Spoilers With Speculation

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Ah...shit.

I'm waiting for video on this, because Ive seen conflicting tweets.  One where Jensen said the hardest finale to film was the one they were about to, and another where he said they hadn't filmed it yet and it would be the last.  Not sure if he meant this season or if he was talking about the series finale.

Edited April 9, 2017 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm waiting for video on this, because Ive seen conflicting tweets.  One where Jensen said the hardest finale to film was the one they were about to, and another where he said they hadn't filmed it yet and it would be the last.  Not sure if he meant this season or if he was talking about the series finale.

Ah thanks for the clarification!

[SueB]

20 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm waiting for video on this, because Ive seen conflicting tweets.  One where Jensen said the hardest finale to film was the one they were about to, and another where he said they hadn't filmed it yet and it would be the last.  Not sure if he meant this season or if he was talking about the series finale.

I watched the Stage It.  It was definitely this season.  And he even followed it up with "see how I just rolled that out there....", like the little shit he likes to be with teasing.

HOWEVER, Jared slightly fuzzed it up or a fan said something that slightly fuzzed it up to imply series.  

But this is Jensen, and he was spoiling to spoil.  Like he DOES at this time of year.

CONTEXT:
- They asked what was the best finale and Jensen said S1 because it was all 4 main characters (The Winchesters in Peril).  Then they talked about what it was like filming without knowing what's going on.
- THEN they talked about hardest to film and Jared said "S8" (naturally).  And I expected Jensen to say "S3" (with the painful rigging).  But he switched and said the one coming up would be the hardest for BOTH of them.

Now, does this mean it's physically hard for them (as in rigging or action sequence) or emotionally hard (as in death of a loved one).

My interpretation: Too soon to tell.  But they are in a GOOD MOOD.  There's no acrimony or sadness in their demeanor.  So, I'm convinced it won't be a permanent death for either Misha or Mark S. (of either of them have a big moment).

Edited April 10, 2017 by SueB
added interpretation

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, SueB said:

I watched the Stage It.  It was definitely this season.  And he even followed it up with "see how I just rolled that out there....", like the little shit he likes to be with teasing.

HOWEVER, Jared slightly fuzzed it up or a fan said something that slightly fuzzed it up to imply series.  

But this is Jensen, and he was spoiling to spoil.  Like he DOES at this time of year.

Okay thanks.  I was only following on twitter and it can be like a game of telephone.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

I watched the Stage It.  It was definitely this season.  And he even followed it up with "see how I just rolled that out there....", like the little shit he likes to be with teasing.

HOWEVER, Jared slightly fuzzed it up or a fan said something that slightly fuzzed it up to imply series.  

But this is Jensen, and he was spoiling to spoil.  Like he DOES at this time of year.

Well, shit. Now I really am scared for Cas and/or Crowley. I really don't think Jensen would say it was the hardest to film if they killed Mary off again. No offense to Mary but she just doesn't have the longevity that Cas and Crowley have.

[ILoveReading]

I really hope they don't permanently kill off Cas and/or Crowley. 

[MysteryGuest]

If they kill off Crowley in exchange for Lucifer, I'll be pissed.  I enjoy Mark Sheppard much more.

[companionenvy]

Much as I've loved Cas, I think it is probably time for him to be cut back to non-regular status. But I really don't want him to die, especially as he's a character it would be so easy to write off WITHOUT killing, via a more permanent return to heaven. 

[ILoveReading]

Jared brings up the season finale about 4:30

The talk about favorite/hardest to film finale comes out around 11:15

"I'll answer for both of us.  We haven't filmed it yet."  No specific reference to series/season. 

Jared going on to talk about the series finale gives me the impression that was what Jensen was referring to, but it really can be interpreted either way, IMO. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by ILoveReading

[DittyDotDot]

42 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Jared going on to talk about the series finale gives me the impression that was what Jensen was referring to, but it really can be interpreted either way, IMO. 

Yeah, it could go either way not only because Jared was talking about the series finale, but they were also talking about back in the early seasons they didn't know if they were coming back and didn't know if they'd ever see some of those people again when Jensen asked the question. I was leading towards Jensen referring to this season finale, but then talked myself out of it when I came here...and talked myself back into it again. ;)

So, if it is this season finale Jensen was referring to, maybe it's just that there's are still yet a lot of revelations of just how far Mary goes and/or has gone in her naive attempt to give her sons a life without hunting. That could be very emotional for Sam and Dean and maybe even worse than if someone dies. It's more likely not given the show's track record, but maybe this will be the season no one dies at the end of it?

However, if someone dies, I'm putting my money on Mary. I'd even thrown in on the idea that Sam and Dean end up having to kill her, but I hope not.

Edited April 10, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[ILoveReading]

Thinking about what the s13 thing could be. 

The season 11 finale picked up where the 10th left off and I they didn't seem to film the start of 11.  I was on the location tour at VanCon and Russ (the location manager) said they couldn't film in the same place due to fire regulation.   So its possible they dont' want that to happen again. 

But I think the hint is in episode 16 somewhere.  Dabb said in his producer preview that it subtly hints at something they pick up in season 13.  The majority opinion I read, was that it seemed to be hinting toward a Claire/Wayward Daughters spin off.  It's interesting that Kathryn Newton was supposed to be a SeaCon this weekend but cancelled at the last minute.  JP and JA said they filmed it a couple days ago, which could be Friday.   Timing seems to hint that it involves Claire in some way.

Maybe the cure didn't work. 

I do think there is a lot of grey area in what Jensen said.    He's talked before about the hardest day being the last and the hardest thing about playing Dean was eventually going to be letting him go.  I lean more toward series finale because of the way he worded the question,  but who knows maybe he was referring to both.

Edited April 10, 2017 by ILoveReading

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

But I think the hint is in episode 16 somewhere.  Dabb said in his producer preview that it subtly hints at something they pick up in season 13.  The majority opinion I read, was that it seemed to be hinting toward a Claire/Wayward Daughters spin off.  It's interesting that Kathryn Newton was supposed to be a SeaCon this weekend but cancelled at the last minute.  JP and JA said they filmed it a couple days ago, which could be Friday.   Timing seems to hint that it involves Claire in some way.

I too think has something to do with Claire. I don't know if it's a whole spin off or just that maybe she'll be a recurring next season? Or maybe it's Claire who ends up dead in the finale? 

[Geordiegirl1967]

My prediction on where s13 will go is that Death / The Reapers will make a come back at the end of s12, once the BMoL have been dealt with. And that they will play a big role in s13. If the Nephalim is still around post s12 Death might want S&D to help him defeat it as payback?

Death is a great character. JR is a fabulous, charismatic actor, and we have been told over and over about cosmic consequences for their actions; for breaking the deal with Billie and killing her, for 'killing' Death (though I never thought that would stick permanently), for repeatedly cheating Fate and coming back from the dead etc.

I'm wondering if Death will take back Mary. Not necessarily kill her, but put right Amara's meddling by sending her back to heaven. This would be heartbreaking for Dean and Sam and might be why they are saying it will be hard to film (if indeed they are talking about the s12 finale when they say filming will be hard - lots of grey area in the reports I have seen).

(Just on the Nephalim and the lore - killing one was part of the test Cas had to pass when Metatron was conning him in s8. The one they found was a perfectly decent, functioning adult member of society. Fiery balls weren't falling from the sky because they had been allowed to be born. They weren't visiting death and destruction on all around them. And they were very straightforward to kill. Also they had been allowed to grow into an adult, whereas a group of angels were sent to kill Lily Sunder's child because they are so allegedly dangerous she had to be dealt with immediately. Have the writers totally forgotten about all this established canon?)

Edited April 10, 2017 by Geordiegirl1967

[rue721]

If it has to do with Claire, might it also have to do with Jimmy?

This is kind of nuts and I don't think it will happen, but do you think it could be possible (canon-wise) for Cas to switch places with Jimmy, so that Cas is in heaven and Jimmy is "possessing" Cas's "vessel" (aka, a replica of Jimmy's body) on earth?

ETA:  What's driving this crack!speculation (aside from the IMO pretty credible spec that Claire will be part of a cliffhanger and/or will die in the finale) is mostly that I don't think that a finale with Claire dying would necessarily be THAT devastating to film, but a finale in which Cas leaves (even if Misha stays on the show playing another character) could be.

I do think that something bad is going to go down with Claire (and/or her loved ones), mostly because Claire JUST admitted to loving Alex and Jodi, and you know that characters on this show can't ever have nice things -- so now I'm waiting for their family to be destroyed somehow ;) Maybe just adding Jimmy to it would be enough to do that, though ;)

I doubt that Mary will die, because it seems like she's on a 2-season character arc (a la Sam in S4/5 and Sam in S8/9). Although of course, who knows.

ETA2:  whoops. My fault for the homonym mix-up!

Edited April 10, 2017 by rue721
Finding errors, fixing things. The PTV business ;)

[DittyDotDot]

12 minutes ago, rue721 said:

If it has to do with Claire, might it also have to do with Jimmy?

This is kind of nuts and I don't think it will happen, but do you think it could be possible (cannon-wise) for Cas to switch places with Jimmy, so that Cas is in heaven and Jimmy is "possessing" Cas's "vessel" (aka, a replica of Jimmy's body) on earth?

Hmm? That's a good question. Jimmy is just a soul now and Cass doesn't have one so I'm not sure how exactly that would work. Although, I don't think they've ever fully explained how angels work. So, I think it is possible it could work with canon. As usual, though, it all depends on the angle they take on it.

Edited April 10, 2017 by DittyDotDot
Even though cannon and canon sound like the same word, they do have different meanings.

[SueB]

We also have reports from the Meet & Greets that EP 22 & 23 are going to be BIG. 

Things I DON'T see happening:
- Cas permanently Dead
- Crowley permanently Dead
- The Bunker blown up
 

I have tons of "may happens" but I think production issues drive my "don't see's".  We may get a character shift with Cas or Crowley or we THINK they are dead... but I don't see Misha or Mark absent from the series.  And to completely take out the Bunker after it provides so much cost savings from a production standpoint makes no sense to me. 

[ILoveReading]

11 minutes ago, SueB said:

We also have reports from the Meet & Greets that EP 22 & 23 are going to be BIG. 

. 

Do you have a link?

[Aeryn13]

Watching the stageit, I`d say it`s 95 % that Jensen talked about the Series Finale to be shot at an as of yet unspecified time. That`s also how Jared reacted to it. I`ll leave a small margin of error but I`m pretty sure.

Which right now bums me out because I would have liked an indication how Jensen feels about this Season Finale. Jared is excited for it which points to big Sam stuff. If Jensen has no particular reaction to it, that indicates nothing interesting for him. After this entire Season, I really wanted better news for the Finale. 

[catrox14]

I don't see much value story wise in bringing Jimmy Novak as a character into the show for any length of time beyond a couple of episodes unless it's to help launch Wayward Daughters and even then why would Jimmy be a part of that.

There is nothing else to tell about Jimmy Novak.  The story has already been told of how he came to be Cas' vessel and that he traded his life for Claire's and he finally got to be in Heaven at peace with his wife. 

I don't see how story wise how that would be interesting for Castiel fans to watch for more than a couple of episodes.  I like Jimmy but he's not Castiel.  Maybe they would do it to save Misha's vocal chords from permanent damage.

[companionenvy]

9 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Jared is excited for it which points to big Sam stuff. If Jensen has no particular reaction to it, that indicates nothing interesting for him

Given that a week ago you were predicting an episode where Dean sat around in the Impala while Sam killed Dagon, maybe it would be best to wait until the episode actually airs -- or we get more solid intel than "Jared was excited about the finale" --  to write it off? 

[Myrelle]

12 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Jared is excited for it which points to big Sam stuff. If Jensen has no particular reaction to it, that indicates nothing interesting for him. After this entire Season, I really wanted better news for the Finale. 

I just watched that part of the video and I could swear that JP said pretty much the same thing that Jensen said at times when we were headed into the season finale of S9(when Dean became a demon). And I saw no reaction whatsoever from Jensen. So yeah, not feeling any good vibes about this one either. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Given that a week ago you were predicting an episode where Dean sat around in the Impala while Sam killed Dagon, maybe it would be best to wait until the episode actually airs -- or we get more solid intel than "Jared was excited about the finale" --  to write it off? 

While Sam didn`t kill Dagon, I do consider the last episode horrific for Dean in terms of non-relevance so this is not the best example. In the past, this has just been the pattern, Jared expressed excitement for Sam-stuff first and foremost. And Jensen being quiet about stuff has been a good indicator also. The only episode he expressed really liking this Season has been Regarding Dean. I haven`t heard such praise from him for any other one. And he didn`t join in in praising the Finale.

Why would they suddenly change decade-long previous behaviours?   

[Aeryn13]

Thing is, noone can force themselves to care about or be interested in specific things on TV shows. Everyone likes what they like.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, companionenvy said:

Given that a week ago you were predicting an episode where Dean sat around in the Impala while Sam killed Dagon, maybe it would be best to wait until the episode actually airs -- or we get more solid intel than "Jared was excited about the finale" --  to write it off? 

As I mentioned upthread, Jared does seem to have a pattern wherein the episodes he typically speaks highly of or most excited about in a season are those in which Sam has a meaty role or at least pivotal part in the proceedings. 

In s9 Jared talked about being shocked that Dean was turned into a demon which also gave Sam a redemption path to save Dean after s8.  Jared said he was surprised by this script so  maybe he's  talking about something totally unexpected happening  to another character that might portend something big for Sam heading into s13.

That's no slight on Jared. His job is to sell Sam Winchester to the audience. This gives Sam leaning fans something to look forward too. It's not to say that Dean will have a nothing role but I suspect it does mean that Sam's character will end up doing something important.

Edited April 10, 2017 by catrox14

[ILoveReading]

I think I'd feel more reassured if Jensen actually said something about the finale.  But he didn't say a word.  He sat there mute.  Normally, when he's excited he has trouble containing it, and tends to spoil it the way he did in s9 with the eye opener comment or at Asylum (or it might have been JIB) and read that letter from Peter Roth and almost gave away the Mary spoiler. 

But he's been pretty mute on this season as a whole.  He's yet to live tweet (not ever Regarding Dean).

Edited April 10, 2017 by ILoveReading

[SueB]

So I've cued up the You Tube of the discussion at the right moment.  You need to listen to the two minutes PRIOR to his statement to see why I think he's talking about THIS year.

 

Fan asks for most difficult, Jensen RE-ASKS Jared for "hardest".  Jared says S8.  Then Jensen says we haven't filmed it yet.  Now Jared, I think, presumes he's talking series finale.  But Jensen, who has a history of spoiling at this time of year said "I just rolled that one out there."  I'm convinced this year's finale will be hard to film for them -- based primarily on it previously being all about the season finales prior to that moment.  It was Jared who turned it into "series" vice "season".  

[Aeryn13]

Quote

 It was Jared who turned it into "series" vice "season".  

And I think he was picking up Jensen`s clue. Jensen said "the hardest one we have yet to film" and looks at Jared pointedly. For a second, Jared is confused but then gets it that Jensen means the Series Finale. The comment of "I just rolled that one out there" is IMO Jensen acknowledging he kinda made that moment emotionally heavy. And Jared goes from there.   

I watched the entire exchange, from where the topic started to the end and this is what I`m getting from it.

[catrox14]

I have to say I  think Jensen was speaking about the series finale in that portion. JMHO

[rue721]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I don't see much value story wise in bringing Jimmy Novak as a character into the show for any length of time beyond a couple of episodes unless it's to help launch Wayward Daughters and even then why would Jimmy be a part of that.

There is nothing else to tell about Jimmy Novak.  The story has already been told of how he came to be Cas' vessel and that he traded his life for Claire's and he finally got to be in Heaven at peace with his wife. 

I don't see how story wise how that would be interesting for Castiel fans to watch for more than a couple of episodes.  I like Jimmy but he's not Castiel.  Maybe they would do it to save Misha's vocal chords from permanent damage.

You're right, Jimmy isn't that interesting. It's just a crack!spec.

But I do think the spec that Claire is involved in the season finale seems pretty credible, so I'm wondering what could go down that would:

1. Involve Claire

2. Mess up the Claire/Jodi/Alex thing (since it's going well -- IMO that means it's doomed!)

3. Be devastating (aka something major, like the death/disappearance of Castiel)

I'm very confident that Misha isn't going anywhere, but Cas is the only character I can think of who isn't in the middle of a character arc, so I do think Cas might be in danger.

Oh yeah, and there was that thing about Lucifer doing something really bad, too.

Oh jeez, maybe Lucifer is going to possess Claire?

ETA:  I would hate it if Lucifer were to possess Claire, because I hate Lucifer AND Claire, and that would guarantee more of them both!

Also, wouldn't it be hilarious and weird if Lucifer tried to possess his own kid? Just saying. ETA2:  kind of Being John Malkovich-y

Edited April 10, 2017 by rue721

[SueB]

Bits that we know related to Lucifer's love child (aka the devil's spawn):
- Kelly has just been told this will kill her (whether or not that is true, this is what she knows) - last episode
- Mark P. says we are going to HATE him -- strongly suggests he kills someone we like.  If it was just 'screw over', I don't know if we'd be that pissed.
- Mark S. is back to his "Crowley is dead" spiel.  Which was actually the truth (the last time he said it) -- from a certain point of view (say it like Obi-Wan with a sketchy rocking back and forth).  Last time "Crowley is dead" came up was when Crowley appeared to have been stabbed to death. His meatsuit stayed dead on the floor while he had a menopausal orgy in a suburban housewife's body and then killed everyone (just the perfect way for the King of Hell to finish off an orgy).  
- "Kelly makes a bold decision" is in one of the CW promo monkey's upcoming description
- Kelly is listed in the finale per our best spoiler cataloger. (Ibelieveinthelittletreetopper on Tumblr)
- Something SHADY is happening to Cas in heavy -- based on his absence
- There IS something about Mary (*rim shot*..I'll show myself out) in EP 22
- Cas is supposed to get a power up (can't remember the spoiler source but this was Dabb or someone of that ilk several months ago)
- Cas is definitely in EP 22 (script picture) and likely EP 23 
 

Which leads me to believe:
- The BMoL story is NOT the central focus of 22/23.  They'll get into a steady state in 20/21 is more likely. When LadyMcTorture reshows. I also suspect a Dean vs Ketch BIG FIGHT.  They've been t-ing that up all year.  Again, NOT in 22/23
- 22/23 is going to focus on Satan's spawn. 
- Big doings regarding Mary in EP22 based on script.
- Crowley MAY appear to have bit the dust at the hands of Lucifer but it's a fake out.  

I suspect that this time in late May the primary complaint will be how they crammed too much into the last five episodes.  It's par for the course and they seem well on the way to that approach.

Edited April 10, 2017 by SueB

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, rue721 said:

ETA:  I would hate it if Lucifer were to possess Claire, because I hate Lucifer AND Claire, and that would guarantee more of them both!

I don't see that happening unless somehow he tortures Claire into giving her consent because I don't see any scenario where she would allow another angel to possess her after Cas did in s4 given what that did to her family and that she's just now finding some peace with Cas.

I suspect Cas will have been tasked by Heaven with killing the Nephilim but I don't think he'll be willing to do it. I think he'll remember about Lily Sunder and that he'll maybe give it a chance.  So if Cas has custody of the Nephelim then I could see a scenario wherein Lucifer kidnaps Claire and uses her as a hostage to get the Nephilim

[rue721]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

- Crowley MAY appear to have bit the dust at the hands of Lucifer but it's a fake out.

I'm torn, because that seems like where the show is going -- Crowley is definitely going to get his comeuppance for taking Lucifer captive -- but at the same time, I'm hoping there's going to be some kind of twist and Lucifer doesn't just flat out kill him.

I'm still holding out hope that the "twist" is that Crowley will be cured, because I'm super curious about that. The only cured demon who's been a real character on the show is Dean, right? And he sort of doesn't count, because we knew Dean way longer and more in depth as a human rather than a demon anyway. It would be interesting to see Crowley as a human after seeing him as a demon for so long. And he would be screwed in terms of staying King of Hell, so him becoming human would also create a power vacuum. I think that Lucifer going on about there being "one true king" is a clue that he wants to take over as King of Hell, too.

In any case, I don't think Mark Sheppard is really going to be off the show, for pretty much the same reasons that Misha isn't. But then, maybe I'm just in denial ;)

[AwesomO4000]

That all makes sense, @catrox14.

Okay, because this has been nagging at me, topic shift for a moment (sorry,) or otherwise I'll forget this later... As of last episode, Ketch is supposed to kill all of the American hunters, including Sam and Dean, right? And without Mick alive to warn them and presumably Ketch able to get into the bunker at any time... how is it going to be explained that Ketch doesn't just go in there right now and kill Sam and Dean this upcoming episode? Because Sam and Dean have no idea Boss Lady I'mSoBritish has shown up and the entire mood just did a 180 from recruit to kill. So they are going to be doing a regular case as if everything is normal, while Ketch the efficient killer is going to be after them? Considering that the Disney brothers, Roy and Walt, were able to track down and sneak up on Sam and Dean and blow them away, how the heck am I supposed to believe that Ketch isn't going to be killing Sam and Dean next episode?

Okay that out of the way...

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

In s9 Jared talked about being shocked that Dean was turned into a demon which also gave Sam a redemption path to save Dean after s8.  Jared said he was surprised by this script so  maybe he's  talking about something totally unexpected happening  to another character that might portend something big for Sam heading into s13.

As for the finale, I'm not going to take much of anything from any of the speculation, because I thought that the season 9 was completely awful for Sam, being that Sam 1) was turned into a hypocrite 2) was given that horrible "true friends.. like Gadreel" line 3) was knocked out and thereby excluded from any of the action and world-saving, and only came running in too late 4) was given a supposed "redemption" / saving Dean arc set up by the finale of season 9 and Dean turning into a demon that included Sam supposedly doing worse things than demon Dean (according to the narrative) and starting an apocalypse while doing it, so not really what I'd call a true "redemption" arc there nor even showing Sam in a good light...

So basically what I'm saying is that if Jared found the season 9 finale "surprising" or something exciting for Sam, either I don't share his vision, since I thought that it was completely awful for Sam and didn't really do much to set Sam up for redemption in season 10 - Sam at least acting more like himself again in that season notwithstanding - or Jared is just better at trying to find the positive in crappy stuff given to his character. Wasn't Jared also "up" concerning season 8? And season 8 was completely awful for his character as well.

And was Jensen pretty low key about the season 11 finale? And if so, Dean was a key character in that finale, and was in fact the key to getting Amara to change her mind and saving the world.

I kind of hope that Sam does have something exciting coming up, since it's been a while, but I would actually like it to be positive this time. When was the last time Sam has been able to do something positive that affected the story arc?... Actually forget that. I'll just be happy if Sam doesn't mess up somehow or cause another apocalypse. I'd rather he have little to no part in the arc at all if it means he'll be saddled with something stupid and/or cosmically devastating.

Now on a positive note - HUGE unpopular opinion here: I like the Lucifer arc. There I said it. I think it's a good tie in and an actual arc for Crowley that doesn't just shoehorn him into the show. It naturally involves Castiel if they want, too, due to previous happenings, and I'm interested to see where the Lucifer's spawn stuff is going to go. For me I don't mind if Michael is left out of it, since I generally find the Lucifer character to be more interesting in terms of motivation and plot potential. Sure he's whiny and egotistical and has daddy issues, but he's also potentially creepy and scary in that petting the bunny to death way, because if he "cares" about you, the more likely it will be that you pay dearly for that attention (just ask Sam). So I'm on board for Lucifer - bring it on! Ordering myself a hot blackberry cobbler a la mode in the dining car right now. I don't even mind the Mary arc, since I'm interested to see where that's all going to go as well.

I'm actually mostly enjoying this season so far - my one main complaint being the plotonium that fell on Sam's head, because I'm tired of plotonium falling on Sam's head. I think it's time to give the poor character a break from that. And giving Sam the occasional "badass" save is not a sufficient fix for having him make stupid and/or nonsensical, plot driven decisions. For me it's like a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound.

Edited April 10, 2017 by AwesomO4000
Because Mick and Ketch are two different characters.

[DittyDotDot]

12 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Okay, because this has been nagging at me, topic shift for a moment (sorry,) or otherwise I'll forget this later... As of last episode, Ketch is supposed to kill all of the American hunters, including Sam and Dean, right? And without Mick alive to warn them and presumably Ketch able to get into the bunker at any time... how is it going to be explained that Ketch doesn't just go in there right now and kill Sam and Dean this upcoming episode? Because Sam and Dean have no idea Boss Lady I'mSoBritish has shown up and the entire mood just did a 180 from recruit to kill. So they are going to be doing a regular case as if everything is normal, while Ketch the efficient killer is going to be after them? Considering that the Disney brothers, Roy and Walt, were able to track down and sneak up on Sam and Dean and blow them away, how the heck am I supposed to believe that Ketch isn't going to be killing Sam and Dean next episode?

Maybe Ketch comes to the bunker, but Sam and Dean just aren't home at the time and he decides to just hang out and drink their booze for a couple days? ;)

Actually, this is something that cracked me up in S5. Angels, demons and the devil himself were trying to find Sam and Dean, but not one of them considered going to watch Bobby's place where they were known to show up eventually?

Edited April 10, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[ILoveReading]

9 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Considering that the Disney brothers, Roy and Walt, were able to track down and sneak up on Sam and Dean and blow them away, how the heck am I supposed to believe that Ketch isn't going to be killing Sam and Dean next episode?

According to the spoiler sheet Ketch is listed for this episode.  Also 20, 21 and 22. 

From the sounds of it, episode 22 sounds Jody is going to be back.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

32 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I think that Lucifer going on about there being "one true king" is a clue that he wants to take over as King of Hell, too.

That's interesting, because I thought he was never interested in running Hell in the past.  I just figured he was saying that to the 'true believers' to get them to help him.  (And how stupid are the minions who keep helping him only to end up obliterated?  You'd think word would get out after awhile.)

[SueB]

17 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

That all makes sense, @catrox14.

Okay, because this has been nagging at me, topic shift for a moment (sorry,) or otherwise I'll forget this later... As of last episode, Ketch is supposed to kill all of the American hunters, including Sam and Dean, right? And without Mick alive to warn them and presumably Ketch able to get into the bunker at any time... how is it going to be explained that Ketch doesn't just go in there right now and kill Sam and Dean this upcoming episode? Because Sam and Dean have no idea Boss Lady I'mSoBritish has shown up and the entire mood just did a 180 from recruit to kill. So they are going to be doing a regular case as if everything is normal, while Ketch the efficient killer is going to be after them? Considering that the Disney brothers, Roy and Walt, were able to track down and sneak up on Sam and Dean and blow them away, how the heck am I supposed to believe that Ketch isn't going to be killing Sam and Dean next episode?

Okay that out of the way...

As for the finale, I'm not going to take much of anything from any of the speculation, because I thought that the season 9 was completely awful for Sam, being that Sam 1) was turned into a hypocrite 2) was given that horrible "true friends.. like Gadreel" line 3) was knocked out and thereby excluded from any of the action and world-saving, and only came running in too late 4) was given a supposed "redemption" / saving Dean arc set up by the finale of season 9 and Dean turning into a demon that included Sam supposedly doing worse things than demon Dean (according to the narrative) and starting an apocalypse while doing it, so not really what I'd call a true "redemption" arc there nor even showing Sam in a good light...

So basically what I'm saying is that if Jared found the season 9 finale "surprising" or something exciting for Sam, either I don't share his vision, since I thought that it was completely awful for Sam and didn't really do much to set Sam up for redemption in season 10 - Sam at least acting more like himself again in that season notwithstanding - or Jared is just better at trying to find the positive in crappy stuff given to his character. Wasn't Jared also "up" concerning season 8? And season 8 was completely awful for his character as well.

And was Jensen pretty low key about the season 11 finale? And if so, Dean was a key character in that finale, and was in fact the key to getting Amara to change her mind and saving the world.

I kind of hope that Sam does have something exciting coming up, since it's been a while, but I would actually like it to be positive this time. When was the last time Sam has been able to do something positive that affected the story arc?... Actually forget that. I'll just be happy if Sam doesn't mess up somehow or cause another apocalypse. I'd rather he have little to no part in the arc at all if it means he'll be saddled with something stupid and/or cosmically devastating.

Now on a positive note - HUGE unpopular opinion here: I like the Lucifer arc. There I said it. I think it's a good tie in and an actual arc for Crowley that doesn't just shoehorn him into the show. It naturally involves Castiel if they want, too, due to previous happenings, and I'm interested to see where the Lucifer's spawn stuff is going to go. For me I don't mind if Michael is left out of it, since I generally find the Lucifer character to be more interesting in terms of motivation and plot potential. Sure he's whiny and egotistical and has daddy issues, but he's also potentially creepy and scary in that petting the bunny to death way, because if he "cares" about you, the more likely it will be that you pay dearly for that attention (just ask Sam). So I'm on board for Lucifer - bring it on! Ordering myself a hot blackberry cobbler a la mode in the dining car right now. I don't even mind the Mary arc, since I'm interested to see where that's all going to go as well.

I'm actually mostly enjoying this season so far - my one main complaint being the plotonium that fell on Sam's head, because I'm tired of plotonium falling on Sam's head. I think it's time to give the poor character a break from that. And giving Sam the occasional "badass" save is not a sufficient fix for having him make stupid and/or nonsensical, plot driven decisions. For me it's like a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound.

1) You are not alone. 

2) Even if I didn't already like the Lucifer arc, the hot blackberry cobbler a la mode would have clinched the deal. And LOL on the pet the bunny visual. 

3) Ketch not shooting them in their beds is 1) plutonium and 2) potential character arrogance/stupidity.  He's underestimated them on a massive scale and yet seems to want to compete with them.  Probably sick of them being talked up by the old men. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

29 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

How is it going to be explained that Ketch doesn't just go in there right now and kill Sam and Dean this upcoming episode?

Well, Sketch did knock last time he showed up at the bunker.  Maybe he doesn't have a key?  If they couldn't find Mick's, (He left it at the bunker) BritishBossLady would have to give him hers and maybe she doesn't want to do that?  Or already caught the red-eye back to Merry Old England.  And that's why Lady Ihopeshegetsabulletinherhead comes back.

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, SueB said:

3) Ketch not shooting them in their beds is 1) plutonium 2) potential character arrogance/stupidity.  He's underestimated them on a massive scale and yet seems to want to compete with them.  Probably sick of them being talked up by the old men.  

Beat Typo of the day. it might very well take Plutonium to kill the boys. ?

[Mick Lady]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Watching the stageit, I`d say it`s 95 % that Jensen talked about the Series Finale to be shot at an as of yet unspecified time. That`s also how Jared reacted to it. I`ll leave a small margin of error but I`m pretty sure.

Which right now bums me out because I would have liked an indication how Jensen feels about this Season Finale. Jared is excited for it which points to big Sam stuff. If Jensen has no particular reaction to it, that indicates nothing interesting for him. After this entire Season, I really wanted better news for the Finale. 

Series Final? Do we know 13 is the last season? Break it to me gently...

Edited April 10, 2017 by Mick Lady
I'm upset

[rue721]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I don't see that happening unless somehow he tortures Claire into giving her consent because I don't see any scenario where she would allow another angel to possess her after Cas did in s4 given what that did to her family and that she's just now finding some peace with Cas.

Hmm that's true about Claire needing to give permission to be possessed. Well, I give up, I have no idea what could be happening with her in the last few eps.

Can an angel inhabit a dead body? Could Lucifer kill Claire and then possess her body? I don't think that's going to happen (so dark), just curious.

34 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

That's interesting, because I thought he was never interested in running Hell in the past.  I just figured he was saying that to the 'true believers' to get them to help him.  (And how stupid are the minions who keep helping him only to end up obliterated?  You'd think word would get out after awhile.)

I think he would want to take Crowley's throne (and then keep it, natch) just as a fuck you to Crowley if nothing else. But I don't really know what Lucifer wants, aside from being the most beloved and in control of everything. He's such a brat.

Didn't Lucifer used to run Hell? Back when he was creating demons and Princes/Dukes/Knights/Whatever of Hell and stuff? I would think it's his old home, but I'm not sure (don't really remember).

Edited April 10, 2017 by rue721

[Wayward Son]

28 minutes ago, Mick Lady said:

Series Final? Do we know 13 is the last season? reak it to me gently...

I think Jensen was (potentially) just talking about the series finale in general. I think, based on this and other comments he has made in the past, that he is talking about the fact that saying goodbye to the show and the character of Dean will be hard for him. There has been nothing to indicate an end date for the show has been decided yet :)

 

* I used the word potentially since people are debating whether he meant this finale or the series finale. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Wayward Son

[SueB]

Not many pics but a few. 
Definitely MOTW

12.18 photos

[Wayward Son]

Based on the twitter account of S.E Hinton it has been confirmed Jody will star in 12x22 :)

Edit: I just noticed @ILoveReading's posts which I somehow liked but forgot about ! Sorry about that :s

Edited April 10, 2017 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

Gods  they better not kill Jody.

[DittyDotDot]

22 minutes ago, Mick Lady said:

Series Final? Do we know 13 is the last season? Break it to me gently...

No, no, no...just talk of when it does happen, sometime in the future, it could very well be the hardest for them to film because it will be the end and saying goodbye to so many people and Sam and Dean.

Edited April 10, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Gods  they better not kill Jody.

I don't think they will.  Kim said we would know because someone else would be playing her.  Plus, she tweeted that they really let Berens out to play, which is why I think this episode will be heavily focused on Jody.

[MysteryGuest]

I think Jensen was referring to series finale, as well.  That will absolutely be the hardest of them all for them to shoot.  As for this season's finale, I have no clue.  If they bump off Cas or Crowley so that Lucifer can stay on, I will not be happy.  I'm not sure they'd bring Claire back just to kill her after they just saved her life, unless she's killed by Ketch and that's what sets Sam and Dean after the BMOL.

Didn't we just see a little scene of Dean shooting someone in the Bunker?  I have to assume that was some member of the BMOL, since they seem able to just drop by whenever they want.  Lady Toni got in and so did Mick.  I think the only reason Ketch knocked was because he was trying to win Dean over.  

[Mick Lady]

13 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Jared brings up the season finale about 4:30

The talk about favorite/hardest to film finale comes out around 11:15

"I'll answer for both of us.  We haven't filmed it yet."  No specific reference to series/season. 

Jared going on to talk about the series finale gives me the impression that was what Jensen was referring to, but it really can be interpreted either way, IMO. 

Thanks for this ILoveReading! (I do about four books a week myself, btw) I'm much calmer now after watching this video, clearly they were talking about an unspecified series final, no timeline.

I'm better now.

[ILoveReading]

10 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

Thanks for this ILoveReading! (I do about four books a week myself, btw) I'm much calmer now after watching this video, clearly they were talking about an unspecified series final, no timeline.

I'm better now.

I average about two.  Nothing better than a good book.

On topic

Thinking about episode 18, Ketch is listed as a guest star on the spoiler sheet and this episode is giving me Out With Old vibes.  That ep description talked about Dean getting cursed by ballet shoes.  That was dealt with in the first part of the episode and the tone dramatically shifted to being all about the leviathans.  It started as a MOTW and turned into a mytharc one. 

Given how few promo stills we got and how little the shaving people/punting things showed, (when they are normally very spoilery) I wonder if they are trying to keep a bigger story under wraps, after all the Tag Line is secrets and lies.  

It maybe Ketch who spills the beans about where the colt came from. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by ILoveReading