Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[BellyLaughter]

Healthy ego or ABC has convinced him that the market research they have done is all positive. That's all I can fall back on right now....ABC would not have made this decision without careful consideration - they obviously feel it's worth the risk. I won't be watching but they must feel others will....

Edited April 21, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[FlickerToAFlame]

His Twitter "likes" are pretty interesting, but I see more about how the show *can't* go on than can.

[McManda]

His Twitter "likes" are pretty interesting, but I see more about how the show *can't* go on than can.

 

I don't think anything can be gleaned from his twitter "likes". He also liked a tweet (that was in response to his statement about these events) that simply said "Fuck you." so ...

 

(unless he's getting his legal team to try and press charges? </sarcasm>)

[KaveDweller]

Remember the recent news Marlowe and Terri were developing a show about a PI and out of rehab actor? I waved it off as Castle 2.0 thinking they'd never be able to strike lightening twice. Never thought I'd find myself hoping that pilot actually goes somewhere. Never thought I'd be wishing for Marlowe to still be in charge to maybe have mitigated this disastrous ending. What a mess.

 

I wonder if they'd consider casting Stana. Marlowe seemed to really love her (which is why I have a hard time believing she was completely awful to deal with on set.)

 

And did Nathan really like a tweet that said Castle could survive without Beckett? He's made no secret he likes the antics over the romance, but man, know your audience.

 

Yeah, if it did that's pretty dumb on his part. I get why he'd want to keep the show going, but be a little respectful of fans who are upset right now. It's the same thing with Molly's tweet about how Nathan is Castle. It's totally valid to want to keep her job, but saying that to a Beckett fan is just going to piss them off.

 

I don't know.....Nathan strikes me as someone who does not easily change his stance on something. And as someone who would do anything for his friends, but if you cross him, you'll be on his shit list forever. So if he really had an issue with Stana, I can see him wanting to say it passive-aggressively, since he can't come out and say it for real. But it is just Twitter.

 

G'night. See you tomorrow. ;-). Just kidding based on my own vows to quit something that's very hard to quit. If you can really do it, RESPECT!. If you can't, it’s confirmation that you are human.

 

I feel like losing this board will be harder than losing the show.

[rspad]

I don't think anything can be gleaned from his twitter "likes". He also liked a tweet (that was in response to his statement about these events) that simply said "Fuck you." so ...

Really? Lol. That's actually pretty funny. I don't look at twitter at all so have no clue what goes on there.

Edited April 21, 2016 by rspad

[BellyLaughter]

Remember the recent news Marlowe and Terri were developing a show about a PI and out of rehab actor? I waved it off as Castle 2.0 thinking they'd never be able to strike lightening twice. Never thought I'd find myself hoping that pilot actually goes somewhere. Never thought I'd be wishing for Marlowe to still be in charge to maybe have mitigated this disastrous ending. What a mess.

 

 

If they could create a show that's as tight and as entertaining as early seasons Castle was I'd give it a go.  I was never on the AWM ruined Castle bandwagon and was really bummed when he (and Terri) was removed.  The writing was on the wall when that happened....didn't think the flame out would be so spectacular though.....it must be really grating for him to just sit back and watch all this go down.  He is as powerless as fans are to really change the trajectory of things....if you think it's frustrating and heartbreaking for you as a fan just imagine how horrible it must be for the man who created the story.....

[break21]

Honestly - I'm sick of the Stana as victum shit.  It offends me as a woman  And Nathan isnt the worst guy on earth - he's worked for 20 years in the biz before this mess..  Tired of making her an angel from heaven and him the worst guy on earth Neither one fits.  Maybe neither or perfect and they both had issues???

[KaveDweller]

Honestly - I'm sick of the Stana as victum shit.  It offends me as a woman  And Nathan isnt the worst guy on earth - he's worked for 20 years in the biz before this mess..  Tired of making her an angel from heaven and him the worst guy on earth Neither one fits.  Maybe neither or perfect and they both had issues???

 

Exactly, if there was a feud, they are probably both equally to blame for not getting along. I hope it's not someone on Stana's team leaking those stories to try and get her sympathy, she already had it and it's just making things more scandalous. Honestly, I kind of believe that article that Marlowe kept any personal issues in check and once he left.....well, we got season 8.

[rspad]

Maybe neither or perfect and they both had issues???

Exactly why I said the truth is always somewhere in the middle.  I just think some sensitivity from all sides would be nice in the face of the fandom reaction.

[BellyLaughter]

OMG I just realised.....poor Jim Beckett..... 

[371012]

THAT was funny!!

[Emma]

Agreed that both parties are to blame on some level.

Maybe people wouldn't be painting one a saint and the other a sinner if one wasn't being rewarded while the other was tossed away in a most insulting way?? No matter how you spin that it stinks something awful.

[WendyCR72]

Agreed that both parties are to blame on some level.

Maybe people wouldn't be painting one a saint and the other a sinner if one wasn't being rewarded while the other was tossed away in a most insulting way?? No matter how you spin that it stinks something awful.

 

Perhaps, but that is on ABC. The network is approving this. NF did not make them approve a possible S9 (assuming it has). The inequality falls on them.

[CheshireCat]

It's somewhat ironic that a lot of people were of the opinion that ABC stepped in after they saw the repercussions of the split at the beginning of the season and the showrunners adjusted the direction of the season afterwards. I don't think that was the case, the season arc was planned out at the start but now it actually seems that, if anything, it was the other way around, that ABC might have dictated the season's general direction with the contracts they negotiated... The showrunners might actually have done the best they could under the circumstances.

[madmaverick]

It's bad enough that our beloved love story is ending this way.  But it makes it worse when the actors are being dragged through the mud in tabloid shit.  I am sorry but a hundred more skeezy tabloid articles quoting anon "sources" is not going to make me believe dumb shit just like that.  In the internet age, it could all just go back to one crazy fan who gets off on making shit up and spreading it as far and wide as possible.  Been in the fandom long enough to know there are definitely a few crazy people like that whose only goal in life seems to be hating and character assassination.  

 

I really, really hope that none of the actors' PR teams are behind this tabloid shit.

 

I find it curious that last year Nathan's re-signing was leaked ahead of the scheduled announcement apparently, and this year Stana and Tamala's exit have been leaked as well.  Makes you wonder who's doing this and what's the agenda.

 

Been catching up on the alwayswritewithcoffee tumblr and it's curious also that she seems to be saying based on her supposed insider info that Stana wasn't interested in returning anyway.

 

Whatever she does next, please no more working with Marlowe.  Been there, done that.  She can do better.

 

And I wish Tamala the best too.  Classy exit interview.  They could have done so much better with Lanie and Beckett and ugh even Esplanie, but it wasn't done.

 

I don't know if this is a minority opinion or what but I'm still of the opinion that everyone in the cast are OK or better than OK people based on everything's that been said about them by people who have worked with them and know them.  I'm not going to dismiss all that just because the rumour and tabloid mill's going crazy and people are angry and lashing out.

Edited April 21, 2016 by madmaverick

[MsFlibbles]

Instead of killing Beckett off. Either have her go underground or time jump with Simon Doyle from Time Will Tell. Castle could have written a dedication to Simon asking him for help on the off chance he was really a time traveller. Comes back in time after Beckett is killed in our time line to rescue her. Or she's kidnapped and goes underground making everyone believe she is dead. After the funeral Castle comes back home to find a note simply saying "she's safe". That way it leaves the door open for Stana to come back. Either loksak is destroyed or if she time jumps an older Castle meets up with her in the future.

We,the fans, are owed a happy ending after all this investment of time. Sure, we were entertained for the most part. But, there are plenty of other shows that we could have watched instead.

Doesn't matter what's going on between the actors BTS. Someone at ABC doesn't have the cajones to tell them tough shit and grow up and deal. But, as long the show is making money someone is going to squeeze as much money as they can. The more episodes they have to syndicate the more money they make. That is where the real money is at.

[BlakesMomma]

It's bad enough that our beloved love story is ending this way.  But it makes it worse when the actors are being dragged through the mud in tabloid shit.  I am sorry but a hundred more skeezy tabloid articles quoting anon "sources" is not going to make me believe dumb shit just like that.  In the internet age, it could all just go back to one crazy fan who gets off on making shit up and spreading it as far and wide as possible.  Been in the fandom long enough to know there are definitely a few crazy people like that whose only goal in life seems to be hating and character assassination.  

 

I really, really hope that none of the actors' PR teams are behind this tabloid shit.

 

I find it curious that last year Nathan's re-signing was leaked ahead of the scheduled announcement apparently, and this year Stana and Tamala's exit have been leaked as well.  Makes you wonder who's doing this and what's the agenda.

 

Been catching up on the alwayswritewithcoffee tumblr and it's curious also that she seems to be saying based on her supposed insider info that Stana wasn't interested in returning anyway.

 

Whatever she does next, please no more working with Marlowe.  Been there, done that.  She can do better.

 

And I wish Tamala the best too.  Classy exit interview.  They could have done so much better with Lanie and Beckett and ugh even Esplanie, but it wasn't done.

 

I don't know if this is a minority opinion or what but I'm still of the opinion that everyone in the cast are OK or better than OK people based on everything's that been said about them by people who have worked with them and know them.  I'm not going to dismiss all that just because the rumour and tabloid mill's going crazy and people are angry and lashing out.

 

The interesting part is that they both negatively affected Nathan and garnered sympathy and attention for Stana.  She came out the winner in both of those leaks.  

[Emma]

Perhaps, but that is on ABC. The network is approving this. NF did not make them approve a possible S9 (assuming it has). The inequality falls on them.

It very well may have started with the network but I'm going to give the side eye towards someone who is happily negotiating under such tactics. I'd be doing the same had the network chose Stana and discarded Nathan instead.

Maybe I'm being unreasonable as I sit here comfortably employed. Maybe I shouldn't judge someone who obviously needs a job.

The parties can spin it any way they want but there's something really foul smelling here. And I expect it to get worse when the renewal announcement comes. Others may doubt it's a done deal but I'm expecting an announcement next month.

[madmaverick]

The interesting part is that they both negatively affected Nathan and garnered sympathy and attention for Stana.  She came out the winner in both of those leaks.  

I also find it curious that no tabloid seems to have latched onto the popular fandom rumor that Nathan and Stana dated that it was a bad breakup that led to them not getting along anymore.  That would seem to be the juicy salacious bit tabloids would like. ;)

 

I expect the actors to negotiate their contracts with their boss (network) on their own behalves and with their own interests in mind just as I would expect it in any other corp.  It's not their responsibility to be responsible for other people's contracts.  Everyone's within their rights to ask for a raise or whatnot and it's not on them if the boss decides to lay someone off or shut down the company altogether.  That's on the boss.  Nathan and Stana probably did not communicate with each other about their own contract negotiations, but they are under no obligation to either.

[verdana]

Well, an official statement from the showrunners feels like it would have been appropriate. No BSing. Just an acknowledgment.

They should have acknowledged what's happened, I don't believe for one second there's some contractual reason why they must remain silent, same with Fillion and his statement, I didn't think it was that wonderful but he did the necessary which was the least I expect of co-workers etc when someone this important leaves I don't care what your relationship might be with them, at least have the common decency to say good luck and goodbye (even if secretly you're thinking good riddance lol). 

 

Doubt Hawley and Winter though are cheering that she's gone?  Unless they're hoping her departure frees them of having to try and accommodate both stars demands for reduced Caskett screentime, now they can forget all that hassle and have more scope to do other things if the show gets renewed which still looks like it could be likely based on ABC's desperation.

 

They've done nothing with Beckett, her promotion to Captain has been laughably half arsed and inconsequential, she's felt more like a weight around their necks trying to create some story for her.  I haven't found Kate remotely interesting this season, there's been little emotional growth or development. If Stana is remotely genuine about putting "art" over finance then beats me why she would even entertain any idea of returning to a character that appears to be going nowhere even regressing. The risible Locksat/separation aside may be that's why it was so easy to quit watching after the winter hiatus - both characters in their current guise don't intrigue and excite me enough any more. 

 

It will be much harder to stop coming here for this community that's for sure.  Sigh

Edited April 21, 2016 by verdana

[tessaray]

I sympathize with Caskett fans and am nodding in agreement with the various XF/Bones/HIMYM  comparisons, but as far as television love stories and network F U's go, nothing really compares to  Linda Hamilton leaving the original B&TB**.  This was before the WWW (the online portion played out on Prodigy/AOL/GEnie) but decades later, I still come across scorch marks, so I guess there really is nothing new under the sun... 

 

** ETA:  I don't mean that B&TB was more special than any other show, just that the fireworks and fandom schism were pretty spectacular - more so than most other shows up to that point in time. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by tessaray

[CheshireCat]

verdana, on 21 Apr 2016 - 01:28 AM, said:verdana, on 21 Apr 2016 - 01:28 AM, said:

They should have acknowledged what's happened, I don't believe for one second there's some contractual reason why they must remain silent, same with Fillion and his statement, I didn't think it was that wonderful but he did the necessary which was the least I expect of co-workers etc when someone this important leaves I don't care what your relationship might be with them, at least have the common decency to say good luck and goodbye (even if secretly you're thinking good riddance lol). 

 

Well, if they still are under contract then I have to no difficulty believing that what they say is subject to approval by ABC. I've read bits here, pieces there over the years about contracts and they seem to regulate a lot in regards to media interaction. That's why I said an official statement like Fillion made would have been nice. I'm sure that one would be possible one way or the other. It's just odd they've not said a single word and I'd so love to know why! (I know curiosity killed the cat, but cats are said to have 9 lives ;-) )

 

QuoteQuote

They've done nothing with Beckett, her promotion to Captain has been laughably half arsed and inconsequential, she's felt more like a weight around their necks trying to create some story for her.  I haven't found Kate remotely interesting this season, there's been little emotional growth or development. If Stana is remotely genuine about putting "art" over finance then beats me why she would even entertain any idea of returning to a character that appears to be going nowhere even regressing. The risible Locksat/separation aside may be that's why it was so easy to quit watching after the winter hiatus - both characters in their current guise don't intrigue and excite me enough any more.

 

I'm still not convinced that what Hawley and Winter had originally planned is what we ended up seeing. Too many things don't add up and Katic deciding to come back because she felt her character was safe and what ultimately was done with the character is one of those things.

Edited April 21, 2016 by CheshireCat

[verdana]

Been catching up on the alwayswritewithcoffee tumblr and it's curious also that she seems to be saying based on her supposed insider info that Stana wasn't interested in returning anyway.

I'd be a wary of any insider info from this source given her last set of supposed sources (she intimated they were writers on the show or linked to them in some way) led her astray spectacularly over the wedding and when it would be. She got her arse well and truly burn't then in humiliating fashion, so I'm cautious about any of her claims of insider knowledge about what went down.  Checking out her blog, she obviously not so secretly enjoys the attention and questions it brings. 

 

That said her supposed source may be on to something heh, it did appear as if Stana had emotionally disengaged from the show and was going through the motions and I've never seen that before from her, there were more than a few scenes where she acted like she honestly didn't give a fuck and just wanted to go home.

 

She gave ONE interview this season right at the very start, I don't know any show where the co-lead would be allowed to do so little PR. I can't believe she wasn't asked by Matt (who is clearly in deep mourning) for a sound bite or interview over the course of the season and that goes for other media outlets too. Did the showrunners not ask her at all to say something? Were they unable to? Was it agreed in her contract she didn't have to do anything and the burden fell entirely on her co-star? Fillion on the other hand did quite a bit for Castle even if what he said irked me as usual. Very strange. I'm not trying to paint Katic or Fillion as being bad people they seem generally decent enough for Hollywood stars but everything has been so weird this season. I don't get it, I find it intriguing.

[BellyLaughter]

I guess for me none of what has been said or done in the past few days makes any sense in regards to having the show carry on and still be feasible.

1) why would ABC take the bullet if, as some are hinting, Stana actually chose to walk away?

2) if this info was floated to gauge fan reaction then the obvious reaction would be to not renew but all things seems to be pointing to a S9 - like it's pretty much a done deal.

3) the damage done from the leak was immense yet ABC didn't rebuke it at great cost to any future this show may have.

I'm just having such a hard time finding ANY logic in any of this and at the same time I am faced with watching one of my fave tv shows of all time implode in spectacular fashion for no (as of now) apparent, good, sound reason.

Does ABC really think any good is gonna come from this? do they really think they can salvage a show that anyone is gonna watch from this?? Clearly I'm missing something....and it's driving me nuts!

[madmaverick]

Checking out her blog, she obviously not so secretly enjoys the attention and questions it brings.

 

Ha. Isn't that true of all so called insiders? ;) 

 

I think, in the end, Castle became a job more than a passion to Stana, just as it is for the rest of the cast.  They might enjoy their jobs to varying degrees but it's still a job, working for a good paycheck, and I don't blame them for feeling that way.

 

I think Stana has also become quite PR conscious and places an importance on it, maybe on the advice of her team, as seen by her Deadline interview last year and the way her marriage was publicised in various outlets, and her uptick in instagram activity.  I noted the definite upswing in Castle/Beckett related tweets towards the end of this season which had been mostly absent all season.  Trying to get network attention same as Nathan?  No doubt Matt has been asking for an interview but I don't think she wanted to give one for whatever reason.  Stana gives me the impression of knowing what she wants and wanting to do things on her terms like other empowered females, which is why I don't subscribe to theories of her being the victim of a bully. ;)  Did she play hardball with the network in negotiations last year and it's backfiring this year?  Who knows?  Or maybe the network simply does want to rework the show, even though it's a mistake.

 

Interesting reading this list of Nathan's twitter likes, though I'm not reading too much into it naturally.  My favourite may be his liking, "F_ you." heh.  What can one do when so much hate is being thrown at you by people you don't know and people who don't know the situation and people who would probably still hate on you no matter what you say or do?  Glad I'm not a celebrity.  I don't see anything else here to indicate that he wants to make the show all about him or whatever some people want to believe.

Edited April 21, 2016 by madmaverick

[Chado]

If your demands are unreasonable but yet you say "I want to come back"....do you really want to come back?....like honestly? I understand people are emotional about this but It's nuanced. Things are more complicated than people make it out to be. Nobody is a victim here lol...

 

ABC have made a few WTF decisions in how they are framing this, because it has nothing to do with money.

 

If we knew where the leak came from, then fingers could be pointed more freely at certain parties and their intentions...but until you know that, this is just people who have already picked a side...just continuing the Stana v Nathan argument that has been going on for years in this fandom.

[westwingfan]

It's been said that the on-line fandom is only a minor part of the the viewing audience, the majority of whom may well be ignorant of Stana's departure, whether that can be maintained until S9 premiers is another matter, so the most logical ending, and given Hawley's penchant for revisiting old episodes, is one similar to Knockout with Castle once again cradling a bleeding Beckett after she's taken a bullet for him. That way if a lot of people stay ignorant during the hiatus the ratings for the premier could look OK, what happens when Beckett's demise is revealed is a finger in the air job at the moment.

[KaveDweller]

If your demands are unreasonable but yet you say "I want to come back"....do you really want to come back?....like honestly? I understand people are emotional about this but It's nuanced. Things are more complicated than people make it out to be. Nobody is a victim here lol...

 

I think the fans are the victim.

I've read in a couple places that Stana wouldn't want to sign next year anyway. Maybe she didn't want to do season 8, so asked for the world in her negotiations and got it. Maybe she would have done the same this year, I mean, why not go for it? But ABC decided to not even give her the chance, which has to hurt, even if she would have said no. I hope it's not her team leaking the news.

But I still don't get why ABC is sticking with the budget story, that makes them look bad, rather than leaking whatever Their real reasoning is.

[pepper]

Everything official says Stana did not leave voluntarily, nor did Tamala. Why is it now being speculated that she did? Have I missed something? 

[FlickerToAFlame]

Nathan's sudden passion for the show this season is surely making sense now. At the very least, the consistent live tweeting has been to portray himself as a model employee and at worst to make absolutely certain he came out on top when they chose between him and Stana (which he would have won anyway, but why not be sure). I'm not blaming him, it's what most people would do. It's just so transparent.

I'd like a Castle mind wipe now.

ETA: my guess is someone linked to Stana leaked this. Her quote was primed and ready to go in the initial articles. Not blaming her either, but it makes sense. Same if she leaked the signing drama last year.

Edited April 21, 2016 by FlickerToAFlame

[shapeshifter]

Did we already know they filmed two endings?

http://deadline.com/2016/04/canceled-or-renewed-castle-nashville-criminal-minds-csi-cyber-sleepy-hollow-mysteries-of-laura-bubble-1201738298/

[BellyLaughter]

I guess Hollywood is an eat or be eaten world... Not a place I would last a day in!

[KaveDweller]

Everything official says Stana did not leave voluntarily, nor did Tamala. Why is it now being speculated that she did? Have I missed something?

There have been "insiders" claiming she wanted to leave and that she almost didn't sign for S8. Mostly in comments on various articles about this, so definitely not official. And also really depressing reading.

I don't think it was voluntary though, I think they didn't give her a chance to say yes or no.

[Thak]

Would be interesting to hear what this Castor Pollox poster from TvLine would have to say now. Back in February they called the two days/week demands of Nathan's, but the more interesting piece of inside info back then was that Nathan was demanding Stana's removal from the show before he would re-sign for season 9. If true, that would explain the reason for their "budgetary" excuse. Just speculating with the rest of you.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Thak

[Emma]

There's no way ABC takes the blame if this was Stana's decision to leave. Whether she made it clear during last negotiations, made scenes about it on set, behind closed doors, etc. ABC would throw her under the bus right quick to get the fans favor. Nope. ABC is sticking with budget cuts and the fan uproar which leads me to believe it was the networks decision. And Nathan's if those rumors are true.

It's curious that something similar is going on with Live with Kelly and Michael. Negotiations bts with a blindsided announcement on air. Kelly won't return to work until next week. Rumors that she's on bad terms with the producer and the show might be cancelled as the network focuses on revamping/bolstering GMA.

I don't believe for a second that ABC thought up the reboot last week and set things in motion on the fly. It might be unfair to Nathan but I'm believing those rumors that he's been in negotiation for some time. I think the network has had the framework in place and it's just a matter off dotting and crossing everything once the smoke clears. I'm sure all will be done in time for an announcement at the up fronts next month. Assuming it's not leaked before that.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Emma

[madmaverick]

Would be interesting to hear what this Castor Pollox poster from TvLine would have to say now. Back in February they called the two days/week demands of Nathan's, but the more interesting piece of inside info back then was that Nathan was demanding Stana's removal from the show before he would re-sign for season 9. If true, that would explain the reason for their "budgetary" excuse. Just speculating with the rest of you.

I wish people would stop referencing that anon TV Line poster, just as they would stop referencing questionable tabloid articles and blind items that were debunked years ago.  I get that people are desperate for info but that doesn't mean you should stop using your brain and believe anything out there just because it's on the internet.

 

In the same post, that TV Line poster also said claimed something ridiculous like Nathan pushed out the Castle casting director because she didn't cast enough of his friends.  That kind of allegation alone is enough for me to dismiss what he/she posted as complete bullshit altogether.  Donna Rosenstein who was the casting director on Castle has always been friendly with Nathan.  He thanked her at Paley years ago and they were pictured together recently at some even where they ran into each other.  She's moved onto become the casting director at Amazon, which I would definitely say is a step up from Castle.  Zero evidence that anyone was ever pushed out by Nathan, or that he even has that kind of power.

 

That TV Line poster also claimed something ridiculous like Nathan refused to film the wedding scene and insisted on the car crash.  It boggles my mind that people can even take these kinds of claims seriously.  Straight out of fanfiction from certain parts of the fandom.  People really have no idea what doing something like that would do to the reputation of an actor and I think Nathan (and others in the cast) have worked too hard over the course of decades for their hard earned professional reputations to throw it away like that over something laughable like that.

 

Thak:

You don't know she wronged anybody.  If we're going to go this route then I will bring up what one poster here said, I can't remember their name, they were the person who appeared to have inside info and then deleted all their posts, halwideman or something.  When discussing the treatment of Kate Beckett, one poster asked what Stana could of done to piss off the TPTB.  Halwideman? responded that if anyone in this cast would get poor treatment for their character it would be Nathan Fillion because although all actors can be assholes, he was the biggest one in this cast.  Some here thought this person was pretty legit.  So.....true, not true.

 

I have been on this board since the beginning and I don't recall Hal ever making a remark like that.  He/she may not have been a fan of actors in general, but I don't remember Nathan being singled out like that.  Your recollections may differ because of your clear animosity against him.

 

It's really sad and I don't get the him vs. her either. I feel like when someone posts a negative comment about Stana/Nathan, another person immediately responds with a bigger negative about the other. I don't mean on this board, I mean in the fandom in general. Like they can't just say they disagree about Stana being a bad actress (or whatever), they have to add in a worse statement about Nathan. And that goes both ways. It's all just really depressing.

 

Oh, it happens on this board too.  

 

It's depressing and I'm sick to death of the tit for tat and not so subtle shade throwing from people who actually do not know any of the facts.  People are angry and disappointed but that's never any excuse to behave badly.  But parts of the Castle fandom have been behaving shamefully and making all sorts of vicious personal attacks on cast even before this bad news.  I like to believe that the silent majority of fans are fans of both actors and wish everyone well, and simply can't be bothered with the loud, obnoxious crowd anymore who are determined to stir up rumors and make everything into he vs she because they don't know anything else.

[pepper]

Well, I am personally hoping season 9 lasts for fewer episodes than "Firefly". Sickened by this. The show wasn't even great to start with! Ok, it was great literally to start with, but certainly not recently. The idea that I would spend an hour a week watching just goofball Castle, his obnoxious daughter, his scenery-chewing mother and weak COTW plots involving Ryan and Esposito is just nuts! Fillion may or may not have got his wish, but the fact that the show will not now end on a happy note - which would have made the weak recent seasons somewhat worthwhile - is just awful and I regret sticking it out in the hope of a satisfying ending. So I'm back to the opinion of f**k this show.

Edited April 21, 2016 by pepper

[Kromm]

As shitty as this show has become... I can't even pretend to understand why they'd try to continue to make it without Beckett. Admittedly her name isn't the title of the show, but the amount of hoops you have to jump through to reset the show without her alone should be enough to close the door. Even before you focus on the notion of if the show is even worth it without her.

[Kromm]

It's curious that something similar is going on with Live with Kelly and Michael. Negotiations bts with a blindsided announcement on air. Kelly won't return to work until next week. Rumors that she's on bad terms with the producer and the show might be cancelled as the network focuses on revamping/bolstering GMA.

It's interesting that they're both playing out at the same time, and both could have a lot to do with reports of diva behavior, but Michael Strahan does seem to be coming out of this smelling pretty sweet, and it's hard to say if Stana Katic will ever work in Hollywood again (outside of some low budget looking Indie movies it looks from IMDB like she's already completed).

Oh, and I just read the part about poor Lanie/Tamala Jones being unceremoniously given the heave ho too. Hah. Maybe shippers can put a slashy subtext on them leaving together for future fanfic.

[Emma]

Sorry, I'm not feeling in a "fair" mood. I tend to point fingers and lay blame when something stinks long enough. I don't pretend to know inside info nor do I expect I will ever know the true story. That's not going to stop me from voicing my thoughts. Right or wrong of me.

Something stinks about this. It has for a while now. I'm going to call foul when one side comes out looking sweet while the other tossed aside ruthlessly.

Most of us agree that the blame lies somewhere in the middle with the actors. While some want to blame the network or Nathan with how things are progressing from this, I believe it lies somewhere in the middle too.

[Cyranetta]

The one things that might be fascinating is what effect all this Sturm und Drang will have on sales of both the S8 DVDs/streaming and the actual Nikki Heat novels (one of which is still scheduled to come out this fall). I would think that the other revenue streams would have to be in some peril.

[Thak]

 

I wish people would stop referencing that anon TV Line poster

 

There is all kinds of "inside info" that others on this board are speculating about, on this page for instance, last I checked this thread was titled, " Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!".  Of all the speculation going on here, the TvLine poster was pretty bang on with some of their info, so of course people are going to speculate about the rest of their information.  You don't like it and I get that, but people are going to speculate.

 

 

I have been on this board since the beginning and I don't recall Hal ever making a remark like that.

 

You don't need to have been on this board from the beginning to recall what was said.  That is exactly what they said.

 

 

Your recollections may differ because of your clear animosity against him.

 

 Many have a bias, and I choose to be honest with mine, but I'm not blinded by it, as you say.

 

 

Been catching up on the alwayswritewithcoffee tumblr and it's curious also that she seems to be saying based on her supposed insider info that Stana wasn't interested in returning anyway.

 

See, even you like to speculate about potential "inside info". 

[madmaverick]

Nathan's sudden passion for the show this season is surely making sense now. At the very least, the consistent live tweeting has been to portray himself as a model employee and at worst to make absolutely certain he came out on top when they chose between him and Stana (which he would have won anyway, but why not be sure). I'm not blaming him, it's what most people would do. It's just so transparent.

 

To be fair, Nathan's live tweeting isn't something he's just started doing this season, and from what I observed, everyone, Stana included, clearly stepped up a gear to tweet about the show in the second half of this season when renewal was no longer as certain as in previous years.  I think people just wanted to have a job next year. What kind of communication did Stana and her team make with the network ? Who knows.  With all the management changes at ABC and cuts being made on other shows as well, maybe no one on the show knew what was happening and what ABC had planned.  I wouldn't be so sure that Stana will never be in business with ABC again.  Business is business in Hollywood and it'll happen if it's beneficial to both parties.  One or both of her upcoming indies are related to ABC which may be how she got involved in the first place, or at least, the director came from an ABC talent programme.  No idea if she's interested in any sort of development deal with a network as her interest seems to clearly lie more in films but she's probably in a position to get one if she wanted one. 

 

Of all the speculation going on here, the TvLine poster was pretty bang on with some of their info, so of course people are going to speculate about the rest of their information.  You don't like it and I get that, but people are going to speculate.

 

Discuss that TV Line poster if you want, but don't conveniently forget the part of her info that was clearly incorrect while you assume everything else he/she posted is "bang on", to you that is.  Some of us require a higher threshold of proof to convict anyone.  

 

Many have a bias, and I choose to be honest with mine, but I'm not blinded by it, as you say.

 

Actually, I do think you are blinded by it since you can hardly resist a negative remark at an actor with every post, but that's your prerogative.  Sometimes the blindest ones never know that they are blind.  For example, the people who are crying foul about alleged "bullying" are the ones who are in fact engaged in the very same behavior, and yet they appear to be completely oblivious to it.  But it's beyond my power to take the prejudice and blindness out of people.  People can have all the favourites they want, but it's important to be fair.

Edited April 21, 2016 by madmaverick

[Thak]

 

Some of us require a higher threshold of proof to convict anyone.

 

Who's being convicted, it's speculation, when someone writes "if true"  they are not convicting anyone, they are speculating.  Speaking of being blinded by bias.

 

 

Sometimes the blindest ones never know that they are blind.

 

I agree.

[Kromm]

It doesn't even matter arguably who's in the wrong here,  The fact is that the stench from this is so bad, and the needed change in the show so deep, that the show if it comes back will just be a big fat target for people to lob HateBalls at. A lot of people may tune in to episode 1, but short of some miracle I'd expect that audience to erode quickly and the Internet to be filled with said HateBalls taking the show apart (perhaps justly, although even if Unjustly it will STILL happen). The two happening slightly separately, since the Network TV viewing audience as a whole doesn't care about ANY amount of Internet Griping, but the mere fact that the core of the show has changed will be enough to drive those people away all on it's own.

[CheshireCat]

madmaverick, on 21 Apr 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

To be fair, Nathan's live tweeting isn't something he's just started doing this season, and from what I observed, everyone, Stana included, clearly stepped up a gear to tweet about the show in the second half of this season when renewal was no longer as certain as in previous years.  I think people just wanted to have a job next year.

 

I definitely noticed that. I wasn't on any forums until during S7 and I remember that people were complaining about the lack of PR and then all of a sudden there's everyone tweeting about it. I thought it was my imagination, but apparently, it wasn't. 

 

madmaverick, on 21 Apr 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

I wish people would stop referencing that anon TV Line poster, just as they would stop referencing questionable tabloid articles and blind items that were debunked years ago.  I get that people are desperate for info but that doesn't mean you should stop using your brain and believe anything out there just because it's on the internet.

 

...

 

It's depressing and I'm sick to death of the tit for tat and not so subtle shade throwing from people who actually do not know any of the facts.  People are angry and disappointed but that's never any excuse to behave badly.

 

I think what brings out all of those speculation and latching on to rumors and posts which, in retrospect now make sense, is the fact that the dismissal of Katic doesn't make sense. I don't want to believe any of those rumors, I have a hard time imagining it's possible or that anyone would actually do that. Not when you have a person who comes across as very likeable. If Fillion were someone who wouldn't care about fans, would be dismissive of fans and come across as arrogant, then I'd maybe consider it possible. But with the way he comes across, I have a hard time believing he'd lobby for anyone to be pushed out.

Still, we all agree, I think, that there is more to the story which meets the eye. This move doesn't make sense. At all. And I think we're all just looking for a reason, we want for it to make sense and that leads to entertaining anonymous posts we probably wouldn't give a second look otherwise. Not saying it's right or that we should, just that there's a reason for it.

[madmaverick]

I don't know that I'd say a lot of these anonymous posts are "entertaining" because the popcorn is distasteful to me after a while when all sorts of awful things are being said about actors, who are still people with real feelings and real lives.  If anyone engaging in character assassination about someone they don't know would put themselves into that person's position for a minute, I don't think they would like to be on the receiving end of such treatment for one second.

 

I completely agree that it doesn't make sense for creative reasons at all for Stana/Beckett not to be part of the show.  But so many other actors/characters have been offed shows where I've also thought it wrong and unnecessary.  I'm not in the industry so have no idea what makes or doesn't make sense to those execs.  I would love to have the answers and know the full picture.  I'm even curious to know the mystery behind the Nathan/Stana relationship all these years and whether they ever dated.  But I don't think we're going to get any answers and even if we did from anon sources, I don't think I'd trust them because most people are coming at this with their own agenda and biases.

 

I'm just sad it's all come to this.  Would like a time machine to go back to when the show was good, actors were happy together, and the fandom wasn't nasty.

[CheshireCat]

madmaverick, on 21 Apr 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

I don't know that I'd say a lot of these anonymous posts are "entertaining" because the popcorn is distasteful to me after a while when all sorts of awful things are being said about actors, who are still people with real feelings and real lives.

 

Oops, forgot to add half of what I wanted to say. I didn't mean entertaining as in the posts are entertaining but entertaining the idea that those posts they otherwise wouldn't look at as true. Guess I shouldn't post and listen to the radio at the same time.

[Xenith22]

There's no way ABC takes the blame if this was Stana's decision to leave. Whether she made it clear during last negotiations, made scenes about it on set, behind closed doors, etc. ABC would throw her under the bus right quick to get the fans favor. Nope. ABC is sticking with budget cuts and the fan uproar which leads me to believe it was the networks decision. And Nathan's if those rumors are true

That was my first thought at first until I really thought about it.   If ABC were to have thrown Katic under the bus then she would have surely fired back.  She would have done interviews and revealed the real reason she left.  If that was that Fillion was an ***hole  then you've got a potential problem.

 

Networks are used to playing the role of the villain.  They cancel beloved shows, let go of actors, and cut budgets all the time drawing the ire of fans.  That does not usually stop people from watching shows on the network.   Stars on the other hand are integral to specific shows.  People will actually not watch shows over an actor they dislike starring in that show. 

Nathan tries to come across as a nice guy in all his interviews.  He's been a bankable star for the network.  Currently all we have are anonymous source rumors about the show and the relationship of Fillion and Katic on the set and behind the scenes.  A lot of people probably never even heard the majority of those rumors beside the casual mention of a feud between the two (with neither party being painted badly or more responsible) There is no way for the general public to substantiate any rumors and to know how much to believe and what is made up.

 

Stana speaking up could potentially change that.  If she were to paint a vivid picture of him as an unlikable person that could potentially really hurt the show by turning people off on anything involving him.   That's why it would have made the most sense for the network to tell Katic to keep quiet while they shoulder all the blame for a made-up financial reason.   She gets to walk away without being hounded by media questions and having to revisit and unpleasant experience on the set time and time again instead being able to immediately focus on whatever her next career move is.  While the network moves on to Castle season 9 and accepts the normal amount of irrelevant hate from fans.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Xenith22

[TWP]

I guess my impression is that it takes two to tango.  The animosity that led to cutting Stana was a two-way street.  People tend to one second think Stana is a goddess and role model and then next think she's timid and helpless and networks and actors walk all over her.  I call that objectifying, just as much as anything.  For me, I don't think some of her megafans think of her as a person.  Many certainly don't honor and respect her choices (Kris is an example).

 

I've never found either of the couple all that likeable from the limited amount I've seen over Twitter.  Both have LARGE egos, judging by some of Nathan's comments and Stana's regular self-portrait glamour shots.  I don't follow either one of them.  And I've said before that I will feel passionate about their careers and futures as soon as they start feeling equally passionate about mine.  I'm not holding my breath.  They are doing fine.

 

And yes, I find the whole PR debacle really sort of interesting, which is what people mean when they say  "pop the popcorn".  We aren't saying we're rooting for bad things to happen to anyone.  However, we are nothing but spectators in this reality TV that is taking place before our eyes, so we may as well kick back in a chair with a snack and watch.  It's a bummer that Stana got fired, but I suspect it will lead to better things if she's really as talented as many believe, so she is a winner.  I suspect Nathan will be the biggest loser because he is getting blamed. 

 

I personally don't blame Nathan. Even if one of his stipulations for renewing his contract was that he didn't want to ever again work with Stana, it was up to ABC to make that happen.  For him, life maybe was too short to hate his work and he was fine with walking away.  That would be his prerogative and I know many people who have quit jobs because they hated their co-worker or boss. He deserves a happy life.  ABC wanted to keep him, apparently, and were willing to sacrifice her....if in fact, the BTS was the reason for letting her go.