Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KAOS Agent]

Maybe that's what the argument was about with Liam? No one is going to be left behind. They always find another way. Hook knows that, but Liam might object to moving on if he thinks it will hurt the Storybrooke crew. 

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe they're just the names of those that helped someone move on?

 

Hook is already dead, so him helping anyone move on wouldn't matter.

 

Regina helped her father move on and MM helped Hercules move on. So a soul for a soul?

 

Besides, the clock tower is allegedly obliterated in the day scenes from 5x20, the ones where Henry is authoring.

 

These people went down to save one person, and decided to help everyone in the UW move on. Sometimes, sticking to your original plan is best.

[scenicbyway]

Maybe that's what the argument was about with Liam? No one is going to be left behind. They always find another way. Hook knows that, but Liam might object to moving on if he thinks it will hurt the Storybrooke crew. 

 

I think even Hook helping to move Liam on ( and please, Emma will be helping too) would cause another stone to be engraved.  The thing that I don't get, is why aren't the Underworld people helping each other move on?  For instance, if it's Hook that can move Liam on, surely there are other residents there that have unfinished business with each other, like Herc and Megara.  Are one half of the people in prison to keep them and the others from moving on?

 

I feel like all of this is for naught because we know that Henry is literally just going to write there way out of there and everyone will move on or something.  I do wonder why Robin still ends up dead though.  Does Henry break the pen again?  Does he not realize he can't be the writer without it?

[Souris]

Looks like Henry has followed Gold to NYC. What is going on? I'm guessing everyone is in trouble and they need Rumple for something.

[Rumsy4]

Unless Rumple's deal with Hades involved him escaping from Storybrooke/Underbrooke with Henry and Belle in exchange for betraying the Nevengers.

[Serena]

So apparently Sean was seen at the airport leaving Vancouver? Did we already know that, I mean he could be leaving for the weekend or whatever, but has he been spotted back since March 10th?

[Souris]

And now Violet is in NYC with Henry. Haha, they've run off to the city to elope! They're gonna have sex before CS! (I kid, I kid.)

[Curio]

Violet and Henry are filming in "NYC" right now? Gosh, I really hope the finale isn't another Henry-centric. Henry-centric episodes should be like the Olympics in that they only happen once every four years. 

[mjgchick]

Sounds like Hook refuses to write the names down and that's why Hades has him hanging on. I don't think Hades realizes that Hook would rather be tortured than do anything to harm those Emma loves.

[Rumsy4]

It looks like Hook is being condemned to the pool of Lost Souls for refusing to cooperate with Hades. 

 

More retcons in the fairyback?? At the very least, I'm glad they are going with very young Baelfire, instead of Dylan Schmid. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Mathius]

Rumple is "suddenly interested" in helping and needs to find Milah? Yeah, who else calls that he and Hades have their meeting right after Hook refuses to help, and now Rumple is in charge of writing down names in exchange for his own release from the Underworld? Hence he needs to help Milah move on from the Underworld so that he can write another name on a grave.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

Him helping Milah can't even be him doing it out of generosity. It has to be so he can save his own ass. lol

[RadioGirl27]

I really hope Milah and Hook can see each other before she moves on.

[Curio]

I'm really nervous about how they're going to handle Milah's character, not going to lie. Will she be a shrewish, nagging wife to make Rumple look better? Will she quickly forgive Rumple for killing her and apologize for running away? Will Rumple finally apologize for what he did, or just use Milah to get what he wants? Will Hook and Milah have an almost-makeout session to parallel Emma and Neal? There's so many good and bad routes they could go here.

[oliverwendell]

I'm just hoping we get some explanation for why Hook (and Meg for that matter) got locked up in the torture dungeon while everybody else's dead self is shuffling around Underbrook and eating kiddie-gingerbread at Granny's. But I'm not holding my breath.

[kili]

It looks like Hook is being condemned to the pool of Lost Souls for refusing to cooperate with Hades.

 

Hook just died as a Dark One to save the people who are in that rescue party. Why did Hades think that Hook was suddenly going to be up for killing them and forcing them into the Underworld? It would completely negate his self-sacrifice and his love for Emma. Besides, Hook will take whatever punishment because he thinks he deserves it.

[YaddaYadda]

Hook just died as a Dark One to save the people who are in that rescue party. Why did Hades think that Hook was suddenly going to be up for killing them and forcing them into the Underworld? It would completely negate his self-sacrifice and his love for Emma. Besides, Hook will take whatever punishment because he thinks he deserves it.

You know, it's all about underestimating someone which is something everyone always seems to do anyway with both Emma and Hook.

[CheshireCat]

YaddaYadda, on 14 Mar 2016 - 3:40 PM, said:

You know, it's all about underestimating someone which is something everyone always seems to do anyway with both Emma and Hook.

 

I think it's more about evil underestimating good because evil doesn't follow rules and, as has been stated on the show several times, evil thinks love is weakness. So, evil concludes they're stronger than good.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm ready for a certain CS/HercxMeg parallel. i'll be rather disappointed if we don't get it (or something similar).

I knew there would be some Henry with an episode titled "Only You."

Aww...I still like Henry and Violet together. Hopefully they don't get into trouble with Rumple. Something must happen to the adults (involving the graves?) that leaves it up to Henry (and Violet?) to save the day. It does kind of look like we might be getting something similar to the season 4 finale. I don't know how I feel about that. The second hour of the finale had some of the worst pacing I had ever seen.

Maybe Henry, using the all-powerful author's pen, pulls a Clarence and we'll get the Rumplestiltskin edition of "The Christmas Carol."

I'll Have my fingers crossed that Henry doesn't get Violet in trouble with the law and then ditch her...

Edited March 14, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[YaddaYadda]

I think it's more about evil underestimating good because evil doesn't follow rules and, as has been stated on the show several times, evil thinks love is weakness. So, evil concludes they're stronger than good.

 

I agree and I disagree with this.

 

Episode 5x08 was filled with people who underestimated the length to which Emma was willing to go to save Hook. Regina, Snowing, Merlin who is supposed to epitomize goodness, and encouraged Hook to persevere in his love for Emma.

 

Yes, evil people Pan, Zelena, Rumple, and now Hades all underestimate love because yes, weakness, but so have the people who see love as strength.

[KingOfHearts]

 

In Fairy Tale Land flashbacks, Rumple and Milah face a life-or-death crisis concerning their son, Baelfire, that forces Rumple to make a deal that will haunt him

I gather Rumple makes a deal with Hades in order to keep Baelfire alive. I'm curious to know what the price for that was. It's strange we see Sparkly!Rumple in the promo yet the flashbacks are supposed to be in the Milah era.

[Shanna Marie]

I'm really hoping that the flashback retcon doesn't show Milah as even more shrewish while poor, good Rumple is willing to go to great lengths to save their son. I suppose it's too much to hope that this shows the dissolution of their marriage even before she met Hook and maybe even shows that even pre-Dark One Rumple was pretty shady, to parallel the way non-Dark, pure "hero" Rumple pulled the move of stealing the Darkness back.

 

I'm not holding my breath about a reunion between Hook and Milah, unless she doesn't get to move on until the end after he's freed and they get a farewell. But I would like Emma and Henry to meet her. "Hey, kid, here's your grandma your grandpa murdered."

[CheshireCat]

YaddaYadda, on 14 Mar 2016 - 3:54 PM, said:

I agree and I disagree with this.

 

Episode 5x08 was filled with people who underestimated the length to which Emma was willing to go to save Hook. Regina, Snowing, Merlin who is supposed to epitomize goodness, and encouraged Hook to persevere in his love for Emma.

 

Yes, evil people Pan, Zelena, Rumple, and now Hades all underestimate love because yes, weakness, but so have the people who see love as strength.

 

True. However, I'm not sure if the situations can be compared in regards to underestimation. I think Emma acted more on impulse (pretty much like Regina when she begged Emma to save Robin) than anything else while Hook, it seems, makes a very conscious decision.

[kili]

. But I would like Emma and Henry to meet her. "Hey, kid, here's your grandma your grandpa murdered."

 

Emma did get to meet her. There was a scene filmed where  Rumple and Emma talk to her while she is a crossing-guard.

[Curio]

But I would like Emma and Henry to meet her. "Hey, kid, here's your grandma your grandpa murdered."

 

It'll probably be more like, "Hey, kid, here's your grandma that your mother's boyfriend boinked back in the day. Har-har. Let's not touch the heart crushing with a ten foot pole. It doesn't fit Rumple's narrative this episode."

[scenicbyway]

Henry and Violet look like they are on a date in NYC, all smiles, enjoying hot dogs from the street vendor.  They don't look like they are in a hurry to anywhere.  Wasn't Rumple seen in NYC driving through a toll booth?  Perhaps he dropped the kids off there for safety?

 

Meanwhile the grownups are at Robin's funeral?  Wouldn't Henry want to be there as well?

 

This must be an AU.

 

As for Hook's life continually in peril in the Underworld (which is dumb because technically he's dead, but whatever), this will be episode 3 of tortured (for no apparent reason, because no one else is being treated like this) Hook.  Enough already, I don't tune in to watch Hook with a major bleeding head wound each week.  Either free him or drop him in the river?  Seriously, if Regina and Emma can poof themselves all over the Underworld, why can't they poof to where he's at and then poof him out.  Just poof him out of the chains already Emma!

 

On last thought on Henry... we've seen him meet up with Violet in a stable (like Regina and Daniel) and now he's on a date in NYC like...Neal and Emma.  Hopefully he'll have a better outcome than those relationships but really, why hope, it's a first love, it's not going to turn out well.

[Selina K]

Holy BSG sighting - Aaron Douglas is in the next episode!  I wonder if they had to get clearance from everyone on Lost before they could cast alum from another show.

[CheshireCat]

Henry and Violet look like they are on a date in NYC, all smiles, enjoying hot dogs from the street vendor.  They don't look like they are in a hurry to anywhere.  Wasn't Rumple seen in NYC driving through a toll booth?  Perhaps he dropped the kids off there for safety?

Meanwhile the grownups are at Robin's funeral?  Wouldn't Henry want to be there as well?

 

 

Is there any indication that both happens at the same time/that NYC happens while the others are at a funeral?

 

 

As for Hook's life continually in peril in the Underworld (which is dumb because technically he's dead, but whatever), this will be episode 3 of tortured (for no apparent reason, because no one else is being treated like this) Hook.  Enough already, I don't tune in to watch Hook with a major bleeding head wound each week.  Either free him or drop him in the river?  Seriously, if Regina and Emma can poof themselves all over the Underworld, why can't they poof to where he's at and then poof him out.  Just poof him out of the chains already Emma!

 

 

Wouldn't they need to know where exactly Hook is in order to get to him, with or without magic?

[mjgchick]

True. However, I'm not sure if the situations can be compared in regards to underestimation. I think Emma acted more on impulse (pretty much like Regina when she begged Emma to save Robin) than anything else while Hook, it seems, makes a very conscious decision.

Their was that moment where Merlin didn't believe Emma could defeat Nimue and she would've likely killed him so theirs that. Also her parents did stupidly think she might go dark before she was even born. I'm not one of those people who thinks the reason why Emma is the way she is because her parents took the darkness out of her.

 

But for the most part it's mostly the villains who under estimate the heroes thus why I can't wait for Emma to demolish Hades or Hook. Her "Bring it." from last night was awesome. I don't think we've ever seen her that confident.

[CheshireCat]

mjgchick, on 14 Mar 2016 - 4:15 PM, said:

Their was that moment where Merlin didn't believe Emma could defeat Nimue and she would've likely killed him so theirs that. Also her parents did stupidly think she might go dark before she was even born. I'm not one of those people who thinks the reason why Emma is the way she is because her parents took the darkness out of her.

 

But for the most part it's mostly the villains who under estimate the heroes thus why I can't wait for Emma to demolish Hades or Hook. Her "Bring it." from last night was awesome. I don't think we've ever seen her that confident.

 

I would say though that Merlin's judgement was clouded and I would think Snow and Charming were afraid and not necessarily underestimating Emma.

 

Emma demolishing Hades or Hook? Why would she demolish Hook?

[YaddaYadda]

I'm confused about the BTS from today.

 

Henry is in NYC with Violet. There was a funeral allegedly set for episode 5x21, and Lana posted a pic of her and Jared. Jared was wearing a grey suit, so I'm thinking he attended the funeral? Henry sort of looks happy in NYC, unless the funeral is happening after 5x22?

 

Also, what is he doing taking the bus to the city? I'm thinking his mothers have no idea?

 

And are we still dealing with the Camelot gang in 5x22?

 

Given the title of 5x22, not shocked that this will be mainly a Henry episode.

[Mathius]

I'm really hoping that the flashback retcon doesn't show Milah as even more shrewish while poor, good Rumple is willing to go to great lengths to save their son. I suppose it's too much to hope that this shows the dissolution of their marriage even before she met Hook and maybe even shows that even pre-Dark One Rumple was pretty shady, to parallel the way non-Dark, pure "hero" Rumple pulled the move of stealing the Darkness back.

 

I'm not holding my breath about a reunion between Hook and Milah, unless she doesn't get to move on until the end after he's freed and they get a farewell. But I would like Emma and Henry to meet her. "Hey, kid, here's your grandma your grandpa murdered."

 

I suspect it'll be framed as an unstable marriage, Milah will be framed as having valid points like she had in earlier appearances...and those valid points will be (yet again) promptly ignored by fans who insist she's an outright abusive spouse rather than just one of two people whose marriage isn't working out.  Whatever, I'm more interested in Underworld-Milah anyway.

 

And JMO, Colin, Robert and Rachel all filmed a scene together, so Hook and Milah DO reunite.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

And JMO, Colin, Robert and Rachel all filmed a scene together, so Hook and Milah DO reunite.

 

I don't think Colin and Rachel filmed together. There is no confirmation for that; there is confirmation only for Emma and Rumple meeting with Milah.

I'm really hoping that the flashback retcon doesn't show Milah as even more shrewish while poor, good Rumple is willing to go to great lengths to save their son. I suppose it's too much to hope that this shows the dissolution of their marriage even before she met Hook and maybe even shows that even pre-Dark One Rumple was pretty shady, to parallel the way non-Dark, pure "hero" Rumple pulled the move of stealing the Darkness back.

 

The prognostications do not look good for non-shrewish Milah. 

http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/once/gallery6/gallery15/hires/1.jpg

http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/once/gallery6/gallery15/hires/6.jpg

[KingOfHearts]

Is it me or is the show starting to lack original female minor characters? Fendrake, Black Tooth, Dead Eye, etc. I'm getting a little tired of the bland brutes. Those all seem the same to me. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

The prognostications do not look good for non-shrewish Milah.

http://www.farfarawa...y15/hires/1.jpg

http://www.farfarawa...y15/hires/6.jpg

You have to note the context. Bae has been bitten by a venomous snake (you see Milah holding the snake's body in one still), and his parents have approached this shady voodoo healer for help. It looks like the price is questionable, and Milah and Rumple are at odds as to what the best course of action to take is. I don't think this makes her a shrew, her son's life is on the line so emotions would be running high in any argument. I can't blame her or Rumple.

But again, what does it matter? Fans will find a way to paint her as a shrew regardless.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

I'm not calling her a shrew. I'm just making an educated guess. Until we see the episode, we won't really know how how she is going to be portrayed. 

[mjgchick]

I'm kind of afraid of how they will write Milah as well because this show loves to wooby Rumple (much like his fans do.) but if they are going to make him the big villain at the end of the season AGAIN then maybe we shouldn't. I don't know I'll wait for the episode.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm kind of afraid of how they will write Milah as well because this show loves to wooby Rumple (much like his fans do.) but if they are going to make him the big villain at the end of the season AGAIN then maybe we shouldn't. I don't know I'll wait for the episode.

I think it's difficult not to look like a shrew with how pathetic Rumple is portrayed. How would she get anything done with him when he's so spineless?

 

This does appear to be after Manhattan flashbacks, so I suspect she'll be bossing around poor old hobble-foot. I'll blame A&E&J's victimization writing before I'll ever blame her. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I'm kind of afraid of how they will write Milah as well because this show loves to wooby Rumple (much like his fans do.) but if they are going to make him the big villain at the end of the season AGAIN then maybe we shouldn't. I don't know I'll wait for the episode.

Yeah, it all depends on whether we're getting poor woobie Rumple who has a good heart and is worthy of Belle's love, but he just has that weakness for power (that's really not his fault because he's just reacting to being such a victim) or we're getting deceptive, power-mad Rumple who can never be trusted and who will take the magical shortcut every time, regardless of the impact on everyone else.

[SiobhanJW]

I wonder if there will ever be a time where we stop getting Flashbacks and start getting Flashforwards like Lost?

Edited March 15, 2016 by SiobhanJW

[KAOS Agent]

Oh dear God, Henry's going to write an AU, isn't he? 

[YaddaYadda]

Oh dear God, Henry's going to write an AU, isn't he? 

 

Scary thought, isn't it?

[mjgchick]

An AU where Emma isn't a murderer. Riveting.

Adam and Eddy are so tired so they decide to write the same finale from last year.

Edited March 15, 2016 by mjgchick

[scenicbyway]

An AU where Emma isn't a murderer. Riveting.

Adam and Eddy are so tired so they decide to write the same finale from last year.

I feel like that's already been written. Oh wait..,

[CheshireCat]

I'm going to be optimistic and say that it won't be an Author-written AU since that's already been done. But that doesn't mean that we won't get an AU.

 

But why was I of the opinion that there were only 22 episodes this season? Anyway, now I'm wondering - was the funeral scene already part of filming 5x22 or still 5x21? Just wondering because of the title of 5x21 and because the blind item clearly states that the funeral is happening at the very end of the season finale. And if the funeral scene was part of 5x21filming then Once is not the blind item and then there's hope for the character to come back and that would make me a teeny-tiny bit less worried about who it's going to be. (No idea how they would film 5x22 and 5x23 if it's a double episode like the S3 and 4 finales (as in, do they film/treat it as two episodes or one episode))

Edited March 15, 2016 by CheshireCat

[scenicbyway]

I'm going to be optimistic and say that it won't be an Author-written AU since that's already been done. But that doesn't mean that we won't get an AU.

But why was I of the opinion that there were only 22 episodes this season? Anyway, now I'm wondering - was the funeral scene already part of filming 5x22 or still 5x21? Just wondering because of the title of 5x21 and because the blind item clearly states that the funeral is happening at the very end of the season finale. And if the funeral scene was part of 5x21filming then Once is not the blind item and then there's hope for the character to come back and that would make me a teeny-tiny bit less worried about who it's going to be. (No idea how they would film 5x22 and 5x23 if it's a double episode like the S3 and 4 finales)

I don't understand the numbering either. But from what I've read on tumblr says that the death looks permanent, more so than others have been.

It's totally possible that Once isn't the blind item, but there could still be a death.

[KAOS Agent]

 

Scary thought, isn't it?

 

The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see Henry take after the power hungry/damn the consequences side of his family and get taken down about twelve million pegs by having him think that as the Author he's helping people when in reality he screws things up big time. Henry needs to learn a big lesson and stop with his self-righteous crap. We see him writing endings or whatever. Why not get him drunk on power trying to make everything perfect and then fail miserably? I figure the end result of this could be that Emma dies, Regina dies and Robin dies but only one of these sticks. 

[Jul 68]

Holy BSG sighting - Aaron Douglas is in the next episode! I wonder if they had to get clearance from everyone on Lost before they could cast alum from another show.

I was going to post about this. Aaron is a fantastic Vancouver based actor who never gets enough screen time.

[Curio]

5x23 "An Untold Story." Ah, so this clearly won't be a Regina-centric. ;)

 

The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see Henry take after the power hungry/damn the consequences side of his family and get taken down about twelve million pegs by having him think that as the Author he's helping people when in reality he screws things up big time. Henry needs to learn a big lesson and stop with his self-righteous crap. We see him writing endings or whatever. Why not get him drunk on power trying to make everything perfect and then fail miserably? I figure the end result of this could be that Emma dies, Regina dies and Robin dies but only one of these sticks. 

 

That could be interesting and realistic for a young teenager to assume that they're always right and that everyone can be happy. So Henry writes everyone in the Underworld happy endings and gets rid of pain and misery, but he soon realizes the life lesson that pain and misery exist for a reason and you can't always be happy 100% of the time.

 

I'd hoped for an AU where Emma always grew up in the Enchanted Forest as a princess, but I don't want that to be a one-off episode finale. That should span at least a few episodes or even half a season.

[KingOfHearts]

Could Henry write up a "curse was never cast" scenario?

Edited March 15, 2016 by KingOfHearts