Belle: She loves books

[Rumsy4]

Belle runs like an awkward teenager. Those heels don't help her poise.

I wonder what she'll make of Rumple now.

[Shanna Marie]

Considering that Rumple didn't start amassing stuff until he became the Dark One, I was wondering why Belle was wasting time searching the shop for something he touched before he was the Dark One when not too long ago, there was the whole plot of Rumple trying to crush Hook's heart because he needed the heart of someone who knew him before he was the Dark One. Surely that came up in the library research sessions where they were rehashing that, and wouldn't Hook be the person to go to for Rumple's pre-Dark One days? Or what about Bae's shawl, made by Milah? The thing that was such a pivotal object in season 2 that Belle went to Hook's ship to steal back? Isn't that still around?

 

I liked Belle's outfit tonight. It suited her character. But the shoes are ridiculous. It seems like her personality would wear cute ballet flats.

[Camera One]

Who can find a shawl in that mess?

[HoodlumSheep]

I liked Belle this episode. Too bad she's stuck with Rumple, because she can be awesome without him. I loved the scene that paralleled when she kicked him out of town. She chose not to run.

I'd have rather had her pull out Excalibur than Rumple. She was more deserving of it.

[mjgchick]

Belle should've pulled the sword not her husband. Belle did most of the work and she didn't get to save the day.

[HoodlumSheep]

^ I know. She honestly got cheated, but I suppose it probably doesn't fit whatever wack-a-doodle plot A&E have planned.

[YaddaYadda]

Belle was definitely the true hero in all of this. 

 

I think the only reason people even tolerate Rumple is because of Belle. 

[mjgchick]

Its true. A year ago Hook would've said something much harsher about comparing Emma to Rumple. I feel bad for her sometimes because she'll accept anything from Rumple as soon as he pulls out his crocodile tears. Pun intended.

Pregnancy looks good on Emile.

Edited November 2, 2015 by mjgchick

[Mathius]

Speaking of which,

spoilers indicate that Belle drives out of Storybrooke in the 5A finale, so I think they're writing her out of the show for the duration of Emilie's pregnancy.

Edited November 2, 2015 by MostlyC
tagged for spoilers

[Rumsy4]

Every time you think it can't get any worse, it inevitably does

ETA: The only reason they brought Belle back was likely to keep the option of writing-in Emilie's real life pregnancy into the story. Ugh...

Edited December 7, 2015 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

Now I need to get to my fanfiction of what happens in Storybrooke while the Nevengers are in the Underworld.

 

Blue: "Belle? I thought you left town."

Belle: "We have to find a way to drain Rumple's power once and for all before he gets back."

Blue: "What do you mean? I thought the darkness was destroyed."
Belle: "It wasn't. I saw him switch Excalibur out with a fake. When he asked me to leave town, I knew something was up."

Edited December 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

Every time I give Belle props she goes and does something dumb like go back to that asswipe.

Emilie must be here for the check at this point right?

[Faemonic]

I am disappointed that ALL the NEVENGERS know what really went down, and they're leveraging that against Gold to open a portal to the Underworld...And Henry's joining their field trip? Henry, who is maybe almost 13. So, basically . . . Belle is more infantalized than Henry Jr.

 

I know, I know, De Ravin should have her maternity leave. Couldn't they have written her out better, though? Let her do all the wandering the world that she said she was going to do! Let her do all the protecting of her heart that she said she'd do! That is still way more dignified than what happened in 511. Let Emma (and Regina, she can weigh in) pledge to Light Magic all of Rumple if they didn't do the thing, instead of manipulating Belle's ignorance!

[Camera One]

Maybe they want to have Belle find out about Rumple's deception but she's already pregnant.  Which will give Rumple pause about his evil agenda for the time being. Until he needs to do something evil to save the baby.  That should bring us to Season 7.

[Rumsy4]

That is still way more dignified than what happened in 511.

Yeah. It is humiliating to see her the dupe of Rumple's machinations yet again.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Mari]

Emilie must be here for the check at this point right?

It is guaranteed money for a tiny amount of usually not very challenging work and taking naps. Isn't she fairly newly married, too? She gets lots of time to spend with her family, and stability. Staying makes sense.  Dallas and Goodwin reap some of the same family time benefits and stability.

 

 

As for her character--there's been some good points made about how the Storybrooker's didn't tell Belle that Rumple powered up again.  They should tell her--and hopefully they're planning on telling her anyway once they get back--but, would she believe them?  Because I don't know that she would.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Mari

[Sarcastica]

Belle needs to grow a clue, leave Rumple for good and maybe date Archie.

I have no hope for her character. She is the smartest dumb person on the show. 

[YaddaYadda]

I know, I know, De Ravin should have her maternity leave. Couldn't they have written her out better, though? Let her do all the wandering the world that she said she was going to do!

 

They brought Belle back so that Rumple can put her to sleep while he goes off to the UW. They really should've left her out in the real world.

 

At the same time, I really, really question Belle's commitment to wanting to travel, and discover the world. I think it might've been one thing when she was in the EF, but it's a whole different ball game in the Land without Magic. She chose to come back because whatever...

 

Thanks for that, Henry!

[Mari]

Kili had a theory that it wasn't actually Henry who called Belle, it was Rumple impersonating Henry.

 

That makes a lot more sense than Henry stopping in the middle of the crisis to make sure that she knows what's going on with Rumple.

[orza]

It makes sense that it was Henry who called Belle because they were all going to Granny's to spend their remaining time together as a family and Henry considers Belle family. Rumple pushed Belle to leave Storybrook because he really did want her to be have a happy fulfilling life. All the people she had connections to were doomed so there would be nothing left for her in Storybrook. He didn't want her to know that he and everyone else were about to die.

[Camera One]

According to the TV Guide interview with Eddy, he said Rumple never thought he would see Belle again.  So it probably was Henry who called Belle, as ridiculous and unlikely that is.

[Rumsy4]

I'm still wondering why the writers had Belle "take a break" from Rumple, and then change her mind? Why not have Belle get back with Rumple as soon as he had proved he was a "hero" now? Wouldn't that have been more logical?

Do the writers envisage that Rumple would not have made a bid to get his powers back if he and Belle were together? I don't think it would have made any difference. Or was it to show us yet again how gullible Belle is? I don't get it.

On the one hand the writers want us to think Belle is so clever because she has book smarts. But practically speaking, she is dumber than a box of hair. For example, her plan to help Merida put both of them in potential danger of execution. Her trust of Rumple despite his constant betrayals of herself is just plain embarrassing at this point. It's just such a sad waste of a character.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm still wondering why the writers had Belle "take a break" from Rumple, and then change her mind? Why not have Belle get back with Rumple as soon as he had proved he was a "hero" now? Wouldn't that have been more logical?

*Belle wakes up, opens flip phone*

Text from Emma: "Rumple lied 2 u again & I blackmailed him 2 take me 2 the UW. BBS."

Belle: "Oh dear. It appears he tricked me again! I guess the best course action is to go for a long walk."

 

I speculated that Belle tricked him into thinking she wants him back, but it's implied they made tacos. 

Edited December 29, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

If they wanted to write in de Ravin's pregnancy into the story, it would have made no difference whether Belle went back to Rumple right away or later. Unless the fact that Rumple was the DO when Belle became pregnant becomes important. Maybe be we should be prepared for Baby Damien to be the master villain of Season 6. 

[KingOfHearts]

It makes me want to see the spinoff series where years later Neal, Pistachio and Chip become the new Home Office of sorts, fighting magical threats that leak into the LWM. The next generation.

Edited December 29, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

According to Eddy, they wanted to show Rumple was genuine in letting Belle leave, so there's that. No doubt another reason was to "surprise" us. We see Rumple being so selfless, but it's a fakeout. Again.

[DigitalCount]

At what point does one stop separating the writing for a character from the character himself or herself? For example, eggnapping is bad writing. Insta-hero Rumple is bad writing. Those don't stay with the characters because it's ludicrous that they happened in the first place. But this seems to just be Belle's character. Is it? Is she really a hypocrite?

[Shanna Marie]

I think the difference is in whether or not it's consistent with the rest of the character. Eggnapping was so out of the blue and out of character that it was difficult to blame the character rather than the writing, and it was so obviously thrown in for a particular plot point that ended up being unnecessary and meaningless. Insta-hero to me is borderline because this show's morality and definition of what it means to be a hero is so wonky that it's hard to tell -- and it turns out that Rumple really wasn't a hero beyond the 30 seconds to draw the sword.

 

But Belle consistently is duped by Rumple or not bothered by his actions unless they directly affect her, and she never sticks to her guns when she gets disgusted with his actions. I'd say that she's pretty consistently inconsistent in holding Rumple to a different standard than she holds other people and saying she values some things (honesty, heroism, adventure) while her actions show that her values are entirely different. It is bad writing because they don't really bother to develop Belle other than as a plot device or emotional trigger for Rumple, and that's where a lot of this behavior comes from, but at the same time, they've been consistent about her behaving this way, so maybe this is what they really want the character to be (even if they seem to have very different ideas about whether this is a good thing or a bad thing -- they seem to think that her behavior means she's a good person because she's so forgiving).

[Amerilla]

At what point does one stop separating the writing for a character from the character himself or herself? For example, eggnapping is bad writing. Insta-hero Rumple is bad writing. Those don't stay with the characters because it's ludicrous that they happened in the first place. But this seems to just be Belle's character. Is it? Is she really a hypocrite?

 

Like all of Once's character over the past three seasons, Belle's actions and reactions are shaped by the needs of the plot, rather than flowing organically out of how a character would act in character. I think it's more noticeable with Belle because she's had less of a central position in the main plot.

 

The writers are clearly not trying to write her as a hypocrite - in interviews and online interactions, it's clear they see her as an honorable character, and that they see her relationship with Rumpel as a true and tragic romance. At the same time, they're forced by their own ineptness to write her in ways that may come across as hypocritical or wrong, simply to move Rumpel's story along. 

[tri4335]

The mistake with Belle was bringing/leaving her to Storybooke. If she was only seen in flashbacks then they wouldn't ruin her character in advancing Rumple's story. She would still be seen as the moral compass and pushing him towards good but when he made the wrong choice it wouldn't be on her. With all the portals and other magical contrivances they could've of easly had her still be alive and Rumple working to get her back. Instead, we have him doing horrible things and she either does nothing about it, goes on and on how he has a "good" heart, only reacts when the wrong is done to her or he's putting her to sleep. 

 

 

"The writers are clearly not trying to write her as a hypocrite - in interviews and online interactions, it's clear they see her as an honorable character, and that they see her relationship with Rumpel as a true and tragic romance. At the same time, they're forced by their own ineptness to write her in ways that may come across as hypocritical or wrong, simply to move Rumpel's story along."

 

I agree so much with the above, they always seem shocked that fans are not enamored with how they are writing Belle.

[Rumsy4]

It is interesting that Belle learns Gaston tortured an ogre and she's all "you're a monster!" and wants nothing to do with him. But she knows Rumple nearly flayed a man alive (repeatedly), beat her father almost to death (since she said her father forgave him, I'm assuming she knows why), murdered his first wife and cut off a man's hand, she watched him beat Hook almost to death and as Lacey watched him beat the Sheriff of Nottingham (almost?) to death (and didn't he rip out his tongue?), and she watched him nearly crush Hook's heart. And goodness knows how many other things she either knows he did or watched him do, and yet he still has a good heart and is worth sticking with.

From the episode thread. I think the issue here is that flaws that normal people have are considered a blot on their character. When they mess up, it's taken as a considerable Fall from morality. But when a hardened villain does one act of kindness, that is taken as a sign of goodness and light.

How can Belle be okay with the fact that Rumple willingly took the Darkness back, in the process made Killian's sacrifice worthless, and then failed to tell her about it? That's right--she pushed Gaston into the Lost Souls River. So she needs to understand that Rumple can occasionally stumble. You know--1 attempted murder/murder per year is okay. She loves the man and the beast.

[KingOfHearts]

Belle knew Gaston and Rumple were both monsters. So why did she choose Rumple? She had magical confirmation Gaston was "evil" too. She was so apprehensive about him, but she fell head over heels for Rumple after watching him torture people and come home with blood-splattered aprons. Perhaps Gaston just wasn't evil enough for her. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[LucidDreamer]

I just have to say that I hate, with the fire of a thousand suns, what the showrunners and writers on OUAT have done to my favorite Disney character.

This incarnation bears no resemblance whatsoever to the original versions of the story, the Disney film, or even other film versions. Not that characters can't be "changed up" in new versions of stories (and I know OUAT is rather a "fractured" fairy tale version) but... the basic essence of the character is missing. The reason I like Belle in an of the other versions is that she is brave and selfless and not a stupid person who requires a prince to save her. Her own actions are what "save" her (and the Beast).  She is an admirable person without being a complete goody-goody.

This version? Pffftt! Goes from bad to worse with each appearance.

I refuse to associate this character with its source material. It's just someone else called Belle to me.

[Curio]

That's kind of how I treat Belle on this show—she's just a random character who happens to share a name with the classic Belle character we all know and love. It's hard for OUAT's Belle to convince me that she actually is an avid reader because her intelligence doesn't match up to someone who has read as much as Belle claims she does. Whenever Belle rushes into a scene carrying a book, I don't really believe that her character likes reading books, it's just a prop meant to convince the audience Belle is supposed to be the smart one, even though she never acts it.

[Shanna Marie]

I wouldn't at all have minded Belle rejecting Gaston for what he did (though it would have helped if we had more context about the ogres, the ogre wars, and what Gaston has been through -- if he's already been fighting against ogres, then that's going to affect him, and we never saw the ogre's eyes). But for her to consider him a monster who didn't live up to the ideal of Her Handsome Hero and then go on to be totally okay with Rumple, it makes her a hypocritical ninny. She only has ground to stand on if her ultimate choice in man is someone who did live up to the ideal she was holding Gaston to, someone more like Charming or Lt. Jones-era Killian. It also sounded like Gaston was actually trying to change and got himself killed for it.

 

Though if all Belle's supposed book smarts were really just her reading her world's version of bodice rippers, that would explain a lot. She's read too many of the sort of books in which the alpha-male jerk is totally changed into a good, kind hero by the magical hoo-ha of the right woman.

 

It's also interesting that she only seems to be able to see a problem with a man when she has a magical device that shows it to her. There's the mirror here, and then there was the gauntlet that told her that Rumple loved the dagger/power most. These are things anyone with eyes and half a brain could have figured out for themselves, but Belle can't see it unless some magical gizmo makes it totally clear.

[KingOfHearts]

Curiously, it's not Belle doing something bad that lowered my opinion of her. It's the hypocrisy of spewing idealistic heroism everywhere then accepting darkness whenever it suits her. She calls out others for being dark, but when she needs to get her hands dirty, she'll do it. She reminds me of 2B Regina with all the flip-flopping.

Edited April 12, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Olivia Y]

I just have to say that I hate, with the fire of a thousand suns, what the showrunners and writers on OUAT have done to my favorite Disney character.

Oh I don't consider them the same character at all, but then again there's very little resemblance between OuaT characters and their Disney counterparts (where there is one). (Obvious exception being Frozen)

 

This Belle is as similar to Disney's Belle as Rumple is to Disney's Beast. Seriously, the only trait they seem to share is that they're both literate. 

[KingOfHearts]

It's sad that The Box has more personality than Belle. We could have The Box for the rest of the series and I wouldn't feel like I was missing out on anything. It really wouldn't change much. She's usually idly lifeless in her scenes, anyway.

Edited May 21, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Poor Belle. Nobody really cares about her. Because of her association with Rumple, she's more or less used as a pawn by pretty much everyone. Add David to that list with this episode. He knows Belle has willingly separated from her husband. And yet, he lets himself act as errand boy between the estranged couple for his own selfish purposes. Bad form, Dave. 

For the first time in a long time, I'm actually interested in Belle's story this season. I hope she really doesn't go back to Rumple this time, but somehow, I think she inevitably will. 

Edited October 10, 2016 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

I'm interested to see if Damien has any say about it. What if he's Rumple's undoing?

Edited October 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

24 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm interested to see if Damien has any say about it. What if he's Rumple's undoing?

Ooh! The prophecy didn't specify which boy, did it? I don't remember if it specified that the boy who would lead him to his son and the boy who would be his undoing were the same person. The undoing could be his ultimate downfall, or it could be the thing that gets him to finally break with the Darkness.

[tri4335]

Wasn't sure if this was the place for this or if it should be in the Costume thread.

First let me say the EDR looks beautiful and really did an awesome job losing the baby weight in a short period of time.  But I'm trying to figure out what the costume department is trying to say with her wardrobe choices.  And I was curious if anyone knew what Belle's age is suppose to be? In the Costumes and Props page it was noted late summer that the designer went with very eclectic clothes for Belle. She wears a variety of outfits but mainly she looks like a schoolgirl or Mafia Moll.  In this episode she is wearing what I would call a Baby Doll dress (which was very cute and something I wore in my early 20's with combat boots).  Then you compare that to Mr. Gold who is always sharp in a stunning power suit.  Is the wardrobe a nod to the fact that Belle is always over matched and the power dynamic is so off in that relationship?  Is she suppose to represent the innocence needed to bring Gold back from the depths of evil?  Now that she seems to have stopped defending Rumple and is acknowledging his sins, is she done with the Moll look?  Or is it as simple that EDR can wear these types of outfits and look good while doing it?

[Camera One]

Different characters have had Belle Duty this season.  One episode Charming, another episode Hook, another episode Snow.  It's good she's not segregated with Rumple and random guest characters, but at the same time, it feels piecemeal and inconsequential.  Charming was used to give the idea that a bad dad was better than no dad.  Hook's interactions were more to show Hook trying to be better, than about Belle.  And Snow was just there so Belle wasn't talking to the wall.  Can't wait to see who's next.

[KingOfHearts]

Belle wouldn't be having baby problems if she didn't go back to trusting Rumple at the end of 5A. It's not like he raped her or anything. He deceived her into thinking he was a hero, yes, but she knew he wasn't trustworthy. She had just tried to leave town for that very reason. How did she go from "I need to clear my head, you've hurt me too many times" to "let's make up with sex"? I guess she was just too afraid of losing him. But now, because of the mistake of believing him, she's going to have a child with a good chance of them growing up in an unhealthy situation. Her problems are no longer just hers. The consequences are spreading to other individuals. If Belle wants to go around making dumb decisions, that's her choice. But when it starts affecting others, that's when she becomes the problem.

I don't think Belle truly cares about Rumple. It's a selfish love. She's comfortable in the position of "victimized hero". She can still look like she's on the moral high ground by slapping her husband on the wrist every now and again. Sometimes her conscience even lets her look the other way if it doesn't taint her ideal image. If she needs something, she can just dangle the carrot and take advantage of Rumple's power. She baits him as needed, then puts him in the doghouse when she wants to feel better about herself. Rumple may be abusive, but she is toxic. Both of them have mistreated each other. She's not a saint. 

Belle is no longer just stupid, but manipulative as well. Having Rumple as the father just gives her another excuse to keep him in her life. I guarantee you she'll be using the baby as a device for control.

Edited November 26, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I wonder what this writer would think about the "Once" portrayal of Belle:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/beauty-and-the-beast-feminism_us_58338060e4b099512f846aae?

It was interesting how in the original Beauty and the Beast movie, the writer wanted to have Belle putting pins on a map with places she wanted to see in the world, and eventually it became a scene where Belle was baking a cake, and then the writer got a compromise with Belle reading.

What I found the most interesting was the earlier Purdum adaptation of the story which was scrapped (video in the middle of the article).  It was a special feature from the Blu-Ray release, but I've never seen it before.

[Daisy]

I think the thing is - they don't want to admit the truth. As much as it hurts Belle to be "hurt" by Rumple (because he lies and all) - she's attracted to the darkness. You saw it with the Lacy Character. it's in there somewhere. I don't want to be "victim blaming" or anything, - but honestly, if Belle wanted nothing to do with Rumple she'd stop saying things like "if you'd just be courageous we'd be together." etc. 

 

it would do it a bit different to have Belle fully accept the darkness rather than whine at Rumple on one side of her mouth, and give him hope with the other. 

[Rumsy4]

15 minutes ago, Daisy said:

it would do it a bit different to have Belle fully accept the darkness rather than whine at Rumple on one side of her mouth, and give him hope with the other. 

She did the same thing last episode as well. She told Rumple that she's not going to come back to him, and later on tells him that if he accelerates the pregnancy, that would be the point of no-return. She keeps dangling hope in front of him to get him to behave. So, Rumple knows that no matter what, she will always come back to him. He knows that if he even does one good thing, or refrains from one bad thing, she'll forgive him. It's beyond twisted at this point.

Right from the start, Rumple has controlled her. He has magically restrained her several times, put her to sleep, repeatedly deceived her, used her as an alibi for murder, put her in a relationship with him without her will or knowledge, and even terrorized her. And yet he has the audacity to say that he would never hurt her. Just because he hasn't choked her or crushed her heart doesn't make everything else moot. We are now led to believe that once Belle finds out that it was the EQ who accelerated the pregnancy, she's gonna go back to Rumple. And I believe it is true. It's sick.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

She did the same thing last episode as well. She told Rumple that she's not going to come back to him, and later on tells him that if he accelerates the pregnancy, that would be the point of no-return. She keeps dangling hope in front of him to get him to behave. So, Rumple knows that no matter what, she will always come back to him. He knows that if he even does one good thing, or refrains from one bad thing, she'll forgive him. It's beyond twisted at this point.

Right from the start, Rumple has controlled her. He has magically restrained her several times, put her to sleep, repeatedly deceived her, used her as an alibi for murder, put her in a relationship with him without her will or knowledge, and even terrorized her. And yet he has the audacity to say that he would never hurt her. Just because he hasn't choked her or crushed her heart doesn't make everything else moot. We are now led to believe that once Belle finds out that it was the EQ who accelerated the pregnancy, she's gonna ho back to Rumple. And I believe it is true. It's sick.

 

The thing is, I don't even think if Rumple was the one who made Belle insta - pregnant, Belle would find a reason to forgive him. I don't even understand the whole "scissors of destiny" thingy here. Like it's so  "what?!". Like even if someone were to explain it - I'd still not understand it. (though please someone explain it).

My thing is - my sympathy for Belle is so gone - the moment Rumple looked Belle in her face and said I will always, choose Power. And Belle was yup - that's fine, but I can still see he man behind the beast.

again - just accept it, Belle. You get turned on by Rumple's darkness.You don't like when you're kept apart from it (more like with lacy, lacy wanted to see it all, and be a part of it, sort of like a cheerleader) - not so much that Rumple's evil.  
 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

And yet he has the audacity to say that he would never hurt her. 

I legitimately thought Rumple was going to kill her after she took his son away from him. I always imagined that Bae/Gideon had precedence over her. The fact he didn't accelerate the pregnancy was definitely not in character for him. He only has a conscience when the writers are desperate for us to sympathize with him.

[Daisy]

18 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I legitimately thought Rumple was going to kill her after she took his son away from him. I always imagined that Bae/Gideon had precedence over her. The fact he didn't accelerate the pregnancy was definitely not in character for him. He only has a conscience when the writers are desperate for us to sympathize with him.

 

I always felt that way too. in his world - in a matter of importance it was:

Power
Bae (Gideon)
Henry (because of Bae)
Belle.

I thought Belle was toast too, but nothing. And again this is more based on the rando-shears being a thing. what was the worst it could do - Gideon doesn't hate Rumple? Boo?  (and we're only assuming that the baby hates Rumple because Belle at this moment in time does, so basically, Belle is taking orders from her own subconscience)... 

this show makes me tired.