Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[371012]

Castle was a much better show 9 episodes in than it is now, too...maybe Firefly would have sustained multiple seasons without declining, but we'll never know. As with many others, can't help but think if they'd had a season more like the last three episodes than the last two seasons we'd all be in a happier place.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, madmaverick said:

I'm curious about the syndication money actors get.

I'm guessing (as I have no experience in the TV industry) it is dependent on a few factors: The contracts negotiated with the show via the actor's agent (and the agent's cut), how long the series is on the air in first run, and perhaps how much the series sells for to enter syndication.

Again, however, these are mere assumptions on my part, although it all seems logical to me.

And besides syndication, there are online and DVD sales, too.

Even if the checks are only a few cents per episode after the first run-through, depending on the contract and how many cycles the show has, I don't think ANY actor on a successfully-syndicated show is ever hurting. It all accumulates!

[FlickerToAFlame]

I read somewhere once that the guy who played Gunther on Friends is set for life just based on syndication. 

[tessaray]

http://www.marketplace.org/2014/10/24/business/ive-always-wondered/how-do-actors-make-money-residuals 

[westwingfan]

I believe Castle's success was built on the clever mix of light and dark episodes, with the emphasis on light. Fillione's forte was the comedy, I cringed at some of his attempts at being dramatic, and despite being the "name" to draw people to the show Stana quickly established herself in the eyes of many as being just as crucial to the show. None of the other characters were developed over the years in the way that they have on a show like Bones, but that was OK because the chemistry between the two leads was what really made the show watchable. Stana always seemed very enthusiastic about the show until there seems to have been a shift after S6 when rumours surfaced that she was less inclined to keep going.

I can understand TPTB being reluctant to give up such a good thing, especially with the lack of an obvious replacement waiting in the wings, so trying to launch some sort of spin off utilising Castle's fanbase would seem to be good business sense, but what I can't understand is why they seem hellbent on turning the show into a tragedy, as all things point to Beckett being killed off, and alienating a good chunk of that fanbase. Giving Caskett a happy send off and then moving into full Castle P.I. mode, as a sort of modern day Jim Rockford, would seem to have been the lesser of all evils if they didn't want to continue with Stana, the show could have become even more the comedy platform that fillione seems to favour. The weakness in that plan would have been how do you include his daughter but ignore his wife, however, actually killing off his wife, with all that ought to mean to how the character would be expected to behave after such an event, losing the love of his life after just over a year of marriage, and being wracked with guilt if the rumours that Beckett sacrifices herself by jumping in front of a bullet meant for him, would seem to be an even bigger millstone for the success of any follow on to S8. How could this guy who we have seen talk incessantly about Yin and Yang and "Always" resume his life as the fun loving character who believed in magic after any amount of therapy and time jumping. This should be a dark cloud on the heart of that character that he would never likely get over completely, yes he would carry on, even resume writing, probably foregoing his pulp fiction for more serious themes, but could he totally return to that Castle of the earlier seasons.

By killing off Beckett TPTB seem to be making a mockery of what the show was about and what came before, it all seems very pointless for it to end that way.

Edited May 5, 2016 by westwingfan

[BellyLaughter]

I keep asking myself that again and again and again.  Castle may be written to have recovered from his grief after a token and patronising time jump but I won't and will ALWAYS rue what could have been.....throwing away 8 seasons of storytelling.....throwing away the happy ending so many fans have been rooting for since the really early days of this show.... Yep, talk about making a mockery....

Edited May 5, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[femmefan1946]

I don't know any current fan sites. There have been a few fan films made and thousands of fanfics (but fewer than Castle).

At cons it is normal to see Kaylee, Mal and Wash cosplayed, while cosplays from longer running shows like Farscape or Battlestar Galactica are unusual. There are charity showings of Serenity many times a year, and of course there are the filksongs.

Stop me........ please......

[verdana]

On 04/05/2016 at 5:25 AM, HospiceDoc said:

Ding!Ding!Ding!

I am one of those that left.  I didn't mind the focus being more on Beckett, per se, but it was so poorly done and so angsty.  It wasn't fun anymore.  I think by making Beckett superwoman with mommy issues (Batman, anyone?) it sucked the life out of the show.  Additionally Castle, the character the show was named after, became a buffoon in bad clothing.  I am excited about a season 9.  

I agree they overdid Beckett's tissues and issues to a point where it started to be a real drag but unfortunately they did nothing good with Castle your description is perfect "buffon in bad clothing" because that's how he's come over to me for the last few years. 

I do hope Fillion is smart enough to realise that carrying on down that road is not a good idea and he smartens up and not just in the clothing department. I've heard some say they feel Castle is now just Fillion goofing around and although I don't know the man obviously I am seriously starting to wonder if there's some truth to this. What I do know is if they wanted to tempt me to watch they would have to change Castle back to the guy he used to be not this clown and dial down the crass slapstick. 

As for the fan outrage as someone mentioned ABC have been here before, Castle isn't the first and won't be the last show to get rid of beloved character. They were prepared to take the heat over the separation supposedly and didn't care what fans thought and ratings pretty much stayed the same for all the furore. They must have done their research and decided keeping Castle and ditching Katic was worth the risk.

The network and showrunners give me the impression they tend to view the online fanatical fanbase as akin to some dangerous wild animal that needs locking in a cage and keeping at arms length, they put up with us under sufferance but dismiss any fuss they cause.

As for Beckett dying, that's being taken as fact by many fans the way the discussions are going and whilst it's a strong possibility we must remember there's been no confirmation anywhere or serious leak from the set that proves this is the case. 

Edited May 5, 2016 by verdana

[pennben]

I think it was a good thing I was traveling for a few weeks when this news broke!

I said somewhere else, much earlier this season that I could watch the PI show.  Now, I'm not so certain. It feels like all signs indicate that there is going to be a bad ending to what we know now as Castle.  Knowing that Kate will likely be gone in a bad way to pave the way for next year disappoints me and makes me less likely to watch.

I don't think my anger at the ending I suspect is going to happen is at the levels of the "How I Met Your Mother" ending, which has made it impossible for me to watch a single repeat of the show because of how awful that ending was.  I guess I'm holding out hope that the end of this season isn't that offensive to me so that I can go back and watch episodes from earlier seasons and maybe watch going forward.  I note however, that I have three episodes on my DVR that I think will stack up more until I see the end and decide whether to watch them.

Regardless, my feelings and dealings with the show have nothing to do with whether it should move on.  For the fans that want it to, I hope it does. I really do. For me, if I am disappointed and done, I'll just stop watching.  That's all.  We can all get our own way!

[TWP]

Yep I know there's a strong Firefly following. I was more interested in listening in on how they felt about the loss of Beckett on Castle. Is it something these fans have been clamoring for and ABC felt that granting their wish would be good for ratings? I know that many of them have felt that Beckett stifled Castle to the point of nonexistence. I remember in the early days of the show, you'd see quite a number of Firefly fans on Castle forums. Now they are rare. Maybe a degraded Castle was a turnoff to them. They've left and will return for a Beckett-less Castle. I just wanted to hear what Firefly fans were saying out of curiosity, but couldn't find a good place to do that.  

Yeah some fans are confident that killing off Beckett is the only ending that would allow Castle to proceed as a show, but they will be more likely to squeeze a few  more years out of the franchise with a less baggage laden ending for her. Thus,  I have to think they have something more creative plannned..a naive thought I know, considering the history of PTB. 

Yes, the network has been to this outrage rodeo before. They have somehow calculated the risk as being minimal this time.  We like to think we matter, but more and more, we don't. ABC's and PTB's answer is to block negative opinions. I hear they've even cut some people from the advisory board. Maybe if the especially outraged fans would quiet down, calm dissent would be listened to. Right now, they probably group all of us into the same screaming band.

I think those driving the charge of sexism would be better served increasing the visibility of shows that feature women, rather than pushing for canceling shows like Castle.  Make woman-driven television a powerful force, then networks like ABC would have to come along....although personally I think ABC is a little better than the others in regards to women. Castle let four women go in the last year or so, but they replaced Montgomery with a woman and then hired 2 women as regulars in a year. They've only hired one additional male regular in the course of the whole show. That was Vikram.

[pennben]

Honestly, from some of the BTS stuff I've read, it cracks me up that the network and the show decided to not kill Beckett last season because they were worried about it coming back-to-back with Patrick Dempsey being killed off on Grey's.  I'm sure that it seemed a sound decision at the time, but now they are taking out a female character in a season when it has become notable for the number of women (gay/straight/lead/other woman role) being offed on shows!!!

Why did so many female characters die on TV last week?;   TV's Spring Makes Westro's Winter Seem Tame.

I know that there are a thousand and one reasons a particular woman can be written off a particular show, but sometimes it feels like maybe something more is involved when looking at the aggregate. Again, just noodling here....

Edited May 5, 2016 by pennben

[BlakesMomma]

1 hour ago, TWP said:

I think those driving the charge of sexism would be better served increasing the visibility of shows that feature women, rather than pushing for canceling shows like Castle.  Make woman-driven television a powerful force, then networks like ABC would have to come along....although personally I think ABC is a little better than the others in regards to women. Castle let four women go in the last year or so, but they replaced Montgomery with a woman and then hired 2 women as regulars in a year. They've only hired one additional male regular in the course of the whole show. That was Vikram.

Vikram doesn't even really count since he's not even a regular cast member, only a "recurring guest" star.  And his screen time all season has been pretty minimal.  The regular cast has been 5 women to 3 men since Montgomery died.  IMO those claiming "sexism" have merely found a way to package their Stana/Beckett outrage to fit a hot button topic in the news cycle.  They really lucked out with the Kelly Ripa timing.

[TWP]

56 minutes ago, BlakesMomma said:

Vikram doesn't even really count since he's not even a regular cast member, only a "recurring guest" star.  And his screen time all season has been pretty minimal.  The regular cast has been 5 women to 3 men since Montgomery died.  IMO those claiming "sexism" have merely found a way to package their Stana/Beckett outrage to fit a hot button topic in the news cycle.  They really lucked out with the Kelly Ripa timing.

They're also counting Tory as one of the 4, so Vikram counts too, then. Of course, nobody cared that Gates and Tory were cut until Stana was also cut, so they are certainly beefing up the count to make a point.

Kelly Ripa is making all the grocery store rags, while Katic is not.  ABC really blindsided Kelly.  She was supposed to show up and work the next day after the announcement!  But Kelly may have been responsible for taking the show away from Regis Philbin, who knows. Ageism is just as alive and well as sexism in Hollywood.  Maybe karma is biting her now.

I don't think Stana could possibly have been blindsided, the way they were marginalizing her character all along this season.  For whatever reason, they were planning on writing her out.

Some have claimed that the direction of the show for the last few seasons has been sexist, e.g. taking Beckett down a peg, etc, so this isn't a new charge for the group that has accused the show of sexism.  But the other way to look at it is that Nathan Fillion signed on as the #1 person.  For the first few seasons, the writers made Stana Katic the defacto #1 person, so who was really stealing the limelight? Nathan now, or Stana then?   I think the acting talent is pretty even between the two, so it isn't that Stana was some kind of mega-talent that took a tiny role and made it huge.  They wrote Beckett as a huge character, and Castle as a supporting cast member.  I'm pretty sure that's not what Nathan thought the show would be when he signed up.  I don't fault him for fighting for his position.

But honestly, it's neither here nor there to me if these actors get extended, cut, or sent to Siberia.  I just want entertainment on my TV.  I'm hoping that Castle next season will remain entertaining.

Edited May 5, 2016 by TWP

[CheshireCat]

I find the titles of the episodes since the news broke kind of ironic - Backstabber, Hell to Pay ...

[Annec]

8 hours ago, verdana said:

I do hope Fillion is smart enough to realise that carrying on down that road is not a good idea and he smartens up and not just in the clothing department. I've heard some say they feel Castle is now just Fillion goofing around and although I don't know the man obviously I am seriously starting to wonder if there's some truth to this. What I do know is if they wanted to tempt me to watch they would have to change Castle back to the guy he used to be not this clown and dial down the crass slapstick. 

As for the fan outrage as someone mentioned ABC have been here before, Castle isn't the first and won't be the last show to get rid of beloved character. They were prepared to take the heat over the separation supposedly and didn't care what fans thought and ratings pretty much stayed the same for all the furore. They must have done their research and decided keeping Castle and ditching Katic was worth the risk.

 

I think Fillion is suffering from what seems to be a "boys club" with Hawley that isn't reining in the silliness factor.  It seems pretty clear to me that NF prefers comedy to drama (although I think his best moments have been his most dramatic episodes, the kidnapping two-parter and "Always" stand out in my mind) but he needs someone to limit his flights of fancy or he can veer into childishness.

The showrunners said they were ready for the audience to be mad at Beckett and the separation but they sure did start walking it back quickly with lots of interviews reassuring viewers that there wasn't going to be a permanent break.  Looking back, I think they were hoping the audience would lose patience with Beckett's stupid obsession with Loksat.  Unfortunately for them, the audience lost patience with the poor writing instead.

[madmaverick]

12 hours ago, tessaray said:

http://www.marketplace.org/2014/10/24/business/ive-always-wondered/how-do-actors-make-money-residuals 

Thanks for that.  Interesting to read.  I didn't realise that anyone with a line of dialogue (so even if Lanie hadn't been a regular she could have made $$ with 'lividity' heh) or scripted physical interaction, i.e. "special business" (sounds dirty heh), qualified for residuals.  I thought it was just the regulars or recurring as well at most.  So I guess jobbing journeyman actors would really prize getting a guest spot on syndicated shows that would get repeat airings.  And no wonder even quality movie actors are up for joining crime procedural shows.  In an age when it's so hard for shows to even make it all the way to the end of a first season, much less last till syndication, I can understand actors wanting to stick with a show when it does last and being wary of throwing away a good thing that may never come around again in their careers.  Creative concerns may not be their uppermost concerns except to do the best they can with the scripts they are given.  If the network/studio makes the decision that a show is viable, then who are they to turn down the work for what could be a period of unemployment?  I can understand that way of thinking. 

Quote

Some have claimed that the direction of the show for the last few seasons has been sexist, e.g. taking Beckett down a peg, etc, so this isn't a new charge for the group that has accused the show of sexism.  

I really wish people would stop citing those few words said by Marlowe in some interview once upon a time as evidence of some sexist conspiracy or as evidence of anything else.  Marlowe was famous for his foot in mouth disease too.  I remember him mentioning how his whole idea about Beckett's drunken marriage came from this late night TV he was watching where the woman had gone through the same thing.  What Marlowe said wasn't different to me to what any number of showrunners and actors have said about characters needing to stumble from time to time.

In a show where the female lead has always been presented as the alpha, almost always leading and having control over the male lead, and presented as besting him at just about anything, I really find the claim that the show was sexist towards women to be absurd.  Stana did have less screen time this season but that may well be due to the lesser working hours she negotiated for herself.  So while Beckett was on screen less, that could be due to the wishes of her portrayer.  While a lot of people took issue with Beckett's storyline this season, she was still characterised as a strong, "badass" ;), woman who was leading a team of men as well as waging her own personal crusade against the evil that is Locksat ;), even putting that ahead of her marriage (post feminism? ;)), so I fail to see how the show was sexist towards Beckett.  She was still championed in just about every way.  

I've also noticed that Castle has been a show that employs quite a few female directors and female minority directors at that.  Maybe it's part of a concerted program at ABC to promote women in directing.  ABC has a female president and is known as the network with a lot of women driven shows featuring lots of strong women, so again, the case for sexism hasn't been made to me either generally or in this specific instance

I think the ABC honchos probably took note of Grey's Anatomy killing off Patrick Demsey's character, male lead and one half of their main love story, and living on to survive and even flourish this season.  I don't watch the show so don't know how they've handled it creatively and if there's been a creative resurgence from that storyline leading to better ratings.  I don't know if all the heartbroken Mer/Der fans are still watching or they all quit and the improved ratings are due to a new audience.  I am not saying what works for GA works for Castle, but if ABC's primary concern is to squeeze a crime procedural into their schedule at lower cost, that could explain why they think a Beckett less Castle is worth a bet.

It sucks that Stana wasn't offered the chance to continue with the show, but let's say she was ready to move on anyway, and there were signs even last year that she was (and I don't think that cable project she mentioned trying to develop is a new thing that just came out of the blue), and if the end result would still have been the same- her exiting, rest of cast continuing because ABC wanted to continue- the result for the story of Caskett could have been the same.  Would people then still be shaming the rest of the cast for carrying on?  If they wouldn't have blamed Stana for leaving, then they shouldn't blame people for wanting to continue.  

[femmefan1946]

I don't think Firefly fans think much about Castle, any more than they do Suits (Gina Torres) or Homeland (Morena Baccarin).

There were squees of  delight on the Agents of SHIELD boards when Ron Glass turned up briefly.

ComicCons have both helped keep the fandom alive, and killed it by monetizing it. There is no reason for fan groups to organize, because it's being done for them by the Con (and studio) bureaucrats.

Which is why the ConMan crowdfunding was such a revelation.

Three friends have an idea (Tudyk, Haarsma, and Fillion) and hope to raise a few hundred thousand dollars for a couple of webisodes. In 24 hours they raised over $1 000 000! rising to about $3 000 000 by the end of the fundraising month.

And on Free Comic Book Day, this Saturday, you can get a comic about the fictional cancelled TV show, bound with a new Firefly comic. I for one will be hauling my elderly ass downtown for that and wishing I owned a Jayne hat.

BTW-- I apologize for the giant pictures above. I thought you'd just see links. I should have learned from the Holy Avenger picture. Sorry.

[TWP]

1 hour ago, femmefan1946 said:

Which is why the ConMan crowdfunding was such a revelation.

Three friends have an idea (Tudyk, Haarsma, and Fillion) and hope to raise a few hundred thousand dollars for a couple of webisodes. In 24 hours they raised over $1 000 000! rising to about $3 000 000 by the end of the fundraising month.

 

And this, my friends, is a hint about why they chose Fillion over Katic, if indeed there was any truth to the budget cut story....although I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some of those "donations" weren't from the fan base.  Astroturfing is rampant on the internet.

Edited May 5, 2016 by TWP

[Kromm]

22 minutes ago, TWP said:

And this, my friends, is a hint about why they chose Fillion over Katic, if indeed there was any truth to the budget cut story....although I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some of those "donations" weren't from the fan base.  Astroturfing is rampant on the internet.

The budget story is likely bullshit--the numbers just don't work IMO, since they basically act like Katic is paid more than Jon Huertas, Seamus Dever and lets add in Molly Quinn, all in combination I mean. I SO doubt that's the case,

Other shows have ditched their supporting casts, kept their main leads, and gone from there. So acting like it was either Fillion or Katic, or the show just couldn't afford to put episodes on tape, is total hogwash.

Not that it matters to your larger point that Fillion is the one with the large built in enthusiastic fanbase. So if you have to pick one (probably for the reasons everyone actually suspects) of COURSE you're going to pick Fillion. I mean assuming you aren't smart enough to simply end the show on a high rather than the low they're now going to end it on after their likely little half season next year.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Kromm

[tessaray]

I tried Castle S1 because of Nathan and Firefly but didn't like it. I happened to catch a bit of live show a few years later and was hooked by the geeky humor and sparkly chemistry between the 2 leads. It was probably somewhere in the 3rd season because I know I dvr'ed most of the 4th and didn't miss any by the 5th. The FF fans I know IRL, half watch Castle, half don't. And it's pretty evenly divided by gender.

[Thak]

50 minutes ago, TWP said:

And this, my friends, is a hint about why they chose Fillion over Katic, if indeed there was any truth to the budget cut story....although I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some of those "donations" weren't from the fan base.  Astroturfing is rampant on the internet.

In my opinion the crowd funding for Alan Tudyk's Conman series could have made far, far less money and ABC would have still made the decision they did.  In fact if Conman didn't exist at all ABC would have made the same decision. 

[Heathrowe99]

I am a Firefly fan who found Castle because of NF. I mostly read these forums because I am interested in what is going on with my captain.  I was happy that he found a series that didn't get canceled. I stopped watching regularly after season 3 or 4ish, due to the buffoonish humor that people mentioned above. Nathan Fillion actually used to be really good at bringing the drama and the action/adventure-that's part of what makes Firefly great-so I just felt like he was being wasted and it wasn't worth my time. Also-either I got an HD tv at that point, or they started shooting video instead of film, but the show got not visually appealing at some point, and that matters to me.  I think Stana is gorgeous, and good in her part, and I do think they have great chemistry, but I'm not invested in her in any way. I also don't hate her at all, or feel like if she's gone it will make a better show that I would watch.  I honestly wish they would just cancel Castle and maybe spin off to Derrick Storm if they want to keep using NF in this universe. I don't see how they can keep Esposito and Ryan around and not have Beckett without killing her off. 

[TWP]

37 minutes ago, Thak said:

In my opinion the crowd funding for Alan Tudyk's Conman series could have made far, far less money and ABC would have still made the decision they did.  In fact if Conman didn't exist at all ABC would have made the same decision. 

My point is that Nathan is popular with a super wide range of folks.  He also went on one of the most popular shows on TV (Big Bang Theory) to play himself.  This, the ConMan success and his success at Cons are examples of his popularity, especially with the Marvel crowd.  ABC probably sees him as "potential".  As much as some people don't want to admit it, he's more popular than Stana.

Edited May 5, 2016 by TWP

[Thak]

4 minutes ago, TWP said:

My point is that Nathan is popular with a super wide range of folks.  He also went on one of the most popular shows on TV (Big Bang Theory) to play himself.  Those are examples of his popularity.  As much as some people don't want to admit it, he's more popular than Stana.

 I think most people would agree he's more popular outside of Castle, I'm not debating that, I'm speaking to the decision ABC made in regards to keeping the Castle brand going.  Perhaps as much as some people don't want to admit it, ABC is trying to use the Castle brand to fill some shortcomings in their schedule, and that is why they went with the titular character in regards to extending, spinning off this particular show.

Now of course if the show comes back and the Castle family is gone, and "Castle" is no longer in the title of the show, well, then it might not have been about keeping the brand alive.  

[Cyranetta]

Quote

Knowing that Kate will likely be gone in a bad way to pave the way for next year disappoints me and makes me less likely to watch.

The difficulty is that it's hard to imagine any way that Kate can be gone in a good way. If she dies, depressing. If she and Castle are divorced, hard to believe and it makes Castle a triple-divorcé which is kind of icky. If she goes into witness protection or is jailed, that avoids the kind of resolution which frees Castle to be the comic P.I.

And never forget that Firefly had more going for it than just a rather well-rounded cast - it had Joss Whedon as showrunner, who probably has an even more devoted fan base.

It's sort of darkly funny that Nashville, also in a perilous position for renewal, is also being lambasted for lousy writing ("are they trying ensure cancellation?").

[verdana]

Quote

 

Stana Katic Central ‏@StanaCentral  59m59 minutes ago

RT @BecklebeeCastle: #Spoiler #Castle Finale from Michael Ausiello : Beckett is not going be in witness protection as far he is knows

 

Quote

 

Stana Katic Central ‏@StanaCentral  1h1 hour ago

RT @BecklebeeCastle: #Castle from Michael Ausiello He says "Don't know if it will be the show you like, but pretty sure it's coming back"

 

Castle 8x21 Sneak Peek - Castle Season 8 Episode 21 Sneak Peek “Hell to Pay”

[westwingfan]

19 minutes ago, verdana said:

Stana Katic Central ‏@StanaCentral  59m59 minutes ago

RT @BecklebeeCastle: #Spoiler #Castle Finale from Michael Ausiello : Beckett is not going be in witness protection as far he is knows

 

He said the witness protection spoiler was meant to be for Brooklyn Nine Nine, and he took it out becasue he realised that it aired before the May Sweeps.

[WendyCR72]

I still believe Susan Sullivan was hinting at the ultimate outcome. But who knows? In any case, Beckett's fate will soon be known. But - and as much of a downer as it is - maybe she walks away from Castle "for his own good" or because the whole Mom business has made her realize she isn't cut out for the white picket fence and she needs to work on herself alone.

Maybe that's more acceptable than death. But the fact is, no matter how this plays out, I don't see it ending in a good place for C/B.

[westwingfan]

2 hours ago, tessaray said:

I tried Castle S1 because of Nathan and Firefly but didn't like it. I happened to catch a bit of live show a few years later and was hooked by the geeky humor and sparkly chemistry between the 2 leads. It was probably somewhere in the 3rd season because I know I dvr'ed most of the 4th and didn't miss any by the 5th. The FF fans I know IRL, half watch Castle, half don't. And it's pretty evenly divided by gender.

I'd never heard of either of them before I started watching. I was not impressed by the promo for when the show was first aired in the UK, I don't like the sort of person that the Castle character was depicted as, a cocky braggart playboy so I didn't watch. However when I was visiting my youngest daughter while she was living in Spain around S4 I became hooked when I was "forced" to watch because it was one of the few shows that you could switch to the original English as they dub everything, (the girl who dubs Stana will now also be out of a job I guess). After watching a few episodes I realised Castle wasn't quite the obnoxious character I thought he was going to be and I really liked the way Beckett seemed to complement him and their partnership quickly made Castle my favourite show. Subsequently got all the DVD's up to S7 event though my unconditional enthusiasm started to wane after Still, and now I can't envisage the show without the two of them. Fillione might have a broader fanbase than Stana but I'm not sure it is more equal as far as Castle goes, and I'm not sure that even with Stana gone that those of his fans who aren't already watching will be attracted if S9 is still identified as Castle.

[CheshireCat]

12 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I still believe Susan Sullivan was hinting at the ultimate outcome. But who knows? In any case, Beckett's fate will soon be known. But - and as much of a downer as it is - maybe she walks away from Castle "for his own good" or because the whole Mom business has made her realize she isn't cut out for the white picket fence and she needs to work on herself alone.

Maybe that's more acceptable than death. But the fact is, no matter how this plays out, I don't see it ending in a good place for C/B.

Not for me. Because it still wouldn't make the eight years I (and many others) invested in the relationship worth it and it also wouldn't make what Castle and Beckett overcame to be together and what they had to go through to be together worth it. I spent eight years rooting for them, wanting them to find each other, to get that happily ever after that they both wanted so any sort of separation, death, divorce, etc would destroy the magic that was built and would be utterly frustrating. Because it would mean that there's no pay off for anything, because separation through death or divorce means that they fought for nothing.

[TWP]

Still rooting for all a dream, it was all a book reading, it was all a TV script he was showing to ABC (too meta?).....

Please don't kill Beckett.

PS:  I'm still wondering about the last item on this page....had to divorce her because he couldn't have children? ::chuckles::

Edited May 5, 2016 by TWP

[Heathrowe99]

I don't think they can spin these past 8 seasons as a dream, but they could end this season with a cozy Caskett scene where he is struck with inspiration and starts dreaming up a new book series, and this time, he doesn't need a muse-he's the inspiration this time for the main character/private investigator. So maybe Ryan and Espo are still there, but their characters might change slightly to become caricatures of themselves. And the character he is dreaming of is a dashing, unmarried man of mystery so that enables Beckett/Stana to fade off and allows this new character played by NF to have comic romance with guest stars, since I am guessing they aren't going to want to go the co-star route again. 

[westwingfan]

21 minutes ago, TWP said:

Still rooting for all a dream, it was all a book reading, it was all a TV script he was showing to ABC (too meta?).....

Please don't kill Beckett.

PS:  I'm still wondering about the last item on this page....had to divorce her because he couldn't have children? ::chuckles::

Ouch!!!. So Castle P.I. returns with a falsetto voice. LOL

[partofme]

I think I'm an anomaly in the Castle fandom.  I'm a girl whose always watched more for the mystery than the romance because I love procedurals.  I've never seen Casket(hate the name) as some great romance.  I've tolerate ether as a couple, they didn't bother me but I never cared about their relationship either.   And I've never especially liked Beckett. I found her to be more relatable in season one with her original face and find her very Mary Sueish with the used to be a model crap.  I won't particularly miss Becket, that said, I can't see how the show can go on with a dead Beckett or with a divorced Castle still working at the precinct.  I like the it was all a story that Castle's been reading idea.

Edited May 6, 2016 by partofme

[Castle75]

http://deadline.com/2016/05/abc-castle-renewal-season-9-1201750300/

 ABC has till the end of the day tomorrow May 6th to make a decision about S9.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Castle75

[KaveDweller]

So I just saw this Tweet from Rob Hanning with an early draft of the script for Recoil.  He has notes from Marlowe about starting with a Caskett moment that gets interrupted. I should find that sad, but it's just hilarious to me that that's a note to intentionally do that.

https://twitter.com/RobHanning/status/728371972279656448

[BellyLaughter]

48 minutes ago, Castle75 said:

http://deadline.com/2016/05/abc-castle-renewal-season-9-1201750300/

 ABC has till the end of the day tomorrow May 6th to make a decision about S9.

I would say it's a forgone conclusion.  I did enjoy the not so subtle dig in that article!  

[371012]

I was thinking if Casket take down Locksat together, head home, congratulating themselves, then time jump to next season five years out and learn that Beckett got run over by a bus or something totally unrelated to a crime or her rabbit holing, that would at least be ironic. And Castle used to appreciate irony. If she dies fighting crime and they remember even a shred of his character I don't see how they do goofy PI and flavor of the week.

[verdana]

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

So I just saw this Tweet from Rob Hanning with an early draft of the script for Recoil.  He has notes from Marlowe about starting with a Caskett moment that gets interrupted. I should find that sad, but it's just hilarious to me that that's a note to intentionally do that.

https://twitter.com/RobHanning/status/728371972279656448

Yeah sad but funny at the same time, goes to show that the inherent attitude problems of the writers towards this couple and how to portray them in a relationship didn't start with Hawley they were ingrained with Marlowe, I see many fans forgetting that, then again these clowns have been doing such an awful job they're making Marlowe look like a genius lol. 

I see with the deadline news twitter is all a flutter in a new outpouring of outrage the show is daring to continue, that's showbusiness it's about the business.

Castle's Nathan Fillion Set for Potential Season 9 After Inking New Deal, TV Line's version 

I notice they compare it to Bones but the comparisons between the two couldn't be more glaringly different at this point but then I guess it's much easier if both leads actually enjoy each other's company and want to work with each other. 

2 hours ago, 371012 said:

I was thinking if Casket take down Locksat together, head home, congratulating themselves, then time jump to next season five years out and learn that Beckett got run over by a bus or something totally unrelated to a crime or her rabbit holing, that would at least be ironic. And Castle used to appreciate irony. If she dies fighting crime and they remember even a shred of his character I don't see how they do goofy PI and flavor of the week.

That would be way too prosaic from Hawley, the guy is clearly dead set on going out with explosions and gunfire and although I find the idea of her getting killed in a very mundane fashion more fitting after all the angst and drams she's been through I can't see this current writing team allowing that to happen, no Beckett will go out in a blaze of......I was going to say glory but that's inappropriate there's going to be nothing glorious about it. 

As for "goofy" Castle I suspect that's what fans will be getting served up from now on with Fillion's blessing, they forgot the old version a long time ago in favour of this more clownish, bumbling strangely almost effeminate character. Freed of the chains of the romance (which Nathan was honest about and never enjoyed) and having Beckett around to drag things down into any moments of seriousness or reflection (which were pretty slim in any case) means they can go full bore on slapstick comedy capers. Beckett will quickly be forgotten there's no way they'll taint the weekly fun and games with Beckett call backs especially if she dies. 

For some inexplicable reason Fillion seems to enjoy playing Clown!Castle which I don't find remotely attractive or interesting as a character but then actors can be odd like that. 

Edited May 6, 2016 by verdana

[westwingfan]

48 minutes ago, verdana said:

For some inexplicable reason Fillion seems to enjoy playing Clown!Castle which I don't find remotely attractive or interesting as a character but then actors can be odd like that. 

 

Maybe ABC will move the show to their comedy night as a new half hour romp.

[femmefan1946]

Beckett is killed in a horrific motorcycle accident, trying to avoid a mother duck shepherding her ducklings across a road?

[verdana]

It's pretty much comedy hour now so yeah why not. I know fans say it's always been based on comedy nothing has changed but I disagree. Sure it's always been light hearted in nature and never set itself up as a gritty crime procedural but what I loved about the show in the early years was the way it blended the comedy (which was far more nuanced and witty back then) with the more serious reflective moments for the characters. That all gradually dissipated as they went between two extremes of either over the top drama or clownish capers led by Castle as the court jester. 

[BellyLaughter]

16 minutes ago, femmefan1946 said:

Beckett is killed in a horrific motorcycle accident, trying to avoid a mother duck shepherding her ducklings across a road?

I almost expect her demise to be accompanied by the Benny Hill theme music!

[westwingfan]

58 minutes ago, BellyLaughter said:

I almost expect her demise to be accompanied by the Benny Hill theme music!

They can't afford the royalties, have you noticed how the recent seasons have contained far less of those memorable tracks than before, Stop and Stare, The End, Just Breathe.

1 hour ago, femmefan1946 said:

Beckett is killed in a horrific motorcycle accident, trying to avoid a mother duck shepherding her ducklings across a road?

In keeping with the new comic book style of the show SPLAAAAAT, KPOOOOOOW. Maybe fillione will start wearing his underpants outside his trousers for his new costume.

[TWP]

1 hour ago, westwingfan said:

In keeping with the new comic book style of the show SPLAAAAAT, KPOOOOOOW. Maybe fillione will start wearing his underpants outside his trousers for his new costume.

Isn't that superhero garb? Tights with the undies on the outside? ;-). Luke might be thankful if he gets cut (for budgetary reasons).

I don't think Beckett will go out in a fiery blaze. Stana has mentioned more than once that the show can't afford explosions. Instead, she'll die via one of those cartoon guns with the flag that says "bang".  Unfortunately someone will have loaded too much gunpowder into the chamber so that when it's fired, she'll be hit by resulting shrapnel.  All with a laugh track, of course.

Edited May 6, 2016 by TWP

[westwingfan]

25 minutes ago, SweetTooth said:

I can just hear the Mother Ducker jokes now.

You beat me to it LLOL

The ABC feedback page doesn't seem to be working at the moment, and a friend who is a member of the Advisory Panel has just told me he can't access that either.

I have an image of TPTB sitting in a room with their fingers in their ears saying LALALALALALALALA.

[BellyLaughter]

8 minutes ago, westwingfan said:

You beat me to it LLOL

The ABC feedback page doesn't seem to be working at the moment, and a friend who is a member of the Advisory Panel has just told me he can't access that either.

I have an image of TPTB sitting in a room with their fingers in their ears saying LALALALALALALALA.

They made their bed - now they have to lie in it! And a lot of fans are only just waking up to this info!! 

[TWP]

41 minutes ago, westwingfan said:

You beat me to it LLOL

The ABC feedback page doesn't seem to be working at the moment, and a friend who is a member of the Advisory Panel has just told me he can't access that either.

I have an image of TPTB sitting in a room with their fingers in their ears saying LALALALALALALALA.

10,000 people can't take down a TV show, but they can take down a Web site. And that is what ABC is trying to avoid. Castle anti-fans took down ABC'S Web site! ->A headline that is bigger than the reality behind it. 

Yep, lalala. They don't care. They have factored this outrage into their equation. The more buzz, the more looky loos will be generated to come see the train wreck. And when no train wreck happens, then they may just have some new viewers. I think we're all subjects in an experiment, rats in their little maze. As usual.

[371012]

No motorcycle crash, that would be Castle's fault, too, since he got it refurbished for her. But I am finding all of us amusing. I realized we are all much better at smart, tongue-in-cheek humor than the writers are. Too bad we can't get paid the big bucks to cleverly write for an intelligent audience!!

[S55]

Not sure who's having trouble accessing the ABC Studios Advisory Panel boards, but FWIW I can view them just fine. Can't speak for the feedback page on ABC's website.