Spoilers With Speculation

[MysteryGuest]

25 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

And I'm the opposite! I'd hate to see it go back to the Jared and Jensen only show with others being lucky if they got one episode of proper focus. The Sam and Dean bond has been explored to death on its own. The show needs others to inject some life into things and add something new imo. 

I get that not everyone agrees.  And I don't mean just Jared and Jensen, but I'd have been more than happy with Team Free Will staying intact.  All that was needed was an improvement in the writing for both Cas and Crowley, and some good MOTW episodes.  Obviously, it's all subjective.  I feel like the show is going off in about a dozen different directions now, and I'm not particularly enamored with any of them.  

I feel a bit bamboozled by TPTB, because if this is their idea of "getting back to basics", they're delusional.  They've been telling us that now for a few years, and we're getting the exact opposite of that.  As someone who would love a season of just great scary stories with a cast I love, it's more than a little disappointing.

[catrox14]

I posted this in the SuperNormal thread and it didn't really click with me until now, that if this is from yesterday, could we be getting some mourning!scruff with Dean? I mean obviously he can just shave when he gets to set, but it was just a thought I had.

 

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I posted this in the SuperNormal thread and it didn't really click with me until now, that if this is from yesterday, could we be getting some mourning!scruff with Dean? I mean obviously he can just shave when he gets to set, but it was just a thought I had.

 

As much as I wish this was true, I think its probably that Jensen had a 4 day weekend and didn't shave. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

Just now, ILoveReading said:

As much as I wish this was true, I think its probably that Jensen had a 4 day weekend and didn't shave. 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking but maybe we'll get lucky :)

[ster1]

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I really hate the nephelim SL so much. I do wonder if they might roll Jackifer over to Wayward Sisters, if the pilot is picked up. I can totally see him being the "Hot Nephelim of Ambiguous Morality who will help Jody and Donna and maybe try to date Alex or Claire but can he be trusted??"

I'd be super surprised if the spin off isn't pretty much a done deal. They already know there's some fan support behind the concept and since a bunch of episodes with Jody/Donna/Claire/Alex have already aired, there's no need to test the ratings.  I'm thinking the pilot is more of a logistical episode that sets up the spin-off's jumping off point. 

(And yeah, a teen Nephilim moving over to romance the Wayward Sisters would totally be in line with the CW's mentality. )

[Princess Sparkle]

Mod Note: Reminder, if your post is more suited for the bitch vs jerk thread, it belongs in there (spoiler tagged when appropriate), not in here. Some posts have been hidden, and any new posts that are bitch vs jerk will be hidden.

[Jonesy]

I for one have no problem with the spawn of Satan plot--it can work with all the guys dealing with a blank slate with possible god-like powers.  It has potential--i'll wait and see on how it works.

[companionenvy]

I agree with Jakes. It can be done well or poorly. So far, I don't see any basis to judge which way it is going to go. I am hoping that ultimately, Cas is the one doing a lot of the "raising" of Jack, but it could give the Winchesters some interesting beats to play as well. 

[catrox14]

The thing for me is that this road so worn there a million plotholes now.  

• S1 and S2 was all about Sam and his potential for becoming the Boy King of the demon army. Would he go dark side and would Dean have to kill him?
• S3. Sam's potential for going off the rails trying to Save Dean from Hell.
• s4 Sam and his demon blood use leading to him going Dark Side and the fallout from that.
• s5  Sam's battle to not become Lucifer's vessel and if he does will that turn him to the devil forever?
• S5:  Jesse the AntiChrist - He was 8 or 9 and had the power to destroy with just a thought because he had no idea that's what he was doing. The only difference is he was half human/half demon and given that demons were created by Lucifer himself...it's kind of the same. 
• s6. Soulless Sam and what that means for being a human.
• s7 was not about that because it was humans vs leviathans YAY.
• s8 Are humans good and monsters bad or are humans bad and monsters good.
• s9 Dean going darkside with the Mark of Cain and can he stop it
• s10 Granted it was only for a hot minute but for demon!Dean in Riechenbach was specifically about him either coming to terms with his demon status or fighting against it, because he chose kill Lester's wife instead of him. It was carried through in Soul Survivor with Dean fighting his own humanity off by resisting the cure and breaking out of it, only to lose the battle in the end. 
• s11 h/t to @ILoveReading. Close redux of Amara.

 

But mostly, I don't like it because IMO it's a lowkey redux of Cas' entire character arc in a way, thus far.

The only aspect of this that interests me is Castiel's influence and he's going to be gone for Jackifer's truly formative years read months given the exponential growth factor.  I have no interest in the Winchesters guiding his humanity because it is more interesting for me to have Castiel teach him about humanity from his perspective since he as been both angel and human and back to angel. He's been God, a Leviathan and human.  And he learned about humanity through Dean and rebelled twice because of Dean.

I'm definitely not interested in Kelly Kline being lionized, canonized and sainted because Jackifer might reflect her good human side. She could have agreed to them trying to remove his grace for the safety of all. But NOPE, "I'm gonna have the Devil's baby no matter what".  UGH.  And it's Lucifer's stupid spawn. That alone makes me want to barf. Is Dabb trying to redeem Lucifer through his spawn? No thanks on that one. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by catrox14
clarity and purpose.

[companionenvy]

I guess for me, while I see all those similarities, I don't think it is repetitive enough to be an automatic "nope." Most plots have been done before in some fashion, after all. 

Sam, unlike Jack, wasn't a blank slate. And even Cas, despite having no experience being a human, had literally millenia of experience as an angel. That strikes me as very different from Jack, who is essentially an infant with an adult body and godlike powers. 

In any case, if Jack is a thinly written cipher, it won't work. But if he is a compelling character in his own right, it can. I'm willing to wait and see.

Although yeah, not a lot of interest in Daddy Lucifer. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

S1 and S2 was all about Sam and his potential for becoming the Boy King of the demon army. Would he go dark side and would Dean have to kill him?
S3. Sam's potential for going off the rails trying to Save Dean from Hell.

s4 Sam and his demon blood use.

s5 Sam's battle to not become Lucifer's vessel and if he does will that turn him to the devil forever?
s6. Soulless Sam and what that means for being a human.

Personally, I think you are over simplifying the season arcs here.  For example, I don't consider S4 to be all about Sam and his demon blood use.  I think the main plot/arc was about stopping Lilith from starting the Apocalypse.  Sam's demon blood use only one faction of that.   I could debunk the rest too.  I just don't have the energy anymore.  

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

I guess for me, while I see all those similarities, I don't think it is repetitive enough to be an automatic "nope." Most plots have been done before in some fashion, after all. 

Sam, unlike Jack, wasn't a blank slate. And even Cas, despite having no experience being a human, had literally millenia of experience as an angel. That strikes me as very different from Jack, who is essentially an infant with an adult body and godlike powers. 

In any case, if Jack is a thinly written cipher, it won't work. But if he is a compelling character in his own right, it can. I'm willing to wait and see.

Although yeah, not a lot of interest in Daddy Lucifer. 

They've even done that trope already with Jesse. He was what 8 or 9 and had the power to destroy with just a thought because he had no idea that's what he was doing.   The only difference is he was half human/half demon and given that demons were created by Lucifer himself...it's kind of the same. A little bit.

[Diane]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The thing for me is that this road so worn there a million plotholes now.  

S1 and S2 was all about Sam and his potential for becoming the Boy King of the demon army. Would he go dark side and would Dean have to kill him?
S3. Sam's potential for going off the rails trying to Save Dean from Hell.

s4 Sam and his demon blood use.

s5 Sam's battle to not become Lucifer's vessel and if he does will that turn him to the devil forever?
s6. Soulless Sam and what that means for being a human.

s7 was not about that because it was humans vs leviathans YAY!

s8 Are humans good and monsters bad? 

s9 Dean going darkside with the Mark of Cain and can he stop it

s10 Granted it was only for a hot minute but for demon!Dean in Riechenbach was specifically about him either coming to terms with his demon status or fighting against it, because he chose kill Lester's wife instead of him. It was carried through in Soul Survivor with Dean fighting his own humanity off by resisting the cure and breaking out of it, only to lose the battle in the end. 

But mostly, I don't like it because IMO it's a lowkey redux of Cas' entire character arc in a way, thus far.

The only aspect of this that interests me is Castiel's influence and he's going to be gone for Jackifer's truly formative years read months given the exponential growth factor.  I have no interest in the Winchesters guiding his humanity because it is more interesting for me to have Castiel teach him about humanity from his perspective since he as been both angel and human and back to angel. He's been God, a Leviathan and human.  And he learned about humanity through Dean and rebelled twice because of Dean.

I'm definitely not interested in Kelly Kline being lionized, canonized and sainted because Jackifer might reflect her good human side. She could have agreed to them trying to remove his grace for the safety of all. But NOPE, "I'm gonna have the Devil's baby no matter what".  UGH.  And it's Lucifer's stupid spawn. That alone makes me want to barf. Is Dabb trying to redeem Lucifer through his spawn? No thanks on that one. 

I agree way over simplified, I need to leave for my second job, I will reply tomorrow.

[catrox14]

30 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Personally, I think you are over simplifying the season arcs here.  For example, I don't consider S4 to be all about Sam and his demon blood use.  I think the main plot/arc was about stopping Lilith from starting the Apocalypse.  Sam's demon blood use only one faction of that.   I could debunk the rest too.  I just don't have the energy anymore.  

I think maybe you've misunderstood the point of my comment.  I was not intending to summarize each season in full but to hit on what I think are the basic tropes of the human in the monster vs the monster in the human that seem to be where it's headed with Jackifer.  I did actually address it all the way through s10 because I don't think s11 and s12 really went down that path as much ...for a nice change, but maybe the quoting only brought over those first 6 seasons but I did include all of them. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by catrox14
dropped the "we". I don't want that being misconstrued as speaking for more than myself.

[ILoveReading]

For me it's repetitive because Jack still sounds like a female Amara.   Plus, as @catrox14 said its territory we've covered so many times.  Can you over come your nature?  This question has been asked and answered so many times.  We know the answer is Yes.    What more they can explore with this concept?

Because what are they going to do with Jack?  He might go on a hunt and mess up, but then like last year Sam and Dean both look dumb because they're missing obvious things?

Do we (general we) really need to go down this road with Sam again?  I thought he made his peace with it years ago.  That' whole "if you want to kill/hate Jack, you want to kill/hate me," irked me more than any other spoiler because really Sam?    How do you avoid this looking manipulative on Sam's part, because what more does Dean have to prove he he doesn't hate Sam or think he's evil?

Edited August 10, 2017 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

19 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

For me it's repetitive because Jack still sounds like a female Amara.

I didn't really think about that but I can see. I should update my post to include Amara. The only difference I guess is that Amara was always not human other than using the vessel so she could be on Earth. Which is really weird, to me

[ILoveReading]

38 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I didn't really think about that but I can see. I should update my post to include Amara. The only difference I guess is that Amara was always not human other than using the vessel so she could be on Earth. Which is really weird, to me

Amara was basically born a blank slate and was given a rotten start because of being trapped for all those years and being raised by Crowley.  But she was described as being able to save the world or destroy it.  Literally the same description they used for Jack. 

[DittyDotDot]

24 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Amara was basically born a blank slate and was given a rotten start because of being trapped for all those years and being raised by Crowley.  But she was described as being able to save the world or destroy it.  Literally the same description they used for Jack. 

Except, Amara wasn't a blank slate at all. She may have been "born" into this world as a human baby while experiencing God's creation for the first time, but she was a very old being whose slate was already full of experiences and ideas long before she was locked away. Jack is a brand new being who hasn't done or experienced much of anything. The only thing I see as similar between Amara and Jack is they both have the potential to destroy or save, but isn't that true of every character, especially the supernatural ones?

Edited August 10, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

28 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Amara was basically born a blank slate and was given a rotten start because of being trapped for all those years and being raised by Crowley.  But she was described as being able to save the world or destroy it.  Literally the same description they used for Jack. 

Ah I gotcha. I never really believed the Darkness was a blank slate. I figured she was always going to be what she already was and she just wanted a new body so she could track down Ghuck in the end. But I get where you are coming from. 

For me, Jesse is probably the literal do over. Like why not just bring Jesse back LOL. 

I'm not particularly convinced that Jackifer will be that much of a blank slate either. It feels a bit like some spin that justifies why Dean and Sam  have to have a not-kid to raise. I mean it's not like Jack is an actual child. If he was came out as a fully grown adult male with apparently a fully formed brain who can walk and it seems clean up his mother and lay her in repose and make Cas save him by killing Dagon, then I think he'll be able to do a lot more. To me that blank slate will solely be about morality and whether he can smite willy nilly.

Edited August 10, 2017 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

For me, it's a matter of the super abilities.  Cas' powers have waxed and waned since he started on this show, depending on the plot.  It's been annoying and extremely inconsistent.  Now we have another, even more powerful being, in addition to Cas and Lucifer.  Is Cas coming back powerless this time so Jack can be the one with the angel powers?  It's just more of the same to me.  As to who gets to play daddy to a grown up baby, I honestly don't want to see any of them play that role.  

My biggest issue is that I had hoped they'd move away from the heaven/hell storyline.  They've run out of things to write for these characters, which is why Mark Sheppard is no longer with us, so why bring in more super-powered characters to replace him?  Am I the only one who would enjoy seeing Sam and Dean just get back to "saving people, hunting things"?

[DittyDotDot]

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm not particularly convinced that Jackifer will be that much of a blank slate either. It feels a bit like some spin that justifies why Dean and Sam  have to have a not-kid to raise. I mean it's not like Jack is an actual child. If he was came out as a fully grown adult male with apparently a fully formed brain who can walk and it seems clean up his mother and lay her in repose and make Cas save him by killing Dagon, then I think he'll be able to do a lot more. To me that blank slate will solely be about morality and whether he can smite willy nilly.

Sure, Jack has a fully formed body and brain, but without any experiences or knowledge, what good is that brain or body?

7 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Is Cas coming back powerless this time so Jack can be the one with the angel powers?

I'm thinking Cass will not come back powerless this time; in fact, I'm thinking he'll come back more powerful. I think it more likely Jack's powers will be the inconsistent ones since it sounds like he won't have control over them at first. 

Maybe the writers have decided to finally stop whining about how powers are story problems and instead are openly embracing them this season? I'd rather they just power everything down a bit, but I also am tired of the whining, so... .

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

Am I the only one who would enjoy seeing Sam and Dean just get back to "saving people, hunting things"?

I don't mind them having angels, because I'm selfish and I want Cas around a lot LOL 

If I have to be stuck with the boys raising a nephiliim,  I'd  be a lot more amenable to it if was Cas' actual spawn because they love Cas, he's their family and Lucifer is the devil and awful and dangerous and should be dead with no spawn.

If the point is for the show just to have the boys raise a child, them taking in Cas' child is a lot more reasonable, yet, even that would last only so long for me, because it should also grow quickly, develop and be sent off to Wayward Sisters LOL.  Then Cas is resurrected, he finds out they did a good job with his kid, and everyone is happy and TFW gets back to the business of hunting. Cas can go visit his kid from time to time. 

So obviously the show did exactly the opposite of that and I'm stuck with Lucifer's spawn. Sigh.

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Sure, Jack has a fully formed body and brain, but without any experiences or knowledge, what good is that brain or body?

He was savvy enough to ensure that he couldn't be killed.  IMO Jackifer is a lot more developed than not which is why I said that I think it will be more about his morality than his physical being. I think he'll be able to speak and function. Or at least I hope so. LOL

[Wayward Son]

10 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

For me, it's a matter of the super abilities.  Cas' powers have waxed and waned since he started on this show, depending on the plot.  It's been annoying and extremely inconsistent.  Now we have another, even more powerful being, in addition to Cas and Lucifer.  Is Cas coming back powerless this time so Jack can be the one with the angel powers?  It's just more of the same to me.  As to who gets to play daddy to a grown up baby, I honestly don't want to see any of them play that role.  

My biggest issue is that I had hoped they'd move away from the heaven/hell storyline.  They've run out of things to write for these characters, which is why Mark Sheppard is no longer with us, so why bring in more super-powered characters to replace him?  Am I the only one who would enjoy seeing Sam and Dean just get back to "saving people, hunting things"?

I'm not super attached to the heaven and hell storyline. I'm attached to Castiel, but I'd be happy for them to make him human and move on from it! However, Id want a mytharc  of some sort. If the show were to go to a pure monster of the week format then it turns down into a crappy police procedural with monsters instead of criminals, and, well, there's a reason I don't watch police procedural shows . 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Wayward Son

[MysteryGuest]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

I'm not super attached to the heaven and hell storyline. I'm attached to Castiel, but I'd be happy for them to make him human and move on from it! However, Id want a mytharc  of some sort. If the show were to just go to a pure monster of the week format the it turns down into a crappy police procedural with monsters instead of criminals... there's a reason I don't watch police procedural shows . 

I absolutely consider Castiel a major part of Team Free Will, so I don't want him going anywhere.  And it doesn't necessarily need to be just a series of MOTW episodes.  They could make it into a longer story arc.  That was part of my hope for this season.  The BMOL is gone and Team Free Will is left to clean up the aftermath.  Lots of pissed off monsters out there who had entire packs wiped out in rather cruel fashion last year.  I would think they'd want their revenge.  It would mean involving more hunters, utilizing the Bunker, basically setting up the AMOL.  But because they now know that not all monsters are bad, and they even know how to cure some, I think they could write some pretty interesting stories.  

This show started out as a story about two brothers, and then Cas and Crowley were added, which I loved.  Now it's Lucifer, Jack, a potentially powered up Castiel...it's looking more like Clash of the Titans than Supernatural to me.  I enjoy watching the boys actually be clever and skilled at fighting.  I don't want them to just sic their attack nephilim on monsters.  

Edited August 11, 2017 by MysteryGuest
I can't type.

[Wayward Son]

How many appearances do you guys think the regulars will make this season? My guesses are

 

Jared and Jensen = 23/23. This is a statement rather than a guess haha. 

Alexander Calvert = 13/23. Thirteen seems to be the shows upper limit for recurring cast in recent years. Since he's young, and more importantly,  I'm speculating cheap he'll probably reach the quota. 

Mark Pellegrino = 11-12/23. Mark has tons of experience in the industry and probably negotiated for a high wage as a result. I think like Mark Sheppard he'll appear in slightly less than the upper limit. 

Misha Collins = 11/23. This would match his number of appearances in season 12. My personal spec is that his last contract negotiation came with a salary increase in addition to the "and" credit. 

 

Bonus 

 

Samantha Smith = 10-11/13. I think she'll play a decent part in the season, but not as big a part as last year now the novelty of Mary's return has worn off.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Wayward Son

[RulerofallIsurvey]

13 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

 Am I the only one who would enjoy seeing Sam and Dean just get back to "saving people, hunting things"?

Absolutely not.  

I'd love more of a S1-S2 format.  That's what drew me in to the show in the first place.  At the same time, I'm not willing to completely diss the few spoilers we've gotten before I see how it plays out.

In fact, maybe I'm just crazy (okay, don't answer that!) but I'm still hoping we get something like this this year:

13 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

And it doesn't necessarily need to be just a series of MOTW episodes.  They could make it into a longer story arc.  That was part of my hope for this season.  The BMOL is gone and Team Free Will is left to clean up the aftermath.  Lots of pissed off monsters out there who had entire packs wiped out in rather cruel fashion last year.  I would think they'd want their revenge.  It would mean involving more hunters, utilizing the Bunker, basically setting up the AMOL.  But because they now know that not all monsters are bad, and they even know how to cure some, I think they could write some pretty interesting stories.  

Because I think that sounds interesting.  And I think, Dabb has alluded to something like this happening with the bunker.  So, I'll wait and see.  

[nightwing877]

6 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

How many appearances do you guys think the regulars will make this season? My guesses are

 

Jared and Jensen = 23/23. This is a statement rather than a guess haha. 

Alexander Calvert = 13/23. Thirteen seems to be the shows upper limit for recurring cast in recent years. Since he's young, and more importantly,  I'm speculating cheap he'll probably reach the quota. 

Mark Pellegrino = 11-12/23. Mark has tons of experience in the industry and probably negotiated for a high wage as a result. I think like Mark Sheppard he'll appear in slightly less than the upper limit. 

Misha Collins = 11/23. This would match his number of appearances in season 12. My personal spec is that his last contract negotiation came with a salary increase in addition to the "and" credit. 

 

Bonus 

 

Samantha Smith = 10-11/13. I think she'll play a decent part in the season, but not as big a part as last year now the novelty of Mary's return has worn off.

I think you are right with that. I think Mary may not have 13 episodes like she did last season. I could see her having much lower in the 8-10 range, especially if she is stuck in the AU until mid season. 

I am very curious if Wayward Sisters is picked up, if when both shows air at the same time if Misha Collins will do 23 episodes spread across two shows. I mean he can easily do both shows 11-12 on SPN and maybe 6-7 on WS. Maybe even Samantha Smith, assuming Mary isn't dead in season 13. I have this bad feeling that Jack could kill Mary at the end of S13.

[Diane]

http://comicbook.com/tv-shows/2017/08/10/supernatural-stars-reveal-new-details-about-their-scooby-doo-cro/

 

Supernatural Stars Reveal New Details About Their Scooby-Doo Crossover

by Cameron Bonomolo | August 10, 2017

Scooby Doo, where are you? Coming to the upcoming thirteenth season of the CW’s Supernatural, in an animated crossover special that will team brothers Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean Winchester (Jensen Ackles) with the talking Hanna-Barbera dog.

The idea of an animated episode was kicked around in the writer’s room as far back as season four, with co-show runner Andrew Dabb revealing it wasn’t until Jeremy Adams (the episode’s co-writer) made a Scooby Doo pitch that things started to click. With Supernatural and Scoob both being Warner Bros. properties, there would be no rights issues barricading a crossover — all that was left was for an excited creative team to produce the partially animated episode, which will make its way to The CW sometime in early 2018.

“Andrew [Dabb] knew some guys over at Warner Bros. Animation and they floated this idea. We took it to Warner Bros. and asked, ‘What do you think?’ and everybody got really excited about it. They guys have already recorded their parts and, I think, the Scooby Doo people have already recorded their parts. It’s one of our bigger swings,” executive producer Robert Singer told Hidden Remote. “I would say three-quarters of that episode is animation. I’ve seen the tests of Sam and Dean working with Scooby, it’s pretty fantastic. We’re really excited about it. I’m pretty confident people are going to like it. It’s a long process. We started working on this last January and we won’t get the final animation until this coming January. We’ve been talking it for years and we’ve finally able to pull it off.”

“When we did the voice over, you could feel the energy inside the recording booth,” Ackles told the Mary Sue, with (spoiler warning) Misha Collins, whose angel Castiel will be back in action as of the team up episode, adding that lending his voice to a Scooby Doo ‘toon was a “pinch me moment.”

“It'll be very Scooby-Doo-esque. Just a little slightly darker version of Scooby Doo, but I will say that when we went in and did the recording, it was Jared [Padalecki], myself, and Misha,” Ackles said of the episode during San Diego Comic Con. “We recorded, we put cameras and there were GoPros all over. All of that will be on special features, but we were like vibrating we were so excited about it. We were so thrilled, and the whole process of doing the dialogue, we were having a scene. It's ridiculously funny.”

Supernatural returns to The CW with its season 13 premiere on Thursday, October 12th at 8/7c.

[gonzosgirrl]

I don't follow Mark P on Twitter or other sm. Have there been any tweets or sightings of him filming yet? It seemed at the end of May, he was everywhere and there was so much talk of Lucifer but I haven't seen anything recently. All the talk is about Sam and Dean 'parenting' Jack and Cas/Jack bonding later on. I realize Luci is in the AU with Mary, but I know Sam Smith has been filming. Is there any chance (she asked hopefully) that maybe the lack of enthusiasm over the continued existence of Lucifer has been heard? I mean, I've read love and hate for all possible things S13 as far as Dean/Sam/Cas/Jack and the Wayward-pick-a-noun goes, but I feel like the disdain for Lucifer himself is almost universal.

[Jonesy]

28 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't follow Mark P on Twitter or other sm. Have there been any tweets or sightings of him filming yet? It seemed at the end of May, he was everywhere and there was so much talk of Lucifer but I haven't seen anything recently. All the talk is about Sam and Dean 'parenting' Jack and Cas/Jack bonding later on. I realize Luci is in the AU with Mary, but I know Sam Smith has been filming. Is there any chance (she asked hopefully) that maybe the lack of enthusiasm over the continued existence of Lucifer has been heard? I mean, I've read love and hate for all possible things S13 as far as Dean/Sam/Cas/Jack and the Wayward-pick-a-noun goes, but I feel like the disdain for Lucifer himself is almost universal.

We tend to think our pockets are universal--for example I like Lucifer as does my brother who is not in fandom.  I mean the fictional Lucifer!   So it's far from everyone. That said--I think Mark is still a regular and has been filming with Mary mostly for now. 

[catrox14]

34 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/mishacollins/status/895769816321150976

 

Misha welcoming Alexander to the SPNFamily in a way only Misha would hahahaa

This reply made me laugh.

ETA : That diagram is off because it wasn't really Crazy Casifer that was helping Jackifer. That was good Cas.

 

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I mean, I've read love and hate for all possible things S13 as far as Dean/Sam/Cas/Jack and the Wayward-pick-a-noun goes, but I feel like the disdain for Lucifer himself is almost universal.

Sadly, I don't think the disdain is universal. I see a lot of people on SM more than happy that Lucifer is back in Mark P's meatsuit and that he killed Castiel and they will be pissed if Castiel is resurrected or comes back at all.

Edited August 11, 2017 by catrox14

[gonzosgirrl]

52 minutes ago, Jakes said:

We tend to think our pockets are universal--for example I like Lucifer as does my brother who is not in fandom.  I mean the fictional Lucifer!   So it's far from everyone. That said--I think Mark is still a regular and has been filming with Mary mostly for now. 

Thus my use of the word "almost".  Of course I'm only going by my own microcosm of fandom, but I have a fair number of diverse fan friends and not one of them is eager to see more Lucifer. Not one. That disdain doesn't extend to Mark P  he is a fine actor - but to the character.

Edited August 11, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[Reganne]

3 hours ago, Jakes said:

We tend to think our pockets are universal--for example I like Lucifer as does my brother who is not in fandom.  I mean the fictional Lucifer!   So it's far from everyone. That said--I think Mark is still a regular and has been filming with Mary mostly for now. 

I agree.  I also still enjoy Lucifer.  I am interested to see what he does in the AU.  What with Michael being there as well as possibly other characters or angels that he has interacted with in our world or killed.   I am far more interested in the AU than anything to do with Jack TBH.  

[MysteryGuest]

10 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Absolutely not.  

I'd love more of a S1-S2 format.  That's what drew me in to the show in the first place.  At the same time, I'm not willing to completely diss the few spoilers we've gotten before I see how it plays out.

In fact, maybe I'm just crazy (okay, don't answer that!) but I'm still hoping we get something like this this year:

 

10 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Because I think that sounds interesting.  And I think, Dabb has alluded to something like this happening with the bunker.  So, I'll wait and see.

I hope you're right, because that would definitely be something to look forward to.  I just don't see how they fit it in with everything else they've got going on.  They already have a lot on their plate for this season...the nephilim question, Cas' death and resurrection, finding Mary, dealing with Lucifer, the AU and whatever that means to our world, and I believe at least 3 episodes dealing with our spin off characters.  Toss in a few random, MOTW episodes, and that's a pretty busy schedule.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I hope you're right, because that would definitely be something to look forward to.  I just don't see how they fit it in with everything else they've got going on.  They already have a lot on their plate for this season...the nephilim question, Cas' death and resurrection, finding Mary, dealing with Lucifer, the AU and whatever that means to our world, and I believe at least 3 episodes dealing with our spin off characters.  Toss in a few random, MOTW episodes, and that's a pretty busy schedule.

Granted, there's no guarantee they are going to do it, but if I recall the comment, Dabb said something like they were going to take what they learned from the BMoL.  Which, to me, sounds like using the bunker as more of an AMoL base.  I think if they did, it could fit in very easily even with everything else they've got going on that you mentioned.  I would think it would (or could anyway) be more of an ongoing storyline rather than finding Mary, which I expect to be resolved in two, maybe three eps.  It could also actually play into the set up for the spin-off.  But I'm just spit-ballin', so who knows?

[catrox14]

41 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Granted, there's no guarantee they are going to do it, but if I recall the comment, Dabb said something like they were going to take what they learned from the BMoL.  Which, to me, sounds like using the bunker as more of an AMoL base.  I think if they did, it could fit in very easily even with everything else they've got going on that you mentioned.  I would think it would (or could anyway) be more of an ongoing storyline rather than finding Mary, which I expect to be resolved in two, maybe three eps.  It could also actually play into the set up for the spin-off.  But I'm just spit-ballin', so who knows?

 

Heh. Given the bit J2 teased at a con when a fan asked them about sprucing up the bunker, and IMO Dabb's penchant for over and underselling everything, maybe this will be the flat screen TV and barcoloungers which Sam would have poached from the BMOLair before blowing it up. LOL

[SueB]

With a Jensen instagram from home on Thursday, I think it's a safe bet that Jodie has a more independent prominent role in this episode.   Undoubtedly trying to set her up as a solo protagonist.   I have great faith in Kim Rhodes.  I'm looking forward to seeing Jodie's story.  

[Wayward Son]

I've read that apparently episode 3 is apparently very J2 lite. Jared didn't film at all this week and Jensen was only there for 1.5 days or something. So I'd say your right about that @SueB. They're probably also looking to set up Patience as a character we can really root for.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

Just now, Wayward Son said:

I've read that apparently episode 3 is apparently very J2 lite. Jared didn't film at all this week and Jensen was only there for 1.5 days or something. 

I think it's really weird to make the 3rd episode J2 lite. I could live with it being Misha heavy but I don't have that impression given you know, Cas is dead.  It certainly breaks from the first 3 episodes being TFW centric.

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I think it's really weird to make the 3rd episode J2 lite. I could live with it being Misha heavy but I don't have that impression given you know, Cas is dead.  It certainly breaks from the first 3 episodes being TFW centric.

Maybe it's something to do with actor availability? As in Kim Rhodes and/or the actress playing Patience were only available during the dates they were filming episode 3? So that's why the Patience episode was placed there. 

 

My guess, in terms of the main cast, is the episode will be J2 lite, no Misha, no Mark Pellegrino and Jack is a maybe. I'd say the  stars of the episode will be Kim Rhodes and the actress playing Patience.

 

Im expecting episode 4 to be quite Misha heavy though. Although episode titles can be misleading so who knows lol

[catrox14]

Wait, Wait, Wait!. Adrian Holmes is  Missouri's son??  Is this what I am to understand? ZOMG!

Well my interest in this episode just escalate 100% LOL

LOVE HIM.

 

[catrox14]

YASS!!! He definitely IS in the episode.  I hope this means he'll have a recurring role and not just this episode. PLEASE???

 

There is another dude. I don't know who he is. And that's "Patience"

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

YASS!!! He definitely IS in the episode.  I hope this means he'll have a recurring role and not just this episode. PLEASE???

 

There is another dude. I don't know who he is. And that's "Patience"

I'd say he could have a recurring role on WS if it gets picked up! If they don't kill him off in ep 3 he could reappear for eps 9-10, but beyond that I doubt we will ever see him on the main show again. If it gets picked up he may appear on the spin off, and if it doesn't we will prob never hear of him or Patience again. The same way we never saw the Bloodlines lot again lol 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

I'd say he could have a recurring role on WS if it gets picked up! If they don't kill him off in ep 3 he could reappear for eps 9-10, but beyond that I doubt we will ever see him on the main show again. If it gets picked up he may appear on the spin off, and if it doesn't we will prob never hear of him or Patience again. The same way we never saw the Bloodlines lot again lol 

 I want him on screen with J2M frequently. He's SOOO handsome and a great talent. What a get IMO.  Sigh.

The difference between this and Bloodlines is that they are actually using the show history this time to introduce new characters with logical ties to characters in the mothership. They can bring those characters back to SPN even if WS doesn't go to series. I think SPN and WS  will have some characters floating between them IF it gets picked up for series. 

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

 I want him on screen with J2M frequently. He's SOOO handsome and a great talent. What a get IMO.  Sigh.

The difference between this and Bloodlines is that they are actually using the show history this time to introduce new characters with logical ties to characters in the mothership. They can bring those characters back to SPN even if WS doesn't go to series. I think SPN and WS  will have some characters floating between them IF it gets picked up for series. 

What characters do you think could potentially float between the two series? 

 

I could see him potentially becoming a regular on WS. However, I'm honestly expecting him and Missouri to be killed off in episode 10 allowing for Patience to become one of Jody's girl. I say episode 10 because I imagine the sudden loss of your family would be considered great pilot material. 

[nightwing877]

7 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

What characters do you think could potentially float between the two series? 

 

I could see him potentially becoming a regular on WS. However, I'm honestly expecting him and Missouri to be killed off in episode 10 allowing for Patience to become one of Jody's girl. I say episode 10 because I imagine the sudden loss of your family would be considered great pilot material. 

Yeah I am expecting her father and Missouri to die in episode 10. I hope it isn't episode 3, because I would like to see the boys interacting with Missouri before she may die. I just think they would want all the characters to have a bond due to loosing their families and how they all come together. 

I'm wondering if Donna will just serve a role like Cas and not appear in every episode. I just see her only being in a 11-13 episode count, While Jody and the girls appear in all episodes.

I could see Castiel floating between the two shows too, especially because he only appears in 11-13 eps of SPN each season. So he could be recurring for 5-6 episodes on WD too. 

[Wayward Son]

4 hours ago, nightwing877 said:

I'm wondering if Donna will just serve a role like Cas and not appear in every episode. I just see her only being in a 11-13 episode count, While Jody and the girls appear in all episodes.

I could see Castiel floating between the two shows too, especially because he only appears in 11-13 eps of SPN each season. So he could be recurring for 5-6 episodes on WD too. 

Ooh that's a good point about Donna! Assuming Patience is orphaned and goes to live with Jody she'll be the odd one out. Plus it seems to me as though Kim Rhodes is being presented as the lead adult female. 

 

Im not sure about Cas. I'd love it, but I'm not sure Misha would want the extra work. At SDCC he was asked about directing again and he stated he's opted not to due to the extra commitment involved and his lack of time for it due to his other personal projects and charity work.

[DittyDotDot]

7 hours ago, nightwing877 said:

Yeah I am expecting her father and Missouri to die in episode 10. I hope it isn't episode 3,

Thinking on it more, would they do the big deaths and character motivations for Wayward Sisters on Supernatural? I was really sure Missouri would bite it this season, but now I'm not so sure. If they're really taking a page from Arrow/The Flash's book and just introducing us to these characters a little, I don't expect the new show to actually start on Supernatural...does that even make sense?

20 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think it's really weird to make the 3rd episode J2 lite. I could live with it being Misha heavy but I don't have that impression given you know, Cas is dead.  It certainly breaks from the first 3 episodes being TFW centric.

I think it might be a mistake for them to make this episode so Sam- and Dean-lite. Fandom has proved time and time again they don't approve of this sort of thing and I worry fans will decide they won't show up for Wayward Sisters at all because of it. I really want Wayward Sisters to be successful, but I'm still not convinced fandom will show up for it. 

However, I'm kinda hoping it's a "Weekend at Jodi's," more than anything. That could actually make the episode work and not get fandom all in a tizy...maybe, perhaps, possibly... . 

17 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Wait, Wait, Wait!. Adrian Holmes is  Missouri's son??  Is this what I am to understand? ZOMG!

Seems they're not only taking a page from Arrow's book, but taking a couple actors too boot! ;)

Edited August 13, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Wayward Son]

57 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Thinking on it more, would they do the big deaths and character motivations for Wayward Sisters on Supernatural? I was really sure Missouri would bite it this season, but now I'm not so sure. If they're really taking a page from Arrow/The Flash's book and just introducing us to these characters a little, I don't expect the new show to actually start on Supernatural...does that even make sense?

I was thinking it might be more along the lines of The Vampire Diaries and the Originals. I didn't watch TO due to a dislike of Klaus, but as I understand it the Pilot for that show was basically an edited version of a TVD episode i.e. It's Pilot contained the most important scenes from that episode. The main changes made were that scenes were added so things came from a TO character perspective rather than a TVD cast members. So following that model the death of Missouri and her son would occur in both SN 12x10 and the Pilot for Wayward Sisters. 

 

Quote

to make this episode so Sam- and Dean-lite. Fandom has proved time and time again they don't approve of this sort of thing and I worry fans will decide they won't show up for Wayward Sisters at all because of it. I really want Wayward Sisters to be successful, but I'm still not convinced fandom will show up for it. 

However, I'm kinda hoping it's a "Weekend at Jodi's," more than anything. That could actually make the episode work and not get fandom all in a tizy...maybe, perhaps, possibly... . 

I agree that the episode's only chance of receiving fan approval is making sure it is centred heavily on Jody and how Patience relates to her. Fans have proven willing to accept  well written episodes, which centred on existing character who have "earned" them such as Weekend at Bobby's or The Man Who Would Be King.* However, if it is all about Patience, a character we've never seen before, it'll inevitably suffer the same fan backlash as the likes of Bitten and Bloodlines. 

 

* Of coursecth love for those two episodes isn't universal. If a fan dislikes Bobby they're likely to dislike Weekend at Bobby's, and if they dislike Castiel they're likely to dislike TMWWBK. However, many fans of both love them and they definitely didn't receive the near universal fan hatred given to Bitten and Bloodlines.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Wayward Son

[gonzosgirrl]

This is probably more unpopular opinion and bitternesss, but since it involves new characters and episode descriptions and some spec, I'll try it here. I just DGAF about the spin-off, and I resent so much focus on it in what is likely the waning episodes of the series. I wouldn't dislike the idea so much if I wasn't 100% certain that the Winchesters won't get the respect they deserve (I'll eat my  words if at least one of the ducklings doesn't save dumb Dean's ass before they ride off into the new series). Their (potential) screen time is already going to be spread thin with the AU (since the boys don't exist there). Having a lite episode so early gives my already shaky expectations for this this season a firm kick in the nads. And I understand the Js want more time off, but I have to say, I - resent is too strong a word, roll my eyes I guess - at that a little, too. If they are tired of it (perfectly reasonable, btw), then let it go, but if they are going to keep it going, then be all in. My opinion, of course.

Edited August 13, 2017 by gonzosgirrl