Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[Sara2009]

Could someone provide a link please?

[WendyCR72]

No links on the board. PM. These articles only breed the shit, and it's circular. As it is spec and NOT proven, there's no value to it here. Yes, this is titled Spec and Spoilers. But related to the on-screen show. So if anyone wants dirt, do it privately.

 

Thanks.

[metaphor]

Rob Hanning just posted this, together with a picture of him and Stana:

 

Robert Hanning ‏@RobHanning 17m

@Stana_Katic 

Thanks dude. For all of it. You fucking rock.

 

Given these "budget cuts," I wonder if he'll still be connected to the show if it comes back next season.

Edited April 23, 2016 by metaphor

[BellyLaughter]

I wonder if the exert from the 'Still' script he posted yesterday is hinting that he has decided the time has come to move on

Edited April 23, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[BellyLaughter]

I like the witness protection option....she isn't dead and the bad guys don't necessarily win...

[WendyCR72]

I like the witness protection option....she isn't dead and the bad guys don't necessarily win...

 

Yeah, but it also leaves Castle married/tied to Beckett. I think S9 - as it is envisioned - is trying to not have that, be it fair to the fans or not. And TV Line's answer as to Beckett's fate doesn't sound hopeful.

[BellyLaughter]

Oh I'm under no illusion that Beckett is gonna make it out of this one alive - just sounding my preference.

[femmefan1946]

Witness protection?

For LokSat?

She doesn't seem to have any knowledge about it beyond the name.

More likely would be getting called up by the disciplinary board for her many many contraventions of acceptable police practice. (In the last episode alone, she accepted the torture of a prisoner by a random private investigator and allowed the same PI to take a laptop out of police custody and hack into it.)

Bounced from her job, she has a nervous breakdown and retreats to a private hospital for treatment of her PTSD, stemmng from her mother's death when she was a teenager, leading to her dropping out of her pre-law studies and drunkenly marrying a petty criminal.

As part of her recovery she realises that her relationship with Castle, who opened up the Pandora's Box of her mother's death and set in motion events that exacerbated her mental illness, is noxious .

Coming to a decision that she has really bad taste in men.

She divorces him, returns to her law studies and eventually enters politics working particularly against police and political corruption with a side interest in victims' rights.

[BellyLaughter]

and scene.

[verdana]

People can decide for themselves if this is legit.  But supposedly someone from the costume department posted a comment in reply to one of the tabloid articles and fans verified his name from imdb.

https://twitter.com/...553409744297984

Either way, I'm with him, where do people get this shit? ;)

 

Apparently he's the "key costumer", I admire Mr Moore's wish to stick up for Nathan but is he partly responsible for Castle's awful wardrobe I've had to suffer all these years? Boo!

Edited April 23, 2016 by verdana

[TWP]

Witness protection would also involve Beckett returning periodically to the show with plastic surgery and a new character name. Only Castle and the viewers would know that it's actually Beckett. It all goes along with Nathan's talk about how soap opera stars are dispensible and could be replaced with a simple pre-show announcement: "So and so is now being played by actor-ex." Castle could have a different pseudo-Beckett every week, since in TV land you can have a completely different face via plastic surgery without the scar-tissue driven destruction that would happen in real life. We'd have a case of the week AND Beckett of the week!

I kid.

I didn't want Stana Katic to lose her job, but I'm glad that I won't be tempted to endure any more of the recent stilted, awkward, cringeworthy, stand-in laced, "Caskett" scenes on my TV ever again. The season is over and Caskett is done, as far as I'm concerned. Watching Castle is like DVRING yesterday's news. Can't get interested in something that is sooooo very OOOOVER. I do not want to see how they cut her. It's funny how I evolved to this point in a day, but I have.

If ABC wants to keep Nathan, giving him a fresh start with a new show is best for everyone (now) involved, Nathan, ABC, Castle, the fans. Do a Derek Storm spinoff or something. No more Castle. Please. Let's be done with it.

[westwingfan]

Someone claimed on another board some time ago that Fillion is in much demand with his choice of future roles just waiting for him to pick up, so I'm curious as to why, after he stated in an interview that he liked the British habit of ending a show when it was on top and not letting things drag on for a slow death, he seems willing to cling to his role as Castle when it has been limping along for some time and whether it ends now or after a shortened S9 can hardly be described as going out at the top, and now has additional baggage from the events of the past week.

Edited April 23, 2016 by westwingfan

[mbutterfly]

I would give the show a happy Caskett ending. In the fall, I would have Castle PI start 2 or 3 years later as a widower who writes PI procedurals and does PI stuff for his writing material. By then he would still be sad, but he would logically have gotten on in his life. 

[BellyLaughter]

Someone claimed on another board some time ago that Fillion is in much demand with his choice of future roles just waiting for him to pick up, so I'm curious as to why, after he stated in an interview that he liked the British habit of ending a show when it was on top and not letting things drag on for a slow death, he seems willing to cling to his role as Castle when it has been limping along for some time and whether it ends now or after a shortened S9 can hardly be described as going out at the top, and now has additional baggage from the events of the past week.

Because he was just paying lip service to Castle fans saying that OR he isn't as in demand as we are lead to believe??!! I sort of admire his moxie in thinking this show has life sans Beckett....maybe he knows something us fans don't??

[westwingfan]

I would give the show a happy Caskett ending. In the fall, I would have Castle PI start 2 or 3 years later as a widower who writes PI procedurals and does PI stuff for his writing material. By then he would still be sad, but he would logically have gotten on in his life. 

What sort of happy Caskett have you in mind if you have Castle P.I. coming back as a widower?

[Julia]

I guess it's just going to come down to whether Nathan Fillion can carry a show, which I think is an open question. The successes he's been involved with in the past - OLTL, Two Guys, Desperate Housewives, Buffy - he's been part of an ensemble cast, and not the most prominent player. Shows and movies where he's been the lead haven't done well in the market, although they're well thought of by genre fans. His attempts to float himself for Green Lantern, Ant Man and Avengers 2 didn't really go anywhere (and it's not as if he didn't have at least one person at Marvel, at least, who really likes to work with him).

 

The outlier is Castle, but it's only an outlier if people are actually tuning in to see Nathan Fillion as Castle rather than Nathan Fillion as half of Castle and Beckett. He and whoever is making these decisions at the network apparently think so. I'm not convinced. According to the most recent published information, his Q score is down significantly, from 6th in prime time to a tie for 17th, and he hasn't exactly been holding himself to the standard of physical preservation demanded of female actors.

 

And just speaking for me, I was never particularly in love with Richard Castle, but I thought it was believable that Beckett was. And WADR to Molly and Toks, who seem to be competent young actors in thankless roles, neither of them has shown me anything onscreen that would make me like a character through the eyes of their characters, neither of whom appear to be staggering under the weight of their respect for him anyway.

 

The happy news for people who want the show to go on after Beckett goes into the sub zero (I assume) is that I'm usually wrong about how popular stuff like this is going to be.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Julia

[Thirteen]

I guess it's just going to come down to whether Nathan Fillion can carry a show, which I think is an open question. The successes he's been involved with in the past - OLTL, Two Guys, Desperate Housewives, Buffy - he's been part of an ensemble cast, and not the most prominent player. Shows and movies where he's been the lead haven't done well in the market, although they're well thought of by genre fans. His attempts to float himself for Green Lantern, Ant Man and Avengers 2 didn't really go anywhere (and it's not as if he didn't have at least one person at Marvel, at least, who really likes to work with him).

 

The outlier is Castle, but it's only an outlier if people are actually tuning in to see Nathan Fillion as Castle rather than Nathan Fillion as half of Castle and Beckett. He and whoever is making these decisions at the network apparently think so. I'm not convinced. According to the most recent published information, his Q score is down significantly, from 6th in prime time to a tie for 17th, and he hasn't exactly been holding himself to the standard of physical preservation demanded of female actors.

 

And just speaking for me, I was never particularly in love with Richard Castle, but I thought it was believable that Beckett was. And WADR to Molly and Toks, who seem to be competent young actors in thankless roles, neither of them has shown me anything onscreen that would make me like a character through the eyes of their characters, neither of whom appear to be staggering under the weight of their respect for him anyway.

 

The happy news for people who want the show to go on after Beckett goes into the sub zero (I assume) is that I'm usually wrong about how popular stuff like this is going to be.

 

Do you happen to know Stana's Q score in regards to other actresses in prime time shows? I've always been curious about that.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Thirteen

[Julia]

Do you happen to know Stana's Q score in regards to other actresses in prime time shows? I've always been curious about that.

 

You know, that's weird. I know she has one - they publish that much at least on the free portion of their site - and this would suggest that it was fairly respectable at the time when the female version of the Wrap story was published, but she (along, weirdly, with Amy Acker as Root and Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White) was left out of it. I'm assuming that the network thought she was enough of a draw to take her back after the series was renewed without her for this season.

 

I don't think she could carry a show aimed at male 18-49s either, honestly, although I'd definitely give something else she showed up in a shot. Maybe a buddy cop show with Nicole Beharie :)

Edited April 23, 2016 by Julia

[TWP]

What sort of happy Caskett have you in mind if you have Castle P.I. coming back as a widower?

I'll bet I know. She could pass away AFTER the Season 8 finale.

Or my own input is he could say he'd had enough with her obsessions. She left him in the Season 8 way several more times during the time leap period and he divorced her years ago. Castle will be rebounding rather than grieving.

I wonder if "Marlowe in Exile" will still be on the show credits, taking his heartbrokenness to the bank over cutting Stana rather than simply canceling the show....maybe another reason to do a new show is to save money by eliminating Marlowe's creator money...although it's probably too late for next year.

I wonder a little if the reason for the dearth of relationship talk from Season 5 on was to not get us more attached to Beckett before they cut her.

Edited April 23, 2016 by TWP

[mbutterfly]

What sort of happy Caskett have you in mind if you have Castle P.I. coming back as a widower?

She doesn't die in the last show. She's fine. All is good. No gloomy foreshadowing. No foreshadowing at all. 

In the fall, it's a few years later and, let's say, she died quickly in an auto accident. History. That's my best shot. 

[Julia]

maybe another reason to do a new show is to save money by eliminating Marlowe's creator money...although it's probably too late for next year.

 

If he's considered one of the creators of Richard Castle, he's going to get creator money as long as that character is on the show.

[TWP]

Julia, you're maybe listing ranking rather than raw Q score? something that is hard to compare year to year as more stars are added and some drop off.

According to your link, right now his Q score is 24, a measure where a higher number is better. He is tied with Mark Harmon, not a shabby place to be.

[westwingfan]

She doesn't die in the last show. She's fine. All is good. No gloomy foreshadowing. No foreshadowing at all. 

In the fall, it's a few years later and, let's say, she died quickly in an auto accident. History. That's my best shot. 

I'm expecting her to end the season bleeding out after jumping in front of a bullet to save Castle and we get a remake of the the Knockout scene. Maybe,even the same dialogue, Hawley has just loved revisiting old episodes this season.

[TWP]

If he's considered one of the creators of Richard Castle, he's going to get creator money as long as that character is on the show.

I was thinking a whole new show, although if the idea was similar, Marlowe could possibly sue.

[Sonik Tooth]

If ABC wants to keep Nathan, giving him a fresh start with a new show is best for everyone (now) involved, Nathan, ABC, Castle, the fans. Do a Derek Storm spinoff or something. No more Castle. Please. Let's be done with it.

As a consumer I would like to see a clean cut too, but I think it might not fit with what the network and all other parties involved want to do. For once, the new series couldn’t possibly start coming Fall. And I don’t know how they balance stuff in the US or do their investment and costing regarding TV shows, but new series, new costs with a new risk of being profitable at all (as opposed to at least a bit profitable). Furthermore, as far as I know, Derek Storm is rather Derek Storm heavy,  meaning Nathan would have to agree to re up his working hours.

 

Someone claimed on another board some time ago that Fillion is in much demand with his choice of future roles just waiting for him to pick up, so I'm curious as to why, after he stated in an interview that he liked the British habit of ending a show when it was on top and not letting things drag on for a slow death, he seems willing to cling to his role as Castle when it has been limping along for some time and whether it ends now or after a shortened S9 can hardly be described as going out at the top, and now has additional baggage from the events of the past week.

Others may have claimed but as far as I know, he often talks about how it is not the way it is. He isn’t sitting on a stack of TV and movie roles enjoying the multiple choices he has.

 

What he might enjoy (speculating here what actors may like) is being employed, working in an environment that throughout the years perfected the work flow, having nice colleagues, having a workload that may leave time for smaller projects he enjoys.

 

Downside of just quitting may involve disgruntled executives, disgruntled managers and moving to the UK (where they apparently handle things differently) to avoid unemployment.

 

I wish a lot for too, but that doesn’t mean I have the power to make it happen nor would I quit my job over it if in the long run I’m not sure I’m going to find what makes 80 percent of my job great with another institution.

[Julia]

Julia, you're maybe listing ranking rather than raw Q score? something that is hard to compare year to year as more stars are added and some drop off.

According to your link, right now his Q score is 24, a measure where a higher number is better. He is tied with Mark Harmon, not a shabby place to be.

 

Well, it appears to me that as he's become better known he hasn't become more popular. Mark Harmon is the choice of the same percentage of a much bigger group of people, if I'm understanding this correctly.

 

I'm not saying Fillion's not popular, just that his popularity with non-genre audiences doesn't appear to be quite as universal as his popularity with genre audiences, and as POI learned, those don't always carry shows.

[CheshireCat]

BellyLaughter, on 23 Apr 2016 - 02:18 AM, said:

I like the witness protection option....she isn't dead and the bad guys don't necessarily win...

 

But they already said they're wrapping up LokSat in the finale and even if not, why would only Beckett go into witness protection when Castle is just as involved (now). If they want witness protection to make sense, they would both have to go (of course, they also threw plausibility out the window at the beginning of S8, so who knows. Still they did say LokSat will be wrapped up).

[Sonik Tooth]

The outlier is Castle, but it's only an outlier if people are actually tuning in to see Nathan Fillion as Castle rather than Nathan Fillion as half of Castle and Beckett. He and whoever is making these decisions at the network apparently think so. 

I don’t think it’s fair to say he thinks so just because he might be continuing his role as Castle. And I suspect if ABC had a better run this year with their other shows, the whole show would have been history (and I guess it’s still time to make it history).

 

 

His attempts to float himself for Green Lantern, Ant Man and Avengers 2 didn't really go anywhere (and it's not as if he didn't have at least one person at Marvel, at least, who really likes to work with him).

I think he answered fan questions at panels who he would like to play in the ComicVerse? But I may have missed him lobbying for more.

 

I don’t think Castle has much of a chance without Beckett either, unless they alter it. Go more ensemble for example which they might have to do anyway (if NF stays with his workload). As for the character of Richard Castle,  in general, I don’t find him interesting enough (since about season 3) to carry a show alone, partly due to the fact that he just isn’t written that interesting (as in WYSIWYG) and partly because the show hasn’t been that consistent about all their characters.

[madmaverick]

Someone claimed on another board some time ago that Fillion is in much demand with his choice of future roles just waiting for him to pick up, so I'm curious as to why, after he stated in an interview that he liked the British habit of ending a show when it was on top and not letting things drag on for a slow death, he seems willing to cling to his role as Castle when it has been limping along for some time and whether it ends now or after a shortened S9 can hardly be described as going out at the top, and now has additional baggage from the events of the past week.

I have zero idea about Nathan (or Stana's) actual career prospects but every time he's spoken on the subject, he's always said that the reality is far from that.  He's also mentioned more than once his year of unemployment back in the day after he did Saving Private Ryan where he was struggling with less than nothing and living on credit, and it sounded like that period of his life had a big impact on him.  In a recent Q&A, he referenced that period as teaching him a lot- to appreciate work, to be grateful and to save money.  He didn't sound like a guy to me who would ever wish unemployment on anyone, actor or otherwise.  I'm not an actor but maybe the job insecurity really weighs on you, and also, maybe a good, steady paycheck with syndication money like Castle is already like winning the lottery in Hollywood and may never come around again in this tough TV environment, and actors think about that.

 

Personally, as I've said before, I think it's time for Nathan and Stana and everyone involved with Castle to find their creative joy elsewhere.  But I do understand that everyone also has more practical considerations.

 

You're asking if a woman might be blamed by the Internet?  REALLY?  Go see... every other time.

 

 

I agree that women often get the unfair share of the blame from misogynist voices, but it's also not fair to me to blame a man for "bullying" or "victimising" a woman (regardless of gender, really) in the absence of anything other than tabloid fare and anon "sources".

 

I think she would have been tarred, feathered and burned at the stake.  In cases of conflict, women always get attacked worse.

 

 

Isn't that what's also happening to Nathan right now from incensed and mostly female Stana fans?  

 

Probably not, I guess, which is why they're just doing whatever they "need" to not have Fillion walk (which I'm sure he threatened to do).

 

 

You're sure he threatened to walk?  Did Stana also threaten to walk?  Pray tell, inquiring minds want to know.

 

The thing is, everyone can sit and do the shoulda, woulda, couldas, but in the end, nothing changes. If ABC wants this to go on, it will, be it with a new audience, existing audience who watched as a diversion and not for the romance...or ABC axes it.

 

 

Which is why I have reservations about any active fan campaign to cancel Castle, if that is indeed what's happening.  I'm not following it.  Campaign to bring back Stana by all means, but to campaign for people to essentially lose their jobs?  That doesn't sit right with me.  

[Julia]

Yeah, I think you may have. The one that sticks out in my mind is the SDCC when he was running around in a Green Lantern suit (and wearing it for an Entertainment Weekly portrait) while they were casting that role, but he's done quite a bit of hinting he's available.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Julia

[BellyLaughter]

I have zero idea about Nathan (or Stana's) actual career prospects but every time he's spoken on the subject, he's always said that the reality is far from that. He's also mentioned more than once his year of unemployment back in the day after he did Saving Private Ryan where he was struggling with less than nothing and living on credit, and it sounded like that period of his life had a big impact on him. In a recent Q&A, he referenced that period as teaching him a lot- to appreciate work, to be grateful and to save money. He didn't sound like a guy to me who would ever wish unemployment on anyone, actor or otherwise. I'm not an actor but maybe the job insecurity really weighs on you, and also, maybe a good, steady paycheck with syndication money like Castle is already like winning the lottery in Hollywood and may never come around again in this tough TV environment, and actors think about that.

Personally, as I've said before, I think it's time for Nathan and Stana and everyone involved with Castle to find their creative joy elsewhere. But I do understand that everyone also has more practical considerations.

I agree that women often get the unfair share of the blame from misogynist voices, but it's also not fair to me to blame a man for "bullying" or "victimising" a woman (regardless of gender, really) in the absence of anything other than tabloid fare and anon "sources".

Isn't that what's also happening to Nathan right now from incensed and mostly female Stana fans?

You're sure he threatened to walk? Did Stana also threaten to walk? Pray tell, inquiring minds want to know.

Which is why I have reservations about any active fan campaign to cancel Castle, if that is indeed what's happening. I'm not following it. Campaign to bring back Stana by all means, but to campaign for people to essentially lose their jobs? That doesn't sit right with me.

I'm anti those campaigns if not for any other reason than they raise false hope.

[TWP]

Well, it appears to me that as he's become better known he hasn't become more popular. Mark Harmon is the choice of the same percentage of a much bigger group of people, if I'm understanding this correctly.

 

I'm not saying Fillion's not popular, just that his popularity with non-genre audiences doesn't appear to be quite as universal as his popularity with genre audiences, and as POI learned, those don't always carry shows.

 

You don't know how his raw popularity (among those who know him) has changed without knowing his previous raw Q score.  The "rankings" without the backup data can be counted differently depending on the article and depending on who moves in and out of the list.  We have the list for the article that counted him 17th, but we don't know how the article that listed him 6th counted the scores.  Yes, Mark Harmon is much better known.  I speculate that this is greatly due to the fact that he has an 8pm show.

 

Nothing in the rankings say anything about genre audiences versus general audiences.

 

I'm not saying Nathan is more or less popular than he was before.  What I'm saying is we can't judge that based on these two articles that present the data in very different ways.

 

PS:  Does anyone else hope that the big board upgrade includes the addition of nested posts? ;-).

[madmaverick]

Yeah, I think you may have. The one that sticks out in my mind is the SDCC when he was running around in a Green Lantern suit (and wearing it for an Entertainment Weekly portrait) while they were casting that role, but he's done quite a bit of hinting he's available.

Thanks to wiki, Green Lantern the movie was cast between July 2009 and Feb 2010 which I believe was before Nathan had his EW cover.  I have no idea when he wore a GL suit at SDCC.  According to imdb, he was the voice of Green Lantern in 2011, which may explain why he wore the tshirt for his EW cover and referenced GL otherwise.  If I were him and was going to be jealous of anyone, I'd be jealous of Ryan Reynolds after being on the same show together, with him being cast as GL, and a second chance with Deadpool, and meeting his wife on set.  But he's always spoken highly of Reynolds and said he'd cast Reynolds as GL too as he was far better looking etc.  They appear to be buds.

 

Previously, there was some sort of fan campaign to get Nathan cast in Uncharted the movie back when it was going to be directed David O. Russell (move is still in development hell to this day) and he urged fans not to do that as it doesn't really help with casting and can even backfire. 

[TWP]

Which is why I have reservations about any active fan campaign to cancel Castle, if that is indeed what's happening. I'm not following it. Campaign to bring back Stana by all means, but to campaign for people to essentially lose their jobs? That doesn't sit right with me.

 

So right.  It may be that the support staff can move on to other shows, but maybe not without some slightly painful transition time.  I know humans want validation and fans are mad.  The best way to validate their feelings is by a wave of anger that shuts down the show.  But would it really be satisfying in the end?  Seems like a pretty empty victory to me.

 

A note, via new edit:  You will never get me to label anyone as "hater".  People have their reasons for liking or not liking something.  Hollywood presents a product.  People have the right to say, "I don't like this and here's why" as long as they don't resort to harassing anyone.  Honest criticism should be respected and constructive thoughts should be absorbed.  And people have the right to walk away.  If the networks don't create a desirable product, actors, writers, PTB should never blame the fans for walking away.  I say this because I saw too much fan-blaming surrounding Castle at the beginning of the season.  I hope I don't see any more -- ever -- especially now that they've axed a core character.  How in the world is this the same show?  Anyway.

 

My biggest question for next year is ... who will be dumb enough to sign on as Captain?  (Given my previous statement that being Captain of the 12th is a little like wearing a red shirt on original Star Trek.  It means certain doom.)

 

Speaking of which, we've got a recent tweet from the first doomed Captain:  https://twitter.com/RSANTIAGOHUDSON/status/723855977343258624

Edited April 23, 2016 by TWP

[Thak]

lynette wich (@mxooley) twitter account.  She appears to have worked in the Art Department at Castle for 3 years, left 2013/2014?.  Her Linkin page has a blog that links back to her twitter postings. 

 

The tweet I saw is on April 18 in response to L_Peckham.  

 

 

https://twitter.com/mxooley/with_replies

 

 

 

 

After reading a few of Rob Hanning's tweets,  I'm wondering if he is going to leave Castle as well.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Thak

[FlickerToAFlame]

Wow, that Lynette Wich Twitter says flat out "Nathan is a shit."

[Kromm]

Do you happen to know Stana's Q score in regards to other actresses in prime time shows? I've always been curious about that.

 

I don't think she could carry a show aimed at male 18-49s either, honestly, although I'd definitely give something else she showed up in a shot. Maybe a buddy cop show with Nicole Beharie :)

To be brutal, but honest, it's likely wishful thinking. Frankly the main thing she has going for her now is sympathy over how this has all gone down. That's a tiny thing she likely can't leverage for long--if at all--because by the time a new show could come on most people would have moved on elsewhere with their sympathies/interest. What she is, basically, is one of dozens, possibly hundreds, of fairly interchangeable seeming actresses past that age where people in Hollywood like to cast them. Nicole Beharie actually has much better work prospects, IMO, because yes... she's younger, not interchangeable-seeming with a lot of other similar actresses to herself, and may be able to catch the attention of someone like Tyler Perry or Spike Lee or something like that and make a jump to movies. 

 

I've said it elsewhere, but if the best Stana can hope for otherwise is competing perhaps for shitty Lifetime and Hallmark Channel movies, then her alternative might be to see if she can get some Independent films.  It looks like she's done a few in the past year anyway, from her IMDB. A new TV show is possible... but I'd say unlikely. Unless she really lucks out and there's a hole in a pilot filming right about now she falls into perfectly. It happens... but then the pilot has to be picked up too... and I have a sneaking suspicion that ABC will be avoiding anything with her name on it (even Fillion is the troublemaker in the cast and not her, as OTHER rumors suggested at different times).

[roomtorome]

If the writing is good, I think NF could carry a show - no doubt.  

 

As an aside: as to the Gilmore Girls - I think anyone can watch through the end of season 4 and wind up enjoying it and feeling satisfied (because after that: splat) - But, it is doable.  I just wish I had know but I watched from the beginning and did bail for most of the last 2-1/2 years it took such a dive.

 

Maybe NF does believe a show should go out on top and he, sadly, believes this show is "on top" still.  I think all shows have a shelf life - 3, maybe 4 season and then the redundancy and changes to characters begin to made - none of which make the show better.

 

Dick Van Dyke was a smart cookie.  He ended the Dick Van Dyke show when it was at the top of the heap, saying he wanted to end it when it still had quality, etc - and, he did.  The network wanted to keep it going - he said "no."  I always admired that.  Such a terrific decision.  That show remains a wonderful watch - haven't seen it for years but when reruns were on years ago, it all held up and I never felt like it tanked - 

[madmaverick]

Wow, that Lynette Wich Twitter says flat out "Nathan is a shit."

 

From some people, being called a shit could even be a compliment, depending on the character of the person making the comment. :P  ;)

 

If the writing is good, I think NF could carry a show - no doubt.

 

Agreed.  But it's an extremely tough challenge with Castle having the baggage it has.  And I think such an aged show on a tight budget with the story baggage it has would have a hard time attracting experienced writers who would have the talent to create a phoenix out of the ashes.  I think all the good writers want to jump on shows that are new and shiny or a sure thing for renewal or have buzz and Castle is none of those things.

 

I am more positive about Stana's post Castle prospects.  Impossible to say if she'll have a role like Beckett again and do as well in one, but I don't think she'll have trouble finding TV work, if she wants it.  More likely, she probably wants to go travelling and do indies.  At least she has a comfortable financial cushion that can afford her the luxury of doing that and be choosier with any future roles.  She still has her looks, which always helps in the business. ;)  She could probably get cast as a million cops, lawyers, doctors, femme fatales if she wanted to. 

 

FWIW, I enjoyed the sneak peeks for this week's episode.  YMMV but Nathan and Stana's chemistry is still on for me.  Maybe not on fire, but definitely still there for me.  I think it's actually improved this year on some recent bits of recent seasons for me.  Hanning's episode looks good. 

[Kromm]

Dick Van Dyke was a smart cookie.  He ended the Dick Van Dyke show when it was at the top of the heap, saying he wanted to end it when it still had quality, etc - and, he did.  The network wanted to keep it going - he said "no."  I always admired that.  Such a terrific decision.  That show remains a wonderful watch - haven't seen it for years but when reruns were on years ago, it all held up and I never felt like it tanked - 

And sometimes it works out to just move on and do something else. It wasn't high art (frankly it was shit, actually), but then later on Dick was able to work for years doing Diagnosis: Murder. He hadn't burned any bridges with either Hollywood or the viewing audience.  And Bob Newhart got out of The Bob Newhart Show after I believe 5 seasons, and came back years later with Newhart--an even bigger hit. Plenty of stars have done it. And lets be honest. He's male. TV audiences are more forgiving of aging males. He might not have another show immediately lined up, but unless he really IS such a bastard that word has spread and people refuse to work with him, Nathan Fillion (before this mess) should have been perfectly okay with ending Castle on a high, using his leverage with ABC to get a production deal, and shopped them a new series starring himself as a followup.

 

Now that's ruined. The bad press from this will mean any chance Fillion might have had at setting up a follow up production deal for himself is fucked. He's P.R. poison now. Probably the only actor in worse P.R. straights in terms of getting a new show is Julianna Marguiles (who's also totally fucked--if she's smart she'll head to other kinds of things like Independent movies too--in fact 2009's City Island with her was so delightful I almost doubted the nastiest rumors about her just because of how charming she was in it).

Edited April 23, 2016 by Kromm

[Julia]

Well, there's a Rizzoli and Isles-shaped hole on TNT now...

 

I've never gotten the impression from her that she was more interested in having a high-profile career than in working, and she should have a few bucks tucked away. I don't see her (either of them, really) getting anything this high profile again, but I think there's a fair amount of work available for journeyman actors if they're willing to do it.

[Kromm]

Well, there's a Rizzoli and Isles-shaped hole on TNT now...

And likely hundreds of pilots being shopped to them to replace it... Edited April 23, 2016 by Kromm

[humean316]

http://dishnation.com/castle-feud-behind-the-scenes-nathan-fillion-stana-katic/

[FlickerToAFlame]

She not only called him a "shit" but flat out said Stana's exit is all his fault. She seems as mad as the fans.

[madmaverick]

She not only called him a "shit" but flat out said Stana's exit is all his fault. She seems as mad as the fans.

Isn't she a Stana fangirl?  I don't have any interest in digging up her twitter but I see a lot of Stana stuff.  All I'm saying is that most everyone has a bias at this point.  

[CheshireCat]

madmaverick, on 23 Apr 2016 - 3:39 PM, said:

Isn't she a Stana fangirl?  I don't have any interest in digging up her twitter but I see a lot of Stana stuff.  All I'm saying is that most everyone has a bias at this point.  

 

I was going to say, whether she worked on Castle or not, we can't be sure if she maybe holds a grudge against Fillion or doesn't like him for whatever reason or whatever. Her tweet is very immature and that makes it hard for me to believe it's the whole truth and not just a personal opinion.

[KaveDweller]

If they really wanted to continue the show without Beckett, they should have ended this season with Castle deciding to stop writing Nikki Heat and start a new series about a PI. He could tell Kate how she's still his muse because she's the reason he became a PI, so it wouldn't ruin that aspect of the show, and it could give them a happy ending. Then next season, the show we get is Castle's book.

 

Nathan plays a writer turned PI almost exactly like Castle except with no wife. Molly plays the PI''s daughter/assistant who is almost exactly like Alexis. Jon and Seamus play the PI's cop buddies that are almost exactly like Espo and Ryan. Same with Susan and Toks. They would all be characters in Castle's book based on their original characters. The story we see, would be a view of the stories Castle is writing. Everyone (except Stana and Tamala) could keep their jobs, get a chance to do something slightly different but still similar to what they are used to, and the writers wouldn't have to worry about continuity from past seasons at all. But they could use some throwbacks, because viewers would just think of it as Castle writing things that happened to him before into his book.

 

They could even have some episodes start/end with Nathan as Castle writing, and then fade into the new universe. Maybe even get Stana to guest in a couple of these. I might even be convinced to watch that show. And as a show, it might get new viewers who like that it's a story starting from scratch. I don't think a Beckett-less Castle will gain viewers, it is just a question of what percentage they'll keep.

 

The whole topic of the crew's jobs....I feel for anyone who's losing their job. It sucks, but it happens to lots of people. But everyone on the crew is someone who made a choice to work in show business, where they knew all jobs would be temporary. Most people in their industry work on movies that last for a few months or a TV show that lasts a few years. Being on an 8-season show makes them super-lucky. It's also an industry where there are constantly new shows and movie popping up where they can get new jobs. It's not the same as other industries where that's harder. So I don't think a show should continue just for the sake of people's jobs. Those people knew what they were signing up for, and that was to help tell a story. When the story's done, the job is done).

 

 

 

Her tweet is very immature and that makes it hard for me to believe it's the whole truth and not just a personal opinion.

 

Well, everything anyone says at this point is their own personal opinion. No one who is close enough to know the truth will be totally unbiased. Two people can see the same thing and have completely different opinions about it.

Edited April 23, 2016 by KaveDweller

[rspad]

YMMV but Nathan and Stana's chemistry is still on for me.  Maybe not on fire, but definitely still there for me.  I think it's actually improved this year on some recent bits of recent seasons for me.

 

Agreed.  In fact, their scenes in some recent episodes made me completely forget the separation/Lockset storyline and threw me back to seasons past.

 

I admire the creativity of your plotting, KaveDweller, but I fear the finale(s) were written with nothing more in mind than Beckett lives or dies and we come back to Castle PI in the fall.  The show for me is one with the other, simple as that.

 

Very short Sneak #4.  Is it me, but wasn't this exact scene a script snippet from a previous episode that was either cut or never filmed?  I can't for the life of me remember what episode, but I would have seen it posted on this board.  Or is my Castle brain so traumatized I'm completely making that up?

Edited April 23, 2016 by rspad

[Cyranetta]

 

I am more positive about Stana's post Castle prospects.  Impossible to say if she'll have a role like Beckett again and do as well in one, but I don't think she'll have trouble finding TV work, if she wants it.

I would think that this is a particularly good time for an actress of whatever age to find compatible TV work, since the streaming services are producing original and highly-regarded series. Broadcast channels and regular cable/satellite channels still need "product". Because there's are more options like short-term series, it might be more attractive for someone who also wants to be involved with indie films and directing.

[KaveDweller]

I admire the creativity of your plotting, KaveDweller, but I fear the finale(s) were written with nothing more in mind than Beckett lives or dies and we come back to Castle PI in the fall.  The show for me is one with the other, simple as that.

 

Oh, I'm sure you're right that they'd never do something like that and they're just going to kill her off. I just was trying to think of a better way to deal with it.....my parents used to tell me that you should never criticize something if you can't offer a better solution. So, now that I've done that I can keep criticizing the writers/ABC.

 

Very short Sneak #4.  Is it me, but wasn't this exact scene a script snippet from a previous episode that was either cut or never filmed?  I can't for the life of me remember what episode, but I would have seen it posted on this board.  Or is my Castle brain so traumatized I'm completely making that up?

 

Rob Hanning tweeted an early draft of a script for Still that had this dialogue in the opening scene, as opposed to what we really got in that episode.

 

They are literally recycling scripts at this point.

Edited April 23, 2016 by KaveDweller