Spoilers With Speculation

[Idahoforspn]

27 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

 IMO the "and" shouldn't even be a factor for Jensen. What I mean is that IMO the billing should be 

 

Starring

Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles (a joint first billing that indicates their equal role on the show.

This!!

27 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Thehe "and" credit is still secondary to a first billing) 

Mark Pellegrino  (assuming he is still a regular next year) 

And Misha Collins (again assuming he Is still a regular) 

 

The fact that Jensen has been happy to allow Jared to maintain the first billing for twelve years suggests that billing placement isn't something that Jensen is overly concerned with.

I think Jared was the top billed actor per his contract year one. There has been debate, but IMO, Jared was hired as THE lead actor originally and the first year Jensen wasnt considered co-lead. If that is the case and Jared had top billing in his contract, it would be next to impossible to negotiate it out. Jared would have to willingly give it up and that would be pretty not smart when thinking about his future after SPN.

Quote

Either way I really don't see it as being a potential source of amnosity between Jensen and Misha.

I don't either. I had understood it was Jensen that went to bat for Misha's when Sera Gamble was trying to write him out of the show.

They appear to be good friends.

Quote

 

 

However, I personally find it hard to truly consider Misha's billing as better than Jensen's when he receives NO billing for more than half the episodes..

I find it personally hard not to feel  Jensen is being slighted when Misha apparently receives top billing when he does appear with Jensen. Misha is more important when he is in an episode than Jensen?

Jensen and Misha are probably fine. That doesn't mean I have to be. :-)

Edited May 30, 2017 by Idahoforspn

[Airmid]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Bottom line, is that kind of change does not happen willy nilly and it is significant. That said,  I don't think Misha's "and" credit has anything to do with Mark's departure and the Twitter brouhaha with Michaels. IMO those are completely separate things.

That's pretty much my line of thought. Michaels brought this on himself with his baiting technique and failed when Mark S put a stop to it out of respect to fans. It's one things to bait when there's things going on we don't know about and it's another when they know a final decision/situation and still do it anyway. So for that, I do respect Mark S for putting a stop to it. 

Whatever is going on with the billing I don't see that as a problem that was happening during filming but you never know. Mark S. seemed more annoyed that they cut out a line he really thought needed to be in there instead of having some kind of pay/billing dispute. Like they hadn't sent him off properly, and yeah, if I was a long time actor with an established character I would want a good send off too. I don't think he got one, at least not as good as one as they could have given him. They were too busy killing off people and sending them to other worlds (did we really need other worlds in this universe with all the other massive planes of existence we already have?) to do it well.

YMMV on that one though, JMO.

[Idahoforspn]

28 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 

Bottom line, is that kind of change does not happen willy nilly and it is significant. That said,  I don't think Misha's "and" credit has anything to do with Mark's departure and the Twitter brouhaha with Michaels. IMO those are completely separate things.

Agreed!

[Aeryn13]

Quote

If that is the case and Jared had top billing in his contract, it would be next to impossible to negotiate it out.

His management does seem cutthroat so I`d say over their cold, dead bodies and probably not even then. Misha`s rep also got a good deal. Jensen`s is the only one that fell down on the job in this case. I would say he got the most lessened screentime this year so maybe there was that.

Now the thing with Mark Sheppard seems to be very recent. He has always been quite positive about the show and being on it, coy jokes and baiting about Crowley`s "death" and all. One Season Finale later and it`s bitterness central. I think Dabb just sucks more as a showrunner than everyone before him, not just in the creative side of things but maybe interpersonal relationships and handling the actors.      

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, Airmid said:

Michaels brought this on himself with his baiting technique and failed when Mark S put a stop to it out of respect to fans.

Personally, I don't think Michaels was baiting anyone. He said what they say for every character exit, "Thanks and you know, no one truly dies on Supernatural." I think he just didn't think it all through before he tweeted it. I think he was trying to do what no other producer thought to do, publicly thank Mark for all his hard work over the years.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

His management does seem cutthroat so I`d say over their cold, dead bodies and probably not even then. Misha`s rep also got a good deal. Jensen`s is the only one that fell down on the job in this case. I would say he got the most lessened screentime this year so maybe there was that.

Now the thing with Mark Sheppard seems to be very recent. He has always been quite positive about the show and being on it, coy jokes and baiting about Crowley`s "death" and all. One Season Finale later and it`s bitterness central. I think Dabb just sucks more as a showrunner than everyone before him, not just in the creative side of things but maybe interpersonal relationships and handling the actors.      

This makes me wonder where Bob Singer is in all of this brouhaha. 

[Wayward Son]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

His management does seem cutthroat so I`d say over their cold, dead bodies and probably not even then.

What gives you the impression Jared's agents are particularly cut throat? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything. I'm just curious. 

[MysteryGuest]

I'm thinking the only reason Mark expressed a bit of sarcasm about his specific line being edited was because he was planning to release his new shirt the very next day, which contained the line he thought he was going to say.  

[Pondlass1]

Bottom line - MS is pissed and won't be back.  Will he actually attend the Phoenix Convention?  If he does, well... for one thing, I think he'll get a standing ovation. And then a barrage of questions unless asking is verboten. I'll miss him drumming with Louden Swain.  

Both Marks are accomplished versatile actors, but they got rid of the wrong Mark and the wrong character in this instance.  Crowley's just more entertaining.  And now there's this other Lucifer on another network who's killing it... 

It's like Lucifer overload. Anyway, let's hope the adventures of Luci & Son works and the series is somehow rejuvenated. 

[Airmid]

17 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Personally, I don't think Michaels was baiting anyone. He said what they say for every character exit, "Thanks and you know, no one truly dies on Supernatural." I think he just didn't think it all through before he tweeted it. I think he was trying to do what no other producer thought to do, publicly thank Mark for all his hard work over the years.

Which probably would have worked if there hadn't been so many deaths of series regulars in the end and so much left up in the air. I do think you're right that he didn't think it all the way through, though I do think it is a type of baiting, like maybe they plan on coaxing Mark S. back for an episode here and there in the future if need be like JB. They just didn't let him in on that, or nothing was concrete. 

At least he was trying though. I think the backlash on Michaels was a little much and will probably make them reconsider saying anything to long time actors who get axed in the future. If he had only just said thanks for coming along on this ride, it would have gone over much better. Like I said, with all the deaths and fan spec on who died and who didn't, it was a bad move to make it sound like Crowley wasn't really dead in any form.

And maybe Mark S. was a little tweaked that they didn't use the take of him saying that line he liked as his final send off which kind of notched up the bad feelings all around. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

What gives you the impression Jared's agents are particularly cut throat? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything. I'm just curious. 

I think JP has the biggest promotional pushes across the board and I think some agent(s) is hard at work for that. Of course the CW promo person is besties with Genevieve Padalecki so there is some in-house advantage as well but overall I often question if Jensen`s management is sleeping on the job. 

[Idahoforspn]

20 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This makes me wonder where Bob Singer is in all of this brouhaha. 

Singer might have learned to not be so public with his comments after Felicia. He said (at a con?) that if Felicia called up and said she had 4 days for filming SPN, they wouldn't say no. Felicia tweeted that she was "sitting by the phone.". I don't want Charlie back either and I have heard that her episodes did not do well in the ratings but, IMO, these guys say whatever they think will get them off the hook with fans without a lot of thought to how accurate the statement is. Yes I am cynical.

[Pondlass1]

2 minutes ago, Airmid said:

I don't think Michaels was bai

Well, what struck me about that tweet was the fact that JM at that time didn't seem aware of MS's fury.    He was just doing the usual lip service to fans because he was without a  clue. (He is in charge of budget, I think??).  Mark soon put him to rights.

[Idahoforspn]

8 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Bottom line - MS is pissed and won't be back.  Will he actually attend the Phoenix Convention?  If he does, well... for one thing, I think he'll get a standing ovation. And then a barrage of questions unless asking is verboten. I'll miss him drumming with Louden Swain.  

Both Marks are accomplished versatile actors, but they got rid of the wrong Mark and the wrong character in this instance.  Crowley's just more entertaining.  And now there's this other Lucifer on another network who's killing it... 

It's like Lucifer overload. Anyway, let's hope the adventures of Luci & Son works and the series is somehow rejuvenated. 

Ditto

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think JP has the biggest promotional pushes across the board and I think some agent(s) is hard at work for that. Of course the CW promo person is besties with Genevieve Padalecki so there is some in-house advantage as well but overall I often question if Jensen`s management is sleeping on the job. 

Jensen changed management so he must have seen a need. However, I haven't seen any improvements but maybe there have been.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think JP has the biggest promotional pushes across the board and I think some agent(s) is hard at work for that. Of course the CW promo person is besties with Genevieve Padalecki so there is some in-house advantage as well but overall I often question if Jensen`s management is sleeping on the job.

 

whatever happened to that website Jared was doing that was all Jared news. That seems to have fallen by the wayside. Wasnt  that his Manager's thing? I think it's for the best that went nowhere. It was not ...good. Poor design etc.

[Wayward Son]

Perhaps we should consider moving this to a different thread, although I'm not sure which one, since we've moved from speculating on Mark's reason for leaving to a general discussion on the shows actors and their contracts. 

 

12 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think JP has the biggest promotional pushes across the board and I think some agent(s) is hard at work for that. Of course the CW promo person is besties with Genevieve Padalecki so there is some in-house advantage as well but overall I often question if Jensen`s management is sleeping on the job. 

Thanks for the clarification :)

[Airmid]

5 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Well, what struck me about that tweet was the fact that JM at that time didn't seem aware of MS's fury.    He was just doing the usual lip service to fans because he was without a  clue. (He is in charge of budget, I think??).  Mark soon put him to rights.

It's not the first time a comment has been made by TPTB that has been completely oblivious to fan sentiment and it won't be the last sadly. It's not a unique phenomena to SPN either. It actually kind of feels like the showrunners could care less about telling a good story or treating their characters well as long as all the right buttons are hit. Which kind of makes me 'meh' on next season since I can kind of see where this road is heading and I'm not sure I want to be on it anymore. 

12 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

Singer might have learned to not be so public with his comments after Felicia. He said (at a con?) that if Felicia called up and said she had 4 days for filming SPN, they wouldn't say no. Felicia tweeted that she was "sitting by the phone.". I don't want Charlie back either and I have heard that her episodes did not do well in the ratings but, IMO, these guys say whatever they think will get them off the hook with fans without a lot of thought to how accurate the statement is. Yes I am cynical.

I don't think that's cynical, I think that's realistic. 

[DittyDotDot]

13 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Well, what struck me about that tweet was the fact that JM at that time didn't seem aware of MS's fury.    He was just doing the usual lip service to fans because he was without a  clue. (He is in charge of budget, I think??).  Mark soon put him to rights.

Perhaps he wasn't aware of the fury because there was and is no fury on Mark's part? I'm not convinced Mark Sheppard is pissed, myself. I'm only convinced he's trying to gracefully manage an out of control situation.

Edited May 30, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[MysteryGuest]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

whatever happened to that website Jared was doing that was all Jared news. That seems to have fallen by the wayside. Wasnt  that his Manager's thing? I think it's for the best that went nowhere. It was not ...good. Poor design etc.

I don't remember that at all.  How long ago was that?  I do think that Jared's more into promoting himself than Jensen is.  He did those adds on Twitter for Minute Maid and was it McDonalds?   I also think that Gen is doing some of the same thing on her Instagram.  The photos are definitely lovely, but they're professionally taken.  They're not just random selfies or cell phone pictures of the kids.  And there are more than a few product tie-ins on there.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it's just different from Jensen and Danneel.

[Idahoforspn]

1 minute ago, Airmid said:

It's not the first time a comment has been made by TPTB that has been completely oblivious to fan sentiment and it won't be the last sadly. It's not a unique phenomena to SPN either. It actually kind of feels like the showrunners could care less about telling a good story or treating their characters well as long as all the right buttons are hit. Which kind of makes me 'meh' on next season since I can kind of see where this road is heading and I'm not sure I want to be on it anymore. 

I don't think that's cynical, I think that's realistic. 

I also just saw a report that supposedly at PURCON, Ruth supposedly said she was not consulted or even told of her character's death before the episode. If that's true,  it is another reason to fire Dabb IMO.

[MysteryGuest]

3 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

I also just saw a report that supposedly at PURCON, Ruth supposedly said she was not consulted or even told of her character's death before the episode. If that's true,  it is another reason to fire Dabb IMO.

If that's true, that's just crazy.  How do you write someone off the show and not tell them about it?  Unless she's one of the people who will be brought back?  Maybe everyone comes back except Mark S.  What a mess.

[Idahoforspn]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

What a mess.

Honestly, this is the most accurate assessment of the current state of affairs I have seen.

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

don't remember that at all.  How long ago was that?  

It was a couple of years ago IIRC

9 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

I also just saw a report that supposedly at PURCON, Ruth supposedly said she was not consulted or even told of her character's death before the episode. If that's true,  it is another reason to fire Dabb IMO.

Wow. That's terrible. I can't fathom that.

[DittyDotDot]

20 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

I also just saw a report that supposedly at PURCON, Ruth supposedly said she was not consulted or even told of her character's death before the episode. If that's true,  it is another reason to fire Dabb IMO.

I'm not sure I buy that. Ruth's comments before the episode aired suggests to me she knew.

I would buy she wasn't consulted about it, though. I wouldn't expect the actor to be consulted, nor do I think they've ever done that in the past. They certainly didn't consult Felicia about Charlie's death. Nor do I imagine they consulted Jim Beaver before they decided to kill Bobby.

Edited May 30, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Airmid]

6 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

I also just saw a report that supposedly at PURCON, Ruth supposedly said she was not consulted or even told of her character's death before the episode. If that's true,  it is another reason to fire Dabb IMO.

Hopefully just gossip and not true. Unless an actor is a complete blabber mouth and can't be trusted to keep quiet about major plot developments (and I don't think she is) then there's no reason to not tell an actor. 

 

4 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

If that's true, that's just crazy.  How do you write someone off the show and not tell them about it?  Unless she's one of the people who will be brought back?  Maybe everyone comes back except Mark S.  What a mess.

All the deaths seemed pointless except for Crowley's. His should have been the big one honestly, the boys should have been through the portal and no Mary bashing Lucifer in the face scene was required. Or Cas being stabbed and dying. Or really Kelly dying because why do nephilim pop out half grown? Why didn't Jack bring her back if he loved her and isn't evil unless she truly didn't want to be on earth anymore? Why did Rowena die the way she did? 

If Lucifer and Mary start having heart to heart conversations about the difficulties of relating to grown children they didn't raise I am so done. Seriously. I figure there has to be a reason Mary was trapped with Lucifer both separated from their children and if that's it, I'm walking. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Perhaps he wasn't aware of the fury because there was and is no fury on Mark's part?

I think he is savvy enough to have adopted a different tone then on his twitter in regards to all this. Instead the tweets are sounding increasingly like bitterness come to life. He must realize how it reads, anything else would be naive IMO and that`s not something he is. If the entire affair was affable, I would have expected a different handling of the exit from all sides. This now looks like a mess. 

[Idahoforspn]

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I'm not sure I buy that. Ruth's comments before the episode aired suggests to me she knew.

 

I don't know for sure. That's why all the "supposedly"s. It will be interesting to see what is the accurate quote.

[Pondlass1]

6 minutes ago, Airmid said:

if that's it, I'm walking.

I think you'll be walking.  Andrew seems to prefer exposition heavy rather than dialogue driven.  It's TELL rather than SHOW. I've had no clue how people feel about each other or their motivations all season.

The writers are back in court as we speak.  I'm hoping they have some awareness of where they went wrong last season.  Lots of disappointing reviews our there, even Alice - I think she's even done with the show.  I tweeted her article links to Andrew several times as I felt she made good points.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Pondlass1

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think he is savvy enough to have adopted a different tone then on his twitter in regards to all this. Instead the tweets are sounding increasingly like bitterness come to life. He must realize how it reads, anything else would be naive IMO and that`s not something he is. If the entire affair was affable, I would have expected a different handling of the exit from all sides. This now looks like a mess. 

TBH, I think he is sounding increasingly bitter...at fans for continuing to insist he's trolling them. I've yet to feel he's actually bitter at the show, though.

[companionenvy]

6 minutes ago, Airmid said:

If Lucifer and Mary start having heart to heart conversations about the difficulties of relating to grown children they didn't raise I am so done. Seriously. I figure there has to be a reason Mary was trapped with Lucifer both separated from their children and if that's it, I'm walking. 

Ah... so true! That thought had crossed my mind, and then I suppressed it in horror. But this show does love its parallels.

At this point, I know I can't credibly claim I'm walking, though :)

[Airmid]

2 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Ah... so true! That thought had crossed my mind, and then I suppressed it in horror. But this show does love its parallels.

At this point, I know I can't credibly claim I'm walking, though :)

In the hands of different writers and a different showrunner I wouldn't be so adverse to it. If the show had shown Lucifer given a shit about anyone other than himself at any point in time, then it would make more sense. 

But with what they have, no. Just no. And honestly I see the whole parallel, two ton anvil waiting to fall on the audience. 

I find if I have low expectations then I don't get disappointed and this is about as low as I can go without them crawling into a ditch and burying themselves. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Ah... so true! That thought had crossed my mind, and then I suppressed it in horror. But this show does love its parallels.

At this point, I know I can't credibly claim I'm walking, though :)

oh gods. That's what is going to happen isn't it?

I mean we already had Rowena and God comparing notes on child rearing, why not Lucifer and Lucifer's True Vessel's mom compare notes too. 

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the end game of this show is for Sam to save Lucifer because what else is left for Sam to do in relation to Lucifer?  He beat him twice already. Said no to being his vessel twice, yet here Sam is with Sproutifer in his face and probably imprinting on Sam right now. For what? Sam to be faced with protecting Lucifer's spawn. Ugh. I HATE THIS SO MUCH.

But you know I kind of blame Jared for this. He said a couple of times at cons that he would like to play a father.  Heh, maybe they gave him what he wanted in a way he didn't expect.

Heh, I was thinking they could have a rift opened by the Bunker a la Torchwood with new things to hunt and then Jack Harkness could pop in to help.

[Idahoforspn]

Jim Michaels tweeted happy Birthday to Mark. Haven't seen an acknowledgement yet.

[Airmid]

5 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

Jim Michaels tweeted happy Birthday to Mark. Haven't seen an acknowledgement yet.

It feels like an olive branch. I'm happy to see it. Seeing that it was within the last hour I wouldn't necessarily expect a response immediately. People be busy. 

[Idahoforspn]

Just now, Airmid said:

It feels like an olive branch. I'm happy to see it. Seeing that it was within the last hour I wouldn't necessarily expect a response immediately. People be busy. 

I was glad to see it to. Mark should be out celebrating...not checking Twitter :-)

[catrox14]

45 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I'm not sure I buy that. Ruth's comments before the episode aired suggests to me she knew.

I would buy she wasn't consulted about it, though. I wouldn't expect the actor to be consulted, nor do I think they've ever done that in the past. They certainly didn't consult Felicia about Charlie's death. Nor do I imagine they consulted Jim Beaver before they decided to kill Bobby.

Most shows at least call ahead of time rather that leave it for them to find out via the script. Especially an actor that's been on the show for a long time.  Someone like Eileen maybe they don't bother with doing that. but a character like Rowena, sure I think they would do a courtesy call at least. No, the actors aren't consulted in the sense of being able to lobby for their character to not be killed off necessarily, although they might LOL.

Jensen went to them and told them to not kill off Charlie. I don't know if that was only after he got the script or what.

Jim Beaver was told ahead of time according to this from TV Guide 

http://www.tvguide.com/news/jim-beaver-supernatural-1041550/

 

Quote

TV Guide Magazine: I'm in Bobby Singer mourning. When did you find out Bobby would be killed off?

Jim Beaver: Right after shooting episode 6, I was home in L.A. and got the call that no actor wants to get where the assistant says, "I have both your executive producers on the line." They said, "We've got bad news, but it's not that bad." They told me what they had planned but they also told me the send off episode was going to be pretty amazing for me. In fact, one of the execs said, "If you weren't on The CW, you'd win an Emmy." It was a little bit of déjà vu because I had something extremely similar happen on Deadwood, where an executive producer pulled me aside and said, "We're going to shoot you in the head." I didn't even get shot on a different side of the head. [Laughs] Pretty much the same entrance wound. Any time I go to work from now on, I'll wear a bandage there so we can skip right to the bullet wound.

Edited May 30, 2017 by catrox14

[Idahoforspn]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Most shows at least call ahead of time rather that leave it for them to find out via the script. Especially an actor that's been on the show for a long time.  Someone like Eileen maybe they don't bother with doing that. but a character like Rowena, sure I think they would do a courtesy call at least. No, the actors aren't consulted in the sense of being able to lobby for their character to not be killed off necessarily. Jensen went to them and told them to not kill off Charlie. I don't know if that was only after he got the script or not.

Jim Beaver was told ahead of time according to this from TV Guide 

 

It will be interesting to find out what's real and what's misinterpretation regarding Ruth.

[Airmid]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But you know I kind of blame Jared for this. He said a couple of times at cons that he would like to play a father.  Heh, maybe they gave him what he wanted in a way he didn't expect.

I blame the writers for thinking is a good idea at all if this is the way they want to go. Having a few one off episodes where Sam has to take care of a young child and failing a lot to make him realize what Dean went through and bring them closer would be fine. Having Sam all lovey with devil spawn is not. 

Why is Sam all okay with even being near the kid of the fallen archangel who tortured him and did horrific things to him?! Why? I get Sam's forgiving but he's not stupid. 

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the end game of this show is for Sam to save Lucifer because what else is left for Sam to do in relation to Lucifer?  He beat him twice already. Said no to being his vessel twice, yet here Sam is with Sproutifer in his face and probably imprinting on Sam right now. For what? Sam to be faced with protecting Lucifer's spawn. Ugh. I HATE THIS SO MUCH.

And this is why season thirteen may be the last for me. Unless of course they tie up all of this in the first three episodes and we get something else, like the French MOL want to combine forces to battle a giant primordial deity sick of the heaven/hell/human stuff and is set to reorder the earth with tentacles.

I could get behind it then. There's FFW for a reason. Sadly though, I don't think we'll get that level of awesome so Sam protecting Sproutifer while attempting fatherhood with no experience or rational or basis for it, Dean mourning Cas while carrying around his coat in his trunk and Mary/Lucifer having parental crisis's is in our future. 

If Sam saves Lucifer so that the devil can understand fatherhood and find redemption I'm buying the season's DVD set just to set it on fire in my back yard.

And wow, I am more bitter than I thought. Sorry about that. I just wish they did something different and they fully surprise me.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Airmid
Because Airmid can't type

[companionenvy]

3 minutes ago, Airmid said:

Why is Sam all okay with even being near the kid of the fallen archangel who tortured him and did horrific things to him?! Why? I get Sam's forgiving but he's not stupid. 

I don't actually mind this, because the whole idea of TFW is that people can make their own choices, no matter what destiny -- let alone biology -- would dictate. 

Sam tolerating being around Lucifer himself is another story. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Airmid said:

f Sam saves Lucifer so that the devil can understand fatherhood and find redemption I'm buying the season's DVD set just to set it on fire in my back yard.

This legit made me guffaw. I'm still laughing. That's great.LOLOL

[DittyDotDot]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Most shows at least call ahead of time rather that leave it for them to find out via the script. Especially an actor that's been on the show for a long time.  Someone like Eileen maybe they don't bother with doing that. but a character like Rowena, sure I think they would do a courtesy call at least.

Yes, as I said, I believe Ruth was given this courtesy based on her comments before the episode aired. At this point, the comment that was posted was rumor and innuendo and we don't know what it was Ruth actually said.

Edited May 30, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Airmid]

2 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

I don't actually mind this, because the whole idea of TFW is that people can make their own choices, no matter what destiny -- let alone biology -- would dictate. 

Actually, you're right. Although I would see Sam as being apprehensive because it's still Lucifer's kid in the end, it is his personality to see if something is evil before stabbing it. 

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This legit made me guffaw. I'm still laughing. That's great.LOLOL

Glad I could add some levity. :)

Honestly, I would be so disappointed at that point that setting it on fire would make me feel way better. One less copy in the world.

[catrox14]

Just now, DittyDotDot said:

Yes, as I said, I believe Ruth was given this courtesy based on her comments before the episode aired. At this point, the comment that was posted was rumor and innuendo and we don't know what it was Ruth actually said.

I must have misunderstood what you were saying here:

I thought you were saying that you didn't think actors were typically consulted ahead of time. I'm confused.

 

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

I'm not sure I buy that. Ruth's comments before the episode aired suggests to me she knew.

I would buy she wasn't consulted about it, though. I wouldn't expect the actor to be consulted, nor do I think they've ever done that in the past. They certainly didn't consult Felicia about Charlie's death. Nor do I imagine they consulted Jim Beaver before they decided to kill Bobby.

[DittyDotDot]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I must have misunderstood what you were saying here:

I thought you were saying that you didn't think actors were typically consulted ahead of time. I'm confused.

 

For clarity:

The original comment said they had heard from some unknown source that Ruth said she was not consulted about Rowena's death nor was she told they killed her before the episode aired.

I said I didn't buy that she didn't know Rowena got killed before the episode aired due to her comments before the episode aired. Meaning, I believe someone told Ruth they were killing Rowena in the finale and maybe also provided her with a script since she seemed to know a lot of shit was still going to hit the fan in the finale based on her comments before the episode aired.

Then I further went on to say that I wouldn't expect them to consult Ruth on whether or not to kill Rowena because I don't think that's something actors generally get consulted on.

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, Airmid said:

Actually, you're right. Although I would see Sam as being apprehensive because it's still Lucifer's kid in the end, it is his personality to see if something is evil before stabbing it. 

Is it wrong that on one hand, I'm fine if they have Sam go full on Dark Side trying to raise Satan's Spawn?

But really I don't want Sam to finally get anything about Dean's parenting. I'm actually really fucking pissed about why they even bothered with mentioning Dean's quasi parenting of Sam when it was only to further Sam's story. Nothing in the narrative about how much it screwed Dean's life, but that is really a bitterness thread post.

 

4 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

For clarity:

The original comment said they had heard from some unknown source that Ruth said she was not consulted about Rowena's death nor was she told they killed her before the episode aired.

I said I didn't buy that she didn't know Rowena got killed before the episode aired due to her comments before the episode aired. Meaning, I believe someone told Ruth they were killing Rowena in the finale and maybe also provided her with a script since she seemed to know a lot of shit was still going to hit the fan in the finale based on her comments before the episode aired.

Then I further went on to say that I wouldn't expect them to consult Ruth on whether or not to kill Rowena because I don't think that's something actors generally get consulted on.

I guess that's where my brain is having a lockdown LOL.

What do you mean by consulting with them about about their characters demise? I guess to me, given Jim Beaver's comments they do consult with them in some way? Or are we talking about different things? Sorry, not trying to be dense.

Edited May 30, 2017 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

What do you mean by consulting with them about about their characters demise? I guess to me, given Jim Beaver's comments they do consult with them in some way? Or are we talking about different things? Sorry, not trying to be dense.

Consult: seek information or advice from (someone with expertise in a particular area).

For me, consulting implies they asked the actor's opinion on whether or not to kill the character. They didn't call Jim Beaver and say, "Well, we're thinking of killing Bobby, what do think we should do." The decision was already made, they were just calling as a courtesy to let know what to expect. Which, I would imagine they did with Ruth too.

Edited May 30, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Airmid]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But really I don't want Sam to finally get anything about Dean's parenting. I'm actually really fucking pissed about why they even bothered with mentioning Dean's quasi parenting of Sam when it was only to further Sam's story. Nothing in the narrative about how much it screwed Dean's life, but that is really a bitterness thread post.

I won't mind it if, if they actually make it so Sam understands what Dean went through to give him as much normal as possible and it makes Sam forgive and accept his brother more. 

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Is it wrong that on one hand, I'm fine if they have Sam go full on Dark Side trying to raise Satan's Spawn?

Heh, I almost kind of want the Temptation of Sam. Doing things the easy way, taking out things with his foster child and starting to embrace what Lucifer tried to make him into years ago. Dean helping to steady and pull him back. Them both referencing things they have been through, what some experiences almost turned them into and in the end redeeming Lucifer through his kid by making Sproutifer understand what humanity is and that it's a part of him too.

Then Luci gets put back in the box never to be mentioned again. And Mary, uh, she isn't in the way? Learns to love her kids too? Something...

Do I trust the writers to give us any of that? Sadly no, I think it's going to be a plot without nuances and heavy with anvils waiting to fall so that us, the brain dead viewers, really get the message. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Consult: seek information or advice from (someone with expertise in a particular area).

For me, consulting implies they asked the actor's opinion on whether or not to kill the character. They didn't call Jim Beaver and say, "Well, we're thinking of killing Bobby, what do think we should do." The decision was already made, they were just calling as a courtesy to let know what to expect. Which, I would imagine they did with Ruth too.

Okay.

I was thinking of consulting as in advising someone of some decision vs seeking guidance to make a decision.

So I think we are actually saying the same thing here in the end.

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Airmid said:

won't mind it if, if they actually make it so Sam understands what Dean went through to give him as much normal as possible and it makes Sam forgive and accept his brother more. 

See I don't want that either because what does Dean need to be forgiven for that Sam hasn't already forgiven him for? Nothing that I can think of, unless he's holding on to hatred that we don't know about.

I want Dean to tell Mary exactly what HE lost. I could live with Sam telling Mary what Dean lost as long as it stays about Dean. I It's like Sam could thank Dean but hasn't Sam already done that? I swear he did in s10. But maybe I've confused it.

Oh but wait, Mary is in the other dimension...so he can't! Sigh.

[auntvi]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Heh, I was thinking they could have a rift opened by the Bunker a la Torchwood with new things to hunt and then Jack Harkness could pop in to help.

Now, that I agree with you on. ;)