TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[RubyWoo72]

Well, not absolutely everything. The white drapey robe she put on over her bathing suit was something.

Oooh you're absolutely right. And I caught a glimpse of Connor's friend's shoes as she was headed upstairs. Pretty, glittery things. ::sigh::

[Bastet]

I like Ruth Hussey, period, but I just love her in The Philadelphia Story.  Her delivery of "The little dears" is pitch perfect.

 

I also love young Virginia Weidler as Dinah. Holding your own in that cast is a feat for an adult, let alone a child.  But she's a highlight of the film.

[Milburn Stone]

I never don't love Jack Carson.

[Rick Kitchen]

And of course, Bastet's and my favorite lady plays Muriel.  Ask her about paint colors. 

 

Sigh.

 

[voiceover]

Hepburn got the "Box Office Poison" label for a string of flops, not one in particular.  A number of leading ladies passed that title around.

 

I forgot to put in a word of praise for Ann Harding in Double Harness (William Powell Day).  That script was surprisingly deft, and she was a sassy riot.

[LuciaMia]

It's good that TCM features lesser known actors than the big names, in August. But I had to look up 'John Hodiak,' before I could say, 'Oh, yeah, that guy!'

[jodo]

My dvr is bursting with so many films to watch...films noir are my faves.  so glad I finally found the TCM forum!

[Bastet]

But I had to look up 'John Hodiak,' before I could say, 'Oh, yeah, that guy!'

 

He's always been a bit of a "What if ..." story to me.  What if MGM hadn't temporarily lost some of its leading men to the war effort -- would Hodiak's career have got off the ground in the first place?  Since he was unceremoniously relegated to smaller roles upon their return, perhaps not.  What if he hadn't died so young -- would he have made a comeback as he seemed poised to do after a rough few years?

 

And he's one of a number of MGM actors other studios seemed to use much better on loan-out than did MGM. 

Edited August 17, 2014 by Bastet

[aradia22]

I know Edith Head is the name everyone likes to throw out but I see Helen Rose and Irene in the credits much more than I see Head's name. At least in the movies I watch. Do any of you have some recommendations for books (or documentaries, movies, TV specials, etc.) I could look up to learn more about them?

[voiceover]

Enjoyed the Herbert Marshall day.  I'm one of those who didn't know about his prosthetic leg until Robert mentioned it last night.  Amazing.

Of the second-tier-type leading men, I've always thought he was one of the handsomest, in a moody, Mr Rochester-sort-of way.

[PaulaO]

Hello.  I wandered over from TWoP--glad to see this group is still here.  Watched Foreign Correspondent last night.  As much as I love spies and Alfred Hitchcock, I thought this would never end.  I knew who the traitor was as soon as he came on screen.  The whole airplane scene was just unnecessary, and the ending speech too jingoistic.  I kinda want my 2+ hours back.  On the other hand, watched Manhattan Melodrama today (the DVR is full of William Powell) and even though the movie is 80 years old, it still packs a punch.  

[aradia22]

I don't know if it's because it's summer or because I was on vacation for so long but I'm having trouble sitting down to watch a TCM movie. Every time I try I'm not into it. Does anyone else feel this way? Like, there's something about these movies that demand to be watched during some other season? Preferably fall but winter and spring are also acceptable. Maybe it's just that the angle of my TV in relation to the sun ruins the colors during prime afternoon movie watching hours. 

[PaulaO]

I know exactly what you mean.  I love the golden hours of dawn and that is my preferred time to watch TCM movies--around 7 am on a weekend.  Or late at night with the lights off, nested on the couch.  It's hard to watch in the full daylight.  There's something magical about these movies that demand a special viewing environment.

[Crisopera]

aradia22 - a book I always found interesting about costume design is the out-of-print "Hollywood Costume Design" by David Chierichetti.  You might want to look at your local library or it can be found on half.com for cheap.  It's very good on the Hollywood Golden Age designers.

[Rinaldo]

@Crisopera -- do you know any books that are devoted to the subject of Hollywood designers walking the line between costuming/hair that is historically accurate, and what looks attractive or appealing to a movie audience? I remember a wonderful article in New York magazine in the mid 1970s that not only discussed this for current movies, but showed still photos with comment balloons around them showing what was and wasn't true to the period. It talked about the Richard Lester Three Musketeers (how it was superb in this area in most respects, but Raquel Welch and to some extent Faye Dunaway had their own "people" to make them look good according to current taste) and the Redford Great Gatsby (how, for all the expense devoted to costume design, none of the women had 1920s hair or the boyish figure of the period).

 

I had thought that surely there were whole books devoted to this sort of discussion, but to this date I've never found one. Can you (or anyone) help?

[Crisopera]

Rinaldo - I found a book that sounds interesting: "Hollywood and History" by Edward Maeder (et al.).  Looks like you can get a copy cheap on Amazon.  (In fact, I might get one myself.)  I seem to remember that it was the catalogue from an exhibit at the LA County Museum of Art, and one of its sections deals with historical accuracy.  There are other books that deal with historical accuracy (not necessarily costume), like "The Hollywood History of the World" by George MacDonald Fraser, which is very entertaining.  I've always loved those designers, like Walter Plunkett and Raoul Pene Dubois, who seemed a bit more historically accurate than most.

[aradia22]

Thanks, Crisopera. The book is at my local library so I'll try checking it out in a few months when I'm not so busy. I hope Chierichetti is not the one who wrote the Edith Head book I checked out of the library a few months back. That was so poorly written I could only get through about 60 or 70 pages and then I just flipped through to look at the pictures. 

 

An article on a fashion/beauty blog that I constantly question why I'm still on the email list for made an interesting point about the coverage of Bacall's death and life. Having not seen any of her work beyond The Mirror Has Two Faces (Yes, I know. I'm planning to remedy that ASAP.) I don't have much of an opinion beyond, yeah, I wish people would talk more about her life and work simply for my own edification.

http://www.refinery29.com/2014/08/72972/lauren-bacall-death

[ratgirlagogo]

I remember liking the Maeder book a lot, but it's been a while since I read it.  Know there are other things I've read but drawing a blank for the moment.  There was a good exhibit at the Museum of the Moving Image in Queens about ten (fifteen?) years ago on this topic that had a lot of the costumes and wigs on display.

[Crisopera]

aradia22 - that is the same Chierchetti.  I haven't read the Edith Head book, but the costume book isn't egregiously badly written, as far as I remember.  And it's full of interesting info.  I have a soft spot for him, because one of the first books I read when I got really interested in old movies was his bio of the perennially underrated Mitchell Leisen, one of my favorite directors.  That one could possibly be terribly badly written, but at the time I wasn't reading for style, just info.

[Rinaldo]

I have the book on Mitchell Leisen (it was a premium given to DGA members, and my father directed movies, mostly commercials, in Chicago). A lot of it is oral histories from those who worked with Leisen, but I don't find a thing wrong with the way the rest of the book is written.

 

The article I mentioned was by Anne Hollander, "The 'Gatsby Look' and Other Costume Movie Blunders," in New York magazine (no date on the pages I clipped long ago, but the recentness of Gatsby and Three Musketeers ought to narrow down the search, if anybody likes to hunt in libraries). Anne Hollander was a scholar of clothing through the centuries, specifically its depiction in art. As far as I've determined, this was her only writing specifically about movies; she did it so well, this article should have been an extract from a big book. By the way, she died just this year, and she was born a Loesser, the niece of songwriter Frank.

 

I can't resist at least a short, abridged extract: "Everybody is quite willing to believe that nightgowns have always looked pretty much the same; so why should a sexy medieval heroine not wear a slinky, fitted, and semi-transpartent confection, since that looks wonderful on the star, even if historical research reveals that people didn't wear anything to be in the Middle Ages, or if they did, it was a straight-cut, rough, and skimpy linen shift? Why shouldn't Garbe wear a clinging and silky thirties negligee in Camille (1936), since it went to much better with her face and voice than the crisp and voluminous wrappers of the mid-nineteenth century? Also, from 1934 until quite recently, all movie nighties, modern or historic, were worn over hilariously incongruous but quite discernible bras."

 

The three annotated photographs are wonderful. I especially treasure the Musketeers one (contrasting Geraldine Chaplin as the queen, her hair and dress taken from a Rubens portrait of that personage, with Raquel Welch in standard old-timey flattering hair and highlighted bosom), but the Gatsby one (focusing on hair and hats) and the SF one (showing how in both Planet of the Apes and Things to Come, similar "signals" for futuristic clothes are combined with current ideas of attractiveness) are also terrific.

[Charlie Baker]

Saw The Outrage this morning--which I don't remember seeing before, though I may have.  I love Paul Newman--he looked like a classic idea of a movie star, and he could act very well.  Here he throws himself into playing a Mexican bandit and sometimes he pulls it off, and sometimes he is overacting and reminds you how ludicrous it looks today to have a non-Latino actor play such a role with such a heavy accent.  The movie is a western--ization of Rashomon. and follows the original pretty closely.  Differing versions of two crimes, a rape and a murder. Claire Bloom and Laurence Harvey are excellent as the victims.  The various takes on the incident are shared by three men waiting for a train in the middle of nowhere, and they are played by William Shatner (a minister), Howard da Silva, he of 1776 (a prospector), and Edward G. Robinson (a con man).  Robinson is especially good and makes the philosophical ruminations sound like real dialogue, which his cohorts don't always manage.  It's worth seeing, but I couldn't say if it would look better if you haven't seen Rashomon, or if you see Rashomon after. The direction by Martin Ritt is very studied-looking and James Wong Howe's black and white photography is gorgeous.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Charlie Baker

[Crisopera]

You can read the Anne Hollander article on Google Books - http://books.google.com/books?id=n-kCAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=%22anne+hollander%22+gatsby&source=bl&ots=qx4KSu7wWt&sig=sZ2RFVOVTs8XAsU-AU4A9G0cHiU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PqLzU5qDG43KsQTmqIK4Cw&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22anne%20hollander%22%20gatsby&f=false

[aradia22]

So I finally started watching And Then There Were None. The beginning with the boat and the scarf was just a bit too whimsical for me so I fastforwarded and just watched from the confrontation on the beach to the end since that's my favorite part of the book. It was cute enough but lacked the punch of the book. Have they ever filmed a really faithful movie adaptation? I think I'd be more inclined to watch that. Also, it did not help that they cast the guy I disliked in Dance, Girl, Dance as Lombard.

[voiceover]

I forgot to mention -- the Bingleys* were in [bette Davis version] The Letter!  He was some eager-beaver assistant early on; she was the boring wife of Davis's attorney.  Hilarious that I recognized him by voice first, instead of face.

 

* from Pride & Prejudice w/Garson & Olivier

[Rinaldo]

So I finally started watching And Then There Were None. ... Have they ever filmed a really faithful movie adaptation? 

By all accounts this was the most faithful, by some distance. I'm sure I posted this link somewhere, but I tried to search this thread for it and couldn't find it, so here it is: a series of blog entries (read from the bottom up to get them in the order they were written) about all five film adaptations of this book, rather bending over backwards to be fair to some of them (though not hesitating to be critiical when called for), and finally giving prizes for the best portrayal of each role and element among them all. Great fun, even when one disagrees.

 

You can read the Anne Hollander article on Google Books - http://books.google.com/books?id=n-kCAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=%22anne+hollander%22+gatsby&source=bl&ots=qx4KSu7wWt&sig=sZ2RFVOVTs8XAsU-AU4A9G0cHiU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PqLzU5qDG43KsQTmqIK4Cw&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22anne%20hollander%22%20gatsby&f=false

I bow in admiration of your skill, @Crisopera ! That's it exactly, of course. and I hope everyone here who expressed an interest in this subject reads the article. I still think it's outstanding.

[aradia22]

Hmn. I feel like what I really want is one of those BBC specials/miniseries. I want the creepiness but in a way that's also a little boring. Well, not quite boring. But I don't want it to bash me over the head with how scary things are supposed to be or have a ridiculous soundtrack. I want a quiet kind of scary. The quiet horror as the people on the island slowly realize what is happening and that there's nothing they can do to prevent it. Also, because I do not have the constitution for real horror and freak the hell out at jump scares. If the 1945 version is the best one on film then I'm throwing this on my possibly blasphemous pile of "movies I wouldn't mind seeing good new remakes of" along with Brief Encounter.

[3pwood]

The NY Magazine article about historical inaccuracy in costumes & hair is fascinating -- thank you very much, Crisopera.  Have to admit that I've never really noticed the issues she points out, but now I realize how differently (& much better) the British handle such things.

[aradia22]

 

 

"Everybody is quite willing to believe that nightgowns have always looked pretty much the same; so why should a sexy medieval heroine not wear a slinky, fitted, and semi-transpartent confection, since that looks wonderful on the star, even if historical research reveals that people didn't wear anything to be in the Middle Ages, or if they did, it was a straight-cut, rough, and skimpy linen shift?

Have to admit that I've never really noticed the issues she points out

I think I'm more tuned into this level of historical accuracy because I'm interested in issues of sexuality and objectification and I also come at movies from the perspective of someone who has read a lot of romance novels where historical inaccuracies abound. They usually avoid it in the better books but every so often there's an anachronistic negligee that just pulls you out of the book and makes you question how much research the author did. Another reason why that short on The Costume Designer with Edith Head is so amusing is that even if they had the best of intentions, the resources haven't always been there. There are sometimes layers of misinformational and cultural prejudices you have to sort through before you know for sure what certain people were wearing during a given time period. 

 

I can't say for sure what kind of historical accuracy will pull me out of a movie. I have a decent sense of things but my knowledge of each decade of fashion is not so complete that I would likely be bothered if you put a woman's suit from the early 30's into a movie that's supposed to take place in the mid 40's. It has to be really jarring for me to pick up on things like that. And then of course there are properties that gleefully flaunt their historical inaccuracy. I can't think of a movie off the top of my head but the TV show Reign is just so brazen I can't complain.

[Rick Kitchen]

That article about costuming is interesting, but it's always been that way, hasn't it?  Didn't Shakespeare clothe his Romans in contemporary English garb?

[BuddhaBelly]

Need a little help. Did anyone catch the short biopic on Hungarian director, Michael Curtiz last night? If you did, did you happen to catch the title?

[CherryMalotte]

Oh my friends in Pre-Code Land September is going to be a lot of fun!

 

 http://www.tcm.com/schedule/monthly.html?tz=est&sdate=2014-09-01

 

Parachute Jumper airing on Friday Sept 6:15AM CST is a lot of fun, Douglas Fairbanks Jr and Bette Davis both looking delish, a funny Frank McHugh, and yes that other man is Leo Carillo.  It's always great to see Leo in his other roles rather than what people probably remember him in, being Cisco's sidekick.

[jodo]

Need a little help. Did anyone catch the short biopic on Hungarian director, Michael Curtiz last night? If you did, did you happen to catch the title?

I did watch it but didn't notice a title...they have a tendency on TCM to air those a few times and I have seen it more than once.  Lyle Talbot was the one who spoke about him for one and Mary Wickes.  

[LuciaMia]

Oh, TCM.  How could you have Thelma Ritter day and NOT show 'All About Eve.'

 

Birdie: 'What a story. Everything but the bloodhounds snapping at her rear end."

 

Please, post your favorite lines.

[Crisopera]

Thanks for pointing out the pre-codes on TCM, CherryMalotte!  Just from a cursory glance, I would highly recommend Safe in Hell and Frisco Jenny (both on September 5, following each other at 12:15 and 1:30 PM).  They are both genuine jaw-droppers.  And if you're just getting interested in pre-codes, take a look at Baby Face (that same night, at 8PM).  It's as tough as they come (and Barbara Stanwyck is fantastic, as always).

Edited August 20, 2014 by Crisopera

[Charlie Baker]

Love Ms. Ritter. She is stunning in Pickup on South Street, which they are showing tonight.

 

As for lines from All About Eve delivered in her inimitable fashion:

 

"This bed looks like a dead animal act."

 

"Are you looking for an argument or an answer?"

[Rinaldo]

That article about costuming is interesting, but it's always been that way, hasn't it?  Didn't Shakespeare clothe his Romans in contemporary English garb?

Sure, and the article points that out too (on the second page). One of the things I value is the way she doesn't take a condemnatory attitude toward the practice, or say it makes the movies worthless -- she's just interested in the phenomenon, how it works and what it says. And one of the points repeatedly made is that the idea of making the star look her/his very best (according to current taste) is a valid one... but the way this keeps negotiating with historical accuracy is, at least, interesting.

[Bastet]

"Are you looking for an argument or an answer?"

 

"An answer."

"No."

"Why?"

"Now you want an argument!"

 

I also love the exchange about whether the girdle is a size smaller or Margo is a size larger. 

 

And those are just the Birdie quotes.  The movie is filled with terrific lines.

[LuciaMia]

BIRDIE: You all put together?
MARGO: My back's open. Did the extra help get here?
BIRDIE: There's some loose characters dressed like maids and butlers. Who'd you call - the William Morris Agency?
MARGO: You're not being funny, I could get actors for less. What about the food?
BIRDIE: The caterer had to go back for the hors d'oeuvres-(she zips up Margo’s dress and sweeps her shoulders with a flourish). Et voila.
MARGO: That French ventriloquist taught you a lot, didn't he?
BIRDIE: There was nothing he didn't know.

[3pwood]

I love Safe In Hell, so glad it's being shown.  Anyone who hasn't seen it is in for a treat -- Dorothy Mackaill is wonderful & should have had a much greater career.

 

Haven't seen Frisco Jenny & I'm looking forward to that.

 

TCM is such a blessing.

[zillabreeze]

Maybe this isn't the place, but I'd like to start a TCM thread. "Movie that will always make you bawl, no matter how many times you watch it". I'll start with "Waterloo Bridge" and let the mods fix it.

Edited August 22, 2014 by zillabreeze

[Constant Viewer]

Never seen Waterloo Bridge, but the first couple of minutes of "The Best Years of Our Lives," especially when Harold Russell comes home, gets me every time.

[zillabreeze]

Oh hell, Constant Viewer. That is a scene like no other, that flick is a heartbreak from start to end. You just start slinging snot right off the bat. Check out Waterloo , Vivien Leigh will break your heart.

[zillabreeze]

So as long as I am irritating Mods, what I really think a good thread would be is " SCENES" that will make you bawl no matter how many times you watch them." so I would have to throw in the funeral scene from either of the "Imitation of Life" flicks.

Edited August 22, 2014 by zillabreeze

[Julia]

At the end of Stand and Deliver when they show the number of kids in each of his classes who passed the AP exam. I melt every time.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Julia

[zillabreeze]

 

At the end of Stand and Deliver when they show the number of kids in each of his classes who passed the AP exam. I melt every time.

OOh - I think I messed up.  Every single post is gonna make me leaky!!!

[Bastet]

There is a "Tearjerker" thread in Movies.

[zillabreeze]

Thank you - I thought I had explored all corners.  Still adjusting frtom Twop.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Oh, TCM.  How could you have Thelma Ritter day and NOT show 'All About Eve.'

I thought this also at first - but of course TCM shows it a lot and I was glad to see some of her films  I'd never seen - the standouts on that end for me being The Mating Season and The Model and The Marriage Broker.  Amusing too in The Mating Season to notice how much (to my eye at least) Thelma resembles Miriam Hopkins.  And always enjoy Pickup on South Street.

 

But if I were choosing between movies they show a lot, I would have preferred All About Eve and Rear Window for Thelma instead of Birdman of Alcatraz and How The West Was Won.

 

ETA: how INSANE is it that she was nominated for the  Best Supporting Actress Oscar  SIX TIMES and never won???

Edited August 23, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[Julia]

Amusing too in The Mating Season to notice how much (to my eye at least) Thelma resembles Miriam Hopkins.  

 

Amusing to see how little Miriam Hopkins resembles Miriam Hopkins. I think she must have gone to Ginger Rogers' plastic surgeon, because I don't think faces naturally age into that weird oval shape.

[voiceover]

I didn't make it through all of Robin & Marian last night (not for lack of trying, but it was late and I was tired).  I've seen all of it, piece by piecemeal, but I'd forgotten how wonderful that first scene of the reunion was.  How I adore that she has such a "Get the hell out of my way!" attitude towards him at first.  There's no slo-mo running into each other's arms.  But then, quite naturally (& appealingly), they fall back into the rhythms of their old relationship -- she jumps on the back of his horse just like (as she reminds him) she'd done hundreds of times before.

And the moment when they come together, and she takes off her wimple ("I've never kissed a member of the clergy before!"), and she tells him how desperate she'd been without him at first -- lay-down-and-die desperate -- why, I am always in their thrall.  

 

Talk about tearjerking moments: when he says to her, "I never mean to hurt you.  But it's all I seem to do."  I'm afraid that strikes a little close to my heart, and I always, always weep.

 

My Fair Lady, on the other hand...eh.  I hatehateHATE that Cukor shot this on backlots, and that Hepburn's Cockney is so grating, and that Harrison has such a case of over-done-it-itis.  I only have time for three scenes in this movie: the disastrous tea at Ascot (where I mouth Eliza's dialogue, word-for-word..."Gin was mother's milk to her!!" = never not funny); the last moment of the film; and Jeremy-freakin'-Brett stealing the show with "On the Street Where You Live".  Just thinking of him hitting that high note ("Let the time go by;  I --- I -- I...don't care if I....") gives me goosebumps.  Perfection.  But where was his close-ups?  I don't think this film had any.