Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

40 minutes ago, Diane said:

That's a blanket statement, I would also think a lot of fan thought it was a good story and interesting for the character. 

It would be a blanket statement if I said ALL fans, which I didn't. I do stand by "a lot" which again isn't all or even most. 

I've written here many times  about demon!Dean so I'm not speaking of it from a bitter Dean girl perspective in the least. I ended up loving Demon!Dean.  I'm speaking from the perspective of a person that frequented a few forums back in 2014 (not just here) when 9.23 aired. I watched reaction videos on the web, read comments sections from places other than here, listened to several podcasts who have very different takes on the show than me. I don't think it's incorrect or unfair of me to say 9.23 was a divisive episode in fandom.

I stand by my comment that what showrunners, cast and production think makes a great episode  =/= what all viewers think about it in the end. At times, showrunners don't think they put their best foot forward with an episode and turns out a lot of viewers love it. That doesn't go for just this show either. I see it with many other shows. There can be big disconnects between showrunners and viewers as to what each thinks is great.

Edited May 17, 2017 by catrox14

[ahrtee]

12 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Any of the characters who are in the Empty are going to have to die to get there, right? So I think we're going to see a lot of deaths.

We don't really know that, do we?  After all, Dean and Cas wound up in Purgatory in their own bodies, and Sam strolled through both Purgatory and Hell while still alive.  The rules depend on what the writers want.

[catrox14]

Just now, ahrtee said:

We don't really know that, do we?  After all, Dean and Cas wound up in Purgatory in their own bodies, and Sam strolled through both Purgatory and Hell while still alive.  The rules depend on what the writers want.

I think the implication from Billie is that the Empty was reserved for dead people. She said she couldn't take them until they died.

[ahrtee]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I think the implication from Billie is that the Empty was reserved for dead people. She said she couldn't take them until they died.

She was a reaper.  They can't "take" living people anywhere (she even said she couldn't kill them--they had to be dead before she could reap them).  It doesn't mean someone else can't send them there.  Purgatory was only supposed to be for monsters.

Edited May 17, 2017 by ahrtee

[rue721]

Sure, they could theoretically get there without dying. But then what would the Big Shocking Finale Moment!!!1! be? ;)

So I think they're probably going to die.

Of course, we don't even know if they're really going to wind up in the Empty, let alone how they might get there.

Edited May 17, 2017 by rue721

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

She was a reaper.  They can't "take" living people anywhere (she even said she couldn't kill them--they had to be dead before she could reap them).  It doesn't mean someone else can't send them there.  

I know. That's why I said, she couldn't do it until they died.  It's always seemed to me that the Empty is the place that no living humans could go to because it's basically the last stop for a dead human and their soul that isn't literal oblivion. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by catrox14

[ahrtee]

I always wondered where Death was going to send MoC Dean, where he would be alone for eternity and couldn't hurt anyone.  When Billie mentioned the Empty, I thought that was what Death had been talking about.  But Dean was still alive, no longer a demon, and couldn't be killed (and it was implied that Sam would be able to find him, which is why Sam had to die, too.)  

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I always wondered where Death was going to send MoC Dean, where he would be alone for eternity and couldn't hurt anyone.  When Billie mentioned the Empty, I thought that was what Death had been talking about.  But Dean was still alive, no longer a demon, and couldn't be killed (and it was implied that Sam would be able to find him, which is why Sam had to die, too.)  

I thought it was the Empty as well. I could see Death making an exception for Dean since he was basically immortal and he had to continue to bear the Mark to keep the Darkness locked away. Sam would have been locked in Heaven and Dean in the Empty. Maybe once Bobby pulled a jailbreak and Dean killed Death, Billie was like "Nope, you boys are not going to Heaven because you'll just get out again at some point. To the Empty you will go when you die".

Edited May 17, 2017 by catrox14

[Geordiegirl1967]

Someone who talked to the Js at AHBL in their M&G just shared this snippet

https://twitter.com/KG_Supernatural/status/864778698469154820

Quote

Jensen said there is a scene in ep 22 that is even more emotional and nostalgic than that one (meaning the initial carving scene). It was one of those scenes where they went to that emotional place unexpectedly. After filming he and Jared did one of their fist bumps because they knew it was good

They seem really enthused by ep 22 but not so much by ep 23 which is interesting. But then they love the eps where the brothers connect emotionally e.g. Baby, Red Meat. Maybe shouldn't read anything into that about the last ep? And yet I am still worried about where they are going to go with it.

The publicity person at the CW also tweeted a while back (I posted it here at the time) about how much she loved ep22, how she cried etc. Sounds like a good one.

[DittyDotDot]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think the implication from Billie is that the Empty was reserved for dead people. She said she couldn't take them until they died.

I think the implication from Billie was that she followed the rules, but as we've seen not everyone does follow the rules. So, I don't discount them being sent to the Empty alive by someone who doesn't follow the rules. 

I'm going back to my spec from last season about the Empty: I was thinking it was maybe the place ghosts go after they "burn out," and where angels and demons go when they "die." I think the Empty might be inhabited by depowered beings. So, it could be Yellow Eyes, Dagon or Ramiel. Or, Zachariah, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel...and on and on. I still think it likely to be some form of John or even some form of Dean, but it could be interesting if it the Empty turns out to be full of previous enemies. Dabb did say the Winchesters will find themselves surrounded by enemies, after all.

[CluelessDrifter]

20 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think the implication from Billie was that she followed the rules, but as we've seen not everyone does follow the rules. So, I don't discount them being sent to the Empty alive by someone who doesn't follow the rules. 

I'm going back to my spec from last season about the Empty: I was thinking it was maybe the place ghosts go after they "burn out," and where angels and demons go when they "die." I think the Empty might be inhabited by depowered beings. So, it could be Yellow Eyes, Dagon or Ramiel. Or, Zachariah, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel...and on and on. I still think it likely to be some form of John or even some form of Dean, but it could be interesting if it the Empty turns out to be full of previous enemies. Dabb did say the Winchesters will find themselves surrounded by enemies, after all.

If it is the Empty, and they are sent there as opposed to it just being a vision of the world's future or their future, maybe there'll be some kind of time jump.  So, let's say they're in the Empty and next season we follow their journey on getting out of there for the next few episodes, but when they come back to the normal plane of existence, they've really been gone long enough for the nephilim to have aged into an adult.  It'd be a way to make it an adult faster than aging it up throughout the season the way the show did with Amara.  Maybe that's why there was talk about their legacy and what they'll leave behind.  For all intents and purposes, they will be gone for years, so they'll see the impact that both of them being gone at the same time has on the world.  We'll finally follow them on their journey on the other side instead of seeing them come back from wherever they've been the way we did Hell/the cage/Purgatory (admittedly with some flashbacks).  I'm just not sure what that means for Jody and the others who will be left behind.  I guess it depends on how long the writers decide it will take for a nephilim to age.  If it's a couple of years, not too much has to change.

Edited May 17, 2017 by CluelessDrifter
clarification

[DittyDotDot]

14 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

If it is the Empty, and they are sent there as opposed to it just being a vision of the world's future or their future, maybe there'll be some kind of time jump.  So, let's say they're in the Empty and next season we follow their journey on getting out of there for the next few episodes, but when they come back to the normal plane of existence, they've really been gone long enough for the nephilim to have aged into an adult.  It'd be a way to make it an adult faster than aging it up throughout the season the way the show did with Amara.  Maybe that's why there was talk about their legacy and what they'll leave behind.  For all intents and purposes, they will be gone for years, so they'll see the impact that both of them being gone at the same time has on the world.  We'll finally follow them on their journey on the other side instead of seeing them come back from wherever they've been the way we did Hell/the cage/Purgatory (admittedly with some flashbacks).  I'm just not sure what that means for Jody and the others who will be left behind.  I guess it depends on how long the writers decide it will take for a nephilim to age.  If it's a couple of years, not too much has to change.

That would be fascinating, but I kinda hope they don't go with the time jump. The show doesn't have a good track record of staying consistent with their time jumps which can make it frustrating for this viewer.

I like the idea that the world would be changed by their absence though and it would be interesting to see people like Jodi and Claire try to step up and fill the gap. Does line up with what Singer was saying they were teasing for S13 in Ladies Drink Free.

Plus, it could be a vehicle to take a bit of a stroll down memory lane and revisit some characters we've lost. That's one thing I was disappointed they didn't do with Purgatory. 

[CluelessDrifter]

3 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

That would be fascinating, but I kinda hope they don't go with the time jump. The show doesn't have a good track record of staying consistent with their time jumps which can make it frustrating for this viewer.

I like the idea that the world would be changed by their absence though and it would be interesting to see people like Jodi and Claire try to step up and fill the gap. Does line up with what Singer was saying they were teasing for S13 in Ladies Drink Free.

Plus, it could be a vehicle to take a bit of a stroll down memory lane and revisit some characters we've lost. That's one thing I was disappointed they didn't do with Purgatory. 

I don't think it would be a time jump in a conventional sense.  It'd be more like we follow them on their journey out of the Empty for the first couple of episodes, and then when they get out, we find out it's a few years later.  Typically, I really don't like time jumps either, but I don't think that quite counts as one.  I'm not sure what you'd call it.

ETA: I was also disappointed that Dean didn't run into more monsters he's killed over the years in Purgatory.

Edited May 17, 2017 by CluelessDrifter

[DittyDotDot]

13 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

I don't think it would be a time jump in a conventional sense.  It'd be more like we follow them on their journey out of the Empty for the first couple of episodes, and then when they get out, we find out it's a few years later.  Typically, I really don't like time jumps either, but I don't think that quite counts as one.  I'm not sure what you'd call it.

I understood what you meant, but the show doesn't like to keep consistent with their time jumps. For instance, in S6 they jumped forward a year, but after a couple episodes they decided it was too difficult for them to keep track of and what started out as 2011 was 2010. They did the same thing in S8 when they jumped forward a year. I find it frustrating trying to keep track of how many years have passed when they jump forward, but then ignore the jumping forward. And, jumping forward years would be even worse to try and keep straight.

[Demented Daisy]

I hate time jumps.  That being said, TVLine still has one on its list that hasn't been filled in....

[CluelessDrifter]

7 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I understood what you meant, but the show doesn't like to keep consistent with their time jumps. For instance, in S6 they jumped forward a year, but after a couple episodes they decided it was too difficult for them to keep track of and what started out as 2011 was 2010. They did the same thing in S8 when they jumped forward a year. I find it frustrating trying to keep track of how many years have passed when they jump forward, but then ignore the jumping forward. And, jumping forward years would be even worse to try and keep straight.

Oh yeah, I know what you mean.  Generally, I tend to think that the episodes we watch don't take place over a year with the exception of the first 4 or 5 seasons.  For instance, some episodes are meant to be the next day or a couple of days later, and we're only getting snapshots of important days in their life, i.e. cases, instead of all the cases they do in a year, which means that what we're watching could actually be a few months out of the year, and then when they're gone for a year, the episodes at the start of the next season are bunched up the same way, so a full year isn't really added or lost.  It's how I keep it straight.  Not sure how they'd do it if they're gone for a couple of years though.

Edited May 17, 2017 by CluelessDrifter

[catrox14]

If it is a time jump, maybe it will be to make up for the two years they are lagging now.  That's enough time for the world to go to shit pretty fast without them.

[gonzosgirrl]

16 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

I hate time jumps.  That being said, TVLine still has one on its list that hasn't been filled in....

In Clueless's scenario, the time jump wouldn't be revealed until they make it back to our world, so would TVLine include that in their May Sweeps list?

I wonder how they could even make The Empty interesting. Billie implied it was just that - empty, a void. Presumably, monsters go to Purgatory, humans go to the void, so what would be the danger there? Do they go insane? I'm not sure how they could make just finding a way out compelling enough for multiple episodes if there is no danger in being there. ETA: Unless they are separated and one is trying to rescue the other.

Edited May 17, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[DittyDotDot]

1 minute ago, CluelessDrifter said:

Oh yeah, I know what you mean.  Generally, I tend to think that the episodes we watch don't take place over a year with the exception of the first 4 or 5 seasons.  For instance, some episodes are meant to be the next day or a couple of days later, and we're only getting snapshots of important days in their life, i.e. cases, instead of all the cases they do in a year, which means that what we're watching could actually be a few months out of the year, and then when they're gone for a year, the episodes the next season are bunched up the same, so a full year isn't really added or lost.  It's how I keep it straight.  Not sure how they'd do it if they're gone for a couple of years though.

If it wasn't for the fact that they show and state dates quite frequently, I would go with that too. But, they do. I mean, just recently Sam stated the date for the Devil's baby's birth was May 18th--the day of the finale. I rolled my eyes so hard at that! I mean, it was humorous when they did that sort of thing with the newspaper when Dean got out of Hell in S4 or back in S5 with Lucifer basically stating the date Sam would say "yes" but, seven years later...I think I'm over it.

Anyhoo, it's just a frustration of mine. If you're going to jump forward because you don't want to deal with the mess you created, I think you should at least not create another mess by ignoring the jump forward. I'm sure it doesn't bother most other people though.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

11 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

The mystery man could be just that...a mystery.  Maybe it's someone we haven't met yet.  Just because Cas appears to be familiar with the person doesn't mean that we will necessarily know who it is.  

Just throwing this out there: perhaps the Mystery Man with the guns and the person to whom Cas says "You?" are not the same person?

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

If it is a time jump, maybe it will be to make up for the two years they are lagging now.  That's enough time for the world to go to shit pretty fast without them.

Do you know what the last firm date we saw on the show was? (ie, a calendar or newspaper with a date, or mentioned in dialogue) ETA: Sam mentioned May 18th as Sproutifer's due date, but no mention of a year.

Edited May 17, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[Demented Daisy]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

In Clueless's scenario, the time jump wouldn't be revealed until they make it back to our world, so would TVLine include that in their May Sweeps list?

I didn't mention Clueless's scenario.  Why couldn't they do a time jump in the season finale?

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Demented Daisy said:

I didn't mention Clueless's scenario.  Why couldn't they do a time jump in the season finale?

Sorry, that was the conversation I was following - I incorrectly assumed you were as well. No reason that couldn't happen with a different scenario.

[Demented Daisy]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sorry, that was the conversation I was following - I incorrectly assumed you were as well.

Hi, I'm Demented Daisy.  If I am speaking about a certain conversation or line of thought or scenario, I will quote it.  Thank you.  :-)

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Do you know what the last firm date we saw on the show was? (ie, a calendar or newspaper with a date, or mentioned in dialogue)

Sam states the date for the Devil baby's birth should be May 18, 2017 in The Future. Other than that I haven't been paying attention to onscreen calendars and such, but the show generally takes place in our time. I mean, the first episode of the season is usually timed to be taking place the day of the premiere. They usually follow the hiatuses the same too. For instance, they were in the black site for six weeks because the show was on hiatus for six weeks. And, the finale events are usually timed to be in mid-May. I can't think of a season where that wasn't the case.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Demented Daisy said:

Hi, I'm Demented Daisy.  If I am speaking about a certain conversation or line of thought or scenario, I will quote it.  Thank you.  :-)

Duly noted. :)

[catrox14]

59 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Do you know what the last firm date we saw on the show was? (ie, a calendar or newspaper with a date, or mentioned in dialogue)

Sam mentioned May 18 but not a year. Prior to that there were Obama references in Time after Time in 2012 and then again in Paper Moon in 2014 which aired in October 2014. But they had fictional President Jeff  in LOTUS,  just one of many reasons why that episode should have never seen the light of day, given they make real world references with Obama as President.

LOTUS was supposedly happening in December 2016 but everything was green in Indiana where that episode took place and Obama was still President when LOTUS aired in December 2016, so time is already wonky if real world references to Obama count.  If President Jeff is post-Obama and they still inaugurate Presidents n January then President Jeff couldn't have been President in December 2016 unless something happened to Obama which they never said was the case.

Sooooo.... my head canon is that President Jeff was inaugurated in January 2017, Sproutifer was conceived in December 2017 will be born on May 18 , 2018.  When the the show comes back in October 2017 for us, they could be in the Empty for not quite a year. Do 3 episodes with them in the Empty trying to get out, they get out and it's now November 2019 for them and November 2017 for us. Two years made up. I think...

I have a headache now.

Edited May 17, 2017 by catrox14
expanded on time differences and why President Jeff is stupid and the whole Sproutifer SL is stupid because time and real world stuff

[DittyDotDot]

22 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

LOTUS was supposedly happening in December 2016 but everything was green in Indiana where that episode took place and Obama was still President when LOTUS aired in December 2016, so time is already wonky if real world references to Obama count.  If President Jeff is post-Obama and they still inaugurate Presidents n January then President Jeff couldn't have been President in December 2016 unless something happened to Obama which they never said was the case.

I meant the show is happening at the same time as our universe, not in the same universe.

ETA: According to supernaturalwiki.com, the timeline for The Future was April, 2017. I'm guessing there was something onscreen that had the year because if it's vague in the episode they usually don't fill in the timeline: http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=12.19_The_Future

Edited May 17, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[ILoveReading]

Looking at Ausiellos score card there are a whole bunch of possible fatalities and 5 fatalites. 

I figure Ketch and Kelly are two of those, and hopefully Lucifer.

If they did a time jump its possible that whatever realm they are in moves slower than the real world (kind of like hell). So more time passes in the real world.   I think thinking about that scene where Dean's leg is all torn up (at least I'm pretty sure its him).    I wonder if he is the only one who makes it back and the rest of the team are either dead or missing in the alternate world.    He comes back to the bunker and then we see him collapse and we're left wondering his fate.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I meant the show is happening at the same time as our universe, not in the same universe.

I was just trying to answer Gonzosgirrl's question about time references. Then I expanded on how they could get to a time jump.

I legitimately don't know why Superwiki bothers with year references anymore because  the timeline is already wonky because of Dean being in Purgatory for a year and the show even put that on the screen as 'One Year Later".

So the show should be at minimum taking place in May 2018. LOL . This show...sometimes...

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I was just trying to answer Gonzosgirrl's question about time references. Then I expanded on how they could get to a time jump.

I legitimately don't know why Superwiki bothers with year references anymore because  the timeline is already wonky because of Dean being in Purgatory for a year and the show even put that on the screen as 'One Year Later".

So the show should be at minimum taking place in May 2018. LOL . This show...sometimes...

That's been my whole point, it should be but the show clearly ignores the time jumps by showing calendars and newspapers and such on screen showing the year. Superwiki usually only fills in the timeline part when there is some onscreen reference stating the date.

[Wayward Son]

Former writer Robbie Thompson has addressed this before in an unofficial talk with a fan. According to him the dates given on newspapers etc is down to a production issue rather than a writing one.

 

Quote

Timelines

Robbie was well aware that officially at any given moment SPN is "somewhere between 18-22 months in the furture" - him telling me that warmed the cookies of my heart, because he took it the step further to narrow it down to months! I always just say "two years" but he had it more exact with the months and that's just awesome. He said he'd often write it as the intro to his scripts "The year is 2018..." but on the other hand, characters saying the year never came up, and when it came down to it, it was production who continued their tradition of putting the current date on any props/texts/computers etc, and then they WOULDN'T be in the future. 

Robbie said that from a fan point of view, it really does bug him that they messed up the timeline, because he's that kind of fan too - the one who likes the universes to follow a strict internal logic and time frame. From a writer's point of view though, he was kind of glad that it didn't officially matter, because it would have been a constraint on the writing, and he hates having constraints on his writing.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DittyDotDot]

5 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Former writer Robbie Thompson has addressed this before in an unofficial talk with a fan. According to him the dates given on newspapers etc is down to a production issue rather than a writing one.

I'm not saying it's the fault of the writing, but a fail for the show in general. So, since they can't seem to stay consistent with it, I'd rather they not do it at all. 

[catrox14]

23 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

That's been my whole point, it should be but the show clearly ignores the time jumps by showing calendars and newspapers and such on screen showing the year. Superwiki usually only fills in the timeline part when there is some onscreen reference stating the date.

I'm not sure where our wires have gotten crossed in this conversation.

I was just trying to find a way that a time jump would work to set the time in the show to be proper given the on screen time jumps that did happen.

I guess really it would be more of a course correction of the time line rather than a time jump per se.

Edited May 17, 2017 by catrox14
it's all wibbley wobbley timey wimey....stuff

[Jonesy]

I'm thinking that maybe what Misha doesn't want to face at next convention, what Ruth says will ruffle feathers and what Kim says will be lots and lots of feelings but something cool may come next year--maybe it's something that has pissed off fans before...DEATH OF WOMEN.  Especially with Eileen just killed without much fanfare.

 

I can see Misha not wanting to deal with the fallout at the next Con if those who die are only females...say Mary and Rowena.  That would certainly ruffle feathers.  Which could also fit in with what Kim said when implied some negative reactions coming...but then quickly added something COOL could be coming next year--for example if they are beginning to get the female orientated WAYWARD GIRLS started which she may be implying at least helps from the ONLY female deaths coming up.  Just speculation.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Jakes

[SueB]

We could have a time differential -- for example, like Hell, you spend years in The Empty for every month on Earth.  

When I first started thinking Time Jump, I thought perhaps Cas hid Kelly in the past -- but he would have needed wings to do that --- but really, isn't that a SMART way to avoid detection.  Go hide out in the past before technology leaves a big footprint.  But be sure and have indoor plumbing & electricity, because SERIOUSLY.  However, since everyone seems to show up at their house, I'm not sure that time differential is a viable theory.  

[Geordiegirl1967]

25 minutes ago, Jakes said:

I can see Misha not wanting to deal with the fallout at the next Con if those who die are only females...say Mary and Rowena.  That would certainly ruffle feathers. 

Any more than usual though? There was a huge outcry over Charlie and I don't recall Misha worrying about that. The show is always killing off popular characters;male and female. It is par for the course and not a reason for Misha to be worried. Also neither Mary nor Rowena are IMO as popular as Charlie.

When I heard he had said that my first thought was that it must be to do with what happens to Cas. 

11 minutes ago, SueB said:

I thought perhaps Cas hid Kelly in the past -- but he would have needed wings to do that --- but really, isn't that a SMART way to avoid detection.

I was going to say he didn't have his wings when he sent Dean to the WWII sub, but of course that was Luci-Cas. Maybe Luci does that because he knows Cas can't follow them?

[Jonesy]

Actually since Charlie the killing of females on SPN has been a big meme for some and I've seen the J's, Misha and others on the defensive over that...and I can see it being a headache. That said this is pure spec.  But if it happens you heard it here first! 

 

We all are just guessing at this point.  Makes it kinda interesting.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Jakes

[Demented Daisy]

http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/17/supernatural-season-12-finale-preview-andrew-dabb/amp/

Quote

“We’re wrapping a lot of things up and certain plot lines will be ended this season — some forever and some temporarily — but also, that allows us to build up steam going into season 13,” Dabb says. “Coming out of the finale, people will have a pretty good idea of where things are going.”

[catrox14]

41 minutes ago, SueB said:

We could have a time differential -- for example, like Hell, you spend years in The Empty for every month on Earth.  

When I first started thinking Time Jump, I thought perhaps Cas hid Kelly in the past -- but he would have needed wings to do that --- but really, isn't that a SMART way to avoid detection.  Go hide out in the past before technology leaves a big footprint.  But be sure and have indoor plumbing & electricity, because SERIOUSLY.  However, since everyone seems to show up at their house, I'm not sure that time differential is a viable theory.  

This could work if the house is in a pocket universe all by itself.

Maybe the power the nephilim put into Cas to kill Dagon gives him the power to create a pocket universe or at least open a portal to a pocket universe

Edited May 17, 2017 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

While I think they would have no qualms about killing off (more) female characters, I don`t believe they`d off Rowena offscreen for example. The character has been around so much, she would earn an onscreen death at this point.

IMO Cas is the likeliest candidate for something happens to him. Not necessarily death but something. Unless they "kill" Cas and immediately have his vessel house some other entity to keep Misha around, any sort of death will have no meaning if people know the actor hasn`t left the show. They could pull a Jon Snow but that would only work until June or so when the begin shooting again. 

[Jonesy]

9 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/17/supernatural-season-12-finale-preview-andrew-dabb/amp/

They are wrapping up the BMOL and Lucifer and his baby will return.  And boys will probably become general and start up American Men of Letters again...imo.

8 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

While I think they would have no qualms about killing off (more) female characters, I don`t believe they`d off Rowena offscreen for example. The character has been around so much, she would earn an onscreen death at this point.

IMO Cas is the likeliest candidate for something happens to him. Not necessarily death but something. Unless they "kill" Cas and immediately have his vessel house some other entity to keep Misha around, any sort of death will have no meaning if people know the actor hasn`t left the show. They could pull a Jon Snow but that would only work until June or so when the begin shooting again. 

Well doesn't have to be Rowena.  I think Mary though is much more likely to die than Cas which I really don't see myself.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Jakes

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

IMO Cas is the likeliest candidate for something happens to him. Not necessarily death but something. Unless they "kill" Cas and immediately have his vessel house some other entity to keep Misha around, any sort of death will have no meaning if people know the actor hasn`t left the show. They could pull a Jon Snow but that would only work until June or so when the begin shooting again. 

I'm going out on a limb and say we could get a female vessel for Cas, although I don't know how that would work since Cas is pretty much his own vessel, unless that "cosmic consequence" is that Cas is no longer his own vessel now. 

[ILoveReading]

Unless, Baby Lucifer does something to Cas that makes him kill Sam and/or Dean. 

[Diane]

Now that could be interesting!

[Jonesy]

Final predictions on who dies and who is mystery person?

 

I say Mary dies and mystery person is Bobby.  What do you predict?

[Demented Daisy]

In this BuddyTV article (which covers a lot of what we've covered), they mention something a little strange :

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As per the Shaving People Punting Things teaser, everyone's lives are on the line. As we wait for Crowley (Mark Sheppard) to make his majestic resurrection, Castiel (Misha Collins) will square off with a shocking (and unseen) assailant, the Winchester bros. will battle their way out of the bunker, and everyone will have to confront Mary's (Samantha Smith) future as a Men of Letter's automaton.

That's an interesting interpretation.  I went back to rewatch, in case I missed something and I was distracted.  There's been a lot of focus on the mystery man's midsection, but has anyone noticed his walk?  

Story-wise, my money is still on Crowley, but that doesn't look like Mark Sheppard's walk to me.  It looks more like DJ Qualls.  I'll have to do some more research to be sure, though....

[catrox14]

33 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Any more than usual though? There was a huge outcry over Charlie and I don't recall Misha worrying about that. The show is always killing off popular characters;male and female. It is par for the course and not a reason for Misha to be worried. Also neither Mary nor Rowena are IMO as popular as Charlie.

Misha and Jensen were both pretty vocal about their opposition to Charlie's death at JIBcon IIRC along with backing away from the ComicCon panel table and letting Carver swing in the wind about Charlie.

Maybe he is not particularly keen on having to deal with a similar situation based on whatever is going to happen. 

[Aeryn13]

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I think Mary though is much more likely to die than Cas 

Permanent death, I agree. Right now I give 50/50 odds on Mary. But I don`t know if they would expect Mary`s death to be this amazing blow to the fandom. If the character had played out differently and was now at least as beloved previously or more, than yes, fridging her again would probably create a shockwave of outrage. I`m not sure any previous show has fridged the same female character TWICE in its run so that would be precedent. But as things stand right now, it would probably be a minor concussive blow instead. I believe Rowena in her own right is more liked right now.

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Maybe he is not particularly keen on having to deal with a similar situation based on whatever is going to happen. 

On the other hand Jared said he really liked where it went in the Finale. Which may relate to something else, a possible time jump or restarting the American BMOL or stuff like that. But Misha and Ruth apparently believe whatever the divisive thing is has the potential to overshadow everything.  

As for general deaths left in the Finale:  Lucifer (possibly), Mary (possibly), Ketch (highly likely), Lady Deadeyes (not unlikely), the old woman and a few hunters. Not sure the latter would count for the scorecard, probably not.    

But a couple of other shows still have to air their Finales and I`m pretty sure they have some big upcoming deaths. Heck, they could fill all the remaining slots. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

Man, I will be so pissed off if Metadouche is back.  But I suppose he could be the Mystery Figure based on his physique. I don't think it's Garth because DJ is pretty slender. I was wondering for a minute if it could be Ghuck. But I don't think Rob has a paunch like that. Gabriel is still an option. 

Wait, what about Ash??? I haven't seen Chad Lundberg lately. Is he still slender? That would be kind of awesome if it was Ash and it would parallel DSotM when he saved the boys in Heaven. Hmmmmm

Edited May 17, 2017 by catrox14