Belle: She loves books

[Zuleikha]

I didn't find Lacey having the inner desires of Belle to be at all believable.  I figured it was a Regina-created persona to get revenge on Rumple.

 

They were all Regina-created persona, but I don't think Lacey was done to get revenge on Rumple but rather to reward him. When Regina triggered Belle's Lacey persona, it was definitely revenge. But if she had decided to release Belle from the mental asylum or if Belle hadn't ended up in the mental asylum in the first place, I think Lacey would have been part of the generally perfect life in Storybrooke that Regina had promised and delivered on for Mr. Gold. We saw how much fun Mr. Gold had terrorizing people with Lacey. She was perfect for him: someone with Belle's beauty who wanted to stand by his side while he terrorized people. It's why I can't buy Rumple's redemption because we've seen that it's never been genuine (although I accepted it in s3 when it seemed like the show wanted to play it as genuine because it was clear Neverland wouldn't make sense otherwise and also, I liked the Neverland story).

 

I don't think Lacey is just Belle without her superego, but I think she accurately reflects that part of Belle's attraction to Rumple is, and always has been, that he's generally a monster. I find it coherent; it just also makes me think Belle is not really a very good person (but then again, she was written to choose a rock over Anna, so maybe the writers are actually aware of Belle's self-centered streak). I think Belle is yet another Storybrooke resident who desperately needs to work with Archie.

[Mari]

In the finale, Belle was told Rumple would be put into stasis, until they could figure out if they could help him.

 

Belle's response?  An angry, indignant "IF?"

 

It was a very interesting reaction. 

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't particularly care for Rumbelle, but I did like their last scene together, and especially Belle's part. She finally voiced what a lot of people have been thinking. He could have had happiness, he had happiness, they were happy together, she loved him, and that was all he should have needed but he let it slip through his fingers. So I'm very happy she got to voice that.

[Amerilla]

I think RC and EdR did - as they almost always do - the best they can with the material they're given. The problem is, it's always the same material.

 

"Who could ever love me?" is a revision of the "nobody can ever love me" speech from Skin Deep, and it's one they have in one form or another every season. (For that matter, "I don't love Will"  is a variation on "I never really cared for Gaston.")

 

Belle has spoken variations of "I knew what I was getting, I wasn't going to pull back" before - but we saw in S2 and S4a that her love is not unconditional (not that it should be). It's a pointless just in terms of this season. I've bought pieces of soft cheese that lasted longer than their "marriage." She didn't seem to know what she was getting about 10 episodes ago, when she booted him across the town line.

 

The only thing even remotely new here is that they now both have "memories" of a happy life and cute little baby that they're obviously never going to have in the real world - a little more never-to-be-explored angst for the woman who has already spent 30+ year locked away, had her memory taken and restored, had her heart taken and restored, whose been shot, beaten, kidnapped, and all the other tiny horrors I'm sure I'm forgetting.. And we're right back into the same cycle of separation-reunion-separation we always get stuck in.

 

I get it - these are profoundly un-creative writers. But even by un-creative writing standards, to be doing the same thing over and over and over for four seasons, that just sucks for everyone - for the actors, for the fans, even for the not-fans who have to sit through it.

[KAOS Agent]

I was thinking about how crappy Rumpel treated Belle when dictating how she was written in the AU. Belle is someone who craves adventure and wants to be a hero and yet, in this story she was written as the perfect little wife and mother (pretty much the ideal Gaston was looking for in the Disney movie version) content to live in their modest home and utterly adoring and unquestioning of her husband. I guess she was written as happy, so it's not like he made her life suck, but way to strip Belle of all her hopes and dreams and make her the embodiment of his perfect mate. It's really quite gross.

[Rumsy4]

I agree--but apparently Belle wasn't too upset. She forgave him the minute he clutched his heart dramatically. I'm back to disliking Belle.

[Shanna Marie]

Belle is someone who craves adventure and wants to be a hero and yet, in this story she was written as the perfect little wife and mother (pretty much the ideal Gaston was looking for in the Disney movie version)

That's the problem with the relationship in general. They've told us and even shown us that Belle craves adventure and wants to be a hero, while Rumple is a cowardly homebody. His first wife left him because she wanted adventure or at least a change of scenery, and he wasn't willing to budge. About the only thing that helps Belle is that she's kind of included in Team Hero, so while she hasn't had a chance to go on any major quests in a while, she does occasionally get included in some of the evil fighting and monster hunting -- that is, when he's not putting her into a magical coma to keep her out of the way.

 

She forgave him the minute he clutched his heart dramatically.

Yeah, they've managed to ruin her again, just when she was starting to show signs of having a spine. First there's acting like it's a romantic gesture that he gives her heart to her boyfriend, and now here she is, all forgiving, in spite of all of his hat-related capers, him deceiving her to get the dagger back, him being responsible for this whole plot to turn Emma dark so he could get what he wanted, and him creating this crazy alternate universe to have the life he wanted at everyone else's expense. Part of me hopes that she gets included in any team heading off to look for Merlin -- something where her book learning would come in handy -- but I'm afraid she'll refuse to leave Rumple's side.

[KingOfHearts]

That's the problem with the relationship in general. They've told us and even shown us that Belle craves adventure and wants to be a hero, while Rumple is a cowardly homebody. His first wife left him because she wanted adventure or at least a change of scenery, and he wasn't willing to budge.

Belle seems to be more in love with the Dark One than Rumple. The sparkly imp could travel wherever he wanted and could tell her about it. She could be the "hero" and stay with him to save her kingdom. That's why EF Rumpbelle works more for me. The show doesn't sugarcoat that Rumple is a monster and it doesn't make Belle out to be an idiot for believing he could change.

[Rumsy4]

I was thinking of how terrible Belle's arc in Season 4 was after watching the deleted scene with her and Rumple. I was astonished all over again at how little the writers know what to do with her! In the span of one season she goes through a lot of convoluted character loops. She turns from being the adoring wife, to ordering her husband with a dagger because of a guilt-complex over Anna. Then she turns back to adoring wife, but upon discovering Rumple's shenanigans behind her back, kicks him out of town (arguably Belle's best scene all season). She then takes up a casual affair with the town depressed drunk, and dumps him the minute she decides to go back to being an adoring wife again. 

 

While it was happening, I didn't feel that the Will/Belle thing was bad. In retrospect, it doesn't makes Belle look good, especially because she dumps him without a moment's qualm a short while later. The writers ought to have kept Belle single in 4B, so she could take some time to get her sh*t together. Instead, they ruined Scarlet Queen for nothing. 

[Amerilla]

While it was happening, I didn't feel that the Will/Belle thing was bad. In retrospect, it doesn't makes Belle look good, especially because she dumps him without a moment's qualm a short while later. The writers ought to have kept Belle single in 4B, so she could take some time to get her sh*t together. Instead, they ruined Scarlet Queen for nothing.

The overall story was so convoluted and the timeline was so compressed, it's sort of hard to see where they were going with it. In retrospect, I think Scarlet Beauty was simply a tool to contrast different aspects of Belle and Rumpel's personalities. In that light, I don't think Belle comes off too badly.

Belle has always been the more resilient of the two, and I think her relationship with Will was a shorthand for that. Both Belle and Rumpel were broken-hearted by the breakup, but it was Rumpel that was sitting around an empty apartment in a ratty bathrobe, eating microwave ramen and planning his next misadventure. Belle was running the shop and the library, helping fix Rumpel's messes and assisting in Operation Mongoose, meeting new people, being a productive member of her society - a woman with her shit fully together. Rumpel surrounded himself with people he was manipulating into doing his bidding - people he hated and who hated him. Belle surrounded herself with people she liked, drawing new people like Will into her orbit by being a genuinely nice person. Rumple's standard reaction to heartbreak and betrayal was to harden himself into "an enemy of love." Belle's heart remained open to new possibilities.

For Rumpel, Scarlet Beauty represented an emotional challenge. Given what we've seen of Rumpel's past, it's pretty easy to imagine him taking Belle's banishment and new relationship as a massive betrayal and reacting with anger and violence. It wouldn't have been surprising for him to stride back into town and straight-up kill both Belle and Will right there on Main Street. That didn't happen - he wasn't angry or violent or confrontational. He kept his distance from Belle (albeit in a disturbing stalker-y way). When he needed the dagger, he didn't go the direct route of ripping out Will's heart and threatening to crush it like a grape if she didn't give up the goods - he went the softer route of taking on the guise of someone she trusted, even though her trust for Hook was painful for him to recognize. A couple of wan threats aside, he didn't really do anything to Will.

Compare his reaction to KillMilah (do they have a shipper name?) and Scarlet Beauty. Milah rejects him and he kills her and maims Hook. Belle rejects him and he returns her heart to her after Regina steals it and steps aside for Will. Even in his last moments, he's encouraging her to get far away from him and be happy with someone else.

I'm not saying this makes him a great guy. Not by a long shot. But in terms of his arc, both within the half-season and over the course of the series, it established that Belle was that last little bit of glowing red humanity in his heart, that her love has indeed changed him. Just not enough to overcome his darkness and weakness, and that is the tragedy of their relationship.

Then she turns back to adoring wife, but upon discovering Rumple's shenanigans behind her back, kicks him out of town (arguably Belle's best scene all season). She then takes up a casual affair with the town depressed drunk, and dumps him the minute she decides to go back to being an adoring wife again.

Taking up with Will does fit Belle's basic pattern. She gravitates towards outcasts and unknowns - Rumpel, Ruby, Robin, Ariel, Neal. Will is a both a newcomer and a fixer-upper.

I don't think the season ended with Belle turning back into an adoring wife. She didn't absolve him of his sins. She was clear that he, and he alone, had blown what could have been their happy life together. There was never any pretense that she loved Will or that she had stopped loving Rumpel, and since Rumpel was (apparently) dying, I'm not sure if her admitting that love and staying with him while he completed that transit qualifies as "dumping" Will.

She undoubtedly will in S5, but we're not supposed to know that yet.

In the very broadest sense, 3B and 4B are the big-picture versions of Rumbelle in 2A. During that first and very compessed arc, Belle was very clear that, however much she might love him, there was a bar. Emotional honesty was rewarded, duplicity was punished (sometimes in the exact same episode). So in the 3A finale/3B, when she's just seen Rumpel be the finest version of himself, sacrificing his life to protect those he loves, she hits the ground in the EF already planning on trying to bring him back. In the 4A finale/4B, when she's realized the depth of his dishonesty, she instantly banishes him "forever" and moves on with her life. As underwritten as she is, she's also been pretty consistent.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Amerilla

[october]

Compare his reaction to KillMilah (do they have a shipper name?)

 

I've seen people use 'Millian'.

[Amerilla]

Ah! That sounds right. I'm swimming in cold medication, so my thinky-brain is a little slow this week.

[Panopticon]

Belle has always been the more resilient of the two, and I think her relationship with Will was a shorthand for that. Both Belle and Rumpel were broken-hearted by the breakup, but it was Rumpel that was sitting around an empty apartment in a ratty bathrobe, eating microwave ramen and planning his next misadventure. Belle was running the shop and the library, helping fix Rumpel's messes and assisting in Operation Mongoose, meeting new people, being a productive member of her society - a woman with her shit fully together. Rumpel surrounded himself with people he was manipulating into doing his bidding - people he hated and who hated him. Belle surrounded herself with people she liked, drawing new people like Will into her orbit by being a genuinely nice person. Rumple's standard reaction to heartbreak and betrayal was to harden himself into "an enemy of love." Belle's heart remained open to new possibilities.

 

This is such a nice highlighting of Belle's personality outside her unfortunate habit of enabling her sociopathic husband. I think I mentioned in the Hook thread the other day how much I liked Belle smiling at Hook and Emma's kiss during the 4B opening montage. She had her heart broken hard and was still in the process of cleaning up the resulting mess, but she didn't have any problem being happy for the man who repeatedly tried to kill her to get to her ex. That's some serious emotional generosity and capacity for forgiveness there. 

 

Compare his reaction to KillMilah (do they have a shipper name?)

 

 

Rumpelstiltskin wants it known that while Millian is more popular, he likes your idea better.

[Amerilla]

Rumpelstiltskin wants it known that while Millian is more popular, he likes your idea better

 

Oh my God. I wish I could say I was trying to be clever, but I honesly didn't see what I did there!

[Camera One]

Unfortunately, the friend who I watched "Once" with didn't think very well of Belle in the 4B romantic triangle.  I can't blame Belle for moving on, but Belle/Will was so unnecessary.  As others have suggested, why not just extend the Belle/Hook friendship that they began in the 4B premiere?  Not that Belle/Will got any setup, but even that was a waste of time.  Heck, even some Belle/Robin screentime might have been more meaningful than Will/Robin.  Drag Henry away from Regina and putting him with Belle for more episodes could have removed the repetition from 4A.

 

Why do they feel the need to saddle Belle with a love interest when she could be a perfectly interesting character on her own?  I'm glad they cared enough to allot her a centric, but I thought that episode was also damaging to her character, in more ways than one.  Beyond having her lie for half a season that she didn't know Anna, it changes the idea that Belle went to Rumple's mansion knowing nothing about him and then seeing his inner humanity.  But it's 4B, so surprise surprise, Belle knew from Anna how bad Rumple was, and still developed a soft spot for him?  These writers just never fail to cut down the heroes any chance they get.  We could have seen Belle figuring out herself what Rumple was doing, but all the writers care about are the dramatic reveals like Belle showing up in the clocktower in the finale, who knows how.   And don't get me started with how that flashback's big "mystery" was what happened to Belle's "let's go back into the castle to save some books from an ogre" mother when a two-year-old could have figured it out, and then throw up their hands that there are too many characters and not enough time.

 

The whole Regina-takes-Belle's-heart with the "twist" that Belle didn't know what Regina did despite the earlier episode where Belle seemed determined to help Regina to find Rumple convolution...  what was the point?  So Maleficent could stupidly let Rumple/Will get the heart back?  Which opens a whole new can of worms which asks why the fearsome Queen of Darkness Maleficent stands around doing nothing whenever someone steals something from her.  The writers create dumb crap that they could resolve with even dumber crap the following episode while skipping anything that can remotely be described as character development.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

There was also the whole part in the 4B premiere where Belle was clearly swimming in guilt about how her denial had led to her friends' imprisonment in the hat, Emma almost being stuck there too and Hook's near death and torture under Rumpel. We know that in her heart Belle knew Rumpel was lying to her. We saw it with Mirror!Belle. Why not pull on that thread a bit rather than some weird rebound relationship that's obviously going nowhere? 

 

If you give Belle a centric about where her need to be a hero comes from, why not develop that further in comparison to how her denial led to some very nasty villainy? Shouldn't she be even more motivated to be heroic now? Instead, we get scenes of her happy with Will and Rumpel looking on all sad. I know it's because Belle's story doesn't really exist outside Rumpel, but damn do they demonstrate that they could not care less about Belle.

[Souris]

Emilie announced on Twitter that she is pregnant: https://twitter.com/emiliederavin/status/650111970406830080

[Amerilla]

That's really great for her and Eric. They seem very happy together.

It does beg the question of what it means for her in 5b. Do they write it in as with Ginny and Snowflake or just put hey under some convenient sleeping curse?

[YaddaYadda]

I think writing the pregnancy in might end up being a messy soap opera who's the daddy. She was in a rebound relationship with Will with I'm assuming everything that that entailed?

 

I know it's not a relationship they've shown on screen, but still, it's not like viewers can forget it happened. It will require them to say that Belle was pregnant, knew she was pregnant by Rumple while in rebounding all over the place with Will. If they write her pregnancy in, she'll be as far along as Zelena is if not further.

 

I'm not a fan of pregnancy storylines. Fix Rumbelle, then give them a baby.

 

I still don't get why they wrote in Ginny's pregnancy. And I still don't get the doubling down on the mess that is Zelena/Robin/Regina. There clearly was not enough fuckery going on with that.

Edited October 3, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[orza]

This might be the season that Belle dies a tragic but heroic death. I doubt her pregnancy will be written into the show unless it is to bring Rumple full circle of being a single father and gets a second chance to do right by his child.

 

Emilie said a couple seasons back that she would go back to being blond when she was done with the show and now within the space of a week she went back to being blonde and announced she is pregnant. That does seem auspicious that this could be her last season on the show.

[Souris]

Emilie said a couple seasons back that she would go back to being blond when she was done with the show and now within the space of a week she went back to being blonde and announced she is pregnant. That does seem auspicious that this could be her last season on the show.

 

Is blonde her natural color? If so, that's very likely connected to her pregnancy. She probably didn't want to have to keep up dying her roots over the course of the pregnancy -- a lot of women avoid hair dying during pregnancy. So, go back to her natural color and leave it at that.

[Lieutenant]

I guess there's no time like the present then, to give Belle that vacation to Tijuana (or wherever) Emilie always says she's needing to take at the end of every season.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Lieutenant

[mjgchick]

Belle will probably end up with a sleeping curse until Rumple get's his head out of his ass and true love kiss the crap out of her. lol

[Curio]

This might be the season that Belle dies a tragic but heroic death. I doubt her pregnancy will be written into the show unless it is to bring Rumple full circle of being a single father and gets a second chance to do right by his child.

 

I think a lot of this will depend on whether or not Adam & Eddy can convince Robert to come back for another season. If Robert is still attached to the show in Season 6, then they'll need to do something drastic to his story to make his character still interesting. An easy way to make him relevant is by making him the big bad villain again, and a Belle death would be the perfect catalyst for that. Or they'll go the opposite direction, and if they plan on redeeming Rumple, they could always put Belle under a sleeping curse some time in 5B. Then Emilie could become guest star status in Season 6 and come back for that special episode where Rumple finally lets go of his power and True Love Kisses her awake.

 

It's kind of sad that Belle's entire story circles around what Rumple is going to do.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Curio

[Amerilla]

Anything is possible, but I doubt Emilie's pregnancy signals the end of her run on the show. I think she's there until cancellation. (Admittedly, those two things could coincide, but it's still more likely than not that there will at least be a S6.)

 

She's the steady paycheck in the relationship. Relatively few working actors are going to give up a comfortable, well-paying gig due to something that her employers are going to be perfectly willing to accommodate. She's still one of the show's most enthusiastic boosters on the con circuit, and she's got a pretty healthy fan base. The writers could easily write her pregnancy in, or write around it, depending on how they want the show to go. And, like Ginny, it's pretty likely that her due date is in the spring, meaning she could have her maternity leave over late spring and early summer and come back to work next July.

 

I was actually surprised Belle didn't get pregnant in S4 - it seemed like an obvious set-up with her kicking Rumpel out and then finding out during the six-week jump that their honeymoon break-in had resulted in a baby. Given that Rumpel's origin story is so deeply tied to parenthood and Neal is dead, it's the next logical step in his progression as a character.

[AnotherCastle]

There's also the Disney factor, I don't think they would ever allow the show to kill off one of their princesses (and they were the ones saying no when A&E wanted to kill of Snow White's prince in the Pilot) especially with the BatB anniversary coming up.

[orza]

There's also the Disney factor, I don't think they would ever allow the show to kill off one of their princesses (and they were the ones saying no when A&E wanted to kill of Snow White's prince in the Pilot) especially with the BatB anniversary coming up.

 

That's not how it went down. Disney had nothing to do with the decision. ABC executives voiced their displeasure so Adam and Eddy decided to change it.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s181/once-upon-a-time/news/a432961/once-upon-a-time-prince-charming-originally-killed-in-pilot.html#ixzz3nc7t9uB1

 

The animated Disney moves are targeting a younger audience. The little girls who love all things pink and sparkly and are really into Disney princesses are not watching this show. The characters on this show are not the same as the characters in the Disney kiddy cartoons. The children watching the show are old enough to understand that and from my firsthand experience they are not at all confused that this Belle is not a Disney Princess with a capital P, but just another fairytale character on a show that presents a very different take on fairytales, and that all the little references such as the chipped cup, the dance, etc are just nods to the movie and not a retelling of that story.

Adam and Eddy would do well to use this opportunity to write Belle out of the show. Belle is a millstone around Rumple's neck as far as character development is concerned. It limits what they can do with him if they have to keep the love story going. Rumple is a tragic character so it would in keeping with that to have him lose Belle, too, so that he eventually finds redemption in a heroic death, not in a happy ending with wife and child and perhaps a while picket fence. The Rumbelle scenes have become tiresome mostly because of Emilie's bad acting. One can practically see the thought bubble over Robert Carlyle's head saying "Fuck, do I have to do all the work here?" Emilie's portrayal of Belle as a grown-ass adult behaving like an awkward teenager is irritating, not believable and too close to how she behaves in interviews and other public appearances and pretty much every other role she has ever had for me to buy that she is actually acting and not just being herself with a toned down accent.

[KingOfHearts]

 

There's also the Disney factor, I don't think they would ever allow the show to kill off one of their princesses

Yes. That happened in Into the Woods.

Rapunzel was supposed to be killed off but instead rode off with her prince into the sunset.

However, I believe it has to do more with not breaking up Rumpbelle and angering the shippers. All the writers do is tell them to "have hope" whenever that relationship is on the rocks. I would be shocked if that couple wasn't going to get an HEA together.

 

Spoiler tag for those who haven't seen the movie.

Edited October 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Amerilla]

The Rumbelle scenes have become tiresome mostly because of Emilie's bad acting. One can practically see the thought bubble over Robert Carlyle's head saying "Fuck, do I have to do all the work here?"

 

Objectively speaking,  Robert Carlyle treats Emilie de Ravin with enormous respect both in their scenes and in their public appearances. They both do their best to slog their way jointly though the admittedly shitty and repetitious scenes they are handed and the bad direction and editing that bogs down the entire show. They do their jobs and they earn their paychecks.    

 

It's fine not to like Rumbelle, or Belle, or Emilie as an actress, but it's unfair to project that onto the actors - and unless you are Robert Carlyle posting here under deep cover, you have no idea what thoughts run though his mind, period.

[orza]

Objectively speaking,  Robert Carlyle treats Emilie de Ravin with enormous respect both in their scenes and in their public appearances. They both do their best to slog their way jointly though the admittedly shitty and repetitious scenes they are handed and the bad direction and editing that bogs down the entire show. They do their jobs and they earn their paychecks.    

 

It's fine not to like Rumbelle, or Belle, or Emilie as an actress, but it's unfair to project that onto the actors - and unless you are Robert Carlyle posting here under deep cover, you have no idea what thoughts run though his mind, period.

It's not unfair at all and no different than constantly projecting onto the writers that they "can't be bothered", or "don't care" or "only want to do X", etc. Actors are not a protected class. They carry significant responsibility for the quality of the final product. Bad acting can ruin good writing and kill a scene or a whole show as effectively as bad writing.

 

I always assume that some amount of acting is going on during public appearances over and above the obvious hamming it up on stage at ComicCan and similar events. Outsiders don't know how much or little respect individual actors have for the people they work with and are not in a position to speak objectively about it. It's all just opinion. I form my opinions from what I see on screen, just like everyone else. Robert Carlyle has to carry all their scenes together. It gets old really fast to always have to carry coworkers who can barely do their jobs. I've been in that position more often that I'd like. It has nothing to do with how much one likes them as people.

Edited October 5, 2015 by orza

[Mathius]

I was actually surprised Belle didn't get pregnant in S4 - it seemed like an obvious set-up with her kicking Rumpel out and then finding out during the six-week jump that their honeymoon break-in had resulted in a baby. Given that Rumpel's origin story is so deeply tied to parenthood and Neal is dead, it's the next logical step in his progression as a character.

 

I'll say it again, I really think Belle should bear Rumple a child because it sets up the perfect way for him to go out, for him to sacrifice his life in a necessary fight rather than cop out so that he can raise this new kid like he did in the Ogre Wars with Baelfire.  Because when you get down to it, everything that went wrong for everyone happened in due part because of Rumple's well-intentioned but ultimately stupid mistake to hobble himself and get out of fighting and dying in battle.  Bae probably would have lived a better life (and not died prematurely) under the knowledge and reputation of his father as a hero, rather than the life he actually led with his living, unheroic, deadbeat dad, to say nothing of the lives of everyone else Rumple screwed with in order to "make up" for being a deadbeat.

[mjgchick]

I was hoping Belle would accidentally dropped the jar.

[Geeni]

 

I'll say it again, I really think Belle should bear Rumple a child because it sets up the perfect way for him to go out, for him to sacrifice his life in a necessary fight rather than cop out so that he can raise this new kid like he did in the Ogre Wars with Baelfire.  Because when you get down to it, everything that went wrong for everyone happened in due part because of Rumple's well-intentioned but ultimately stupid mistake to hobble himself and get out of fighting and dying in battle.  Bae probably would have lived a better life (and not died prematurely) under the knowledge and reputation of his father as a hero, rather than the life he actually led with his living, unheroic, deadbeat dad, to say nothing of the lives of everyone else Rumple screwed with in order to "make up" for being a deadbeat.

 

But as with all their scenes/storylines, that would make it about RUMPLE, not even Belle. The show has always made Rumbelle be about Rumple and what HE wants/needs. The last thing either character needs right now is a baby, especially in the state their "relationship" was in S3-4 and arguably this season, never mind how Belle is already a plot device as it is. 

 

 

Bad acting can ruin good writing and kill a scene or a whole show as effectively as bad writing.

 

I agree on that, JMo's usual OTT acting is making this Dark Swan crap unbearable to sit through.

 

 

I always assume that some amount of acting is going on during public appearances over and above the obvious hamming it up on stage at ComicCan and similar events.

 

Yes, all the actors are faking liking each other.

[daxx]

 

Yes, all the actors are faking liking each other.

Not all of them, I know that Colin, Jmo and Sean hang out at games and at Colin's house. Ginnifer and Jmo were friends before the show started.

[Geeni]

 

Not all of them, I know that Colin, Jmo and Sean hang out at games and at Colin's house. Ginnifer and Jmo were friends before the show started.

 

This genuinely made me LOL. I was being sarcastic, because the comment I was replying to was ridiculous. It's quite obvious that everyone in the cast are genuine friends and all like each other.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Geeni

[daxx]

This genuinely made me LOL. I was being sarcastic, because the comment I was replying to was ridiculous. It's quite obvious that everyone in the cast are genuine friends and all like each other.

Sorry missed the sarcasm. We really need a sarcasm font :O

I've seen so many ridiculous statements lately I've just been taking them at face value.

[Shanna Marie]

To somewhat defend the acting here, it's a lot like with Henry where I think the main problem is the writing. With Henry, the problem is that they haven't bothered to actually create a character for an actor to play. With Belle, the character they're writing makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. She's all over the map, very inconsistent with what they show vs. what they tell us about her, and with no real internal integrity. She's supposedly a truly good person who can see into people's hearts, and yet she's been bleating on and on about how good Rumple's heart is while it was actually turning to charcoal because of his evil deeds. She can talk about how good he is while watching him do evil. She's also depicted as valuing heroism and longing for adventure, but she's in a relationship with someone whose primary character trait is cowardice, whose previous marriage failed because he wasn't even willing to move to another village where his wife might be happier. When she seems to grow a spine, she's back to fawning over Rumple five minutes later. Even her look doesn't make any sense, when they dress her like she's taken items from the Slutty Schoolgirl and Slutty Mid-Century British Village Matron Halloween costumes in the Party City catalog. Supposedly, the actress has the kind of dance training that should give her the musculature and balance/grace to walk in heels, but she has that weird baby giraffe awkwardness, which makes some sense as an acting choice, since Belle would be unfamiliar with heels, but Belle running around in six-inch heels makes no sense for her character. If ever there were a woman who'd wear cute, practical flats, it would be Belle. I'm not sure Meryl Streep could play this character convincingly because there's no way to create an inner narrative to hold it all together and find the truth in the character, unless she went dark with her headcanon, decided that while Belle talks a good show about heroism she's actually turned on by the darkness, and added a bunch of subtext to suggest that inner conflict between what she says she wants to be and what she really values.

 

I think Belle's scenes with Hook work largely because for once she's allowed to make sense and show that she's hurt and sad and angry instead of blathering on about how true her and Rumple's love is. In her scenes with him, she comes across as an emotionally abused woman who's struggling to make sense of her relationship.

[Amerilla]

She's supposedly a truly good person who can see into people's hearts, and yet she's been bleating on and on about how good Rumple's heart is while it was actually turning to charcoal because of his evil deeds. She can talk about how good he is while watching him do evil. She's also depicted as valuing heroism and longing for adventure, but she's in a relationship with someone whose primary character trait is cowardice, whose previous marriage failed because he wasn't even willing to move to another village where his wife might be happier. When she seems to grow a spine, she's back to fawning over Rumple five minutes later.

 

Belle fans were admonished yesterday in Unpopular Opinions that they need to just to get over the fact that Hook shot and beat Belle and accept them as sorta-friends because that was just a couple of scenes waaaaay back in S2. I would say the same thing about the Great Bleating Meme.

 

Aside from early S3b, in the context of Rumpel just having sacrificed himself to save those he cared about, Belle really hasn't openly advocated Rumpel as a good/changed/reformed person to anyone since the first third of S2. (Maybe #ItHappenedOffScreen with Moe before the wedding at the end of 3b, maybe it didn't. If it didn't happen #OnScreen, it doesn't count.) She hasn't overtly mentioned him having a good or true heart since that early period. Her alleged ability to see into people hearts was also dropped after early S2. Both in S2 and S4, she stepped in assertively when he was fucking around hurting people, nor did she forgive him his sins in his supposedly dying moments at the end of S4.  

 

Things like her valuing heroism but falling in love with a coward would, in a better-written show, be a source of contrast and relationship-based conflict. Alas, this is not that show. They have instincts of storytellers, but not the skills.

 

Does she talk about her love for him (to him and to others) and try to support him when he's in distress or danger? Does she always end up back with him? Yes. That is what a love interest does. That's always going to be the balance of her role as a character - much the same way post-S2 Hook's role has been to gaze at Emma with that vaguely constipated look that has become Once's default Male Love Gaze and tell her what a swell Savior she is. That's just the sucky downside of being the Supporting Love Interest.

 

The rest of it? Eh. In a show that tends to camp and staginess, every single actor on this show has at least couple of annoying tics and traits honed over the seasons. They tend to amplify over the years because we've seen them so.many.times. But she's hardly alone in that.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Amerilla

[YaddaYadda]

I'm super curious about something regarding Belle, and that's her reaction to Rumple once he finally wakes up from his coma. I know Belle has always said she could see the man behind the beast, but I've always wondered what man that was. I know about the Rumple who loved his son and went to extreme lengths to find his son and reunite with him.

 

The thing is, she will be confronted with a man who has no magic now. She didn't know that person before. I think it will be interesting if they decide not to keep the status quo. And what if Rumple decides that he wants to get the magic back? What happens then? 

[Amerilla]

That would be a great storyline. However, TS;TW...I'm still betting there's a 90% chance that Rumple ends up the Dark One at the end of the Dark Swan interlude, and that Belle and he never interact (or interact minimally) in his non-magical form.

[YaddaYadda]

I doubt Rumple doesn't go back to being the Dark One once more. I'm sure Excalibur will be put together for like 30 seconds and then broken apart again because it's not supposed to be that way.

 

Belle should be allowed a POV with regards to her relationship with Rumple. You can't just toss her back in there. 5x02 is the most screen time Belle has had since 4x11, I think. Even if her POV isn't about wanting to get back with Rumple, it's still fine, because at least, they're allowing her to express it.

[Mari]

That would be a great storyline. However, TS;TW...I'm still betting there's a 90% chance that Rumple ends up the Dark One at the end of the Dark Swan interlude, and that Belle and he never interact (or interact minimally) in his non-magical form.

You're right.  That would be a horrible waste.  So, you're probably spot-on that they'll not have uncursed Rumple and Belle interact much again, if they're planning to reDark One Rumple.  (Which, TS, TW . . .).

 

But, they're always struggling with what to do with her, and this would give them something to do with Rumple, too, that's not floating around and mwhwhwhaing while he plans to cleave himself.  

 

Belle has consistently been a character who's craved adventure, excitement, and a grand purpose.  The impression I've had is that part of her satisfaction with Rumple and their relationship is that he had that dark, dangerous edge.  That being the person that stood between the Dark One and the rest of the world satisfied parts of her.

 

Pre-Dark One Rumple, if that's who they're going to truly revert to, is very different than that man.  He's a homebody, who doesn't crave adventure.  He doesn't like change.  

 

Watching them discover whether or not they can be in love when a good chunk of Rumple is very, very different could be a compelling story, especially if they write in her pregnancy and Rumple and Belle have to figure out this new, completely different relationship while at the same time dealing with something that ended badly for Rumple the last time.

[Shanna Marie]

Belle really hasn't openly advocated Rumpel as a good/changed/reformed person to anyone since the first third of S2.

The problem isn't so much her claiming that he's changed, since he was mostly showing a changed face to her, but that she decided that he had a good heart after seeing him torture someone almost to death. That's a huge cognitive dissonance that would be hard to get around as an actor and would tend to make the portrayal ring false. Could you really look at someone who was flaying a man alive, then healing him so he could flay him again, and claim that this person had a good heart, no matter whether or not he eventually let him go and helped him? Someone who actually had a good heart wouldn't have done the flaying in the first place. Flaying wouldn't even have crossed the mind of someone who really had a good heart.

 

Belle has really suffered from the writers' inability to stop monkeying with the past and their glee in going over the top with their villains. She made sense in "Skin Deep" because he didn't seem that bad to her at that time, and her stance of knowing he had the potential to be better worked. But then they added the Robin Hood flashback and used that as a turning point in her attitude to Rumple. Her "good heart" declaration there and Rumple's portrayal as the "Beast" would have worked if, say, Rumple had merely thrown Robin in the dungeon and taunted him before ultimately caving and letting him go with the wand. That would have borne out the idea that he wasn't as bad as he seemed, that he was all bark and only a little bite, and he was really just using his Dark One power to try to find his son.

 

The other problem with Belle's consistency is that she initially had that "call me when you're not evil" stance, and then he went on to become even more evil, and then she went back to him and didn't seem to be at all bothered by the evil she saw him doing while she was with him. Her 3A attitude of "our love is so true" coming after her Lacey experiences was another one of those things that didn't compute and that would be really hard to act and keep the character straight in your head unless you were giving it some kind of dark headcanon.

 

A lot of the problem with Belle is that they based her characterization on a few random elements from the movie version, taken out of context, and then had her react to Rumple as though he was movie Beast, while making Rumple far worse than movie Beast and making him a true villain. Show Belle makes a lot more sense if you delete Rumple and put in movie Beast. There's a huge disconnect between her attitude and reactions and RumpleBeast.

[Rumsy4]

My main problem with Belle is that she bases Rumple's capacity to change/have a good heart based on the way he treats her. For example, in 4B, Belle acted as though she was afraid of Rumple and even hid behind Will in one scene (which I found very odd). But when she realized that Rumpel wasn't going to punish her, but was returning her heart, it was obvious that she was touched and had changed her mind about him. Nevermind the fact that he made her into his stay-at-home wife while he was off having heroic adventures in the AU. Even the reason she gave for kicking Rumple out of Storybrooke was because she finally realized he had never chosen her over Power. Rumple's redemption all seems to revolve around how he treats Belle.

 

Nobody is 100% evil. Even a mass murderer can be occasionally kind to the people they love. So, it is strange that Belle takes that as a sign of Rumple's redemption, when there are lot more instances of him lying to her and manipulating her, and not treating her as an equal partner in their relationship. 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Mari]

^^^^^

This.  Very much this.

 

And, even the way he treats her is suspect . . . I mean, how many times can you give your wife the magic sleeping roofie before it's an actual abuse issue?  Because I think my threshold on that is in a different place than both Belle's and the shows.

 

Hopefully, all that will not be just quietly handwaved away.

[tri4335]

My original wish was that it was Belle who "died" in Season 3 Episode 15 so that she could live on in flashbacks and not be ruined. Then we could have seen how her relationship changed Rumple and they could have her be his moral compass instead of what we got - Belle either being roofied or spouting how good Rumple's heart was all while he continued to lie to her.  Their relationship would be so much better in flashbacks as opposed to being played out in the current time line because they want Evil Rumple and not good Rumple, which means we are stuck with dumb Belle, who can't be reconciled with honest, heroic, adventurous and having a spine Belle.  I feel she could have gotten if not more at least better quality screentime in flashbacks as opposed to what we did get - yes ER is in the shoe, see she's lying on the bed asleep.

 

I mourn the stories they could have told if Neal had only grabbed Belle's hand and put it on the doorknob of doom....just imagine it "You killed my love" versus "You killed my Mother" and to really explore their relationship and all the baggage it entailed especially if it took a longtime for Rumple to know that Belle was sacrificed.  Eventullay the series could end with Rumple finally being redeemed and freeing Belle from the vault to have their HEA.  But alas, they went another way...

[Mathius]

Belle fans were admonished yesterday in Unpopular Opinions that they need to just to get over the fact that Hook shot and beat Belle and accept their kinda/sorta friendship

Wait, what!? I was directly replying to HOOK fans who were refusing to accept his kinda/sorta friendship with Belle based around stuff BELLE said/did to him (which, come on people, was much lesser than what he said/did to her both before and after) and how annoyed they were with her. Sure, I went on to also bring up the Belle fans who would a similar eternal grudge against Hook based around the events in those episodes, but the people who were actually on that thread who I was directly "admonishing" with my retort were Hook fans, not Belle fans.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Mathius

[Amerilla]

Sorry I misinterpreted you, Mathius. Belle fans off this forum have the exact same complaints as...well, apparently, Hook fans.

[Curio]

Belle fans off this forum have the exact same complaints as...well, apparently, Hook fans.

 

Who knew?

[Mathius]

At this point, I think fans of EVERY character who is not Regina has the same complaints.