Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[Emma]

I can just imagine that conversation. Thanks for coming in Stana. Let's cut to the chase. We're planning a season 9, maybe more, and you're not going to be a part of that. Oh and as a favor can you keep quiet about what's gone down here? Great thanks. Good luck in the future.

I would think Stana would keep quiet for her own sake and not as a courtesy to the network. Stana checked out a bit ago. She gives me the impression she would wash her hands of the show instead of giving a tell all. I don't think she'd want to sling shit when others can sling it right back at her as a guilty party in this too. I don't expect her to comment on the show too much in the future either. Not past the usual love for the character and fans.

If the cast really knew nothing of the change then I assume only a select few were in the know. Stana, Tamala, and whatever ABC folks. Whether they asked her to keep quiet or not, it would be easy to figure out where the leak came from. If it was Stana's camp it's not a smart way to make friends. She'd have the sympathy of most whether it broke then or the renewal announcement. It's quite possible she's bitter and petty and did leak it. What she'd gain from that I don't know. Hoping to sabotage the ratings? The future of the show? Strange behavior for someone who wanted out anyway. Stranger things have happened so it can go in the pile with the rest of the theories.

I still think ABC was the leak to get the shit storm out of the way and move on quickly as possible.

Everyone made their bed and have to live with the results now.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Emma

[anoldfriend]

The animosity and battle between SK and NF is about as interesting as Batman vs Superman. They both suck, they are both whiny, and both back stabby. They couldn't keep their damn pants on and chose their own egos over work. They tanked what was once a fabulous show, and the showrunners let the circus go on for far too long.

Get the pink needle and put down this suffering animal.

Edited April 21, 2016 by anoldfriend

[FlickerToAFlame]

The animosity and battle between SK and NF is about as interesting as Batman vs Superman. They both suck, they are both whiny, and both back stabby. They couldn't keep their damn pants on and chose their own egos over work. They tanked what was once a fabulous show, and the showrunners let the circus go on for far too long.

Get the pink needle and put down this suffering animal.

Do you have inside knowledge or speculating like the rest of us?

[TWP]

If the cast really knew nothing of the change then I assume only a select few were in the know. Stana, Tamala, and whatever ABC folks. Whether they asked her to keep quiet or not, it would be easy to figure out where the leak came from. If it was Stana's camp it's not a smart way to make friends. She'd have the sympathy of most whether it broke then or the renewal announcement. It's quite possible she's bitter and petty and did leak it. What she'd gain from that I don't know. Hoping to sabotage the ratings? The future of the show? Strange behavior for someone who wanted out anyway. Stranger things have happened so it can go in the pile with the rest of the theories.

I still think ABC was the leak to get the shit storm out of the way and move on quickly as possible.

 

Remember the Tweet a few days ago from a member of the crew, about "missing" Stana.  This was a few days prior to the announcement   Maybe Tamala didn't know, but maybe Stana knew before Friday.  If she didn't know, maybe she suspected when she wasn't approached.

 

I have my doubts that the announcement was deliberate, or else ABC might have warned Nathan not to tweet the show.  I also suspect that ABC would have refrained from announcing around an episode entitled "Backstabber".  I suspect someone else thought this would be funny or perfectly cold and calculating.

 

In hindsight, if ABC thought they'd ever fire one of the co-stars, they should have insisted on getting the fictional couple together early on.  Get them together, get over it and move on to other love interests.  Doing this would have lessened the impact of releasing one of the costars, and hey maybe they still could have a show.  I honestly think they still can, but with some blips for certain.

[CheshireCat]

TWP, on 21 Apr 2016 - 4:26 PM, said:

Remember the Tweet a few days ago from a member of the crew, about "missing" Stana.  This was a few days prior to the announcement   Maybe Tamala didn't know, but maybe Stana knew before Friday.  If she didn't know, maybe she suspected when she wasn't approached.

 

Don't know when that tweet happened but the tweet about the perfume bottle and the end of an era happened on the 14th. That was Thursday, if I remember correctly, which would have been a day before Jones said she was called. It's also the day Rob Kyker tweeted that Katic stopped by helping him wrap up. I find it entirely possible that Katic knew the day before Jones knew.

[WendyCR72]

Everyone has an opinion. Not all will agree. But attacking posters is not okay. At all. Ever. So stop, breathe, and scroll. And move on.

 

With that said, this is also not the National Enquirer site and posting incendiary accusations without any proof only breeds the negativity here, so let's have the anger but let's keep unproven accusations in check.

[TWP]

Don't know when that tweet happened but the tweet about the perfume bottle and the end of an era happened on the 14th. That was Thursday, if I remember correctly, which would have been a day before Jones said she was called. It's also the day Rob Kyker tweeted that Katic stopped by helping him wrap up. I find it entirely possible that Katic knew the day before Jones knew.

 

My memory plays tricks on me sometimes, but if memory serves, the tweet was posted by the spouse of the crew member.  People here speculated that either it was the cast member who was leaving or that the tweet would surely soon be deleted if they were talking about Stana. Gosh I wish I could find the tweet or the post here.

[CheshireCat]

TWP, on 21 Apr 2016 - 4:47 PM, said:

My memory plays tricks on me sometimes, but if memory serves, the tweet was posted by the spouse of the crew member.  People here speculated that either it was the cast member who was leaving or that the tweet would surely soon be deleted if they were talking about Stana. Gosh I wish I could find the tweet or the post here.

 

The photo itself was posted on April 13th. Someone said they thought it was from the wrap party the Friday before though. That would be a week before Jones was informed, so I'm not sure Katic would have known that much earlier. But who knows.

[whatsatool]

How can they go on without the star?

[KaveDweller]

I've never found either of the couple all that likeable from the limited amount I've seen over Twitter.  Both have LARGE egos, judging by some of Nathan's comments and Stana's regular self-portrait glamour shots.  I don't follow either one of them.  And I've said before that I will feel passionate about their careers and futures as soon as they start feeling equally passionate about mine.  I'm not holding my breath.  They are doing fine.

 

I can buy that they both have egos. But they also do seem like generally nice people. Or else they are way better actors than I thought. When I've heard Stana talk about appreciating the fans, or how the writers deserve more credit than her for how much people like Beckett. I know she's an actress, but it's always come off as genuine to me. Now Nathan doesn't always come off as genuine, but so many people talk about how great he is and they seem genuine. So, he must be a generally good guy.

 

Like I said before, no one is all good or all bad. 

That was my first thought at first until I really thought about it.   If ABC were to have thrown Katic under the bus then she would have surely fired back.  She would have done interviews and revealed the real reason she left.  If that was that Fillion was an ***hole  then you've got a potential problem.

 

I also feel like if the reason was a problem with Stana they might throw her under the bus. Or not officially, but would leak some gossip about her being a problem on set. I wonder if they are staying quiet because no one looks good in the whole story. I still don't get why ABC doesn't just wash their hands with the whole mess and cancel it. It can't be bringing in that much money for them. 

 

Remember the Tweet a few days ago from a member of the crew, about "missing" Stana.  This was a few days prior to the announcement   Maybe Tamala didn't know, but maybe Stana knew before Friday.  If she didn't know, maybe she suspected when she wasn't approached.

 

Maybe she was telling some people she wasn't planning on re-signing, but they were surprised with the announcement about them not offering anything. Or they figured the "not re-signing" talk was just talk and that ABC would convince her? I trust random crew members wife more than other actors because she doesn't care about her followers/rep, but her Tweet was pretty vague. 

[BellyLaughter]

How can they go on without the star?

Nathan is the star .....Nathan is Castle .... As far as ABC is concerned they have their star still. We hysterical fangirls just have to get over ourselves and start drinking the koolaid....

[KaveDweller]

My memory plays tricks on me sometimes, but if memory serves, the tweet was posted by the spouse of the crew member.  People here speculated that either it was the cast member who was leaving or that the tweet would surely soon be deleted if they were talking about Stana. Gosh I wish I could find the tweet or the post here.

 

That tweet is still up: https://twitter.com/jescos/status/720104777842106368

[CheshireCat]

KaveDweller, on 21 Apr 2016 - 6:33 PM, said:

 

That tweet is still up: https://twitter.com/jescos/status/720104777842106368

 

Considering that ABC just let Katic and Jones go, who knows if that guy wasn't actually let go, too...

 

And it's day 3 after the fact and still no word from Hawley or Winter...

Edited April 21, 2016 by CheshireCat

[MaryM47]

I think perhaps "anoldfriend" might just know what s/he is talking about...

 

 

Edited because it just kept cloning itself over and over...

Edited April 21, 2016 by MaryM47

[break21]

It's gone too far, People are being hurt.  It needs to stop.  It's not a fun topic anymore.

[WendyCR72]

Sigh. This is getting out of hand. WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. We likely never will unless someone writes a book. So please stop with the unproven "sources" and the digs and whatnot.

 

What's done is done and it's not changing.

 

So focus on the show if at all possible and, until/unless more emerges, I think the mud slinging has reached its limit in this thread.

[femmefan1946]

Am I the only one who remembers all the moaning and bitching about the entire Mombatross storyline , and the nickname says everything about fans' opinion of that dreary tale.

And then when it was finally put to bed, and the show could go back to a more cheerful premise of horrible murders and clever banter, instead we are dumped back into complex conspiracies and dark rooms.

With SK gone, maybe we can get back to a more sunny show whether Castle is a writer or a PI. or a writer with a PI business occasionally (like every week) working with his detective friend (Ryan) and his detective nemesis (Esposito) while his almost-adult daughter and diva mother add nuance.

 

In other words an actual ensemble show.

 

Should this be in Unpopular Opinions?

[KaveDweller]

Am I the only one who remembers all the moaning and bitching about the entire Mombatross storyline , and the nickname says everything about fans' opinion of that dreary tale.

And then when it was finally put to bed, and the show could go back to a more cheerful premise of horrible murders and clever banter, instead we are dumped back into complex conspiracies and dark rooms.

With SK gone, maybe we can get back to a more sunny show whether Castle is a writer or a PI. or a writer with a PI business occasionally (like every week) working with his detective friend (Ryan) and his detective nemesis (Esposito) while his almost-adult daughter and diva mother add nuance.

 

In other words an actual ensemble show.

 

Should this be in Unpopular Opinions?

 

After they wrapped up the Mombatross, they went one week before introducing the new conspiracy of Castle's abduction/missing time. I'm not sure if the writers are capable of really giving it up. I know some would like a sunny show where widow Castle solves crimes with the boys and Alexis, but I really have no interest in it. A lack of conspiracies would be great if Beckett was still around.

 

So.....think they'll bother releasing any sneak peaks this week?

[verdana]

'Huntsman,' 'Sleepy Hollow,' And Why It Matters When Female Stars Are Kicked Out Of Their Franchises - Forbes 
 
Castle gets a brief mention in here due to recent events.
 

Taken as a whole, along with any number of times this has happened in the past (such as when CBS fired Criminal Minds‘s two popular female leads only to bring them back after viewer outrage), the message is clear: Women on television are disposable. You can be the co-lead of a popular network series, one with a massive online fan base no less, but you’re still considered as expendable as any of Jack Bauer’s doomed lady loves. Even if you are one-half of a two-hander, you are considered inessential in a way that the male co-star rarely is.

When you’re a woman in Hollywood, no matter your stature, no matter your billing, and no matter your importance to the television show or film franchise in which you appear, you may well always have a target on your back. At the end of the day, the only indisposable part of the franchise or the hit television show is the guy. Even starring as Snow White in Snow White and the Huntsman wasn’t enough. And nor was being the co-lead in shows like Sleepy Hollow or Castle. No matter how much the fans love you, those in charge love your male co-star that much more.

I'm not sure how I feel about these sort of articles is it clear? There was the Sony leaks last year that showed female stars and execs getting paid substantially less than their male counterparts and now this latest spate of culling of female characters. As a woman I sense I should be banging the drum in support and up in arms about it but part of me feels there's more too it than a simple lack of interest or value being placed on women in Hollywood.  May be I'm being naive and not wanting to see it. 
 
I believe women in Hollywood can have it tougher sometimes than their male counterparts, I have no doubt that some unpleasant things do go on but I don't care to see female stars being treated like victims when they're often far from it. I keep reminding myself Hollywood is a business first and foremost, stars make career choices for any number of reasons that would probably baffle the hell out of many fans if they knew the truth.  I know some fans have intimated that Katic is a victim of some kind of obvious misogynist agenda this season but I've never been sold on that. 

 

The fact is Fillion has more clout and connections than she does, he's the star no matter what the Stanatics might say that she now tops him in popularity, the show prospered with Caskett as its focus true but Fillion always had top billing for a good reason, the show rested on his shoulders ultimately. It's unthinkable that Fillion could ever skip an episode - Katic was allowed to twice. That's star power and it trumps everything else, welcome to Hollywood. She may be the "co lead" but the harsh fact was she was never going to have his clout. 
 
As for Snow White and The Hunstman and the recent sequel with no Snow White that is mentioned in the article, I would have thought the lead actress having a very public fling with the director didn't exactly help matters. I wasn't that shocked Stewart didn't get to make a repeat appearance. 

 

Sorry if this transgresses your last post Wendy, I spent so long getting it typed up by the time I'd posted things had moved on. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by verdana

[verdana]

So.....think they'll bother releasing any sneak peaks this week?

Do you mean these? 

 

Castle 8x19 Sneak Peek - Castle Season 8 Episode 19 Sneak Peek “Dead Again”

 

Castle 8x19 Sneak Peek #2  “Dead Again" Season  8 Episode 19 ‪#‎Castle‬ 8.19

[TWP]

Fillion had top billing after a reasonably long career with ABC. From his own narrative about how things came about, he was on contract with ABC when he chose the Castle script out of a pile of proposals and said "that's me". And it truly was him. I'm pretty sure he plays himself during many of the character-based scenes in the show. Basically it was the perfect storm of the child-like man finds the child-like character to play. And I honestly think it's harder to find a clown than it is to find a straight person.

So with Nathan as the comedy and an ensemble group around him providing the straight-person input, things could work beyond the proposed 13 episodes, whic I'm guessing would be a trial, not a series-ending 13. He could be extended. And with sufficient time jump, even if he were a widow, it wouldn't be a sad show.

All this is said along with the assumption that Stana's current situation will catapult her to something new in a more workable environment.

Edited April 22, 2016 by TWP

[McManda]

The fact is Fillion has more clout and connections than she does, he's the star no matter what the Stanatics might say that she now tops him in popularity, the show prospered with Caskett as its focus true but Fillion always had top billing for a good reason, the show rested on his shoulders ultimately. It's unthinkable that Fillion could ever skip an episode - Katic was allowed to twice. That's star power and it trumps everything else, welcome to Hollywood. She may be the "co lead" but the harsh fact was she was never going to have his clout.

 

I'd probably argue that despite being first on the call sheet and the main character (as in, the character the show was named after; I'd actually argue that Beckett was just as important. the show was Beckett as seen through Castle so without Beckett there's no show as we know it, but that's a different argument), Nathan got less of what he might have wanted. If it's true he wanted more time off and fewer filming days, so much so that he stopped filming to demand it, they might have made concessions but he was still the one they wouldn't give time off. Maybe that's because it was "his" show and they needed him, but they wouldn't let him take an episode off. His star power got him, what? More work? I don't know if he'd count that as a win if he was looking for an easier work schedule.

 

The fact is, most of the show's big episodes and its big moments (outside of this year's episodes where Beckett was MIA and maybe Castle's randomly inserted disappearance) centered around Beckett. It was her mom's murder that drove the storylines on the show. It was her that was shot in the chest. It was her drama that kept them apart as a couple. For their lack of cliffhanger at the end of S7, what little one they has was based on Beckett's career.

 

Stana was just as important as Nathan. Beckett is just as important as Castle. But somewhere, someone forgot that.

 

And with sufficient time jump, even if he were a widow, it wouldn't be a sad show.

 

I'd disagree here, too. With a sufficient time jump ... maybe it could be not sad, exactly... but if Castle loses the love of his life it would have to be a pretty giant time jump for me to believe that he'd be okay. And even if he was no longer mourning, Beckett's death would change his character. I don't know if I'd believe he'd still be the plucky, happy-go-lucky man-child. He's never faced life altering trauma, at least that he remembers with any sort of clarity.

 

Besides, Castle is mid-to-late 40s. What kind of time jump would put him far enough away from the trauma of his wife being killed but still in a watchable age range? Does he want to play someone 10 years older? Would we buy a 60 year old Castle following around Ryan and Espo?

 

It's too much for me to think that it would be enjoyable to watch. Maybe as its own show, but not as Castle.

Edited April 22, 2016 by McManda

[Sara2009]

I think perhaps "anoldfriend" might just know what s/he is talking about...

Edited because it just kept cloning itself over and over...

He/She still didn't offer any proof, though. Edited April 22, 2016 by Sara2009

[KaveDweller]

Do you mean these? 

 

Castle 8x19 Sneak Peek - Castle Season 8 Episode 19 Sneak Peek “Dead Again”

 

Castle 8x19 Sneak Peek #2  “Dead Again" Season  8 Episode 19 ‪#‎Castle‬ 8.19

 

Well those were boring. And Beckett-less. The chemistry is all off with just Castle and the boys/Lanie. But ABC is obviously trying to highlight their new version of the show.

[verdana]

Yeah they are boring, I didn't even bother to end up watching the second one. 

 

It's funny but normally when the sneaks come out, they're all over twitter and tumblr but this time I did a double check on the blog I took them from that I had the right ones because I couldn't find them elsewhere, fans are so wrapped up in recent off set events they're obviously too distracted to bother even posting them up, then again when you look at the contents may be that's understandable. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by verdana

[TWP]

Timejump: TV is great about manipulating people into forgetting things or even wish them away. For instance, who ever gets over losing their mother? and add that Beckett's mother was murdered! But people were begging and pleading for Beckett's Mombatross to go away. The fans were just fine with Beckett never speaking of her mother again.

The right audience would accept Castle moving on in a few years. In real life, a few friends of mine lost their spouses. One has a live-in love 3 years out, and another was married in 4 years. People who need companionship move on. Good writers could induce empathy about that and even drive people to want the grief to go away. Certainly a 3-5 year jump would be plenty. Add to that the fact that if showrunners are smart, they'll work toward a new audience, since they'll lose the internet with eliminating Stana....and they'll likely target a different audience than the one they have now for economic reasons. The new audience likely won't know much about the relationship, and probably won't care.

[verdana]

I'd disagree here, too. With a sufficient time jump ... maybe it could be not sad, exactly... but if Castle loses the love of his life it would have to be a pretty giant time jump for me to believe that he'd be okay. And even if he was no longer mourning, Beckett's death would change his character. I don't know if I'd believe he'd still be the plucky, happy-go-lucky man-child. He's never faced life altering trauma, at least that he remembers with any sort of clarity.

 

Besides, Castle is mid-to-late 40s. What kind of time jump would put him far enough away from the trauma of his wife being killed but still in a watchable age range? Does he want to play someone 10 years older? Would we buy a 60 year old Castle following around Ryan and Espo?

 

It's too much for me to think that it would be enjoyable to watch. Maybe as its own show, but not as Castle.

One of my distant relatives moved on within three months of his wife dying of cancer to someone new, he's the type that can't be without a woman. I thought that was a bit much but it happens.  I expect any time jump would be say 6 months or a year, I can't see them making it longer. The fact is people do move on and find new love if they want to have a happy life and not wallow in depression, what's the correct period of time to be obviously grieving before moving on after losing someone? Different strokes for different folks as they say.  Castle especially now is not the type to mope about so I can see him plausibly moving relatively quickly on...unfortunately Castle hasn't acted much like Beckett is the great love of his life, that's what's so sad about it. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by verdana

[turnitwayup]

So next season the entire wardrobe budget is gonna go to Molly still dressing like a 40 yr old unless Luke decides to take a hike cause his muse isn't there anymore. It would be the only possible change in this whole thing is to get a new costume designer that knows how to dress all the characters appropriately.

Saw that Austillo TVLine answer and storyline wise, poor Jim Beckett. He loses his wife and daughter in the conspiracy. That's just gonna kill him. S8 would've probably been better with a House of Representatives storyline since they could've written Beckett out at the end of the season but not dead. She would be never be shown because she's meeting constituents and in DC. It's not like Captain Beckett was an interesting storyline. Ryan/Espo/Lanie with Castle solving the COTW while Beckett's political run as the season long arc with her winning would've made a smoother transition into a Beckettless s9 and kept the Caskett love story intact. Probably would've been more entertaining to see Castle and Beckett at campaign fundraisers than this LokSat mess.

[Kromm]

I've never found either of the couple all that likeable from the limited amount I've seen over Twitter.  Both have LARGE egos, judging by some of Nathan's comments and Stana's regular self-portrait glamour shots.

Isn't that a career/self-marketing necessity for her though? Her employment is literally probably dependent on her looks. She's not a horrible actress, but she's not so great that people are likely to hire her otherwise. And she's 37. That's a horrible age to finally find yourself looking for work as an actress. When the show started and she was 29-30, she could write her own ticket so to speak. Now she's (and I'm being practical, not deliberately mean) just another middle aged actress in a crowded field. 

 

The stories about her crying in her dressing room after encounters with Fillion are in all the glossy rags the past day or so, so this has gone beyond net rants now. Fillion's own tweet on this sounds about as stilted as if he's talking about some girl he worked with a decade ago rather than a few months ago. And people are tying to puzzle out if the claim it was about "budgetary reasons" is code talk for her asking for money to match Fillion (I bet she makes 70% like most other women!). It's oddly hilarious in a way, the circus that's happening, even if it's also sad.

Anyway back to her poor career prospects now (the saddest part). Competing with all of the other older-than-35/less than 55 actresses aiming for roles in the same few dozen annual Lifetime and Hallmark Channel movies that get made has got to be a scary thing to contemplate. Hopefully she has some other plan.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Kromm

[CheshireCat]

TWP, on 21 Apr 2016 - 9:42 PM, said:

Timejump: TV is great about manipulating people into forgetting things or even wish them away. For instance, who ever gets over losing their mother? and add that Beckett's mother was murdered! But people were begging and pleading for Beckett's Mombatross to go away. The fans were just fine with Beckett never speaking of her mother again.

 

Personally, I never wanted her to forget. You don't forget. But you learn to live with it, just like you learn to live with every loss. And I think Beckett had learned to live with it. Still, she had this drive to find the killer and bring him to justice and she did that with disregard to her own life. But during therapy in S4 she developed, and at the end, she gave it all up as she had realized continuing to investigate was not worth more than her own life. She was a lot more rational from then on out and a lot more of a team player. So, for me, it was never about the loss itself but about what it did to her. And then how she had moved forward and suddenly back.

 

Quote

 The right audience would accept Castle moving on in a few years. In real life, a few friends of mine lost their spouses. One has a live-in love 3 years out, and another was married in 4 years. People who need companionship move on. Good writers could induce empathy about that and even drive people to want the grief to go away. Certainly a 3-5 year jump would be plenty. Add to that the fact that if showrunners are smart, they'll work toward a new audience, since they'll lose the internet with eliminating Stana....and they'll likely target a different audience than the one they have now for economic reasons. The new audience likely won't know much about the relationship, and probably won't care.

 

 

Sure, it's realistic to move on and it wouldn't be for him to grieve forever. But Beckett is the love of his life. They built this whole show as the journey of Castle and Beckett, the journey to their happy ending. And if even they don't get their happily ever after after everything they have been through, then how could I ever hope to get it in real life? Castle is not supposed to be with someone else. From the moment he met Beckett he wasn't supposed to be with someone else. And that is why I think they should end the show with S8 and a happily ever after for Castle and Beckett so that this hopefulness the show stands for doesn't get destroyed (and we can still believe in the possibility of magic.)

[Kromm]

You know that whole "budgetary reasons" makes me feel ever sadder for poor Tamala Jones--who's plight is being less talked about in all of this. I think she may literally have been let go to help promote the idea that Stana's departure is only about money. Making Tamala literally a stupid sacrifice to maintain that. 

 

How would you like to be THAT person?  Fired just to promote a cover story?  Assuming it is one, I mean. It sucks either way--that way just sucks even MORE.

[BellyLaughter]

Personally, I never wanted her to forget. You don't forget. But you learn to live with it, just like you learn to live with every loss. And I think Beckett had learned to live with it. Still, she had this drive to find the killer and bring him to justice and she did that with disregard to her own life. But during therapy in S4 she developed, and at the end, she gave it all up as she had realized continuing to investigate was not worth more than her own life. She was a lot more rational from then on out and a lot more of a team player. So, for me, it was never about the loss itself but about what it did to her. And then how she had moved forward and suddenly back.

 

 

Sure, it's realistic to move on and it wouldn't be for him to grieve forever. But Beckett is the love of his life. They built this whole show as the journey of Castle and Beckett, the journey to their happy ending. And if even they don't get their happily ever after after everything they have been through, then how could I ever hope to get it in real life? Castle is not supposed to be with someone else. From the moment he met Beckett he wasn't supposed to be with someone else. And that is why I think they should end the show with S8 and a happily ever after for Castle and Beckett so that this hopefulness the show stands for doesn't get destroyed (and we can still believe in the possibility of magic.)

 

Yep - the possibility of magic - gone.  I don't wanna speak for other viewers but my reason for watching this show was probably because I was rooting for Beckett to get her happy ending - get  justice for her mother and her father and herself and find a way to be happy again.  Believe in the possibility for joy which she had let go of when the show started.  Without that to root for what reason do I have to watch??  To see Castle high 5 and stumble his way round PI investigation and crime scenes?  I loved Castle because of what he gave Beckett - what he was prepared to do for Beckett.  That was the heart of this story.....when they unceremoniously dumped Stana Katic from this show they pretty much stabbed it in the heart and in my heightened angry disappointed state I have tried and tried to find a sane explanation as to why ANYONE at ABC would think that's a good idea and I'm still coming up empty.  I have to say farewell to an amazing love story for reasons I cannot understand and I am expected to tune in next season for lots of PI high jinx and laughs.....that's insulting.  

 

I obviously missed the memo about this show being all about Castle and I believe the chances of the show carrying on and being successful are pretty slim.  They are prepared to put a wrecking ball through the heart of this story for a slim chance that some ridiculous alternative (that many fans have already rejected) might just give them another 13 episodes??  

 

SMH.  

 

Just end it.

Edited April 22, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[KaveDweller]

The stories about her crying in her dressing room after encounters with Fillion are in all the glossy rags the past day or so, so this has gone beyond net rants now. Fillion's own tweet on this sounds about as stilted as if he's talking about some girl he worked with a decade ago rather than a few months ago. And people are tying to puzzle out if the claim it was about "budgetary reasons" is code talk for her asking for money to match Fillion (I bet she makes 70% like most other women!). It's oddly hilarious in a way, the circus that's happening, even if it's also sad.

 

Didn't we hear that she asked for equal pay when she renegotiated last season? It seemed deserved to me at the time, she should have been getting equal pay for the past few seasons. But may not have been fair depending on how much time off was at her request.  She should have had the same amount of time off as Nathan.

 

Regarding moving on, I know someone who lost their husband of 30 years, and was married again a year later. Her (adult) children were super pissed at her, but she's the kind of person who can't be alone. However, I know someone else who lost their husband and 10 years later still hasn't dated anyone else. Everyone deals with that kind of thing differently. I think we'll get a year or two time jump, but not see Castle dating anyone else right away. Or woman will hit on him and he'll be all shallow about it because he's now put up walls of his own. Urgh.

[Emma]

I can see a 2-3 year time jump and fully expect no mention of Beckett at all. I think the character will be erased as quickly as the actress was. If they want a reboot of sorts they're not going to remind the audience of Beckett.

[oberon55]

I can see a few dumbass ways to try to move on from Beckett:

1. She's alive & off screen. Castle talks to her on the phone a lot.
2. She dies (either horribly or heroically) & Castle is completely over her by the time s9 starts.
3. They act like she was never there (maybe it was all a dream or him writing a book).
4. LokSat sets her on fire & she has to have extensive plastic surgery. That way she could look & sound completely different.

As crappy as all this sounds I have complete faith that nothing is too stupid or ridiculous for this bunch to put on the screen.
 

[BellyLaughter]

I can see a 2-3 year time jump and fully expect no mention of Beckett at all. I think the character will be erased as quickly as the actress was. If they want a reboot of sorts they're not going to remind the audience of Beckett.

 

Will Esposito and Ryan become collateral damage??  Chances are fairly high I think.  I mean if they are gonna reboot this show - the had better really reboot it.  Don't half arse it if you're gonna implode the story that has been told so far.....erasing all traces of Beckett is merely the starting point and the 12th and Esposito and Ryan are traces of Beckett.

Edited April 22, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[femmefan1946]

So next season the entire wardrobe budget ....Luke decides to take a hike cause his muse isn't there anymore.

 

Keep looking on the bright side!

 

As to moving on, as DH's grandmother told us "Don't ever go for a long engagement when you are over 90". Her fiance wanted to put off their wedding until his wife had been dead for six months. Unfortunately, he died before that. Which was both very sad and quite hilarious.

I am a bad bad person.

[verdana]

I believe it was Halwideman who quashed the idea Katic was being massively underpaid as many fans assumed, of course it depends if you believe they were a credible source, I have to say I thought she sounded legit. 

Sure, it's realistic to move on and it wouldn't be for him to grieve forever. But Beckett is the love of his life. They built this whole show as the journey of Castle and Beckett, the journey to their happy ending. And if even they don't get their happily ever after after everything they have been through, then how could I ever hope to get it in real life? Castle is not supposed to be with someone else. From the moment he met Beckett he wasn't supposed to be with someone else. And that is why I think they should end the show with S8 and a happily ever after for Castle and Beckett so that this hopefulness the show stands for doesn't get destroyed (and we can still believe in the possibility of magic.)

From the moment Marlowe and Millar left the building any guarantees for a Castle and Beckett happy ending were over. It was their love story they put up on screen and I always believed that despite some of the shitty turns in storytelling towards the end of their reign they would ensure fans were never deprived of seeing things end happily. Because who would seriously want to crap all over their love with death and disaster for these two characters they kept saying were based on them? 

 

Once the new writers came on board fans should have prepared themselves for worst case scenario, I certainly did, these new writers have no emotional link to the characters unlike MilMar - I expected they would either separate, get divorced or one of them died and so here we are considering it.

 

My final imagined scene of the entire series used to centre on the idea they'd have her walking off literally arm arm together after a proper kiss (a bit like the ending of Still which is one of the reasons I love that episode) and if they could spare the cash have that One Republic song used again as they come full circle, yeah I know I won't be winning any writing awards any time soon lol.

 

What's sad is that they'll probably end up ruining MilMar's legacy and incurring the eternal wrath of the majority of the fanbase as they struggle to keep the show going somehow and as others have stated is it going to be all worth it?   I'd love to know how MilMar feel right now watching this unfold. 

 

 

They act like she was never there (maybe it was all a dream or him writing a book). 

 

I read a fanfic on tumblr just the other day where it looks like he's imagined her all along but he's so wrapped up in this story of a life he's created for himself that he goes to the precinct and there she is "his" Captain Beckett and she recognises him or something like that. I can see in the coming months a lot of fanfic doing the rounds as fans try to come to terms with things and write their own happy endings. They'll probably do a far better job than the professional writers because the fans genuinely care about the characters. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by verdana

[madmaverick]

I read that fanfic too.  Gah, what I really want is a good dose of fluffy fic right now!  Though I don't know if the good fanfic writers will find any more inspiration anymore under the circumstances.  The fics where one dies or where they just don't end up together can be gut wrenching and I'm really not looking forward to seeing that play out on screen.  Kind of don't want to think about the ending yet.  I'm still holding out on minimal hope that things will be left open and Stana might guest down the line. Despite the love story being the reason why I've watched the show, I will say this, in the hands of good writers, a good story can be crafted out of just about anything so I have to wait and see what they will write.  Problem is, I don't think this kind of show will attract quality writers.

 

I believe women in Hollywood can have it tougher sometimes than their male counterparts, I have no doubt that some unpleasant things do go on but I don't care to see female stars being treated like victims when they're often far from it. I keep reminding myself Hollywood is a business first and foremost, stars make career choices for any number of reasons that would probably baffle the hell out of many fans if they knew the truth.  I know some fans have intimated that Katic is a victim of some kind of obvious misogynist agenda this season but I've never been sold on that.

 

I'm a feminist and think that women can have it tougher in Hollywood just as they can in other industries.  But it's not always the case or the reason something happens, and in void of facts about the actual decision making process by ABC, I'm wary of making it about sexism, especially given that the decision was made by a newly promoted female executive.  Agree that Hollywood is a business foremost and a probably cut throat one at that where the bottom line really matters, and without knowing the calculations in any of that, we can't really draw any conclusions other than this is a decision that absolutely sucks on the story level.  Stana is an experienced professional by now with a big team behind her no less than Nathan's and I trust her team knew how to handle things, so I've never bought into her as some kind of weak woman bullied and victimised by misogynists out to get her.  

[TWP]

Both of the real life examples I gave were loves of the lives. One couple had met in GRADE school, started dating junior high, got married after college, we're married for 20 years and he had sudden cardiac arrest. The other was married for 43 years. When the couple encountered severe financial troubles, he killed himself to free up his life insurance money and save her the indignancy of bankruptcy. These were true love stories, but as anyone in similar situations will tell you, people have to move on. It's probably mostly only in movies that people never manage to find love again. With real humans, the loneliness becomes too great a burden. We humans are tribal. I don't think it's unrealistic at all to do a 3-5 year time jump to moving on.

But who knows? Maybe one of the other possibilities will happen....they'll divorce over Beckett's obsession with her job, or she'll take some job leaving her permanently out of town and they'll otherwise wrap up the show in 13, although why not just cancel? Or, we'll find out that the current Beckett is a 3XK plastic surgery altered imposter and the real Beckett has been altered to look like .... Jewel Staite, maybe? In other words, they'll replace Stana in the Beckett role. Or Castle will wake up at the beginning of Season 9 and find out that the last 8 years were just a dream?

All speculation, of course. If they come back for Season 9, it’s quite possible that the intention is to carry on. If they do start with 13, I think the plan will be to continue if things work out.

The irony is that Castle replaced Boston Legal, another show that burned and pillaged the cast of it's originating show, The Practice, after 7 years. The Practice went on for a year and then spun off to Boston Legal and decent success for another 4 years. Of course I don't think James Spader is available for the Castle spinoff like he was for Boston Legal. But William Shatner may be!

I'm not forgetting Stana. I'm at least as curious about what she will do next.

The next few episodes will maybe help us get an idea of for how long Stana could at least see the handwriting on the wall.

Edited April 22, 2016 by TWP

[westwingfan]

Both of the real life examples I gave were loves of the lives. One couple had met in GRADE school, started dating junior high, got married after college, we're married for 20 years and he had sudden cardiac arrest. The other was married for 43 years. When the couple encountered severe financial troubles, he killed himself to free up his life insurance money and save her the indignancy of bankruptcy. These were true love stories, but as anyone in similar situations will tell you, people have to move on. It's probably mostly only in movies that people never manage to find love again. With real humans, the loneliness becomes too great a burden. We humans are tribal. I don't think it's unrealistic at all to do a 3-5 year time jump to moving on.

But who knows? Maybe one of the other possibilities will happen....they'll divorce over Beckett's obsession with her job, or she'll take some job leaving her permanently out of town and they'll otherwise wrap up the show in 13, although why not just cancel? Or, we'll find out that the current Beckett is a 3XK plastic surgery altered imposter and the real Beckett has been altered to look like .... Jewel Staite, maybe? In other words, they'll replace Stana in the Beckett role. Or Castle will wake up at the beginning of Season 9 and find out that the last 8 years were just a dream?

All speculation, of course.

I think a dead Beckett is what to expect, not necessarily in the finale but Hawley's cliff hanger has her in a Knockout situation, so that those casual viewers who are not keeping up with off screen events,(although how you can get through life like that is a mystery to me LOL) will be enticed back because they'll believe it is another Knockout and Beckett will return all patched up in the S9 premier.

 

I had my unconditional allegiance to the show shaken with S&Q and what followed in DC and completely broken by FBOW. Following that it took me several months to feel like I wanted to watch another episode, but I'd recovered just in time for the S7 premier. I managed to hang on during S7 but I've really struggled with S8, actually skipping Cool Boys, The G.D.S. and Backstabber altogether, and a year ago I would never have believed that I would not want to watch an episode. I've been mulling over recent events and I've now decided that if I am ever going to be able to watch any of the earlier episodes that I enjoyed ever again then I'm going to have to give up now before I'm left with any more bad memories to tarnish what came before. You can't unwatch certain things so if I'm going to be able to take 7x23 as my series finale my interest in what comes next stops here. FBOW was a crapfest of an episode, S8 has been a crapfest of a season.

[Julia]

'Huntsman,' 'Sleepy Hollow,' And Why It Matters When Female Stars Are Kicked Out Of Their Franchises - Forbes 

...

As for Snow White and The Hunstman and the recent sequel with no Snow White that is mentioned in the article, I would have thought the lead actress having a very public fling with the director didn't exactly help matters. I wasn't that shocked Stewart didn't get to make a repeat appearance. 

 

Geez, thank you. Without weighing in on the rest of the article, which makes some good points, Kristen Stewart didn't just have a dalliance with a married man involved with her movie which was made very public. She most likely could have gotten past that. It certainly had no long-term impact on Angelina Jolie's career. Kristen Stewart had a very public dalliance while she was in a relationship with her partner in one of the biggest ships of the past few decades. I think she's a competent actress, and she's made some interesting small movies, but without her Twilight fans I don't think she brings anything to a Snow White sequel.

 

Back on topic, I think Season 1 Castle: PI could have been an interesting story, and I would have picked it over the chemistry-lite Caskett of the past few seasons. Season 8 Castle bores and annoys me, so I can't imagine this group writing Castle: Wacky Lovable Henpecked PI in a way which would draw me in.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Julia

[Kromm]

I'm not forgetting Stana. I'm at least as curious about what she will do next.

Honestly, even if behind the scenes people think she's the innocent party here (I won't say "victim"), chances are what she will do next is try to get work and fail to do so. While more roles have opened up for actresses over 35 in the past few years, there in turn have also been more people competing for them, I think. And she's not so great an actress or so beloved by a horde of loyalists that producers will be lining up for her. 

 

I predict a period where she tries to get some movie roles and maybe bags a few indie films (I think she's done a few coming out this year anyway, if you look at her IMDB that's what those 2016 projects look like). So her best bet is to hope those make money or get attention so she can get more. She certainly won't be rolling in the dough from any of that though. 

 

The alternative is going to that same well of Lifetime and Hallmark Chanel made-for-TV movies that most of her contemporaries are begging at. A lot of competition for some really shitty work, in other words, paying perhaps almost as badly as Indie films. Maybe now that Candace Cameron has a real gig (Fuller House), the dozen or so of those she would have taken will be available, but I'm sure some a long line of other actresses between 35 and 50 have snapped those up by now.

Oh... that Forbes article?  Totally true. It's been outrageous how many important female characters (leads mostly) have gone in the dumper this year. Don't care about The Huntsman film (never saw the first one, don't care to see the second or any other future ones), but on TV it's been a slaughterhouse.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Kromm

[metaphor]

Finally one sneak peek for 8x19 that includes Beckett. I really should be more enthusiastic about this episode, given that it's written by Rob Hanning, but Monday's news has left a bitter taste in my mouth. So sad that I don't think I can fully enjoy these last 4 episodes of Castle, knowing where we're headed. 

[Emma]

Gotta love People online. "Beckett's still here! Catch one of Stana Katic's final appearances."

Wonder if Stana leaked that too?

Will Esposito and Ryan become collateral damage??  Chances are fairly high I think.  I mean if they are gonna reboot this show - the had better really reboot it.  Don't half arse it if you're gonna implode the story that has been told so far.....erasing all traces of Beckett is merely the starting point and the 12th and Esposito and Ryan are traces of Beckett.

I think the boys return. I can see them working for Castle PI enjoying all those perks and high life. Whooping it up in LA. None of that pesky code of the 12th or other guidelines holding them back now.

[Sara2009]

Not sure if this is reliable, but Nathan is allegedly going to bat for Jon and Seamus:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/castle-stana-katic-exits-season-885130

I've been reading reactions to all of this over at ONTD. That place is often a cesspool, but the outrage over there is endlessly amusing to me. Don't read if you're a Nathan fan, though.

[verdana]

Cheers & Jeers Takes on Kimmy Schmidt, Kelly Ripa, Nashville's Brat and That Castle Mess at TV Insider

Jeers to a Castle without two of its queens.

Blaming budget cuts, the powers-that-be at ABC’s crime dramedy have decided they don’t need Stana Katic’s Kate Beckett and Tamala Jones’ Lanie Parish should the show be renewed for a ninth season. Funny enough, we just decided that investing in the Beckett-Castle romance all these years was as stupid a move as this one.

 

Ouch. 

[verdana]

Finally one sneak peek for 8x19 that includes Beckett. I really should be more enthusiastic about this episode, given that it's written by Rob Hanning, but Monday's news has left a bitter taste in my mouth. So sad that I don't think I can fully enjoy these last 4 episodes of Castle, knowing where we're headed. 

Shame because Rob is one of the more solid writers on Castle, he seems to "get" them as a couple better than most. I see this particular sneak quickly made it on to twitter, may be because it had Caskett in it? Had to smile when he says to the guy "as a grown man call it a journal" - that's the Richard Castle I like. 

 

I've seen quite a few fans saying what's the point of watching any more they're so upset.  

Edited April 22, 2016 by verdana

[TWP]

(Quoting is a problem on my tablet, so I'm referencing instead. )

Regarding Stana and work, if her agent cashes in on the current angst, it could lead to some decent work. Also, she was talking about a cable show in one interview. That could come to fruition. No reason to believe she won't get good work. The reality for women is that some do, some don't get great parts again. Same with the men. The reality for all is that they could easily never work at anything meaningful again, which is why people who say that Nathan should quit in protest at losing Stana really don't get that in Hollywood, if someone wants to sign you for something legit, you go with it.

But Stana could become another Julie Bowen, Katey Sagal, Kaley Cuoco, all really successful and well-paid.

I agree with those who say Castle is unwatcheable. Whatever they're gonna do to Kate, I don't want to see it, or the build up to it. It's not entertainment for me. I'll rely on the internet to tell me what happened and then wait until fall and see what the new show is.

Clearly to me, whoever leaked this change wanted to harm the show and everyone involved. ABC would have waited until these episodes aired. The leak harms Nathan, but it also harms Stana, I think. She doesn't want her last bits on Castle to have low ratings. Maybe the leaker was someone (writer, actor, craft services worker?) who was previously cut from the show but still had access to information.

Edited April 22, 2016 by TWP

[madmaverick]

People can decide for themselves if this is legit.  But supposedly someone from the costume department posted a comment in reply to one of the tabloid articles and fans verified his name from imdb.

https://twitter.com/CastlePromos/status/723553409744297984

 

Either way, I'm with him, where do people get this shit? ;)

 

Liked this tweet from PJJ.   If only more would heed her words. ;)

Penny Johnson Jerald ‏@btwprod  
#Castlefans are classy. Disappointments come and go, but character is forever. ❤️

 

Edited April 22, 2016 by madmaverick