Spoilers With Speculation

[mertensia]

No, she's blaming the shippers who cross the line and start demanding that the show be written the way THEY want it to be.

Personally I think it's time for both Crowley and Castiel to go but I also realize that Jared and Jensen need downtime and these are the characters they have that can give them that.

[SueB]

What mertensia said... Just a few.  

My philosophy is ship all the ships but the show should do what it wants.  Sometimes it works great and receives much positive feedback. Sometimes it's mixed. Sometimes it's 'WTH was that?'   It will never satisfy the diverse fanbase 100% of the time. 

Edited September 17, 2016 by SueB

[Aeryn13]

But neither fangroup can hold the writers at gunpoint to make their demands. I know something got way out of line on twitter with shipping demands but frankly, the writers often use their twitter for ego-stroking and then complain when critique also trickles in. Boohoo. If they interact on that level, they have to take everything. Also, I realize some fans were too pushy and made things uncomfortable for actors at Cons but they are professionals, they can easily handle such things. What the writers did with the characters only made the fans more pushy and demanding at Cons at certain points.

I never expected Destiel to become any kind of canon but that response of running screaming "no gay" in the other direction in recent years is all on the show. Noone forced them to write this. They could have simply written a friendship between the characters and that would have been that. As demanding as shippers could be, they had no real power, the writers made themselves into whiny pushovers. 

[auntvi]

8 hours ago, mertensia said:

Personally I think it's time for both Crowley and Castiel to go but I also realize that Jared and Jensen need downtime and these are the characters they have that can give them that.

I wanted to see more of the red-eyed demon Crowley from the end of s. 10.  It may be too late to do anything about it, but Crowley should have sharp edges, give Mark a chance to chew the scenery more. Crowley should definitely not be cute & funny. IMHO

[MysteryGuest]

My only issue with ships of any kind is when the shippers lose all perspective and don't recognize that their ship exists in their imagination only.  Trying to force that ship on the writers or the actors is crossing a line, IMO.  

As for the queer baiting charge, I suppose the show could be considered guilty of that, but unfortunately, if you want to portray heterosexual men accurately, that's the sort of language, teasing, etc., you're going to get.  It goes on all the time, right or wrong, and it goes on with this cast in their interactions with each other off screen. I never saw it for anything other than that, because the writers clearly wrote Dean's character as straight.  There absolutely should be more gay characters on mainstream television, but straight characters should also be able to show affection, teasing etc., without it being considered queer baiting.  I guess it's a fine line.

Smokey, red-eyed Crowley was awesome and we should definitely get more of that.  Maybe he'll need to use some of that power in his fight with Lucifer this season.

[SueB]

Im conflicted about Red Eyed Crowley.  Made him much more threatening but I LOVE the snark.  

[bearcatfan]

11 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

As for the queer baiting charge, I suppose the show could be considered guilty of that, but unfortunately, if you want to portray heterosexual men accurately, that's the sort of language, teasing, etc., you're going to get.  It goes on all the time, right or wrong, and it goes on with this cast in their interactions with each other off screen. I never saw it for anything other than that, because the writers clearly wrote Dean's character as straight.  There absolutely should be more gay characters on mainstream television, but straight characters should also be able to show affection, teasing etc., without it being considered queer baiting.  I guess it's a fine line.

I wonder if people who believe the show is queer baiting have spent time around a group heterosexual men who are friends. My husband's softball team constantly teases each other like this. In fact, I've found that the more secure a man is in his sexuality and the sexuality of his friends, the more apt he is to tease in that manner. With brothers, it's usually worse! I imagine that the writers tease in the same way and wrote it in as they realize that this is how men actually act.

[goldy]

On 17.9.2016 at 9:53 AM, mertensia said:

Personally I think it's time for both Crowley and Castiel to go but I also realize that Jared and Jensen need downtime and these are the characters they have that can give them that.

I like Castiel and I think he was (and still is) a good addition to the show. He's not the reason I watch the show (Sam and Dean are) but he is an interesting character IMO. Plus, I think that Misha/Castiel has a lot of fans and it would be bad for the show if he'll leave.

Crowley on the other hand, I'm very bored with. I was never really invested in any storylines he was part of (unless it involved Sam and Dean) I don't care about him wanting to catch Lucifer, I don't care about his son coming back this season, and don't even get me started on his mother, Rowena, who is even more boring to me than Crowley is. Plus, I never liked the fact that Sam and Dean are so "friendly" with "the king of all rotten". So, I'll be more than happy to see him leave and for the show to bring another character as a regular.

[companionenvy]

Agreed, goldy. I love Mark Sheppard, but Crowley needed to go a while ago. I don't think Castiel has been particularly well used for some time now, but I still care about him and his arcs. I just wish the show would figure out a better way of integrating him, or make him recurring rather than a regular.

But Crowley isn't effective enough to be a great antagonist and too evil to be interesting. I don't care about his mommy issues, or his  crises of confidence. He is a bad, bad guy who continues to do unconscionable things. Unlike Spike on Buffy (who I suspect the writers have in mind in writing him), Crowley hasn't really changed - his behavior may fluctuate depending on the relative amount of power he has at any given moment, but the fact that we may have acquired access to his vulnerabilities doesn't amount to an arc, and he gets too much screen-time to exist without one.

The show seems to want us to see both Crowley and Rowena as somehow complex (freaking GOD had a soft spot for Rowena), but I'm not buying it. 

[MysteryGuest]

I still enjoy some scenes with Crowley, but they definitely need to find a way to make both him and Cas more relevant than they have been.  As for Rowena, I'm sort of surprised they've kept her around.  When she first came on the show, I absolutely hated her.  It thought her acting was horribly over-the-top and she made Crowley seem totally pathetic.  She was a bit better on her own, and by the end of the season, I didn't hate her, but I'm not sure I want her to be a regular.  I'd have preferred that they keep someone like Charlie around as a non-regular regular, rather than Rowena.  

[catrox14]

Misha and Mark  being regulars just means they are contractually bound to SPN as first obligations. Keeps them available. They don't have to be in every episode either.  If they returned Misha and Mark to recurring or guest stars they could lose them to another show.

[MysteryGuest]

The problem I have is that I really am over the whole angel/demon storyline.  For a show with the tagline of "saving people, hunting things", they certainly gave up on the monster storylines pretty quickly and focused all of their attention on the angels and demons.  Yes, there were MOW episodes, but they were always just stuck in the middle of some ongoing crisis in heaven or hell.  I truly want them to move away from all of that and focus again on the monsters.  With that in mind, it does make it difficult to keep Cas and Crowley around in any capacity other than wacky sidekick, which I don't really want.  I'd like for them to have interesting storylines, but not if it means more angels and demons.  It's a pickle.

[Partly]

The whole God/Amara ending is perfect for a reset, of sorts.  It would be easy to step away or at least temper the importantnce of angels and demons -- while leaving Crowley, Cas and Lucifer untouched, more or less.  It could allow for more earth/human based stories.  At least that's my hope because I love the MOTW stories, the ones that deal with small town America.

I understand the need to have more than two characters on the show because the Dean-and-Sam only show makes it much to hard on the actors.  Cas and Crowley are good expansions and I like the idea that they can function separately from the Boys, if only because they become real characters then and not just filler.

[goldy]

First Look: Supernatural Welcomes (Back) Mother Mary

http://www.tvinsider.com/article/97982/supernatural-season-12-first-look-mary-winchester-returns/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=TVGM

 

 

When The CW’s Supernatural returns for its 12th season on October 13, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean Winchester’s (Jensen Ackles) most improbable dream has come true. “It’s the return of their mother, Mary [Samantha Smith, seen here in Episode 2 with Padalecki, left, and Ackles], the woman whose death set into motion their journey to become hunters—killing monsters and saving people,” says executive producer Andrew Dabb.

“Mary was a hunter too, but she ran from that life. To find Sam and Dean embracing it is something she’s going to have to get used to.” Along with their adulthood. Sam was a newborn and Dean was 4 years old when Mary was killed by a demon. “There’s a lot of conflict to come, but at heart,” Dabb says, “they’re still very much a family.”

Supernatural, Season premiere, Thursday, October 13, 9/8c, The CW

[goldy]

Saw these on twitter:

 

---ETA---

 

There's also these:

 

Apparently there's a new S12 sneak peek on ITunes

Edited September 19, 2016 by goldy

[catrox14]

Like I'm all about spoilers but that spoils something I really didn't think they would spoil.  Lame.

That iTunes sneak peek is only available to those with a  season pass, unfortunately.

[goldy]

38 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That iTunes sneak peek is only available to those with a  season pass, unfortunately.

I'm sure it would be online eventually.

 

Some more of those lovely caps from twitter:

 

 

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, goldy said:

I'm sure it would be online eventually.

 

Last season I think or s10 they had an iTunes sneak peek that made it's way online and surprisingly, a large segment of fandom was pissed that it was out there which was weird given how we chomp at the bit for spoilers.  Maybe the anger was from the iTunes Season Pass users. I dunno.

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Last season I think or s10 they had an iTunes sneak peek that made it's way online and surprisingly, a large segment of fandom was pissed that it was out there which was weird given how we chomp at the bit for spoilers.  Maybe the anger was from the iTunes Season Pass users. I dunno.

On a similar note, was it last year, or the year before, they put up a kinda sneak peek/promo/producer's introduction that got taken down within a few hours? I can't remember if it was the year of the Deanmon or the year of the Darkness. I remember thinking they must have some intern who got their wires crossed or something.

It's funny this year, I'm fine with what little spoilers they've put out. Why am I not clamoring at the bit more like usual? And, why am I so optimistic this year too? Gah, I think I've been possessed by something...well, maybe not evil, but not me either! ;)

[catrox14]

Just now, DittyDotDot said:

It's funny this year, I'm fine with what little spoilers they've put out. Why am I not clamoring at the bit more like usual? And, why am I so optimistic this year too? Gah, I think I've been possessed by something...well, maybe not evil, but not me either! ;)

Who are you and what have you done with @DittyDotDot???

[goldy]

Here's a like to about two hundred caps from the S12 sneak peek on ITunes:

http://www.homeofthenutty.com/supernatural/screencaps/thumbnails.php?album=261&page=1

[MysteryGuest]

I think I'm going to try to limit some of my exposure to all of these sneak peeks.  I don't want to ruin the premiere for myself.  During the season it's fun to speculate, but for now, they're just giving too much away, IMO.

[SueB]

It's funny, I didn't realize it was released today. I just happened to watch it because I thought I hadn't noticed before.  Of COURSE I get the freakin' season pass.  How could I obsess over the details of the show and take screencaps without it??

Anyway, it's good.  When Dean sees his Mom make a move he says 'crap'.... like in "wow, he wasn't expecting that she was that good'.  And although I saw it on iTunes, it was on tumblr about an hour ago.

[goldy]

And its online:

 

[enaiowen]

The sneak peek is here.  It is 6 minutes long and is quite spoilery, although there is also quite a bit of old footage mixed in there too.  Dabb, Singer and Berens all contribute commentary.  Berens is listed as Supervising Producer, which I found interesting as he had quite a bit to say.  

 

Season 12 sneak peek

 

And we must has been posting at the same time.  :-)

Edited September 20, 2016 by enaiowen

[catrox14]

So Mary is just all magically a badass hunter after being dead for 30 years. Thanks, Amara. 

Dean who? Seriously, is Dean going to do anything besides deal with Mary and save Sam?

Also, why do Singer and Dabb think the MoL are hunters??? They are not hunters. They don't claim to be hunters. They are preceptors and chroniclers of all that man does not understand. And they have literally done nothing to help with the problems created by said things man does not understand.  MoL hate hunters and have no respect of them. They call them apes. I don't get it. 

[DittyDotDot]

It's mostly repeating of stuff that's already been doled out over the last few weeks. Not too spoilery if you've been keeping up with this thread...I don't think anyway. Maybe some of the stuff with Cass is a bit new, but I think it was to be expected based on the information we have been given. But almost everything with Mary I felt like I had either seen or read over the last couple weeks.

Still on-board at this juncture! ;)

31 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Also, why do Singer and Dabb think the MoL are hunters??? They are not hunters. They don't claim to be hunters. They are preceptors and chroniclers of all that man does not understand. And they have literally done nothing to help with the problems created by said things man does not understand.  MoL hate hunters and have no respect of them. They call them apes. I don't get it. 

I don't think they called them hunters, did they? They said the British MoL do things differently than American hunters, I don't think they meant they were hunters, though.

[MysteryGuest]

Ok, obviously I have zero willpower, so I went ahead and watched the sneak peek.  Hmmm...I hope some of it was misleading because it didn't exactly thrill me.  I am absolutely, totally and completely over Lucifer.  I just want him gone.  The Rick Springfield, LA, rock concert episode doesn't interest me at all.  I was never a Springfield fan girl, so I don't get that appeal, honestly.  And if he's really going to be one of the main focuses this season, that's really disappointing to me.

I'm not surprised they're showing Mary as a bad ass hunter right out of the gate.  Is it realistic?  No, not really, but they have to establish that she brings some credentials of her own into the mix.  Not only has she been dead for 30 years, but she was pretty much retired from hunting after she got married.  Of course, they could always alter history a bit to show that she still hunted when her boys were young.  I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one.

It might be interesting to have Rowena as an ally to the boys for a change, so that was ok.  I'll be happy to see Cas get some of his original mojo back and not be quite so pathetic.  The same goes for Crowley...he needs to be much edgier than he has been.

It looks like they're going to have a number of episodes this year that focus on supporting cast rather than Sam and Dean.  That doesn't make me happy, but I guess I have to accept the fact that the longer the show goes on, the more downtime they're going to get.  I enjoy Cas, Crowley, Jody, etc., but I prefer them interacting with Sam and Dean.  

I think we called it when we said they were going to portray the MOL Euro Division as the stereotypical stuffy Brits vs. the "cowboy" American hunters.  I still don't get the point of the torturing of Sam, but since it appears Dean and Mary find him in episode 2, we won't have long to wait to find out.

Edited September 20, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think they called them hunters, did they? They said the British MoL do things differently than American hunters, I don't think they meant they were hunters, though.

They keep drawing a parallel to them without making a clear distinction that MoL are NOT hunters and do not do what hunters do. In that they are implying MoL do what hunters do as in help humanity. I need to see how MoL have saved lives like hunters do. It annoys me.

Edited September 20, 2016 by catrox14

[goldy]

13 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm not surprised they're showing Mary as a bad ass hunter right out of the gate.  Is it realistic?  No, not really, but they have to establish that she brings some credentials of her own into the mix.  Not only has she been dead for 30 years, but she was pretty much retired from hunting after she got married.  Of course, they could always alter history a bit to show that she still hunted when her boys were young.  I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one.

In this interview with Andrew Dabb, he said that they are going to explore what Mary has been doing that we haven't seen.

"The story always been that once Mary settled down and married John, she stopped hunting, but we're gonna found out maybe that's not the whole story".

[DittyDotDot]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

They keep drawing a parallel to them without making a clear distinction that MoL are NOT hunters and do not do what hunters do. In that they are implying MoL do what hunters do as in help humanity. I need to see how MoL have saved lives like hunters do. It annoys me.

I'm sorry, I didn't get the impression they were saying the MoL are doing what hunters do. I thought the whole point was they don't do as hunters do and that's what the conflict will be.

That's not to say they're not annoying! ;)

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, goldy said:

The story always been that once Mary settled down and married John, she stopped hunting, but we're gonna found out maybe that's not the whole story".

This goes directly against what she told Dean TWICE about wanting out of the life.  I'm not feeling great about that. Mary can be complicated without making her even more of a liar.

I wouldn't put it past them to have Mary making deals to try and get out of her deal with Azazel. Or that maybe she's blackmailed into hunting by someone.  If she was still hunting in some way whilst married to John and before Sam was born why were her uber-hunter skills not present when Azazel showed up in her nursery?

Edited September 20, 2016 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

9 minutes ago, goldy said:

In this interview with Andrew Dabb, he said that they are going to explore what Mary has been doing that we haven't seen.

"The story always been that once Mary settled down and married John, she stopped hunting, but we're gonna found out maybe that's not the whole story".

That's what I was thinking about when I watched it. Maybe Mary wasn't all that settled in reality and was keeping herself sharp knowing that some day Yellow Eyes was going to return?  I'm not sure yet if it totally lines up--we'll have to wait and see--but wanting out of the life and getting out of the life are two very different things.

Edited September 20, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

And another thing.  Why wouldn't John have learned that Mary was a hunter who was still hunting when they were married when he was learning to hunt? Surely Mary Campbell or Mary Winchester - uber female hunter would have a known reputation in the hunter community? And not one hunter mentioned this to John or Dean Fucking Winchester, the two stated best hunters in the world at the beginning of the series?

Continuity schmontinuity

[MysteryGuest]

I think it will be much the same as when they decided that Chuck was God.  The early episodes with Chuck didn't indicate that at all, and in fact showed just the opposite.  But that didn't stop them.  I think in the pilot when we see Mary running into Sam's room, she's just a mother worried about her son.  Fast forward a few years, and now she has a history as a hunter that wasn't exactly portrayed in that scene.  They're not going to let that stop them from giving her whatever backstory they want.

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

And another thing.  Why wouldn't John have learned that Mary was a hunter who was still hunting when they were married when he was learning to hunt? Surely Mary Campbell or Mary Winchester - uber female hunter would have a known reputation in the hunter community? And not one hunter mentioned this to John or Dean Fucking Winchester, the two stated best hunters in the world at the beginning of the series?

Continuity schmontinuity

I don't know if it really doesn't line up? In The Song Remains The Same, Mary went after Anna and had some mad fighting skills. That would've been what, about five years after she made the deal? And, in the Pilot she noticed the lights were flickering. I'm just not sure yet it won't make sense. I have to wait and see, I guess?

It could just be that she wasn't so much actively hunting as much as keeping her fighting skills sharp with workouts and such while John was at work? It all depends on how far they're pushing this. If they come right out and say Mary was actively hunting, I might have a problem with it, but if it's just she was still studying lore and keeping in shape, that seems reasonable with what we've seen of Mary in the past. I dunno.

[goldy]

15 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Surely Mary Campbell or Mary Winchester - uber female hunter would have a known reputation in the hunter community? And not one hunter mentioned this to John or Dean Fucking Winchester, the two stated best hunters in the world at the beginning of the series?

Continuity schmontinuity

Didn't they say in one of the earlier seasons that after Mary died all of her close friends and some of her other family were killed too. I think Ruby (the first Ruby, played by Katie Cassidy) said it to Sam in either S2 or S3. Maybe her hunter friends were killed too.

[catrox14]

13 minutes ago, goldy said:

Didn't they say in one of the earlier seasons that after Mary died all of her close friends and some of her other family were killed too. I think Ruby (the first Ruby, played by Katie Cassidy) said it to Sam in either S2 or S3. Maybe her hunter friends were killed too.

I remember. I'm not talking about hunter friends. Hunters have a network, colleagues.. They know about each other without being friends. At first blush it sounds like the same BS in Bloodlines that not ONE hunter knew about the 5 monster families that ruled Chicago, which was Dabb's script.  It just makes no sense to me that no hunter that John would have come into contact with didn't know of Mary Campbell. And even bying that John who was kind of reclusive didn't know, but Dean surely would have heard something at some point. Unless Mary was super special and the whole hunter network was sworn to secrecy, which would be absurd.  How would Bobby not have heard about Mary being a hunter given ALL the knowledge he had and all the people he knows?  God forbid, Bobby did know but never said anything to John or the boys. 

I can buy her keeping her skills sharp but nothing will explain her complete inaction to sense that lights flickering in her house was a bad thing.  Sorry. Just nope. I can't buy that.

Edited September 20, 2016 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Hunters have a network, colleagues.. They know about each other without being friends. At first blush it sounds like the same BS in Bloodlines that not ONE hunter knew about the 5 monster families that ruled Chicago, which was Dabb's script.  It just makes no sense to me that no hunter that John would have come into contact with didn't know of Mary Campbell. And even bying that John who was kind of reclusive didn't know, but Dean surely would have heard something at some point. Unless Mary was super special and the whole hunter network was sworn to secrecy, which would be absurd.  How would Bobby not have heard about Mary being a hunter given ALL the knowledge he had and all the people he knows?  God forbid, Bobby did know but never said anything to John or the boys.

I don't know yet, but the Campbells seemed like they mostly kept to themselves. Yellow Eyes didn't even know about her until she rushed into that house and showed herself to him. None of the Campbell cousins knew about Dean and Sam nor did Dean or Sam know about them. I was pretty annoyed about that back in S6, but they did set a precedence there.

I can buy Bobby didn't know about her simply because Bobby didn't become a hunter long before John did. Which would mean that Mary hadn't actively hunted for about 10 years.

However, it could be that John did learn that Mary was a hunter but just never divulged that fact to Sam and Dean? He didn't share a whole helluva lot of other relevant information he apparently knew; it does seem as thought that would be in-character for John. Perhaps John even learned about the deal, eventually and just didn't tell Sam and Dean because he wanted them to remember her as innocent and not blame her for what came of their family in the end?

Edited September 20, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

However, it could be that John did learn that Mary was a hunter but just never divulged that fact to Sam and Dean? He didn't share a whole helluva lot of other relevant information he apparently knew; it does seem as thought that would be in-character for John. Perhaps John even learned about the deal, eventually and just didn't tell Sam and Dean because he wanted them to remember her as innocent and not blame her for what came of their family in the end?

Oh that would infuriate me.  That would make John EVEN worse! I don't think they would do that.

[DittyDotDot]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh that would infuriate me.  That would make John EVEN worse! I don't think they would do that.

Does it though? I mean, isn't it kinder to let them remember their mother as an innocent than to burden them with the knowledge she unwittingly started all this for them? I don't know if the show is going there, but it doesn't change too much for me. John was a complicated and conflicting character. He made a lot of questionable decisions and rash decisions that I think he regretted later. If he learned this information when the boys were young it makes sense he wouldn't say anything to little boys. And if he learned it when they were old enough to know, they had already spent their childhood mourning her, why dump something on them that would contradict their "memories" of her at that point.

I kinda think it's way crappier he didn't tell them what he knew about Sam, myself. Mary was dead and there's nothing they could do to change that, but what was ahead for Sam wasn't yet set in stone.

Edited September 20, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[mertensia]

Why would the hunting community know t h at Mary Campbell was also Mary Winchester? Even if anyone did know, there are beings called angels. Uriel wouldn't hesitate to kill or erase memories if he thought that someone knowing Mary had been a Campbell would jeopardize the Apocalypse.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

learned it when they were old enough to know, they had already spent their childhood mourning her, why dump something on them that would contradict their "memories" of her at that point.

Dean ended up learning about her anyway. Once the boys were in their 20s they were old enough to know. I don't think it would have necessarily changed how the boys viewed her in their 20s. Dean didn't resent her. It's possible that knowledge helped Sam to understand more about what happened. He may have been hurt but it also would have made Mary's apology to him more meaningful too. 

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, mertensia said:

Why would the hunting community know t h at Mary Campbell was also Mary Winchester? Even if anyone did know, there are beings called angels. Uriel wouldn't hesitate to kill or erase memories if he thought that someone knowing Mary had been a Campbell would jeopardize the Apocalypse

Why wouldn't they? I'm not being a smartass.  Hunters are smart. They make connections.

[DittyDotDot]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Dean ended up learning about her anyway. Once the boys were in their 20s they were old enough to know. I don't think it would have necessarily changed how the boys viewed her in their 20s. Dean didn't resent her. It's possible that knowledge helped Sam to understand more about what happened. He may have been hurt but it also would have made Mary's apology to him more meaningful too. 

I don't know, I think if John did know and didn't tell them he'd be more likely to think they didn't need to know at this point. People keep secrets for all sorts of reasons, but I can see John thinking he was protecting Mary's memory and the boys at the same time. Mileage obviously varies.

20 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Why wouldn't they? I'm not being a smartass.  Hunters are smart. They make connections.

But why would they connect Mary Campbell to Mary Winchester when Mary Campbell and her whole family disappeared 10 years before Mary Winchester died? Other hunters may not have even known that John's wife was named Mary or that she was torched on the ceiling? I mean, it's not like John was a sharer. I think you'd have to be looking into Mary Winchester for some reason to be able to make that connection, myself.

Edited September 20, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[ahrtee]

38 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I remember. I'm not talking about hunter friends. Hunters have a network, colleagues.. They know about each other without being friends.

26 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't know yet, but the Campbells seemed like they mostly kept to themselves. Yellow Eyes didn't even know about her until she rushed into that house and showed herself to him. None of the Campbell cousins knew about Dean and Sam nor did Dean or Sam know about them. I was pretty annoyed about that back in S6, but they did set a precedence there.

I can buy Bobby didn't know about her simply because Bobby didn't become a hunter long before John did. Which would mean that Mary hadn't actively hunted for about 10 years.

 

I agree with Dittydotdot that the Campbells kept entirely to themselves and didn't bother with any other hunters/weren't involved in any "hunter network".  Clues:

1. In In The Beginning, when Dean went to Daniel Elkins for the Colt, Samuel had never heard of Elkins (and thought the Colt was a "bedtime story he used to tell Mary", and when Dean went to Elkins, he said "there's a family of hunters in Kansas, the Campbells."  Elkins shrugged and said "never heard of them."  If Elkins really had the Colt in his family since picking it up off the street in 1861 Wyoming, I'd guess his family had been hunting for a long, long time; but they didn't know of the Campbell family who'd been around since the Mayflower (per Samuel).

2.  If, as Samuel said, there were Campbells chopping heads off vamps on the Mayflower, how come *NONE* of the hunters had ever heard of all the cures (and lore) Samuel had squirreled away (including the vamp cure, which Sam and Dean went on to use a few more times.)  No one had ever hinted that it was even possible to cure a vampire till Samuel mentioned it, very casually.  That seems to me to mean that the Campbells didn't share any information with other hunters, and I'm guessing it's because they never mingled with them.  Samuel did say "I don't trust other hunters" when he first met Dean.  

3.  When resurrected Samuel gathered his new crew, he apparently hunted down whatever far-distant family members he could find, rather than looking for new hunters or old hunter families he might have known.  I think he could have tapped into the hunter network to find some more experienced members if he'd had knowledge of it/if he wanted to.

I'm more curious to see if Mary remembers "Dean Van Halen" from In the Beginning.  We know she had her memory wiped in Song Remains the Same but I thought that was just to wipe out the memory of angels/her sons.  If everything was gone, she wouldn't have recognized Azazel when he showed up in Sam's nursery.    

I believe that John honestly had no knowledge of monsters or hunters till he "went to Missouri and learned the truth."  But that hasn't stopped the writers/producers from rewriting history, so....

[Goldmoon]

Before the end of the atrocious season eleven, I came in here to tv tropes, and to the forums, and to the spoilers with joy, because I love Dean and still liked reading about it even if S11 was the worst season ever.  I have barely checked in all summer because the current spoilers depress me so much.  I wish I could stop watching but I love Dean too much.  I will buy S11 because of "Baby" and the Bobby and Rufus ep, but S12 sounds like shit piled on garbage pile on toxic waste.  TPTB need to put the fans out of our misery. 

[mertensia]

36 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Why wouldn't they? I'm not being a smartass.  Hunters are smart. They make connections.

What connections? Mary is hardly a unique name. The internet was not around.

[companionenvy]

I'm really excited about the spoilers. I think Mary coming back has the potential to actually take the show in some new emotional directions rather than repeating the same beats, and I love the idea of Cas returning to his original bad-ass angel roots. 

I've said before that I'm not thrilled with Mary being a super-hunter, as it doesn't gel with what we know of her past. I want her to be competent, but I don't want her to outshine Sam and Dean, which simply doesn't make sense given their respective experience levels. 

I don't, however, have any issue with finding out that Mary hunted AT TIMES after marrying John. If she was moonlighting as a super-hunter, that would be damaging to what we know of her character, but if she sometimes responded to threats in the area, frankly, that would only be natural for someone with a hunting background. If she caught wind of a haunting in her neighborhood, and knew that she was the only one around who knew how to stop it, it would be pretty selfish of her not to try and help. Heck, given the family's destiny, I wouldn't be surprised if she had had to fend off the occasional threat to her, John and the boys, specifically, over the years. 

There's really no good way to reconcile Mary's hunting background with her behavior in the Pilot, but I'm OK with chalking that up to a retcon that became necessary as the show's mythology developed and moving on. 

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

There's really no good way to reconcile Mary's hunting background with her behavior in the Pilot, but I'm OK with chalking that up to a retcon that became necessary as the show's mythology developed and moving on. 

 I can eventually swallow other retcons even if I bitch about them till the cows come home but this one is feels too much.  It's changing the entire basis of the show.  This story was about how this damaged man raised his sons and coped without their wife and mother and ended up in a life he never planned for nor understood.  Mary's death shaped Dean's trauma as a child. Remember when we learned Dean didn't talk for a long time after Mary died?  Mary's death shaped why he became a quasi-parent to Sam in addition to older brother. It shaped why John lost it after Mary died and why he went sideways. 

Whilst I agree it opens story opportunities, I'm having a lot of problems with accepting that fundamental shift regardless of what opportunities it provides.  I mean it would almost be like saying that the boys aren't brothers, it's that ingrained for me.  YMMV