HoodlumSheep August 23, 2015 Share August 23, 2015 I do think Eddy's question to the audience at D23? about the Evil Queen returning wasn't just a random thing. I think they are considering turning Regina dark again. There's nowhere else to go with her. I would also hazard a guess that there are a lot more Evil Queen/Mayor Mills fans than there are Hero!Regina fans in terms of the general audience. Then I could start liking her again! She's great as the evil queen. I've always figured (or wished) that A&E would have enough guts to let only one of the two (Regina or Rumple) get a happy ending. Up until this point I've always figured Regina would get a happy ending and Rumple wouldn't. But if Mr. gold is now a separate being...it'd be quite the twist for Regina to go evil again (and bot just for an episode). Reading/watching all the angry reactions to that scenario would be glorious. Anyways, Morgan seems like a normal name to me, if his name is the problem. I mean, you're forgetting about Morgan La fey. So Morgan is fine to me. Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 23, 2015 Share August 23, 2015 Anyways, Morgan seems like a normal name to me, if his name is the problem. I mean, you're forgetting about Morgan La fey. So Morgan is fine to me. I think that's what she means by weird because there's already a Morgan in the Arthurian legends and the person is a huge deal. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep August 23, 2015 Share August 23, 2015 (edited) ^ oh. Whoops. Maybe that's the secret twist! Something like what happened with Cora pretending to be Lancelot! Merlin, or a surprise Morgan la fey pretending to be Sir Morgan! Edited August 23, 2015 by HoodlumSheep Link to comment
RadioGirl27 August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 Can someone tell me why some of the Evil Regals think Regina is going to die this season? LOL. This is the funniest thing I've read in this thread in a long time. A&E would cancel the show before killing Regina. Do we know what's up with that dude who seems to be named "Morgan"? Isn't it a weird name considering the mythology? I'm lost here, who is this guy named "Morgan"? Link to comment
KingOfHearts August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 Maybe that's the secret twist! Something like what happened with Cora pretending to be Lancelot! Merlin, or a surprise Morgan la fey pretending to be Sir Morgan! Or you know, Morgan could be a guy to begin with as a gender-swap twist. I'm lost here, who is this guy named "Morgan"? Someone please answer this. I'm lost as well. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 Or you know, Morgan could be a guy to begin with as a gender-swap twist. I wonder what A&E would consider more dramatic for a "Plot Twist!" Gender-swapping or someone getting Cora'd. Hmmm... Link to comment
Serena August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 (edited) This dude is playing Sir Morgan, according to canadagraphs and katmtan. I wouldn't think A&E would genderbend a female villain into a male one, I mean they LOVE nothing more than female villains. EDIT: Sir Morgan seems to be the name of Violet's father. Canadagraphs is a jerk, but most of his info is legit (he had the title before Adam posted). Edited August 24, 2015 by Serena 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 (edited) Literally three seconds of new footage (mostly King Arthur). 3 seconds that got me so very excited! Those images of the knights on their horses and the backdrop is very beautiful. And they've already changed the sword in the stone bit. ETA - About Sir Morgan, it was supposed to be Sir Lionel for 5x05 with his daughter Violet, but maybe they decided to change the name for whatever reason. Edited August 24, 2015 by YaddaYadda Link to comment
Serena August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 3 seconds that got me so very excited! Those images of the knights on their horses and the backdrop is very beautiful. And they've already changed the sword in the stone bit. ETA - About Sir Morgan, it was supposed to be Sir Lionel for 5x05 with his daughter Violet, but maybe they decided to change the name for whatever reason. What sword in stone thing have they changed? I'm not really up to date on my Arthurian lore. Is it supposed to be different than what they've shown? Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 What sword in stone thing have they changed? I'm not really up to date on my Arthurian lore. Is it supposed to be different than what they've shown? It should be. Arthur was a squire for his foster brother Kay. During a tournament or other, Kay's sword is lost or broken (depending) and Arthur tries to find him a replacement sword and comes upon the sword in the stone, Excalibur, which he pulls out out of the stone, thereby making him the rightful heir and king. So in this, it seems that Arthur is already a knight, he is with Lancelot (who in the legend he meets way after) and Percival who also comes into the story afterwards. They're about to flip the Arthurian legend on its head. Arthur and Gwen have known each other since they were children, Lancelot and Arthur know each other before he is king (or at least that's what it seems to be like to me). 1 Link to comment
Jul 68 August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 Let me start by saying that so many stories were written about Arthur that I don't believe one superior to another. YaddaYadda: That's not the Arthurian legend that I was taught. This link shows the story as I know it: http://www.heroofcamelot.com/legend/sword-in-the-stone 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 (edited) I tend to go with the Once and Future King, so maybe I shouldn't have said sword in the stone, but the broad strokes are there in both. In OaFK, they don't know who Arthur really is and Merlin sort of coerces Ector into taking him in and Kay is an asshat and I wanna say jealous of Merlin's attentions but I really can't recall. And yes, the sword in the stone and excalibur aren't the same, I keep referring to the sword in the stone as that. For some reason I've always done that.That being said, I'm just totally and completely excited about this. That whole scene of them riding the horses was just all sorts of perfect and I cannot wait for the real thing. This show has managed to sucker me once more. Edited August 24, 2015 by YaddaYadda Link to comment
Souris August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 What does this have to do with Regina? This is just more promotion of Dark Swan. From all their harping on Emma going Dark, it will be funny if it turns out as tame as the Shattered Sight spell. If the town is lacking a Savior, then that implies it needs a new one. They've already been calling Regina the new Savior in some interviews/touting her taking on Emma's role. If one didn't know the latter, it wouldn't necessarily seem like a Regina setup, but since I do…. I do think Eddy's question to the audience at D23? about the Evil Queen returning wasn't just a random thing. I think they are considering turning Regina dark again. There's nowhere else to go with her. I would also hazard a guess that there are a lot more Evil Queen/Mayor Mills fans than there are Hero!Regina fans in terms of the general audience. That was an odd and deliberate question that Eddy asked, which also made me wonder if they were going to turn her Evil Queen again. It seemed to get a mixed or not hugely excited response, but I think some of the audience weren't really expecting it and were a bit confused. I know watching the live Periscope, I was all, "Huh? Wait, what? Why is he asking that?" and then they had moved on. Anything would be better than this have-their-cake-and-eat-it-too approach they've been taking with her, where she's treated as a hero simply for not murdering people anymore but still being a rude, selfish narcissist. 1 Link to comment
mjgchick August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I don't think I've ever heard either Adam or Eddy out right say that Regina would be the new savior. In fact the only people I've seen say that is Natalie Abrahams and Lana not denying it. Are we sure we should take their word or did either Adam or Eddy has admitted this and I just haven't found out yet? Link to comment
retrograde August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I think it comes from this, where Lana and JMo say they will "flip" but Lana adds that Regina will band together with everyone to save Emma. My guess is that Regina is not the capital-S Savior in any magical way like Emma is, but her storyline this season will revolve around the quest for Merlin (as will Hook's; and Snowing's will to a degree, but they will probably have Camelot dramas) and, in the end, she will probably do something heroic or sacrifice-y to help save her, because that's how the writers roll. Link to comment
Mari August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 If they've decided to flip Regina back to the villain column, does that mean we'd lose Robin, Zelena, and Baby Green? Link to comment
KingOfHearts August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 (edited) If they've decided to flip Regina back to the villain column, does that mean we'd lose Robin, Zelena, and Baby Green?If Henry and Robin both died, hypothetically, would Regina revert to the Evil Queen?(Not saying they would do that. This show isn't that risky.) Edited August 24, 2015 by KingOfHearts 1 Link to comment
Rumsy4 August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I don't think A&E mean to make Regina full on Evil Queen again. That's why they keep showing us 1 million EQ flashbacks. That way, they can have over the top theatrics and costume in the past and "redeemed" Regina in the present. :-p Link to comment
Writing Wrongs August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I've kind of been skimming through the spoilers and I'm confused. How does all the gaiety of a block party fit into the Dark Swan stuff?? Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 (edited) I don't know, it's not someone else that needs saving ASAP (like Regina or even Rumple since they interrupted their celebration like right away to go save him even though, you know, he tried to fuck them over)? Edited August 24, 2015 by YaddaYadda 1 Link to comment
Souris August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I've kind of been skimming through the spoilers and I'm confused. How does all the gaiety of a block party fit into the Dark Swan stuff?? That's what people are wondering. Maybe it signals there's been a time jump and some people have given up on saving her? Link to comment
scenicbyway August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I've kind of been skimming through the spoilers and I'm confused. How does all the gaiety of a block party fit into the Dark Swan stuff?? Well, somehow, the people of Camelot have been transported to Storybrooke. It appears to be a welcoming festival for them perhaps like the reception they put on for the Storybrooke people when they went to Camelot to find Emma. They're allowed to throw parties even with Emma as DO, it looks like from the spoilers that Hook and the rest of the "save Emma" group isn't really joining in on the fun. I think it's just a setting for them to meet up with new crucial information into saving Emma (which we know won't matter because nothing does unless it's in a finale). The episode will air around Halloween so it makes sense to do something special. As we know, anytime they throw a party, something awful happens, this is just another version of Character a--"Party at Granny's!!" Audience-- "Oh, for love of God, they'll never learn" Link to comment
RadioGirl27 August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I don't think I've ever heard either Adam or Eddy out right say that Regina would be the new savior. Maybe not them, but Lana has. And really, we only have to look the four previous seasons to see that they probably think it's a cool twist to make Regina the Savior now that Emma is the "worst villain ever", and that to have Regina save Emma after she sacrificed herself for her and her happiness (because no matter what Jennifer says, for A&E Emma did it for Regina not for the town) would be like going full circle. That's why I don't understand why there are fans who still think that Hook or Snowing are going to save Emma when it's pretty obvious that it's not going to happen. I don't think A&E mean to make Regina full on Evil Queen again. Yeah, they would never do that. They love her way too much, and it would make all the other characters look stupid. Yeah, I know they don't care for the other characters too much, but still. I've kind of been skimming through the spoilers and I'm confused. How does all the gaiety of a block party fit into the Dark Swan stuff?? It doesn't, but the spoilers are all over the place and nothing makes sense. Season 5 is going to be either amazing or a total mess. I lean towards the second option, but some people is actually excited about the new season. Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 but some people is actually excited about the new season. I'm excited! I want it now, as a matter of fact. Watching that mini-promo last night with Arthur and the knights riding their horses with that seriously gorgeous backdrop. I don't know who the director for that episode is, but it sort of reminded me of the opening scene of this show. 1 Link to comment
mjgchick August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I no longer know wtf is going on but Emma's hair is pretty though. Link to comment
Souris August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 Oh, darn, the Dreamcatcher title doesn't refer to Neal. ;) 3 Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 (edited) “Although dreamcatchers evoke and remind us of Neal, they have been used on the show — magically,” cocreator Eddy Kitsis explained to TVLine during our in-depth Fall Preview Q&A. Outside of that, Kitsis shared that “Dreamcatcher” as “a very Emma-centric episode,” though it won’t incorporate any flashbacks to her past. “The construction [of Season 5A] is different as far as flashbacks go,” Horowitz noted. “But we will be getting an Emma flashback in the early part of the season.” Very Emma centric and they talk about how it was used magically to retrieve Pongo's memories. So instead of Rumple's it's Emma's memories they're going after? There's something sort of off with this. If they're retrieving her memories then what happened to her? I sort of like that this is all confusing because we already knew a shitload of stuff last year. It's also frustrating as hell. Edited August 24, 2015 by YaddaYadda Link to comment
Souris August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 It doesn't specify that it's Emma's memories. Just that the ep is Emma-centric. Link to comment
RadioGirl27 August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I love how A&E have thought it was necessary to reassure the fans that Neal is not coming back. And, yeah, this is either the episode were Emma goes fully dark or, way less likely, she is saved. I think her family is going to try to use the dreamcatcher with her and it's going to backfire. Link to comment
Souris August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 The previous time the dreamcatcher was used magically, the memory retrieved wasn't what the actual truth was, since what Pongo saw was a deception. That could happen again, since one of the themes of the season is "things aren't what they seem." Emma could see something fake in a dreamcatcher that causes her to go full Dark -- Hook kissing someone he thinks is her (Swan Princess parallel), or her family plotting to take away her magic or send her into the Apprentice hat until they can figure out what to do with her. Link to comment
Curio August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 (edited) If that Emma and Hook romantic garden moment was in this Dreamcatcher episode, I'd have guessed that the magic dreamcatcher can show people their futures. I also thought the dreamcatcher would be a good way to keep Rumple relevant by extracting his memories, but if it's an Emma-centric episode, then probably not. Maybe the Nevengers use the dreamcatcher to show Emma all the flashbacks and memories of her loved ones spending time with her as a last ditch effort to not have her turn dark. They each take turns holding it one by one, showing how she has impacted every single one of them, and they tell the dreamcatcher to reveal the most significant moment they share with Emma that truly helped her become the Savior she is today. So it's starts out by hovering over Henry and it shows how they used to spend so much time together at Granny's and their True Love Kiss in the hospital, then it goes to her parents and it shows them hugging Emma for the first time after she broke the curse and how Charming had to battle the knights to protect her as a baby, then it hovers over Hook and it shows one of their many #ItHappenedOffscreen dates where they were happy, and then it goes to Regina and it shows her killing Graham, which (shock!) Emma didn't know about, which then sets Emma off officially on the Dark Swan path. (Yeah, I know. I'm just beating a dead horse with that one.) Edited August 24, 2015 by Curio 6 Link to comment
Souris August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 (edited) Oooh. That would be a nice, pertinent callback -- if the show wanted us to actually remember that Regina murdered Graham. That would make Emma very rage-y. Edited August 24, 2015 by Souris Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 And what if there is no physical dreamcatcher that's being used during the episode and it's just a metaphor for whatever. This Emma centric that's supposed to be a heart breaker is the episode where Henry gets a "love" interest and she's not even there to witness any of it. Me think Emma is physically separated from her son. It's likely by choice because she wants to protect him and since he's a kid and not an adult then she can make the decision for him. I'm having a bit of an inkling as to what might be going on with her. Just have to wait and see. Link to comment
KingOfHearts August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I love how A&E have thought it was necessary to reassure the fans that Neal is not coming back. Only for the hundredth time... "We didn't care about him! Didn't then - don't now! Stop asking us!" Link to comment
Souris August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 I'm having a bit of an inkling as to what might be going on with her. Just have to wait and see. Share with the class! ;) Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 24, 2015 Share August 24, 2015 Share with the class! ;) The rest of the class will have to wait because it's a bit out there. Link to comment
KingOfHearts August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 The rest of the class will have to wait because it's a bit out there. Like, "Marian is Zelena!"-level out there? Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 Like, "Marian is Zelena!"-level out there? Probably? I mean I had a whole crack theory worked out about A&G after the BTS for 5x01 came out and then we got the episode titles for both 5x02 and 5x04 and it got me wondering how cracked it is. Everytime I think of 5x05, my mind goes directly to 2x06, Tallahassee. Link to comment
Souris August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 The rest of the class will have to wait because it's a bit out there. Shoot, I've put some pretty out-there spec out here! ;) Speaking of, I was looking at the casting description of Merlin, and he's described as someone who has always put duty in front of his own desires, even at great personal cost. So out of that and JMo talking about past Dark Ones having a good reason for taking on the Dark One mantle, plus a few wild hairs, I'm wondering if the original person that Merlin put the darkness into was somebody who volunteered, perhaps somebody he loved? Maybe somebody who hasn't been cast yet like, say, Morgan Le Fey? It could have been a great sacrifice for both him & his loved one, giving up their happiness in order to save the kingdom. That could parallel Emma's sacrifice nicely. I would actually like that very much, especially if the darkness ultimately ends up being destroyed -- it would bookend the Dark One's creation and its destruction. I toyed with the idea of the original dosage of darkness being from Arthur, taken out of him so that he could be a good and just ruler -- but that would only work if Camelot has been in statis. (And Lancelot being alive to marry Snowing becomes problematic, so that would require some hand-waving to explain away.) I don't really expect this part of it to be what happened. Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) Speaking of, I was looking at the casting description of Merlin, and he's described as someone who has always put duty in front of his own desires, even at great personal cost. I was actually going to say that this description of Merlin fits Emma perfectly. Emma's duty as the Savior trumped pretty much everything. She came back to SB after Zelena's curse, knowing what it would cost her Henry on some level and she took on the darkness because she is the Savior. but that would only work if Camelot has been in statis. I think Camelot was in stasis and parallels Storybrooke. Lancelot doesn't have to be problematic. I sort of keeping going back and forth on this Lancelot issue in the sense that if Camelot is cursed and they figured out a way to get someone out (Lancelot was raised by the Lady of the Lake, so he could find a way out through the water way and into the EF) to say find Merlin for assistance, would they want anyone to really know his purpose in the Enchanted Forest? Maybe he's really in love with Guinevere and he left Camelot because of her, so that he can help save her from whatever is going on back home. The dark curse was created by someone who then took care to "protect" it. You don't know if your creation works unless you've tried it. Camelot is your trial run basically. It's also the best way to explain why these people did not age, why Camelot wasn't torn apart by the Dark Curse when Regina cast it. Until 4x12, we were always under the assumption that Rumple was the creator of the Dark Curse. Turns out he only hijacked it and amended it to fit whatever it is he wanted the end result to be, like using Emma to break the curse. I also think Camelot has a really nasty history with the Dark One whoever he may be. Edited August 25, 2015 by YaddaYadda Link to comment
KingOfHearts August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 Robin does not have a connection to Merida,” Kitsis said, “but he will intereact with her.” Why do the writers avoid such obvious connections like this? Link to comment
mjgchick August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 And how has Snow, Robin and Merida not have an archery contest where Robin remains the loser? 2 Link to comment
LizaD August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 You know we never got a maternity test on Henry/Emma. If her real kid was dead and Henry ain't it, that could be the tipping point to dark-dom. And that would blow up twitter no? Ok but seriously, their call back to that specific dreamcatcher is also the first time Rump taught her magic. Is that what they're referencing too? My "out there" spec is that the Camelot flashback stuff in the first 4 episodes are all fake. It's what Emma dreams would happen when her family comes riding to the rescue, ending with that white dress garden stuff and she's "saved." Nobody goes to Camelot except for Emma, but instead the Camelot people traveled over to Storybrooke when Dark Emma came back and she brought them with her somehow. We get to see what really happened with Dark Emma when someone uses the dreamcatcher. That would explain that filming part where Arthur and co. show up in Storybrooke and the dwarves went after them with axes or something like that right? Cause they don't know who these people are, only Charming would from his past. Link to comment
Souris August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 Interesting theory, LizaD. That would be a heartbreaker. But there's one spoiler that would seem to contradict it -- in the filming when Snowing, OQ & Arthur join hands against whatever CGI creature they come up with, set reports indicate that Snow asks Regina what she's doing, and Regina replies, "What I should have done in Camelot!" So that implies that they were actually in Camelot at some point. Link to comment
LizaD August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) Whelp nevermind then. See this is what happens when my eyes just glaze over whenever I see Woegina. You know maybe the "heartbreaker" is meant to be taken literally and not of the emotional variety. It's not like the writer said she was sobbing. Emma literally "broke" a heart in the comic con promo right? And even though that's not canon it's almost guaranteed at some point that she will. And the who and how she kills might be what sends twitter into a frenzy. Like Henry's future father-in-law cutting the romance short? Or one of the dwarves, Granny, or Blue Fairy etc. ETA: I find it kind of funny that they've never bothered explaining titles before, although some are self-explanatory, but they have to explain this one? Just to make sure everyone knows it has nothing to do with Neal. Edited August 25, 2015 by LizaD 1 Link to comment
mjgchick August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 That's cracking me up. The writers will ignore every other criticism but they want to let us know just how much they want nothing to do with the Neal character. They'll use him for Emma angst and that's pretty much it. Usually a show would do a reverse on the gender. (Talking to you Supernatural.) Link to comment
Souris August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 You know maybe the "heartbreaker" is meant to be taken literally and not of the emotional variety. Ha! Yes, that could very well be. Does anybody care to lay odds on the victim? That said, I really don't want Emma to kill anybody as the Dark Swan, because unlike Regina, she will actually REGRET it after the darkness is taken out of her. Her guilt would be horrible. But I sadly think they probably will have her kill somebody, to prove she's no better than Regina. Except, of course, Regina had no cursed entity overtaking her, just her actual personality. So…. Link to comment
Serena August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) I had to roll my eyes at that latest post from the pap who stalks the set, about the crew not letting fans closer. Newsflash, some OUAT fans are creepy and invasive, and if I were part of the crew I would NOT want to risk some of the cast getting hurt and being my fault. The fans aren't ENTITLED to watching spoilery filming. Edited August 25, 2015 by Serena Link to comment
kili August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 You don't know if your creation works unless you've tried it. Camelot is your trial run basically. Maybe Camelot is from our land and their curse took them to the Enchanted Forrest as well as sucking all the magic out of our world. It would explain why Camelot is based on historical events and why we, of all the realms don't have magic. Perhaps it was somebody's (and I'm looking at Merlin) attempt to suck all the evil out of the world (much like the evil was sucked out of Emma). But as we learned, sucking the evil out of something does not guarantee that it will not return. The evil sucked out of our world created the concentrated Flubber of Evil (only smaller), so Merlin had to tether it to somebody. 2 Link to comment
YaddaYadda August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 Maybe Camelot is from our land and their curse took them to the Enchanted Forrest as well as sucking all the magic out of our world. It would explain why Camelot is based on historical events and why we, of all the realms don't have magic. This is a very cool theory. Everyone from the EF gets sucked into the LwM and everyone from Camelot which used to be in the LwM is sucked somewhere into the EF. If Merlin sucked the evil out of our world, then he did a piss poor job of it. Link to comment
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