Spoilers With Speculation

[DittyDotDot]

See, Cain's prophecy feels akin to how they kept saying Dean was going to have to kill Sam in the early years. I don't think they're obligated to follow through on Cain's prophecy any more than they followed through on John's.

 

Plus, I think it's one thing to make a lead character something different temporarily--where you can say this wasn't the character so people will forgive--and another to have that main character murder his little brother who is the one person they've spent their entire life protecting. They couldn't go all the way with Sam killing Dean back in S4 for the same reasons. There's no coming back from that even if you find a way to resurrect the character the next season. Sam still hasn't recovered from almost choking the life out of Dean to most of the fandom and it's been a long time since that happened.

 

I don't know, it just seems like they are walking on eggshells with the fandom these days--and also why I feel the show is so fractured--so I doubt they'd take a chance to alienate so many of them.

[catrox14]

They're not obligated BUT I think it will be a big waste of an arc if they don't go there.  They took Dean pretty damn far when he allowed Sam to be possessed. I think half of fandom, even Dean girls, haven't really forgiven Dean for that action even with Dean becoming a demon. 

 

You know maybe they use an illusion spell like they did to save that little boy from Cain.  Maybe the create doppelgangers of themselves to fake their own deaths and then keep looking for an answer to the Mark in s11.  Maybe the audience won't know this until s11.

[rue721]

I don't think that Dean would have to *murder* Sam in order to kill him. Same thing with Castiel or even Crowley. There have been plenty of times on this show where the characters are trying to do something right, and it turns out that their actions had all kinds of disastrous and unexpected consequences.

 

I think that what might happen is kind of Supernatural version of the Gift of the Magi, where Sam tries to save Dean and ends up getting himself killed, or Dean tries to stop from becoming a demon or from killing Sam and ends up unwittingly putting events in motion that end up with Sam's blood on his hands. Cain's prophecy isn't so literal that Dean would have to commit murder in the first against Sam for it to "come true," imo. And there have been so many seasons that ended with one of the brothers dead that it's practically a joke at this point -- I think there's a strong possibility that at least one of them will die again.

 

Cain's prophecy is different from John's, imo. John was just a human man worrying about his kid(s). Cain's prophecy seemed mystical, to me. Also, it was never very clear exactly what kind of hold the ~psychic powers~ or whatever had on Sam, whereas it's been very clear that the Mark is able to control Dean and that he's doomed because of it. I think they're different scenarios. I personally prefer the ambiguity of John's creepy-but-baseless certainty about Sam, and the ambiguity of whether Sam had something actually wrong with him or not. But Cain's prophecy and the Mark's effect on Dean doesn't have *that* kind of ambiguity imo.

 

Anyway! If Dean is in Purgatory, his body is there, too, right? Not just his soul?

 

If he dies in Purgatory, what happens to his soul and what happens to his body? Are they separated...? If he dies in general -- on Earth, or wherever, and his soul goes to Hell (or even to Heaven, I guess), what happens to his body? The Mark will keep it alive, so will someone else inhabit it? Someone would have to, in order to animate it, I think? Could his soul go to Heaven and Crowley or some other demon (or angel?) possess his body?

 

Oooooh what if Dean dies, his soul goes to Hell, and Lucifer is able to "escape" the Cage and possess him via the Mark?

[DittyDotDot]

I don't think that Dean would have to *murder* Sam in order to kill him. Same thing with Castiel or even Crowley. There have been plenty of times on this show where the characters are trying to do something right, and it turns out that their actions had all kinds of disastrous and unexpected consequences.

 

I just wonder if it's not Dean actively trying to kill Sam, then is it really Dean killing Sam? Is that really what Cain was eluding to with his prophecy? What's the urgency or the drama in it being an "accident"? I'd think Cain's prophecy was more about Dean becoming something other than himself; something that would actively kill both Cass and Sam.

 

I'm in no way saying I think Dean needs to murder Sam, but I think if TPTB go there, a good chunk of the fandom will see it as Dean murdering Sam. Just as much of the fandom still can't forgive Sam for almost "murdering" Dean back in S4. I just find it hard to believe TPTB will go that route and take the chance they would alienate a large chunk of fandom.

 

I'm still not convinced Purgatory is really Purgatory and not some manifestation from the box. Although, they are fond of tearing down their own storytelling, so it very well could be, I'm just not convinced of it as of yet.

[rue721]

I just wonder if it's not Dean actively trying to kill Sam, then is it really Dean killing Sam? Is that really what Cain was eluding to with his prophecy? What's the urgency or the drama in it being an "accident"? I'd think Cain's prophecy was more about Dean becoming something other than himself; something that would actively kill both Cass and Sam.

 

That's not how I heard what Cain was saying. Imo, Cain was saying that Dean was on this path already, that he'd already doomed himself when he took on the Mark. It was more like Cain was informing him what would because of what Dean had *already* done and become.

 

I think that there's plenty of drama and tragedy in Sam trying to save Dean from this "curse"/prophesy and making it come true (by ending up dead at Dean's hands) instead, or in Dean trying to save Sam and ending up with his blood on his hands.

 

Given that they're talking about the Cain and Abel story openly on the show, but that Sam seems to be in the dark about SPN's version of that story, and how it relates to Dean and his relationship with Sam, and about Cain's prophecy, I think that the Sam's SL through the end of the season is probably going to be a *textbook* example of dramatic irony in action.

 

It seems ridiculous to me that Dean would *murder* Sam. But I think that the idea that he would murder him comes from a too-literal interpretation of what Cain was saying anyway.

[oliverwendell]

I don't think Dean killing Sam will be considered "murder" -- even in fandom -- if it's done to save Sam from something far worse.  In fact, I think it may end up coming across as the most unselfish thing Dean Winchester has ever done.

 

That's because I think this has been the writer's plan since episode 9.01, when Dean tricked Sam into living and being possessed by Ezekiel because Dean couldn't bear to live without him.  I think Dean is finally going to face a situation where the consequences to Sam are so dire that Dean's unhealthy, quasi-parental, codependent need to keep Sam alive will have to take a step back so Dean can do the right thing for his brother.  Those consequences are probably Lucifer-related, because of Sam's prior experiences with Lucifer and because of the Cain/Abel parallel.

 

Incidentally, I think Sam's been on a bit of character journey too, since failing to look for Dean in Purgatory.  It's interesting to me that, in the past two years, each brother has done to the other the one thing that brother finds the most difficult to forgive.  Dean sacrificed Sam's agency and bodily autonomy -- the things Sam values most -- so he could keep Sam alive and with him.  Sam abandoned Dean -- which is the thing Dean fears most -- and took the chance Dean's disappearance offered to live the normal life he'd always craved.  Now, don't jump on me!  I know I'm grossly oversimplifying both situations, because both brothers, in my opinion, had extremely valid reasons to do what they did.  Still, Season 10 (and maybe 11) seem to be about putting both brothers in a situation that forces them to make different choices.

[catrox14]

I think there is one piece of the puzzle  missing that I wonder if the show will address. Kevin was the victim of both Sam and Dean's "selfish" actions.

 

Sam left Kevin alone with demons after him. His girlfriend was murdered by Crowley and his mother sold her soul because Sam didn't look for him. If Sam had stayed with Kevin maybe none of those things happen. Hard to say but he still hung him out to dry.

Dean left Kevin alone with a murderous angel inside his brother and was murdered because of it. Had Dean told Sam the truth maybe Kevin would be alive but Sam might be dead.  Hard to say but Dean hung Kevin out to dry, inadvertently. 

 

I wonder Kevin will come back to be part of the solution or maybe he'll have gone 'evil ghost' and wants vengeance on both brothers. 

Edited April 13, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

Anyway! If Dean is in Purgatory, his body is there, too, right? Not just his soul?

 

If he dies in Purgatory, what happens to his soul and what happens to his body? Are they separated...? If he dies in general -- on Earth, or wherever, and his soul goes to Hell (or even to Heaven, I guess), what happens to his body? The Mark will keep it alive, so will someone else inhabit it? Someone would have to, in order to animate it, I think? Could his soul go to Heaven and Crowley or some other demon (or angel?) possess his body?

 

In my opinion, nope. We had soulless Sam who was apparently just Sam's reanimated body and memories with no soul to guide it. And that was a dangerous enough situation. Here Dean's body sans soul could not only be reanimated but have the mark potentially fueling it. That could potentially be worse in my opinion than demon Dean. Demon Dean might have been a demon, but he still had Dean's  thought processes and somewhat hedonistic, "screw it, I wanna have some fun" attitude. An animated, soulless Dean driven only by the mark I suspect would pretty much just want to kill kill kill for the pleasure of killing, forget beer and karaoke. I mean that's pretty much what soulless Sam wanted to do as well. Well that and have sex with anyone he could. But the mark would magnify that... and dump the sex part, since killing would be the pleasure for the mark. And being pretty much immortal, it wouldn't care about being subtle or trying to "blend in" like soulless Sam had to in order to hide what he was - so yeah, in my opinion, a soulless Dean body animated / driven only by the mark would be one of the scariest, destructive things ever - like Godstiel without the selective body count, and Dean should consider that before doing anything really crazy that might separate his soul from his body.

 

Unless the mark would just explode a body that had nothing to animate it - like an angel getting into a wrong host - and weirdly that would be the "good" scenario compared to the above.

 

And does Dean still have his anti-possession tattoo? Because if so, then he shouldn't be able to be possessed by a demon unless the tattoo is damaged (and would the mark allow that to happen, or prefer to control / drive the body on its own?) Lucifer is another story since he isn't a demon. And that would be end-the-world bad if Lucifer somehow possessed a mark-fueled, empty Dean vessel. Which pretty much makes me think Dean should not go see Lucifer, because that risk would be too big to take.

[catrox14]

 

That could potentially be worse in my opinion than demon Dean. Demon Dean might have been a demon, but he still had Dean's  thought processes and somewhat hedonistic, "screw it, I wanna have some fun" attitude. An animated, soulless Dean driven only by the mark I suspect would pretty much just want to kill kill kill for the pleasure of killing, forget beer and karaoke. I mean that's pretty much what soulless Sam wanted to do as well. Well that and have sex with anyone he could. But the mark would magnify that... and dump the sex part, since killing would be the pleasure for the mark. And being pretty much immortal, it wouldn't care about being subtle or trying to "blend in" like soulless Sam had to in order to hide what he was - so yeah, in my opinion, a soulless Dean body animated / driven only by the mark would be one of the scariest, destructive things ever - like Godstiel without the selective body count, and Dean should consider that before doing anything really crazy that might separate his soul from his body.

 

OH GODS. I JUST CAN'T WITH THIS. WHY??? WHY WOULD YOU PUT THIS OUT IN THE UNIVERSE?

 

Holy shit. I never even thought about it that way....I mean I figured Dean was dead but when demon!Dean was around there was a sick comfort that it was still Dean in his most twisted fucked up form....but this.....I .....

 

help me

Edited April 13, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

OH GODS. I JUST CAN'T WITH THIS. WHY??? WHY WOULD YOU PUT THIS OUT IN THE UNIVERSE?

:: Puts on an innocent face, and points to rue721:: It was rue's fault. rue asked the question... I just answered it. I just couldn't not answer a juicy "what if" scenario like that, now could I?

 

::Smiles evilly while no one is looking::

[catrox14]

What did I EVER do to you that you should put this into my head now?:(......

[AwesomO4000]

Don't worry, catrox. They wouldn't do something like that to Dean's character. They only do that kind of stuff to Sam. In the very remote chance that they would do something like that to Dean, I'm pretty sure it would end up being Sam's fault somehow. And that Dean's soul would fight like crazy to get back and fix everything.

 

But just think of how much fun Jensen would have playing that kind of thing for a while. Remember you didn't want demon Dean at first either - and look what happened there.

 

Besides, I'm over here angsting about what stupid thing they might have Sam do that's going to cause the next catastrophe that big brother Dean is going to have to fix, so I gotta think of some other scenarios to distract myself from the potential "Sam, the perennial screw up" bomb I'm expecting to come. I can't be alone in this angsting - what fun would that be?

[catrox14]

 I think having Dean let Sam be possessed by an angel put Dean in the permanent doghouse for many viewers  And he's still paying the price for that stupid decision. 

 

But I could live with demon!Dean because it was still...Dean-adjacent. I mean if Dean dies he'll be dead. But just something else in there or a soulless Dean that isn't even his own meatsuit or possessed by only bloodlust? With no ability to control it at all?  YIKES. 

 

I don't see them actually letting Lucifer possess Dean since Sam was his chosen vessel. They could go with Sam making a deal with Lucifer to let him take him and then they restart the apocalpyse again. 

[AwesomO4000]

But I could live with demon!Dean because it was still...Dean-adjacent. I mean if Dean dies he'll be dead. But just something else in there or a soulless Dean that isn't even his own meatsuit or possessed by only bloodlust? With no ability to control it at all?  YIKES.

 

I understand, because this is exactly how I felt about the Michael thing. I just didn't understand why I would want to see Dean possessed by Michael. That wouldn't be Dean at all, just Michael in a Dean suit. I mean, was there any point in the show - besides the "The Rapture" and maybe "My Bloody Valentine" (though theoretically Jimmy was already gone by that point anyway) - where we were thinking "oh look, that's Jimmy's influence coming through?" Not me. Not even in most of season 4 when "Jimmy" was still there. That was Castiel, period. And if that was the effect with just a regular angel, it should be worse with an archangel like Michael who was basically a major control freak and who, in my opinion, wouldn't have let Dean "out" for a second or engaged with him in any way after possessing him. *

 

For me Sam and Lucifer was a little different only because of how they set up Lucifer, who entirely would've wanted to have a "dialogue" with Sam for multiple reasons, even if it was just to give Sam a little hope only to crush it again. Or because he was bored. Or because he wanted to have Sam agree with how mistreated he was. Or he wanted Sam to like him even as he treated Sam like crap (or especially when and in spite of him treating Sam like crap). That was just the way Lucifer was, in my opinion, whereas Michael wouldn't have cared about or had any time or patience for any of that crap. He didn't even bother to visit Dean personally in dreams - he sent Zachariah to cover that part, because he's that standoffish. He would've put Dean in a box or a dream hallucination world (like Gadreel eventually did to Sam) and shut the door. The end. Never to see "Dean" again or give him any chance to fight back. I had no desire to see that and was glad Dean kept saying "no."

 

So yes, I definitely understand your concern... but as with the Michael thing, I don't think they are going to go there with Dean. It's usually Sam who has the autonomy issues with people taking over his body - whether it be Lucifer, demons, teenaged witches, or angels - or his body running around on its own even as with soulless Sam. I'm trying to remember if Dean has ever had that kind of problem before. There was the shifter and the leviathan, but that was basically an entity copying Dean rather than taking over Dean's body.

 

* (I equate the difference to being like Spike vs Angelus. With Spike you might have a chance, because Spike likes a good challenge and might give you a head start or let you have a weapon to make it interesting. Angelus wants as easy a kill as possible and his only "challenge" might be to see if he can drive you insane first. Michael is Angelus here - any question if there would be resistance and that would be all she wrote for his meatsuit.)

[Aeryn13]

 

I just didn't understand why I would want to see Dean possessed by Michael. That wouldn't be Dean at all, just Michael in a Dean suit.

 

It would have given Jensen something really exciting to play and it would have given Dean a true chance to close out his mytharc rather than completely cast aside in favour of solely Sam`s mytharc. And for me, it was exactly the same as Sam and Lucifer. They did that twice yet Michael went to Young John and Adam, a guest star from a one-off a Season before over one of the leads. More insult to injury for the character was not possible. Jensen should have gone on vacation when they shot that stupid episode, no difference for the plot anyway.

 

Possession is fine if it serves a point within an episode or a small arc maybe. I don`t mind if the character isn`t the character for a change.  

 

Speaiking of unsatisfying and infuriating conclusions, there is currently spoiler rumour for the Finale going around tumblr. No idea if it`s someone`s idea of a bad joke but if they think re-doing the Season 9 Finale, just with Sam, is not completely redundant, they are hopeless. I also wonder why Jensen would be excited about that. He expressed before how much he didn`t like the guilty cheerleader role. Hardly think that`s changed. 

[rue721]

The reason I wonder about Dean being used/possessed as a "vessel" is because of that quote from Jensen, saying that even if Dean died, his body might live on. Possession (by Lucifer specifically) seems like it might be on the table, because why would the show take pains to establish that the Mark is connected to Lucifer, and to have Metatron bait the other characters about going to the Mark's "source" (aka, Lucifer) for help with it, if they aren't going to explore that angle at all?

 

The Mark is its own entity, and maybe it's completely separate from Lucifer at this point. But I keep thinking of it as this sort of two way street between the Mark's bearer and Lucifer. The bearer has a conduit to Lucifer's power via the Mark, which is why the bearer is so strong and can heal and all of that angelic/demonic stuff. And in return, Lucifer has a conduit to Earth (via the Mark). I think that the point (for Lucifer) wouldn't be to possess Dean specifically, it would be to escape the Cage. If he could use the Mark as a conduit out of the Cage (and into Dean's body) wouldn't he take that opportunity to escape?

 

Not that they're certain to do it. But I think the show has been teasing that in order to save Dean's soul (and keep it from being poisoned by the Mark), they might have to get it out of his body.

 

I don't think Dean's body would be wondering around soulless for long, because it would be useful in a way that Sam's body wasn't (once Cas pulled it out of the Cage), since Dean's body is attached to the Mark, and has special powers because of that. I can imagine Crowley being interested in possessing MoC!Dean, once Dean's soul is elsewhere. Idk, there are probably plenty of power-hungry people who would be interested.

 

Even if Dean's Body is possessed by some other entity at the beginning of next season, the show could still keep tabs on Dean's soul (in Heaven or wherever) as a way of still showing us actual!Dean. And obviously, he'd be back in his body by S11E4, or S11E7 at the latest, in any case.

Edited April 13, 2015 by rue721

[AwesomO4000]

It would have given Jensen something really exciting to play and it would have given Dean a true chance to close out his mytharc rather than completely cast aside in favour of solely Sam`s mytharc. And for me, it was exactly the same as Sam and Lucifer. They did that twice yet Michael went to Young John and Adam, a guest star from a one-off a Season before over one of the leads. More insult to injury for the character was not possible. Jensen should have gone on vacation when they shot that stupid episode, no difference for the plot anyway.

 

Possession is fine if it serves a point within an episode or a small arc maybe. I don`t mind if the character isn`t the character for a change. 

 

We differ there, because for me, what I said above still stands. I'm about the character. I'm generally not attached to an actor or actress. I can love one character they play and hate another or think they play one character well and another not so much and it doesn't affect the character I love at all. So for me, I wouldn't care much that it gave Jensen something really exciting (and exciting is relative anyway as I found Michael boring) to play if it wasn't Dean, because Dean is who I want to see. If I liked or was interested in Michael, it might be different, but I found Michael boring no matter what other character he was in, and would have found him boring in Jensen as well. If I'd found Michael exciting played by Jensen, then I wouldn't have believed that was Michael and/or that Jensen wasn't being convincing as Michael because as I said, to me, Michael was boring. So mileage definitely varies there.

 

On the other hand, I found Lucifer interesting. He was a deluded jerk with some interesting flaws. So for me, they weren't the same thing at all.

[Aeryn13]

I think Michael had potential, they just didn`t do anything with the character. Meanwhile, Lucifer, could get on my nerves somewhat. He was coolest when he played mindgames with the guy he took as a vessel - and that was as a disembodied presence.

 

So I`m the opposite, I would have been very interested to see Dean-as-Michael (or at least Jensen as Michael) and after that final scene in The End, had no real interest to see Sam-as-Lucifer yet again. And I cared nothing for that confrontation on the field. Michael was turned into a joke, Lucifer whined some more, Castiel got a fraction of a good moment, Sam Sued up, Dean was neglectable and Bobby more so.

 

Right now I`m inclined to believe that the Mark will just vanish in the Season 10 Finale and this will be it for Dean, Sam will start another dark arc and Dean will move into the nanny role again. Noone will possess anyone, someone or several someones might die a pointless death that won`t stick and Cas wil move in and out of the plot randomely without rhyme or reason.,

[Demented Daisy]

We differ there, because for me, what I said above still stands. I'm about the character. I'm generally not attached to an actor or actress. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this.  Jensen is a perfectly fine actor, but I care about Dean.  I "know" Dean; I'm never going to know Jensen -- and I'm okay with that.  :-)

 

I never had any interest in seeing Dean as anyone but Dean.  Not Michael or anyone else.  I didn't like him as a demon because, to me, he wasn't Dean.  Everything that I like about Dean was gone in favor of this jerk who is rude to women and likes to pummel people into oblivion.  Not fun for me to watch.  

 

I didn't care that it gave Jensen something new to do.  Still don't.  Don't care that he enjoyed playing the role; I didn't enjoy watching it.

 

Mileage varies, of course.  A perfect season finale for me would be for Dean to be 100% rid of the Mark and no chance of him ever becoming a demon again; for Team Free Will to get the band back together again; and for Crowley to die while Rowena lives.

 

Never gonna happen, but a girl can dream, right?  ;-)

[7kstar]

I know both Jensen and Jared have wanted to do at least 11 seasons to beat Smallville, Tom Welling. 

 

Then Jensen hasn't been saying he wants to keep going forever, in fact he's been really smart about his replies.  As long as the stories staying interesting...that could mean I'm done next year?  lol

 

Now, how long they will go...Jensen gave a clue when you see the boys working together like season 1 expect it to be coming to an end.  Does that mean next season, IDK.  But Jensen did say he thought this was Carver's best season finale.  So does that mean it will be better than??? IDK. 

 

Personally I think if we see the whole family united somehow that will also be a sign that it is ending.  Ratings will determine it, but if they do a repeat of last season...not looking forward to that.  It needs to go in a new direction...not a same old repeat loop to loop.

 

Although I am hopeful to see Death....He and Dean usually are a fun mix especially if there is a eating scene involved!  :)

[rue721]

I was excited for Demon!Dean! It was finally something new and fresh. We hadn't ever seen Dean become something supernatural before, and (silly me!) I thought the storyline would lead to some pretty cool "mythology" stuff about how demons are made and what the difference is between demons and humans (in terms of their souls), and that kind of thing. Plus, I felt like Dean had been really obnoxious throughout S9 and wanted the show to acknowledge it, and ideally, to provide an explanation that didn't make me feel completely fed up and irritated with Dean. I didn't even need it to change really, I just wanted the show to be like, "yeah, we know he's been obnoxious...And it's because he's been transforming into a DEMON! [duh Duh DUM]!" Which imo is basically what the show did, so I was happy and intrigued.

 

I also liked seeing Demon!Dean for the very short time he was around, because he was like a new character, and I was (again) intrigued. But then he just vanished, and in such an anticlimactic way. (Seriously, NO special effects? Just a change in facial expression. WHY YES I am still salty about it :P). I was hoping for Dean to be the big bad for the season.

 

Anyway, I liked Soulless!Sam, too. And BloodDrinking!Sam. And FuckedUpFromTheTrials!Sam. And PossessedByGadreel!Sam. (Yes, the acting was weird and stiff, but I liked Gadreel as a character, so even that was OK with me -- more or less). So it's no surprise that I liked Demon!Dean, too. YMMV.

 

So I'm really interested in seeing what happens to Dean's body if his soul is separated from it -- if his soul is in heaven or hell or wherever (maybe we can keep tabs on it wherever it is, even) -- but his body is still walking around. And I'm really interested in seeing Sam's reaction to being around not!Dean. *Especially* if Dean's body is possessed by Lucifer. Imagine how Sam would feel about that! 

 

Honestly, I'm not seeing a lot of signs that S11 is the final season. Maybe they will call it quits by then, but imo it could go either way, and I actually think the odds are good that the network and production company will be fine going on to S12 (because the show is a pretty solid performer and all that), and I suspect that the actors' contracts are for longer than one year (and would be expensive to buy out) just because it seems like just asking for trouble to sign them on for just one year at a time. I *do* think that we might get a new showrunner for S11, but maybe that's wishful thinking :)

[AwesomO4000]

They're not obligated BUT I think it will be a big waste of an arc if they don't go there.  They took Dean pretty damn far when he allowed Sam to be possessed. I think half of fandom, even Dean girls, haven't really forgiven Dean for that action even with Dean becoming a demon.

 

 

I actually forgave Dean rather easily for the possession myself. It was the lying I wasn't so happy with, and by the time Sam was wondering if there was something wrong with him - as in he was just never going to be right - it was starting to border on mean. But then Sam was a complete ass, so Dean still looked better in comparison. And then Sam said "I lied" and whatever. Carver and this group of writers just can't seem to give Sam's character a break for long, in my opinion. And considering how they started him out in season 8 doing one of the most cowardly and crappy things ever, Sam still has a way to go. Even becoming a demon, Dean was less damaged character-wise, imo.

 

And that's why I still can't be sure that this isn't all going to go pear-shaped for Sam's character.

[SueB]

Jeremy Carver preview:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIeZnlJfU9g&feature=youtu.be

 

 

I think Carver was one of those kids who used a magnifying glass to burn up ants.  He likes to torture.

[catrox14]

 

Even becoming a demon, Dean was less damaged character-wise, imo.

 

I always find it so interesting how different viewers see different things(not just at this forum).  Many viewers (not all of course) have likened Dean's decision to let an angel possess Sam to save him to rape. I personally find that comparison horribly distasteful and wrong but I was surprised at how pervasive it is out on tumblr etc.  And they have never forgiven Dean for that.  So I'm calling it a draw LOL.

 

 

As to Carver's thing. So does that book actually have the skin of someone else that had the Mark because who the hell else could have had it other than Cain and Dean? I just think it's going to turn out that the book is pointless because well it's a macguffin IMO. 

 

And Castiel is becoming his badass self again. I wonder how many times he punches Metadouche on the car ride. I hope it's over 9000

Edited April 14, 2015 by catrox14

[GirlyGeek]

You know, I realize there are bigger, spoilery things to be worrying about going forward, and the following is probably an unpopular opinion but I can't stop worrying:

If they kill Charlie off I'm not gonna make it (and neither will Dean)

That's all.

[catrox14]

I don't think you need to worry about Charlie being killed off.  I'm seeing speculation on the interwebz that she will be a series regular in s11.   Seriously. that's the spec, because Felicia is saying there is something brewing that if she talked about the EPs would kill her.

 

I, for one, will be very unhappy with Charlie as a regular.

[AwesomO4000]

I, for one, will be very unhappy with Charlie as a regular.

 

Geesh, if that happened I wonder how many times Sam would be a Samsel in distress so that Charlie could save him? Or have to show him how to do some computer or research thing.

 

I don't want to think about that.

[GirlyGeek]

Well, I don't know if I want her a regular! But I don't want her dead, lol

If that were true, then the spec that some of our group *are* getting killed off might well come true (Cas, Crowley) to make room. But like I said, I like Charlie but I don't need her as a regular!

Same with Jodi... Please don't kill her (also, don't need her as a regular either).

[Goldmoon]

Charlie Sue as a regular would ruin the show.  Did the showrunners not hear about her dreadful turn on Eureka?

[Omegamom]

Noob here. Hi, all!

FWIW, I've been thinking that Sam is going to try to trick Lucifer into removing the MoC from Dean in the finale. We know Death is in the finale. They need his ring to open the cage (they still had the other three rings, and I certainly don't see them ditching objects of such power). And Mark Pellegrino retweeted something today about a big announcement for the #FreeLucifer campaign, which has been going since February.

Like I said, FWIW. My scenario has Crowley and Cas trying to keep Dean away from Sam while Sam is doing the spell, and Dean killing them to get to Sam before he does it...Cas, being Favored Of God, would be resurrected next season, but Crowley...?

[AwesomO4000]

That would be cool in my opinion, Omegamom, but I don't know if they'd do it. It would be a really nice surprise... unless something really awful happens because of it, and Dean still has the mark. Then I wouldn't like the scenario as much.

[7kstar]

Jensen has already leaked out that Carver out did himself on the final and that he felt it was one of the best ones.  Now what that means...no clue...well a few but I also want to be a little surprised because I usually like it more that way.

 

I would love to see Cain back as well...If only my wishes could come true.  :)

[missbonnie]

I punted this show at the end of season 6 when Cas went off the reservation. I started watching it again on TNT and Netflix and then Amazon to get totally caught up. After all of that, if they kill off Sam, Dean, Cas or Crowley I am going to be supremely pissed off. Metatron and Rowena can die. Anybody else and I think I am going to be done again damnit.

[7kstar]

If you think about it Jim was never a regular but he got a lot of time on the show.  Also a regular doesn't equal lead.  It just means that they have a contract so they can count on getting the person on the show.

 

I like Charlie and I thought this time she really didn't out shine Sam.  More like she gave him a pep talk and got him to vocalize what he needed to say out loud and this time he has said how he wants Dean around. 

 

Dean's called him on his Purge speech but Sam hasn't backed down on trying to find a way to save his brother.  Plus Sam didn't get saved this last ep, he saved himself...so it will be interesting to see if they can surprise us in a pleasant way.  I'm hopeful for now.  :)

[catrox14]

So...I was thinking about Metatron saying "The river shall end at the source". I happened to be watching s8 again on TNT and there is a river in Purgatory that is on the path to the back door to Hell. Soooo maybe we will get Lucifer...and truly. I hope the show doesn't spoil Lucifer coming back. I want to be surprised.

[kimrey]

10.21 synopsis.

THE WINCHESTERS MEET THE STYNES — Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Sam (Jared Padalecki) investigate a bizarre murder and realize the killer bears the same tattoo as those from the Styne family. Eldon Styne (guest star David Hoflin) attacks Dean and a brutal fight ensues. Meanwhile, Castiel (Misha Collins) acts as referee when Charlie (guest star Felicia Day) and Rowena (guest star Ruth Connell) are forced to work together on the Book of the Damned. Crowley (Mark Sheppard) discovers his mother is missing and knows she’s up to something so he turns to an old enemy for help. Robert Singer directed this episode written by Eugenie Ross-Leming & Brad Buckner (#1021). Original airdate 5/6/2015

This is the episode they're filming right now.

I'm really excited they're brining the Styne family back so soon. I hope we'll see more of them next season.

I guess I don't really get why Charlie has to be involved, but it seems they're trying to fit as many guest stars in this episode as possible.

As for filming, if anyone cares, from paying attention to tweets and such, they started filming this one last Friday and Jared and Jensen worked into Saturday morning. Jensen was at a craft beer fest in Portland on at least Monday, but I think there were sightings of him there all the way until yesterday. Jared has been in Vancouver all week. Both boys filmed at least last night. Felicia, Misha, and Ruth Connell were filming for most of the day/night on Wednesday. I would assume they still have 2 or 3 more days to film this one.

[Demented Daisy]

I was wondering why Misha was posting so many pictures of himself, Felicia, and Ruth.

 

Anyway....

 

Crowley (Mark Sheppard) discovers his mother is missing and knows she’s up to something so he turns to an old enemy for help.

 

*groan*  Not sure I'm going to like where this is going.  Unless he conjures up Kevin somehow.

[DittyDotDot]

Not-so-marvy Marv? Maybe they can both kill each other, easy peasy, problem solved, right...I'd be cool with that. ;)

 

ETA: BTW, what does that mean "Crowley discovers his mother missing"? He kicked her out...

Edited April 17, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

LOL I'm thinking we are at the stage of getting less than optimal and possibly foiler synopses.  Either that or he had eyes on Mommy Dearest and she disappeared.

[catrox14]

Nothing to see...

 

except the fight with Dean is brutal...and I'm really scared.

Edited April 18, 2015 by catrox14

[kimrey]

That's the exact same one I posted? haha

Also, one of the girls who was in that picture Jared tweeted posted a little bit about the filming they watched last night. Not too much, but she said they were filming the impala pulling up to a motel and the boys running out with weapons ready and running inside. She also said that it looked like there was supposed to be a lightning storm happening as well.

Edited April 18, 2015 by kimrey

[catrox14]

Oh gosh. I'm sorry Kimrey. I totally didn't see your post.  :( . I've been trying to do too many things at once. I'll delete my post.

 

I was responding to the quoted post and thought that was the entirety of the synopsis...My bad!

[kimrey]

No big deal! I read your post like 4 times trying to see what was different. Now I'm very familiar with it haha

I feel like the only episode now that I'm totally not sure about is 22. I don't remember much about what was happening when they filmed that one. Is that when Jensen tweeted all bloody in the bunker?

[Demented Daisy]

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/17/spoiler-room-scoop-vampire-diaries-supernatural-blacklist-and-more

 

Relevant bit:

Dean getting worse from the MoC makes me worry about both boys on Supernatural. Dean would never hurt his Sammy, right? RIGHT??? — JJ

 

I would really like to calm your worries, because thinking of Dean hurting Sam is unbearable—but let’s not forget that Demon Dean is not the Dean we know and love. And according to Misha Collins, the finale will not only “deliver,” but it will leave viewers with a serious case of whiplash. “There’s going to be a moment when everyone breathes a collective and triumphant sigh of relief,” he says, before ominously adding, “followed by a horrific ‘oh shit’ moment.” Translation: The finale will probably make you cry.

 

 

Goody.

[GirlyGeek]

Ugh you guys.. I don't normally get all involved in fandom, especially in the last few seasons, but I straight up had a bad dream about the finale for this season! Brother against brother, one killing the other, not out of anger or malice, but mercy. It was horrible.

Make it stop.

Otoh, I'm glad to be enjoying the show again.

[kimrey]

With everything that's been said about the finale so far, I wouldn't be surprised if your dream is the actual reality.

I read a very short drabble on tumblr earlier about Dean pulling Sam in for a hug and everything seems ok, but then he takes the first blade and stabs him with it. Kinda goes well with what Misha said.

Edited April 18, 2015 by kimrey

[catrox14]

I think it's not going to be a surprise if one brother kills the other.  It will HORRIBLE and awful. But I think it's going to happen.   I will tell you this....if they do it, it better not be a big fakeout.  I think both boys will end up in Hell.

 

I've been thinking that Dean and Sam will be offered 'Sophie's Choices""

 

Sam is dying because Dean has killed him.  There is nothing that can save Sam's life for supernatural reasons. But Crowley shows up and offers Dean the choice of Sam dying but going to Heaven in exchange for Dean becoming a demon again with no hope of ever being human again and no hope of death because he'll be the new Cain.   Dean agrees, but Crowley circumvents Sam's journey to Heaven and he ends up in Hell.  That's about as awful as I can think of that takes us into next season.

 

Or Sam is given a choice of dying and going to Hell in exchange for Dean being free of the Mark  But in the process of freeing Dean of the Mark, Dean dies and is turned into a demon anyway.  And they both end up in Hell

Edited April 18, 2015 by catrox14

[GirlyGeek]

Well, neither of you have made me feel any better, ;)

And kimrey, that tumblr sounds absolutely awful.  I swear, this show is stressing me out.  Yes, I know they die all the time.  But they don't kill each other, and somehow this has me all worked up.  (even though I know it'll likely be fixed by episode 2 of next year!)  
I do agree, though, one of them killing the other is where this season's been headed for awhile now, and I hope it pays off (even while I cringe at having to watch it).

[catrox14]

BTS of 10.21....

 

http://yvrshoots.com/2015/04/shoot-supernaturals-dean-jensen-ackles-picks-up-pizza-ends-up-in-alley-fight-

in-vancouver.html#.VTIhmbpH2qR

 

[catrox14]

More BTS pics