Spoilers With Speculation

[MysteryGuest]

It does seem like an awful lot of new characters are popping up.  I honestly was more than a bit surprised that the actor who plays Jack has already been given such high status on the show.  You'd think they'd want to see how he's received before making that jump, but maybe they figure the show ends next season, so who cares.  

I can only assume that with the emphasis on the Wayward spinoff, Jack's status on the show, the AU storyline, etc., we will be getting even less of Jensen/Jared than we did last season.  I freely admit that I'm not someone who adapts to change all that easily, so I'm concerned that the little show I loved is morphing into something I won't recognize.  Maybe it'll end up being a great season, but for right now, what I'm seeing isn't filling me with confidence.  If I wanted to watch an entirely new show, there are plenty of those to choose from.  

[SueB]

Fandom rejected the "isolated spin-off" so they are trying to warm us up.  Seems logical to me.  

As for the J's... they are sending out signals and flares... they are likely to negotiate less episodes. 

[Pondlass1]

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I just DGAF about the spin-off,

Me neither. Not bothering to read about it, think about it, care about it.  And I resent that it will take away Sam & Dean screen time.

Charm is not a word most would ascribe to a horror show such as Supernatural.  But for me the show has (had) its own quirky charm.  There was heart too.  Amid all the blood and guts and decapitations and contrived wedges forced between brothers, there was  this weird charm... and heart.

It's gone since Dabb.  Now story lines are thrust at me.  They don't make any real sense and they have so little depth or consequence, I know I don't have to really care.

Sigh... I feel I'm such a Supernatural Debbie Downer these days - and here I am a survivor of the season 8 didn't look for Dean raging debacle on IMDb.  This is worse.  Back then I cared.  Now I don't.  The more I learn about what's coming... I can't get enthused. 

 Andrew's obviously hot and heavy for his spinoff.  It's his focus.

For whom the bell tolls, Supernatural....It tolls for thee.

[MysteryGuest]

I know that both Jared and Jensen have discussed the "shorter season" option.  I could totally get on board with a 23 episode season that was split between SPN and Wayward.  I think Jody, Donna, et al are popular enough that they could carry that off.  The boys would get their shortened schedules.  Those of us who want more Sam/Dean/Cas would get 12+ solid episodes with our favorites, and no one would need to resent the spinoff for seemingly being a replacement for SPN.

They could have completely different story arcs, or they could have some overlap.  The actors could cross over to the other's show once in a while.  I really think it could work.  I know they won't do it, but it would be my preference.  If I'm going to get less of Sam and Dean, I would prefer to have them for half a season of good episodes, than 23 episodes of basically guest appearances.

[Aeryn13]

Depending on contract status, it is feasible that SPN would get a final shortened Season 14 of 13-16 episodes and the spin-off to receive a 13 episode mid-Season order. And they would share a timeslot. CW basically did the same with Vampire Diaries/Originals. And I know mid-Season are usually seen as the shows the network has less faith in but things are not quite so dire at the CW. 

Other than that, I do not see the network going for shortened SPN Seasons. They most certainly would like for the two shows to run at the same time, like solidify a night but not share a slot like in the above model. But everything depends on J2 re-signing. And at a certain point the network/studio won`t go for an even more lessened schedule, not with those pay rates.    

I don`t care either way for the spin-off, my wish would just be that Dean doesn`t have scenes with Missouri. Ever. Not likely but I can dream.

[DittyDotDot]

5 minutes ago, SueB said:

Fandom rejected the "isolated spin-off" so they are trying to warm us up.  Seems logical to me.  

Except, if these episodes are going to be Sam- and Dean-light, they're still doing an "isolated spin-off". Personally, I want Wayward Sisters to work, but I don't think they understand what fandom rejected about Bloodlines. IMO, fandom rejected it not simply because it had no characters we knew in it, but  fandom resented this other show calling itself Supernatural when it wasn't and taking focus away from Supernatural. They're basically doing the same thing again; which is why I'm not convinced there will be different results. I think it would've been smarter to bring Jodi into the fold more before they started introducing new characters. 

TBH, my biggest concern for S13 is that it sounds like we're going to have at least three different shows at times: Supernatural, Alternate Supernatural; and Wayward Sisters. I'm actually cool with that myself--I think the show could use a good shake up and this does seem like a bit of a shake up--but I think it's going to be a very hard sell to fandom at large.

[Wayward Son]

Personally, I am not as antagonistic towards the idea of new regulars as other posters. Some of my absolute favourite episodes of the show have been the ensemble type ones such as Abandon All Hope, And then There Were None or Stuck in the Middle (With You) were the entire current cast work together on a case. I've also found episodes that focus on other characters such as Weekend at Bobby's, The Man Who Would Be King and Lily Sunders Has Some Regrets absolutely delightful. So provided the show provides well written storylines for all involved I've no issues with it becoming more of an ensemble. 

 

However, I agree that for those who want it to go back to Sam and Dean heavy the only answer is to go for a shortened episode order of 11-13 episodes. IMO those who want the show to remain Sam and Dean heavy face two main problems. 

 

1. J2, for whatever reason, want more time off and negotiated that when it came to contract renewal. I believe they are currently around for 5-6 out of 8 days of shooting! It is simply Impossible for even the strongest of writers to make all episodes heavily about them. 

 

2. The writers are aware many in the audience primarily watch for Sam and Dean and their bond. I personally don't, but I can acknowledge many others do. As a result the writers try to use much of the limited screen time available to focus on them together as hunting partners or their emotional bond. This results in the show being fractured off into different segments. Last year it was Sam and Dean, Mary and the BMoL, Cas and Crowley on a mission to get Lucifer (early season) and then Cas with team Jack and Crowley vs prisoner Lucifer. Sadly, this is an instance where the fandom prevent the writers from making use of the obvious solution, which would be to split them up for some episodes and have them interact with the rest of the cast. That way most of the scenes would still have one of the two.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Wayward Son

[ILoveReading]

15 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

1. J2, for whatever reason, want more time off and negotiated that when it came to contract renewal. I believe they are currently around for 5-6 out of 8 days of shooting! It is simply Impossible for even the strongest of writers to make all episodes heavily about them. 

I think its even less then that.

If what I read was correct Jared and Jensen are contracted for 97 days which is about half of the shooting schedule. 

The general rule of thumb is one day of shooting equals 5 minutes of screen time.   So if JA and JP are shooting apprx 4 days per episode, that makes for about 20ish minutes of Sam and Dean.

I think the only way to compensate for that would be to have more episodes where Sam and Dean are split up.   It doesn't have to be every episode, but I would help for some having Sam or Dean in most scenes or having Sam and Dean for just half the episode.

There are other ways to show case the brothers without them being in each others pockets.  I loved Free to Be, You and Me and wouldn't mind seeing Dean hunt with Cas again.  Or have Sam go on a hunt with Jack. 

My favorite TV show these days is Lucifer (the show on Fox).  That's an ensemble show.  The main pairing is Chloe and Lucifer but the show doesn't shy away from having them work with other people.  Lucifer had done episodes with Chloe's ex, a lab tech, other Angels, and my personal favorite episode where he spent the majority of the episode with a priest.  It doesn't take away from Chloe/Lucifer.  I think it enhances the show. 

The only writer who seems capable of introducing new and interesting characters (all my opinion of course) is Yockey.  I really liked Lily, The Witch Twins and thought Bucky was a really interesting character.   He wasn't evil.  Just a coward.  Were all his hunts like that?  I know I mentioned it before but I thought a really interesting ep would have been Sam or Dean going missing and needing help, and the only hunter available was Bucky and Sam and Dean were forced to rely on him.  I though he did a really good job of getting me to want to see more.

It's part of the reason why a part of me wonders how accurate those ep titles are, because Yockey's eps are Celebrating the Life of Asa Fox, Lily Sunders has some Regrets, and Twigs, Twine and Tasha Banes.  None of the ep titles have a character name in them..  Expect ep 3, which is a Berens up. 

[Wayward Son]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I think its even less then that.

If what I read was correct Jared and Jensen are contracted for 97 days which is about half of the shooting schedule. 

The general rule of thumb is one day of shooting equals 5 minutes of screen time.   So if JA and JP are shooting apprx 4 days per episode, that makes for about 20ish minutes of Sam and Dean.

I think the only way to compensate for that would be to have more episodes where Sam and Dean are split up.   It doesn't have to be every episode, but I would help for some having Sam or Dean in most scenes or having Sam and Dean for just half the episode.

There are other ways to show case the brothers without them being in each others pockets.  I loved Free to Be, You and Me and wouldn't mind seeing Dean hunt with Cas again.  Or have Sam go on a hunt with Jack. 

Oh I agree the most logical way to deal with the situation is to separate the brothers for some episodes and allow them to interact with other members of the cast. The problem is IMO the writers seem to believe, rightly or wrongly, that the Sam n Dean must be together at all times crowd make up the majority of fandom. Therefore, they're too afraid to allow such splits for more than an ep or two a season at most. Another IRL issue is the fact J2 seem to have negotiated for the same days off. I believe both get Friday and Mondays off for instance. So there are at least two full days (10 minutes of screen time) that will inevitably involve neither of them. So it would really depend on how just how flexible J2 are willing to be. For instance would they go for "Jared, if you come in Friday and film with Misha, we'll give you next Wednesday when Jensen is filming with Alexander off instead" type deals. If they're willing to go with such deals then the writers could shake things up from time to time! But if they aren't then the writers hands are tied since I believe the contract (and the set days off it allows) are between Warner Bros and J2 rather than J2 and the show runner. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Pondlass1]

If I was in charge I would have made the spin off about Castiel in the AU. 

It's  AU Cas that's dead. Real Cas is stuck in the rift. His adventures as he travels the various AU worlds attempting to escape meeting old friends and foes that are different....thats the spin off. 

Castiel is an established, hugely beloved character. He's mostly been wasted these past seasons as they constantly must power him down or send him off on his own.  Mark S saw the light and left.

I'd watch Castiel's AU Adventures spin off. Sam and Dean could do crossovers. Maybe one episode they find a way for him to escape, but his life is now in the AU where he does much good. Tears all round as Sam and Dean are forced to leave him and wave goodbye as the rift closes  

It would be a hit. Misha could carry it off.  I don't see Wayward Whatevers having legs, especially if they make it all serious and teens balking at rules kind of thing although the love lives of sheriffs Donna and Jodi could be fun 

But I wish everyone best of luck. Tv is a crap shoot. Lots of hardworking folk.  I couldn't do it and judge not lest thee be judged ..

[DittyDotDot]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Another IRL issue is the fact J2 seem to have negotiated for the same days off. I believe both get Friday and Mondays off for instance. So there are at least two full days (10 minutes of screen time) that will inevitably involve neither of them.

From the very beginning of the show, Jared and Jensen had the same-ish days off while production shot a lot of B-camera footage. I don't think they can really muck with their days off too much because of the cons. In fact, when you think about it, Jared and Jensen are probably working the same they always have, it's just that they spend more times at cons and doing other promotion now when they used to spend more time shooting.

13 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

If I was in charge I would have made the spin off about Castiel in the AU. 

If I was in charge, I would've made the spin-off the AU in general. I love Jodi and I want Wayward Sisters to be successful, but I think the AU has more potential for a long-term spin-off that, IMO, I think fandom would get behind more. But, what do I know?

[Wayward Son]

14 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

From the very beginning of the show, Jared and Jensen had the same-ish days off while production shot a lot of B-camera footage. I don't think they can really muck with their days off too much because of the cons. In fact, when you think about it, Jared and Jensen are probably working the same they always have, it's just that they spend more times at cons and doing other promotion now when they used to spend more time shooting.

But at the beginning of the show J2 weren't away from shooting for half of the production days! And the fact both leads are off for 4/8 of shootings days is a problem when it comes to dealing with what fans consider to be the issue of "Sam and Dean becoming guest stars in their own show". It's hard for any writer to keep the focus firmly on the brothers when both leads are MIA half the time. At least if they had organised it so say Jensen got Fridays off and worked Monday, while Jared was working on Friday but off Monday then one of J2 could be involved in more shooting days.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

But at the beginning of the show J2 weren't away from shooting for half of the production days! And the fact both leads are off for 4/8 of shootings days is a problem when it comes to dealing with what fans consider to be the issue of "Sam and Dean becoming guest stars in their own show". It's hard for any writer to keep the focus firmly on the brothers when both leads are MIA half the time. At least if they had organised it so say Jensen got Fridays off and worked Monday, while Jared was working on Friday but off Monday then one of J2 could be involved in more shooting days.

No, I agree, Jared and Jensen aren't on set as much. That was my whole point. I think Jared and Jensen are both very flexible, though, and I imagine their days off do shift from time to time, but if they're doing cons on Saturdays and Sundays, then they probably just asked for a couple actual days off to see their families too. Which means, they only have 4 days left to shoot per episode.

All I'm saying is, I don't begrudge them for asking for time off. I think they are fully committed to the show, but they're also committed to their families too.

I think the problem isn't that Jared and Jensen have reduced screen time, but that the show hasn't developed other characters enough to carry the show when Sam and Dean aren't on screen. They introduce characters, play with them for awhile, and then kill them and resurrect some other character to play with for a while only to send them off to an alternate universe and then try to introduce a few more characters just to kill them off too, but they don't seem to be investing in many of these characters. It's a show in it's 13th season and it's kinda mind boggling they have so very few characters to play with. 

[Wayward Son]

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

All I'm saying is, I don't begrudge them for asking for time off. I think they are fully committed to the show, but they're also committed to their families too.

I don't actually begrudge them having more time off! As I mentioned previously, I personally have no issues with the show gaining a more ensemble feel to it! 

 

I was just stating their decision is definitely one of the biggest obstacles to the show returning to being the Sam and Dean heavy show others posters want. I've seen people posting stuff like "Dabb hates J2 and has pushed them aside" "Sam and Dean are guest stars on their own show". While I have my own issues with the writing for S12 I do think these claims are unfair. When J2 have negotiated with the WB for half the filming days off, and worse still the same days off, then Dabbs and the writing teams hands are tied! They have to fill up half the episode with non Sam and Dean related stuff!

[DittyDotDot]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

I've seen people posting stuff like "Dabb hates J2 and has pushed them aside" "Sam and Dean are guest stars on their own show". While I have my own issues with the writing for S12 I do think these claims are unfair. While I have my own issues with the writing for S12 I do think these claims are unfair.

Yeah, I think 90 percent of the claims that the show hates [insert character(s)] are unfair. I think there are a lot of complexities to what we see on-screen and little of it probably has to do with them hating characters and such.

Anyway, I wasn't disagreeing with you, just shifting the subject slightly.

[catrox14]

44 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think the problem isn't that Jared and Jensen have reduced screen time, but that the show hasn't developed other characters enough to carry the show when Sam and Dean aren't on screen. They introduce characters, play with them for awhile, and then kill them and resurrect some other character to play with for a while only to send them off to an alternate universe and then try to introduce a few more characters just to kill them off too, but they don't seem to be investing in many of these characters. It's a show in it's 13th season and it's kinda mind boggling they have so very few characters to play with. 

Maybe the issue isn't even with J2 time off but maybe more of an industry thing with how guest actors are paid and credited which affects story arcs over all. I dunno.

This was an interesting read from a couple of years ago. I don't know if it's changed since December 2015 and now but FWIW, here it is.

The TV Guest Actor Pay Squeeze: Recurring Are The New Regulars, Guest Stars Become Day Players

by Nellie Andreeva •and David Robb December 18, 2015 6:54pm

http://deadline.com/2015/12/tv-guest-actors-pay-recurring-regulars-guest-stars-1201669407/

Quote

As TV budgets get tighter among viewership fragmentation and declining ratings, studios often limit the number of regular cast members on a show, instead increasingly employing actors as “top of show” recurring guest stars for a fraction of the salary. Meanwhile, guest-starring gigs that would have normally been top of the show are now more and more often done as 1-3-day stints also at a deeply discounted price, making it virtually impossible for actors to live on guest-starring roles and meet their minimums for SAG-AFTRA health insurance. The trend also is putting a squeeze on talent reps who negotiate guest starring jobs for their clients for as little as $70-80 in commission.

Top of  Show guest stars were once a staple of the TV industry, with guest actors on a show routinely getting paid for the full production cycle of a TV episode — 7-8 days for drama, 5 days for comedy – plus 10% – for each job, no matter how many days they actually worked. For non-recurring characters, that has now been reduced dramatically to as little as scale for a single day’s work. TV series productions do more boarding of episodes, so if a guest character has three big scenes in an episode, instead of filming them over 3 days, they are squeezed together in one day, and an actor can be hired just for that one day.

There are provisions in the SAG-AFTRA contract that allow that based on how actors are billed. If they receive a “Guest Star,” “Special Guest Star,” “Starring” or “Special Appearance By” screen credit, they have to be paid as top of show “Major Role” performers – eight days of pay, plus 10%. But if they receive no such credit, they can be hired as Day Performers, or as Three-Day Performers.

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Maybe the issue isn't even with J2 time off but maybe more of an industry thing with how guest actors are paid and credited which affects story arcs over all. I dunno.

This was an interesting read from a couple of years ago. I don't know if it's changed since December 2015 and now but FWIW, here it is.

The TV Guest Actor Pay Squeeze: Recurring Are The New Regulars, Guest Stars Become Day Players

by Nellie Andreeva •and David Robb December 18, 2015 6:54pm

http://deadline.com/2015/12/tv-guest-actors-pay-recurring-regulars-guest-stars-1201669407/

I was talking about characters like Rufus, Jodi, Charlie and even Garth. For a show in it's 13th year, it has very, very few of these types of characters to pull out of the box and play with from time to time. Most shows invest in these types of characters so that later in their run they don't have to waste time introducing them, but are characters who can carry and episode and give their stars some time off. Supernatural has always been weird about this, IMO. They introduce characters like Ash, but kill them before they really do anything with them. I'm still shocked we've hung on to Jodi as long as we have.

[catrox14]

Just now, DittyDotDot said:

I was talking about characters like Rufus, Jodi, Charlie and even Garth. For a show in it's 13th year, it has very, very few of these types of characters to pull out of the box and play with from time to time. Most shows invest in these types of characters so that later in their run they don't have to waste time introducing them, but are characters who can carry and episode and give their stars some time off. Supernatural has always been weird about this, IMO. They introduce characters like Ash, but kill them before they really do anything with them. I'm still shocked we've hung on to Jodi as long as we have.

I understood what you were saying. And I'm not disputing nor disagreeing with you.

Just offering some other information that might help explain why the show seems to be moving to trying to use more infrequent recurring characters. That's all. No disputes on my end with your perspective.

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I understood what you were saying. And I'm not disputing nor disagreeing with you.

Just offering some other information that might help explain why the show seems to be moving to trying to use more infrequent recurring characters. That's all. No disputes on my end with your perspective.

Okay, I'm not sure why you quoted me though. That's a totally different topic to what I was talking about.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Okay, I'm not sure why you quoted me though. That's a totally different topic to what I was talking about.

 

Since your comment was about how the show has used their recurring characters, in general, it pinged my memory of that article so I brought it over for the general discussion. It was more just my having a train of thought from your mention of recurring characters and I thought the article was generally relevant to the entire conversation re  the show trying to deal with J2 time off, actor availability and use of recurring characters. 

I apologize for using your comment as that segue point, which left the impression I was having a go or disputing you. I wasn't. I'll be sure to be more clear in the future to avoid this kind of confusion.

[rue721]

10 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Assuming Patience is orphaned and goes to live with Jody she'll be the odd one out.

I think that it's likely that Patience's family is killed off quickly, because that's how SPN tends to roll in general (we just saw the casual obliteration of the Banes family last season -- save for the requisite sole survivor -- and that was just for a MotW episode).

But I'm still hopeful that her family won't be killed, because I think it's probably better for Wayward Sisters over the long term if there are additional characters -- beyond just the girls and Jodi -- baked into the premise and world of the show.

Also, I think it would make Patience more interesting as a character if she still has her own life and connections to the world beyond Jodi's house.

I also think it's pointless to kill off the parents of grown women in order to send them to Jodi's Home for Wayward Girls. I mean, Patience is what, 16 or 18 years old at least? She could just join in on hunting of her own volition, she doesn't need to be orphaned in order to have that freedom. If this were a children's show, then sure, orphaning her makes practical sense. But in this case...Eh.

8 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

If they're really taking a page from Arrow/The Flash's book and just introducing us to these characters a little, I don't expect the new show to actually start on Supernatural...does that even make sense?

That does make sense, but I think that any pilot, even a backdoor pilot, is going to necessitate that they introduce some kind of catalyst for the new story that the new show is going to tell. So while I don't think they'll totally blow their wad in E10, I do expect something major to happen to change Jodi's Motley Crew into the Wayward Sisters.

On the Originals, they did that by introducing a pregnancy in the backdoor pilot. Of course, the baby wasn't actually born until the end of the first season of the new show. But the pregnancy itself was enough of a catalyst...

I'm not sure what they'll use as a catalyst for the Wayward Sisters, though. Maybe a new kind of monster, maybe a new kind of ability...

6 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I could totally get on board with a 23 episode season that was split between SPN and Wayward.

Yes, I think it's reasonably likely that one, if not both, of those shows do move to half-seasons for S14, and certainly for SPN's S15 (if there is one).

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

The only writer who seems capable of introducing new and interesting characters (all my opinion of course) is Yockey.  I really liked Lily, The Witch Twins and thought Bucky was a really interesting character.   He wasn't evil.  Just a coward.  Were all his hunts like that?

Yes, I liked Lily, the twins, and Bucky, too. What they all had in common, IMO, was that they all seemed complex/multi-faceted and intriguing. They were each contradictions -- a semi-souled human, good witches, a cowardly hunter -- and that made them interesting to me.

I'm going to be lonely here at my table for one, but TBH I'm just not interested in the characters who are slated to be part of Wayward Sisters. They come off as straightforward to a fault, and I already feel like I know them inside and out. That's not to say that I dislike them, but I can't imagine watching a whole show about them. What more is there to see or discover about them? YMMV.

That said, I'll probably watch the backdoor pilots because I watch SPN pretty religiously. So we'll see, maybe something will be a surprise?

[DittyDotDot]

57 minutes ago, rue721 said:

That does make sense, but I think that any pilot, even a backdoor pilot, is going to necessitate that they introduce some kind of catalyst for the new story that the new show is going to tell. So while I don't think they'll totally blow their wad in E10, I do expect something major to happen to change Jodi's Motley Crew into the Wayward Sisters.

My question was more asking if it was going to be a legitimate backdoor pilot or was it going to be an episode of Supernatural with a few extra guess stars? I've been referencing Arrow/The Flash because casual viewers wouldn't have known Barry's introduction was also a backdoor pilot. If they are taking a page from Arrow/The Flash, I wouldn't expect them to actually fully delve into the catalyst for the show or any of the main plot lines, but just introduce us to the characters and let us see them working together for the first time.

It sounds like The Originals did a more traditional backdoor pilot where they gave more of a picture of the show itself. I'm just not sure which way Wayward Sisters will go yet. Maybe they're taking a page from everyone's book, though?

55 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I'm not sure what they'll use as a catalyst for the Wayward Sisters, though. Maybe a new kind of monster, maybe a new kind of ability...

I'm guessing it will be the "hellmouth"--or in this case a rift--gets opened and can't be entirely closed.

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I'm guessing it will be the "hellmouth"--or in this case a rift--gets opened and can't be entirely closed.

Heh. I'm totally picturing the Rift gets opened because Jackifer meets Claire or Alex and he has new feelings he doesn't understand and can't quite control and it causes him to open a Rift behind Jody's house. 

ETA: Maybe he meets Max Banes and has similar feelings

Edited August 14, 2017 by catrox14
Boo to my heteronormative thinking on that :(

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Heh. I'm totally picturing the Rift gets opened because Jackifer meets Claire or Alex and he has new feelings he doesn't understand and can't quite control and it causes him to open a Rift behind Jody's house. 

Heh, that would be funnier than my thought that he's trying to get back to his daddy but gets it wrong, or something.

Maybe it opened when the Spawn opened the other rift and that's what episode 3 will be dealing with?

[rue721]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

it causes him to open a Rift

Award for best euphemism goes to @catrox14

Heh I'm using that one.

[MysteryGuest]

Just reading some comments from the con today, and supposedly Jensen made reference to Rowena in the present tense.  I have no idea what the context of that comment was though, but it's enough to make me hopeful that we will see her again.  It will truly suck if last year's crispy critter was her farewell scene.

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Just reading some comments from the con today, and supposedly Jensen made reference to Rowena in the present tense.  I have no idea what the context of that comment was though, but it's enough to make me hopeful that we will see her again.  It will truly suck if last year's crispy critter was her farewell scene.

I also saw a tweet from her panel.  She invited some hair and make up people on stage, and they said something about pleating Jared's hair tomorrow.

[catrox14]

29 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Award for best euphemism goes to @catrox14

Heh I'm using that one.

Heh.

I just realized my comment as annoyingly heteronormative.

Maybe Max Banes ends up at Jody's and he causes Jackifer to  'open a Rift"

'the ladies or the fellas. I don't judge". 

[Jonesy]

15 hours ago, SueB said:

Fandom rejected the "isolated spin-off" so they are trying to warm us up.  Seems logical to me.  

As for the J's... they are sending out signals and flares... they are likely to negotiate less episodes. 

What flares did the guys send about  doing less episodes?  Did they say something at the Con?

[catrox14]

[SueB]

4 hours ago, Jakes said:

What flares did the guys send about  doing less episodes?  Did they say something at the Con?

PHXCon was the most blatant example.  But they shared similar sentiments at all cons EXCEPT Comic Con.  Comic Con they were very 'party line'.   

[Jonesy]

46 minutes ago, SueB said:

PHXCon was the most blatant example.  But they shared similar sentiments at all cons EXCEPT Comic Con.  Comic Con they were very 'party line'.   

Well what I remember is them saying a number of times about family time and episode 300 being a possible end also.  So if anything else I haven't heard.  I took it like they are getting people ready to end the show in season 14 instead of doing half seasons for numerous years.  That was my read.

[SueB]

58 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Well what I remember is them saying a number of times about family time and episode 300 being a possible end also.  So if anything else I haven't heard.  I took it like they are getting people ready to end the show in season 14 instead of doing half seasons for numerous years.  That was my read.

I should have been more clear, there was a long back and forth at JIBCON about someday transitioning to a mini-series event versus a movie.  A movie would not be 'enough'.  A similar sentiment (about a concentrated set of episodes) was in at least one other Con.  At PHXCon Jared floated a lead balloon* about 300 episodes.  So it's not just the 300 mark.  Plus the 'We don't want to be JOHN Winchester' parents.  The signal flare was less the 300 and more the impact of having additional children.  

 

*Lead Baloon -colloquialism for putting out an idea that is not well recieved.  

[Jonesy]

5 hours ago, SueB said:

I should have been more clear, there was a long back and forth at JIBCON about someday transitioning to a mini-series event versus a movie.  A movie would not be 'enough'.  A similar sentiment (about a concentrated set of episodes) was in at least one other Con.  At PHXCon Jared floated a lead balloon* about 300 episodes.  So it's not just the 300 mark.  Plus the 'We don't want to be JOHN Winchester' parents.  The signal flare was less the 300 and more the impact of having additional children.  

 

*Lead Baloon -colloquialism for putting out an idea that is not well recieved.  

Okay I see.  My guess though is still a season 14 end regardless of the input they got.  And this is from someone that who has been telling panicky fans for 7 years SPN is in ZERO danger of ending.  Maybe you are right and they go for half seasons for a number of seasons but I don't get that vibe.  We'll see soon enough.

[Jonesy]

Some interesting tweets concerning Misha/Cas at VanCon this weekend from various Con goers:

 

 

--Misha's favorite version of Cas ever is the one he's working on now

--Misha just said he's working on a totally different version of Cas right now...and it's his most challenging

--He said looks the same but totally different otherwise

--Misha is working on a different version of Cas, totally different and never done before

--First spoilers!  Misha is atm working with Castiel that looks the same but is totally different

 

Tree Topper looked at these and thinks Misha is talking about the powerful being he said he meets in what we now know is the Big Empty...and that it has Cas's visage.   I agree and the Big Empty episode is suppose to start filming in a day or so.  Jessica from Tree Topper then adds a previous Misha quote from SDCC to explain why she believes this: 

 

"Though Cas is going to stay dead for a little while, we will find him in a new environment that's not what you expect...I have no idea how we're going to shoot it, it's going to be super weird," Collins said.  Cas however won't be alone in this strange world.  He will be joined by a "newish" character played by "a really amazing actor.  So we're super lucky to have this guy.  Very good looking as well," Collins hinted.  This could be related to a tease from Singer that, "we have a character...that's coming back, that's not in the form of the character we've had before."

 

 

I and some others have thought Misha was jokingly hinting the handsome and talented other actor was Misha.  That is exactly his type of humor.  Now this new info seems to be saying the other Cas is NOT Cas but a powerful being portraying Cas to Cas.  A being very unlike Cas in personality.   And I do think it's a character we've seen before.  My top 2 candidates for a powerful being we've seen before with a personality unlike Cas--Death or Gabriel.

[catrox14]

I swear to gods, if they reset Cas and erase 9 years of character and relationship building between him and Dean and Sam, I'm gonna be all but done.

[Jonesy]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I swear to gods, if they reset Cas and erase 9 years of character and relationship building between him and Dean and Sam, I'm gonna be all but done.

Nah, you don't have to worry about that.  Misha after reading thru first 8 scripts has said--he and the boys are on the same page fighting together, Jack imprints on him as  Daddy  and  most importantly says Cas really begins to really really feel like part of the family with the boys this season.   So whatever Cas deals with early he comes back himself--thank god!

 

But I have to say episode 4 sounds like a great meaty part for Misha and he sounds excited.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Jakes

[DittyDotDot]

37 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I swear to gods, if they reset Cas and erase 9 years of character and relationship building between him and Dean and Sam, I'm gonna be all but done.

It doesn't sound like they reset Cass to me. What I take away is Cass will be changed by his experience in The Big Empty, but not reset. Think of it more like Dean coming back from Hell or Purgatory changed.

BTW, if it turns out Death is in the Empty with Cass and they don't get Julian Richlings back...I don't know if I can accept this! ;)

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Nah, you don't have to worry about that.  Misha after reading thru first 8 scripts has said--he and the boys are on the same page fighting together, Jack imprints on him as  Daddy  and  most importantly says Cas really begins to really really feel like part of the family with the boys this season.   So whatever Cas deals with early he comes back himself--thank god!

I appreciate your optimism! Sadly, I remain skeptical. 

The boys being on the same page  doesn't necessarily mean it's OUR!Cas, the one I've known for 9 seasons. 

Cas accepting his family:

Cas declared the boys family in Stuck in The Middle:  "You're my family. I love you (cut to Dean)...I love all of you".  And IMO there was nothing about their relationship after that which  implied Cas was all 'Just kidding!'. Not even when he went back to Heaven. He went because he was trying to fight the Spawn birth.  I do think he felt guilty for lying to the boys after he stole the Colt, which IMO was not enough to erase what he said in Stuck in the Middle, especially not with Dean telling him "We'll work through our crap like we always do".  Why would Cas now accept that he's really their family? Sounds fishy to me and/or crap continuity LOL. it could go either way.

IMO, the Cas that comes back will be the 'never seen before' Other!Cas, be he AU, resurrected and altered!Cas, maybe even dark!Cas who's been in the Empty for so long that he'll do anything to get out. Maybe he wins a battle with Our!Cas and gets out of the Empty, leaving Cas behind and runs around as Cas' doppelganger trying to stake his place with the Winchesters, hence 'getting on the same page", Jack RE-imprinting on 'Cas' since IMO he already imprinted on him in utero, and accepting his new family. 

That said, hope springs eternal for many, I'll continue to prepare myself for disappointment. LOL

[companionenvy]

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

Nah, you don't have to worry about that.  Misha after reading thru first 8 scripts has said--he and the boys are on the same page fighting together, Jack imprints on him as  Daddy  and  most importantly says Cas really begins to really really feel like part of the family with the boys this season.   So whatever Cas deals with early he comes back himself--thank god!

 

But I have to say episode 4 sounds like a great meaty part for Misha and he sounds excited.

Thank you Lord Chuck!

 

Catrox, you are probably right to be wary, but I think this is for real -- we're getting another version of Cas/Misha, but our Cas will be back. Even if he is altered in some way in terms of power and status, he'll still have his memories and a relationship with the boys to build on.

[SueB]

I'm super excited for Misha.  I don't think he'd be talking this way if he knew OUR Cas was going to be permanently 'lost'. Misha is no dummy, he'd be wary of fan disappointment and phrase it more cautiously. 

[MysteryGuest]

As much as I love our Cas, I'll be happy if they give Misha something a bit meatier to do.  They haven't really known what to do with him in recent years, and he hasn't exactly been happy (Cas that is, not Misha).  He's been totally down on his abilities as a hunter, and has made some very sketchy choices recently because of his mindset.  If he needs to be "different" for a bit in order to get his mojo back, I can live with that.  

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

As much as I love our Cas, I'll be happy if they give Misha something a bit meatier to do.  They haven't really known what to do with him in recent years, and he hasn't exactly been happy (Cas that is, not Misha).  He's been totally down on his abilities as a hunter, and has made some very sketchy choices recently because of his mindset.  If he needs to be "different" for a bit in order to get his mojo back, I can live with that.  

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm okay with him being different for a while. I'm afraid it won't be temporary. That's my fear.

[MysteryGuest]

45 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm okay with him being different for a while. I'm afraid it won't be temporary. That's my fear.

Well, I'd like to assuage your fears by stating that TPTB know how important the Cas/Winchester relationship is to the fans, and they'd never permanently screw with that, but my confidence in Dabb and Co. isn't at a very high level right now.  I still have to believe that they wouldn't destroy one of the most popular relationships on the show.

[nightwing877]

On 13/08/2017 at 7:39 PM, Wayward Son said:

Ooh that's a good point about Donna! Assuming Patience is orphaned and goes to live with Jody she'll be the odd one out. Plus it seems to me as though Kim Rhodes is being presented as the lead adult female. 

 

Im not sure about Cas. I'd love it, but I'm not sure Misha would want the extra work. At SDCC he was asked about directing again and he stated he's opted not to due to the extra commitment involved and his lack of time for it due to his other personal projects and charity work.

I think Kim Rhodes will be the lead. I mean she is after all been on SPN for nearly as long as Mark Shepard has. She has been on it for 8 years, so I do think she will be the lead character, Patience will be the odd one out, but I like it because we need someone fairly new for the show to some new blood. 

 

Oh, I didn't know that. That makes sense then about Misha. So he might not be on the spin-off in a recurring role after all, but I wouldn't cross off a one off guest appearance though. 

 

On 13/08/2017 at 10:29 PM, DittyDotDot said:

Thinking on it more, would they do the big deaths and character motivations for Wayward Sisters on Supernatural? I was really sure Missouri would bite it this season, but now I'm not so sure. If they're really taking a page from Arrow/The Flash's book and just introducing us to these characters a little, I don't expect the new show to actually start on Supernatural...does that even make sense?

No that makes perfect sense, Missouri could be killed off on the Wayward sisters real pilot. After all they had Mary and jessica killed in SPN's pilot. So why would they have all the wayward cast loosing somebody already even before the show starts. Maybe she might survive and be killed off early into the Wayward Sisters first season instead. 

[catrox14]

I like these location filming updates. This one says "atmospheric smoke" will be used.

 

[catrox14]

[gonzosgirrl]

In watching the Gold panel from this weekend's con, Jensen mentions that he filmed the cameo in Josh Duhamel's film 'yesterday' (meaning Saturday) and that it was his one day off, to quote: "that fact that that just happened to fall in my one day off this whole week, these past two weeks, was kinda kismet"

Jared was quite happy about the fact he'd had the whole week off. So now I'm wondering what's up with ep 3 that Jensen needed to be there, but not Jared. And then there's that tweet from Jensen with the kids which I assumed meant he was home, but maybe the fam is in Vancouver, too? Or maybe he didn't just mean one day off from filming, but from working at the brewery too? My head hurts, lol.

Edited August 15, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

In watching the Gold panel from this weekend's con, Jensen mentions that he filmed the cameo in Josh Duhamel's film 'yesterday' (meaning Saturday) and that it was his one day off, to quote: "that fact that that just happened to fall in my one day off this whole week, these past two weeks, was kinda kismet"

Jared was quite happy about the fact he'd had the whole week off. So now I'm wondering what's up with ep 3 that Jensen needed to be there, but not Jared. And then there's that tweet from Jensen with the kids which I assumed meant he was home, but maybe the fam is in Vancouver, too? Or maybe he didn't just mean one day off from filming, but from working at the brewery too? My head hurts, lol.

Or maybe that pic wasn't from Friday, but he just posted it on Friday. Maybe he took it another day? 

[Wayward Son]

I can't remember where, or I'd link, but I read Jensen worked 1.5 days this week and then Jared didn't work at all. I'd assume he could be referring to brewery or other non-show work as we know he gets Friday and Mondays off.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Wayward Son