Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Curio]

Isn't Hook technically heartless at this point if Emma plans on splitting her heart with him? (It doesn't make sense for a person to have 1.5 hearts...) So his behavior in the sneak peek seems to match Will's personality from Wonderland when he was heartless. I think we're going to see this kind of behavior until he's officially not dead again in Storybrooke.

[ParadoxLost]

I don't find anything problematic with Hook's behavior in the sneak.  Emma on the other hand is really, really messed up.  It seems like the Underworld is affecting her in some way like major abandonment issues cropping up.  If anything is off about Hook, I'd have to say he's probably the first one picking up on Emma deteriorating emotionally and that is coming out.

[mjgchick]

Dont give the writers that much credit. lol Id like to hope that the Underworld is doing something to her.

Can I sleep till 5x20?

[Curio]

So in the new sneak peek, Belle says, "Merlin said that perhaps one day someone would be able to wield the power of the Dark One dagger for good. Show me that you can be that man." But haven't we already seen that? Emma and Hook were able to use the power of the Dagger/Excalibur for good to prevent Nimue from snuffing out the light in Storybrooke. 

[YaddaYadda]

I kinda hate what the sneak peek is implying.

[Bishop]

Not loving the writing for Killian in the snark department the last episode and from the sneak peek. I can headcannon why he might act that way because of guilt/stress/what have you, but that is not how it's being presented. He's coming across as ungrateful and unnecessarily rude to the people who are risking their lives to save him. Why can't these writers just be better? It's my main thought after I watch anything from the show. lol

In fairness to Killian, he has risked his life MANY a time for all of them too, and he had to deal with their insults (guyliner) and snark thrown back at him.  So I say, what's good for the goose.  That being said, you would think the writers by now would learn to craft better scenes with these characters.

[Curio]

I kinda hate what the sneak peek is implying.

 

I'm struggling to see how Belle will justify continuing their relationship when Rumple is clearly laying out his cards in front of her in the sneak peek—he's refusing to stop using dark magic and in fact enjoys it.

 

Has Rumple taken a darker philosophical look on life after becoming an even stronger Dark One? Before he stole the Dark One darkness from Hook, Nimue, et al., I feel like he still at least attempted to want to be a better man for Belle and Bae, even if he seemed to just be lying to himself and did villainous things anyways. But now he's saying, "Dark and light depends on your point of view," "In the end, you do what you can to protect those you love," and, "In the heat of the moment, you do whatever it takes." That all sounds like a bunch of justifications for wanting to keep power and he's fooling himself into thinking that being a Dark One is awesome and he's not a bad guy. While villain and hero can depend on your point of view, dark and light isn't.

 

Edit: Belle mentioning Merlin in the sneak peek makes me sad that she didn't try to tap that in Camelot. Belle, he complimented your intelligence and was a powerful magician who used light magic! Based on what you keep trying to tell Rumple, Merlin is actually the guy you've always wanted.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Curio

[InsertWordHere]

I kinda hate what the sneak peek is implying.

If it's implying that Rumple's the one Merlin was talking about (or at least that Belle thinks he is) then I hate it too. 

[YaddaYadda]

If it's implying that Rumple's the one Merlin was talking about (or at least that Belle thinks he is) then I hate it too. 

The darkness nearly burned through him, it charred his heart to the extent where he almost stopped existing, and in retrospect, maybe that's what the writers should have done.

 

"Dark and light depends on your point of view," "In the end, you do what you can to protect those you love," and, "In the heat of the moment, you do whatever it takes."

 

Merlin may not have been the most straight forward person with what he was thinking, or what he was doing, but this very thing was brought up in 5x07 when Emma said she could use the power to protect her family. 

 

Rumple is using the same reasoning he did when he was trying to protect Bae.

 

I never know what to think or how to feel about Rumple. I'll just wait for the episode to air. At least he's being honest with his intentions which is something he hasn't given Belle is a really long time.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm not going #TeamRumple, but Belle needs to shut up about the hero crap. I do like that Rumple is finally being honest, but at the same time it makes Belle look like even more of an idiot. She knows without a doubt that he's choosing the darkness over her, yet she's still pulling for him to be heroic. She's trying to control his life so she can feel better about herself. It's not about good and evil for her as much as it's about an idealistic image.

They're both sick people.

Edited April 8, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

Belle and Rumple makes me uncomfortable. She sounds like a domestic abuse victim.

[kili]

She's trying to control his life so she can feel better about herself. It's not about good and evil for her as much as it's about an idealistic image.

 

Belle is one of those women who marry serial killers in prison and thinks they are going to turn them into a good man. When the guy somehow gets out of prison and kills them, you feel sorry for them while thinking they were delusional.

 

Belle needs to accept that you can't change other people, you can just change the way you interact with them. She needs to decide if she wants to be with somebody who will kill/har people if it benefits him and her or if she has to leave him because she doesn't want people killed/harmed for her benefit. She will need to weigh into the decision that he will either still kill/harm others in her name or kill/harm her (or both).

 

Rumple may momentarily be the man she wants him to be, but fundamentally, he is not. For a while, he liked the idea that he could one day be the man Belle wanted him to be, but he seems to have accepted that is never going to happen and wants her to love him for who he is, not who he could be. The ball is in her court.

Edited April 8, 2016 by kili

[Shanna Marie]

RUMPLE: I love power as much as I love you. I will always want power, and I'll do whatever it takes to get and keep power, no matter who it hurts.

BELLE: But you'll use the power for good, right?

[KingOfHearts]

There's some who are good people but got taken down a dark path like Hook or Anastasia. Then there's others like Cruella or Rumple who are fundamentally psychopaths you can't change just by telling them they need to be heroes.

Edited April 8, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

I don't want to provoke the mod gods again, so perhaps we shift the Rumple/power discussion over to the Rumple thread and the Rumbelle discussion over to the relationship thread?

[Rumsy4]

This Sneak Peek makes me sick and angry. The writers are basically condoning abuse.

[YaddaYadda]

At the end of the day, it's Belles choice whether she wants to stay with her husband or go. No one is twisting her arm into staying with him. But now, she has someone else to think about. It's not just about her. If she wants to have blind faith in Rumple, when he betrays her trust once again, it's on her. She refuses to see him for who he really is, and she seems to especially refuse to listen to what he's telling her.

[KingOfHearts]

 

At the end of the day, it's Belles choice whether she wants to stay with her husband or go. No one is twisting her arm into staying with him. But now, she has someone else to think about. It's not just about her. If she wants to have blind faith in Rumple, when he betrays her trust once again, it's on her. She refuses to see him for who he really is, and she seems to especially refuse to listen to what he's telling her.

Taking this to the Relationships thread.

Edited April 8, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Jul 68]

Why is Belle even trying at this point? Oh yeah, TS:TW.

[YaddaYadda]

Why is Belle even trying at this point? Oh yeah, TS:TW.

I could be completely wrong, but it looks like a stubborn thing at this point, where she spent a lot of time believing or wanting to believe that he is a certain way, when he really isn't. I think she's invested in who she wants him to be more than who he really is.

 

And maybe Rumple will try to do the right thing, I mean he has tried in the past, and maybe that's the reason he is in NYC, and seemingly not going back to Storybrooke. Maybe he really wants to give this thing a real shot.

 

Belle hurts my heart though. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Watt]

I wish Emilie would enunciate. I swear I can only understand her half the time and the other half sounds like whining. I have no patience for Belle.

I like Rumple best when he's not pretending to be a good guy. He is best when you're really not sure wtf he is up to.

[CheshireCat]

Watt, on 08 Apr 2016 - 8:48 PM, said:

I wish Emilie would enunciate. I swear I can only understand her half the time and the other half sounds like whining. I have no patience for Belle.

I like Rumple best when he's not pretending to be a good guy. He is best when you're really not sure wtf he is up to.

 

I agree. However, if they keep him a shady character, they should allow Belle to move on because it gets frustrating to watch them on a merry-go-round.

 

And I just read the blind item about the death has been revealed, so it's definitely not Robin. Doesn't mean he's going to die, just that he wasn't the one the blind item referred to, so there is a possibility of a return.

[Serena]

And I just read the blind item about the death has been revealed, so it's definitely not Robin. Doesn't mean he's going to die, just that he wasn't the one the blind item referred to, so there is a possibility of a return.

On the bright side, at least OUAT is (maybe) killing off a straight man! Controversy avoided, congrats, A&E!

[mjgchick]

Right? At this point I can't evn be upset if Rpbin dies because this week they killed off not one but two female leads. JFC.

You guys noticed its the second time they did s blind item and it was that other show. Last time someone went to hell now death. It sounds exactly like what happened on OUAT and what's about to happen again. lol

[YaddaYadda]

I have no idea what show or shows we're talking about. 

 

I am looking forward to seeing how thing whole thing is going to play out just because 5x21 looks like a super packed episode. That's also Hades' last episode, and I'm assuming this is when we get to meet Zeus.

 

I've been wondering if the funeral won't be set for the start of 5x22 like they did with Neal back in season 3. I'm kinda hoping we get a small time jump before the portal shenanigans. But since I know that's not happening...

[Mathius]

So Adam and Eddy really do just want to drag this thing out and milk it as long as possible.  Sigh.

 

And maybe Rumple will try to do the right thing, I mean he has tried in the past, and maybe that's the reason he is in NYC, and seemingly not going back to Storybrooke. Maybe he really wants to give this thing a real shot.

 

I give him a few days before he backtracks on that.  A full week, tops.

[YaddaYadda]

I give him a few days before he backtracks on that.  A full week, tops.

He'll be back by the end of the episode.

[babyPhat279]

Why does no one on t.v. know how to use birth control? C'mon Belle, use some of that book learnin'...

[legaleagle53]

Why does no one on t.v. know how to use birth control? C'mon Belle, use some of that book learnin'...

 

Why should she have?  She probably had intended for them to start a family at some point.  Most married couples do.

[CheshireCat]

babyPhat279, on 09 Apr 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

Why does no one on t.v. know how to use birth control? C'mon Belle, use some of that book learnin'...

 

Maybe fairy tale characters are allergic? ;-)

[RadioGirl27]

You guys noticed its the second time they did s blind item and it was that other show. Last time someone went to hell now death. It sounds exactly like what happened on OUAT and what's about to happen again. lol

I just hope the dead one is different this time. In that other show was the same person both times.

[KingOfHearts]

In the sneak peek, Belle reminds us that Merlin said that perhaps one day the Dark One powers could be used for good. Then in the same scene, she says she doesn't want Rumple to use it. Aren't those mixed signals? I don't understand this show's morality when it comes to using magic.

[Shanna Marie]

I don't understand this show's morality when it comes to using magic.

I think I'll take this to the magic, spells and enchantments thread and skip the reference to the sneak peek, since what I have to say doesn't involve spoilers.

[PixiePaws1]

I 've been thinking about Robin's supposed death and the spoiler photo of that True Love 'temple'

what if only True Loves can pass through back to the above world.

Snowing andRegina &Henry and Emma &Henry are all confirmed True Loves.

Emma & Killian most of us believe will likely be confirmed at that particular point.

Even Rumbelle were until he pulled back so we know Belle has the potential to be True Love so maybe her love for her baby will allow her to pass (although i suspect she gets back by other means)

Zelena and Baby Hood could possibly turn out to be True Love, but i suspect Zelena gets back by other means as well.

That leaves the question hanging. ..

Robin and Regina........soul mates may not actually be True Love, so he maybe can't pass. Now i can't see anyone leaving without him since he did come down to help and Team SB wouldn't just give up on him.The thing is, Regina doesn't look all that broken up. So either she decided that if they aren't True Love she dumps him (very unlikely!) or maybe he isn't 'sincerely dead'. He may be hiding out with the baby and the funeral is a ruse....until they can get him back.

Edited April 9, 2016 by PixiePaws1

[YaddaYadda]

Robin and Regina........soul mates may not actually be True Love, so he maybe can't pass. Now i can't see anyone leaving without him since he did come down to help and Team SB wouldn't just give up on him.The thing is, Regina doesn't look all that broken up. So either she decided that if they aren't True Love she dumps him (very unlikely!) or maybe he isn't 'sincerely dead'. He may be hiding out with the baby and the funeral is a ruse....until they can get him back.

 

The thing is, Robin and Roland are reunited in Storybrooke. So Robin it does seem as though Robin leaves the Underworld.

[PixiePaws1]

.....oh, wow. ..i missed that spoiler (obviously!)...There goes that theory. .

[InsertWordHere]

Tumblr post with pics and details from 5x23 filming.

I'm a bit confused as to why the poster who wrote this up thinks Regina and Henry aren't in Storybrooke after they use the crystal thingy. They seem to stay in the same location before and after they use it. Isn't it more likely that they summon "Jacob" or cause the meek brother to transform into him if the Jekyll/Hyde speculation is correct? Or are we to assume they're transported to some sort of parallel universe?

 

ETA: Hasn't that wedding dress been in that shop window for a few seasons now?

Edited April 10, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[CheshireCat]

InsertWordHere, on 09 Apr 2016 - 9:32 PM, said:

I'm a bit confused as to why the poster who wrote this up thinks Regina and Henry aren't in Storybrooke after they use the crystal thingy. They seem to stay in the same location before and after they use it. Isn't it more likely that they summon "Jacob" or cause the meek brother to transform into him if the Jekyll/Hyde speculation is correct? Or are we to assume they're transported to some sort of parallel universe?

 

ETA: Hasn't that wedding dress been in that shop window for a few seasons now?

 

There definitely was a wedding dress during S4A since Elsa stopped to look at it. I don't know if it's the same dress though.

 

Maybe something indicated that they're not in Storybrooke anymore? Or the speculation is based on that they thought they heard Regina/Henry say "Where are we?"

[Souris]

I'm a bit confused as to why the poster who wrote this up thinks Regina and Henry aren't in Storybrooke after they use the crystal thingy. They seem to stay in the same location before and after they use it. Isn't it more likely that they summon "Jacob" or cause the meek brother to transform into him if the Jekyll/Hyde speculation is correct? Or are we to assume they're transported to some sort of parallel universe?

 

ETA: Hasn't that wedding dress been in that shop window for a few seasons now?

 

I also side-eye that bit about Regina & Henry not being in SB. That seems like speculation based on something the poster thought they heard, which frankly may have been incorrect. They're clearly still in SB.

 

I'm also confused about Violet walking up to the bug. Was she not with them in the bug coming from NYC? I swear I thought I saw pics of that. She's wearing the same outfit, at any rate; they all are.

 

There has been a wedding dress in that shop for several seasons, although this is a different wedding dress than they had before (this one is Alice's from Wonderland).

Edited April 10, 2016 by Souris

[mjgchick]

I knew I remembered that dress some where. I'd almost think we're getting an appearance from Alice because of the whole asylum spoilers.

[Rumsy4]

I too am confused about Violet. Also about the fact that we have so little bts pictures and spoilers about 5.23. The scenes in New York and in Storybrooke after their return can't be more than 15 minutes, tops. I guess most of the action will be centered on the portal-crew.

I think both Belle and Rumple are in New York.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe Henry has a moment with his moms that Violet isn't part of. 

 

She walks up to him, and he's standing near the bug with Emma and Regina.

 

I find the whole first kiss ever in front of parents to be extra awkward, and sort of cringeworthy.

 

But I don't care about any of that. What I care about is that crystal Henry has. And I wonder if that's not what they use to bring everyone back from wherever they are. I wonder if that's not what Regina and Rumple are looking for in Chinatown.

[KingOfHearts]

I don't understand why Violet is getting so much screen time. Henry hasn't mentioned her at all since 5x05. If he was so crazy about her that he would run away with her, wouldn't he miss her?

Edited April 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

I don't understand why Violet is getting so much screen time. Henry hasn't mentioned her at all since 5x05. If he was so crazy about her that he would run away with her, wouldn't he miss her?

 

Well Violet was supposed to have left Storybrooke back in 5x11, so I guess the rewrite is getting us saddled with emo mouthy teenager whose head has swelled because he's an Author, and his teenage girlfriend from another realm.

 

I didn't hate/dislike Violet from what we've seen of her. I just really dislike/hate Henry.

 

I'm getting the impression that they are aging Henry that way without giving a time jump.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I didn't hate/dislike Violet from what we've seen of her. I just really dislike/hate Henry.

I agree. My only issue is that when Team Camelot + Merida come back, it's going to be very out of nowhere. They haven't been relevant at all in 5B. Viewers who aren't spoiled have probably forgotten about them already. Since we're pretty they leave a short period of time after returning, it seems silly they were kept over in the first place just to cut time for 5x11. I don't have the faith to say they're going to get the conclusion we were waiting for.

Edited April 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

About the Camelot gang, they should have had something in 5x16 since we saw Storybrooke about Arthur being freed from jail, and trying to turn it into Camelot like he said he wanted to do in 5x03. With the leadership of the town essentially gone, it becomes easier for him to do that. The fairies are trying to ward him off with their magic, but he has a box filled with magical artifacts, so he's making their lives really complicated. But the fairies, and Merida, and the dwarfs are trying to hold the fort as best as they can. 

 

It also makes the fairies relevant, that if the town is in danger, they can be of assistance.

 

That would have been a good segue into bringing Camelot back into the story without making it the story.

 

Colin in his Vancouver Con panel let it slip that he and Liam Garrigan were filming and doing stunts until 3 am in the morning. Arthur becomes suddenly relevant in 5x21 or 5x22 or something, and it's just going to come out of nowhere as everything else on this show does.

Edited April 10, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

I guess Arthur has Hooks body? Why does he even bother messing with Hook when Hooks bodyguard will just drop kick him again?

[YaddaYadda]

I guess Arthur has Hooks body? Why does he even bother messing with Hook when Hooks bodyguard will just drop kick him again?

 

That's another thing the writing team hasn't bothered with. They haven't bothered telling us anything about whether Hook's body is back in SB, or what they have done with it.

[InsertWordHere]

I read a fanfic that had Smee and the rest of what's left of Hook's pirate crew guarding his body. I'm no Smee fan, but I thought it was kind of sweet. The show, OTOH, will probably have Arthur easily get to Hook's body and cart it all around town.

Edited April 10, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[Rumsy4]

That's a fantastic theory!