Spoilers With Speculation

[SueB]

Just now, DittyDotDot said:

Oh, I don't know whose spec that is, but it definitely wasn't mine. It could work, but I'm not sure I see it happening, myself. Micheal is the only one I see it happening with, but then I think it's also too obvious. I have no other spec who it could be, though.

It was mine. I just was trying to think who would be a "meaty" character requiring research. And for research I was thinking of a character with a multi-episode on-screen personality. I'm not sure either AU or our Michael qualify.  Could be wrong.

[gonzosgirrl]

I was going to say, but.. but.. Azazel is dead, lit up and sparked out, dead. Then I remembered we're talking about Dabb-era Supernatural. There is literally nothing in canon we can count on as a baseline of what's possible. I hate that.

[MysteryGuest]

When Jensen talks about really having to study up and "bring" it, I think it would need to be someone who made more of a personal impact on the show.  The idea of Michael is a big part of the show, but he really wasn't much of a character, in and of himself.  I don't know that any of his portrayals were so amazing that he'd really have to work to top them, or do them justice.  

[catrox14]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

I was going to say, but.. but.. Azazel is dead, lit up and sparked out, dead. Then I remembered we're talking about Dabb-era Supernatural. There is literally nothing in canon we can count on as a baseline of what's possible. I hate that.

I assumed it would be an AU Azazel . I may have been confused.

[DittyDotDot]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I was going to say, but.. but.. Azazel is dead, lit up and sparked out, dead. Then I remembered we're talking about Dabb-era Supernatural. There is literally nothing in canon we can count on as a baseline of what's possible. I hate that.

I believe we they were discussing AU Azazel. 

[MysteryGuest]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I was going to say, but.. but.. Azazel is dead, lit up and sparked out, dead. Then I remembered we're talking about Dabb-era Supernatural. There is literally nothing in canon we can count on as a baseline of what's possible. I hate that.

Azazel is dead in our world, but not necessarily in the AU.

[gonzosgirrl]

Have we seen a demon in the AU yet? I know there was that freaky thing in 12x23, but have any of 'our' demons appeared yet?

Edited March 22, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Wayward Son]

I read back and it was @SueB who listed Au Azazel as a potential candidate. My apologises to you both for the mistake. 

[SueB]

No signs of demons in the AU yet. I think they lost the war.  I was thinking of an AU Azazel.  And I just think if any demon was gonna survive it would be that snake. If there's no Dean Winchester to kill him, then it needed to be a big cahoona (like AU Michael).  And Azazel may have gone into hiding.  He never struck me as a "go down swinging" kinda guy.  

But again, just spitballin'.  I think one of the interviews said Jack spends time with Lucifer in 21.  And another said Gabriel was back in 21. But they are filming 21 now.  So, Jensen plays him for 2 or 3 episodes?  

Think about it.  He said he had to do his homework.  Did that mean like "tonight and tomorrow I have to do my homework because I play this new character in EP21 and film this week???"   Or is it a new character in 22?  Berens is wrote 21 (another bad sign for the mothership, because B-L now has 22).  I'm good with Berens writing the 'new character' backstory for how we get there.  Not so sure about B-L as they skip over things like... continuity.  So, we'll see.

But unless this new character goes beyond the finale, it's a pretty short little storyline and Jensen may just be reacting to "this week's script" as he doesn't read that far in advance.  Or not.  Difficult to tell.     

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, SueB said:

No signs of demons in the AU yet. I think they lost the war.

There are the temptor demons. So to me that means there could be other demons and since Azazel existed it's likely there are some additional demons.

[gonzosgirrl]

37 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

There are the temptor demons. So to me that means there could be other demons and since Azazel existed it's likely there are some additional demons.

It's odd tho that the 'war' seems to be between the angels and the humans, with no mention of a demon threat at all, beyond that one disposable in 12x23.  Suddenly popping up with an AU Azazel now would be weird.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's odd tho that the 'war' seems to be between the angels and the humans, with no mention of a demon threat at all, beyond that one disposable in 12x23.  Suddenly popping up with an AU Azazel now would be weird.

The war was between the demons and the angels. Bobby said the humans got stuck in the middle. And now it's escalated to adding humans in the mix. I don't know why it would be unexpected to have an AU Azazel. He's the one that killed Mary in the AU. I don't remember if Bobby said he was dead now or not.

Edited March 22, 2018 by catrox14

[Res]

IMO AU Alistair would be more terrifying than AU Azazel unless they switched roles in the AU. While Azazel was definitely demon material, he didn't really "terrify" me. Alistair, Hell's head torturer, OTOH, was chilling to me. That would be interesting if Dean became possessed by one of those two.

In the same vein, I think John would be chilling as a demon, if he was returned to hell at the end of S2.

[Myrelle]

10 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

My spec Is that Jensen  is  going to play our world Michael.   Michael is supposed to be crazy.  Jensen may want to research how to portray a mentally unstable person. 

Jensen talked about how he did research on how to properly portray someone who was stabbed in the chest.   That scene with Metatron is so real it’s hard to watch. 

This is something I can see Jensen doing. 

I hope you're right.

He can play an unhinged individual, that's for sure. Just watch My Bloody Valentine

[DittyDotDot]

The only reason I can't see it being AU Yellow Eyes or any of the other big time demons is that Jensen says Dean steps up in a big way...which, to me, means consent and demons don't need consent to possess someone. Plus, I don't see any demon being able to take out AU Michael at this point. He's way too powerful. If an AU demon could've taken out AU Michael, I think they would've done it long before now. Asemodeus is the most powerful demon in our universe and I would doubt even he could stand toe to toe with AU Michael.

[Bobcatkitten]

I saw one interview where Jensen said he couldn't talk about the character but then admitted it's in the vein of Demon Dean and said yes to contacts, though then he started laughing so that was probably a ruse. 

[SueB]

Good point about Azazel not representing a Dean.  And they do haveRowena to help get Michael out of the cage. I like @ILoveReading ‘s idea of Dean taking on an insane Angel and trying to stabilize him from inside.  And mentally unhinged is not the same as murderous.  If he’s ‘drooling in a corner’ he may be completely different.

[Myrelle]

16 hours ago, Lemuria said:

What I really hate is that Gabriel is supposed to be our Gabriel.  Aw, c'mon, writers, really?  

Ditto. I never cared for the character that much and it subverts the burnt wings(signifying a dead angel) visual even further. I loved that part of the angel canon. It was Awesome.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Myrelle

[Bobcatkitten]

Rowena is all powerful now that Sam gave her the page from the grimoire so presumably she could get Michael out of the cage and Dean could be his vessel. Then we would get an epic battle between OW Michael and AU Michael with Dean/Michael winning.

 

Archangel vs. archangel. That would be interesting

Edited March 22, 2018 by scribe95

[gonzosgirrl]

9 hours ago, Res said:

IMO AU Alistair would be more terrifying than AU Azazel unless they switched roles in the AU. While Azazel was definitely demon material, he didn't really "terrify" me. Alistair, Hell's head torturer, OTOH, was chilling to me. That would be interesting if Dean became possessed by one of those two.

In the same vein, I think John would be chilling as a demon, if he was returned to hell at the end of S2.

I just don't see how being possessed by any one of them, especially John (???), would help them defeat AU!Michael, who seems to be emerging as the Big Bad of the season. Torture and mayhem aren't what's needed to fight an Archangel (IMO), it's another Archangel.

ETA: and honestly, I can't see Dean agreeing to become a demon again in any shape or form, is something he would agree to - not even to save Mary. Not even to save the world.

Edited March 22, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

It's all a matter of how serious the threat if AW Michael is. If he's shown to be worse than any demon or current available angels then Dean might do it. IMO that Dean was a demon might glve him some insights as to how to control said demon and give him an upper hand to control the possessor. Maybe Dean still has some demonic traces so he could overpower more easily.

IMO there would have to be serious protections in place to assure Dean gets out be it demon or angel. That's why for me a resurrection of Cain is the best option for Dean to be possessed. I think he  would be the most trustworthy demon non Crowley. I wonder if Rowena has the power to posess now

[Jonesy]

16 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Was there more from Paley than just the panel that was live-streamed? I don't recall them even mentioning Gabriel, or Cas potentially being bad, or Jack meeting Lucifer. Were these stand up interviews? Articles?

He is still in the cage, drooling and singing show tunes, according to Lucifer. Who know how true that is, but he was apparently bad enough that Chuck didn't think he could fix him in time to help with Amara.

Jessica at Tree Topper wrote for MarySue and interviewed the guys and got some good info...and got the info that Gabriel is the real Gabriel and gets redemption and that Cas stays good and allied with the boys--among other things as I mentioned above.  It was a good article...she also posted it on her site.

20 hours ago, catrox14 said:

He was filming per Bob Singer

Ah, good to know.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Jakes

[gonzosgirrl]

32 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

It's all a matter of how serious the threat if AW Michael is. If he's shown to be worse than any demon or current available angels then Dean might do it. IMO that Dean was a demon might glve him some insights as to how to control said demon and give him an upper hand to control the possessor. Maybe Dean still has some demonic traces so he could overpower more easily.

IMO there would have to be serious protections in place to assure Dean gets out be it demon or angel. That's why for me a resurrection of Cain is the best option for Dean to be possessed. I think he  would be the most trustworthy demon non Crowley. I wonder if Rowena has the power to posess now

Honestly, the only way I can see Dean agreeing to become a demon again if it is truly end game for him and my (and your) prediction that they are writing towards Dean's death is true.

[Myrelle]

23 minutes ago, Jakes said:

16 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 

Jessica at Tree Topper wrote for MarySue and interviewed the guys and got some good info...and got the info that Gabriel is the real Gabriel and gets redemption

He already earned redemption when he died the first time, IMO.

I think they just wanted to bring Speight back as Gabriel and didn't care that much about how they were going to make it happen and I feel myself slipping into bitterness mode again, so that's all that I'll say about that here.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

He already earned redemption when he died the first time, IMO.

I think they just wanted to bring Speight back as Gabriel and didn't care that much about how they were going to make it happen and I feel myself slipping into bitterness mode again, so that's all that I'll say about that here.

The showrunners seem to be wildly in love with Dick. He's directed episodes and now Gabriel gets more redemption. WHY? As you say, he redeemed himself with his death in s5. 

Maybe this is just setting up the grand finale of s14. Given the cast fond-ish farewells?

Here's the problem.  The Empty.  ALL angels and demons go to the Empty as their final resting place.  Unless Gabriel faked his own death in s5, he should have been there just like Castiel.

I'm wondering if Gabriel will possess Sam, Michael possesses Dean and they fight AW Michael together with Cas and Jack. 

38 minutes ago, Jakes said:

21 hours ago, catrox14 said:

He was filming per Bob Singer

Ah, good to know.

Yeah, he said that at the beginning of the panel.

[gonzosgirrl]

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm wondering if Gabriel will possess Sam, Michael possesses Dean and they fight AW Michael together with Cas and Jack. 

I don't think Jared would've been able to keep absolutely quiet (not even a hint, a la Jensen) about this if it were so. Maybe we'll get some more answers/hints at the con this weekend, if people can resist the urge to ask about on-set pranks.

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

49 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Ah, good to know.

Yeah, he said that at the beginning of the panel.

I still find this kind of odd - they've known Paleyfest was coming up for weeks/months and Mark P. was tweeting about it as recently as this week. You would think they could've planned that better, or filmed around him for one day for something like this. It's hard not to go all speculative on it.

Edited March 22, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Bobcatkitten]

Totally stealing this from someone on Twitter - what if it's now OUR Dean that says yes but a Dean in another AU that did say yes in the past, hence Jensen playing Michael.

My head is spinning. This AU stuff has never been my fave. 

[gonzosgirrl]

More spoilerish stuff from EW. It's about Sam. No idea how or if this plays into the Dean spec.

Link

 

Quote

Desperate for any news on Supernatural. — Iain
Sam is going to be put through the wringer toward the end of the season — and Jared Padalecki spent many hours in the makeup chair because of it. “Let’s say Sam Winchester goes through trials and tribulations that leave him pretty beat up,” the actor says. “And at the risk of getting fired, that’s as far as I’ll go with it, but it was a long time.”

[MysteryGuest]

The entire concept of Michael confuses me and I think that's mainly because they've never bothered to flesh him out.  He was there for the big showdown, then conveniently became a babbling idiot in the cage.  He appeared to be as strong as Lucifer when they both entered the cage, so why did Michael fare so poorly?  If Michael is in the cage at full angel power, then why couldn't he heal himself, emotionally?  And if his grace is not fully intact, then what does possessing Dean do to improve that?  Is he going to say yes to Michael so he can take down Lucifer, or can Lucifer be trusted in the fight against AU Michael?  And I didn't get the impression that this character Dean is going to portray is necessarily "good".   So many questions...

Edited March 22, 2018 by MysteryGuest

[gonzosgirrl]

Longer sneak-peek into ScoobyNatural. It looks like fun.

 

"I'd take a bullet for that dog." - Dean

LOL!

[ILoveReading]

14 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's odd tho that the 'war' seems to be between the angels and the humans, with no mention of a demon threat at all, beyond that one disposable in 12x23.  Suddenly popping up with an AU Azazel now would be weird.

Going with the least imaginative scenario, Sam teams up with Rowena and goes after Lucifer. It goes badly. Dean steps up by saying yes to Michael. 

[Myrelle]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Longer sneak-peek into ScoobyNatural. It looks like fun.

 

"I'd take a bullet for that dog." - Dean

LOL!

This actually looks hilarious.

Confession time-I loved Scooby-doo also and wanted to BE Daphne. :-D

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Longer sneak-peek into ScoobyNatural. It looks like fun.

 

"I'd take a bullet for that dog." - Dean

LOL!

Sam: "Instead you want hang out with Marmaduke!".

Dean: (gasps!)- "HOW DARE YOU! ".

That legit made me LOL. That was funny.

Dean still doesn't look like Dean, at all.

I love that we can hear Dean's voice wobble because he is SO EXCITED they are with the Scooby Gang. 

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sam: "Instead you want hang out with Marmaduke!".

Dean: (gasps!)- "HOW DARE YOU! ".

That legit made me LOL. That was funny.

Dean still doesn't look like Dean, at all.

I love that we can hear Dean's voice wobble because he is SO EXCITED they are with the Scooby Gang. 

After that line, he mutters 'Daphne could do so much better!" --- I thought Dean had dibs??!! LOL

I watched ScoobyDoo as a kid, but admittedly was not a super-fan. Have the words 'We've got (some) work to do (now)' always been part of the theme song? If so, that makes the crossover that much more apropos and kind of hilarious.

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I watched ScoobyDoo as a kid, but admittedly was not a super-fan. Have the words 'We've got (some) work to do (now)' always been part of the theme song? If so, that makes the crossover that much more apropos and kind of hilarious.

Yup. Those have always been the words IIRC.

This is the intro from 1969.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_C2HJvtRDY

Edited March 22, 2018 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

From various things the spoilersheet tumblr has said about Scoobynatural and the "funny pay-off" of Dean pursuing Daphne, I think it is that she ends up kissing Sam. Admittedly I`d roll my eyes rather than find that funny. 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

From various things the spoilersheet tumblr has said about Scoobynatural and the "funny pay-off" of Dean pursuing Daphne, I think it is that she ends up kissing Sam. Admittedly I`d roll my eyes rather than find that funny. 

Would she really kiss Sam, or Cas for that matter, when she is with Fred? That seems like a bad payoff.

Maybe the payoff will be that Dean finds out he actually likes Velma more and kisses Velma or she kisses him.

[Aeryn13]

The spoiler tumblr said that the kiss is "not between who you`d think", it was between "one of the boys with one of the Scooby girls" and to someone speculating among other things Sam kissing Velma since they seem to interact a lot that something was partially correct. Coupled with the funny pay-off, to me that leaves either Daphne/Sam or Velma/Dean. I`d put more odds on the first but don`t count the second one out completely.  

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Velma/Dean. I`d put more odds on the first but don`t count the second one out completely.  

Heh. Didn't Dean call Crowley "Velma" in s11?

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The spoiler tumblr said that the kiss is "not between who you`d think", it was between "one of the boys with one of the Scooby girls" and to someone speculating among other things Sam kissing Velma since they seem to interact a lot that something was partially correct. Coupled with the funny pay-off, to me that leaves either Daphne/Sam or Velma/Dean. I`d put more odds on the first but don`t count the second one out completely.  

And why else would Dean mutter to/at Sam that Daphne could do better? LOL at this show - it cant even give Dean what he wants in a cartoon kiss. 

[Myrelle]

22 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The spoiler tumblr said that the kiss is "not between who you`d think", it was between "one of the boys with one of the Scooby girls" and to someone speculating among other things Sam kissing Velma since they seem to interact a lot that something was partially correct. Coupled with the funny pay-off, to me that leaves either Daphne/Sam or Velma/Dean. I`d put more odds on the first but don`t count the second one out completely.  

We should take bets. My money is on Sam/Daphne, too, because that's how these writers and their brand of "humor" has rolled, at least for the past two seasons.

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And why else would Dean mutter to/at Sam that Daphne could do better? LOL at this show - it cant even give Dean what he wants in a cartoon kiss. 

Yup.

[Aeryn13]

Well, the writers of this episde aren`t part of the usual writing cadre. So no idea if they knew the show previously and how much or if they were given intros to "these are our characters" by Dabb/Singer. In the latter case, you can`t expect many good things. If it`s the former, then you get a more open playing field.  

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Well, the writers of this episde aren`t part of the usual writing cadre. So no idea if they knew the show previously and how much or if they were given intros to "these are our characters" by Dabb/Singer. In the latter case, you can`t expect many good things. If it`s the former, then you get a more open playing field.  

I think Dabb said at Paleyfest that one of the writers is one of his good friends, which is how  I think this all got started. So I suspect Dabb/Singer had some say so as to the script.

http://variety.com/2018/tv/features/supernatural-scooby-doo-scoobynatural-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki-interview-1202732177/

Quote

How ‘Supernatural’s’ ‘Scooby-Doo’ Crossover Came To Be

excerpt :

When Dabb’s friend Jeremy Adams, who works in Warner Bros. Animation, called and asked if the show had ever thought of crossing over with “Scooby-Doo,” it felt like the idea they had kicked around off-handedly for so long could finally happen.

“Warner Bros. owns both of us, so it’s very good corporate synergy, and they were like, ‘Give it a shot,'” Dabb said.

This may have already been posted. I just found it looking for Dabb's comments. Sorry if it was.

[Aeryn13]

Oh...that is...deflating. 

[catrox14]

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

Oh...that is...deflating. 

I'm sorry :(.

[gonzosgirrl]

20 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Oh...that is...deflating. 

 

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm sorry :(.

I can only imagine the character notes Dabb gave them. Sam, heroic and smart; Cas, strong, but kind of naive; Dean, eats a lot and says son-of-a-bitch

[Wayward Son]

I don’t think Sam is going to kiss Daphne and I don’t think the “she could do better” is about Sam. I think the episode is going to set up a rivalry between Dean and Fred over her. I thought that was what the bit where Dean is trying to protect Daphne during a chase only to turn around and see she has ran off with Fred was meant to establish. 

 

Its been a long time since I’ve watched the cartoon so I can’t demember if Daphne/Fred was a thing in it, but the ship has been floating around in some form for quite a while as it was a part of the Sarah Michelle Gellar (Daphne) and Freddy Prince Jr (Fred) starring Scooby Doo movie. 

[gonzosgirrl]

23 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I don’t think Sam is going to kiss Daphne and I don’t think the “she could do better” is about Sam. I think the episode is going to set up a rivalry between Dean and Fred over her. I thought that was what the bit where Dean is trying to protect Daphne during a chase only to turn around and see she has ran off with Fred was meant to establish. 

Did you watch the sneak peek? Dean is with Sam and only Sam at the moment he mutters that as an aside to their conversation.

Sam: "Instead you want hang out with Marmaduke!".

Dean: (gasps!)- "HOW DARE YOU! ".  (thanks @catrox14) Dean mutters, turning away, Daphne could do so much better.

If that's not meant for Sam, it's a very odd edit.

Edited March 22, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Did you watch the sneak peek  Dean is with Sam and only Sam at the moment he mutters that as an aside to their conversation.

Sam: "Instead you want hang out with Marmaduke!".

Dean: (gasps!)- "HOW DARE YOU! ".  (thanks @catrox14) Dean mutters, turning away, Daphne could do so much better.

If that's not meant for Sam, it's very odd.

Yes, I have and he also seems to be looking over in the direction of the Scooby gang where Daphne and Fred are sitting next to each other. 

ETA: I have this image of @SueB reading this thread and chuckling at the guesses which are completely off haha

Edited March 22, 2018 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

I think in that moment Dean is talking about Daphne and Fred. But it could work as ironic foresshadowing when she "picks" Sam, even for a moment. 

Certainly think it would be much cuter if instead Dean kissed Velma at the end for some reason. Or she planted one on him. It could be a comedic moment, that I wouldn`t mind. 

Velma in the live action movie was played by Linda Cardelini who is pretty gorgeous so at least someone must have thought Velma is hot., too