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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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OrigamiNightmare

OrigamiNightmare

On 3/19/2018 at 2:44 PM, catrox14 said:

It could be Michael. It could be Death maybe? If Dean dies again...like I suspect.  What if Dean plays Gabriel??  That would be quite a twist.

Funny enough, Dean being Michael would be shocking and yet not but Dean being Death would be a huge shock because that means Dean dies again, and stays dead...I'm putting that as my dark horse candidate.

It would be funny though if Dean became Castiel for a hot minute. 

I really, really hope Jensen gets to play Michael! I've always really wanted to see how he would portray the character ... But if Dean became death wouldn't he have to kill Billy?

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

1 hour ago, Diane said:

Maybe this is what each of the main three characters will be contemplating as we wind down.

This quote fits Dean to a T in that last scene in A Most Holy Man, IMO.

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SueB

SueB

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On Dean getting a gaming table.....From "Clip Show":

Quote

Castiel: I like this bunker. It's orderly.

Sam: Oh, give us a few months. Dean wants to get a ping-pong table.

Castiel: I've heard of that. It's a game, right?

I'm glad it's a fuse-ball table.  Reminds me of Dean and Crowley's summer of love. 

 

On Dabb's quote.  It could go many ways.  I think it applies to Dean but it could also apply to Sam. 

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Jonesy

Jonesy

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

Maybe this is what each of the main three characters will be contemplating as we wind down.

This quote fits Dean to a T in that last scene in A Most Holy Man, IMO.

Hmmmm...does sound like it applies to Dean, sam and Cas.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
14 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Hmmmm...does sound like it applies to Dean, Sam and Cas.

.

We know that Sam gets a beatdown before the finale and something happens with Gabriel, too; so maybe Cas' own "whatever it takes" will take place before the finale, too and then the finale will involve Dean and his new persona with whatever's happened to Sam and Cas having galvanized Dean into his own "Whatever it takes..."

Edited by Myrelle
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Jonesy

Jonesy

JUST SAW THIS--EW says that Cas bonds with and learns some things from a couple characters in Scoobynatural.  And they heavily imply that those 2 characters are Scooby and Shaggy.  And from the pics we have, we know Cas pairs off with those 2.  That sounds absolutely fantastic to me!

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

39 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm surprised they don't have Dean bonding with Scooby, since he's, you know, been a talking dog. Heh.

That would require the writers to remember Dean's history. 

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/review-supernaturals-scoobynatural-is-a-must-watch/173911/

Quote

Will Scooby Doo mesh well with a world where characters lose their heads — literally? Seeing that mixture and those differences is part of the fun. And I’m happy to say, minus a Dean moment at the end of the episode, I didn’t feel dumb while watching it. Again, it was just plain fun, and there’s a lot of commentary on the things that a lot of us think when watching the show (a.k.a., Fred is a tool.)

I have to admit my excitement for this ep is dropping rapidly.

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

JUST SAW THIS--EW says that Cas bonds with and learns some things from a couple characters in Scoobynatural.  And they heavily imply that those 2 characters are Scooby and Shaggy.  And from the pics we have, we know Cas pairs off with those 2.  That sounds absolutely fantastic to me!

I hope this isn’t going to be one of those “lesson episodes” for Cas. He starts off all snooty “I led armies and now I’m stuck with a philstine and a talking dog” only for him to actually need to learn loads from them. I’d have rather he just learnt whatever he learns from them and doesn’t need to be taken down from on high. 

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Bobcatkitten

Bobcatkitten

9 minutes ago, Jakes said:

From what I see Dean gets the best parts of this episode--the Scooby gang is seen from his perspective and from a place of joy from Dean.

That's a good way to look at it. Plus the Dean-cave scene alone is worth it. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

17 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Will Scooby Doo mesh well with a world where characters lose their heads — literally? Seeing that mixture and those differences is part of the fun. And I’m happy to say, minus a Dean moment at the end of the episode, I didn’t feel dumb while watching it. Again, it was just plain fun, and there’s a lot of commentary on the things that a lot of us think when watching the show (a.k.a., Fred is a tool.)

I'm trying to figure out what that even means. The rest of the article seems to enjoy seeing Dean enjoying himself (and he agrees Fred is a tool, lol), so I don't really understand what Dean moment would make him feel dumb watching it.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

10 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I hope this isn’t going to be one of those “lesson episodes” for Cas. He starts off all snooty “I led armies and now I’m stuck with a philstine and a talking dog” only for him to actually need to learn loads from them. I’d have rather he just learnt whatever he learns from them and doesn’t need to be taken down from on high. 

Meh, even there is a tiny lesson would not be a bother at all for me.  Doubt it's going any kind of big comeuppance at all.

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catrox14

catrox14

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm surprised they don't have Dean bonding with Scooby, since he's, you know, been a talking dog. Heh.

This reminds me. Did Cas ever know that Dean was a dog?

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

I'm trying to figure out what that even means. The rest of the article seems to enjoy seeing Dean enjoying himself (and he agrees Fred is a tool, lol), so I don't really understand what Dean moment would make him feel dumb watching it.

It seems to relate to the differences between Scooby Doo and SPN. Maybe it has to do with how and why Dean is wearing that ascot at the end?

I do hope he does more than provide comedy relief and goofy slapstick and of course chasing after an uninterested Daphne. Weirdly, Fred seemed totally into the idea of a threesome in that one clip. I mean he was all "yay" the same way Velma was about her thinly veiled proposition to molest Sam in the basement. Shaggy and Scooby seems like they would be up for whatever with whomever.  

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This reminds me. Did Cas ever know that Dean was a dog?

I don’t believe it was ever mentioned on screen? Didn’t that episode take place while Cas was homeless? 

14 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

It seems to relate to the differences between Scooby Doo and SPN. Maybe it has to do with how and why Dean is wearing that ascot at the end?

I do hope he does more than provide comedy relief and goofy slapstick and of course chasing after an uninterested Daphne. Weirdly, Fred seemed totally into the idea of a threesome in that one clip. I mean he was all "yay" the same way Velma was about her thinly veiled proposition to molest Sam in the basement. Shaggy and Scooby seems like they would be up for whatever with whomever.  

I don’t care who it is, or how much I generally like or dislike a character, but Cas, Sam or Dean having sex with a dog, even a cartoon one, is too gross lol 

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

(edited)
7 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

It`s linked one page back.

Velma came across quite Becky-like. Couldn`t stand Becky.

Thanks. I think I’ve seen the clip you’re talking about although I can’t femember anything about a threesome. I must rewatch :)

 

ETA: I rewatched and I interpreted it more as Fred making sure Dean wasn’t alone with Daphne due to his (I’m assuming) rivalry with Dean for her affections. Although the idea of a threesome amuses me haha

Edited by Wayward Son
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I thought Daphne looked dubious but Fred enthusiastically threw his arms around both. If it had been about jealousy, I think they would have framed it with one guy on each side of Daphne, eyeing each other. This was like "yay, threesome". Now I`m sure it`s just supposed to be that Fred is oblivious and is just gung ho about the mystery hunt but the subtext was amusing.  

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catrox14

catrox14

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe it's Negan in the background, lol.

Or Lucille LOL

23 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I thought Daphne looked dubious but Fred enthusiastically threw his arms around both. If it had been about jealousy, I think they would have framed it with one guy on each side of Daphne, eyeing each other. This was like "yay, threesome". Now I`m sure it`s just supposed to be that Fred is oblivious and is just gung ho about the mystery hunt but the subtext was amusing.  

I'm with you on this reading. I thought it was definitely Fred being YAY let's all be together.  Maybe Dean ends up with Fred's ascot anyway. LOL

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SueB

SueB

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3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm trying to figure out what that even means. The rest of the article seems to enjoy seeing Dean enjoying himself (and he agrees Fred is a tool, lol), so I don't really understand what Dean moment would make him feel dumb watching it.

Think: "I could really go for some pea soup." bad dialog and you're there. It's one line, one moment. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

2 hours ago, SueB said:

Think: "I could really go for some pea soup." bad dialog and you're there. It's one line, one moment. 

I know what it was now, and Dean (and Jensen) were just having too much fun to get bent about it. He's adorable.

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SueB

SueB

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50 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I know what it was now, and Dean (and Jensen) were just having too much fun to get bent about it. He's adorable.

And the guys looking at him like he's lost his mind makes it better IMO.  I loved the black screen "and red is my color!"

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)

This is based on the spoiler that Jensen has a new role at the end (?) of this season, but otherwise it's pure, unadulterated speculation. I got a wild hair about it this morning though, and it won't go away until I share it, so...  We know it's someone we've seen before, but not for a while, but we also know that it's something/someone Jensen has never played before, so what if it's... Dean?! I know, I know, but hear me out. What if it's AU "Dean". We know John existed and that he died  and that Mary continued to be a hunter and was killed by Azazel*. But what if AU!Mary was already pregnant when John died, and decided to give up the child (since she was a hunter, and clearly capable of it) rather than have him raised in the life. So what if he's, say, Dean Smith - only, he's still John and Mary's spawn, so he got into the hunting life anyway, got into the war. Without our Dean's history, he would be a completely different person. Maybe became Endverse!Dean, or even MoC!Dean, but without the tie/lure/love of his family/brother to influence him, maybe even became Demon!Dean. Jensen was a little coy in the one interview when asked if the role involved contact lenses. Just things that make me say hmmmmm.

*ETA: Looking back at the transcript, Bobby said John's been dead forty years, and Mary was killed by Azazel '10 years ago' - so maybe Azazel killed Mary when she wouldn't give up details about her child? Hmmmm.

Eh, at the least it'd make a decent fanfic.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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catrox14

catrox14

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

ETA: Looking back at the transcript, Bobby said John's been dead forty years, and Mary was killed by Azazel '10 years ago' - so maybe Azazel killed Mary when she wouldn't give up details about her child? Hmmmm.

This was my spec at the end of last season as to how we could get an AU Dean. I would be so damn happy for that.

Maybe it's actually Future!Dean in the Future!Dean incarnation with thigh holsters and a different name? 

Just now, scribe95 said:

That would be another version of Dean though. I thought it was a whole different character/person.

Not really.  Just like AU Michael is not our Michael.  AU Kevin Tran isn't our Kevin Tran.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
17 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

That would be another version of Dean though. I thought it was a whole different character/person.

But he would be a different character. A Dean raised without the Winchester influence. Without the name Dean Winchester. Isn't that kind of the whole deal with S13 and Jack - nature vs nurture. It would be a character who looks like Dean Winchester, but with an entirely different personality, especially if he were influenced by the MoC and/or became a Knight of Hell (who could possibly/presumably kill even an Archangel?)

Is it just coincidence that AUBobby said John died forty years ago, and Dean will be turning forty soon?

I know if I say something happened 20 or 30 or 40 years ago, I don't necessarily mean exactly 20 or 30 or 40.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I hope that`s not the case, I want another character, preferably a supernatural one. Being coy about contact lenses was IMO a little callback to demon!Dean but even then, most angels and demons wear human visages most of the time. Even AU!Michael doesn`t sport the glowing blue eyes of angelyore.

Furthermore if there were an AU!Dean, then that means Castiel really was only talking to Sam when he said "this is a world you didn`t save". Because Sam not being born obviously makes all the difference whereas Dean? Eh, who cares. Gives me hate-backs to 5.22.    

At this point our universe Michael is a good bet. Otherwise I`m blanking on "character we haven`t seen for many years". Sure, Azazel but he can`t compete powerwise with the likes of AU!Michael or Lucifer or Jack. Jensen said Dean is "stepping up" in a big way, meaning he feels the need to do this as a way to help in the fight.  

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)
38 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But he would be a different character. A Dean raised without the Winchester influence. Without the name Dean Winchester. Isn't that kind of the whole deal with S13 and Jack - nature vs nurture. It would be a character who looks like Dean Winchester, but with an entirely different personality, especially if he were influenced by the MoC and/or became a Knight of Hell (who could possibly/presumably kill even an Archangel?)

Is it just coincidence that AUBobby said John died forty years ago, and Dean will be turning forty soon?

I know if I say something happened 20 or 30 or 40 years ago, I don't necessarily mean exactly 20 or 30 or 40.

 

For me it wouldn't be another character, just another version of Dean. 

As for Nougat, I don't see any kind of nature vs nurture debate.  Just a one note character who doesn't have an evil bone in his body.  I don't think Sam and Dean really had any influence on him.  I think he would have been the same character regardless.  Dabb isn't good with nuance.

Plus, as @Aeryn13 said if Dean exists in the AU world it sends a message that Dean isn't important in our world and that its Sam and only Sam that made the difference. 

Edited by ILoveReading
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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

For me it wouldn't be another character, just another version of Dean. 

Plus, as @Aeryn13 said if Dean exists in the AU world it sends a message that Dean isn't important in our world and that its Sam and only Sam that made the difference. 

I disagree. A world without Dean and Sam Winchester happens this way. This would still be a world without Dean for all intents and purposes. Whether you buy into the way things went down in season 5 or not, it was Dean and Sam together. So in my opinion having an alternate universe Dean exist but not be Dean Winchester still matters. Maybe even more depending on how he turned out.

If he wasn't drawn into the world of Supernatural until after shit went down his fault that it happened. But if who or what he became in the alternate universe is able to step up and help them now, then it's all good. Jmo and all that.

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catrox14

catrox14

36 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 

If he wasn't drawn into the world of Supernatural until after shit went down his fault that it happened. But if who or what he became in the alternate universe is able to step up and help them now, then it's all good. Jmo and all that.

I m with you on this. Jensen would not be playing Dean. At all. He would be a different character.

46 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Plus, as @Aeryn13 said if Dean exists in the AU world it sends a message that Dean isn't important in our world and that its Sam and only Sam that made the difference. 

I've always been if the opinion that is exactly what the show was saying I  12.23. I've said that I thought Cas was directing all of that to Sam in hat scene. That it was Sam not being born that changed things.

So to me if there is a charcter whose name is not  Dean Winchester and who was not raised as a Winchester or a Campbell then he would be a different character. He would not have the same memories nor experiences nor anything else that made him Dean. I mean he may not have the same speech cadences as Dean nor the same inner life. So yeah for me it would be a different character.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

The only thing that subverts my speculation for me is that Jensen said Dean steps up in a big way, which makes me believe he, Dean, makes a choice about something. 

The rest just got in my head this morning. 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

So to me if there is a charcter whose name is not  Dean Winchester and who was not raised as a Winchester or a Campbell then he would be a different character. He would not have the same memories nor experiences nor anything else that made him Dean. I mean he may not have the same speech cadences as Dean nor the same inner life. So yeah for me it would be a different character.

To me it would be a cop-out to "Jensen is going to play another character". I really want another character this time, one who is not any version of Dean, not from an AU world and nothing. And I want freaking powers on display this time. 

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catrox14

catrox14

49 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The only thing that subverts my speculation for me is that Jensen said Dean steps up in a big way, which makes me believe he, Dean, makes a choice about something. 

The rest just got in my head this morning. 

Well, he could still be telling the truth if it's a Dean from the AU who does something in the AU to help.  Maybe his name is Dean Campbell and he still isn't our Dean since he would have been born of Mary in the AU who is not our Mary. No, I don't think they were the same people whose lives went in a different direction because of Mary's decision. I think Mary is not this Mary. No one in the AU is OUR people IMO. I think the AU is doppelganger land. Not split strings or whatever.

So for me he could still be telling the truth that Dean steps up.

28 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

To me it would be a cop-out to "Jensen is going to play another character". I really want another character this time, one who is not any version of Dean, not from an AU world and nothing. And I want freaking powers on display this time. 

Who's to say a "Dean" in the AU wouldn't already be an angel or a demon? He could be anything at all. He'd still be a different character.

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companionenvy

companionenvy

I don't think AU Dean would fit with what Jensen has said about the character. Without having a metaphysical argument over what makes a person identifiably themselves, I think AU Dean would be fairly comparable, in terms of relationship to our Dean, with Dean Smith, who was, essentially, a guy with the genetic makeup of Dean but with a totally different set of memories. Whereas Jensen seems to be setting up something a lot more comparable to Jared playing Lucifer and Gadreel, or Misha playing Jimmy Novak (or, I suppose, the version of himself from the French Mistake). 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

Who's to say a "Dean" in the AU wouldn't already be an angel or a demon? He could be anything at all. He'd still be a different character.

Granted, if he was already a vessel for some other being, it would be a different character but honestly I wanna see the process how we get there. I want to see the context, why and how Dean makes the decision to step up in whatever form that is, the transformation and the final result. And I`d like to see all that in real time, not flashbacks or anything.

The show`s writers probably think Michael would still be a big surprise and therefore be a "twist". And they might be right for casual viewers. The online fandom obviously not so much. As soon as Jensen gave that spoiler, nearly everyone went to "it`s Michael, isn`t it". And the accompanying little tidbits all fit as well. 

But I think that is the main reason for why people think right now that it`s not gonna be Michael, because it would be too obvious. If it were a Joss Whedon show or a J.Michael Straczynski show, okay, yes, I would think that, too. But for SPN, I believe they think a lot of things are surprising that have been called as obvious by online fandom. The only show I know of (which admitted doing it) that really ever changed a big plot twist in a Season Finale because the entire fandom predicted it like 15 episodes out is Vampire Diaries. 

Now I`m still dubious how it`s gonna be handled but my best guess at the moment would be Michael of our world. 

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ahrtee

ahrtee

In the USA Today review of Scoobynatural:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2018/03/28/supernatural-animates-winchester-boys-mystery-solving-scooby-doo-crossover/463572002/

The crossover has encouraged the Supernatural brain trust to take even bigger swings to break from conventional TV.  

"There certainly is a temptation to be like, 'You know what? Next season we're doing Wacky Racers. (Or) Sam and Dean and the Jetsons.' That's an idea I like, where we find out Sam has a thing for Rosie the Robot," Dabb jokes. "We're talking about something right now that, if we can pull it off, would certainly equal or almost equal Scooby-Doo in Season 14."

 

(I don't know if this intrigues or terrifies me.)   :) 

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catrox14

catrox14

7 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

"We're talking about something right now that, if we can pull it off, would certainly equal or almost equal Scooby-Doo in Season 14."

GIVE ME MY SUPERXFILES!  Or my SuperArrow

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