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SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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SueB

SueB

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On the clip:  anyone wonder if that's John who took the car?  Thinking it's "his"?  You couldn't see the driver (yes, I slowed to to .25 speed) but that's probably not JDM anyway as they kept him to two days shooting -- likely for financial reasons.  I imagine his two day guest salary is pretty damn high. 

Also of note: in the BTS for the EW shoot, they went to JDM's farm for HIS photos.  He's actually photoshopped into the family cover picture.  They did a good job, BTW.  But that explains why there's no BTS of he and the boys from the photoshoot.   

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Myrelle

Myrelle

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

Episode 17 is called Game Night.

I'm not sure it would be John driving the Impala because Dean doesn't seem to have made a wish on the pearl yet.

He might have made the wish already. It's a wish of the heart, not the mind.

15 minutes ago, SueB said:

On the clip:  anyone wonder if that's John who took the car?  Thinking it's "his"? 

Yes, I think so, too.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

42 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

https://ew.com/tv/2019/02/05/supernatural-episode-300-sneak-peek-john-mary-reunion/

Another sneak Peek with John and Mary.

Does John say "I went out taking out yellow eyes?"   Um, not really.

He helped but "taking out"? Try another one, Dabb. 

Mary even calls out Dean's name as an afterthought. But she forgets anything anyway once she sees John. Fuck you, AU!Bobby, huh? Well, it's in character. 

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Myrelle

Myrelle

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

He helped but "taking out"? Try another one, Dabb. 

Mary even calls out Dean's name as an afterthought. But she forgets anything anyway once she sees John. Fuck you, AU!Bobby, huh? Well, it's in character. 

Oy. I knew that that scene wasn't going to blow me away because of what they've done to Mary, but I didn't think it would feel that underwhelming.

And as for the bolded part...Oy. X 2. :-/

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ahrtee

ahrtee

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

He helped but "taking out"? Try another one, Dabb. 

Mary even calls out Dean's name as an afterthought. But she forgets anything anyway once she sees John. Fuck you, AU!Bobby, huh? Well, it's in character. 

Well, it's apparently an AU (or at least, the "wish world" isn't exactly like ours.)  I noticed both boys looked a little startled at that statement.  Maybe that was their first clue that something was off/wrong?

Or maybe just that Dabb didn't remember/didn't care.  *shrugs*

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SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)
3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

He helped but "taking out"? Try another one, Dabb. 

Mary even calls out Dean's name as an afterthought. But she forgets anything anyway once she sees John. Fuck you, AU!Bobby, huh? Well, it's in character. 

That's an AFTERTHOUGHT?  Sounds like a pause to me.  

As for "taking out"... it's an AR -- what John knows is ONLY what the boys told him.  And we don't know WHAT the boys told John.  We may not even see how they explain it.  But I could defintely see the Dean saying you 'traded your life for mine and then climbed outta Hell to wrestle Yellow Eyes while I shot him with the Colt. ' Simple, and what actually happened.  YED had the Colt pointed at Dean, 'Soul!John' grabbed YED and wrestled with him.  Freeing the gun.  YED threw off John, smoked back into the janitor.  Dean shot YED.  In Dean's eyes he likely DOES credit John with at least half the kill.  Dean shot the gun but it was John grabbing YED that allowed Dean to do so.  

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Soooooo,  Mary couldn't relate to her adult sons because she knew her babies, but she has no issues kissing a complete stranger 30 years older than her. Alrighty then.

After coming back from the dead, seeing John seems 'par'. That's he's older is no big deal. And he's the love of her life.  Heaven made it so with their cupid's arrow. Bobby would totally understand and so do the boys.  

Edited by SueB
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SueB

SueB

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I’ve been thinking about what they will use for the ‘THEN’.  They could go ‘special’ like the 200th but I suspect it’ll be a real sequence.  

Seventeen obvious clips (they can’t use them all, of course):

John related:

-‘Take you’re brother outside..’

- One of the Sam/John conflict scenes like ‘you left’ /‘you closed the door’

-Weechester Dean ‘watch out for Sammy’

- ghost John wrestling with YED OR the boys watching their father burn with some different voice quote about how he gave up his life for them

Premise related:

- ‘What Is and what never should be’ talking about a dream world

- Billie talking about the fragility of the multiverse construct OR Billy telling Dean his story only ends one way

- Men of Letters callback about it having all sorts of stuff

Not!Apocalypse:

- Zachariah sending Dean to 2014 or Dean killing Zachariah

- Sam jumping in the pit

- Cas intro from Lazarus Rising

Current Plot:

- Again Billie saying it only ends one way

- Dean agreeing to let Sam and Cas try some more before getting in the box

- Michael saying something evil

 

Less likely:

- Something with Mary’s resurrection

- A montage of universe ending Big Bads they’ve defeated

- Something Mary/Bobby - I think they are going to ignore his existence in this ep

- Montage of weird Alternate realities ala French Mistake, Dream Walker windows into AUs, My Heart Will Go On (the Titanic didn’t sink ep) ... something lighthearted to remind us shit gets weird in the Suoernatural universe   

 

What did I miss?

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

1 hour ago, SueB said:

 

After coming back from the dead, seeing John seems 'par'. That's he's older is no big deal. And he's the love of her life.  Heaven made it so with their cupid's arrow. Bobby would totally understand and so do the boys.  

Sound a lot like the arguments made for why she should've been thrilled to have a chance to be with her sons. If she was the Mary we knew pre-12×01 I'd agree with you. But the fickle Ice Queen that is Mary 2.0? Not so much. 

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
On 2/5/2019 at 10:29 AM, ILoveReading said:

There are no episode descriptions but titles for the next three are

Episode 14- Ouroboros  (The medical symbol of a snake eating it tail)  Writer- Yockey

Episode 15- Peace of Mind Writer- Yockey and Fitzmartin (Dabb's assistant, which I'm dreading since her twitter reads like a 12 year old on tumblr.

Episode 16- Don't Go in the Woods Writer Perez and Nick Vaught (Works for the show, but not sure in what capacity)

Here is a spoiler sheet with a summary of all upcoming spoilers, 

http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/post/175783241248/supernatural-season-14-spoiler-sheet

It's usually accurate and reliable.

 

I'm also hoping that JA/Dean has an important role in Yockey's two episodes and mainly because of their titles-and by important, I'm not talking screen-time as much as I'm hoping that his present quandary will somehow be addressed and/or lessened so as to lead us from 14-15 because the Ouroboros symbol(the snake eating it's own tail) is also symbolic of life and death being a circular and cyclical occurrence.

And there was that Virgil quote concerning Death coming that Jason Fischer tweeted about while they were filming 15.

Edited by Myrelle
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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

I wonder if Dean really did get in the box and everything from the moment he 'woke up' from his nightmare on is a construct - either of his broken mind, or from Michael - freed from the mind-cage and bent on screwing with Dean forever. It would be quite cruel to give Dean the 'win' with Donatello, easing Sam's fears, John back and in the bunker, only to wake him up all over again. I did hear there was a twist/surprise ending to 300 (didn't I?).

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Myrelle

Myrelle

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I wonder if Dean really did get in the box and everything from the moment he 'woke up' from his nightmare on is a construct - either of his broken mind, or from Michael - freed from the mind-cage and bent on screwing with Dean forever. It would be quite cruel to give Dean the 'win' with Donatello, easing Sam's fears, John back and in the bunker, only to wake him up all over again. I did hear there was a twist/surprise ending to 300 (didn't I?).

Man, I wish that the writers for this show had half the imagination that I'm seeing at this site this morning.

And yes, I could have sworn that I read somewhere that there was a surprise ending, too. And I even tried to look for it, but couldn't find it again. ;-/

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

12 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Man, I wish that the writers for this show had half the imagination that I'm seeing at this site this morning.

And yes, I could have sworn that I read somewhere that there was a surprise ending, too. And I even tried to look for it, but couldn't find it again. ;-/

It would be an explanation for Cas miraculously being able to fix Donatello when he couldn't before.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)
Quote

Is that the 'treetopper' person? If so, I thought they were just a (uber) fan? How do they get a screener?

They, she? is writing for some media site so she got press credentials. She went to the 300th episode party, too and covers the media room at Comic Con, stuff like that. And not just for SPN, for a lot of CW shows.  

Quote

I wonder if Dean really did get in the box and everything from the moment he 'woke up' from his nightmare on is a construct - either of his broken mind, or from Michael - freed from the mind-cage and bent on screwing with Dean forever. It would be quite cruel to give Dean the 'win' with Donatello, easing Sam's fears, John back and in the bunker, only to wake him up all over again. I did hear there was a twist/surprise ending to 300 (didn't I?).

If it was very close to the end of the Season, I`d say this could be a real possibility but with 7 more episodes yet to go after the 300th and after such a reveal? I don`t think this is the case. The writing would have to be mega clever and interconnected to fill at least 6 of those episodes, the SPN writers would never tackle such an endavour.   

Edited by Aeryn13
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

34 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I wonder if Dean really did get in the box and everything from the moment he 'woke up' from his nightmare on is a construct - either of his broken mind, or from Michael - freed from the mind-cage and bent on screwing with Dean forever. It would be quite cruel to give Dean the 'win' with Donatello, easing Sam's fears, John back and in the bunker, only to wake him up all over again. I did hear there was a twist/surprise ending to 300 (didn't I?).

I would love something like this.  This would be something Michael would do.  Let Dean think his family came after him and talked him out of it.  Then reuniting with this family.  That would be soul crushing for sure. 

But I'm not sure it would fit with Jared saying Sam gets closure and he could die happy if it was just a dream. 

Although Misha said there was time travel so maybe with a final wish (since they usually come in three's), Dean wishes that he could go back and unchange his mind and get in the box. 

It would also explain why we haven't seen Jensen on location shoots since Christmas break*

 

13 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The writing would have to be mega clever and interconnected to fill at least 6 of those episodes, the SPN writers would never tackle such an endavour.   

The sad thing is that it could be done, (MOTW eps are Michael messing with Dean and letting him think he's free or its Sam remembering something he and Dean did together).  Dean vs Michael scenes.  Or Michael flashbacks.  So many possibilities.

*I'm not saying he hasn't been filming or not on location, just that there have been no sightings.

I hope its not a case of Dean sequestering himself, because in that case, I'd rather he would have went into the box.

34 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I wonder if Dean really did get in the box and everything from the moment he 'woke up' from his nightmare on is a construct - either of his broken mind, or from Michael - freed from the mind-cage and bent on screwing with Dean forever. It would be quite cruel to give Dean the 'win' with Donatello, easing Sam's fears, John back and in the bunker, only to wake him up all over again. I did hear there was a twist/surprise ending to 300 (didn't I?).

I would love something like this.  This would be something Michael would do.  Let Dean think his family came after him and talked him out of it.  Then reuniting with this family.  That would be soul crushing for sure. 

But I'm not sure it would fit with Jared saying Sam gets closure and he could die happy if it was just a dream. 

Although Misha said there was time travel so maybe with a final wish (since they usually come in three's), Dean wishes that he could go back and unchange his mind and get in the box. 

It would also explain why we haven't seen Jensen on location shoots since Christmas break*

 

13 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The writing would have to be mega clever and interconnected to fill at least 6 of those episodes, the SPN writers would never tackle such an endavour.   

The sad thing is that it could be done, (MOTW eps are Michael messing with Dean and letting him think he's free or its Sam remembering something he and Dean did together).  Dean vs Michael scenes.  Or Michael flashbacks.  So many possibilities.

*I'm not saying he hasn't been filming or not on location, just that there have been no sightings.

I hope its not a case of Dean sequestering himself, because in that case, I'd rather he would have went into the box.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

36 minutes ago, Jakes said:

No--it isn't Dean dreamed being out of the box...Dean has a real wish which brings John.  That would be horrible anyway.   About Tree Topper she does media and writing...so yes she got to see the screener.  Says it's deeply emotional.

Yeah, given her previous insider tidbits, I'll take that for what it's worth (to me).

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

7 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Good grief, Sam. Dean is here because of you and your desire for your 'family' over everything else. So maybe climb down off that high horse? Holy fuck, do these people really never watch their own show or even read a script that isn't theirs?

This is precisely why I disliked the end of the last ep.

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SueB

SueB

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Here’s an episode commentary.  It doesn’t have specifics but it does SPOIL the feel of the boys encounter with John.  I wanted to know, so I read it and am happy.  Between 3 previews and this article, this article may be a little more details than you want. 

Read only with warning understood please:

Hypable spoilery episode review

Stop reading now if you don’t want any more insights.....

 

Still reading?....

?

....

??

My thoughts: EXCELLENT.  Sounds like it’ll be perfect. I have no interest in vitriol or vengeance.  This family has issues but they love each other.  And it sounds like a level of closure is achieved. What Sam and Dean want/need matters IMO, what some elements of fandom may want - pfffft.  I’m glad those elements don’t write the show. Really looking forward to tomorrow.  

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Good grief, Sam. Dean is here because of you and your desire for your 'family' over everything else. So maybe climb down off that high horse? Holy fuck, do these people really never watch their own show or even read a script that isn't theirs?

For me, there's a difference between Sam wanting Dean to wait a while before going into the box and potentially messing with timelines, mainly because the second one has so many variables involved. Sam has faith in Dean to keep Michael locked up and to know when it's getting to be too much. Sure it could go wrong, but there's mainly one thing to worry about. With time travel and timeline stuff there are potentially a whole bunch of variables to worry about and many things that could go wrong.

I agree that both are risky things, but I can understand Sam's worry there.

One of the reasons the angels might have sent Dean back in time in the first place was potentially to mess with the timeline and create the outcome that they wanted - in that case the YED interested in Mary and her family. And if that was the case, it had lasting effects on what happened afterwards.

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juppschmitz

juppschmitz

(edited)
11 hours ago, Jakes said:

No--it isn't Dean dreamed being out of the box...Dean has a real wish which brings John.  That would be horrible anyway.   About Tree Topper she does media and writing...so yes she got to see the screener.  Says it's deeply emotional.

Well, some people found the end of "Prophet and Loss" deeply emotional.

Okay, I did, too, but not in the way the above statement implies.

I mean, yes, there were emotions involved alright, just not the ones the writers intended.

Edited by juppschmitz
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Advanced Preview

Pretty much what other sites reported. Most seem to agree on that Sam has the most cathartic scene with John. Which I'd be okay with if the Dean/John scene focuses on Dean and gives him the kind of closure he deserves.

Apparently quite a few easter egg callbacks to previous episodes and likely a retrospective of "where they are now and how they got there" for the brothers.

I just hope that's better handled than Arrow attempting the same concept in its 150th this week. Come in, SPN, that's a low bar to beat.     

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

Let's see how I do with these dialogue teases. 

So you’ve been busy.- John to the boys
The skull of Sarah Goode.- Sam
I wouldn’t do that if I were you.- Zacheriah
They always talk too much.- Random teens
I have a family.- AU Cas
I’m freaking out.- We know this was Dean.
Don’t drink coffee and stick to a raw food diet. - Dean
February 7th. That’s skip day.- Dean
Baby, Baby! Please tell me you’re not hurt.- John to Mary
We should burn that right now.- Sam
God bless kale.- Sam
C’mon Constantine.- Dean
You fought for us, and you loved us.- Dean to Cas, during the begging scene.  Or Dean to John during his one one one.

7 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

there's a difference between Sam wanting Dean to wait a while before going into the box and potentially messing with timelines,

But Dean didn't really mess with the timeline.  He made a wish to get rid of Michael, but the pearl read his mind.  Dean using the pearl is a direct result of him giving into Sam last week.  Dean wanted to go into the box to avoid tempting fate.

Sam's kind a hypocrite to be lecturing him about tempting fate. 

It's not like he deliberately bought John back. 

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S Cook Productions

S Cook Productions

12 hours ago, SueB said:

Here’s an episode commentary.  It doesn’t have specifics but it does SPOIL the feel of the boys encounter with John.  I wanted to know, so I read it and am happy.  Between 3 previews and this article, this article may be a little more details than you want. 

Read only with warning understood please:

Hypable spoilery episode review

Stop reading now if you don’t want any more insights.....

 

Still reading?....

?

....

??

My thoughts: EXCELLENT.  Sounds like it’ll be perfect. I have no interest in vitriol or vengeance.  This family has issues but they love each other.  And it sounds like a level of closure is achieved. What Sam and Dean want/need matters IMO, what some elements of fandom may want - pfffft.  I’m glad those elements don’t write the show. Really looking forward to tomorrow.  

...and it gave me just enough insight on how they will handle Old Cas, one who never fell or raised Dean from perdition. That should be interesting. He will probably be badass and have a stick up his butt lol. 

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Myrelle

Myrelle

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

But Dean didn't really mess with the timeline.  He made a wish to get rid of Michael, but the pearl read his mind.  Dean using the pearl is a direct result of him giving into Sam last week.  Dean wanted to go into the box to avoid tempting fate.

Sam's kind a hypocrite to be lecturing him about tempting fate. 

It's not like he deliberately bought John back

Thank you.

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SueB

SueB

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I don't get the fuss over Sam urging caution.  They KNOW messing with the timeline (even unintentionally) is bad news.  And if the shoe was on the other foot, Dean would be the one saying we gotta fix this.  The boys balance each other out.  They talk things over.  It's why they are still alive.  Dean's right in that one dinner in the Bunker is pretty limited.  Sam's right, touching the timeline is super dangerous.  But the kicker will be the unintended consequences.  Sam would LOVE for Dean to have everything he wants, Mom & Dad back  -- permanently -- and no Michael in his head.  Sam loves Dean (I mean as a brother -- I will ALWAYS mean just as a brother in case there's any confusion).  But whenever they get into these complex altered realities, they just can't ride the happy wave.  Ellen alive and with Bobby.  Reversing that hurt like hell.  Neither wanted it.  But that had to be done.

So, Sam makes the OBVIOUS statement.  Doesn't mean he's unkind or 'mean to Dean'.  It means he's already realized that what they just got (Dad), they don't get to keep.  And Dean knows it too.  But the longer they let the AR hang out, the longer the ripple effect could get out of control.  And the longer they hang out, the more it's going to hurt to take away.  So, they need to figure out HOW to correct the situation -- even if they don't want to. 

Again, if Sam didn't point it out, Dean would do so pretty quickly as well.  This is not a shocking conclusion Sam has come to. And Dean's response -- to me it's clear he was only a nanosecond behind Sam in figuring it out.  It's why Dean sounds so exasperated in his response.  He's knows all the arguments and he doesn't want to lose his happy moment.  He's arguing with not only Sam but himself when he says 'just one freakin' dinner'.  

In short, they are TOTALLY on the same page - Dean KNOWS it has to be examined. Sam brings up the obvious. Dean wants to bask a little longer.  Sam is gonna say okay because he wants that too.  But it wouldn't be the boys if they didn't question the wisdom of this move.  They are very bright men and its why the world is still spinning in the SPN Universe.   

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

So, Sam makes the OBVIOUS statement

If Sam knows Dean is only a nanosecond behind him, and he wants Dean to get his hearts desire, why doesn't he let Dean bask in it before bringing up the negative consequences. 

Shouldn't he be confidant that Dean will bring this up if they are on the same page. 

It's the same thing as Sam did when Mary came back.  Dean knew that Mary was having trouble but he wanted to enjoy her presence for awhile before bringing up the heavy stuff. 

Why can't Sam just let Dean have a moment to breath before he starts.  Dean knows. He doens't need to be lectured.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Sam's kind a hypocrite to be lecturing him about tempting fate. 

It's this part that is the biggest problem for me in that scene-the lecturing-like delivery AND that Dean doesn't get to point this very thing out to Sam.

But again, I'd guess that these writers didn't even realize that they did this!

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

4 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

It's this part that is the biggest problem for me in that scene-the lecturing-like delivery AND that Dean doesn't get to point this very thing out to Sam.

But again, I'd guess that these writers didn't even realize that they did this!

Yup.

It isn't what Sam is saying, it's how and when he's saying it. Especially how. Samsplaining and all-but rolling his eyes at dumb ol' Dean is just comes across so condescending. It's off-putting to the point it makes me want to smack him.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Yup.

It isn't what Sam is saying, it's how and when he's saying it. Especially how. Samsplaining and all-but rolling his eyes at dumb ol' Dean is just comes across so condescending. It's off-putting to the point it makes me want to smack him.

This, but its also the timing that is giving me the biggest WTF moment.  Not even a week ago, Sam begged Dean to tempt fate.

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NougatJack

NougatJack

Could we talk about the Outoboros promo?

I think they want to fool us in thinking Jack goes dark.

My theory is: While Sam and Dean were busy with the box and the prophet, Jack started to research why they failed to safe him in „Unhuman nature“. Somehow he finds out that Rowena betrayed him with the spell she used after Jack drunk Gabriels grace. Rowena doesn‘t trust Jack as he is the son of Lucifer and destoyed the gracewith the spell. In the promo, we see Jack looking for something. He found the archangel grace they took from Michael in „Nihilism“ off-screen. He drank some of it in order to proove his theory. (The scene where he stands by the mirror). It works, and Jack gets some of his powers back.

In the other scene of the promo Jack confronts Rowena and shouts something like „You hate me because I‘m the son of Lucifer“ Then he put her to sleep, because we all know that Sam is the one who will kill Rowena someday.

What do you think?

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SueB

SueB

  • Author
6 hours ago, NougatJack said:

Could we talk about the Outoboros promo?

I think they want to fool us in thinking Jack goes dark.

My theory is: While Sam and Dean were busy with the box and the prophet, Jack started to research why they failed to safe him in „Unhuman nature“. Somehow he finds out that Rowena betrayed him with the spell she used after Jack drunk Gabriels grace. Rowena doesn‘t trust Jack as he is the son of Lucifer and destoyed the gracewith the spell. In the promo, we see Jack looking for something. He found the archangel grace they took from Michael in „Nihilism“ off-screen. He drank some of it in order to proove his theory. (The scene where he stands by the mirror). It works, and Jack gets some of his powers back.

In the other scene of the promo Jack confronts Rowena and shouts something like „You hate me because I‘m the son of Lucifer“ Then he put her to sleep, because we all know that Sam is the one who will kill Rowena someday.

What do you think?

Oooh.  I hope so.  That's a great answer.  And why Rowena HAD to be 'surprised' it was Lucifer's son.  Maybe she harbored anger towards him all along?  But yes, the promo sure looks like "Jack went bad".  

Ouroboros - Self-eating snake... that HAS to mean something.   Just the alchemy?  What about Jack 'eating' his own soul?  IDK.  Something.  

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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