TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[VCRTracking]

I'm now imagining an update of the great 90s TV documentary "When the Lion Roared" with Sir Patrick Stewart's narration talking about Jeff Bezos and "Shark Tank" in the same tone!

Edited May 28, 2021 by VCRTracking

[Rinaldo]

19 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

My understanding is that some MGM titles were sold decades ago to Ted Turner, which then ended up with Warner Brothers. I am not sure where the split is, but I think it's sometime in the 1960s. Everything MGM made before 196x is part of Warner Bros, and everything MGM made after 196x is now owned by Amazon.  

I don't have any special information, but this sort of history seems to be common, and highly confusing, for many of the corporate names. The entities now called Warner and Paramount don't necessarily have access to the historic back catalog of the studios with those names.

[benteen]

I've read that the MGM library pre-1948 belongs to Warner.  

[bmoore4026]

Today was campy movie day and I missed it :/

[Rinaldo]

10 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Today was campy movie day and I missed it :/

Sitting on my DVR right now are copies of Queen of Outer Space, with Zsa Zsa's unique inflections, and The Prodigal, with the sort of cast only the 1950s could throw at a Bible-adjacent flick, headed by Lana Turner and Edmund Purdom. I'm drooling to get to them.

[Miss Anne Thrope]

56 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Today was campy movie day and I missed it :/

I didn't look at the whole month's schedule, but it looks like campy movies might be a sub-feature for June.  High School Hellcats, anyone?

https://www.tcm.com/schedule-monthly?icid=mainnav7-month-schedule

[Milburn Stone]

On 5/28/2021 at 12:16 PM, Rinaldo said:

I don't have any special information, but this sort of history seems to be common, and highly confusing, for many of the corporate names. The entities now called Warner and Paramount don't necessarily have access to the historic back catalog of the studios with those names.

The suits might not even know what's in the back catalogs they do own.

[bmoore4026]

On 6/1/2021 at 9:17 PM, Miss Anne Thrope said:

I didn't look at the whole month's schedule, but it looks like campy movies might be a sub-feature for June.  High School Hellcats, anyone?

https://www.tcm.com/schedule-monthly?icid=mainnav7-month-schedule

True.  We had some campy movies with an ocean theme today, two of which were on MST3K - Tormented and Bloodlust.

Now I like Tormented.  It's a decent movie with a pretty good premise.  Yes, there are some cheesy effects and I still can't wrap my head around a blind housekeeper, but those aren't deal breakers for me.  The little girl steals the show.  I love the wedding scene after the girl found out the song writer killed his ex-girlfriend and is just death glaring at him the whole time.  She was a pretty good actress.

Bloodlust kind of irritates me, largely because Robert Reed and the kick ass judo woman get stuck with a couple of loads, one of which wanted to go to the man hunting island because she wanted to have a damn clam bake!  The movie is over all boring but judo woman flipping one of evil hunter dude's minions into a vat of acid was awesome.  Also, Robert Reed's intensely tight shirt is a sight to behold.

[Sarah 103]

I am so excited that TCM is showing The Long Hot Summer. I was shocked to find it was not based on something by Tennessee Williams. It's set in the south, there's father issues, and it has Paul Newman in it (He was in Sweet Bird of Youth, and Cat On a Hot Tin Roof).  Also, I realize this boarders on tasteless and is the definition of the shallow end of the pool, but Paul Newman clutching the pillow is one of the highlights of the movie for me. I love the way he enjoys making her crazy. 

[Rinaldo]

14 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I am so excited that TCM is showing The Long Hot Summer. I was shocked to find it was not based on something by Tennessee Williams. 

It's easy to hazily think that it was, isn't it? It has that feel. Indeed Wikipedia states that some elements were "inspired" by Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, on what authority I have no idea. But the official source is some Faulkner stories, mashed up.

I'd say that young Paul Newman is one of the lasting pleasures of movies, and there's no reason not to say so. He was also what young Tom Hanks was in the 1990s -- movie studios' answer to the question "How do we make this character likable?" (Think Hud, Slap Shot.) Cast him! Audiences love him, and as a bonus he can act!

[Inquisitionist]

On 6/2/2021 at 7:25 PM, Milburn Stone said:

The suits might not even know what's in the back catalogs they do own.

I've read that this is why some movies (such as Silkwood, a favorite of mine) are not available for streaming -- it's not clear who owns the rights.

On 6/3/2021 at 9:55 PM, Sarah 103 said:

I realize this boarders on tasteless and is the definition of the shallow end of the pool, but Paul Newman clutching the pillow is one of the highlights of the movie for me. I love the way he enjoys making her crazy. 

Happy to join you in the shallow end.  I had that scene saved on my DVR for years!  What can I say?  I love a nice torso.  🤤  (See also Stuart Wilson as Ferdinand Lopez in The Pallisers.  Hoo-boy!)

[Charlie Baker]

I'll add to the Paul Newman admiration.  After The Long Hot Summer, TCM showed Paris Blues, which is a movie that has grown on me,  and is great to look at, and not only because PN and the three other leads (Sidney Poitier, Joanne Woodward, and Diahann Carroll) are simply gorgeous. 

It was nice to stumble on to last night's tribute to Florence Rice, whom I knew mainly from playing Myrna Loy's sister in Double Wedding (which was part of the tribute).  She was a busy actress in the 30s and 40s, didn't achieve stardom, and simply left the business.  She doesn't make a huge impression in Double Wedding--of course not easy to do opposite Loy and Powell--but she's pretty delightful and sharp in the two light comedies I watched, Fast Company with Melvyn Douglas and Married Before Breakfast with Robert Young.  Fun.

[Milburn Stone]

Even when Paul Newman was in roles that were stupid and/or beyond salvation, they did nothing to impede his career. Probably because it was clear enough that no actor could have done any better.

[VCRTracking]

Even THE SILVER CHALICE, his first movie which Newman thought was so bad he put out a newspaper ad apologizing for it the day before it aired on TV is interesting on an aesthetic level. 

 

 

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Even THE SILVER CHALICE, his first movie which Newman thought was so bad he put out a newspaper ad apologizing for it the day before it aired on TV is interesting on an aesthetic level. 

 

 

The only scene in that trailer that was remotely convincing was the one between Newman and Pier Angeli.

[EtheltoTillie]

Wow that could be an outtake from the Coen Brothers’ Hail Caesar!  And I love Hail Caesar!  

Edited June 12, 2021 by GussieK

[EtheltoTillie]

I’m checking out some of the Cyd Charisse movies. Next up, Party Girl, directed by Nicolas Ray, of all people. 

On 6/10/2021 at 1:28 PM, Milburn Stone said:

Even when Paul Newman was in roles that were stupid and/or beyond salvation, they did nothing to impede his career. Probably because it was clear enough that no actor could have done any better.

Also he was so gorgeous. 

[VCRTracking]

Here's a great Newman story from a recent Graham Norton Show:

 

 

[Charlie Baker]

I don't consult the monthly schedules.  I have the channel on a lot and check daily listings.  I don't know why I didn't see any on-air promos for the guest presenter Jon M. Chu's appearance last night. (Could we forego, say, one or two of the many Wine Club plugs, perhaps, and promote something like this, TCM?)  Anyway, should someone not know, JMC is the director of the new film of Lin-Manuel Miranda's first Broadway success In the Heights, and because of the corporate synergy with Warner Media/HBO Max (where the movie is streaming for a month) he was on TCM to promote it.  His selections were three vintage MGM musicals, Esther Williams's Million Dollar Mermaid, Royal Wedding, and Meet Me In St. Louis, movies he said were among his favorites and which influenced him.  His remarks and Dave Karger's questions and comments and some behind-the-scenes glimpses of ITH weren't earthshaking, but were nice to witness.

[EtheltoTillie]

3 hours ago, Charlie Baker said:

I don't consult the monthly schedules.  I have the channel on a lot and check daily listings.  I don't know why I didn't see any on-air promos for the guest presenter Jon M. Chu's appearance last night. (Could we forego, say, one or two of the many Wine Club plugs, perhaps, and promote something like this, TCM?)  Anyway, should someone not know, JMC is the director of the new film of Lin-Manuel Miranda's first Broadway success In the Heights, and because of the corporate synergy with Warner Media/HBO Max (where the movie is streaming for a month) he was on TCM to promote it.  His selections were three vintage MGM musicals, Esther Williams's Million Dollar Mermaid, Royal Wedding, and Meet Me In St. Louis, movies he said were among his favorites and which influenced him.  His remarks and Dave Karger's questions and comments and some behind-the-scenes glimpses of ITH weren't earthshaking, but were nice to witness.

If it’s not too off topic, the In the Heights movie is absolutely wonderful.

[Inquisitionist]

On 6/12/2021 at 2:17 AM, VCRTracking said:

Here's a great Newman story from a recent Graham Norton Show:

OMG, that is terrific!

[benteen]

I was not a fan of The Long, Hot Summer.  It's not a bad movie but it really suffers from complete tonal shifts.  Newman's character is accused to burning down a barn and basically run out of town so you think it's going to be a dark story.  Then it becomes this poorly developed romance with this creepy guy and the daughter, before becoming something of a comedy afterwords.  When I read afterwards that it was based on three different plays/stories, it really explained a lot about the tonal shifts.  The movie did not know what it wanted to be.

[Charlie Baker]

Norman Lloyd tribute tonight, including his TCM Festival appearance, Hitchcock's Saboteur, Chaplin's Limelight, and in the middle of the night, The Southerner, one of the Hollywood movies Jean Renoir made, where Lloyd plays a backwoods yahoo and Zachary Scott is very good in a straight, heroic role as a struggling farmer.

[Milburn Stone]

49 minutes ago, Charlie Baker said:

Norman Lloyd tribute tonight...

I love that he's getting a tribute!!! Someone should write a biography, along the lines of the excellent one written recently about Joan Harrison (with whom he worked behind the scenes for Hitchcock). Oh, the people he knew and the stories his archives could no doubt tell!

[caracas1914]

On 6/4/2021 at 10:10 AM, Rinaldo said:

It's easy to hazily think that it was, isn't it? It has that feel. Indeed Wikipedia states that some elements were "inspired" by Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, on what authority I have no idea. But the official source is some Faulkner stories, mashed up.

This film: Talk about pulling elements from both "Cat on a hot Tin Roof " and " A Streetcar named desire".  It's virtually a Tennessee Williams mishmash.  

Hadn't seen this film in years and yes, Orson Welle's Will Warner is Big Daddy, laughably so.  All they needed was for him to mention  mendacity   The film is almost a parody of bombastic deep voiced Orson Welles roles and it's like he's on the verge of having a stroke in every scene.  Was that darkening makeup on him?

Richard Anderson as the  suitor  who "woos" Joanne Woodward is the prototypical 50's gay man stereotype, dominated by his mother, mouthing vague platitudes of appreciation  for  Woodward,  and ending up being yelled at  as "Sissy boy" by Welles.   We are supposed to believe after 5 years Joanne Woodward portraying an intelligent woman, had absolutely no clue?  

Anthony Franciosa as Jody Varner is a hoot, the emasculated son completely cowed and implied into sexual impotence.   Don't get me started on 33 year old Angela Lansbury portraying Welle's weathered and worldwise long time lover,  (Was Lansbury full grown at birth?)

The revelation is Lee Remick as Eulah, I daresay she out Maggie's  Taylor's role in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof as the sensuous southern Belle married to a "weak" man.  Plus you add the boys in town howling her name at night and voila , the film evokes Blanche Dubois sexual appetites.   However there is Joanne Woodward as the sort of sexually repressed school teacher who the film pointedly has state is not going to rely on strangers for  fulfillment so she's the anti Blanche Blanche, and so forth and so on.

 

[Razzberry]

Speaking of Blanche DuBois, I was watching Streetcar again and suddenly had an epiphany.  When Blanche walks by the poker game and says "Don't get up gentlemen, I'm just passing through" it struck me that Dylan's 'Things Have Changed' has that it the lyrics, and as sung by the fabulous Bettye Levette it could be Blanche's theme song!

  Hard to believe she's 73.

[Rinaldo]

18 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

Don't get me started on 33 year old Angela Lansbury portraying Welle's weathered and worldwise long time lover,  (Was Lansbury full grown at birth?)

She did spend the better part of her film career playing way above her own age, didn't she? 4 years after Long Hot Summer, she memorably played Laurence Harvey's mother in The Manchurian Candidate despite being nearly the same age. When she was cast as the glamorous Mame in the new musical in 1966, many people reacted "But isn't she just ancient??" But in fact she was at that point a svelte, stylish 40, and a revelation after the way she'd been cast in movies.

[Charlie Baker]

I did not expect to get into the Juvenile Delinquency Spotlight movies as much as I have.  Of course they would include Blackboard Jungle and To Sir With Love.  But then there was stuff like High School Confidential, High School Hellcats, and the ultimate Untamed Youth,  below B-movies level and entertaining as such.  Then there were last night's The Young Savages and Crime in the Streets, now obscure, well-made, well-intentioned, occasionally heavy-handed and/or over-simplified, but compelling and affecting. 

Crime in the Streets especially--it has a certain theatricality, excellent direction from Don Siegel on a limited budget and a grimly impressive street set, and a cast who uniformly aim for the gut.  Who cares if John Cassavetes is too old to play 18? He's riveting.  He's matched by future director Mark Rydell and heartbreaker Sal Mineo as his cronies; the always reliable James Whitmore as a social worker; Will Kuluva as Mineo's at-a-loss father; ubiquitous character actor Virginia Gregg (You might not know her name, but you've seen her in something) as Cassavetes' mother, a role Ben termed maybe the role of her career, with which I agree; and a remarkable child actor, Peter Votrian as Cassavetes' sensitive kid brother. 

I apologize if I went on too long, glad to have this forum on which to do it. And these movies, as I said, surprised me by sticking with me as they have. 

[EtheltoTillie]

2 hours ago, Charlie Baker said:

I did not expect to get into the Juvenile Delinquency Spotlight movies as much as I have.  Of course they would include Blackboard Jungle and To Sir With Love.  But then there was stuff like High School Confidential, High School Hellcats, and the ultimate Untamed Youth,  below B-movies level and entertaining as such.  Then there were last night's The Young Savages and Crime in the Streets, now obscure, well-made, well-intentioned, occasionally heavy-handed and/or over-simplified, but compelling and affecting. 

Crime in the Streets especially--it has a certain theatricality, excellent direction from Don Siegel on a limited budget and a grimly impressive street set, and a cast who uniformly aim for the gut.  Who cares if John Cassavetes is too old to play 18? He's riveting.  He's matched by future director Mark Rydell and heartbreaker Sal Mineo as his cronies; the always reliable James Whitmore as a social worker; Will Kuluva as Mineo's at-a-loss father; ubiquitous character actor Virginia Gregg (You might not know her name, but you've seen her in something) as Cassavetes' mother, a role Ben termed maybe the role of her career, with which I agree; and a remarkable child actor, Peter Votrian as Cassavetes' sensitive kid brother. 

I apologize if I went on too long, glad to have this forum on which to do it. And these movies, as I said, surprised me by sticking with me as they have. 

So glad someone else noticed. I was just coming here to post. I watched a bunch of these last night and some of them ran together with the typecasting of the JDs, but I found them interesting and enjoyable. 

[Rinaldo]

On Friday TCM is showing The Thief Who Came To Dinner from 1973. As far as I can tell, this isn't linked to any of their Pride Month themes, nor indeed does it have any definite LGBTQ+ content. But if anyone here happens to watch it, I would love to hear if anyone else shares my impression that this is one of the gayest movies Hollywood ever created. That's how it seemed to me at least, when it was new and I was newly out of the closet. I had never, and still haven't, seen another commercial movie that so blatantly paraded its leading man as an object of desire to all sexes. (Maybe Zac Efron has been used this way? I don't keep up with his movies.) 

Even with the glamorous Jacqueline Bisset at his side, Ryan O'Neal is the one whom the camera feasts on, as he figuratively seduces the men in the cast. He defeats Austin Pendleton at chess, winning his admiration. He has a very weird and enigmatic wink-wink exchange with a teenage boy at a party. And he positively preens in front of Warren Oates, the investigator who wants to expose him as a jewel thief: he first welcomes Oates warmly into his house while half-dressed, twinkling at him, seeming to promise him a special friendship; then he greets him in a later scene while bathing, showing him (but not us) his body while asking for a towel. Ultimately Oates is dazzled enough (smitten enough?) to let O'Neal go.

But I never see it discussed in this respect. That's why I'd appreciate someone else's reaction.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Rinaldo

[Sarah 103]

On 6/11/2021 at 8:25 PM, GussieK said:

Also he was so gorgeous. 

Paul Newman was absolutely gorgeous. His physique as a young man was fantastic. His eyes at any age were pentrating and intense, and such a distinct shade of blue. Getting out of the shallow end, he should have won the Academy Award for Best Actor for The Hustler and/or Cool Hand Luke. He gave amazing performances in both movies. 

On 6/17/2021 at 11:57 AM, caracas1914 said:

Richard Anderson as the  suitor  who "woos" Joanne Woodward is the prototypical 50's gay man stereotype, dominated by his mother, mouthing vague platitudes of appreciation  for  Woodward,  and ending up being yelled at  as "Sissy boy" by Welles.   We are supposed to believe after 5 years Joanne Woodward portraying an intelligent woman, had absolutely no clue?  

The first time I saw the movie, I totally missed the gay stereotypes. I thought the contrast between Alan (Richard Anderson) and the Varners was supposed to represent the old agricultural south with the new industrial south. I didn't pick up on the gay stereotypes until the second viewing, and felt really stupid for not picking up on them before, because it was so obvious. Especially the line "But if you're saving it all for him honey, you've got your account in the wrong bank." (I looked up the quote on imdb). This is another element that makes it feel like it should be based on Tennesse Williams, because homosexuality was often a theme/element in his plays. 

To answer your question about Clara: It was the 1950s and almost no one outside of the entertainment industry or major cities had gaydar. She spent most of her life in this small little town, she was pretty sheltered, and she didn't spend much time in cities beyond day trips to go shopping in Memphis. She probably had no idea he was gay.   

[Rinaldo]

9 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

To answer your question about Clara: It was the 1950s and almost no one outside of the entertainment industry or major cities had gaydar.

Indeed (and even within those exceptions, people could fool themselves and see what they wanted to see... cf. the marriages of Liza Minnelli and Donna McKechnie, and those were decades later). All those sitcom tropes of the (often Southern) society lady with a clearly-gay (only she was oblivious) husband had a basis in real life.

[Charlie Baker]

Judy Holliday and Jane Russell were both born June 21, 1921, 100 years ago today.

[caracas1914]

15 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

To answer your question about Clara: It was the 1950s and almost no one outside of the entertainment industry or major cities had gaydar. She spent most of her life in this small little town, she was pretty sheltered, and she didn't spend much time in cities beyond day trips to go shopping in Memphis. She probably had no idea he was gay.   

I hear ya, it's just that for me the film wants to present Clara as an  intelligent, well read and educated woman who is not your stereotypical  naïve waif.  Clara is stuck in her small town as the daughter of an overbearing tycoon  and doesn't quite know how to break free;  she's aware her father wants to simply marry her off and resists that notion.

The film also has her being the aggressor with Richard Anderson, kissing him spontaneously, with hesitancy on his part.  I get Clara may not be worldly wise but the film hammers home they have been courting for FIVE years.   Certainly that isn't typical even in the perceived genteel South of the 50's , early 60's.

[EtheltoTillie]

I recommend that noir fans catch Tension, which was part of the Cyd Charisse Month programming.  

Spoiler

Richard Basehart starts as mild mannered Clark Kent with glasses and becomes unrecognizable when he removes his glasses and becomes a hottie.

 

[Charlie Baker]

@Rinaldo 's points about The Thief Who Came to Dinner are evident in the movie, but it all didn't come across as blatantly to me now as they must have to him on his first viewing.  I suppose there's plenty of potential for a homoerotic undercurrent in stories of male camaraderie or rivalry, like the cat-and-mouse game Oates and O'Neal play in this movie. And of course O'Neal's physical appeal is exploited.  (I suspect Rinaldo is right about Zac Efron, but I haven't seen much of his work.)  Thief is a very 70's movie.  Interesting that it came from Bud Yorkin and Norman Lear as their TV success was exploding.  There's a period-trendy Henry Mancini score, and actors like Austin Pendleton, Ned Beatty, and Jill Clayburgh early in their careers.  Walter Hill wrote the script, which is on the pedestrian side, especially coming from him.

The (later) 70's movie that hit me the way Thief hit Rinaldo was Saturday Night Fever, in how it presented its star/leading character and the relationship with his disco cronies. (Including some entirely in character homophobia.) I didn't see the reportedly disastrous Moment by Moment, but I have heard that John Travolta is presented similarly (objectified?) in that one.

[BooksRule]

I missed most of the 'juvenile delinquency' films, but I did record 'High School Hellcats' for later viewing and just watched 'The Young Stranger' (with James Macarthur--in his first role! and James Daly and Kim Hunter as his parents).  I can't believe I've never watched this one before, being a big Macarthur fan (even as a young'un back in the days of original 'Hawaii Five-o' I recognized his cuteness). It was okay but a little bland. He wasn't really a bad kid, just a teen who mouthed off a little and no one believed him when he told the truth. Funny, when I saw that Kim Hunter was in it, for some reason I thought she would be his girlfriend, but was surprised to see her as his mother. I guess I thought she was younger (imdb shows that she was 15 years younger than Macarthur). 

Which reminds me, I need to get out my DVD of 'Spencer's Mountain' to re-watch. (and I wish 'The Truth About Spring' was in the TCM rotation. I always had a soft spot for that movie (I'm a Hayley Mills fan as well). 

[meowmommy]

2 hours ago, BooksRule said:

(imdb shows that she was 15 years younger than Macarthur)

Actually, Kim Hunter was 15 years older than James MacArthur.

2 hours ago, BooksRule said:

(even as a young'un back in the days of original 'Hawaii Five-o' I recognized his cuteness)

Agree with you on this one, though.  Hands down Danno was my favorite character on Hawaii-Five-O when I was a young'un in the 60s, too.

[BooksRule]

23 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

Actually, Kim Hunter was 15 years older than James MacArthur.

Oops, that's what I meant. :) 

[Sarah 103]

9 hours ago, Charlie Baker said:

The (later) 70's movie that hit me the way Thief hit Rinaldo was Saturday Night Fever, in how it presented its star/leading character and the relationship with his disco cronies. 

There's some interesting cinematography in Saturday Night Fever. The shots that start at his feet and move up to his face are usually reserved for women. After the first disco night, when he's in bed in the black underwear (briefs that leave little to the imagination), the way he's framed and the way the camera lingers on him isn't the way men are usually filmed. 

[Rinaldo]

17 hours ago, Charlie Baker said:

... the cat-and-mouse game Oates and O'Neal play in this movie. And of course O'Neal's physical appeal is exploited. ...  Walter Hill wrote the script, which is on the pedestrian side, especially coming from him.

...  I didn't see the reportedly disastrous Moment by Moment, but I have heard that John Travolta is presented similarly (objectified?) in that one.

Yes, the exploitation of O'Neal's physical aspects is part of what I meant, and the fact that it's being pushed at Oates as well as us: like a GQ model (barefoot and barechested) in their first encounter, fully naked in a later one, and all their meetings are elements in "winning him over."

The script is a pretty close adaptation of the source novel (which I read), except that the central character is crucially older in the book, someone who's been around long enough to be disillusioned (think Gene Hackman).

I did see Moment by Moment, and I'm afraid it deserves its reputation (not that I wouldn't appreciate it being revisited by TCM just once). As I recall, Travolta is indeed ogled by the camera (and also, disastrously, by Lily Tomlin as she waggles her eyebrows at him from across the hot tub). What's really disconcerting is how they are made to come across as near-identical facially, with exactly the same hair style. I suppose it was an intentional point about androgyny, or something like that.

14 hours ago, BooksRule said:

... a big Macarthur fan (even as a young'un back in the days of original 'Hawaii Five-o' I recognized his cuteness). ...

I noticed it even before that: in Swiss Family Robinson and in a "Play of the Week" in the embryonic days of PBS (Night of the Auk), so early that the announcer felt compelled to add that he was the son of Helen Hayes.

7 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

... The shots that start at his feet and move up to his face are usually reserved for women. After the first disco night, when he's in bed in the black underwear (briefs that leave little to the imagination), the way he's framed and the way the camera lingers on him isn't the way men are usually filmed. 

All very true. I remember noticing that at the time of its first release. It's interesting (and possibly discouraging) that movies haven't progressed, and it still comes across as unusual.

[Luckylyn]

Lily Tomlin has a striking resemblance to Travolta’s sister Ellen.

[caracas1914]

On 6/20/2021 at 12:39 PM, Rinaldo said:

On Friday TCM is showing The Thief Who Came To Dinner from 1973. As far as I can tell, this isn't linked to any of their Pride Month themes, nor indeed does it have any definite LGBTQ+ content. But if anyone here happens to watch it, I would love to hear if anyone else shares my impression that this is one of the gayest movies Hollywood ever created. That's how it seemed to me at least, when it was new and I was newly out of the closet. I had never, and still haven't, seen another commercial movie that so blatantly paraded its leading man as an object of desire to all sexes. (Maybe Zac Efron has been used this way? I don't keep up with his movies.) 

Even with the glamorous Jacqueline Bisset at his side, Ryan O'Neal is the one whom the camera feasts on, as he figuratively seduces the men in the cast. He defeats Austin Pendleton at chess, winning his admiration. He has a very weird and enigmatic wink-wink exchange with a teenage boy at a party. And he positively preens in front of Warren Oates, the investigator who wants to expose him as a jewel thief: he first welcomes Oates warmly into his house while half-dressed, twinkling at him, seeming to promise him a special friendship; then he greets him in a later scene while bathing, showing him (but not us) his body while asking for a towel. Ultimately Oates is dazzled enough (smitten enough?) to let O'Neal go.

But I never see it discussed in this respect. That's why I'd appreciate someone else's reaction.

I can see where the film presents him as the physical focal point.  

The problem with that is that it's hard to get homoerotic vibes or any vibes from the cypher that is Ryan O'Neal.   Even when offered good material or costars (The Paper Moon, What's up Doc, etc) he's at best competent, and there's almost a glaring lack of chemistry with whoever he's matched against, male or female.        

 

[Milburn Stone]

On 6/27/2021 at 4:59 PM, caracas1914 said:

The problem with that is that it's hard to get homoerotic vibes or any vibes from the cypher that is Ryan O'Neal.   

You make me wonder whether Barry Lyndon would have been tolerable with another actor. I never blamed it on O'Neal before, but maybe he was the problem!

[ratgirlagogo]

7 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

You make me wonder whether Barry Lyndon would have been tolerable with another actor. I never blamed it on O'Neal before, but maybe he was the problem!

I always thought Kubrick cast him BECAUSE he was kind of bland and fit the straw-in-the-wind nature of the character.

[Charlie Baker]

Kudos to TCM for showing the Rob Epstein/Jeffrey Friedman documentaries as a Pride month commemoration.  Related to this present discussion,  The Celluloid Closet, as well as examining classic movies' views of gay characters, includes some looks at old Hollywood's approach to homoerotic content.  Like John Ireland and Montgomery Clift comparing their guns in Red River.

I am not a huge fan of Mae West--though she has made me laugh on occasion,  and she gave Cary Grant a big break, I'm not sure how well her films hold up today.  But this linked piece makes a case for her significance.

Mae West Blazed A Trail 

 

 

 

 

[SomeTameGazelle]

I recorded The Courtship of Eddie's Father on Father's Day and just got around to watching it today. It was not at all what I had expected. I was not prepared for the mother's death to have been so recent or that they would show Eddie's trauma so terrifyingly and then not have his father make a conscious effort to try to heal it. 

I did like Dolly playing the drums. 

[MissT]

11 hours ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

I recorded The Courtship of Eddie's Father on Father's Day and just got around to watching it today. It was not at all what I had expected. I was not prepared for the mother's death to have been so recent or that they would show Eddie's trauma so terrifyingly and then not have his father make a conscious effort to try to heal it. 

I did like Dolly playing the drums. 

I've seen the movie a few times and I agree that his father did not help him deal with the loss of his mother.  It seems that he dated rather quickly, but they don't give a time line when she died.  Was it a few months earlier,  a year, two years.   I love Shirley Jones and I Ronnie Howard.  I don't think Glen Ford was the best pick to play Eddie's father.  I think he's a boring actor.

[VCRTracking]

As someone who grew up with Glenn Ford as Pa Kent in SUPERMAN and was particularly affected by his death scene I disagree. I think he's good in Gilda and The Blackboard Jungle.

On 7/1/2021 at 3:19 AM, ratgirlagogo said:

I always thought Kubrick cast him BECAUSE he was kind of bland and fit the straw-in-the-wind nature of the character.

It's the same with the two astronauts in 2001. It's very purposeful. When Kubrick wants someone to EMOTE he'll do it like Jack Nicholson's performance in The Shining.

[SomeTameGazelle]

8 minutes ago, MissT said:

It seems that he dated rather quickly, but they don't give a time line when she died.  Was it a few months earlier,  a year, two years. 

At the start of the movie I formed the impression that the mother's death had been very recent, within days or at most weeks. It appeared that Eddie had been at his aunt's since his mother had gone to the hospital and had only just come home and returned to school. And the milkman has only just suggested reducing the milk order. 

I'm not sure whether they explicitly say it's September but it seems close to the start of the new school year. And although Tom tells Eddie he's not ready to get married again, by New Year's he is dating Rita and by summer he's ready to propose. Even Elizabeth has been divorced for only a year. 

IMO the film would have been better if Tom had been shown to grow emotionally from the cold authoritarian parent. If the tone had been lighter maybe he could have retained some stiffness but Eddie's distress was so great I needed his father to give him a lot more affection.