Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Souris]

I have to think back to that BTS special where Adam says, "And Hook dies in Act One." I think that wasn't actually a joke, it was them plotting out Ep 2 of the finale. So he'll be "dead" for most of the second ep until they get back to SB.

[mjgchick]

I will be sad if that pretty man is not dominant in the second half.

[Souris]

I will be sad if that pretty man is not dominant in the second half.

 

That sounds like all of 4B!

 

Why all the promo pics of the Author? Does anybody REALLY care about him in his ABC office?

[pezgirl7]

Someone mentioned that Emma was using Hook's sword from the promo, but I checked, and it's not the same; the guard is different. If Hook is dead for most of the AU, I will be very pissed.

[Rumsy4]

Some more clarification about the spoilers from scribblecat's tumblr. 

 

Apparently, Hook is not rescuing Emma in that swordfight scene with Charming (boo!), but it's something exciting nevertheless. 

 

Yes and no. I’ll answer as best I can because this is going to be the most we can say about it, even after it airs. Yep we saw that scene of Hook with his sword, but it’s not quite him rescuing Emma from the tower, it’s something else but equally awesome and that’s why we were so excited, and come Sunday I can’t wait to see it all play out!

 

And Emma and Killian do share a scene when she is wearing the blue outfit (who knows if it makes it in the final cut).

 

On the days filming where all those spoilers photos came from? No. But they did have scenes together where Emma is wearing that outfit, just not out in the forest.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Rumsy4

[ParadoxLost]

If Hook dies in the AU, that explains why Emma runs off so fast after Robin avoids stepping on her and hugging Henry.  Upside of Hook dying is the reunion when things are set back to rights. 

[Souris]

If Hook dies in the AU, that explains why Emma runs off so fast after Robin avoids stepping on her and hugging Henry.  Upside of Hook dying is the reunion when things are set back to rights.

Maybe this one will be 27 seconds!

[scenicbyway]

I've seen observations made that she's wearing Graham's shoelace in her hair and using Hook's sword.  I don't think they can actually kill off Hook in "Heroes and Villians" because we know he's alive in Storybrooke after everyone comes back.  He could get captured or something but I don't think he'd actually get killed off.   It does look like it's going to be a Regina/Emma buddy adventure.

 

I wonder how much time they'll spend on the Robin/Zelena aka Charming/Abigail wedding.  Since we've seen this idea a couple of times at this point (including last season's finale) I'm hoping they won't dwell on the idea.  Obviously, bandit Regina makes an appearance.  I do like that they've made Regina a bandit, since she's not really good or evil at this stage. 

 

My favorite thing so far is Emma's bandit outfit.  I like the femininity of her blouse with the vest and belt.  The navy blue is beautiful too.  I do wonder if we'll see her in a pirate outfit, there's a concept drawing out there somewhere of Emma in a female version of the coat Captain Hook wears.  I wonder if Emma locked in the tower actually happens after she takes the dagger?  In the photo from the composer, Emma's hair looked strawberry blonde, in the crazy hair, dress picture.

 

I'm not really interested in the Author's work at ABC.  My guess is that he pitches "Heroes and Villians" in the 60's and it doesn't get picked up...

[kili]

Benjamin Wilkinson is credited on some of those photos. He played the "White Knight" in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland.

 

Relevant? Or just a local actor getting more work?

[pezgirl7]

Why do people think he's at ABC? I think it's pretty clear that he's a TV/radio sales man in the 50's, at Christmas time. There were only a few channels back then, so showing the ABC logo on the tv makes sense. It's not like they would show the NBC logo! Looks like he's happy to get a letter, so I'm thinking he's gotten a publishing deal for his Heroes and Villains book that Henry is holding.

[Souris]

Emma is unconscious in one pic. Also, the detail on her glove is both a swan and a hook.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Souris

[retrograde]

Did I miss something? Why does everyone think Hook will die in the AU?

[Curio]

Did I miss something? Why does everyone think Hook will die in the AU?

 

Probably lowering our expectations so that we're actually excited when he shows up for only 2 minutes.

[Souris]

We know there's a temporary death, and since it's Rumple's AU, he'd want Killian either dead or suffering. Plus Adam trolled in one interview about Hook, "if he survives…."

[Shanna Marie]

We know there's a temporary death, and since it's Rumple's AU, he'd want Killian either dead or suffering. Plus Adam trolled in one interview about Hook, "if he survives…."

Also, there seemed to be a fair amount of foreshadowing in the first half of the season that Hook was going to have a death/presumed death/temporary death, and since there was no reaction to Rumple nearly crushing his heart, it didn't seem like that had been paid off yet. Not that there's any guarantee of payoff on this show ...

 

And now there's a surprising lack of appearance of Hook in the AU in promo materials and Emma seems rather distressed.

 

But yeah, mostly lowering expectations, because I'm afraid that if I have any hopes of any kind of fun pirate/bandit Emma and AU Hook having adventures together episode, a la season 3's finale, I'm going to be disappointed. If he barely shows up for a brief sword fight, then dies dramatically and Emma actually gets to react to that and to seeing him alive again and he gets more than 2 minutes of screen time, it'll be a pleasant surprise.

[scenicbyway]

Couldn't it be Rumple dying in the AU?  We don't see him back in Storybrooke with the whole dagger scene.

[retrograde]

Ah ok. I wasn't reading too much into lack of photos for Hook -- that stuff often seems to be pretty random on which day/s the ABC photographer shows up to set -- but you guys make good points about the temporary death. Though I thought the writers had implied that the same person is both permanently and temporarily dead in some twisty way? Or was that just us reading into what they were saying?

[Watt]

Hook dying would finally pay off the "Emma fighting for Hook" promise, anyway.

[Souris]

Ah ok. I wasn't reading too much into lack of photos for Hook -- that stuff often seems to be pretty random on which day/s the ABC photographer shows up to set -- but you guys make good points about the temporary death. Though I thought the writers had implied that the same person is both permanently and temporarily dead in some twisty way? Or was that just us reading into what they were saying?

 

I thought they meant two separate deaths -- one permanent, one temporary -- but the way it was worded, I could see it being either way.

[Shanna Marie]

Have there been any hints about whether or not Rumple will be back? It really does seem like they're coming to an end of the line with him, where it would stretch credibility even more than usual for him to be able to remain as a regular character. The Dark One seems to be all that's keeping his body alive, and his heart is on the way out. Fixing the AU where he's a hero may or may not ruin any fix he gets, unless it just de-darkens his heart a bit. But then there's the speculation that Emma has to absorb the Dark One juice to save them all. So what happens to Rumple? It's already a bit silly that he's just hanging out in Granny's and being normal after everything he's done.

[Souris]

All we know is that Robert finished filming a couple days before everyone else, though a couple of set regulars said he will be back in S5. They could be lying or misinformed. Or it's possible he could back only for flashbacks or as some weird spectral Obi-Wan DarkOneobi to counsel new Dark One Emma.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Souris

[Selina K]

Sigh. The promo had me excited for fun Hook in black velvet and crazy Emma in the tower. Now the promo pics have me considerably less excited for Emma Regina buddy movie and dead Hook. Hopefully I am now at some kind of happy medium of lowering my expectations.

I can see A&E giggling to themselves by throwing out the Emma 'discovers how she feels about Hook' because she spends 2 hours thinking he is dead, so we get 27 seconds of payoff before Emma poofs away because dagger. Ugh, where did these people learn about love? That would make Henry and Hook that she can only confess to loving after thinking they died, Neal as she thought he was dying and Snow kind of after Emma thought she was immolated by Regina - no I love you there, but the recognition of home = family. That's a lot of death prompted love.

[MMR]

So i was right about Zelena & Robin wedding! I hope I'm also right about Hook minimal screen time!

[FurryFury]

or as some weird spectral Obi-Wan DarkOneobi to counsel new Dark One Emma.

 

I would not mind it, could work for half a season (and then send him away like those Force Spirits in SW). 

[kili]

The Dark One seems to be all that's keeping his body alive, and his heart is on the way out. Fixing the AU where he's a hero may or may not ruin any fix he gets, unless it just de-darkens his heart a bit.

 

Sadly, there is precedent to resolve that. Let's say that Rumple dies because his heart turns to complete charcoal. That could release the Dark One inside him that Emma has to absorb, but they can still save Rumple. He and Belle are true love, so simply split her very red heart in half. Badabing...Rumple is cured of his curse and gets a shiny new heart. Next year we explore how much he misses or doesn't miss his powers.

[YaddaYadda]

It seems the finale will have Zelena's sisters in boobies.  One of the actresses who played one of the good witches of Oz is back at least.

 

ETA - 

 

So if they're giving Regina Snow's story in the AU and vice versa, does that mean Regina will be cursed like Snow was?  Robin and Zelena's marriage is basically David going through with his marriage to Abigail if Emma and Hook hadn't set the timeline right after they fudged it up.  Actually, I can't remember for the life of me if David and Abigail ever made it to the altar.  So if someone wants to clue me in, that'd be very awesome.  If Regina is cursed and put under, we all know what's going to happen.

Edited May 5, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

Sigh. The promo had me excited for fun Hook in black velvet and crazy Emma in the tower. Now the promo pics have me considerably less excited for Emma Regina buddy movie and dead Hook. Hopefully I am now at some kind of happy medium of lowering my expectations.

 

Right? Maybe I shouldn't have come back into this thread after all. I mean, how many fucking buddy adventures do Emma and Regina need this season? They've already been paired off in Breaking Glass, Darkness at the Edge of Town, Enter the Dragon, and the big road trip in Lily. Stop beating the friendship horse to death. They're more interesting as frenemies. Why can't the show explore the other relationships Emma has on this show? I'd much rather see Emma interacting with her son who's been neglecting her all season, her parents, Belle, Will, hell—I'd take Pongo at this point. (I was going to include Hook on that list, but I've already resigned myself to the fact that they'll only interact for at most a minute or two of screen time before Emma makes her big sacrifice. Hey, newsflash writers: huge emotional goodbye scenes like Emma giving herself up with the dagger will pack a bigger emotional punch if you had actually let her interact with the person she's saying goodbye to for more than 5 minutes of screentime the entire half season.)

[RadioGirl27]

For a short moment yesterday, I let myself to be excited about the finale, but those promo pics have killed my excitment. Those pics seem to be all from the same few scenes, so maybe Emma and Regina are sharing just that scene when they fight Rumple, but I have the feeling the finale is going to be a Swan Queen/Rumbelle fanfiction with almost no Hook (I guess he would be dead or mostly dead, if they keep The Princess Bride references, since the beginning of the AU) and lots of Henry.

[YaddaYadda]

I know the moto around here is to keep our expectations very low and be surprised in a terrible way or in a great way.  The way I see it, Regina and Emma are the ones with the magic so they do have to work side by side if they have a chance at getting back to their lives.  I am however getting the impression that CS will be the ones to rise to the occasion in the end, but we'll see.

 

I'm curious as to why the Author is in the AU with Snowing.  That is a little weird.  And Emma is dressed like Hook, I'm not going to complain about that.  I wonder how many sneak peeks will be released this week.  I think they released 4 last year for the finale.

[retrograde]

First sneak. This is so great.

[kili]

Actually, I can't remember for the life of me if David and Abigail ever made it to the altar.  So if someone wants to clue me in, that'd be very awesome.

 

Nope. Charles and Leia crashed the engagement party, Leia ended up with David's mother's ring and David thought Snow had it. They spent the rest of the episode getting the ring back and everything was back on track for true love between Snow/David when we left off. No marriage between David and Abigail.

 

The way I see it, Regina and Emma are the ones with the magic so they do have to work side by side if they have a chance at getting back to their lives.

 

Does Regina have magic? She's supposed to be Bandit Snow while Snow is the magical Evil Queen. Why would Regina retain her magic when Snow has suddenly been granted it?

 

How does Snow ordering Charming around work exactly? They share a heart. Wouldn't ripping out his heart and whispering into it cause her to have to do the same thing?  Or did the Author write the continuity fairy out of her role (not like she was doing much anyway)?

[YaddaYadda]

First sneak. This is so great.

I have to say, I got a kick out of this.  Snow and James who is basically her Daniel?

 

I've sort of been wondering when Regina would let go of the whole Snow is at fault for Daniel's death because she couldn't keep a secret because she was really manipulated into telling by Cora...

 

I'm assuming the boy is Henry and David's portrayal as a dumb-dumb is always consistent.

 

How does Snow ordering Charming around work exactly? They share a heart. Wouldn't ripping out his heart and whispering into it cause her to have to do the same thing?  Or did the Author write the continuity fairy out of her role (not like she was doing much anyway)?

 

It's an AU where Regina is Snow's victim, so I'd just go with it or migraines ahoy!

Edited May 5, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[kili]

I have to say, I got a kick out of this.  Snow and James who is basically her Daniel?

 

Some major ret-conning going on here. Regina says that she was just a child when she betrayed Snow, but Regina is several years older. Does that mean Snow and James were true loves at the age of 5? I suppose that Eva plays the role of Cora. How do five year old James and Snow meet up exactly? Is he still King George's adopted son or does she fall in love with one of the shepherding twins? Cora wanted Regina to marry well so that she could one day rule a kingdom. Why does Eva care? Snow is going to rule anyway whether she marries Prince James or Pauper James.

 

So, Snow and Charming are not true loves in this world? But presumably Regina and Robin still will be. I guess Regina's and Robin's love is more truer. Sigh.

 

I'd actually prefer TL Charming being dead and James being Snow's unloved sex slave.

 

It's an AU where Regina is Snow's victim, so I'd just go with it or migraines ahoy!

 

Duly noted. I think I better make sure I do a run to the liquor store before Sunday.

[retrograde]

Some major ret-conning going on here. 

In fairness, I'm pretty sure ret-conning is literally the premise of the episode.

[Curio]

Is it too much to hope for a scene where Regina actually apologizes to Snow in Storybrooke when this is all over because she finally recognizes how much misery she put bandit Snow through?

 

Also, can we please have guyliner Charming all the time? Please and thank you.

[kili]

In fairness, I'm pretty sure ret-conning is literally the premise of the episode.

 

True, but it looks like even the relative ages are even up for grabs.

 

Isaac is a really bad fan-fiction writer. All he is doing is flipping their relative positions and having different people do the same thing. Couldn't he come up with another factor to the betrayal other than Regina being a child? Regina was tricked by a shape-shifting Eva?

 

I'm sorry, Isaac, you are a hack.

 

And the Apprentice is a moron if he picked an Author who likes to go off script and prefers villains over heroes. The Apprentice got exactly what he deserved.

[Curio]

I'm sorry, Isaac, you are a hack.

 

Well, he is the real Once writers' self-insert character...

[YaddaYadda]

But I mean in this, is Emma even going to be Snow's daughter?  I mean just from this sneak peek, Snow seems to have a lot of contempt for him and deems him weak and dumb.  So, there's no way Emma is his kid, I guess she could be Snow's love child with James, but again, it might not even fit with the AU because Emma and Snow are practically the same age.

 

And James was a prince, so maybe he was killed because his true parentage was found out?  Was he still the son of farmers?  Rumple is the one who arranged for that adoption, so what's up with that?

 

I don't think Emma is Snow's daughter, but I can see them being sisters.  She would be to Snow what Zelena is/was to Regina.  Zelena had a loving mother and a father who did not understand her magic.  Emma could still have good magic in her, be the good sister which would make her a threat to Evil Snow and that's why she's shackled in that tower looking all kinds of crazy.  That tends to happen to people who have no contact with the outside world and are mistreated.  

[Rumsy4]

I must say I really enjoyed this Sneak Peek. 

 

In fairness, I'm pretty sure ret-conning is literally the premise of the episode.

 

Exactly. I wouldn't worry about the details. It's like a Crack!Fic. It doesn't have to make sense. Or at least, we don't have to worry about headcanons to make sense of anything.

 

Is it too much to hope for a scene where Regina actually apologizes to Snow in Storybrooke when this is all over because she finally recognizes how much misery she put bandit Snow through?

 

It is probably still too much to hope for, IMO. Once the AU is fixed, Regina will never let it go, and Snow will spend all of Season 5 apologizing for it,

[HoodlumSheep]

Yay!!! Good first sneak peek! With this being an AU, I think they are allowed to twist whatever they want, because it's an AU. Things don't have to make sense (even though this whole season has already made no sense).

And if worst comes to shove, we can just claim Isaac writes horrible fan fiction.

I wonder if seeing Snow flipped will make some people realize how awful Regina was in the EF. But knowing our luck, people will use this as an excuse to hate Snow even more instead of sympathize with her with all the crap she and everyone else had to be put through.

[Curio]

I'm still trying to figure out how Emma goes from the normal-looking, Charming-esque wardrobe to the dress/robe she's wearing in the tower. Maybe Snow arrests her because the queen is the only person in the land who's allowed to use magic? But it still doesn't really explain why Emma's going mentally insane in that scene. Something has to happen between the Emma/Rumple sword confrontation and the tower where Emma just snaps. Will the author do more meddling within the alternate universe if he doesn't like how things are going?

 

I have to give it up for the show, though. This is the first time in months that I'm actually really intrigued about an episode.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Curio

[kili]

That tends to happen to people who have no contact with the outside world and are mistreated.

 

Not on this show. Belle spent 30 years in solitary and came out as sane as she went in.  Neal and Hook spent hundreds of years being tormented by Mr. Mind Games and they seem relatively normal. Heck, Wendy appears to have spent a hundred years confined to a cage she could not even stand up in and she has nary a problem.

 

Who knows..the world they live in is so crazy, maybe solitary is a welcome relief.

 

I wonder if seeing Snow flipped will make some people realize how awful Regina was in the EF. But knowing our luck, people will use this as an excuse to hate Snow even more instead of sympathize with her with all the crap she and everyone else had to be put through.

 

That is totally what is going to happen. They are going to point to all the crap that Snow did and use it to dismiss everything Regina did. "If Snow had been raised like Regina, she would be exactly the same." Except she wasn't raised like Regina, so Snow is totally responsible for killing Cora, being mean to Regina and the egg thing. So, Snow is actually way worse than Regina.

[RadioGirl27]

Is it too much to hope for a scene where Regina actually apologizes to Snow in Storybrooke when this is all over because she finally recognizes how much misery she put bandit Snow through?

 

Also, can we please have guyliner Charming all the time? Please and thank you.

Nah, we would have Snow apologizing to Regina for being such a pain in the ass and not the other way round. But a big yes to your request of more guyliner Charming.

 

I don't think Emma is Snow's daughter, but I can see them being sisters.  She would be to Snow what Zelena is/was to Regina.

Yeah, Emma would be Snow's Zelena. So we have Regina as Snow, Snow as Regina, Charming as Graham, Robin as Charming, Zelena as Abigail and Emma as Zelena, Rumple is a knight and Belle is still his love. Hook is the odd one. I think that's why they are going to kill him, because they don't know what to do with him.

Edited May 5, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Amerilla]

An AU can't be retconning, since there's temporarily no con to ret.

 

 

 

Have there been any hints about whether or not Rumple will be back? It really does seem like they're coming to an end of the line with him, where it would stretch credibility even more than usual for him to be able to remain as a regular character.

 

It dosen't seem like RC is going anywhere until end of S5. That said, Carlyle does have his directorial debut premiering on the film festival circuit starting next month, and I can see him wanting a reduced schedule for the 5a filming period so he can promote the film for release.

 

It's plausible to me that this season will end with a TLK from Belle reverting him to his pre-Dark One personality for 5a or beyond, simply because it would take him out of the main action for a while. That doesn't preclude him being re-Dark'ed in 5b as a way to, for instance, un-Dark Emma, if that's the way the story goes.

 

That's speculation based on absolutely nothing, other than the new film, the fact that Carlyle has been mostly phoning it in for the better part of two seasons, and that nothing minimizes a character on this show more than being reduced from "villain" status.

 

 

 

These actors wearing other characters' outfits isn't working for me. Robert Carlyle doesn't work as well as the much bigger & taller Josh Dallas in that outfit and Ginny is dwarfed by that Evil Queen outfit which is odd since Lana is actually shorter than Ginny and she never seems overwhelmed by her costumes.

 

I read that as the Costuming department being better writers than the writers - since all of these are false/alternate personas, Rumpel and Snow should look a little out of place in outfits that relate to personas that don't fit them. (They did this in the flashback in 'Manhattan' as well - Rumpel's soldier uniform was practically swallowing him, while everyone around him looked relatively tailored.)

 

I like that they did a shout-out to Carlyle's vision that Charming is Rumpel's ideal vision of the man he would want to be.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Amerilla

[YaddaYadda]

Emma would be Snow's Zelena.

 

Basically.

 

And Snow is making the same mistakes Regina made which was choosing revenge over the guy who is standing right there in front of her.  Regina didn't go in the tavern, Snow has David (who is still apparently Charming in the AU) and she literally doesn't see him.

[RadioGirl27]

From ET: 'Once Upon a Time' Romance Rundown: Is True Love's Kiss Coming in the Season 4 Finale?!

 

There is nothing new there, but I'm quite sure we are getting a TLK or similar in the finale. I don't know if it would be Rumbelle, Outlaw Queen or Captain Swan, but something is going to happen.

[Rumsy4]

Didn't thet say there is not going to be a True Love's kiss in the finale?

From the article:

Kitsis added, "We're going to get real insight into why Rumple has behaved the way that he has."

Something to excuse all his selfish and cruel actions all season long?

[FurryFury]

I'd actually prefer TL Charming being dead and James being Snow's unloved sex slave.

 

Maybe in this AU, the boys were switched, so David grew up as James and James as David. But that's unlikely, I suppose - the writers probably just wanted to get David on screen, not James.

 

Anyway, Josh is so much hotter when evil! 

[Curio]

"Captain Swan are going to be tested like always," Kitsis confessed.

 

What is this "always" you speak of? I think the word you're looking for is "occasionally" or "sporadically."

 

"[snow and Charming] did a bad thing and they have to pay for it," Kitsis teased.

 

Haven't they paid enough already? Will they finally be relieved of their egg baby guilt when Emma sacrifices herself and they're forced to lose their daughter for a third time?

Edited May 5, 2015 by Curio

[scenicbyway]

They said there would be no "curse-breaking" true love kiss in the finale.  But that there would be kissing and their may be effects from that which we've never seen.  To me this just says there will be kissing.  So, no Belle-Rumple kiss to save him.  I would guess we'll get a Captain Swan kiss and then maybe an I love you from Emma before she's sucked away by the dagger.

 

I'm annoyed at all the buddy cop stuff with Regina and Emma, but it does make sense if you take the whole season into account.  Emma was trying to be BFF's with Regina starting in the Frozen arc, now we'll see the ultimate act of friendship when she saves Regina from the dagger (so that she can have her stupid happy ending with Robin?!) and takes it on herself. 

 

I guess I'd like to know when Emma will get to have a happy ending.  By the way new people are constantly coming to town she'll never get hers because she'll always have to work for everyone else's.