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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
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Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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catrox14

catrox14

I've always wanted a tragi-happy ending for the boys. Swan Song should have ended with both boys going into the pit together as either a series end or even a way to start s6 with Cas having to figure out how to get them out.

 

I think it's only fitting that the boys die together saving the world.  Or make it a little ambiguous like the end of Angel. Maybe they don't show them actually dying but it's pretty clear they go down fighting.  I just want the ending to be appropriate to the boys journey and one living and one dying seems wrong to me on every level. And I can't see where a happy ending fits the entire tenor of the show. 

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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SueB

SueB

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Small tidbit spoiler from DCCon tweets.  Warning, I try to only post if multiple are saying the same thing and it still can either be unintentional or intentional misleading on the part of the actors.  Not that they would do ANYTHING to hurt the fans but they want to surprise us as well. So.. this is a potential spoiler but no guarantees with it:

 

Winchester Bros ‏@WinchesterBros 2h

Misha confirmed that at the end of this season Cas does not get his grace back. It's "dwindling". #DCcon

 

Fangasm ‏@FangasmSPN 2h

At the end of s9, Cas does not get his grace back. His batteries are running down #dccon

Which seems to suggest that Cas doesn't die but not necessarily. 

 

Not a spoiler but for those shippers out there:

 

Fangasm ‏@FangasmSPN 2h

Misha: if Jensen had his way, the handprint on dean would've been pinching his nipple #lol #dccon @mishacollins

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catrox14

catrox14

angasm ‏@FangasmSPN 2h

Misha: if Jensen had his way, the handprint on dean would've been pinching his nipple #lol #dccon @mishacollins

 

Oh. Gods. I laughed so hard at this. And you know what.  I believe that Jensen would want that because IMO that boy has a pretty naughty sense of humor. 

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NoWillToResist

NoWillToResist

Misha and Jensen certainly seem to have a history of...naughtiness...between them. Jensen keeps bringing the leers and suggestiveness to make Misha crack during filming. And apparently, while rehearsing the upcoming Dean/Cas hug, he asked Misha if that was half a roll of Certs in his pocket or if Misha was just happy to see him. :)

 

Since the show has now shown that angel blades can kill demons too, I am curious to see if the First Blade can be used against angels too, or whether it will be harmless like Ruby's knife.

 

I really hope these last three eps stand up to the hype. I feel like I've been waiting forever for them. And THREE episodes in a row with Dean, Cas and Sam? Be still my heart...

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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

I've always wanted a tragi-happy ending for the boys. Swan Song should have ended with both boys going into the pit together as either a series end or even a way to start s6 with Cas having to figure out how to get them out.

 

I think it's only fitting that the boys die together saving the world.  Or make it a little ambiguous like the end of Angel. Maybe they don't show them actually dying but it's pretty clear they go down fighting.  I just want the ending to be appropriate to the boys journey and one living and one dying seems wrong to me on every level. And I can't see where a happy ending fits the entire tenor of the show. 

If the show had ended around season 4 or 5 I would have been more OK with both dying. Now I'd just see it as an anticlimax. If it were me, I'd have them both live, and move on to somewhat happy lives, still haunted by their experiences. I'd have the last scenes as Dean and Sam, after both retiring and trying to live lives as best they can, getting sucked back into it, at least for one last journey.

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NoWillToResist

NoWillToResist

 

If the show had ended around season 4 or 5 I would have been more OK with both dying. Now I'd just see it as an anticlimax. If it were me, I'd have them both live, and move on to somewhat happy lives, still haunted by their experiences. I'd have the last scenes as Dean and Sam, after both retiring and trying to live lives as best they can, getting sucked back into it, at least for one last journey.

 

Yeah, I think I'd be miserable if, after 10 seasons of crap for the boys, they just died. I guess there could be an argument made that since just about everyone they've ever known and loved is dead, being reunited with them in Heaven (with maybe Cas able to visit) would be a happy ending for them but...I don't know...I think I'd find it kind of bleak? The dead people ain't going anywhere, so the boys can reunite later on, when they each die of old age. :)

 

I'd like them to be able to close the gates of Hell and maybe Heaven too, letting Dean and Sam semi-retire, and perhaps just be the research guys, letting the young dogs (like in the spin-off) clear out the straggling monsters. Or have Dean and Sam agree to clear out the last few demons, knowing that they can rest easy after that? Obviously, I'd like Cas to stick around too (don't care if it's human or angel, as long as he was happy with the result).

 

Folks at the DC con were saying that Misha had indicated that he'd had a bad week, and I'm hoping like hell that that's not an indicator that he knows he won't be invited back. Surely the show wouldn't get rid of him? My only happy thought at that would be seeing William Shatner's reaction. :)

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SueB

SueB

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Misha was also talking about J2 not letting him get a full line of dialog out for HOURS as some sort of prank. So that could be it.

 

Other tidbits:

 

Carry On ‏@CarryOn_SPN 2h

Jensen and Jared believes in what the writers do with their characters! #DCcon

 

Carry On ‏@CarryOn_SPN 2h

Jensen: Dean has had such a hard life, that finding hope at one point, especially soon, will be difficult #DCcon

 

Carry On ‏@CarryOn_SPN 2h

J2 wants to spend time doing SPN and with their family so they don't really want to do movies in between their very short breaks #DCcon

 

Carry On ‏@CarryOn_SPN 2h

Characteristics they love and relate to about their characters - Jared: Sam's love of research Jensen: Dean's loyalty #DCcon

 

Carry On ‏@CarryOn_SPN 7h

The whole gang gets back together soon. Jared: And Dean's all like "Cas, look at me bitch" and I'm like "c'mon guys!" #DCcon

 

Carry On ‏@CarryOn_SPN 7h

Jared: The writers have been trying to show who Cas and Crowley are outside of their relationship w/ the bros. #DCcon

 

I track many folks at the DCCon and I have to say the @Carryon_SPN provided the best tidbits today.

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kimrey

kimrey

I can't believe not one person asked them about the final episodes of the season.  I know they can't give much away, but I bet they would have given us a little something.  I'm pretty disappointed with the questions.  If someone brings up doing a musical episode one more time...

 

I hope some spoilery stuff comes out of their meet and greet reports!

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SueB

SueB

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J2 Got Me Good *.* @j2Freaks

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Jensen joked that Dean is too far gone so any advice he would give is pointless. #dccon

Well that's an indicator of where we leave Dean.  "Too Far Gone"  Yikes.

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ElleryAnne

ElleryAnne

In all seriousness, I do often find myself wondering how TPTB will decide to wrap the show.

 

 

My personal wish is for the boys to lose their memories of the stuff they've been through since John died.  It would be almost tragic on one level, but still leave them with the possibility of finding happiness going forward.  And then they can meet human Cas and relationships can be built from there.

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catrox14

catrox14

I think losing their memories would be as bad as Donna having her mind wiped by the Doctor. I'd rather they both die in a blaze of glory remembering every good and terrible thing that has happened to them.  They have done too much good in their lives saving people and hunting things to lose those memories especially for Dean unless he asked for it.  Is Cas going to wipe out the memories of every monster, demon, or angel that wants them dead out of vengeance?  That seems to really put the boys at a serious disadvantage not having the tools to fight back anymore. Imagine if Lucifer got out of the cage and went after them not caring that they don't remember anything.   Eeep. I'm not sure I can board that train :(

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SueB

SueB

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Another comment made by Jared was that if this was the last season he'd be worried about the brother's relationship but since they have a S10 he is not. 

 

That was comforting. 

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NoWillToResist

NoWillToResist

 

The whole gang gets back together soon. Jared: And Dean's all like "Cas, look at me bitch" and I'm like "c'mon guys!" #DCcon

 

I'm not even sure I understand what Jared is saying here. Dean has been emotionally shut down and closed off since taking on the MoC. I'd argue that Cas has managed to break through the shell here and there (even by phone) but I have trouble matching the promo pic of Dean looking constipated when Cas hugs him with the Dean described here. Old Dean? Yeah, he'd be wanting Cas' attention and he'd be paying attention to what Cas is up to (and worrying), but this Dean seem so shut down. I'd be MORE than happy if somehow Cas was Dean's emotional exception but I'd like to not get my hopes up.

 

 

Misha was also talking about J2 not letting him get a full line of dialog out for HOURS as some sort of prank. So that could be it.

 

But they finished filming a few weeks ago, so unless they got called back for re-shoots, I don't think on-set hijinks would have led up to the DCcon.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Jensen: Well, let me say this. I got to the last script, and just went ‘Oh. Wow. Oh wow. They went there.’ And that’s not something I often say.

 

Oh....crap.  I can't even.  The only things I can think of that would make Jensen react that way

 

  • Dean kills Sam which would be surprising because Dean has spent his whole life protecting Sam.
  • Cas kills Dean to keep him from becoming full Demon!Dean King of the Damned. Surprising because it's Cas and IMO that would be as awful for Cas because profound bond.
  • Dean kills Cas because the MoC causes him to lose control.
  • Happier reason: Dean and Cas kiss for real wearing their current meatsuits

 

The only reason I don't have Sam kills Dean is that I don't think that would be a huge surprise given that Dean thinks Sam hates him and that Dean has done more harm than good. Or maybe I'm projecting my issues with Sam here....LOL.

 

Also, screw you Jensen for being such a damn tease.  I am now simultaneously excited and terrified. EEP! Fuuuuucccckkk.

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SueB

SueB

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Also, screw you Jensen for being such a damn tease.  I am now simultaneously excited and terrified. EEP! Fuuuuucccckkk.

Oh yeah.  He knows what he's doing.

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NoWillToResist

NoWillToResist

 

Dean kills Sam which would be surprising because Dean has spent his whole life protecting Sam.

    Cas kills Dean to keep him from becoming full Demon!Dean King of the Damned. Surprising because it's Cas and IMO that would be as awful for Cas because profound bond.

    Dean kills Cas because the MoC causes him to lose control.

    Happier reason: Dean and Cas kiss for real wearing their current meatsuits

 

I doubt it's the first two since Sam or Dean dying would not be permanent (thus no real cliffhanger). Full-on killing Cas could be, so I'm scared. Your last one would fit the bill for "excited for S10, never been done on SPN, and the show 'going there'" and I would be so fucking shocked, I'd be catatonic for the summer - so I doubt it's right. :)

 

Dammit. *don't get excited, don't get excited*

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Since Dean is supposedly in such a bad place that Jensen said he couldn't think of anything to say to Dean because he was "too far gone" and Jared said Dean was "cray cray", I'm betting we don't get a smooch. 

 

CHCH Promohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNv-D1vi7TU

 

Is it warm in here?  I think it's warm in here.  A cold drink is in order.....

Edited by SueB
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catrox14

catrox14

Maybe the smooch is what snaps Dean out of the his madness?  Maybe...

 

Oh gods that clip. Who the hell is Dean wailing on that Sam is freaking out about?  I really don't want to be right about Dean killing Cas.  That would be too much. I take it back. I take it back. I take it back. Please make it not be true.  /actually getting kind of upset now.

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Wynterwolf

Wynterwolf

Yeah, I've kinda gotten to the point where having a character die on this show doesn't really mean what means to me on other shows... it's kinda more about some sort of transformation now, so I think they could do somehting interesting with that, but the dying part would just be the mechanism, not the important part (yes, I am in denial about any possibility where Cas doesn't come back for real). 

 

Your last one would fit the bill for "excited for S10, never been done on SPN, and the show 'going there'" and I would be so fucking shocked, I'd be catatonic for the summer - so I doubt it's right. :)

 

 

IKR?  OMG!  That would really be the only place they could go where I think I'd actually be shocked (in a good way).  And I wouldn't even need for it to be a kiss... If Cas just chose to sacrifice himself for Dean (to thwart whatever suicide-mission situation Dean puts himself in), with Dean realizing everything that means, and realizing that the price for his choice was too high... and to get an overt, verbal declaration from Dean about his romantic feelings, not unlike with Castle when Beckett was shot.  But there's still 3 more flipping episodes until we find out what that 'wow' meant!  ARGH!

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bluebonnet

bluebonnet

I'm getting super excited about the show tonight.  More so than I have been since probably season 5.  Part of it might be that I'm following spoilers and such on forums which I hadn't done before, but I think most of it is that the MoC storyline has done so well with building excitement.  It's so completely new, with Dean going dark.  

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catrox14

catrox14

Holy crap. That shift in Jensen when he goes "Who says I don't wanna do it"?  Damn.

 

You know what's great about this arc for Jensen is that Dean is still in there until the Blade-Life (for lack of a better word) kicks in.  It's almost like he's Dean but closer to Future!Dean but in the worst possible way.  Egads. My brain is all over the place with this.

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7kstar

7kstar

(edited)

Dean killing Sam would not create anything for me.  Cas dying again, nope not something I would go wow over. 

 

In fact when they killed Kevin, I just thought oh how predictable.  So I guess at this point I'm not sure they can surprise me.  My biggest issue, any time I've gotten excited, the show has really let me down...so I'll wait and see.  Hoping that they will do something that would surprise me.

 

What would be new, Dean walking away from the hunting life & and still saying NO to Sam.  To stop having the desire to save people, but not sure that would be a big surprise.

Edited by 7kstar
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starrysuki

starrysuki

I don't know. Just watching tonight's episode, I have the horrible feeling that Dean will end up killing Cas in the finale. Especially knowing that they haven't confirmed Misha in Season 10, I'll be on pins & needles all summer. I swear if Misha isn't back for Season 10 then I think I'm done. He's the reason why I started watching in the first place.

 

I have a horrible feeling that Metatron will possess Cas. I think Cas views himself as expendable and I think he would do anything to get the angels back to heaven by sacrificing himself. I think Dean will end up killing Metatron who will be in Cas. Tara Larsen tweeted a picture just last night of Misha in Cas costume eating a hamburger and she titled it Last Supper. Of coarse my mind was working overtime. Considering that Misha said in a recent interview that Metatron would have a new body, this leads me to believe that this could be a possibility.  

As far as Dean killing Sam, we know that wouldn't be very much of a cliffhanger because he's one of the stars and signed for Season 10.

I would die if it was a kiss between Dean & Cas but I don't think that will happen. As much as I would like it to, I don't think they would ever go there which is too bad because that certainly would be a 'wow' moment.

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NoWillToResist

NoWillToResist

(edited)

 

Just watching tonight's episode, I have the horrible feeling that Dean will end up killing Cas in the finale.

 

Especially since we've been given the foreshadowing that Cas's grace/power is fading and we've just seen Dean all powered up? Yeah, with that kind of power shift, a reverse crypt scene (minus the last minute save) is very much still on the table, IMO.

 

Also, since we've seen that an angel and demon can be in the same vessel, why not two angels? Metatron possessing Cas would be a smart move by Metatron since it's fair to assume that a right-minded Dean would never risk killing Cas. But a possessed by the MoC Dean? That's another story. And one which would cement Dean's fall into darkness. I could totally see Dean  going dark-eyed after that.

 

Fuck. Cas IS going to be killed by Dean, isn't he? *whimpers*

 

It won't make me excited for S10 (in fact, it will do the opposite), but it would certainly explain Jensen's "wow. Oh...wow" reaction.

Edited by NoWillToResist
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SueB

SueB

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Considering that Misha said in a recent interview that Metatron would have a new body, this leads me to believe that this could be a possibility.

I hadn't read that.  Any chance you remember where it was.  Not doubting you -- I just need to obsess over it a bit.  That freaks me out.

 

It would KILL me to have Dean kill Cas.  No No No No No. 

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starrysuki

starrysuki

The interview was awhile ago but he definitely said it. I believe the interview came out before Vegascon. I'll look around and see if I can find it. I kind of shrugged off the comment but with recent events, I feel they might be going in that direction.

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catrox14

catrox14

If Dean kills Cas because of Metatron, then I fully believe that Dean will be at the end of his rope. I think Dean would try to kill himself if that happens.  And if the MoC has made him immortal then I bet he'd accept a deal with Crowley to rule Hell out of misery because he thinks he wouldn't deserve anything better

 

IMO that would be more tragic than Dean killing Sam. I don't know why it just feels that way

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Wynterwolf

Wynterwolf

I could definitely see Metatron 'hiding' in either Sam or Cas, but what the outcome would be from that... ????  But after last night, I feel like something was just set up for Gavin... maybe he tries to take over from Daddy?  He was pretty chuffed about being a "prince".   

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starrysuki

starrysuki

Sue B, I found one of the articles. It's not the one I initially read but Misha's statement is similar. It's dated March 24 by Maureen Ryan from the Huffington Post. It's halfway down the page and Misha casually mentions " he doesn't look the same by the way. Maureen asks " He's played by a new actor and Misha says yes.

This whole thing is a mystery especially since Curtis Armstrong is reported to be in 922 & 923. In that little blurb he goes on to say that Metatron & Castiel are pitted against each other so my little scenario of Metatron possessing Cas might not be what's going to happen unless it occurs in the last couple of scenes of the finale.

I can't imagine him saying something that spoilery way back in March so maybe he was misunderstood.

 

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SueB

SueB

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@starrysuki, thank you for feeding my obsessive need to know every possible spoiler tidbit out there.  You're right -- that's too early for the script to be released.  I'm not sure what he meant. Am confused. 

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catrox14

catrox14

Misha can be super cagey and sarcastic and has the oddest sense of humor.  Heh for all we know he might be talking about Cas having a new coat or Metatron switching bodies with Gadreel or something. Misha is an odd bird and who knows what he was really talking about.  Or he was totally screwing with Mo Ryan.

 

I've been seeing elsewhere that God will be what we see, but we've already met God if Chuck is God. 

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NoWillToResist

NoWillToResist

 

If Dean kills Cas because of Metatron, then I fully believe that Dean will be at the end of his rope. I think Dean would try to kill himself if that happens.

 

I'm not even sure why Dean would necessarily want to kill Metatron per se. Sure, he ordered the hit on Kevin but the actual murder is on Gadreel, IMO. I don't think Dean necessarily cares one way or the other about the Earth-bound angels (except for Cas).

 

 

IMO that would be more tragic than Dean killing Sam. I don't know why it just feels that way

 

I'd find it more tragic too because, whether or not Dean agreed with Cas's methods, Cas has done everything - including dying a couple of times - for Dean. Dean can't even say that about his own brother. Cas doesn't even have the excuse of 'you're my brother' to justify the lengths he's gone to for Dean.

 

Dean values family and loyalty above everything else (including common sense) so if he is responsible for the murder of Cas? His best friend, his one consistently loyal 'family member', his...special man-shaped angel? Yeah, I honestly don't know how he'll recover. He was a fucking mess in S7 when he felt only partially responsible for Cas dying. To stick a knife Cas's gut with his own hands (or whatever)? S10 would be S7 to the factor of infinity. I will not have any interest in watching that.

 

Oh God. Please, please, please don't let this be direction TPTB are going in...

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starrysuki

starrysuki

Oh God. Please, please, please don't let this be direction TPTB are going in...

 

 

 

I know I won't be watching. It would just be too darn painful unless he comes back early Season 10.

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NoWillToResist

NoWillToResist

 

unless he comes back early Season 10.

 

Aaand since we haven't heard a word about Misha's future on the show, that's the other reason why I think there's merit to the Cas death spec.

 

If Cas' fate is not up in the air, why not let us know whether his contract was renewed? Seems to me that you'd only keep that quiet if (A) you want his perceived death to have narrative impact (which it won't if the audience knows he's coming back) or (B) you will be killing him off and you don't want to lose fans yet or have to deal with the shit-storm that will follow.

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bluebonnet

bluebonnet

How would Metatron even possess Cas?  Is the assumption that he has a spell up his sleeve that would bypass the consent requirement?  Would Jimmy Novak have to give the consent?  Does Jimmy Novak even still exist now that Cas has died and come back so many times?  I remember at the start of the season, the angel Hale wanted to 'become one' with Cas since his vessel was so strong, so that might be a bit of foreshadowing.  I'm just struggling to come up with ideas on how it would work.  Like, if there is no spell, what would lead Cas to consenting?  In season 6, didn't Cas mention something about dying over and over until the end of time to Crowley?  If Dean kills him, will using the First Blade make the difference on a possible Cas return?  Is that part of the 'great burden' that comes with the MoC?  

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starrysuki

starrysuki

I believe Jimmy is long gone. Yes, he would have to give his consent but I could see Cas fully expecting to die housing Metatron, as a sacrifice in order to get the angels home. Metatron mentioned that his grace was burning him out. Maybe since Cas believes he's going to die anyway he might as well take out Metatron at the same time. So I think Cas would say yes.

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catrox14

catrox14

I've been trying to find a happier speculation for this season and next. So I've come up with this.

 

Dean's humanity has always been his best quality.  He's imperfect and fucked up but IMO he would kill himself before being turned into a demon or an angel.  W

 

What if Dean is running a long con with the MoC. He said he knew what MoC is doing to him and he has to walk the path alone. That "NO" was not a desperate "no, don't take my precious".  IMO that was a purposeful, "I've got a mission and I'm gonna need that for the rest of my mission" refusal.  He's been saying "means to an end" but I've always thought that was more than just killing Abaddon.  Other than Cas and Anna he pretty much hates angels as much as demons but even more he still hates them fighting their wars on HIS planet.

 

I would LOVE it if Dean has been planning on becoming a demon because he wants to finally close the gates of hell and heaven. If he becomes King of Hell, he might just be able to slaughter all the demons himself, lose the MoC and get back to being a normal fucked up human. Then they get the angels back to heaven and they close that off as well. It could come down to a choice for Cas to stay on Earth or stay with the angels, but he's going to have to decide but the gates to heaven will be closed.  Monsters will still be on Earth. 

 

The boys get back in the Impala and drive off to resume saving people and hunting things. Series. End.

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starrysuki

starrysuki

I don't think Dean hates angels as much as he views them as dicks. Demons he hates. I don't think closing the gates is a good thing. Poor Kevin has been stuck in the veil with heaven closed. The souls need to go somewhere. Plus I think a good majority of the angels are okay. It's just some of the leaders we've met have been total douches. Angels can be a force for good. As Cas said to Naomi , angels are suppose to help humanity. I think somehow their purpose was changed when God left and the archangels took over. They hired people like Naomi to brainwash any angel that got out of line. Poor Cas has been prodded and probed many times. They need someone to help guide them to become forces of good again.

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catrox14

catrox14

I should have been more specific. I meant getting all the souls back into heaven and then close off Heaven. I think Dean just wants their shit off his planet. 

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