Spoilers With Speculation

[Myrelle]

Oh, forgot to add that the sizzle reel gave me terrible Mary Sue-type of writing vibes. Hope I'm wrong, but unless that's a supernatural being of some sort taking out both Cas and Dean, and not just a human M(W)OL, then I'm not buying it. And I can so see them having Mary swoop in and save everyone, in any case, as that's the MO of these writers. Again, hope I'm wrong, but the feeling is strong; at least from that preview and IMO.

[Demented Daisy]

http://tvline.com/2016/07/29/supernatural-spoilers-season-12-sam-taken-dean-reunion/

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“Sam’s going through hell with the British Men of Letters” who have captured the hunter, executive producer Robert Singer previews.

 

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Meanwhile, the elder Winchester is in the dark about his little bro’s whereabouts — but not for long. “Dean’s got to figure out quickly what has happened, where he is, and then it turns into a bit of Taken,” Ackles shares. There’s even a direct shout-out to Liam Neeson’s famous “I will find you” line from the film franchise, the actor reveals.

[Boopsahoy]

21 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I'm sure that Jensen will act the hell out of Mary's return

For sure! I'm just afraid they are going to have Dean have to choose between Mary and Sam....How will he live with that?

[DittyDotDot]

13 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

For sure! I'm just afraid they are going to have Dean have to choose between Mary and Sam....How will he live with that?

Oh God, I hope not! That would just...nope, gonna go sit over hear and sing loudly. I cannot hear you... ;)

[Demented Daisy]

Oh, he'd choose Sam, if that's the case.  He will choose Sam over everyone else, always.

We wouldn't have a show, otherwise....

[catrox14]

If he chose Sam over Mary, I think he'd kill himself shortly thereafter. I really do. I don't think he could live with that, now that Mary is back. Unless he had some notion that Mary being back fucked with the natural order. (And really what about the Natural Order here universe????)

Edited July 31, 2016 by catrox14

[Demented Daisy]

The only way Dean would kill himself, IMO, is if that was an option -- keep Sam and Mary alive, sacrifice himself.

Otherwise, I completely disagree with the notion that Dean would kill himself just because he saved his brother instead of his mother.

[catrox14]

I made an edit as to why I think he would. 

[Demented Daisy]

Committing suicide means abandoning Sam.  Dean would never do that, no matter how guilty he felt over not saving Mary.

[SueB]

What would be the most painfully, dramatic, and horrific thing they could do?  Yeah... 'Sam vs Mary. Dean, you choose.'  I'm giving it 3-1 odds. 

[Wynne88]

I hope not, Sue!  It seems to me that at this point Mary is a stranger to him.  He doesn't have a relationship with her (yet, at least), so how can the sentimental notion that she's his mother trump the brother he went to hell for?  I don't see it, but as you say, the writers may prove me wrong.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, SueB said:

What would be the most painfully, dramatic, and horrific thing they could do?  Yeah... 'Sam vs Mary. Dean, you choose.'  I'm giving it 3-1 odds. 

Yup. I agree.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, SueB said:

What would be the most painfully, dramatic, and horrific thing they could do?  Yeah... 'Sam vs Mary. Dean, you choose.'  I'm giving it 3-1 odds. 

Yup. I agree.

3 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

I hope not, Sue!  It seems to me that at this point Mary is a stranger to him.  He doesn't have a relationship with her (yet, at least), so how can the sentimental notion that she's his mother trump the brother he went to hell for?  I don't see it, but as you say, the writers may prove me wrong.

Haven't they been trying to say the co-dependency is a bad thing. The brothers have to learn let each other go? If saving Mary  vs saving Sam saves more of humanity...I think Dean would have little choice.

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

What would be the most painfully, dramatic, and horrific thing they could do?  Yeah... 'Sam vs Mary. Dean, you choose.'  I'm giving it 3-1 odds. 

I think it's more likely that Mary will sacrifice herself in order to save one or both of the boys.  That's the easiest way to get rid of her, keep their sanity, and give another hefty dose of angst to kick-start the year, even though, yeah, been there, done that.  But when has that ever stopped the writers before?

[Wynne88]

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If saving Mary  vs saving Sam saves more of humanity...I think Dean would have little choice.

If saving Mary also includes saving a bunch of other people, then perhaps I could see him going that route.  But I was thinking more along the lines of Dean having to chose just between Sam and Mary, without any other lives resting on the outcome.   In that situation, my money is on saving Sam, because even though they say codependency is a bad thing, they go back to it over and over.

[Boopsahoy]

13 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

Oh, he'd choose Sam, if that's the case.  He will choose Sam over everyone else, always

I agree-but it would break his heart-I just hope they don't go there...although I can see it as a way to remove Mary from the story and move on.

[SueB]

Honestly, Mary 'redeeming' herself from her original deal is the most likely case. She comes in, initially disapproves, then sees the boys do good works and gives her blessing for their hunter lives (closure), then dies putting Luci back in the cage (redemption).  Now personally I don't think Mary NEEDS redemption but I could see her guilt at their lives and her finding peace at this outcome. 

ETA: Yes, it puts emphasis on Mary vice Sam and Dean. I'm okay with that. Mary is the iconic figure here. Just like when God was around, the iconic figure doesn't really slide into the background. Not for long. But it's season 12. If they have half a season giving the boys long term resolution with Mary, works for me. 

Edited July 31, 2016 by SueB

[auntvi]

19 hours ago, SueB said:

What would be the most painfully, dramatic, and horrific thing they could do?  Yeah... 'Sam vs Mary. Dean, you choose.'  I'm giving it 3-1 odds. 

Wow! I would kinda like to see that. All along, it's been that Dean can't let go of Sam, feels responsible for Sam, doesn't want to live without Sam. With his mother back, Dean is no longer the only person who can protect Sam. Even though Sam & Dean are grown children, Mary being alive has to affect the brothers' relationship. It's no longer 2 brothers all alone with only each other; they now have a MOTHER.

[companionenvy]

OK, way out guess time, with the caveat that my predictive powers are terrible.

I've seen some spec that Lady Toni's kid is Dean's, or  (less likely) Sam's. 

First of all, if this is true, I want to note that this does NOT mean that Lady T is the birth mother. I can imagine a Heroes scenario in which the MOL gave one of their insiders a Winchester kid to raise -- maybe because they knew about the vessel thing and wanted a plan B, maybe because they thought the kid might have Sam's powers, maybe because they wanted leverage against the Winchesters. In this scenario, depending on how old the kid is, I'd say the likeliest candidate for father is probably soulless Sam, who canonically had a lot of sex, and probably wasn't all that concerned about protection. Another possibility would be post-deal, season 3 Dean.

In any case, my WOG is that whoever the kid is, Mary Winchester is going to wind up raising it. That would be a plausible way to justify her leaving the show without killing her off. It would also be a decent resolution to an arc that, from what we've heard so far,  is going to involve coping with being the technical "mother" of two men who she didn't raise and are now older than she is. 

Of course, as this is SPN, they might well just find increasingly dull and pointless subplots to keep her away from the boys, a la Cas, or kill her off, a la nearly every other secondary character who isn't the king of Hell or his mommy. But if they want to try something different -- well, they've just introduced a little boy whose single mom has a very dangerous job, and a mom whose little boys are all grown up. 

[Myrelle]

I would hate it if they resurrected Mary only to kill her off again, so her raising a long lost Winchester boy would work for me, but I'm sure there would be much screaming and gnashing of teeth over it in this fandom.

[catrox14]

If Mary wants to fulfill raising a child then I'm for it, but I'll admit it does bother me if they bring her back just to have her raise a kid. I mean I kind of hope she doesn't want to raise a random kid. Let her just go teach newbie hunters with Jody and Donna. 

[pixelcat]

30 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

If Mary wants to fulfill raising a child then I'm for it, but I'll admit it does bother me if they bring her back just to have her raise a kid. I mean I kind of hope she doesn't want to raise a random kid. Let her just go teach newbie hunters with Jody and Donna. 

Have her start up a Hunters' School with Krissy in the creepy blood-on-the-wall dead guy's house.  Get Claire to attend before she gets herself killed.  Jody & Donna can be guest lecturers.

If that kid (or any kid) turns out to be related to anyone, I will cover my eyes and say LALALA CAN'T SEE YOU.

[catrox14]

Wayward Daughters Academy :)

[catrox14]

Me, just sitting here...waiting for spoilers like

 

[7kstar]

Heads will roll if they Kill Mary off again.  Have her help raise the girls in the art of hunting or give her a peaceful ending.  The 'kill off so and so' is so overdone and boring.  Of course they have done stuff thinking that they had really surprised the fans.  I mean how many real surprises have there been...Angels.  Most of the other stuff has either come out of no where or been something we didn't think they would be so stupid to do?  Now, not sure if too stupid to do is off the table.  grrrh.

Love the pic of Dean waiting to tie me over for a few days.  lol

[Demented Daisy]

BuddyTV interview w/Misha -- Cas hunting down Lucifer, getting his mojo back, etc.

The most interesting bit to me:

Quote

They have outlines through first 8 episodes so he has a good sense of what's happening for first third of the season.

You mean they're actually planning ahead again?  No more of Carver's make-it-up-as-they-go-along style?  

*happy dance, happy dance, happy dance*

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Demented Daisy said:

BuddyTV interview w/Misha -- Cas hunting down Lucifer, getting his mojo back, etc.

The most interesting bit to me:

You mean they're actually planning ahead again?  No more of Carver's make-it-up-as-they-go-along style?  

*happy dance, happy dance, happy dance*

Jared has said in the past that he was given outlines with Carver and that he read 4 to 5 episodes ahead. I'm wondering why you think Carver made it up as he went along?

[Demented Daisy]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm wondering why you think Carver made it up as he went along?

Interviews in which he said they were just throwing stuff at a wall to see what stuck.  (Not Sam and Dean, the writers.)  I remember an interview with Bob Singer in which he said that they had no roadmap.  Things like that.

Plus, having scripts in advance does not mean that they had a plan for the season.  It just means that they aren't writing the script as they are filming it.

[catrox14]

I saw that interview with Singer. I'm not sure how much I believed him about that. I think they had ideas if those weren't really planning out they would try something else rather than stick with a plan that was not working.  He said Charlie's murder was just where the story took them and well no, that's bullshit. That's the story his wife wrote. I thought Carver had a pretty definite plan with Dean taking the Mark of Cain. I don't know if demon!Dean was part of that plan. Carver said he planned for Sam to always do the trials in s8.

Anyway, I was just curious. Thanks for the reply.

I think it's weird that we've not had ANY tidbits beyond the sizzle reel.

ETA; I know they write 4 to 5 episodes ahead. I know they don't write and film at the same time.  Usually.

[goldy]

 

[goldy]

Fans on set:

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by goldy

[catrox14]

I was trying to figure out if that cemetery was the same one in s11 finale and in my quest I came across these from ep 12.01

http://yvrshoots.com/2016/07/shoot-supernaturals-baby-on-location-in-delta-with-dean-jensen-ackles.html
 

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Supernatural started filming season 12 — yup 12 — on Tuesday. And went on location with Baby — Dean’s 1967 Chevy Impala — on Wednesday and today in Delta’s North 40 Reserve Park. One of Supernatural’s favourite locations in metro Vancouver. Dean himself — Jensen Ackles — shared a photo from set.

There were at least three different Babys on set at the start.

 

 

Quote

 

Supernatural started off the new season with a new production sign — JAFTS.

 

Previous signs — JMATWB — are believed to have been an acronym for Jim Michaels at Wreck Beach.

JCBS to have been Jeremy Carver Bobby Singer.

BSK to have been Bike Shorts Kevin.

And the long ago classic — KMAN — a tribute to the late producer and director Kim Manners.

Fans have some ideas for what JAFTS stands for:

Quote

 

JAFTS has to mean Jensen Ackles For The Sexy! Right @TheJimMichaels?#Supernatural #SPN12 https://t.co/MZtnLG8HWC

— B.J. Peterson (@bjxmas) July 13, 2016

@yvrshoots @AndreaDeMill Jared always farts then smiles

— Michelle (@wombatvet) July 14, 2016

Knowing the sense of humor that comes up with those signs, my guess is Just Another F**king Tv Show. Not that it is https://t.co/rGYFec4iuJ

— Jilly #AKF#YANA#LYF (@jillyrulz) July 13, 2016

@yvrshoots "Jensen Ackles Forgot To Shave" perhaps? His shaving habits have been a minor news topic in the past.

— Travis Hill (@triple_aardvark) July 16, 2016

 

 

[SueB]

Jason Fischer (Vancouver Production Coordinator) posted a picture on twitter https://twitter.com/JasonFischer77 which shows him reading a script.  Above his head is this white board:

Jason appears to be reading the pink script (ep 5).  The rest show the script "status".

What is clear from this is that they have EP12.1-12.11 mapped out.  And if the dates mean "last status", then they've had the first half of the season mapped out since NLT the end of July.  Now add to that Bob Singer saying (in SDCC round table interviews) that they deal with Mary in the first half of the season and then the Brit MoL show back up as something to deal with in the second half of the season.  To me it's clear, Mary's story arc finishes with the mid-season finale as a cliff hanger that resolves in January (EP 10) when they come back.  And EP11 is the start of the new direction.

[catrox14]

I'd love to see the changes between the production draft scripts and after the network gives its notes. Like how much will change

[pixelcat]

Sort of spoilers?

[catrox14]

That's cool. I think she did a good job directing Red Meat.  I didn't actually like the episode and I thought SuperSam surviving like he did was super ridiculous but I blame Dabb and Berens for that. What I appreciated about her directing was allowing the camera to stay on the actors faces and letting Jensen's non-verbal acting come through to show us Dean's thought process and emotions throughout the episode.  I hope they give her a better script the next time. 

[Binns]

On August 9, 2016 at 4:31 AM, goldy said:

Fans on set:

 

I wonder if Sam Smith is in costume there...if so, the boys come by their clothing choices from BOTH parents! 

[Boopsahoy]

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I thought SuperSam surviving like he did was super ridiculous but I blame Dabb and Berens for that

I thought it was a take off of The Revenant. That's how I took it and I'm pretty sure they confirmed that on twitter. I loved the actress that played the werewolf's wife. She did a great job.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

I thought it was a take off of The Revenant. That's how I took it and I'm pretty sure they confirmed that on twitter. I loved the actress that played the werewolf's wife. She did a great job.

Even being was an homage to the Revenant, it was still ridiculous. Sam survived a gunshot wound, almost bleeding out, and fought off 3 werewolves, drove who knows how far to the hospital and got there just in time to save Dean who had just survived a drug overdose. If I rolled my eyes any harder they would have fallen out of my head. Sorry it was just TOO much lol.

[goldy]

Misha Collins and Mark Sheppard — were spotted filming on North Road in Coquitlam:

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by goldy

[goldy]

Please, please, please, anything you can tell me about my fave show,Supernatural? —Lisa

Oh, this is a bit more than “anything.” “We’ve got something really cool coming up in Episode 5, where it will be the triumphant or not so triumphant return of the Thule, who have decided to enact their master plan and bring back Hitler,” showrunner Andrew Dabb tells us. “And the way we describe our Hitler is ‘a psychotic Richard Simmons,’ so a little different than the standard portrayal. Sam and Dean are going to fight Hitler, and that’s opening up some interesting doors for us in terms of just doing some more crazy stuff.”

http://tvline.com/2016/08/12/arrow-season-5-spoilers-oliver-brutal-fight-felicity-guilt/

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, goldy said:

Please, please, please, anything you can tell me about my fave show,Supernatural? —Lisa

Oh, this is a bit more than “anything.” “We’ve got something really cool coming up in Episode 5, where it will be the triumphant or not so triumphant return of the Thule, who have decided to enact their master plan and bring back Hitler,” showrunner Andrew Dabb tells us. “And the way we describe our Hitler is ‘a psychotic Richard Simmons,’ so a little different than the standard portrayal. Sam and Dean are going to fight Hitler, and that’s opening up some interesting doors for us in terms of just doing some more crazy stuff.”

http://tvline.com/2016/08/12/arrow-season-5-spoilers-oliver-brutal-fight-felicity-guilt/

WAT? Look bring back the Thule for an episode. Bring back Aaron. I would LOVE to see Aaron and the Golem. Bring back the Nazis for an episode. But actual HITLER? WTF? Zombie!Hitler? Do they think this is going to be like fucking Agents of Shield with Hydra or something  

Unless this involves time travel to the 40s and Dean in another uniform this sounds insane and not in a good way.

So much for going smaller, Dabb. I mean seriously, HITLER? What the hell? I have a bad feeling about this.

[Demented Daisy]

36 minutes ago, goldy said:

Please, please, please, anything you can tell me about my fave show,Supernatural? —Lisa

Oh, this is a bit more than “anything.” “We’ve got something really cool coming up in Episode 5, where it will be the triumphant or not so triumphant return of the Thule, who have decided to enact their master plan and bring back Hitler,” showrunner Andrew Dabb tells us. “And the way we describe our Hitler is ‘a psychotic Richard Simmons,’ so a little different than the standard portrayal. Sam and Dean are going to fight Hitler, and that’s opening up some interesting doors for us in terms of just doing some more crazy stuff.”

http://tvline.com/2016/08/12/arrow-season-5-spoilers-oliver-brutal-fight-felicity-guilt/

Sounds like one of their lighter episodes.  It's tickling my brain; the idea of a "screwball" Hitler has been done before, but I can't remember where I saw it. Benny Hill, maybe?  South Park did something similar with Osama bin Laden -- he was Elmer Fudd to Cartman's Bugs Bunny.

But I could be misinterpreting Dabb.

[catrox14]

Oh see I didn't get the impression it's a one episode event. I got the idea that it will be an ongoing arc.

I've see the South Park episode and it was hilarious. But that required the deft comedic touch of the South Park guys...and I'm not convinced SPN can pull off that kind of thing...unless they have Ben Edlund back to write the episode.

Edited August 12, 2016 by catrox14

[Diane]

I took it as a one off episode too, but maybe I read it wrong.  I think it sounds like a goofy MOW episode and I really like those.

[goldy]

Going by Andrew Dabb's SDCC interview, its a one episode thing. Not an arc.

(See from 4:20 to 5:00)

Edited August 12, 2016 by goldy

[catrox14]

I understand that the 5th episode might be the Thule stuff and he also said it opens up other crazy things which is why I thought it was a longer term arc. Sounds like whatever they do in 5 is setting up more things in the future. That's my interpretation anyway.

[DittyDotDot]

I thought he meant it would open up for crazier things in that episode. But you never know with this show. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

l. Sam and Dean are going to fight Hitler, and that’s opening up some interesting doors for us in terms of just doing some more crazy stuff.”

This is the part I'm talking about.  Seems peculiar to talk about opening doors to doing more crazy stuff if it's all contained in one episode. 

[SueB]

I'm thinking the Thule resurrection process took an already deranged Hitler and makes him worse. 

I thought it was just a one off.