Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[kili]

They'll probably end up killing the Author

 

I like that idea. The Author is not a guy you want to hang around for story reasons (too powerful and disruptive). How should he die? Dragon Chow? "Does this make for a better story? - Asshat!"

[KingOfHearts]

You know, marketing department... you can only use the "OMG? SNOW WHITE IS.... EVIL?!" card so many times. It's really not that big of a paradigm breaker any more.

[FabulousTater]

You know, marketing department... you can only use the "OMG? SNOW WHITE IS.... EVIL?!" card so many times. It's really not that big of a paradigm breaker any more.

Replying in the Writers Thread

[Serena]

I don't find direct role reversal very interesting because it's essentially a repeat of what we've already seen, albeit with different actors. If Snow were more like Heart of Darkness Snow or Regina was like the ultimate  Disney Princess damsel-in-distress type, then I'd be really fun. However, the only I'd find role reversal worth doing is if there were ramifications for it. For instance, characters realizing how the other felt. Regina seeing how bad the Evil Queen truly was or something. But it's this show, so we'll be back to normal with no emotional consequences in Part 2.

 

Another possible scenario would be one of the characters having their memories and being affected, whether negatively or positively, by what they see. This seems to be the road they're going down, but it'll be Emma or Henry... and I really don't care about what they think of all of it. Henry is, well just Henry, and we've already gotten plenty of reaction to the fairy tale craziness from Emma.

Yes, this is so not interesting. I mean, it'll be fun to see the actors playing different roles, but that'll all it is. It's not Snow becoming evil, it's Ginnifer Goodwin playing the Evil Queen. It would have been more interesting if they'd done a real AU, like with someone similar to "our Snow", but

1) what if Eva died way earlier before the "be kind to people" lesson?

2) what if, because of that, she had purposefully told Cora about Daniel so he could be eliminated and Regina could be her stepmom?

3) what if, because of that act, Rumple latched on to her as possible caster of the curse?

4) what if, once grown up, she met James and thought he was her true love, but he proved to be the terrible person he was, maybe by hitting on Regina, and then dying, so Snow could start hating Regina?

etc, etc. There are so many ways of doing this in a more interesting way.

[legaleagle53]

Another new script tease from Adam:

 

https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/596339400780328960

 

I'm looking forward to the season finale.  It really does look like someone's whacked-out version of fanfic (it explains why the Author had a thing for Cruella -- he's about as cray-cray as she was!), so I'm just going to roll with it and see how far down the rabbit hole we go.

[RadioGirl27]

That script tease makes no sense, but that's nothing new. So, if Operation Mongoose was about finding the Author to give Regina a happy ending, and they have already found the Author and Regina has decided that she already has her happy ending, why is this absurd thing still going on? Well, I guess the only thing left is for the mongoose to kill the cobra. That way Regina's happiness would be complete.

[legaleagle53]

That script tease makes no sense, but that's nothing new. So, if Operation Mongoose was about finding the Author to give Regina a happy ending, and they have already found the Author and Regina has decided that she already has her happy ending, why is this absurd thing still going on? Well, I guess the only thing left is for the mongoose to kill the cobra. That way Regina's happiness would be complete.

 

Except that Regina is the Cobra -- or at least she originally was.

[BoPeeps]

Hey, Henry needs something to make his presence interesting on the show, and if this is his moment to step into teenhood, then I am behind it. He was a cocky and relentless little kid, and I liked him then. Theyve kept him sucking on the stooopid juice since Neverland, and with Roland's entrance there has been another adorable kid to fawn over.

 

ahem...Let Him Growww, Let him growww. (sorry it was too obnoxiously precious to pass up)

 

Because of the crappy little teasers that A&E always plant in their interviews, I expect that Hook will die in AU and maybe even Emma (is she unconscious in that pic with Rumple Knightskin or dead?) dunno. But I imagine the Author's published dream book Heroes and Villains will have something to do with the return to Storybrooke. And it is Henry's chance to be a hero.

 

Happy Mother's Day this weekend to all those who celebrate Momdom. I will be with half of my kids and probably viewing the finale after the broadcast. But as usual I will be sucking up any spoilers in the meantime. My shallowness embraces any visuals I can get :)

Edited May 7, 2015 by BoPeeps

[FabulousTater]

Well, I guess the only thing left is for the mongoose to kill the cobra. That way Regina's happiness would be complete.

 

Except that Regina is the Cobra -- or at least she originally was.

I don't think so. IA, with RadioGirl27. With Emma's "death" it really is like the mongoose kills the cobra.

 

Henry didn't name his mission to free everyone in Storybrooke from the curse "Operation Cobra" because he thought Regina was a cobra. It was just a silly name he thought of for his "mission". But what Operation Cobra represented was essentially the journey Emma and Henry took together wherein they got to know each other as mother and son and developed such a strong bond that it's what ultimately made Operation Cobra a success and broke Regina's curse.

 

Regina, having known about Operation Cobra, knowing that it represented to Henry a mission where he bonded with Emma and Emma became an important part of Henry's life,  well, Regina names her new mission to get her happy ending, no matter what it may cost anyone else, Operation Mongoose as a petty jab meant to spite Henry and Emma's connection that they developed in Operation Cobra.

 

So ya, if Emma "dies" in the season finale at the end of "Operation Mongoose", and in an episode titled "Operation Mongoose" no less, it really does mean that in a way, the mongoose killed the cobra, just as Regina desired.

Edited May 7, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Serena]

Yup. People were pointing out as soon as the premiere that Mongooses kill Cobras. Most of this show's "foreshadowings" end up as a big fat nothing, so if the season ends with Emma dead (or "dead") then at least this time there's payoff?

[scenicbyway]

I'd like to know how Henry ends up all alone in Storybrooke and then is transported to the EF.  Perhaps he and the author are the only ones left?  Or he and the apprentice?  I think Henry must have a lot of influence getting everyone back to Storybrooke.

 

I still don't think Hook dies in the AU.  Rumple and Belle are missing from the end dagger scene.  Something must happen to Rumple to cause the dagger to go after Regina.

[sharky]

Yup. People were pointing out as soon as the premiere that Mongooses kill Cobras. Most of this show's "foreshadowings" end up as a big fat nothing, so if the season ends with Emma dead (or "dead") then at least this time there's payoff?

There you go! That's how to look at this as the glass is half full. At least there's payoff finally! ;)

 

ETA: From TV Line

 

Any scoop on the Once Upon a Time finale? Please? –Paul

As AA was going to press, Matt Mitovich had juuuuuust cued up Sunday’s two-hour closer, which opens, he says, with perhaps the most Lost-like sequence in the show’s history, as we find out how Isaac came to be an Author. And lest you think the Snow Dark/Bandit Regina/Noble Rumple role-reversal twist is played just for fun, be assured that it’s all part of a rather dark mystery/puzzle that Henry must solve, in what is far and away the lad’s most “-centric”episode to date.

Of for fuck's sake! I was really looking forward to this finale, but it's Henry-centric? I mean, I knew he was going to play a big role but let's hope it's not too big. That being said, the Lost-like sequence sounds intriguing.

 

Question: I have a question concerning Once Upon a Time. Will we ever know what happened between Will Scarlett and Anastasia (The White Queen)? Any chance to see her in the future? —Marine

Ausiello: In the future, yes, there’s a chance. But during this season, which has only Sunday’s two-hour finale remaining, no. “Unfortunately, there was not room to bring Anastasia on this year,” says series co-creator Adam Horowitz. “But hopefully we will in the future, because we’d love to tell that story.”

I think the Anastasia storyline was a casualty of Frozen frankly. I'm assuming it was going to be something that would be addressed in the original 4B -- and would make sense when you tee it up with Will and Belle becoming an item in the original 4A -- but then everything got pushed back a half season because of Frozen. I can't imagine Emma getting tossed into Wonderland considering the failure of OUATIW, but I do wonder if wherever she goes in season 5, she might end up running into Ana there and we have our questions about Will answered at that point.

Edited May 7, 2015 by sharky

[FurryFury]

I was really looking forward to this finale, but it's Henry-centric?

 

And Isaac-centric! So exciting, isn't it?

[YaddaYadda]

Patrick Fischler at least can act.  I don't mean to knock on Jared because he's still just a kid, but I find there's a world of difference between season 1-2 and 3-4.  I don't know if it's because the show insists that he's not a freakin' teenager and wants Henry to stay a child and write him as such or if they've taken this whole heart of the truest believer too far, but 2 hours of Henry is going to be a very long two hours.

 

In any case, I'm pretty sure I bitched a lot after 3x20 aired and I wasn't too sure about the whole 2 hours of the finale last year, but it turned out great (if you love the characters involved) and it just made me wants season 4 all the more because season 3 ended on such a high for me.  I think this is the whole reason I'm trying to be as even handed as I can be in my posting.  God knows, I'm not a silver lining type of girl.  

 

We knew the moment Mongoose was chosen that this wouldn't end well for Emma no matter how much style she thinks the name has.  My poor, idiotic little baby.  I also know that when Emma goes poof, no one will be tearing Regina a new one because everyone will have this kind of new understanding of each other, or at least the people who switched places will.  I'm still holding out hope for Hook, but he's not allowed to talk to Regina, so there's that.

 

Alright!   

[Rumsy4]

Jared did better than I expected as Henry!Pan. But a whole centric episode might be hit or miss.

[FurryFury]

Patrick Fischler at least can act.

 

So can most of the regular cast. Like Ginny and Josh. Doesn't help when they're thrust into storylines that make no sense.

 

don't mean to knock on Jared because he's still just a kid, but I find there's a world of difference between season 1-2 and 3-4.

 

I'd say between seasons 1 and 2-4. Which is when they've made Henry all about Regina at the expense of his own character.

Edited May 7, 2015 by FurryFury

[FabulousTater]

Yep, a Henry centric. It's like getting a pile of dried bull crap for Christmas. You didn't ask for it and you sure as hell never wanted it.

 

It's almost for that reason alone that I don't think I'll be watching the finale. But...I really want to know what happens with Emma and the dagger....but 80 minutes of Henry AND Woegina....can't handle their shit....but Emma and Hook and Dagger.....URGH....I'm conflicted.

GAH! Youtube clips of Emma and the Captain Swan scenes are sure to appear by Monday and there's always recaps, so....youtube clips, recaps win. I don't think I'll be watching the finale.

 

You all enjoy  The Truest Stupid-a-thon. I'll be reading the episode thread though to see how many TVs make it through the finale without having household objects smashed into them.

Edited May 7, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Curio]

You all enjoy that The Truest Stupid-a-thon. I'll be reading the episode thread though to see how many TV's make it through the finale without having household objects smashed into them.

 

And luckily for you, since we're doing a live-episode-thread for the finale, you can comb through the posts and see exactly where certain scenes happen based on the time of each post and know to skip those scenes.

[FurryFury]

I think I'll still watch, Evil Snow and Charming sound like fun, at least.

[FabulousTater]

Of for fuck's sake! I was really looking forward to this finale, but it's Henry-centric?

And Isaac-centric! So exciting, isn't it?

I know, right! Soooo exciting. I just want to cover myself in paper cuts and jump into the Dead Sea! Yippee!

 

 

And luckily for you, since we're doing a live-episode-thread for the finale, you can comb through the posts and see exactly where certain scenes happen based on the time of each post and know to skip those scenes.

#Bless. Bless you and your cows for live watching and taking one for the team. The Tater Cult appreciates your sacrifice. You will be remembered long after your sanity and souls have been sucked out of your bodies by the season finale.

[FurryFury]

Live thread! You bastards, it's 4 AM here when the show airs :( And I'm so not used to watching live. Livestreams are probably low quality and stuff.

Edited May 7, 2015 by FurryFury

[Curio]

“Unfortunately, there was not room to bring Anastasia on this year,” says series co-creator Adam Horowitz. “But hopefully we will in the future, because we’d love to tell that story.”

 

Um, you'd better take that "hopefully" out. You will tell that story in the future. Saying "hopefully" makes it seem like it might happen if you guys feel like ever getting around to it. Nope. Not okay. If Ana's story isn't a big priority, why in the world did you bring Will on in the first place?!

 

Oh, and maybe you would have had time for her if you didn't introduce 6 new villains into this half-season arc. Just saying.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

you'd better take that "hopefully" out

 

Hopefully means they have an 5 minutes of Anastasia planned and are hoping for a nice shiny toy to play with a la Frozen so that they can forgo the whole whatever they have planned for her and Will.  

 

If I'm being completely honest, as someone who hasn't watched Wonderland, I don't really care what happened to her.  And maybe I would have cared if they had done a better job at integrating Will into the show, having him have a significant line here and there as opposed to the Alice in Wonderland book and a torn up picture of the Red Queen from said book.  How does one go from looking heartbroken over a drawing to rebounding straight into the arms of the Dark One's wife I'll never know.

 

I have zero investment in Will or his story at this point.  Because like the Zelena bullshit we got this season, for me, that ship has pretty much sailed.

[KingOfHearts]

 

“Unfortunately, there was not room to bring Anastasia on this year,” says series co-creator Adam Horowitz. “But hopefully we will in the future, because we’d love to tell that story.”

So they had time for Ursula, Cruella, Isaac, Lily, Zelena and eggnappers, but not for a story that explains that presence of a main character? We had time for Goth Maleficent, bad girls night on the town, and a Cherrnobog. Do they hate Wonderland that much? "I know! Instead of explaining a very loose thread that's been sticking out since 4A, let's smash in more guest stars and make Regina barren!" Where is the logic here?

 

I'd rather have Anastasia over what we got out of Scarlet Beauty (or lack thereof) any day.

 

How does one go from looking heartbroken over a drawing to rebounding straight into the arms of the Dark One's wife I'll never know.

Again - they set something up and then totally ignored it. They went for new shiny toys instead of fleshing out what they already had. 4B's life story. 

 

Sneak Peek 2:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/05/07/once-upon-a-time-season-finale-clip-the-author-plans-an-unhappy-ending

 

Henry, Author and Rumple. It appears Henry and the Author are trapped inside the Heroes and Villains book. I despise Hero Henry already.

Edited May 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

My poor precious cupcake Ana :'( A&E don't deserve her! *curls up around her and hisses protectively*

People can say what they want about Wonderland, but it's better than 3b and 4b at least. I rank it probably tied with 3a.

I like the author, so I'm sure I'll like his stuff in the finale.

Edited May 7, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[YaddaYadda]

Sneak peek 2 is so ridiculous I laughed

 

Rumple has light magic (as in Emma's light magic), he's an ogre slayer, he has no clue who Henry is.  Henry brought himself and the Author there.  Last page of the book, if they finish the book, then everything that happened stays as is.

[Amerilla]

Jared must have been happy. Not only a centric, but he gets to do some scenes with Robert. When someone asked Jared at the Paris con this summer what he wanted most for the next season, he mentioned that he wanted to work more with Robert, and they really didn't get much, despite the set-up for Henry working for Gold.

 

I can't hate on Henry OR Jared. Never have been able to. He's stuck in BadWritingVille like everyone else.

[FurryFury]

So, is Henry known as the Truest Stupid by the other parts of the fandom or has somebody from here been commenting on that TVLine spoiler article? :)

[Curio]

I have to say, I'm actually enjoying Isaac in more of a villainous role. I wish he and this alternate universe stuff would have been the main focus of 4B...

[YaddaYadda]

I have to say, I'm actually enjoying Isaac in more of a villainous role. I wish he and this alternate universe stuff would have been the main focus of 4B...

 

It makes no sense to build a whole season around the author this and the author that and have him show up late in the game.  I think I could have done with half of the back half as an AU of sorts, but I think the writers would have run out of gas by the time they got to the second episode.

 

The Author as the main character for 6 episodes writing and re-writing the stories of the main characters might've been kind of cool.  

[Curio]

The Author as the main character for 6 episodes writing and re-writing the stories of the main characters might've been kind of cool.  

 

6-8 episodes would have been the perfect length for an AU arc. One alternate universe episode for each main character, and then 1-2 episodes to do a big finale to wrap it up and get back to Storybrooke. And then we could have saved Maleficent, Cruella, Ursula, and Lily for Season 5 when they inevitably run out of more ideas.

[RadioGirl27]

I've never been more grateful for not watching live. An Isaac/Henry centric with lots of Rumple and Regina and almost no Hook? Ugh.

 

 

“Unfortunately, there was not room to bring Anastasia on this year,” says series co-creator Adam Horowitz. “But hopefully we will in the future, because we’d love to tell that story.”

That "hopefully" means probably never. This is like Hook's childhood. The fans keep asking for it, but A&E doesn't care. Why are they going to give us something new about some regular characters when they can give us another pointless Regina's flashback?

[YaddaYadda]

Regina/Robin/Zelena (since they insisted in making her pregnant) for one episode where they could have interacted with people from Oz since they're bringing back the sisterhood of the boobage, plus Robin has been there.

Emma/Hook interact with other pirates since the EF is basically his world.

David/Mary Margaret

Rumple/Belle

 

Henry running around trying to fix the mess in these episodes and then everyone converging to the same place minus Rumple since this is clearly his fanfiction and trying to fix things, two episodes.  Everyone would have gotten their fill of the characters they like and the couples they like.

[kili]

Last page of the book, if they finish the book, then everything that happened stays as is.

 

The last page of the previous book finished, so why doesn't everything in that book stay true? The Author re-wrote everything, so it can be re-written again.

 

Did the author not remember that the "OgreSlayer" rescued the village? That kind of mucks up his plan to get Henry killed. And all the villagers just hide in their houses and do nothing to rescue the boy tied to the cart? I know an ogre attack is imminent, but he's going to crush through those houses anyway. Was Henry left by them as tribute?

 

Why is this ogre dressed so much more nicely than the previous Ogre we met? Is he from a more fashionable grouping? He is just as stupid. Why kill your victim when you can just scream in their face until somebody else kills you?

 

The Rumple fanfic is ridiculous. Dude does not know subtle.

[mjgchick]

So Rumple's basically a Mary Sue? Rumple wanting to be some knight is not what I expected from him but maybe it has to do with how he wants Belle to see him as.

[Curio]

Regina/Robin/Zelena (since they insisted in making her pregnant) for one episode where they could have interacted with people from Oz since they're bringing back the sisterhood of the boobage, plus Robin has been there.

Emma/Hook interact with other pirates since the EF is basically his world.

David/Mary Margaret

Rumple/Belle

 

Henry running around trying to fix the mess in these episodes and then everyone converging to the same place minus Rumple since this is clearly his fanfiction and trying to fix things, two episodes.  Everyone would have gotten their fill of the characters they like and the couples they like.

 

Someone, quick...write the fanfic!

[Souris]

So Rumple's basically a Mary Sue? Rumple wanting to be some knight is not what I expected from him but maybe it has to do with how he wants Belle to see him as.

 

I dub him Rumple-Sue-ltskin.

[YaddaYadda]

So Rumple's basically a Mary Sue? Rumple wanting to be some knight is not what I expected from him but maybe it has to do with how he wants Belle to see him as.

 

But see, that's the thing, Rumple might be a hero, but he's still a fucking coward.  You know why?  Because he's not embracing being a knight hero a la David when he went in the slay the dragon.  No, this Rumple uses light magic to slay the ogre.  He's not using a sword or a lance or even a fucking arrow like Snow did back in season 2.  Nope, he's using magic.

 

Magic is still his crutch.  Rumple still a coward in disguise.

 

And Belle?  I'd rather not talk about Belle.  Rumple sucked all the personality out of her.

Edited May 7, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[HoodlumSheep]

It's interesting how Isaac said that None of the heroes are going to get happy endings in his book. Which makes me like the Author even more. He's a smart cookie. If Rumple, Regina, Zelena, etc. are now heroes, that means they're all going to get screwed over (or at least that's supposed to happen). So, all these villains clamoring for happy endings (which probably flips them to the hero side) have unknowingly signed their own death warrant (or non-happy ending warrant).

Also, all the heroes who turned into villains are stuck with their miserable lives. So the author has managed to screw pretty much everyone over.

Edited May 7, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[RadioGirl27]

I'm weak and I've seen the sneak peek, and Jared really can't act. This AU is the Shattered Sight spell 2.0, something that could have been cool but instead they have decided to transform it into a bad comedy.

Anyway, we already know how they are going to leave the book, getting one of the heroes his/her happy ending. Who am I kidding? Getting Regina her happy ending.

Edited May 7, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[kili]

Rumple wanting to be some knight is not what I expected from him but maybe it has to do with how he wants Belle to see him as.

 

It's actually kind of consistent. When he was drafted into the ogre wars, he was very excited. He was going to prove to the world that he was not like his father.  But when he gets to the front, he finds his romantic visions of war to be unfounded. He is to be ogre fodder and likely to die there. After a few prophecies and a self-hobbling, his life gets worse. His wife hates him for being a coward and he becomes the town outcast.  This all eventually drives him to make the decision to become the dark one.

 

So, it is not really surprising that he returns to that turning point in his life. What if he really did become the hero of the day slaying ogres? That guy he dreamt of becoming? The hero that everybody worships?

 

Magic is still his crutch.  Rumple still a coward in disguise.

 

Yep.

[YaddaYadda]

hypable article

[Serena]

Also why on earth did Rumple not question Henry's very strange clothing? If red leather jackets are never in fashion in the EF, I highly doubt hoodies would be...

He's a hero now, he must be dumb.

 

Are we going to get a sob story about how the author was screwed over by heroes? Because I understand about him wanting to write a "more interesting" story, but now he's saying he wants the heroes to suffer. What did they ever do to him?

 

Matt from TVLine saw the finale, I wonder if they sent it to a few more reporters? They've never sent a finale for review yet, they must really be confident in it.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Serena

[ParadoxLost]

The loud tolling of bells has to be the ringing of bells on Robin's marriage to Zelena.  So mission is to stop the wedding to free everyone from the book.

[Rumsy4]

After seeing that Sneak Peak, I'm... rendered speechless that A&E structured an entire finale with Henry as the main player. I hope I won't cringe too much watching Jared act. Sorry, kid!

Rumple looks soooo fake. Which is kinda the point I guess. Light magic... LMAO! I don't buy he doesn't recognize Henry.

[KAOS Agent]

"I'd love the finale to be one big Henry-centric. That would be a awesome!" said no one ever. This finale is getting less and less interesting for me the more about it that I read. One thing I've noticed about Jared's acting is that his style has remained the same. Unfortunately for him, what worked really well and was great as a 10 year old does not work for a 14 year old. It's not the writing (though that doesn't help), it's that little kids move and react one way but that changes as we age and Jared has not made that adjustment to make it believable.

Edited May 7, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Curio]

It also doesn't help that he's going through puberty and his voice is changing. The poor kid has to scream "help" and it sounds like he's bored.

[Rumsy4]

This only reiterates my belief that A&E fit characters and plots around their "cool" ideas, without much reference to suitability. 

 

No, but seriously. These writers have seen Jared's acting range. Why would anyone make him do the heavy lifting? Especially after not giving him much to do all season? Jared hasn't even had a chance to flex his acting chops this year. He can't go from 1 to 100 in the final episode of the season.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Curio]

Okay, speculation time.

 

"While the creators remain tight lipped on the details of their connection in the new Enchanted Forest, they confirm that Hook and Emma’s stories will intertwine."

 

So we kind of know the general plot of the finale now—Henry has to give one of the good guys their happy ending to stop Isaac's AU plot. What if Emma and Hook somehow accidentally meet up because of Henry's meddling, and since they're True Loves/each others happy ending, that freaks Isaac out and has to kill off Hook before they rekindle their relationship before the bells toll. Which is why we have a bigger focus on Plan B (no, not that one...although Zelena really should look into it), which is reuniting Regina and Robin and crashing the wedding.

 

Goddamnit, I'm raising my expectations too high. Where's that "lower your expectations" gif when you need it...

Edited May 8, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

What I'm getting is that everyone has their own stories independent of each other before they all start bumping into each other.  But seriously though, just give me pirate!Emma.