Fixing The Challenge

[Lantern7]

No, this is not about rigging events to make sure "Johnny Bananas" doesn't win. This is about tweaking The Challenge into something that's more interesting . . . and given how MTV has stuck it in 11 p,m. on Tuesday night, things have to get better for the show. Here what I got, at least in terms of a future "Free Agents" edition:

 

1. Limit The Player Size

 

I'm thinking they can compete as individuals, male/female or same-sex pairs, or in quartets. Anything larger would be overkill, and it would play further havoc to the stats I had been keeping prior to last season.

 

2. Eliminate The Automatic Elimination Entry

 

Instead of having the winners select somebody to do into Elimination, they would vote one boy and one girl to not go into the "elimination round." One proviso would be that no person could be selected for immunity twice in a row.

 

3. Institute Mass Hysteria

 

Rather than have people go one at a time to flip cards, line up all the losers with one card each (at random), then have them flip. Two unlucky players would draw the "kill card" and have to face off in the elimination round. I like the idea that winning would be the only way not to be eliminated. This would also wipe out any possibility of flipping multiple cards, like Jordan did to face Johnny.

 

4. Replace TJ Lavin

 

Okay, this is more of a general complaint. I'm tired of seeing Teege stink up season after season. I have a list of people who would've fit the bill to replace him over the years, but I'll keep it short: Devyn Simone. Come on, this girl is funny, she's easy on the eyes, and she's lasted two Challenges (Battle of the Seasons, Free Agents) while getting chump change for it. All she needs is a cute wardrobe and a box of weaves, and she'd be set.

 

What other ideas would you have to improve the show?

[choclatechip45]

I wish they would change the environment so we could see some old school players come back. I remember an interview with Katie after Cutthroat and she said they've cut down on the "free time" and they keep the cast on a tight leash these days. I don't have much sympathy for BMP cast members, but I can see why some old school cast members want nothing to do with the show anymore.

Edited January 3, 2015 by choclatechip45

[atlanticslide]

I'd like to see a return to the larger team format, as I'm getting a little sick of pair teams. I really liked the Free Agents format, but I'd like to see large teams from start to finish again, and a final challenge that benefits from having a large team to cut back on the "trimming the fat" mission-throwing.

 

I'd also like to see fewer strength/endurance challenges and some more varied types of challenge - more puzzles, memory games, strategy games, etc.

 

I may be in the minority, but I love TJ. That said, Devyn really would make a great host.

[choclatechip45]

 

I'd like to see a return to the larger team format, as I'm getting a little sick of pair teams. I really liked the Free Agents format, but I'd like to see large teams from start to finish again, and a final challenge that benefits from having a large team to cut back on the "trimming the fat" mission-throwing.

I would really like The Real World vs Road Rules vs Fresh Meat, but I doubt these days they would be able to get enough to fill out Road Rules or Fresh Meat teams. They really should of done Old School vs New School instead of Rivals 2. It would of been pretty funny to have Bananas and Wes deal with people like Trishelle, Jasmine, Jonna, Ty and Tyrie  being on there team or Frank and Nany having to work together. Production really dropped the ball on that one IMO.

Edited January 3, 2015 by choclatechip45

[Lantern7]

In the wake of the "collar" theme in the upcoming Survivor, how about a "school" Challenge? Old School would be the regulars we've grown to love/loathe, New School would be the (relatively) new Challengers, and No School would be the "graduates"; people who have moved on with their lives and have actual jobs. Colors could be used instead of "schools," but you get the idea.

[choclatechip45]

 

In the wake of the "collar" theme in the upcoming Survivor, how about a "school" Challenge? Old School would be the regulars we've grown to love/loathe, New School would be the (relatively) new Challengers, and No School would be the "graduates"; people who have moved on with their lives and have actual jobs. Colors could be used instead of "schools," but you get the idea.

I like that idea. It always bothered me that "Old School" consisted of how many challenges you have done. I remember watching Gauntlet 2 which aired shortly after San Diego and Xtreme and thinking it was ridiculous to see Derrick, Brad, and Robin on the Old School team. It would be funny to see Beth, Coral and Veronica all on the same team and whoop Bannnas, Zach, Nany and Jonna.

 

ETA right after I wrote this I checked Coral's twitter and she was tweeting with Nany a couple of days ago.

Edited January 3, 2015 by choclatechip45

[KerleyQ]

I may be in the minority, but I love TJ. That said, Devyn really would make a great host.

 

I'm with you.  I have an odd affection for TJ, and it would feel weird for him to not be there at this point.  I'd love to see him and Devyn co-hosting in some way, or give Devyn the After Show duties.  

[SnideAsides]

I was thinking about how to get the Old School/New School format to work myself, and I agree three teams a la Cutthroat is probably the best idea. I don't think it would ever happen if it was just Old vs. New, but maybe have one team from 1990s seasons (the first eight of both RW and RR), one from 2000s seasons (RW New Orleans to RW Cancun, and from RR9 onwards), and one from 2010 to now? We'd get the divide everybody seems to want, but the split would also allow MTV to keep the cast relatively young overall. But that still assumes that when they do it, they'll cast the show better than they usually do. I mean, I like watching these assholes suffer as much as the next person, but what I'd really love is to be able to support more than two people in a season for once, you know?

[Lantern7]

I'd go by Gauntlet 2 and Gauntlet III rules as a guideline: two or more appearances gets you on Old School. Rookies and sophomores belong to New School, with more recent personalities getting tacked on. Finally, No School would be people we haven't seen in at least three years and/or people who would have gotten on with their lives. I know, it sounds subjective, but it would be interesting to see if any of the "normal" people would be as dramatic or productive as competitors. For the sake of argument, "normal" would be along the lines of Cynthia in Battle Of The Sexes 2. Who saw her coming?

 

ETA: I'd also take Coral as a host. I don't know if she doesn't want to come back, or if she's on a "bad" list because she quit Gauntlet III.

[choclatechip45]

 

I'd also take Coral as a host. I don't know if she doesn't want to come back, or if she's on a "bad" list because she quit Gauntlet III.

Didn't she host The Real World Portland Reunion?  I remember reading she was asked for Free Agents, but declined because she didn't think she would have been in good enough shape to compete.

Edited January 8, 2015 by choclatechip45

[Lantern7]

I figure if Coral would host, she'd get to bring her daughter with her, as opposed to leaving her at home. Or maybe she could host the After Show. This isn't taking away from Devyn, but I think Coral could be a better host, especially since she's divorced enough from the current stable where she can snark on them without consequence.

 

An idea recycled from a blog I posted back in 2008 (scroll down to "Finale"): instead of an endurance mission at the very end, why not use the elimination format? Each player would get another "life" for every endgame won, as well as for valuable performances in missions. If a team runs out of "lives," the other side wins. It would be a marathon of sorts, but it would compress the universe to a small arena. Afterward, "surviving" members of the winning side would face each other, with one person getting a six-figure payday separate from the victorious team's shares.

[joanne3482]

I don't think it would ever happen if it was just Old vs. New, but maybe have one team from 1990s seasons (the first eight of both RW and RR), one from 2000s seasons (RW New Orleans to RW Cancun, and from RR9 onwards), and one from 2010 to now?

 

At the risk of making myself cry over how old I am, the 90s was 20 years ago. Is it really "fair" to have a 42 year old competing against a 22 year old? I know that in shape varies and there may be plenty of competitors in their 40s who are in shape enough to do this, but even if they are that doesn't mean their bodies are well enough to do it.

 

a final challenge that benefits from having a large team to cut back on the "trimming the fat" mission-throwing.

 

God the 'trimming the fat' was so awful. I'm glad whatever they've done they seem to get away from that mentality.

 

I'd also like to see fewer strength/endurance challenges and some more varied types of challenge - more puzzles, memory games, strategy games, etc.

 

I agree and I'd go further into saying if they are going to do more puzzles, memory games etc make them actually difficult. Christ, twice one season they did the same tangram puzzle into a square - not even into a different shape! - and whenever they do a spelling bee or trivia quiz the questions are so painfully easy. It makes me weep for the possible future of this country if some of these idiots might be leading it. (Although I did love that I think it was Zach who knew all sorts of Disney princess information).

 

I admit I haven't seen ALL of the seasons but I'd like to see no teams at all. No playing in pairs. No teams. The winning male and female are safe from the whatever and the remainder go and do the kill card thing Lantern7 suggested.  Just one season I would like to see that those damn alliances that always boot out the new kids not work. (of course if the new kids had half a brain, they'd band together themselves and do a counter-alliance but instead they are busy prostrating themselves at the feet of the old guard).

 

I'd also like to see once no eliminations. Each member gets points and the points give them some sort of advantage in the final round challenge, or extra cash or whatever. Let these fools (and by extension the viewers) suffer with each other the entire month they are doing their thing. That has all sorts of crazy potential.

[choclatechip45]

 

Just one season I would like to see that those damn alliances that always boot out the new kids not work. (of course if the new kids had half a brain, they'd band together themselves and do a counter-alliance but instead they are busy prostrating themselves at the feet of the old guard).

Did you watch Battle of the Sexes 2? The "newbie" females did just that Ibis, Robin and Sophia teamed up with Katie, Ruthie and Anessa and took out Rachel and Veronica.

[jsm1125]

Did you watch Battle of the Sexes 2? The "newbie" females did just that Ibis, Robin and Sophia teamed up with Katie, Ruthie and Anessa and took out Rachel and Veronica.

 

IIRC, however, Katie and Aneesa ended up getting eliminated before Veronica, who I always felt was a bit underrated as a player.

[choclatechip45]

 

IIRC, however, Katie and Aneesa ended up getting eliminated before Veronica, who I always felt was a bit underrated as a player.

You are correct, however the Rachel boot is the closest we've seen to people actually trying to shake up things on this show. I agree about Veronica I actually always like her more than Katie even during the Inferno.

 

Also didn't Wes/Svetlana/Brad/Anessa have some outsider alliance in the Duel 1? I think my biggest complaint about the Current Era of The Challenge is something that of all people Trishelle said on Twitter while Rivals 2 was airing back in the original Gauntlet/Inferno days these people all seemed to be friends and were all going on vacation to compete. Now it just seems like a Cross fit Challenge and I don't enjoy it as much.

Edited January 6, 2015 by choclatechip45

[joanne3482]

Did you watch Battle of the Sexes 2? The "newbie" females did just that Ibis, Robin and Sophia teamed up with Katie, Ruthie and Anessa and took out Rachel and Veronica.

 

I can't remember if I did or not, but that one was back in 2004. In almost all the most recent challenges this has not happened. Even though I watched Free Agents, I had forgotten that it was sort of supposed to be an individual challenge, even though it really wasn't played that way. 

[choclatechip45]

 

I can't remember if I did or not, but that one was back in 2004. In almost all the most recent challenges this has not happened. Even though I watched Free Agents, I had forgotten that it was sort of supposed to be an individual challenge, even though it really wasn't played that way.

I agree. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that the people who do The Challenge don't do speaking engagements/club appearances anymore like they used too. If you see someone all the time/are forced to be with them more it's harder to be intimated by them.

[Lantern7]

From the episode thread: 

 

A couple of months ago bananas did an interview with grantland where he basically said how the challenge needs him to go on, he point the failure on bots and said how now it's impossible to make a challenge that doesn't involve him or ct, and that basically he needs to make it to the end so the ratings can do good. He was so full of it, basically saying you guys should call the johnny bananas challenge.

 

Show of hands. . . who would accept Johnny as host? I wouldn't, and I don't think I'd want it to happen to keep the show alive. I honestly don't think the show hinges on one person in particular. . . I prefer to think that the unruly mob brought in makes the show. Basically, the show is like something out Pinocchio's story, where all the bad boys hang out to smoke and drink . . . except they don't turn into donkeys and get sold into labor. Also, donkeys are cute. A lot of the people we see aren't.

[luckyroll3]

I wouldn't want Johnny as host.  I need him to go the way of Evan and Kenny.  Well, Kenny can show up every once in a while because he's pretty to look at.

[atlanticslide]

Johnny's ego is so overinflated at this point I think he's just in his own universe, totally detached from reality.

[fredj]

Production is the one to blame, they have given johnny the power to make those statements, if they wouldn't have cast him on every single challenge he wouldn't be saying that, and how is that the minute johnny complains about not been cast, (BOTS) production rewards him on putting him on the next challenge using a "twitter beef".

[SnideAsides]

Johnny needs to get a real job, but as Lilit said on EHG, who would want to say "Good morning, Mr. Bananas" every day at work?

[choclatechip45]

If they do Rivals 3 I hope its Males/Females teams.

[luckyroll3]

I've been thinking about something that kind of goes along with the Rivals theme. I think they should take some of the power players, 4-6 of them, and make them coaches. Then they should be assigned teams of people who have been their rivals or historically part of other alliances. They then have to coach those teams to victory, without actually competing themselves. For the 2 losing teams each challenge, the coaches would have to battle in a duel to decide which team gets to continue on. No voting, just straight competition; if you don't want to go home, then make sure your team isn't in the bottom.

[Watermelon]

I definitely think the voting/nominating has to go. I'd much rather they go back to ranking, with the bottom contestants immediately in the elimination round.

[Bob Sambob]

Anybody else expect Jenna & Brianna to falter at the puzzle? They should have been awarded with a free kick to Johnny's nuts. I'm not certain that they should win . . . .they would be the first team not to have been initially cast on The Real World or The Challenge.

 

Jenna was brought in midseason of Ex-Plosion as Jay's ex. I don't consider her a full-fledged cast member. Same with Camila coming from Spring Break Challenge.

 

These posts from another thread bring up a good argument  ... are you OK with the feeder systems utilized to breed new "Challenge" cast members.

 

"Road Rules," in all reality, was canceled in 2004. They brought it back for one more season in 2007 (with former cast members), which featured the Pit Crew (many of which never ended up on the RV). So, in essence, "Road Rules" hasn’t been a true feeder system for "The Challenge" for 12 years (Derrick, the star of the last true "Road Rules" season in 2004, is in his mid-30s now).

 

"The Real World" only airs one season a year now, unlike the two a year they were doing in the early 2000s. But the twists of the last couple seasons ("Ex-Plosion" and "Skeletons") were designed well in advance to accommodate multiple cast members, so to consider Jenna not a real cast member is a little inaccurate – she was vetted at the same time that Jay was in the casting process. It technically was possible for Jenna to be the “cast member” and Jay to have been the “ex,” if they'd chosen to go that way. The same holds true with the “Skeletons,” ... well, maybe not Jason's father.

 

So, in terms of "The Challenge," the feeder system was always Real World and Road Rules cast members. But the show evolved …

 

First, you added Fresh Meat (which produced Ev, Kenny, Evan, Diem, Big Easy, Casey and Ryan for multiple Challenges).

 

Then, you had the Pit Crew from Road Rules: Viewer’s Revenge (which produced Tori, first and foremost, but also Dan, Angel and Derek).

 

Then you had Fresh Meat II (which produced Cara Maria, Laurel, Theresa, but also Brandon, Mandi and Vinny).

 

Then you had Spring Break Challenge (which is very canonical, in my opinion, since all the coaches were long-time show veterans and TJ Lavin was the host), and it produced Camila’s epic debut -- something that every veteran present and TJ himself said was the most hilarious and even memorable thing he’d seen so far on the show.

 

Then, we had the "Are You The One?" kids.

 

And now, we have the "Bloodlines."

 

A fair question: do you not consider Diem a canonical cast member? She wasn’t on Real World or Road Rules, either.

 

We haven’t had a new true Road Ruler in 12 years (hence the show just being called “The Challenge” now), and with a few exceptions, ex-Road Rulers have routinely NOT shown up since Derrick “retired” five years ago.

 

So, if the show is going to continue, "The Real World" alone just ain’t cutting it anymore. Some other avenue is necessary to produce new Challengers. I mean, do people still want to see 47-year-old Beth showing up for another Challenge?

Edited February 14, 2016 by Bob Sambob

[rho]

Personally I would rather see a new season of Fresh Meat than try to integrate the AYTO kids into The Challenge. Nia was only on half a season of RW so that set a precedent for people like Jenna who weren't there from the beginning but are considered RW cast. It's implied that anyone on RW is in the running for The Challenge. That hasn't been the case for AYTO until recently.

 

There's nothing about them that shows any interest in the athletic part of this competition. None of them ever get very far or make a worthwhile impression. Maybe I'll change my tune if people start jumping on the AYTO train with the intention of joining the pool of Challenge contestants but for now I would much prefer a Fresh Meat III. Plus, that would bring in 12-16 new challengers at once instead of the 2-4 AYTO kids they try to trickle in every season.

[Stinger97]

I remember when people (including me) scoffed at the idea of Fresh Meat. I mean, these kids never appeared on RW/RR and they're doing the RW/RR Challenge? Da fuck? But then I kind of got over it, especially since most of them integrated themselves fairly well over the years. In fact, until someone mentioned it, I forgot that Diem was never a RW/RR cast member. So yea, at this point, I kind of don't care that much about how the producers find new cast members anymore. Although if you're going to bring in AYTO folks, at least make sure they're fun to watch. 

[KerleyQ]

I prefer doing a Fresh Meat season to bringing in AYTO kids just because of the odds that we'll find more interesting people.  With a FM season, we get a bigger pool of newbies (upping the odds that we'll find a few that end up being "keepers"), and those newbies are all paired with returning cast members, so we have a little more reason to be interested in them right out of the gate.  With most formats of this show, any AYTO people brought in will likely be contained to each other (Rivals, Exes, Seasons), or grouped in with a bunch of other relative newbies (Rookies vs. Veterans).   If they're not tied to someone we're already interested in, it makes it that much more difficult for them to catch our interest.  

[LotusFlower]

So, if the show is going to continue, "The Real World" alone just ain’t cutting it anymore. Some other avenue is necessary to produce new Challengers. I mean, do people still want to see 47-year-old Beth showing up for another Challenge?

 

I know you're kidding, but you know what?  For just one Challenge - bring back the old-timers!  I think it would be hilarious.  (I admit - I go back to season one Real World, so I'd get a kick out of seeing old-timers).  Sure, they'd lag behind on strength and endurance (most of them, probably), but I bet they'd whip the kids' asses on trivia challenges, right?  I know tv is all about the young and the pretty, but just one time - I think it would be interesting.  And even competitive.

[rho]

Or bring them back like they have been with CT this season. Instead of asking the OG vets to commit to six weeks away from work and kids, fly them in for a single episode and incorporate them somehow. Instead of two teams facing off against each other, they are in competition with the ol' timers. 

[KerleyQ]

Or bring them back like they have been with CT this season. Instead of asking the OG vets to commit to six weeks away from work and kids, fly them in for a single episode and incorporate them somehow. Instead of two teams facing off against each other, they are in competition with the ol' timers. 

 

I'd like that.  They never know who is going to show up from one challenge to the next, and there are a lot of ways they can go with exactly how they work that format (in terms of the missions themselves and eliminations after).  If, say, you're doing an Exes or Rivals type format, where the cast is on teams of 2, then you could bring in a team of two old timers, and the cast is all competing to beat their time (or their count if it's a mission measured in that way).  Every team who doesn't perform better than the old timers is eligible to be voted into elimination (so the only way to remain safe is to beat the old timers).  Maybe the old timers get to pick one team, and the cast gets to vote in the other team. Even better if the cast doesn't find out who the old timers have voted in until right when they're voting, so there's no time for the cast to plan and manipulate to get the exact result they want. 

[rho]

It would either make for a really great season, or totally tank! But I love the idea of giving the vets the power since it doesn't affect them in the long run. Anyone who does better than the vets is safe but those who did worse are in the elimination pool. That way everyone need to compete for a chance to stay (not like on bloodlines where half of them don't even make an attempt and just coast their way to the end).

[shantown]

I really want there to be more fun challenges and more challenges that aren't purely based on physical strength. I remember watching Road Rules way back in the day, and one challenge that has always stuck with me was when the Northern Trails kids were caddies on a celebrity golf tournament. They had to get their celebrity golfer to say a list of five secret words, and they got money for each word they somehow got them to say. It was funny to watch, took skill but not strength, and was unlike other missions they had. More things like that would be interesting. I'm sick of "climb this really high rope" and "jump off this really high platform" and "carry this really heavy object."

[whirlingdervish]

I really liked the diversity of the old challenges, too, and would love to see more fun challenges and non-athletic challenges in the mix.

 

My only issue with a dating show like Are You The One as one of the two farm teams for the Challenge is that it guarantees that at least 50% of the talent pool are all heteronormative, which is kind of a bummer in 2016. 

[RedheadZombie]

This season had a surprise final three, but I think it's a fluke. I get tired of how important alliances are, and how predictable it is that the rookies get sent in time and again.

I remember a season (Fresh Meat 1 or 2?), in which the bottom two teams had their pit/duel/whatever away from the other teams. It was similar to an obstacle course, and the winning team would keep secret what they did. It gave an advantage to the teams who got sent in frequently, and I liked that.

I'm also tired of people like Aneesa skating through to the final. So I think it would be interesting if the winning team from the pit/duel/whatever won an advantage or clue. That way, there would be incentive to risk going in.

[Lantern7]

Idle notion: Each player has to pony up $5,000 in order to compete. They get the money back, either when eliminated or at the end of the season. If you quit, you lose the money. Fights would be a bit of nebulous area . . . do you punish the instigator? The one throwing the first punch? Would part of the deposit be forfeited?

[Lantern7]

Thought while I'm watching tonight's episode: if the Double Cross gets brought back, have the player announce who he/she wants to send in before the draw is made.

[luckyroll3]

11 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Thought while I'm watching tonight's episode: if the Double Cross gets brought back, have the player announce who he/she wants to send in before the draw is made.

Oooh....I like that.  Expose the decisions before the double cross gets pulled and have everyone was was named sweating.

[Lantern7]

Better idea: each person writes the name of the person they send in and hand it to TJ. When the person comes up, Teege inserts it into a slot on the stand/podium. If the Double Cross is pulled, the name is revealed. If not, Teege takes the card and throws it into a fire.

Heading into next week: instead of having players instantly eliminated if they screw up trivia, how about giving them something to cling to? You get situated above water in a seat, with handlebars above you. Screw up two questions, the seat gets knocked out, and you have to cling on for dear life. I think the biggest stumbling block is multiple people going into the water at the same time, leading to injuries.

[snarts]

I'd like to see a Challenge where the whole cast stays the entire season.  Sick to death of eliminations and seeing the same people at the end.  Use a point system/leader board to determine the winner but keeping 20+ in the house for the entire time will lead to more interesting storylines than watching Bananas screw over some naive rookies for the 50th time.

[Lantern7]

Question: should endgames be adjusted where there wouldn’t be a situation like the Joss/Derrick Ring, where they kept going out of bounds and having to start over? I heard that lasted ninety minutes. As much as I’m okay with physical stuff, as much as I can respect players who give it their all (did you hear from TRL when they rebooted, Chet?), I feel the absolute worst might happen. And while I firmly believe BMP will only shut down once they film somebody dying on-camera, that’s still too grimy to contemplate.