Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Katherine]

The only issue with reverting Regina back to the Evil Queen mode at this point is Roland. If she goes full-on evil and dumps the kid off on The Charmings until her temper tantrum is done, I don't think that could ever be redeemed. How does one be an Evil Queen and keep track of three different children at the same time? (Oh no, did I just give Adam & Eddy their inspiration for Season 6?)

I completely forgot about both of Robin's children. Oops. But hey, if we're supposed to see Regina as redeemed after witnessing her rape a man for 30 years, send children to the blind witch, repeatedly try to murder a woman for telling a secret when she was 10, gaslight her own son, etc...well let's just say, nothing would shock me.

[YaddaYadda]

I will be shocked if they kill Robin off. Besides, what's the excuse they will use for not going to the UW and getting him back? Robin has 2 kids that will end up orphaned. I'm pretty sure Roland is now part of Regina's happy ending and all, but I don't know that they'd go that far.

[Katherine]

I guess I just don't see A & E giving much consideration to how Robin's death would affect his children. It would be all about how it affects Regina. Robin being manipulated and raped by Zelena wasn't about Robin or the baby. It was about Regina.

 

I do agree that Robin having children makes his death less likely, but I still don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.

[KAOS Agent]

Maybe the Underworld will cease to exist once everyone leaves? Maybe the defeat of Hades means clearing out all of those people with unfinished business such that the Underworld as a waiting room will not be necessary anymore. Now it will simply be that those who die now immediately move on to where they should have always gone. Thus, Robin would not be saveable. Or alternately, there was some sort of interview with the showrunners about how you can die in the Underworld but it's different. If Robin were to die in the Underworld, then his death would not be reversible like Hook's. The stakes actually need to be real (and stick!) for this arc and since it seems to be a Mills sisters arc, those stakes need to be applied to them.

[Shanna Marie]

The stakes actually need to be real (and stick!) for this arc and since it seems to be a Mills sisters arc, those stakes need to be applied to them.

Except, alas, the Regina Exception Clause forces "stakes" for Regina to be much lower than for any other characters. She's not allowed to suffer for more than a few minutes. They'd consider her not being entirely sure where Robin is for half an episode to be life-or-death, handwringing, intense stakes, and all will be resolved when he wanders back by himself without her doing anything but sitting around and alternately crying and bitching at people.

 

I'm guessing the bloody hook clip in the promo has something to do with that harrowing scene they're talking about with Hook.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Maybe the Underworld will cease to exist once everyone leaves? Maybe the defeat of Hades means clearing out all of those people with unfinished business such that the Underworld as a waiting room will not be necessary anymore. Now it will simply be that those who die now immediately move on to where they should have always gone.

I would think it would have to be like this. Otherwise, every time a character dies in the future audiences will be asking, "Well why don't they take a trip to the Underworld and get them back?"

Edited February 24, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

I'm guessing the bloody hook clip in the promo has something to do with that harrowing scene they're talking about with Hook.

 

The bloody hook is not in the premiere. Either they cut it or it's in another ep.

 

There does seem to be something hinky up with Robin. If he dies, Emma can feel guilt about causing the death of Regina's love just like Snow. But this time, Regina will forgive her to complete her transformation into the bestest hero EVAH! 

 

Gawd, can you imagine the wails of "Poor Regina! Why can't they let her be happy??? It's all the fault of that horrible Emma & Hook" from some of the fans? And then, of course, SQ would think they're halfway to canon & just need to target Hook even more to get rid of him. Even more fandom fun than now!

 

I honestly wouldn't care if they killed off Robin -- heaven knows they don't use him -- except for the way portions of the fandom would react.

[KingOfHearts]

 

The bloody hook is not in the premiere. Either they cut it or it's in another ep.

Cruella makes an appearance in the promo as well (in the flesh), but she's not in the premiere either.

 

 

Gawd, can you imagine the wails of "Poor Regina! Why can't they let her be happy??? It's all the fault of that horrible Emma & Hook" from some of the fans? And then, of course, SQ would think they're halfway to canon & just need to target Hook even more to get rid of him. Even more fandom fun than now!

If anything bad happens to anyone in the Underworld, I'm sure Emma and Hook will be the scapegoats. 

[PixiePaws1]

it was basically that Rose and the Doctor wound up in different dimensions.Here I would think just do setup it's that Emma and Hook are 'in different dimensions' parallel..

I will feel even worse for Emma if she spends nearly all of 5b unable to touch Killian. ...but l may just forgive this if the pay off is a TLK as he becomes corporeal.

..still so unfair because clearly Cora can touch Regina... (go on ..Snow...bitchslap Cora...you know you want to...)

[KAOS Agent]

Jen's comments about Emma feeling responsible should anything happen to those who are with her definitely points to something bad happening to someone who is not Hook or Emma. Never mind that these are all grown adults (except Henry and nothing's happening to him) who made their own decision to go with her. She was going alone and it's nice that they want to help, but it's on them if something bad happens. Thus, we'll get happy reunited Captain Swan whose future will be derailed due to Emma's guilt about screwing up whatever for whomever. 6A becomes 4A redux as Emma cannot be happy when someone else is suffering the consequences of their own actions because somehow it's all her fault.

 

It's possible something happens to Snow too. It depends on when Ginny is due, but I wonder if she's not smarter about what having a newborn entails and how that affects her work. She might actually take more than a five week maternity leave this time and spend time with her kids with a lighter workload beyond that. That could also be why she's missing and tie into the roof scene spoiler where it sounded like Emma dreamed that Snow died.

[Serena]

I will be shocked if they kill Robin off. Besides, what's the excuse they will use for not going to the UW and getting him back? Robin has 2 kids that will end up orphaned. I'm pretty sure Roland is now part of Regina's happy ending and all, but I don't know that they'd go that far.

Yes, this is the problem with the UW arc. They did it once, why not again? Except if they decide Robin is like Neal, and he passed on to the next level already and can't be retrieved. But why wouldn't a man with two children have unfinished business?! 

 

I think A&E don't care about Robin at all, but they like to have him be there to be Regina's arm candy, and so they made him a regular to be sure Sean was always available. It would be a problem if they wanted him back but he was contracted to something else. This way, Once is his #1 priority.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Jen's comments about Emma feeling responsible should anything happen to those who are with her definitely points to something bad happening to someone who is not Hook or Emma. Never mind that these are all grown adults (except Henry and nothing's happening to him) who made their own decision to go with her. She was going alone and it's nice that they want to help, but it's on them if something bad happens.

Snow: "OMG! Robin died! I can't believe you, Emma. You promised it'd be a safe little excursion to the Underworld. Boy, did your charms deceive us. Your life is going to be built on his blood, so I hope you remember that every time you're with Hook. Taking away Regina's happy ending is unforgivable!"

 

 

(go on ..Snow...bitchslap Cora...you know you want to...)

I expect groveling. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

I can see it now, the "amazing pay off" some fans expect for all the CS angst is going to be them breaking up because she feels guilty about something that happens in the UW (Robin dies, Regina breaks a nail... ).

[Serena]

I still expect them to get married/engaged. The guilt can come later. That's what happened in 3B (huge CS moment --> Regina's whining cockblocks)

So like, they get married, but Emma feels bad so no wedding night?! Alternatively, they do it in a crypt to honor Robin's mad skillz.

I still don't think he's gonna die.

[YaddaYadda]

Sean is going to be at The Viper Room on March 28th performing, I'm assuming. It's a Monday, so I don't know if he is done filming, or if Once will work around his schedule like they did Colin and Ginny for instance while she's promoting Zootopia.

 

Regarding Ginny, she was still filming in 5x18 (Ruby Slippers). There are BTS of her with the gang. 

 

I'm already wondering what the finale will be.

Edited February 24, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Selina K]

Horrible thought of the morning.  If any of the Robin speculation is true, this couldn't be a 4B parallel, right?  Emma sacrifices herself to the darkness for Regina, so then Regina turns around and sacrifices her happiness so Emma can have hers?  Even though that would actually be something that would be a legitimate redemption move on Regina's part if it didn't involve someone else dying, I can already hear the SQ chorus rising in paeans of 'we told you! it's true love!'

Edited February 24, 2016 by Selina K

[Serena]

So like Regina's sacrifice would be someone else dying? No, she can't sacrifice someone else. If anything, we should sacrifice herself, and it only counts if she's not the one who caused the problem in the first place (2B doesn't count).

[Curio]

So like Regina's sacrifice would be someone else dying? No, she can't sacrifice someone else.

Yeah, sacrificing Robin's life isn't a Regina sacrifice...that's a Robin sacrifice. Although, if it were to happen on the show, I could see the writers treating it like an Abraham and Isaac situation where Regina is this close to leaving Robin in the Underworld as the sacrifice, but then the angel Adam & Eddy would descend upon the scene and be like, "Wait! We've taken it too far. Just the fact that you were willing to sacrifice Robin is enough. You can have him back now." So, kind of like the 2B plot where the fact that Regina was just willing to die was equivalent to her actually dying in the eyes of our heroes.

Back to some less speculative spoilers—Souris, I have a question about the Belle and Rumple scene. Does it come off like a last-minute decision to include it in the episode because a lot of people complained about Belle not being in the loop about the Underworld plot? Does it seem to contradict the scene in "Swan Song" where Rumple sneaks out of their bedroom in the middle of the night? If it's too spoilery to answer, that's okay.

[Souris]

Back to some less speculative spoilers—Souris, I have a question about the Belle and Rumple scene. Does it come off like a last-minute decision to include it in the episode because a lot of people complained about Belle not being in the loop about the Underworld plot? Does it seem to contradict the scene in "Swan Song" where Rumple sneaks out of their bedroom in the middle of the night? If it's too spoilery to answer, that's okay.

 

TBH, I didn't pay that much attention to the RB scene! It was very short. I do remember Adam reassuring a Belle fan on Twitter awhile ago that she was in the 100th ep -- can't remember the exact timing of where they were in filming when he said that.

[mjgchick]

Wasn't their spoilers of Ruby, Hook and David in some woods? Did she and and Mulan end up in the Underworld as well?

[YaddaYadda]

Wasn't their spoilers of Ruby, Hook and David in some woods? Did she and and Mulan end up in the Underworld as well?

I wanna say that was episode 5x18 (Ruby Slippers), and they filmed in the cemetery if I'm not mistaken. 

[kili]

Sean is going to be at The Viper Room on March 28th performing, I'm assuming. It's a Monday

 

The 28th is Easter Monday. They probably get a 4 day weekend and he can fly up in the morning.

[PixiePaws1]

in that video from last night's filming. .looks like a small prop being passed to Greg....maybe a tiny scroll...very hard to see..maybe Hades is going to curse them..?? Now that is wild spec....

Can't tell if Emma and/or Regina wearing the anti magic cuffs..can anyone see?

[Souris]

Perhaps a contract? JMo was holding a tan piece of paper in BTS pics.

[KingOfHearts]

 

"If you look at it metaphorically, it's not so much can we ever forgive him, it's how do you continue interacting with this person that is a part of the family and is a part of the group," Morrison continued. "We're never going to be free of that. He's always going to be part of the family. You just have to continue adjusting to that and figure out the best way forward. It's not about getting rid of him or something."

Nothing against JMo, but it's the show's mentalities like this that make me want to quit watching.

Edited February 24, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

It is such a fucked up way of thinking. This guy is terrible to everyone, but he's family, so it's out job to find a way to deal with it? I know she has to say those things, but UGH.

[YaddaYadda]

He's always going to be part of the family.

 

But he doesn't want to be part of the family. And why would anyone want someone like that in their family? Does that mean they will keep going to him for assistance? They have no one to blame but themselves when he inevitably betrays their asses

 

I don't know what it is that Rumple has learned that will make him redeemable. Because he's not at this point.

[mjgchick]

That's just not ok. How many times do these people have to get screwed over by this asshat before enough is enough? He just tried to kill Emma and Hook like a 2 months ago. You're telling me Emma is ok with Rumple keeping her locked up for 2 yrs knowing who she is just because he is Henry's grand father? They are better people than I am because I would've dropped kicked Regina and Rumple years ago.

[KingOfHearts]

"This person is an abusive husband, a murderer, a conman, and routinely screws my loved ones over. But he's family, so I guess we'll have to work around that. And by that I mean... blackmail his ass."

 

It bothers me less with Regina because she has actually taken steps to change, but Rumple is still as evil as ever. I hate the idea that you get a free pass if you have blood or marriage ties.

Edited February 24, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

"I think that if fans are like, 'Oh, are they going to do the same thing again?' -- absolutely not. [Rumple's] learned a lot."

Rumple's "learned a lot"? Like what? You get a complete re-do every time someone sucks the darkness out of your body, so why bother being good? That no matter how shitty you treat your family and trick your grandson's mother's boyfriend into dying for no good reason, they'll always forgive you? Is that what he learned?

 

And trust us, Eddy. We know you'll do the same thing again. It's TS;TW. If you "don't do the same thing," that would require everyone to put their foot down and not forgive Rumple. And Jen basically shot that idea down in the same article, so it looks like it will be the same thing again.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Rumple's "learned a lot"? 

Well he now has the combined knowledge and magic of ALL Dark Ones, so I guess he's learned something.

[mjgchick]

Emma can't even kill Zelena as the Dark One without these people judging her but Rumple? "Meh it's granpa Rumple. He can do no wrong."

[YaddaYadda]

There's literally 5 people that are always held accountable for their actions. 

 

Snowing (see babynapping)

Hook

Emma

I'm adding Zelena to the list because Regina is her jury, judge and executioner.

 

Rumple has pulled too much shit since the very 1st episode of season 4. It's like how do you even live around someone like that? 

[Souris]

Can't tell if Emma and/or Regina wearing the anti magic cuffs..can anyone see?

 

Emma doesn't appear to be wearing it here.

[Rumsy4]

Casting news for 5.21

 

Robin-centric this late in the season? Sounds like a yawn-fest, going by his previous centric. I have a feeling we will see the end of Zelena this episode, one way or another. For the record, I don't think Robin is going to die. It would have been hyped like Neal's death was. 

 

ETA: People are speculating the casting call is for Richard the Lionheart. That might be interesting.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

Unless the writers are planning on taking Regina back to her evil roots, I just can't see Robin being killed off. Plus that's the only impact it will have. 

 

If they're going down to reboot Regina with the whole "I shall destroy your happiness if it's the last thing I do," and she says that to the person she blames for Robin's death (take a pick, probably Emma, I'm thinking), then I say bring it.

 

Otherwise, please don't.

[KingOfHearts]

 

If they're going down to reboot Regina with the whole "I shall destroy your happiness if it's the last thing I do," and she says that to the person she blames for Robin's death (take a pick, probably Emma, I'm thinking), then I say bring it.

Okay, I really, really want this to happen. #RebootRegina

 

 

Casting news for 5.21

My mind went to Lion King for some reason.

[Rumsy4]

A Rumple-reboot is bad enough! I don't want a Regina reboot. Emma will spend all of Season 6 trying to redeem her. 

[YaddaYadda]

A Rumple-reboot is bad enough! I don't want a Regina reboot. Emma will spend all of Season 6 trying to redeem her. 

Well, I don't think we've gotten the Hades centric yet. I mean it's weird that they might have it so late in the season if 5x14 isn't it. But maybe we'll luck out and the prince they're casting is Zeus.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Well, I don't think we've gotten the Hades centric yet. I mean it's weird that they might have it so late in the season if 5x14 isn't it. But maybe we'll luck out and the prince they're casting is Zeus.

S6: The gang goes to Ancient Greece World?

[Rumsy4]

Well, I don't think we've gotten the Hades centric yet. I mean it's weird that they might have it so late in the season if 5x14 isn't it. But maybe we'll luck out and the prince they're casting is Zeus.

 

That might work. But if The Nevengers save Hook and are back in Storybrooke by 5.20 (Firebird), why would they have a Hades centric after that? Unless Hades follows them back to Storybrooke for revenge. Maybe we'll get a clue when the episode title is released.

[ParadoxLost]

Robin-centric this late in the season? Sounds like a yawn-fest, going by his previous centric. I have a feeling we will see the end of Zelena this episode, one way or another. For the record, I don't think Robin is going to die. It would have been hyped like Neal's death was. 

 

ETA: People are speculating the casting call is for Richard the Lionheart. That might be interesting.

 

Let me ask a question.  Any rumors or confirmation of a Marian sighting.  Because that plus Richard the Lionheart would make me come down on the side of a Robin Hood death being possible.

 

They just need a lessening of hostilities with Zelena to take care of baby hood.

 

Marian being in the UW and Robin sacrificing himself so she can live would take care of Roland.  And the great retcon that Marian was never Marian could be spun to explain why Robin never had any Regina doubts.

 

Frankly, I used to subscribe to the theory that Robin's tattoo was related to King Richard and caused mistaken identities with Regina.  I vaguely remember that this might have been disproven but can't really recall.  In my throes of 'if we are going to focus on Regina then wouldn't it be better to have a volatile couple that disagrees - in a town shuddering War of the Roses type way- instead of this rather bland Robin/Regina pairing."

Edited February 25, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[YaddaYadda]

That might work. But if The Nevengers save Hook and are back in Storybrooke by 5.20 (Firebird), why would they have a Hades centric after that? Unless Hades follows them back to Storybrooke for revenge. Maybe we'll get a clue when the episode title is released.

 

What if Hades follows them to Storybrooke? He's a God, he should be able to cross realms whenever he feels like. 

 

I agree that we will know more once we get the title.

[Souris]

I agree that we will know more once we get the title.

 

We have it. Last Rites. Oh, my. That sounds ... deathy.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

We have it. Last Rites. Oh, my. That sounds ... deathy.

 

Yeah, and we still have no clue whose centric it is.

[Souris]

There was speculation that the casting call for Prince Marcus sounds like Richard the Lion-heart from the Robin Hood tales, but that's just spec.

[Curio]

We have it. Last Rites. Oh, my. That sounds ... deathy.

 

No kidding.

The last rites are the last prayers and ministrations given to many Catholics when possible shortly before death. The last rites go by various names and include various practices in different Catholic traditions. They may be administered to those awaiting execution, mortally injured, or terminally ill.

Well, who's the dead man walking?

[sharky]

Of course my first thought was Priest Killian fanfic. This fandom....

Anyways, yep, last rites are a Catholic thing and BEFORE you die. Makes me think someone is on their deathbed and then -- hiatus! Because that's never happened before on this show. I also wonder if it's a play on words: last rites/rights. Maybe something about Zelena, Robin and who has rights to Pistachio.

[YaddaYadda]

 Well, who's the dead man walking?

there seems to be a consensus regarding Robin, and that he will bite it.

 

I think Zelena is done though. 

 

ETA - This seems to be too much death for one season. Hook twice or one and half depending on how we see 5x08. So they bring him back to life in 5x20 (possibly) to kill off someone the next episode? I don't know.

Edited February 25, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[scenicbyway]

 

No kidding.

Well, who's the dead man walking?

Well, Hook is the dead man walking right now.  But it sure sounds like a Robin centric...how do they kill off Robin when he's got 2 kids?