Spoilers With Speculation

[SueB]

Oh Garth, is that a red shirt you're wearing? It looks like it to me.  Is that you on the slab? Ignominious end.  I don't like it. 

I slowed down to .25 speed and still can't tell if it's Toni or Eileen. Lips look think like Toni's and hair looks light. That's definitely Eileen in the woods. I REALLY don't want her to die.  Doesn't look good for her.

Mary gets out the restraints, that's good. 

Can't wait til next week!

[auntvi]

The guy getting shot was in a black suit. I think he was standing next to Ketch shooting in the bunker a second before. Someone is cowering behind Sam while he's shooting, Mary I hope. It would be fun if it's Lady GettheFuckOuttaHere running through the woods.

[goldy]

2 hours ago, Boopsahoy said:

Was that Dean getting shot in the preview???

It looked like one of the BMOL to me.

 

1 hour ago, auntvi said:

 Someone is cowering behind Sam while he's shooting, Mary I hope. 

I don't know, the way he's holding her is pretty aggressive, holding her by the neck. Not the way that you would hold someone you care about. This is why I think its Toni.

[Dobian]

One thing I don't like about this season is they have not one, but two major story arcs going with BMOL and Castiel/Kelly, which is going to make the final three episodes really crowded.

[Aeryn13]

Since I think the figure is clad in black pantsuit, I`m nearly 98 % right now it`s Lady Deadeyes. And the grip is more like you hold onto a hostage as a shield. 

[goldy]

Season 12, Episode 21 — “There’s Something About Mary” - Promotional Photos:

http://tvline.com/gallery/supernatural-season-12-photos/

Edited May 5, 2017 by goldy

[catrox14]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Since I think the figure is clad in black pantsuit, I`m nearly 98 % right now it`s Lady Deadeyes. And the grip is more like you hold onto a hostage as a shield. 

Ohhhh I didn't think about that.  That could be. I think you are correct that it is Lady Deadeyes.

This makes me feel a lot worse about the prospects of Eileen surviving :( .

[Wayward Son]

5 hours ago, Dobian said:

One thing I don't like about this season is they have not one, but two major story arcs going with BMOL and Castiel/Kelly, which is going to make the final three episodes really crowded.

I think the idea behind it is that there is one storyline for the Winchesters and one for the regulars. IMO the BMoL stuff is the Winchester's storyline, and I include Mary in that! While the Lucifer and Crowley storyline is primarily for Castiel and Crowley. I'm not saying the brothers are completely uninvolved, but the plots been more driven by Crowley and Cas. For instance it was them hunting Lucifer on and off screen for the first half of the season. It is now Crowley with Lucifer and Castiel with the nephilim. 

I think it's something similar to S9. The Mark of Cain stuff was primarily about the brothers in particular Dean. While the Metatron stuff was mainly Castiel's. Of course the brothers are brought back into it when Metatron stabs Dean, but prior to that it was very much Cas' storyline IMO.

@Dobian sorry if you saw this post before I added my comment. I accidentally clicked the post button haha

Edited May 5, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

So as per the promo pics, we got ourselves a hostage exchange maybe? The brothers are driving somewhere with Lady Deadeyes. And yup, now I can see how she is dressed, that is 100 % her Sam is holding. And Ketch drives somewhere with Mary.

Or they capture Lady Deadeyes for that purpose but the shootout at the bunker happens before that can take place. No idea why Ketch would bring Mary, though.

Looks dire for Eileen, I agree. With the "hunters are being killed" and that scene in the woods. If they wanna amp up tension for the climax of the BMOL storyline in ep 22.

And the writer for the ep that introduced Eileen was Robbie Thompson. That means less incentive for the current writers to spare the character since a writer gets residuals only for the original characters they come up with, even if someone else uses them for their ep in thei future. Meaning, if the writer is smart and stays with a show, they keep their own creations alive as long as possible. Like Yockey would have incentive keeping the Barnes twins around.      

Garth is a Dabb creation so his chances are higher. I`m not sure who could claim Claire. The kid version was Carver but the teenage one Dabb. My guess is the latter. So that raises both their chances exponentially compared to Eileen.   

[catrox14]

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

And the writer for the ep that introduced Eileen was Robbie Thompson. That means less incentive for the current writers to spare the character since a writer gets residuals only for the original characters they come up with, even if someone else uses them for their ep in thei future. Meaning, if the writer is smart and stays with a show, they keep their own creations alive as long as possible. Like Yockey would have incentive keeping the Barnes twins around.      

Oh that is really interesting.  I didn't know they got paid that way.  That explains so many things! Thanks for that info!

[gonzosgirrl]

I really hope it's Sam who gets to take out Lady Twat, and Dean who ends Mr. Ketch. Alternatively, let Dean take the whole lot of them out with the grenade launcher.

[DittyDotDot]

So, it looks like they capture Lady Toni at some point and maybe do a hostage swap? Interesting.

[auntvi]

I'm reading speculation elsewhere that Eileen is going to be killed in the next episode. I don't usually get upset when a character dies, but this would really piss me off! It's lower than low If they kill off a deaf woman and keep Claire (and others).

[catrox14]

I think the odds have gone up on Eileen's death because I saw on her Twitter account she is going to be a regular in a new show. Correction: She has written the episode and is starring. Hm...

 

Quote

Stern, who has appeared on Lie to Me and Supernatural, and Feldman created The Chances together and wrote the episodes. It debuted at the Sundance Film Festival in January in the shortform episodic showcase. It was there that Sundance Now discovered the series. "When we first saw the shorts at the Sundance Film Festival, we instantly fell in love with the chemistry between Shoshannah and Josh," said Owen Shiflett, vp development at Sundance Now. "The show strikes a beautiful balance of being thoughtful, endearing and funny — all at once. Sundance Now's independent spirit and dedication to championing new voices make it the perfect home for The Chances." 

Edited May 6, 2017 by catrox14

[Wayward Son]

Dean fans rejoice! Jensen has said Dean gets to use the grenade launcher soon!

[DittyDotDot]

Aww, I was hoping he never got to use it till the very end of the series. I think it's a funny runner they've had this season and wouldn't have minded they kept it going a bit longer. 

Ah well, whatcha gonna do?

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Dean fans rejoice! Jensen has said Dean gets to use the grenade launcher soon!

I'm thinking it's not going to be used as we hope. Probably some comedic thing and then maybe use at the end of the series to blow up the Bunker?

[rue721]

For everybody who said they preferred a Dylan version of All Along the Watchtower over a Hendrix cover of the same for the season finale...OK, I'll go along with it, as long as we get to hear Jimi Hendrix do The Wind Cries Mary

[Idahoforspn]

34 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Dean fans rejoice! Jensen has said Dean gets to use the grenade launcher soon!

He also said he really likes episode 22. Jared is the one that appears to like the finale. Jensen seems to not be saying anything about it.

[nightwing877]

Garth and Eileen probably are going to die. Sigh. But Eileen I want to survive the most. Even if I would like if Claire to die just so Eileen can live. 

But on SPN, it is a trend that you have a better survival rate if you just appear in Monster of the Week episodes, but once you start appearing in mythology episodes, your days are numbered. LOL

Far too many good recurring characters die on this show. That I still would find it bold and really big if Cas or Crowley died and stayed dead, but that will never happen. 

[ZennyKenny]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

Dean fans rejoice! Jensen has said Dean gets to use the grenade launcher soon!

Woohoo!!!

[auntvi]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think the odds have gone up on Eileen's death because I saw on her Twitter account she is going to be a regular in a new show. Correction: She has written the episode and is starring. Hm...

 

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Stern, who has appeared on Lie to Me and Supernatural, and Feldman created The Chances together and wrote the episodes. It debuted at the Sundance Film Festival in January in the short form episodic showcase. It was there that Sundance Now discovered the series. "When we first saw the shorts at the Sundance Film Festival, we instantly fell in love with the chemistry between Shoshannah and Josh," said Owen Shiflett, vp development at Sundance Now. "The show strikes a beautiful balance of being thoughtful, endearing and funny — all at once. Sundance Now's independent spirit and dedication to championing new voices make it the perfect home for The Chances." 

Wow! Good for her!

edit: I hope Eileen takes a few BMoL pricks with her when she goes.

Edited May 6, 2017 by auntvi

[auntvi]

2 hours ago, rue721 said:

OK, I'll go along with it, as long as we get to hear Jimi Hendrix do The Wind Cries Mary

That sounds great - must be remastered.

Edit: try Little Wing live

Edited May 6, 2017 by auntvi

[catrox14]

More stuff coming out of AHBL8 con in Australia

Jensen, you little spoiling shit LOL.

I KNEW IT!!!! . It's got be where Dean and Sam have those sticks on that beach.  Another dimensions of some kind.

Edited May 6, 2017 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

So maybe my Oz prediction comes true. Or, another dimension. I knew Dabb`s word choice of "we`ll take exploring new worlds really seriously" was too much "teehee, I`m so smart, they`ll never gonna decipher that code, teehee" was too obvious.

Well, if that is the cliffhanger, then at least Dean is included in it. Even though I`m pretty sure the story will be resolved in a mini arc of two episodes in Season 13. They don`t have the budget nor the gumption to radically change the show to a wilderness fantasy survival story.    

[gonzosgirrl]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

More stuff coming out of AHBL8 con in Australia

Jensen, you little spoiling shit LOL.

I KNEW IT!!!! . It's got be where Dean and Sam have those sticks on that beach.  Another dimensions of some kind.

 

Could this be some version of The Empty? 

[Idahoforspn]

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 

Could this be some version of The Empty? 

That's what I immediately thought. Both of them in The Empty sounds interesting. 

[ILoveReading]

I also wondered if it might be a vision showed to Sam and Dean by Lucifer Jr.  Something similar to what happened to Cas. 

[DittyDotDot]

32 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I also wondered if it might be a vision showed to Sam and Dean by Lucifer Jr.  Something similar to what happened to Cas. 

That's what I was thinking, too. Although, I wanted them to end in The Empty last season, so I wouldn't be disappointed if that were the case too.

Wonder if what they shot for 13 is Cass's vision of the future he got from the spawn? 

[rue721]

No way that the vision Cas saw was some boring-looking boondocks. Most mundane vision of the future possible.

[ILoveReading]

9 minutes ago, rue721 said:

No way that the vision Cas saw was some boring-looking boondocks. Most mundane vision of the future possible.

I think it would depend on the spawn's mission.  Whatever he showed Cas it couldn't have been all doom and gloom otherwise he wouldn't have told Sam and Dean he had faith. 

If the baby's primary mission is survival, I can see it trying to lull Sam and Dean into some kind of false sense of security by showing them an idealized version of the future.  Sam, Dean and Mary all retired and living by the lake as a family would be something that would appeal Sam and Dean.

[rue721]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Whatever he showed Cas it couldn't have been all doom and gloom otherwise he wouldn't have told Sam and Dean he had faith.

Of course, no way Cas's vision had any doom and gloom.

I just think a vision of the boondocks is really uninspiring. Like, awesome vision of the future, baby. We can make that vision happen by going to Ocean City, Maryland in the off-season.

That said, I don't really know that it's the baby giving visions -- Lucifer also proved in the Future that he can communicate telepathically even while trapped in his Nick meatsuit, so I think the visions might be coming from him. Or maybe Kelly is possessed by the last surviving Yellow Eyed Demon. To be frank, that's what I would want do if I were a Yellow Eyed Demon tasked with taking care of her. I dunno, a lot of things could be happening.

And all THAT said, I still just 100% don't believe that the baby is evil or really much of anything in particular at this point. I just don't see what the big deal is about a human baby that has angelic grace. IMO the most dangerous thing about or for the baby is that Lucifer is intent on getting his hands on him. *Lucifer* is very dangerous and horrible, and no telling what he could do to that poor thing or out of "love" for it.

Anyway, I think that the grace is likely going to be drawn off by/into somebody else, and THAT is where the problem is going to arise. But that's just where I'm placing my bet -- no special info or anything.

[ZennyKenny]

With all of this talk about being concerned about how the baby will be raised, who will influence it, how dangerous it will be for the world, etc. I can't help but be worried that it's the Darkness 2.0 At least that's what it feels like to me.

[DittyDotDot]

49 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I just think a vision of the boondocks is really uninspiring. Like, awesome vision of the future, baby. We can make that vision happen by going to Ocean City, Maryland in the off-season.

Well, considering Cass's raison d'etre this season is knowing the Winchesters are safe and happy, while uninspiring, might be exactly what Cass needed to see?

I have no idea what Cass saw, but if that was it, I'd guess it was only part of what he saw. He probably saw a larger picture of the world as a whole, not just Sam and Dean sitting around in barcaloungers watching a big screen TV. I was just thinking that it might be a larger picture of "everyone gets what they want and are happy" vision. That would make sense for Cass to go full hog to make sure that happens, even if it meant being underhanded with Sam and Dean.

ETA: BTW, I wasn't talking about the boondocks with regards to Cass's vision in my original post. The first comment was about the boondocks possibly being The Empty or a vision from the spawn. The second part was in reference to a comment made at a con recently where Jared said they filmed something for S13. The question he was asked was something about if they thought the boys would ever add barcaloungers and other stuff to the bunker in the future. That is what I was wondering could've been some of what Cass saw in the last episode.

Edited May 6, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

Nothing to see here. I thought I was editing my previous post...DoH!

Edited May 6, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Idahoforspn]

Because they added Lucifer as a regular, I have been wondering if Crowley dies and Lucifer takes his place as the fourth lead. Anybody know if Mark is signed on for next year?

[DittyDotDot]

I have no idea if either Mark has signed on for S13, but I'd be surprised if they traded one Mark for the other. Like with Cass/Misha, Crowley is a popular character and Sheppard is loved by fandom. I'm not sure they'd get the same with Lucifer/Pelligrino.

[rue721]

22 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Well, considering Cass's raison d'etre this season is knowing the Winchesters are safe and happy, while uninspiring, might be exactly what Cass needed to see?

How would a fetus know that, though? How would a fetus even know about Sam and Dean?

I dunno, I have a hard time believing that a baby that hasn't even drawn its first breath would be able to produce any visions of the word's future, let alone personally tailored visions. I think either the baby isn't a baby at all, or something else is producing/implanting those visions.

Since Lucifer is known for implanting visions, and since Lucifer knows Cas, Sam, and sorta/kinda Dean intimately, my money is on him. But who knows, really. Could be a number of other demons or just creatures.

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, rue721 said:

How would a fetus know that, though? How would a fetus even know about Sam and Dean?

The fetus doesn't need to know. The point I was trying to make was, even if it seemed uninspiring to you, it might be meaningful to Cass, whether the fetus was intentionally showing Cass something false or whether it was coincidence the future just happened to be something Cass would like to see happen.

I personally am not convinced what Cass saw was false, though. 

[rue721]

7 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

the fetus was intentionally showing Cass something false or whether it was coincidence the future just happened to be something Cass would like to see happen.

We are clearly talking past each other

ETA:

1. Clearly Cas liked what he saw in that vision. But I don't think that the vision he saw was of some boring countryside. Why would Cas care about a vision of that? I would hope that whatever vision he saw was more big-picture than that.

2. I have no opinion on whether the vision was false or not.

3. My interest is in where the vision is coming from more than on what it is. Find it hard to believe it is coming from a fetus. But I guess we'll see.

Edited May 6, 2017 by rue721

[Idahoforspn]

38 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I have no idea if either Mark has signed on for S13, but I'd be surprised if they traded one Mark for the other. Like with Cass/Misha, Crowley is a popular character and Sheppard is loved by fandom. I'm not sure they'd get the same with Lucifer/Pelligrino.

I agree but I just wondered if Mark S wants to leave for some reason. Personally I don't care for Lucifer but that's just me.

[MysteryGuest]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

How would a fetus know that, though? How would a fetus even know about Sam and Dean?

Well, this is no ordinary fetus.  This is the spawn of the Devil.  I think that's a bit different.  I suppose the jury is still out on whether he will be good or evil, but I don't think there's any question that he will be powerful.  Frankly, the whole Lucifer baby drama thing leaves me cold, as does Lucifer, himself.  I'll be sad if Mark Sheppard leaves this season because I do enjoy Crowley.  They have given him even less to do this season than Cas, so I won't be completely shocked, but I'm not interested in trading Crowley for full-time Lucifer.  No thank you.

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, rue721 said:

1. Clearly Cas liked what he saw in that vision. But I don't think that the vision he saw was of some boring countryside. Why would Cas care about a vision of that?

Clearly you did not see my edit. We're talking about two totally different things here and I didn't realize it until after I posted:

• I first was talking about the the possibility of the boondocks being a vision or The Empty. But, I wasn't talking about Cass's recent vision, but something yet to come in the finale.
• Then I threw out that maybe Cass's vision in the last episode was what Jared was talking about filming at a con recently. Something about adding barcaloungers and a big screen TV to the bunker. I wondered if Cass's future vision included a scene of the boys happy and healthy in the bunker, still fighting the good fight together? Not about the boondocks at all. Although, depending on what was happening in the boondocks, I suppose he could have meaningful visions of that too.

Edited May 6, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Demented Daisy]

(Reposting instead of quoting.)

Ugh, that makes my teeth itch.

[rue721]

4 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Well, this is no ordinary fetus.  This is the spawn of the Devil.  I think that's a bit different.

Agree to disagree :) I mean about the "spawn of the devil" thing.

4 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Frankly, the whole Lucifer baby drama thing leaves me cold, as does Lucifer, himself.  I'll be sad if Mark Sheppard leaves this season because I do enjoy Crowley.  They have given him even less to do this season than Cas, so I won't be completely shocked, but I'm not interested in trading Crowley for full-time Lucifer.  No thank you.

I agree with you there

3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I first was talking about the the possibility of the boondocks being a vision or The Empty. But, I wasn't talking about Cass's recent vision, but something yet to come in the finale.

Ah OK.

3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I wondered if Cass's future vision included a scene of the boys happy and healthy in the bunker, still fighting the good fight together?

It's very possible, but honestly, I hope not. That kind of vision just seems so small in scope.

But in general, I think the reason that I can't ever quite warm up to Cas is exactly the reason why a lot of fans love him -- because of his (IMO myopic) focus on the Winchesters, and because he is Team Winchester through and through. Out of everything on this show, I don't know why THIS is what stretches my credulity too much, but it does.

I liked Cas a lot as a human. Definitely an UO, but if they would turn both Cas and Crowley human, I would like both those characters SO much more.

[SueB]

5 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

(Reposting instead of quoting.)

Ugh, that makes my teeth itch.

Teeth... itch?  Just checking. :)

[gonzosgirrl]

I have thought all along that Luci was controlling the visions, much like he had "God" talking to Sam last season.

[Demented Daisy]

8 hours ago, SueB said:

Teeth... itch?  Just checking. :)

make someone's teeth itch

(idiomatic) To bother or unsettle a person; to put someone on edge.

;-)

[Wayward Son]

I'm not dismissing the Lucifer is controlling the visions speculation. I've learnt not to dismiss anything when it comes to this show after being wrong in the past.

However, I do have to ask, what benefit would allowing the baby to go off with Castiel be to him? He seemed genuinely upset when Dagon told him that not only had Kelly escaped, but he was in Castiel's custody of all angels. Plus wouldn't a Lucifer supporting Knight of Hell be a better guardian to his child than a Lucifer hating angel?

Edited May 7, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

I don`t think the visions come from Lucifer. The Spawn may be playing his own game with whatever he showed Kelly and Cas but IMO it was him who showed them. I`m getting Jasmine-from-Angel-vibes with the kid.