on the book and something horrible happens as a consequence. If any of those scenarios results in the mark getting turned on by accident, Dean having to kill some major threat that Sam released in order to save Sam's ass (including a super-powered Rowena or Crowley *) which then gets the mark going and sends Dean in a tailspin, or gets Dean killed, turning him into a demon again... all of those would be almost entirely on Sam, in my opinion. And the narrative has already laid the groundwork, in my view, with all the lying (when has that ever led to much good on this show?), Sam being reckless, not being overly guilt-ridden over the collateral damage, etc. so that if it does happen in one of these scenarios, they've laid the groundwork for "see, Sam was warned multiple times, and he didn't listen to Dean, and did it anyway, so you shouldn't feel that sorry for him."

 

It could be just me, but I'm seeing the season 4 pattern being repeated here, where even though - arguably - Sam didn't have a whole lot of options then, either, and was also being manipulated and felt desperate, ultimately he made the wrong choice and the whole thing got blamed on him from then on. I'm afraid with the repeated warnings from Dean of "stop trying to fix this. It's dangerous" = "stop using you're powers. It's dangerous", Sam getting reckless, Sam making collateral damage decisions (Susie = Cindy, the nurse?), making alliances with evil people for help in his goal (Rowena = Ruby - and even the dialogue was similar "I don't trust you, but..." but he intends to "use" her anyway - total shades of Ruby for me), "good intentions" to "help" Dean because Dean is "getting out of control" = "too weak." To me, it's looking like damn season 4 all over again - and once was enough for me, thank you very much, and come on, Sam learned that lesson already. Do we really need to turn him into an idiot / screw-up so he can learn it all over again?

 

If any of those above scenario types happens, I think I might finally be done with this show, because I will know that Carver will never let Sam go beyond being the perennial screw up who Dean always has to "pull his ass out of the fire" and causes Dean (and everyone else) nothing but problems that he later must fix (at a price to others). I'll pretend the series ended with Dean in purgatory - as of his revelations in the last episode, Dean seemed to be happiest there with Benny anyway - and bleep blorp ahead to "Fan Fiction" and add my own intermediate plot.

 

(I would've taken this to the "bitterness" thread, but since it contained so many potential spoilers, I couldn't. Sorry about that.)

 

* Which would fit nicely into Cain's prophecy of Dean having to kill Crowley.

Edited May 1, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[Aeryn13]

Of course, but since they are villains and/or antagonists, it`s those kind of acts that I expect from them so it doesn`t bug me so much. I wanted Metatron killed in the Season 9 Finale, though, because what a weasel. Curtis Armstrong is doing a nice job but the character type doesn`t appeal to me. 

[catrox14]

 

once was enough for me, thank you very much, and come on, Sam learned that lesson already. Do we really need to turn him into an idiot / screw-up so he can learn it all over again?

 

I guess I'm more forgiving of Sam this time around. On the surface it looks like he's making similar mistakes but I think this time he's thinking it through at least as far as he can with the information he has right now.  I know I said above that I was worried about him going off half-cock but I think it's really more like 3/4 cocked.  I think Dean is Sam in s4 here. Dean is being driven by something he can't control except for the act of not doing it at  all to begin with but that ship has sailed, like it did with Sam in s4.  But the big difference for me is that this time IMO Sam is being stupid for the right reasons this time like Dean was stupid for the right reasons when he let Gadreel possess Sam (yes that's a whole other conversation).  

 

I had another thought about the Book. Since according to the Stein minion in the clip, the book can't be destroyed, maybe it was speaking to Sam to save it maybe it was driving Sam to NOT burn it.  And then once Sam was compelled to save the Book he made the decision to take it to Rowena.  Just a thought. I guess I'm just holding out hope that Sam has a plan and a contingency plan. 

[AwesomO4000]

Just a thought. I guess I'm just holding out hope that Sam has a plan and a contingency plan.

 

That would save this whole thing for me. As I said, all I'm asking for here is not to have stupid and/or screw up Sam.

 

I would especially hate it if Rowena gets the best of Sam in shades of Ruby, because for me that would just be extremely insulting to Sam. At least Ruby had the backing of some major players and the help of some powerful angels. Rowena is just a murdering (I'm not forgetting that waiter and the soul-hooker she just killed like she was going through Kleenex) power hungry, bitch (sorry the word fits). I'll be so annoyed if she gets one over on Sam.

[shang yiet]

Dean's MOC has been pretty meh so far. I feel the writers want it both ways, the ooh, dean is sooo dark but at the same time, they want him to keep his hands clean, no way they let him kill a nurse or sully him like they did Sam. I don;t know why, everything bad he does will just be blamed on the Mark anyway, none of that ' Ooh, Sam, you're  so arrogant ' S4 nonsense. Regular Dean's character would still escape without a stain.

 

Evil? Not in any way. Demon Dean just seems like regular old Dean who's had too much coffee.Dark Dean is more like beige Dean.

Frankly, I don't know why Sam should be so concerned except the fans or writing demand it.

 

Anyway, even if Sam bungles it up, at least he is doing something active and playing a role in the mytharc and having an effect on the storyline. If he gets it wrong, fine. At least he tried. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by shang yiet

[SueB]

 Curtis Armstrong is doing a nice job but the character type doesn`t appeal to me. 

Honestly, I think Curtis Armstrong is making a real meal out of this character.  He was just FUNNY WRONG in his last Not!Buddy comedy episode.  I suspect he and the demon tablet to resurrect in S11.  In fact I think they deferred much of  Cas' character story to S11 when they found out they were renewed.

[catrox14]

Um...guys...I'm not okay right now... I'm really not.  Oh gods....they are going to kill Cas.

 

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-season-finale-description-brothers-keeper/66111

Season finale of Supernatural.

SN1023A_0255rIn addition to this episode, "Brother's Keeper," The CW will be showing a repeat of the previous week's episode, "The Prisoner," in the 8PM hour. The Supernatural finale airs at 9.

 

 SUPERNATURAL SEASON FINALE — Dean (Jensen Ackles) makes a shocking decision regarding the Mark of Cain that would change not only his life, but Sam’s (Jared Padalecki) too. Meanwhile, Crowley (Mark Sheppard) and Rowena (guest star Ruth Connell) face off and Castiel (Misha Collins) gets caught in the middle. Phil Sgriccia directed this episode written by Jeremy Carver (#1022). Original airdate 5/20/2015.

Edited May 2, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

Well AwesomeO ... looks like Dean makes a decision for he and Sam.  Seems like the setup for Sam to be the one to make a mistake was a feint.  Presuming, of course, that it's a bad decision.  But since it's a season cliff-hanger... "good" seems off the table.

 

On Cas, I'll put $10 that we are somehow reminded that Cas owes Crowley for saving him back in Soul Survivor.  As for Crowley... matricide...that's dark. 

[AwesomO4000]

How... odd, catrox. Why would Castiel get in the middle of Crowley and Rowena? First why would he care? (Shouldn't he be out looking for Metatron?) And second... There is no second. The first question is enough. I can't think of any reason why Cas would be anywhere in the middle of that or anywhere near either of them. I'm stumped.

 

Unless it's what SueB said and that he owes Crowley? But he's never felt the need to keep his word with Crowley before, so why start now?

 

 

Well AwesomeO ... looks like Dean makes a decision for he and Sam.  Seems like the setup for Sam to be the one to make a mistake was a feint.  Presuming, of course, that it's a bad decision.  But since it's a season cliff-hanger... "good" seems off the table.

 

I hope you're right, but Dean making the decision might be because he has to do something to counteract a problem Sam made (and therefor Dean decides he's taking over the decision making). I'll be very surprised if all of this set up with the lying and the ominous warnings about how "dark" and "dangerous" the Book of the Damned is doesn't come to very bad things... pleasantly surprised, but still surprised. I'm still guessing Dean is going to have to make a sacrifice - like he decides that he has to keep the mark because Sam created a new big bad and Dean needs it to fight it - and I hope it's not because of something Sam messed up. ::crosses fingers::

Edited May 2, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[catrox14]

Oh geez.  Remember the gag reel that was shown at the wrap party and Cas' eyes were like the girl Rowena killed...I think Cas might have lost his grace and was turned into an attack dog and she sics him on Crowley

Edited May 2, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

Oh geez.  Remember the gag reel that was shown at the wrap party and Cas' eyes were like the girl Rowena killed...I think Cas might have lost his grace and was turned into an attack dog and she sics him on Crowley

 

 Again. Geez, he just got it back. If so... guy can't get a break. If not and he still has his grace, then he should be able to heal himself, which would be good.

[catrox14]

I'm thinking back to s8 when Meg said words could kill Cas....and Metatron asked in FanFiction...would it kill you to read a book? Even with his grace, Cas might not be able to survive a spell if it's in a book that he reads....and Rowena has such a book...

[mertensia]

Is it possible Dean kills himself to keep himself from killing Sam?

[DittyDotDot]

How... odd, catrox. Why would Castiel get in the middle of Crowley and Rowena? First why would he care? (Shouldn't he be out looking for Metatron?) And second... There is no second. The first question is enough. I can't think of any reason why Cas would be anywhere in the middle of that or anywhere near either of them. I'm stumped.

 

I would assume Cass will be stuck in the middle because Rowena is working with Sam on finding something to help Dean, so he'll be trying to keep her alive until that can be accomplished. And, I can also imagine they have something they need from Crowley too, so Crowley will also need to be kept alive too. I doubt it's out of any loyalty to either of them that he ends up in the middle of their family drama...I'm thinking something like The Devil You Know.

 

 I'm thinking Crowley's gonna bite it in this episode and not Cass. Although, maybe they both do, why not right?

[Aeryn13]

Well, I certainly hope Dean is not the one being made the bad/wrong/screw-up in the Finale via his decision. That`s my big fear after reading that summary. 

[SueB]

Well I think we can safely say the star and the other tattoo on Jared's arms were for storyline because he's missing them now:

[catrox14]

So he was totally trolling. LOL these boys are such little sneaks.  They are not stupid IMO they know exactly what they are doing. And theyare so nonchalant. about it. Like Jared flashing the tats...and Jensen taking a picture with a Knight's helmet just over his shoulder. Bless. LOL

[SueB]

Exactly. And we know that because of the outtake from the one video where he was explaining to Jensen how to hide the shirt logo at the start.

So, I'm thinking the tat is for a spell.

[catrox14]

 

mertensia, on 02 May 2015 - 02:22 AM, said:

Is it possible Dean kills himself to keep himself from killing Sam?

Even if he tries, he'll resurrect as a demon. I'm wondering if he will choose to become an actual Knight of Hell for reasons. Now I'm wondering what that star on Sam's arm is about.  I don't think Dean can ever get rid of the Mark.  I know Rowena claims it's "just a curse" but I think she is lying. Sam  might think since she's Crowley's mother that she has the same ethos of keeping a bargain which I don't think she does. Clearly she wants something from the Codex but I really don't think there is a cure for Dean in the BotD or in the Codex. I think the BotD is going to turn out to be a MacGuffin. 

I will say though, that I think he might not have intended to show the arm without the tat in that video above.  I think it was like an autonomic response when Jensen waved at someone that he just thought "Oh, I should wave too. " and he kind of stopped himself halfway through.  But I could be reading into that wave LOL.

Edited May 2, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

http://www.winchesterbros.com/site/index.php/news/14/10762-1021-dark-dynasty-extended-trailer#.VUUl_7EXWoo.twitter

Extended promo link.

Either the promo monkeys are giving away that Chatlie dies OR they are making us think Charlie is going to die. Cause it seems obvious to me.

[DittyDotDot]

Personally, I think they're messing with us and trying to make us think she dies. But, it is Supernatural and everyone dies sooner or later, so could be they're being straight forward...but I don't think so.