Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[CheshireCat]

McManda, on 18 Apr 2016 - 10:30 PM, said:

As in, they're testing the waters to see if a Beckett-less S9 would even fly before they made a renewal decision? (Hint: if that's the case #season8seriesfinale is my vote.)

 

Yes, that's what I mean. If it was really because she made unreasonable demands then ABC wouldn't really have thrown her under the bus. Then they'd simply not have bothered to negotiate with someone who could be described as a diva, so not approaching her would seem reasonable. So, no problem releasing the information.

If, on the other hand, they'd simply not approached her without any issues then they'd be the bad guy because then they'd simply dismiss the female actor as unimportant and replaceable and it would make no sense ot release the information that they didn't even approach her. 

Context changes everything! Still makes one wonder about Jones though, although she was widely under-used this season, so it's not really a surprise.

 

Fillion seems to have decided to not tweet after all (unless my twitter feet decided to not show his tweets) which suggests he, too, was unaware when he said he'd live-tweet.

[BellyLaughter]

It isn't money at all. From my understanding SK wanted specific story changes to her character which resulted in PJJ being forced to leave, that is on top of the time off request. Personal opinion here, but I wouldn't be surprised if the BTS tension and her 'demands' last season are the sole reason for them not thinking it was worth going through again.

That's why it's complicated, because yeah 'she wasn't asked back' but her coming back was always wrapped up in specific criteria being met for that to even be a reality. Can you fault a network for not asking you back when your own actions removed PJJ from her job because of your demands? That's why Patrick Munn is talking about the 'unreasonable concessions' and to ask PJJ for her story. You will see the similarities in what is happening now.

I know people probably think I'm attacking SK here, but I'm not. The show ends with her leaving in my opinion (all about the Caskett), so whatever future show is being dreamed up, is dead to me. All I will say is that this situation is far more complicated than is being reported when it is boiled down to "money", because that isn't true at all. ABC handling of this situation is very weird.

Search for alwayswritewithcoffee on tumblr. Interesting take on the situation. She claims to have known about this being a possibility for 2 weeks....

The whole things a mess and it would seem that Stana wasn't gonna return anyway.....

[KaveDweller]

It isn't money at all. From my understanding SK wanted specific story changes to her character which resulted in PJJ being forced to leave, that is on top of the time off request. Personal opinion here, but I wouldn't be surprised if the BTS tension and her 'demands' last season are the sole reason for them not thinking it was worth going through again.

 

Is that your interpretation of Patrick Munn's tweets or do you have another source? I'm not doubting it.....just wondering.

[McManda]

It isn't money at all. From my understanding SK wanted specific story changes to her character which resulted in PJJ being forced to leave, that is on top of the time off request. Personal opinion here, but I wouldn't be surprised if the BTS tension and her 'demands' last season are the sole reason for them not thinking it was worth going through again.

I stopped following the gossip long ago (it made the show better, honestly) but I'm not sure I can buy the argument that Stana was in the wrong with more time off. As far as I know, it's something Nathan was already getting and clearly she wanted some personal time to do things ... like get married. I don't know if that's necessarily unreasonable, though I'm sure there's more to it.

 

As far as Stana wanting story changes that made PJJ extraneous ... I might buy that - meaning a promotion to Captain or something like it - but of the two options we were presented it makes story sense. Maybe not that she'd become Captain of the 12th, but hey, this is TV so I'm willing to overlook it. IMO, like it or not, Stana's always been more important to the show than the supporting cast. Even though they might want to bill it as an ensemble show, it's not. And of the supporting cast they've already shown that the captain role is below the others, so while I'm sad for PJJ for various other reasons, I have a hard time with the idea that it came down to a Stana-and-her-demands or Penny that Penny was egregiously wronged. I would say that they handled her dismissal with about as much finesse as they are this issue, which says something about ABC and TPTB.

 

Fillion seems to have decided to not tweet after all (unless my twitter feet decided to not show his tweets) which suggests he, too, was unaware when he said he'd live-tweet.

Was he livetweeting tonight? He usually does the PST airing, doesn't he?

Edited April 19, 2016 by McManda

[Chado]

I stopped following the gossip long ago (it made the show better, honestly) but I'm not sure I can buy the argument that Stana was in the wrong with more time off. As far as I know, it's something Nathan was already getting and clearly she wanted some personal time to do things ... like get married. I don't know if that's necessarily unreasonable, though I'm sure there's more to it.

 

As far as Stana wanting story changes that made PJJ extraneous ... I might buy that - meaning a promotion to Captain or something like it - but of the two options we were presented it makes story sense. Maybe not that she'd become Captain of the 12th, but hey, this is TV so I'm willing to overlook it. IMO, like it or not, Stana's always been more important to the show than the supporting cast. Even though they might want to bill it as an ensemble show, it's not. And of the supporting cast they've already shown that the captain role is below the others, so while I'm sad for PJJ for various other reasons, I have a hard time with the idea that it came down to a Stana-and-her-demands or Penny that Penny was egregiously wronged. I would say that they handled her dismissal with about as much finesse as they are this issue, which says something about ABC and TPTB.

She isn't in the wrong, she can ask for whatever she wants. ABC has to agree to it afterall. Your actions and words from the past do have influence in future conversations though.

[break21]

I think the one thing we can all agree on is this entire thing is a mess.

[CheshireCat]

McManda, on 18 Apr 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

Was he livetweeting tonight? He usually does the PST airing, doesn't he?

 

His tweet doesn't say, just that he would be live-tweeting but a) he usually says if east or west coast and the last times he's done east coast. And there wasn't a single tweet of his today, so I would assume he was told (probably by his representitive) to not go on social media today.

[Chado]

Is that your interpretation of Patrick Munn's tweets or do you have another source? I'm not doubting it.....just wondering.

I have my own information from people about what happened with PJJ and season 8, I have no knowledge about what is happening right now.

 

So yes and no, it's my interpretation as to what has gone on during possible talks about season 9, but I do know the point he is making with PJJ and why it is relevant here.

[McManda]

She isn't in the wrong, she can ask for whatever she wants. ABC has to agree to it afterall. Your actions and words from the past do have influence in future conversations though.

 

Fair. I just think given what the official line on Stana's personality is and what we've heard from people that have worked with her it's hard to imagine a scenario where she went diva and left a bad taste in the mouths of TPTB. Maybe her team did her a disservice negotiating on her behalf, but ... again, it's business. If they can pull that line out for something like this, they'd have done better to remember that if they didn't like the way she/her team negotiated last time around.

 

And there wasn't a single tweet of his today, so I would assume he was told (probably by his representitive) to not go on social media today.

 

He's gotten serious crap for less so I don't blame him at all for hiding.

 

I have my own information from people about what happened with PJJ and season 8, I have no knowledge about what is happening right now.

 

Last season Seamus (I think) commented something to the effect of there were people that TPTB had to talk to and get back before he'd even be approached for more ... is this a common feeling for people in his position? Because I while I grew to like PJJ and the character of Gates, I feel like if it were me in that position I'd have to prepare for the possibility that low man on the totem pole. I'm not discounting PJJ or how she was treated because I don't know, but I can't help but think that for better or worse her character was never a high priority. Kind of like Tamala; I'm sad for her and I'd miss having Lanie around, but Lanie was always on the expendable end.

I just never would have thought they'd classify Beckett that way, too. Alls fair in Hollywood and contracts, I guess.

Edited April 19, 2016 by McManda

[FlickerToAFlame]

That alwayswritewithcoffee Tumblr makes some interesting points, particularly regarding ABC's statement:

“Kate Beckett has been a beloved character on our hit series Castle for the past 8 years. We are grateful for Stana Katic’s talent and dedication to the series and we hope to continue our relationship,” ABC said in a statement to Deadline. “Tamala Jones has also been an integral part of the series and we are grateful she was a part of Castle.“

Nowhere do they say Stana isn't coming back. They refer to Tamala in past tense. So if you ONLY read this, and not the TV Line, etc. comprehension of the topic, there's no actual confirmation of anything. Granted, it's 90% likely she isn't coming back, but what if this was really a big misunderstanding that got blown up on the Internet, and ABC can't clarify yet? (Just a "what if").

[KaveDweller]

I have my own information from people about what happened with PJJ and season 8, I have no knowledge about what is happening right now.

 

So yes and no, it's my interpretation as to what has gone on during possible talks about season 9, but I do know the point he is making with PJJ and why it is relevant here.

 

The easiest guess there was that she insisted on Beckett getting a promotion so that forced the writers to ease out PJJ. I'm not sure why Stana would want that storyline since she's gotten less to do, but she's the actress, not me. I don't disagree that ABC has a right to decide not to bother, but I think they should have decided to just wrap up the show completely. I'm guessing this was leaked to see the reaction and if it impacts ratings. I hope it does. Or that at the very least they release the series finale ending they filmed so I can pretend it ends.

 

I would so love a real expose on everything that's gone on behind the scenes. I think both leads seem like decent people who are generally liked by the cast/crew, but if even half the gossip people have posted about them are true that's not the full story. I also think Nathan must have had demands last season too and I'd like to know if they were really more reasonable or if ABC is just being sexist. Both are certainly plausible.

[McManda]

I'm not sure why Stana would want that storyline since she's gotten less to do, but she's the actress, not me.

 

That's exactly why, given it's pretty well accepted that she wanted more time off.

 

I know my heart wasn't in tonight's episode, and it wasn't just because it was Hayley heavy. Well, that's part of it but watching at all just made me sad on top of vague disinterest.

 

ABC definitely would have been better off PR-wise to avoid the cluster and just announce the end. I'm still hoping that's the case, unless by some amazing turn of bad PR planning this was all a bad ploy and things got blown out of proportion because contract negotiations weren't looking good and they wanted to gauge interest on actually letting Stana walk away.

[rspad]

Thanks for the heads up on that tumblr, BellyLaughter.  True or not, their points are interesting.  Reinforces my thought that there is always much more to the story.

 

Lesson I still need to learn - stop getting emotionally invested in television characters :)

[WendyCR72]

That's exactly why, given it's pretty well accepted that she wanted more time off.

 

I know my heart wasn't in tonight's episode, and it wasn't just because it was Hayley heavy. Well, that's part of it but watching at all just made me sad on top of vague disinterest.

 

ABC definitely would have been better off PR-wise to avoid the cluster and just announce the end. I'm still hoping that's the case, unless by some amazing turn of bad PR planning this was all a bad ploy and things got blown out of proportion because contract negotiations weren't looking good and they wanted to gauge interest on actually letting Stana walk away.

 

Not to play rain cloud, but no way would Katic's exit be announced unless/until things are final. And with her rep basically confirming that exit (and inferring it was not by her choice), it seems like a fait accompli.

 

If anything was a test about that exit, it was this season as a whole. I guess ABC feels that test was passed, even if it is in D+ territory.

 

And SK did make a statement, so...yeah. I think it's done there. The only real question now, IMO, is if S9 will proceed in any fashion or if ABC will throw in the towel and cast its fate to another show for the Mondays at 10 slot.

[BellyLaughter]

Thanks for the heads up on that tumblr, BellyLaughter.  True or not, their points are interesting.  Reinforces my thought that there is always much more to the story.

 

Lesson I still need to learn - stop getting emotionally invested in television characters :)

 

Amen!

[TWP]

This is a trial balloon probably, to see fan reaction. If the ratings completely tank then they figure it's cancelled.

Announced when the ep is called Backstabber? Someone has a bad sense of humor.

[rspad]

If anything was a tst about that exit, it was this season as a whole. I guess ABC feels that test was passed, even if it is in D+ territory.

Taking my emotion out of this whole thing, that's what I find so interesting.  I know on-line comments aren't the whole picture, but it seems the Castle PI, Alexis and Hayley heavy episodes haven't been well-received.  Add to that, comparing those episode ratings to a S9 are apples and oranges in my opinion.  I sat thru Beckett-lite episodes because I knew the character was still around and would be back on screen.  That's a whole different animal than watching a season with no Beckett which I don't plan to do.  ABC is probably accounting for a ratings drop off in its calculations, but it boggles the mind the $$ still make sense after that consideration.

 

ETA: I should note that while Caskett has been a big part of my enjoyment of the show, it goes beyond that.  I like Castle and Beckett working cases together with the boys.  Period.  That was my big problem with this S9 trial balloon (aside from some of those eps having to accommodate actors' time off).  Just had to say that.  I hate when fans get labeled, usually by defensive showrunners, as crazy shippers :)

Edited April 19, 2016 by rspad

[CheshireCat]

McManda, on 18 Apr 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

 

He's gotten serious crap for less so I don't blame him at all for hiding.

 

I don't either. I'm just saying that he announced a live-tweet yesterday and then didn't follow that up with anything today so that suggests he was told to stay away from twitter which is smart. Everyone else, by the way, seems to have gone "underground", too. Nothing after their initial reactions.

[statsgirl]

It was Cote de Pablo's choice to leave NCIS. They were writing episodes with Ziva and had to backtrack. There's probably a lot that wasn't being said because seh was in negotiations with CBS for a long time but in the end it was her decision to leave.

Interesting THR article, which says ABC considered writing Stana off last year, that NF won't sign without his bros, and that the season 8 breakup was testing the waters for a Becket-less show. How could they deem that test successful after all the outrage?!

The show had its worst ratings ever and social media generally panned the forced split this season.

 

ABC must be doing terribly if they are willing to continue with a version of the show that the most devoted fans kept complaining about.

 

The Stonekettloe Station blogger had a lovely terse comment on his Twitter feed: "It's like the people responsible for New Coke and Battlefield Earth took over Castle at the beginning of Season 8"

Perfect.

[Jaded]

With the news about Stana being out it made me think of McMillan & Wife with no more Sally and how that only lasted one more season after she was killed off.

I thought the show had been renewed already. Not sure why I thought that.

 It was bad enough last season after the first few episodes that I wanted to never watch again. I saw the season 7 finale and it seemed like nobody even cared writing wise that it was the last episode until season 8.

[BellyLaughter]

Taking my emotion out of this whole thing, that's what I find so interesting.  I know on-line comments aren't the whole picture, but it seems the Castle PI, Alexis and Hayley heavy episodes haven't been well-received.  Add to that, comparing those episode ratings to a S9 are apples and oranges in my opinion.  I sat thru Beckett-lite episodes because I knew the character was still around and would be back on screen.  That's a whole different animal than watching a season with no Beckett which I don't plan to do.  ABC is probably accounting for a ratings drop off in its calculations, but it boggles the mind the $$ still make sense after that consideration.

 

ETA: I should note that while Caskett has been a big part of my enjoyment of the show, it goes beyond that.  I like Castle and Beckett working cases together with the boys.  Period.  That was my big problem with this S9 trial balloon (aside from some of those eps having to accommodate actors' time off).  Just had to say that.  I hate when fans get labeled, usually by defensive showrunners, as crazy shippers :)

 

 

I just read over 500 comments at TVLine and I can count on ONE hand the fans who are willing to accept a Beckett-less Castle.  Please, please, please let this be a test - let them realise that it's better to end it all now.  If they are paying any kind of attention to online outrage they would have to have rocks in their heads to renew.  I am actually a little shocked at the blanket outrage this announcement has received but on top of that I would still be surprised if the ratings are really that adversely affected when they come out tomorrow.  Maybe next week will tell a different story.

Edited April 19, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[TWP]

I just read over 500 comments at TVLine and I can count on ONE hand the fans who are willing to accept a Beckett-less Castle.

Or maybe those who are willing to accept it don't care enough to post. The comments on an article that draws an outrage audience is hardly a scientific survey. Nielsen will give us an idea.

And no doubt anyone who doesn't care would hesitate to post for fear of flames.

Edited April 19, 2016 by TWP

[Samantha84]

Of course Stana is being thrown under the bus. Now she pushed PJJ out? Judging by her firing Stana doesn't have the juice to pull that off.  Never mind that she's been treated like shit by #1 on the call sheet for 2 seasons now. Who demanded to only work w her 2 days out of an 8 day episode shoot before signing on to season 8. Or that he wouldn't sign on for season 9 unless Jon and Seamus returned. Why this guy is treated like he's Pitt, Clooney or some grade A superstar by ABC is mind boggling. Sexism at it's finest.

I wish Stana luck on her next career endeavor. She deserves the best and she didn't get it these last 2 years/season on Castle. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Samantha84

[westwingfan]

Can't see the point in speculating on the upcoming episodes when we know how it ends, and certainly not interested in speculating on a S9 without Beckett, so I guess I'm done with this discussion board. I think I'll start watching my West Wing DVDs from the beginning again to make me feel better.

[WendyCR72]

Or maybe those who are willing to accept it don't care enough to post. The comments on an article that draws an outrage audience is hardly a scientific survey. Nielsen will give us an idea.

And no doubt anyone who doesn't care would hesitate to post for fear of flames.

 

I have read some say they will still watch - and, yeah, they got hell for it. Best just to shrug and stay quiet.

[BellyLaughter]

I'm not saying there aren't people out there who are indifferent either way but rarely do you see such solidarity at the TVLine comment sections - that's all.

[break21]

Thought - NF didn't know about ABC and Stana's contract negotiations. I'm going on the theory they apparently didn't talk last year.  Last year, he did his deal first, she did second - really late - they clearly hadn't talked..  Maybe he just thought it was the same-thing and he was as blind-sided as everyone.

 

I don't think NF's the bad-guy for one minute.  I'm not saying they get along, but I don't either of them are the bad guy. 

[break21]

Of course Stana is being thrown under the bus. Now she pushed PJJ out? Judging by her firing Stana doesn't have the juice to pull that off.  Never mind that she's been treated like shit by #1 on the call sheet for 2 seasons now. Who demanded to only work w her 2 days out of an 8 day episode shoot before signing on to season 8. Or that he wouldn't sign on for season 9 unless Jon and Seamus returned. Why this guy is treated like he's Pitt, Clooney or some grade A superstar by ABC is mind boggling. Sexism at it's finest.

I wish Stana luck on her next career endeavor. She deserves the best and she didn't get it these last 2 years/season on Castle.

Edited by Samantha84, 30

 

 

I know you're mad but, I always liked this board because it had some thoughtful discussion about why thing happened instead of just a fan-board or venting.

 

I'm more interested in the why than venting - other fan boards for that

 

(I'm sorry - my computer doesn't do quotes).

[Mom x 3]

Hey!  I have a reason to start watching again!  I will definitely give the new Castle a chance.  I liked Stana/Beckett, but the heavy handed drama they gave her was just too much, and it was so poorly written.  Hopefully the tone will lighten again light in the first few seasons.  

[Samantha84]

I know you're mad but, I always liked this board because it had some thoughtful discussion about why thing happened instead of just a fan-board or venting.

 

I'm more interested in the why than venting - other fan boards for that

 

(I'm sorry - my computer doesn't do quotes).

I'm not angry. I'm rather sad - as a woman - at the continued and blatant sexism that plagues Hollywood and the world. That a woman's value is not equal to a man.   Reputable sites (The Hollywood Reporter, Deadline, EW, TVGuide, Variety) have confirmed what I said so this is not the ranting of an angry, former, fan. 

The writing on the wall for Stana's firing since season 7. The only thing shocking about this whole situation is that she was fired and that she left on her own. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Samantha84

[break21]

Samantha - I'm a feminist from long ago and I don't think this was sexism.  I think a lot of BTS/contractual stuff was going on behind the scenes,  But I know how much you respect Stana, and I respect your opinion as well.  No hard feelings - just discussion.

[Chado]

I'm not angry. I'm rather sad - as a woman - at the continued and blatant sexism that plagues Hollywood and the world. That a woman's value is not equal to a man.   Reputable sites (The Hollywood Reporter, Deadline, EW, TVGuide, Variety) have confirmed what I said so this is not the ranting of an angry, former, fan. 

The writing on the wall for Stana's firing since season 7. The only thing shocking about this whole situation is that she was fired and that she left on her own. 

ABC Television Executive Channing Dungey is a woman. Shonda pretty much runs half the ABC network with her catalogue of shows, also a woman.

 

To reduce Stana's situation down to her sex....is just missing what has actually happened in this situation. There has been heaps of contractual issues and BTS issues that have heavily influenced what has gone on here. Her being 'let go' is a very PC way to explain what's happened here.

 

I'm all for gender equality, but this has nothing to do with sexism.

[BellyLaughter]

Yep it's not about sexism but it is about a hell of a lot more than what has so far been said...... but not sexism.

[femmefan1946]

If Stana was the one who wanted out of the show, she was getting some bad advice.

Mention of two actors  (Melina Kanakaredes & Cote de Pablo) who were dropped or asked to leave long running shows made me go to IMDB, since I was unfamiliar with them.

From what I read, neither of them did any TV or movie work for two years after leaving their shows, and have had only a few jobs since. Now, they may have been taking maternity leave, or doing a lot of theatre, or writing the Great American Novel, but leaving a show doesn't seem to do an actor's CV any good.

Or of course, they may just have aged out, since one was born in 1967 and the other in 1979. Oh dear, Stana was born in 1978.

(not safe for work)

[Noggin]

Penny Johnson Jerald ‏@btwprod  22m22 minutes ago
Waited all day to respond with dignity...NO WORDS.

 

I have real doubts that Stana's contractual demands led to this state.....they could have gotten rid of Hayley/Vikram or the Firefly clan that keep turning up. I rather think that what she really wanted was parity with the so called #1 on the call sheet, and he's certainly been known to stamp his feet in the past, but to effectively fire her in this way is shameful, as is the way it was handled with the rest of the cast and crew....coincidental with last nights Backstabber Hayley centric episode.

[BellyLaughter]

Penny's tweet was all class as usual and timely considering some of the mumblings today about Stana's S8 contract demands costing PJJ her job. Solidarity is a precious commodity in Hollywood.

[Julia]

I just think it's - striking? - that with those four hundred jobs on the table, the one person the show can't survive without is still negotiating his own contract and letting his coworkers take the heat. Because I'm sure all four hundred of them have also become rich enough to never have to work again if he doesn't get the deal he wants.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Julia

[BellyLaughter]

Huh?

[Julia]

Well, viewers are supposed to get on board for another season from producers they don't trust sight unseen because 400 jobs, yes? And yet, unless you figure they're gonna greenlight the Martha, Alexis and Toks grrlpower hour, the one essential person here is Nathan Fillion. I'm just saying, he may not be able to guarantee those 400 jobs, but they certainly won't be there without him. And the only word about his being willing to return if the show comes back is that negotiations are ongoing.

We all have priorities. I just feel like I know a little more now about who in this situation is expected to take one for the team.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Julia

[cappuccino]

This reminds me of House, M.D. and how they kicked out Lisa Edelstein.

 

I wasn't into the season and I haven't watched this weeks episode yet but I guess I can leave it be now anyway. I'll wait if they cancel the show or not. I hope it gets canceled. Totally stupid to ditch the leading lady especially when it's gonna be a shortened season and probably the last anyway. I don't get how they can just throw away all those years of work and heart they put into the show.

Edited April 19, 2016 by cappuccino

[BellyLaughter]

Sorry I'm just a bit confused! Are you saying Nathan shouldn't feel obligated to return just to keep people in jobs and/or he's expected to return into a shitstorm for the sake of 400 jobs?? Therefore taking one for the team - and that is unfair??

Sorry for not quoting. This is in reply to Julia's last post!

Edited April 19, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[Julia]

I'm saying that if the cast is going to hand out the guilt about not wanting to give the people who cratered the old show a chance to rise from the ashes, they should probably start closer to home. The whole show rests on one back now. And since he signed on for this season and the show was renewed before she agreed to come back, we know that's not a dealbreaker.

So, yeah, since he was on board when they sowed the wind, if those 400 people matter to him, he should suck it up and reap some whirlwind.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Julia

[BellyLaughter]

Oh ok cool! I agree but will he have the guts to take the risk cause it's a pretty big one!?? Personally I don't think he has a choice given how I think everything has gone down.

Time will tell.

[Princess Lucky]

If Stana was the one who wanted out of the show, she was getting some bad advice.

Mention of two actors  (Melina Kanakaredes & Cote de Pablo) who were dropped or asked to leave long running shows made me go to IMDB, since I was unfamiliar with them.

From what I read, neither of them did any TV or movie work for two years after leaving their shows, and have had only a few jobs since. Now, they may have been taking maternity leave, or doing a lot of theatre, or writing the Great American Novel, but leaving a show doesn't seem to do an actor's CV any good.

 

To be fair, staying on a show doesn't do much either, except a decent (but less decent than that of male co-stars) salary for an extra year or two. After an actress has been on a show for, like, 8 years, whether she stays on for 9 or 12 is pointless. It's just the money (because by that point they'll be tapped out creatively anyway). Sure, it makes a difference for Stana to be out of a job now instead of, like, next Christmas, but that's the only difference. I would argue that it was different for Cote because NCIS will be on for the next 10 years, while Castle is pretty much dead, but again the difference is negligible.

 

Oh and we do mention actresses because they're much more expendable in the eyes of execs, but I'd like to add Chris Meloni who left SVU in a similar way (similar to Cote, I mean, after negotiations that didn't work out, plus the added creative burnout). I'm glad that on that show the woman prevailed and it's gone on to have 5 (soon to be 6) additional seasons without the dude. It's refreshing. Hell, I'll also add Grey's (which has been mentioned above, and which had BTS drama so it's sort of comparable to Castle) even though that's a bigger ensemble.

 

I do agree that it's strange that ABC is willing to let this play out like that. The female lead of the show, the co-lead, not even being considered for an additional season, that's harsh and, indeed, disrespectful to the fans of the show (let alone Stana herself). Maybe ABC has nothing to say because there's no way to justify it? What are they supposed to say? "We needed to cut costs and we came up with this new PI setting, so getting rid of Beckett saves us both money and drama?"

 

Eh.

[TWP]

I'm not saying there aren't people out there who are indifferent either way but rarely do you see such solidarity at the TVLine comment sections - that's all.

The TVLINE comments have always seemed pretty single-minded to me. I say that as someone who typically sided with the minority, aka I didn't care. Never saw many who sided with me

I mentioned to a friend that they'd cut Stana. She watches on and off, saw a preview for the Hayley show and said,"oh, they replaced Beckett with her?" I filled her in on the details. People who get passionate enough to post on the internet are a pretty small subset of the 5 or 6 million viewers. I think most are more similar to my friend. Internet outrage creates a small blip and the network knows it.

BTW, Michael Weatherly is leaving NCIS, replaced by something of an unknown. The network quite possibly never approached him either. We'll never know. I think we're probably seeing more of the ugly underside than usual. I wonder why. Poor management?

[roomtorome]

This business is and always has been a cutthroat business and it is also very secretive normally about these sorts of employment issues; people are usually very careful about they say publicly given that what they say can very well impact future hirings on other projects.  I doubt the public will ever know the full truth. 

 

I don't believe for a minute that NF has the total yes/no on this show going forward.  The producers, etc may still be weighing that and his situation will be one factor  - yes, a major one - but one, that will be added to the heap to decide.  There's plenty of rumors and there have been for some time.  I don't personally pay attention to them because there are so many agendas out there and I also know the truth is just not going to be known by me so I focus on the show.  

 

This thing has been such a load of nonsense now for a few years - and, being someone who is not or never has been invested in the two of them as a couple - I just feel they might want to put it out of its misery.  

 

It started out fun - with a very suave, witty, fun character wooing the reluctant woman - NF gave it a bit of the 30s style of romantic comedy feel (sorry, I always thought SK was terribly miscast in that I don't think she can pull off humor well, at all) - and, it was fun.  

 

Then they morphed Castle into something unrecognizable and lovesick and bumbling and it was just not fun for me anymore.  

 

If they kill off his wife or even if she leaves him and he begins his life as a full time private detective - (what did happen to his writing anyway?) - it leaves the show in a dark place and I can't imagine my wanting to watch it but mostly because I can barely watch it now.

 

It's a shame though - because if plan could just be about the first version of the character (Castle) being a PI part time with a gal/guy Friday, I would enjoy that if it was well written.  There really aren't any PI shows on anymore like there used to be but something fun like the Rockford Files or something equally fun and adventurous would be welcome - by me - but I don't see how these writers will suddenly turn into good writers or how they deal with her leaving without it being a big depressing hole in the show.

 

My vote is they kill off the show and maybe NF at some point gets something lighthearted that he actually enjoys doing.

 

A lot of people in his position have it built into their contracts that they get first crack at roles in new shows - 

 

I'm not willing to blame him or anyone else specifically for this all just yet - not until actual facts come out and they won't be coming out. 

 

I could barely watch last night's episode but mostly because I don't care about Hayley (or however you spell it) and I was bored.  

 

I looked at SK's IMdB page and it indicates 4 movies recently.  Maybe she has already found her niche and is happy with the direction of her career.  

[westwingfan]

 

I looked at SK's IMdB page and it indicates 4 movies recently.  Maybe she has already found her niche and is happy with the direction of her career.  

It's actually three movies, Sister Cities, The Rendezvous, and Lost in Florence. The Tourist was the original title for Lost in Florence but IMDb relies on users to update pages and they are not always reliable or up to date. She usually has at least one indie movie lined up for the summer so it will be interesting to see what she has planned for this year. Fillion will no doubt be in training for the extra workload he will have to carry as the sole lead if S9 actually happens, unless Molly and Toks take over the heavy lifting from Stana, and he just sits in his office controlling his angels.

[LexieLily]

Are we allowed to link to outside links here? If not I will take it down.

 

But if so, here. http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/castles-stana-katic-nathan-fillion-feuding-attended-couples-counseling-w203196

 

They are putting it out there now that Stana and Nathan hate each other and were even sent to couples counseling.

[westwingfan]

Are we allowed to link to outside links here? If not I will take it down.

 

But if so, here. http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/castles-stana-katic-nathan-fillion-feuding-attended-couples-counseling-w203196

 

They are putting it out there now that Stana and Nathan hate each other and were even sent to couples counseling.

I wonder what Kris thought of that LOL. Maybe someone should have banged their heads together when things began to get frought.

Edited April 19, 2016 by westwingfan

[KaveDweller]

ABC Television Executive Channing Dungey is a woman. Shonda pretty much runs half the ABC network with her catalogue of shows, also a woman.

 

To reduce Stana's situation down to her sex....is just missing what has actually happened in this situation. There has been heaps of contractual issues and BTS issues that have heavily influenced what has gone on here. Her being 'let go' is a very PC way to explain what's happened here.

 

I'm all for gender equality, but this has nothing to do with sexism.

I think the sexism part is if she was let go because she's been labeled some kind of diva behind the scenes, while Nathan had similar issues/demands and stays on. I don't know enough about whether that happened, but I think that's what a lot of people are thinking. I don't think it was just, "oh, let's get rid of the women" though.