Unpopular Opinions: All Alone in Purgatory

[blugirlami21]

I guess that's where we differ which is the beauty of differing opinions. I like to know exactly what I'm watching. It's rare for me to start watching a show without knowing the history of it.

We can agree to disagree of the popularity or lack thereof of a crane centered show. If the backlash wasn't what it currently is it might have worked but it's hard for me to see it take off considering current events and the so very public history of how badly handled this show has been since season two.

[netlyon2]

Sparkling Beth: If it happens, I plan to watch as well.  Because I think while it's being called Sleepy Hollow S4 now,  it would most likely be an "Angel" type spin-off with perhaps Sophie showing up at some point to assist. 

 

My problem with the Angel comparison is that it was a spinoff. Everyone knew that he was leaving Buffy, the show broke them up and had him distance himself. Also different because Angel was not the co-lead on Buffy.

I was (and still am) a huge fan of "Angel" (I confess that I love it much more than "Buffy").  However, I must agree that the comparison to the potential "Adventures of Ichabod" doesn't work for me, for many of the reasons listed.  The biggest reason for me is simply this

 

Angel himself was an Abbie fan and probably would stop watching the show after that finale!  (I'm just saying.)  ;-P

[Crackedmuse]

We can agree to disagree of the popularity or lack thereof of a crane centered show.

----------

Sorry, I'm unable to use the quote feature on the phone.

I didn't address that part of your comment so there's nothing to agree to disagree about re: Crane's popularity to carry a show. But I will say, I don't think that's something that can be judged until a show is on the air. Every actor that has ever had a hit has also had a string of flops. The lead actor is just one of dozens of factors that determine whether a show catches on.

As you mentioned, given the reaction to the finale attempting to launch a show in the Fall would undoubtedly be ill-advised. But next Spring could be a different story. Who knows? I wouldn't even hazard a guess because timing and environment are major factors with the launch of any show over and above who's starring in it.

#Hannibal" was in the top ten of every critic's list, even coming in #1 as the best show of the year in 2014, but couldn't even get Sleepy Hollow's 0.7. It routinely had less than one million viewers. Who knows why they could never grow their audience, but it definitely had nothing to do with the quality of the show.

At the end of the day, it's all a crap shoot.

[jhlipton]

Will I watch S4, should it be renewed?  No; not even the yummy goodness of Tom Mison is enough to get me to subject myself to more of this.

 

Will I be here reading what everyone who is watching writes about S4?  Hell yes I will.

 

This is me (less "goodness of Tom Mison")

[LeeLeePanda]

I don't want the show to get canceled, but for selfish reasons. I'm a huge Pollyanna, and there's this part of me that hopes that tptb see how much they screwed up. I want them to get down on their knees and beg Nicole to come back to fix things. I want to see Ichabbie get a proper goodbye. I don't want the show to end the way it did.

I know the world doesn't work that way, and they think we're just whiny children. So I want the show to come back so they can see the ratings tank. I'm petty. I want them to understand how much of a mess they made.

UO 2: the only person that I truly feel bad for (other than Nicole) is Tom. If they're renewed he's stuck in this shitstorm for at least 15 episodes. Lyndie gets major side eye for dissing Ichabbie and defending the writers. I don't actually care about Niki Reed or Lance Gross. Oh, I guess I feel bad for the girl who plays Sophie. I actually liked her, and felt bad that she got stuck in this mess.

Edited April 12, 2016 by LeeLeePanda

[phoenics]

I don't think it's an unpopular opinion to feel truly bad for Tom.  I think all of us do.

[blugirlami21]

I'm happy that there has been no backlash against TM. I also don't think anyone blames him. I feel like maybe he wants to say something but can't because at the end of the day he's still working for fox.

I wish that the world did work like what Leeleepanda would like it to but the time for that was before season three even started. It's too late for that now. For NB and for true fans of the original show.

[C76]

My unpopular opinion relates to the show's future:

 

A lot of folks have given up, but something inside of me refuses to do so.

 

IF SH is renewed, I firmly believe that there's no way in hell TPTB will be able to get away with not doing some--if not all--of what the fans want. There's a market for SH. The first season's ratings are proof of that. Fans and critics alike have explained ad nauseam what they enjoyed about the show.  Surely there's a studio head who's smart enough to seize the opportunity to take SH and make the most of it.

Edited April 13, 2016 by C76

[Iamsweetdee]

My unpopular opinion relates to the show's future:

 

A lot of folks have given up, but something inside of me refuses to do so.

 

IF SH is renewed, I firmly believe that there's no way in hell TPTB will be able to get away with not doing some--if not all--of what the fans want. There's a market for SH. The first season's ratings are proof of that. Fans and critics alike have explained ad nauseam what they enjoyed about the show.  Surely there's a studio head who's smart enough to seize the opportunity to take SH and make the most of it.

Which iteration of Sleepy Hollow are you referring?  One with Just Crane? Not interested.  Another of my unpopular opinions: Mison is not enough, like at all. 

[HalcyonDays]

I'm happy that there has been no backlash against TM. I also don't think anyone blames him. I feel like maybe he wants to say something but can't because at the end of the day he's still working for fox.

 

Me too. He's always been a class act and always respectful to NB. However, I'm seeing some blame thrown at him elsewhere for no good reason.

 

UO: If it's renewed, I'll watch because I love Mison to death and want to see him on my screen. I may not be as devoted or obsessed with the show as I once was, but as long as it entertains me, I'm good.

[phoenics]

Me too. He's always been a class act and always respectful to NB. However, I'm seeing some blame thrown at him elsewhere for no good reason.

Where? Just curious.

UO: If it's renewed, I'll watch because I love Mison to death and want to see him on my screen. I may not be as devoted or obsessed with the show as I once was, but as long as it entertains me, I'm good.

You're from the UK (like Tom), so you're exempt, lol. You may still watch, :D

[C76]

Which iteration of Sleepy Hollow are you referring?  One with Just Crane? Not interested.  Another of my unpopular opinions: Mison is not enough, like at all. 

 

Nope!

 

I'm just curious, but where'd you get the idea that that's what I meant? I want an Abbie/Crane SH or none at all.

 

When I referred to the "some" vs "all" of what fans want, I've learned that I can survive wonky storytelling--even if just barely. NB and TM's presence have made what I've seen of S2 & 3 tolerable.

 

And I don't think your unpopular opinion is at all unpopular. I've scanned opinions from critics and fans. The people who want to save this show and keep only Crane are definitely in the minority.

[C76]

Where? Just curious.

 

 

I can't speak for HalyconDays, but I've seen at least one person on Twitter share some unkind tweets about TM, as though he had a part in this mess. Something about him having the power to stop what's happened. It took everything in me not to reach out and say,"What is WRONG with you?"

 

Not too long ago I saw a tweet from Orlando referring to TM as a "brother". Clearly the person behind the messages I read has no idea about the cast's rapport. 

[LeeLeePanda]

It's unfortunate that people are throwing blame at Tom. That's why I said he's literally the only person I feel bad for other than Nicole. He's been a class act the entire time, and doesn't deserve any scorn.

[HalcyonDays]

Where? Just curious.

I can't speak for HalyconDays, but I've seen at least one person on Twitter share some unkind tweets about TM, as though he had a part in this mess. Something about him having the power to stop what's happened. It took everything in me not to reach out and say,"What is WRONG with you?"

 

Very vocal/devoted fans on tumblr. phoenics, you know some of those people via tumblr actually (not know know, just occasionally, I've seen your posts reposted on their sites..think of the chat room members re: last years campaign...) 

 

It took a few days, but yeah, they started shifting the blame to TM because he "didn't fight for her". C76's response was my response.

 

You're from the UK (like Tom), so you're exempt, lol. You may still watch, :D

 

I wish. No, sorry. Canadian. I just have a thing for hot British men...and think Mison's an awesome talent so I'm here for him (you guys all know/knew that long ago)...But yeah, that's why my "still gonna watch" is an UO - because most people won't.

[snarktini]

Maybe a better example than a spinoff like Angel would be Charmed after Shannen Doherty left. I didn't think there was any chance they could replace a sister successfully, but they wrote a storyline that worked and even evolved the characters. Unfortunately, based on the last two seasons of SH I don't believe these writers could pull out a similar rabbit. (Setting aside the love and loyalty many viewers have for NB that render any reboot unwatchable.) 

 

I have started freeing myself from shows that were pissing me off -- OUAT, Scandal, Empire, Good Wife, Doctor Who -- not sure yet if SH is on the pile. It really has let me down over the past 2 seasons. And I'm very disappointed Beharie will no longer be part of it (however that came about). But Mison may be enough for me to at least find out what they do next.

[bobbysgurl]

To watch a S4 is like someone gave me theirs ass to kiss in a pubic setting. And, then asked me to do it again because I was so obliging the first and second time. This is just my feelings, and doesn't reflect on anyone else's decision to continue to remain loyal to SH.

I will follow TM because I like the actor, but not on SH. All the uniqueness that TM gave to IC will be dropped in favor of SH's need to make IC "the one true witness".

[HalcyonDays]

To watch a S4 is like someone gave me theirs ass to kiss in a pubic setting.

 

No. It's because some of us actually like the actor, Tom Mison. A rarity, I know (and probably an UO), but some of us do and therefore want him on the screen anywhere.

[phoenics]

I can't speak for HalyconDays, but I've seen at least one person on Twitter share some unkind tweets about TM, as though he had a part in this mess. Something about him having the power to stop what's happened. It took everything in me not to reach out and say,"What is WRONG with you?"

 

Not too long ago I saw a tweet from Orlando referring to TM as a "brother". Clearly the person behind the messages I read has no idea about the cast's rapport.

I'd love a link to that twitter so I can go after this person on twitter for being mean to Tom. It's stupid. He didn't do this and he's friends with NB.

Halcyon Days - who doesn't love a hot british actor?

Yummy.

You guys can pm me the offending tweets. Can't leave Tom out there like that either.

[bobbysgurl]

No. It's because some of us actually like the actor, Tom Mison. A rarity, I know (and probably an UO), but some of us do.

My statement had nothing to with anyone but me. MY FEELINGS ONLY. I did not make this personal.

I get that you adore TM. I get it. I got it from EVERYTHING you have posted since the finale.

[HalcyonDays]

I get that you adore TM. I get it. I got it from EVERYTHING you have posted since the finale.

 

Then you haven't read any of my posts starting since 2013 *wink*

 

UO: There is a very real chance that FOX will renew SH, and that it actually might be (somewhat) successful and turn a profit.

[Sparkling Beth]

No. It's because some of us actually like the actor, Tom Mison. A rarity, I know (and probably an UO), but some of us do and therefore want him on the screen anywhere.

With me, it was the realization that if SH continues, and I know it's on, I will want to watch just to see what happens.  I could pretend otherwise, but I know how I would feel knowing it was happening without me and that Tom was saying lines in that wonderful way of his and I would be missing it. 

 

I hope those who make the decision not to watch won't feel that those of us who do watch are any less loyal to NB, or any less angry at the way she was treated, or any less despairing of how a truly wonderful show fell apart.  I still have all those feelings.  But I also still have feelings for Tom Mison, and for Ichabod Crane, and I want to see where the character goes from here.

[cynic]

I've never seen any indication here that liking Mison is unpopular at all.

I personally love him, but it's not enough to overcome not enjoying the rest of the show.

[bobbysgurl]

Then you haven't read any of my posts starting since 2013 *wink*

 

UO: There is a very real chance that FOX will renew SH, and that it actually might be (somewhat) successful and turn a profit.

I know how you feel about Tom, but you seem to think that you're the only one. I think TM is the sexiest lead on TV.

I don't care if SH gets renewed, because I will not be watching. FOX has given me the finger twice, so yeah.

From where I'm from, there are a couple of sayings: 1) Don't overstay your welcome and 2) Don't go where you're not wanted. It is clear to me that FOX is not interested in me as a viewer, so I'm gone.

I don't know anyone personally on this forum, so there is no personal animosity toward any of you for wanting to continue to watch SH. To each his own, and I mean that sincerely.

This was never about TM vs NB.

[phoenics]

I don't have any problem with people watching next season.  I just know that it would be too painful for me to.

 

I might catch up to see how it all ended once it hit netflix or something, but I won't be watching anymore while it's on the air.  I just cannot get over what they did to NB.  If it was TM and he'd suffered marginalization,etc for 2.5 seasons like NB did, then I'd feel the same way.  

 

It makes me mad that I'm even in this position, but that's life.  I hope the new season is good for those who want to see it continue.

 

Part of why I wouldn't want to see a S4 happen though is because I worry it would be bad for Tom if it failed spectacularly.  If they had started off with just him as the star - it would basically be like the ABC show that got canceled:  Forever.  Folks didn't watch that.  Tom deserves better, imo, than getting a spinoff in place of this show, which already is in the toilet with its ratings.  The launch pad isn't big enough.

Edited April 13, 2016 by phoenics

[HalcyonDays]

I've never seen any indication here that liking Mison is unpopular at all.

know how you feel about Tom, but you seem to think that you're the only one. I think TM is the sexiest lead on TV.

 

It's not that he's unpopular - it's that he's not enough of a draw for a majority of people. I've (and many others) have gone through seasons of The Walking Dead, hating the season, hating the characters or at least HOW they wrote the characters. Some actions/behaviours/storylines too stupid to comprehend. If any one of you have seen the S6 finale (or even the early seasons of TWD), you'll know what I'm talking about (the anger). Yet, six years in, it still has me and I will watch. Live and in anticipation.

 

Same with SH. TM is enough of a draw for me to watch. He is not for many others, but he is for me. Hence the UO.

[phoenics]

I hope the S4 if we get it works for you HD.  :)

[C76]

I'd love a link to that twitter so I can go after this person on twitter for being mean to Tom. It's stupid. He didn't do this and he's friends with NB.

Halcyon Days - who doesn't love a hot british actor?

Yummy.

You guys can pm me the offending tweets. Can't leave Tom out there like that either.

 

*wonders when I'll have time to dig through the SH tweets to find the dirt, 'cause I'm actually interested in seeing some retribution*

[bobbysgurl]

It's not that he's unpopular - it's that he's not enough of a draw for a majority of people. I've (and many others) have gone through seasons of The Walking Dead, hating the season, hating the characters or at least HOW they wrote the characters. Some actions/behaviours/storylines too stupid to comprehend. If any one of you have seen the S6 finale (or even the early seasons of TWD), you'll know what I'm talking about (the anger). Yet, six years in, it still has me and I will watch. Live and in anticipation.

 

Same with SH. TM is enough of a draw for me to watch. He is not for many others, but he is for me. Hence the UO.

I have never seen an episode of TWD, but both my son and my daughter have tried in vain to get me interested. TWD is not my cup of tea, but SH was.

This is STRICTLY me talking about me again. Before S1 started, I didn't know who TM was, but I love him now. Had FOX done to him what was done to NB, I would react the same. I'm a bitch that way.

I'm not going to hate on TM because he's staying and NB is not. By the same token, I'm not going to hate on NB because she is going and TM is not. I love them both, but FOX can eat shit and die.

I, a WOC, cannot in all good conscience remain a loyal viewer to a network that does not give a freaking iota about me and mine.

[Julia]

If they were showing Mr. Crane Goes to Washington on the wall of Plato's cave, and it was the show it could be, I would watch it. Since the people who wrote this season appear to believe they would be writing season 4, I'm pretty sure that's not the show they're going to make.

 

I'm already embarassed to have taken a chance on season 3, so I'm really not feeling them continuing what they've been doing into season 4.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Julia

[Blackhoney]

My unpopular opinion, which probably isn’t very unpopular, is that I don’t care what happens to the show as far as renewal goes. I stopped caring quite a few episodes ago. The only thing that sticks in my craw is the killing of Abbie and reducing the second Witness to a Dr. Who companion-like character.

 

And I have thrown major shade at Tom on Tumblr, particularly after watching his comments at Birmingham Comic Con earlier this year. When asked about the finale, Tom said they end the season on a “high note” and that “I don’t think fans will be disappointed.” Really? Really, you effing jerk? In what alternate universe would fans not to be upset at the killing of Abbie? Ugh! I just can’t. I’m getting mad all over again.

 

Nicole was used. Campbell said the decision to kill Abbie off was made going into season 3 and they first intended to off her in the mid-season finale. We all know why they didn’t. They wanted to use her to keep their ratings from tanking to secure them a fourth season.

 

These fucktards actually said they had taken her character as far as they could and LD Jackson co-signed that decision on Twitter, though he said he was not around for it.

 

Whether the show is canceled or not, it has long been doomed. I loved Ichabod and Abbie, but even I stopped watching earlier in the season. I came back after Kindred Spirits, and then jumped ship again. I heard about Abbie’s death on Twitter because I knew not to watch live.

 

This show was doomed by poor writing and that won’t change in season four. I predict it’ll debut in the fall with Tom and a cast of all new characters. Not even Lyndie will return. I think ratings will be around 1.9 million viewers and a 0.5 demo and continue to fall from there.

 

It won’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell without the two original Witnesses. Abie and Ichabod are Sleepy Hollow. Not Ichabod and a rotating cast of female sidekicks.

[blugirlami21]

Whether Tom/Ichabod is interesting enough or whether the show is good enough really has nothing to do with whether I would watch another season tbh.

It's about how I as a viewer was treated by the showrunners and the writers and the network. Also about how they treat someone who's supposed to be a part of their team. This whole situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth and there just isn't enough Tom Mison to go around to make that go away.

With Charmed they actually created a totally new sister but from how they explained it they want Abbie but in a more acceptable vessel. Which is troubling to say the least.

[Criminey]

I like Tom Mison and I will watch him in any vehicle he ends up in except Sleepy Hollow. For me and maybe for me alone the brand is tainted.

As far as I'm concerned, Tom had nothing to do with what TPTB have done with the show and to Nicole. But Ichabod Crane should relocate somewhere else and the show come up with another name.

IMO, Racism killed this show.

[Blackhoney]

Whether Tom/Ichabod is interesting enough or whether the show is good enough really has nothing to do with whether I would watch another season tbh.

It's about how I as a viewer was treated by the showrunners and the writers and the network. Also about how they treat someone who's supposed to be a part of their team. This whole situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth and there just isn't enough Tom Mison to go around to make that go away.

With Charmed they actually created a totally new sister but from how they explained it they want Abbie but in a more acceptable vessel. Which is troubling to say the least.

Yes, to everything you said. The lies and disrespect are just unforgivable. I still look back at the way the writers, producers and official social media pages baited fans using the Ichabbie relationship, knowing they planned on killing Abbie. This was deliberate. This was to break us down, to destroy us and everything they knew Ichabbie and Abbie meant to fans.

 

And to go even further, HELL TO THE NAW Tom (Ichabod) can’t carry the show alone. Truth is they already tried that. They already tried making it all about Ichabod and sidekicking the second Witness.

 

Nicole’s impact was huge. She appealed to the audience, and to certain people, in a way Ichabod did not and Tom does not. And that’s not to play him down. It’s just to say that Nicole was the unique one amongst the two of them. There are a million Tom Misons and Ichabod Cranes on TV. How many Nicole Beharies and Abbie Mills’ are out there?

 

They underestimated her impact and her appeal. But they will feel it this fall when they try and go at it alone.

[C76]

My unpopular opinion, which probably isn’t very unpopular, is that I don’t care what happens to the show as far as renewal goes. I stopped caring quite a few episodes ago. The only thing that sticks in my craw is the killing of Abbie and reducing the second Witness to a Dr. Who companion-like character.

 

And I have thrown major shade at Tom on Tumblr, particularly after watching his comments at Birmingham Comic Con earlier this year. When asked about the finale, Tom said they end the season on a “high note” and that “I don’t think fans will be disappointed.” Really? Really, you effing jerk? In what alternate universe would fans not to be upset at the killing of Abbie? Ugh! I just can’t. I’m getting mad all over again.

 

Nicole was used. Campbell said the decision to kill Abbie off was made going into season 3 and they first intended to off her in the mid-season finale. We all know why they didn’t. They wanted to use her to keep their ratings from tanking to secure them a fourth season.

 

These fucktards actually said they had taken her character as far as they could and LD Jackson co-signed that decision on Twitter, though he said he was not around for it.

 

Whether the show is canceled or not, it has long been doomed. I loved Ichabod and Abbie, but even I stopped watching earlier in the season. I came back after Kindred Spirits, and then jumped ship again. I heard about Abbie’s death on Twitter because I knew not to watch live.

 

This show was doomed by poor writing and that won’t change in season four. I predict it’ll debut in the fall with Tom and a cast of all new characters. Not even Lyndie will return. I think ratings will be around 1.9 million viewers and a 0.5 demo and continue to fall from there.

 

It won’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell without the two original Witnesses. Abie and Ichabod are Sleepy Hollow. Not Ichabod and a rotating cast of female sidekicks.

 

Lord help me. I'm about to defend those words but...

 

I can't help but wonder: Did Tom say that of his own volition, or because TPTB wanted him to? I wouldn't put it past them. Here, I'm thinking of an old situation involving Rosie Perez that marked her exit from The View.

Edited April 13, 2016 by C76

[phoenics]

And I have thrown major shade at Tom on Tumblr, particularly after watching his comments at Birmingham Comic Con earlier this year. When asked about the finale, Tom said they end the season on a “high note” and that “I don’t think fans will be disappointed.” Really? Really, you effing jerk? In what alternate universe would fans not to be upset at the killing of Abbie? Ugh! I just can’t. I’m getting mad all over again.

I didn't know Tom said this. I has a sad... a major major sad... my only hope is that they changed this and he didn't know, but with Abbie dead, how could the season ever go out on a high note?

My feelings are hurt. So if people are reacting to Tom saying this with anger, I am not going to go after them.

I'm just gonna go eat and feed my feelings. I need ice cream. And pie.

Edited April 13, 2016 by phoenics

[GHScorpiosRule]

Lord help me. I'm about to defend those words but...

 

I can't help but wonder: Did Tom say that of his own volition, or because TPTB wanted him to? Here, I'm thinking of an old situation involving Rosie Perez that  marked her exit from The View. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm inclined to believe that Tom was speaking the party line.  Just like Taraji was defending her departure right before and right after she was fired from POI.  Then later, she revealed what actually happened.  I don't recall any actor or actress, admitting a co-star, themselves getting a raw deal before leaving a show, or while they were still on the show.  That clip in the media thread? of Tom at some conference? And someone said what a snarky shit he was? in a good way! I could see he was being careful about the show this season. He wasn't being overly enthusiastic, but he wasn't saying anything negative, either. And then, the finale happened, and I was like AHA! Now it makes sense.

[C76]

 

 

Yeah, I'm inclined to believe that Tom was speaking the party line.  Just like Taraji was defending her departure right before and right after she was fired from POI.  Then later, she revealed what actually happened.  I don't recall any actor or actress, admitting a co-star, themselves getting a raw deal before leaving a show, or while they were still on the show.  That clip in the media thread? of Tom at some conference? And someone said what a snarky shit he was? in a good way! I could see he was being careful about the show this season. He wasn't being overly enthusiastic, but he wasn't saying anything negative, either. And then, the finale happened, and I was like AHA! Now it makes sense.

 

What clip? I'm trying to find it.

 

If I don't update this post soon with an edit, that means I haven't finished tracking it down.

[archiesmom]

I guess my UO is even though I'm not here to protect anyone or put words in any actors mouth, I hope for the sake of Tom Misons career, they cancel this show. 

 

I've seen the comic con video and he definitely doesn't look like someone who believes what he's saying. It also looked to me like after he said it ends on a high note and we won't be disappointed that he was holding back the bile creeping up in his throat. He couldn't even explain the storylines to the people in the audience. He was like please explain them to me. In fact, he only lit up when discussing his other films.

 

For all the problems this season and last, he really has been the one person to say his character absolutely doesn't work without Nicole. His fans (not here; on other forums and twitter) never really listened though. 

 

He seems creatively frustrated and has since season one. He said he brought ideas to the producers that he and Nicole were keen on but they didn't want to go that way.

 

He also mentioned having great projects he's had to turn down. That doesn't make me think he's happy at all. 

Regarding getting out of contracts, from what I've heard it's extremely difficult and expensive. I don't wish ill will on anyone not wanting to do that.

I don't think Nicole's  been officially let out of her contract either.

 

I just can't watch a show, no matter how much I enjoy an actor, that narratively told me the lead female character is expendable. 

[phoenics]

Damn.

[Yolapukka]

 

I don't recall any actor or actress, admitting a co-star, themselves getting a raw deal before leaving a show, or while they were still on the show.

 

 I can think of a few, but they wound up burning bridges, both with fans and employers and it didn't really matter what happened to be the source of actual shenanigans.  Whatever was going on backstage, both Tom and Nicole comported themselves with absolute professionalism in front of the cameras and I can't recall any instance in which either of them were accurately observed to cast shade on one another. 

 

My unpopular opinion is I don't think it means anything about either of them if they aren't friends anymore, given the circumstances under which they ceased working together. I hope they still are, but that is between them.

[C76]

archiesmom i was puzzled by your first sentence, but your argument left me feeling like TPTB have done nothing but waste NB and TM's time.

[archiesmom]

archiesmom i was puzzled by your first sentence, but your argument left me feeling like TPTB have done nothing but waste NB and TM's time.

 

I guess I meant I'm not speaking for Tom Mison. Just giving my perspective of things I've noticed. It is a little clunky. Sorry.

[catrox14]

 

And I have thrown major shade at Tom on Tumblr, particularly after watching his comments at Birmingham Comic Con earlier this year. When asked about the finale, Tom said they end the season on a “high note” and that “I don’t think fans will be disappointed.” Really? Really, you effing jerk? In what alternate universe would fans not to be upset at the killing of Abbie? Ugh! I just can’t. I’m getting mad all over again

 

When did he give those remarks? Was that before or after they filmed the finale?

[Three]

When did he give those remarks? Was that before or after they filmed the finale?

 

 

It's this one. Right near the end. Now, in the light of all we know, I don't know what to think. 

ETA: This was March 2016 after filming had finished.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Three

[Three]

There was this and another one from the Birmingham UK comic con. They were of two separate sessions. The other one (geektown) has appalling sound, but looking at it just then, not one question out of all the questions was about Abbie. I wouldn't have thought anything of it three weeks ago, but now it feels telling. Curated questions? Instructions not to ask about Ichabod/Abbie, let alone Ichabbie?

 

Not really an UO, but I'm burnt out about all this now. I think I have reached rock bottom. I was endowing TM with being in NB's corner, but maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. I'll never know. Someone mentioned above their vision for a re-calibrated SH which went back to the best the show was, I have given up my last hope that is going to happen.

 

Me? Even though I was a little more chill about S4 before, now my thoughts are I've been jerked around enough and I'm not going to let them jerk me around anymore. TM is very attractive, and charming, but he has been tainted for me like someone else said above. And if in a new season, they did a Katrina to Abbie where they basically pretended she didn't exist as anything other than a side note, I don't-  sigh.

 

All these "someone saids" above... I'm sorry original thinkers that I haven't hunted out your quotes. I'm tired and flat. Please claim your ideas. Hopefully I thumbed up what you said. Really enjoy the commentary this forum. Bless you all.

 

The fans have been treated with complete contempt. Used with no reciprocity at all. Screw them.

[C76]

I guess I meant I'm not speaking for Tom Mison. Just giving my perspective of things I've noticed. It is a little clunky. Sorry.

 

"Clunky"? Nah. You've got nothing to be sorry for. 

 

I was referring to your comment,"I hope for the sake of Tom Mison's career..." I thought,"Say what...?"

 

But as soon as you started to explain, I got it! ;)

 

ETA: Thanks for posting that video, Three. I'll see it in full soon enough. For now, I skipped to where there was about 4 mins left. It was nice to hear TM talk about another project. 

 

"If there is no Season 4, it's quite a high note to end on."

 

Mmm. In that context, the finale might not upset me as much. I'm still processing his words. The witnesses have said their goodbyes. Although they didn't kiss, it seemed sweet enough. If there's no S4 then it's ok...I guess.* 

 

 

But if there IS a S4, then it was just a plain old shitty thing to do to Abbie/NB.

 

*Can y'all tell that I'm lying to myself? I'm still not happy.

Edited April 14, 2016 by C76

[GHScorpiosRule]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUtc_94Cge0

It's this one. Right near the end. Now, in the light of all we know, I don't know what to think.

ETA: This was March 2016 after filming had finished.

Sorry, my bad. This was the clip I was referring to, but I only had time to watch the first ten minutes or so.

And D'OH! You're right, yuggapukka- I forgot about that fucking Diva Margulies.

Still. I'm not going to throw shade at Tom. When I compare it with everything else-he and Nicole really seemed like good friends, joking and being so cute. I've watched other shows when I know the actors whose characters have been shit upon stay professional and just toe the party line at these cons. Even when I know what they're saying is bullshit. Tom Mison hasn't acted in any way to make me think he's anything like Margulies, so until I see proof of him shit talking about Nicole, I still believe he's a gentleman.

[Three]

Still. I'm not going to throw shade at Tom.

 

I know you probably realize this but I am not throwing any shade at Tom whatsoever. He seems like a sweetheart.  I'm just giving up speculating because I'll never really know. And all I know about either of the actors is a few snippets from the web. But I wish them both only happiness and good things always.

[catrox14]

Yeah, I think questions asked at cons are tricky. He couldn't really say, well they killed off my partner blah blah blah. I do think from a certain aspect the good bye between Abbie and Ichabod itself was beautiful short of a kiss. I feel like Mison is in the worst position non-Abbie division. Because we KNOW how much he loved working with Nicole. He loved the Ichabod Abbie dynamic, he can't say too much...he can't say too little. He can't say much of anything when the end is what it was. 

 

I'll be much more curious about what he says when all is said and done.