Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[RadioGirl27]

But it's also typical of them to fail to put in sufficient clues in order to protect their surprise twist. 

Yeah. They love their surprise twists. Look at Zelena/Marian. There weren't any clues in the first half to make people doubt Marian, and here we are. They can always say" look how affectionate Hook and Emma are, of course they are doing it". And they can make Walsh the father to add more angst between Hook and Emma. But I seriously doubt Emma is pregnant. If someone ends up pregnant, it would be Belle (it would be the perfect excuse to keep Rumple on the show after everything he has done this season).

Per the director's twitter, Operation Mongoose 1 is the Author's origin story.

 

 

@nala87 @PFischler @HookSwanEndGame it was a good episode! I directed The author's origin story.. Part one of the 2 hour season finale!!!

Edited April 23, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Serena]

Ugh, who cares about the author's origin? I was hoping for a concept episode like 321/322. Even if there's more Regina in it, at least it would be a break from the current storyline.

[RadioGirl27]

Sneak peek 1 from E Online: Regina Telling Emma "I Need You" in This Once Upon a Time Sneak Peek Is Giving Us Life!

 

I can't watch it (and I don't want to), but, wow, the queerbaiting seems to be off the charts here.

Edited April 23, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

It goes something like "I need you because you lived in NYC and I barely left SB."

[FabulousTater]

About that sneak peek: ...I'm just gonna ignore the absurd "friendship" between Emma and Regina that you couldn't make me buy if you printed it out and wrapped it around Chris Evans.

 

What's funny about that sneak peek is that Regina tells Emma that "You have to find this girl to redeem your parents". What the hell?! No, that's not how redemption works. Emma can't redeem her parents and even if she could that shouldn't be her responsiblity either. Those sanctimonious jerkwads need to redeem themselves....but I guess they can't do that though if they don't regret what they did to begin with. Oh wait, it seemed to work for Regina so why not Snowing.

 

....*grumble, grumble*...This. Show.

[Rumsy4]

Maybe it's because Snowing can't leave Storybrooke with just half a heart?

[mjgchick]

This show treats Emma like some slave. She is not responsible for these people's mistakes. What type of message is this show trying to say? Is Hook the only person not Emma who actually fixes their mistakes on this show? JFC. Neither Regina or Rimple want real redemption. The only difference is Rumple doesn't have the Charmings kissing his ass every other minute.

[scenicbyway]

It goes something like "I need you because you lived in NYC and I barely left SB."

And whose fault is that Regina?  So basically she's just using Emma to pick up Robin.  Nice friendship.  Here's a question...why can't Hook go along as well?  He's been to NYC before.  OR why not make it a Mother/Son roadtrip--Henry's lived in NYC before and been to Neal's apartment.  Maybe he'd like to get a few of his dad's things--like that Hatters sign for his room or something.

 

About that sneak peek: ...I'm just gonna ignore the absurd "friendship" between Emma and Regina that you couldn't make me buy if you printed it out and wrapped it around Chris Evans.

 

What's funny about that sneak peek is that Regina tells Emma that "You have to find this girl to redeem your parents". What the hell?! No, that's not how redemption works. Emma can't redeem her parents and even if she could that shouldn't be her responsiblity either. Those sanctimonious jerkwads need to redeem themselves....but I guess they can't do that though if they don't regret what they did to begin with. Oh wait, it seemed to work for Regina so why not Snowing.

 

....*grumble, grumble*...This. Show.

Yes, why is Emma taking it upon herself to go find Lily?  Why aren't Charming and Snow loading up the truck or wooden wagon to go find Lily?  Heck, why isn't Maleficent on the road trip?  She's her mother!

 

There's no reason for Regina and Emma to suddenly be best friends.  Regina wanted nothing to do with her even in 4a.  Now that she needs Robin back, suddenly she needs Emma's expertise in NYC?  Ugh.   Also, Lily and Emma were friends for an AFTERNOON!  How could their incredibly short time together have been that momentous for Emma?  I guess Lily did introduce her to a life of crime...

 

I still find it hard to believe that a pretty child like Emma would've had a hard time finding a permanent home, let alone friends.

[Selina K]

Sneak peek 1 from E Online: Regina Telling Emma "I Need You" in This Once Upon a Time Sneak Peek Is Giving Us Life!

 

I can't watch it (and I don't want to), but, wow, the queerbaiting seems to be off the charts here.

 

I feel the specter of my 11th grade English teacher leaning over my shoulder and whispering, "characterization, remember characterization."

 

I need to stop anticipating sneak peeks because lately they have just been nausea inducing rather than whetting my appetite for the show.  I feel like even Lana isn't bought in to this Emma / Regina friendship.  Her 'how about it Swan' was very oddly done.  I'm hoping they somehow establish Lily is in fact in NYC because needing to rescue two people somewhere in the United States hardly means you're heading in the same direction.

 

I did kind of like Regina's summation of 'we make our own mistakes, but the master plan is also in place' if only because yay, finally acknowledging the fact that the author storyline goes completely against the 'evil is made' mantra.  Even just owning the duality there shows some progression for this show.

[MaiLuna]

It is a bit queerbaiting but at least Regina is actually being nice to Emma and Emma is not kissing Regina's ass for once so I'll take what I can get.

 

 

I still find it hard to believe that a pretty child like Emma would've had a hard time finding a permanent home, let alone friends.

Yes, she was smart, pretty and kind. It doesn't make sense.

Edited April 23, 2015 by MaiLuna

[YaddaYadda]

Can I blacklist words, like queerbaiting?  If I never see this word again, it won't be too soon.

 

Maybe it's because Snowing can't leave Storybrooke with just half a heart?

Half a heart, half a brain...

 

And whose fault is that Regina?  So basically she's just using Emma to pick up Robin.  Nice friendship.  Here's a question...why can't Hook go along as well?  He's been to NYC before.  OR why not make it a Mother/Son roadtrip--Henry's lived in NYC before and been to Neal's apartment.  Maybe he'd like to get a few of his dad's things--like that Hatters sign for his room or something.

 

No mother/son trip is probably because Zelena is as crazy as ever.  Don't forget they're going to find Lily as well.  I know, excuses and all.  

[KingOfHearts]

Surprisingly that sneak peek was better than what I'd expect from that kind of scene. I found it reminiscent of the Emma Swan/Mayor Mills dynamic.

[mjgchick]

Maybe Emma's magic scared them? That's the only way I can believe a cutie, white blonde child couldn't find a home. The Lily from the flashback episode I could see not being able to find a home but Emma? It makes no sense unless her parents saw her magic happen and Emma just doesn't remembers. It's funny that the only parent who wanted her was crazy Ingrid who just needed a baby sister. Yikes.

[YaddaYadda]

So am I the only one wondering why Regina has suddenly started calling Emma, Swan?  She used to call her Ms. Swan and there's a couple of episodes so far where she calls her just Swan.  Has she been hanging out with Hook or something?

[RadioGirl27]

So am I the only one wondering why Regina has suddenly started calling Emma, Swan?  She used to call her Ms. Swan and there's a couple of episodes so far where she calls her just Swan.  Has she been hanging out with Hook or something?

I was going to answer you, but then I rememebered you posted this before

 

Can I blacklist words, like queerbaiting?  If I never see this word again, it won't be too soon.

(Hook calls her Swan, so of course Regina has to call her that way too, even if it makes no sense and it's OOC for Regina).

[Souris]

So am I the only one wondering why Regina has suddenly started calling Emma, Swan?  She used to call her Ms. Swan and there's a couple of episodes so far where she calls her just Swan.  Has she been hanging out with Hook or something?

 

I'm pretty sure it's a nod to SQ. I hate it, since Hook has been the ONLY one to call her Swan. It was their special name thing, but it's not anymore. They have to give everything someone else has to Regina.

[Rumsy4]

I guess it's because "Emma" is too friendly and Ms Swan is too formal at this point in evolution of their relationship. Regina is not all the way into their friendship yet (what does Regina call Snow?). Honestly, not everything Emma/Regina has to be queerbaiting. It's just jarring because we've associated the "Swan" moniker to Hook until now. I would prefer it if Regina starts calling Emma by her first name.

[KingOfHearts]

Regina has been calling Emma "Swan" since 4A. I don't find it fitting for her character nor the relationship.

Edited April 23, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

They're bad about having various pet words or phrases that they use indiscriminately rather than limiting them to particular characters, as appropriate. I've noticed that the phrase "did a number on" keeps coming up, with almost all the characters having said it at least once -- regardless of their background. Even Hook has said it, and he really shouldn't know relatively current (20th-21st century) slang. I don't think they think about language usage, the meanings of which name is used, when, and by whom, etc. I don't think they see the "Swan" as significant, unless it's a significant moment, and then they forget that they've used it enough by enough people that it's no longer significant.

 

All that to say that there's enough to be annoyed by that I'm not going to get annoyed by what Regina calls Emma these days because I don't think they've put any thought into it.

[KingOfHearts]

Replying in writing.

[retrograde]

TV Guide:

 

Although it remains to be seen if Operation Save Robin (that doesn't quite have the same ring as Operation Mongoose) will succeed, Parrilla reveals that in the next episode, "You will learn something very new about Regina, and you will also get to see Barbara Hershey again [as Cora]... And the Evil Queen is back in that episode as well."

 

[Souris]

People are still obsessing that Regina is pregnant. I am a-feared now that it might be true, with that "something new" spoiler. The ONLY good thing about Regina being pregnant is that she might be sidelined from any rescue mission for Emma, if there is such a thing.

[YaddaYadda]

Isn't whatever we find out about Regina has to do with why they're bringing Cora back?  Something about Robin and Regina and Cora or something like that?  I know I read it somewhere.  This is for 4x20 (Mother).  Whatever we find out, it will have to do with something in Regina's past.  I doubt it will have to do with the present.

Edited April 24, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

Isn't whatever we find out about Regina has to do with why they're bringing Cora back? Something about Robin and Regina and Cora or something like that? I know I read it somewhere. This is for 4x20 (Mother). Whatever we find out, it will have to do with something in Regina's past. I doubt it will have to do with the present.

Rumple: "I sense great light magic in your daughter, Cora. She could be the greatest hero ever."

Cora: "Then I'll just have to cast a spell on her to make her a raging psychopath just like me!"

Rumple: "I have just the thing..."

*manical laughter ensues*

I really wouldn't he surprised I'd they attributed Regina's wickedness to a magic spell. They did with Lily.

Edited April 24, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Dianthus]

Gah! There are one or two other Mother/Child relationships on this show. Why oh why can't we focus on them, especially Snow and

Emma?

[Shanna Marie]

Rumple: "I sense great light magic in your daughter, Cora. She could be the greatest hero ever."

Cora: "Then I'll just have to cast a spell on her to make her a raging psychopath just like me!"

Great minds think alike. That's exactly where my brain went. Whatever new we learn about Regina's past will exonerate her from whatever evil she did and prove that she's the best person ever who deserves the happiest happy ending.

[RadioGirl27]

I think we are going to discover that the Author manipulated Regina's life per Cora's request, and that she went into the tabern to meet Robin but then the Author rewrote that page of the book. They are going to use it to justify everything Regina has done in her life. And we are going to discover that she was the only character without free will in her life. Everybody is responsible for their mistakes except Regina. She is an innocent and pure cupcake manipulated by her evil mother and the rogue author. Like Jessica Rabbit, she is not bad, she was drawn (or in this case written) like that. Ugh, this show.

Edited April 24, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

It won't erase anything though.  Rumple might have manipulated and turned her dark, but the rest is on her.  She wanted revenge on Snow and those are the means she used to try and get it.  Imagine for a second if Regina had chosen to be a benevolent queen instead, good to the people, helpful, kind and then had plastered Snow's face everywhere as the bandit, the fugitive, she could've just made up something about Snow and why she had to be arrested.  I'm sure everyone would not have been so quick to protect Snow had Regina been good to them.  They would have turned on Snow and not protected her, they would would turned her in.

 

Instead, Regina chose to be a tyrant and leveled entire villages because they didn't listen to her.  She could have been dark, kept her darkness hidden and chosen a different path.  She did not, so that's all on her.

 

I think Cora stopped her from meeting Robin in the tavern.  I think she coerced the Author into changing that.  For Cora, Robin is just another Stable Boy.  And even then, if we are to believe Robin's backstory, he was pretty happy and in love with his wife, so I guess Robin still comes out of this looking like a first grade asshole.

[KingOfHearts]

I don't know see how Cora would have ever known about Robin. She was in Wonderland at the time.

[HoodlumSheep]

Maybe she had spies in all the realms just like Zelena apparently did. Although, I think she would have been too busy teaching Ana how to be evil and dealing with Alice...what am I saying? Cora can be everywhere and nowhere 'cause she's mother flippin' Cora. She's probably the world's greatest multitasker. The Sheriff of Nottingham was probably her spy.

Edited April 24, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[KingOfHearts]

Maybe she had spies in all the realms just like Zelena apparently did. Although, I think she would have been too busy teaching Ana how to be evil and dealing with Alice...what am I saying? Cora can be everywhere and nowhere 'cause she's mother flippin' Cora. She's probably the world's greatest multitasker. The Sheriff of Nottingham was probably her spy.

I don't see how that would work either. If she was able to send spies to watch Regina, she would have just gone herself. She wanted to get to EF, and that's why she ordered Jefferson to make a new hat.

[HoodlumSheep]

Yeah, it's unlikely, but at this point with this show...they could easily retcon it somehow (not that it would make sense. Maybe she left a will to her secret evil minions that said "in the event of my absence, please try to ruin my daughter's life as much as possible" xoxo Cora

[Souris]

I think we are going to discover that the Author manipulated Regina's life per Cora's request, and that she went into the tabern to meet Robin but then the Author rewrote that page of the book. They are going to use it to justify everything Regina has done in her life. And we are going to discover that she was the only character without free will in her life. Everybody is responsible for their mistakes except Regina. She is an innocent and pure cupcake manipulated by her evil mother and the rogue author. Like Jessica Rabbit, she is not bad, she was drawn (or in this case written) like that. Ugh, this show.

 

This is what I fear and expect.

[RadioGirl27]

Sneak peek 2: Emma and Regina in New York (yeah, more Emma and Regina, I'm so excited)

[YaddaYadda]

So I just had a thought about Emma.

 

Can Emma be killed?  The reason I'm asking is very simple.  Cora could not take Emma's heart, something the writing has yet to explain and saying she's special doesn't cut it.  There was interesting dialogue in 3x17 between Hook and Zelena where she threatened Emma's life and how she will send the Dark One to kill her to which Hook replies, no, you won't.  If you could have killed her, you would've.  For some reason, Zelena could neither hurt nor kill Emma.

 

Is this the reason they are talking about darkening her heart instead of killing her which was an option only for Cruella apparently (which was also the set up for her centric).

 

So I've been wondering if that's the whole reason Emma is the one to make that sacrifice with the whole dagger business and why everyone (Hook) might realize that she is still alive because of the dialogue in 3x17.  Rumple wanting to suck Emma into the hat does not count because the people in the hat don't die as we saw with the fairies and the Apprentice will also be released from there, so if Rumple had succeeded, Emma would still not have died.

[Souris]

Presented without comment:

 

Do you have any scoop on Once Upon a Time‘s Hook and Emma? That would be great! – Jillian
As one might wisely surmise, Emma’s increasing darkness won’t only damage her dynamic with the ‘rents, it could also throw cold water on her first real romance in a while. “It impacts everyone,” series co-creator Adam Horowitz previews. “It’s the kind of thing where it puts Emma in a situation where she could be feeling isolated from those she loves and who love her, and those people are fighting to break through walls that are starting to come up again.” Even more ominous, the EP notes, these new walls “are even stronger and more difficult to surmount than the ones she had up when the series first began.” Bonus teaser: In Sunday’s episode “Lily,” “Emma comes face to face with her childhood friend” — aka Mal’s long-lost daughter, played by Agnes Bruckner — “and sees what their divergent paths have wrought on both their futures. It’s puts them in pretty direct conflict.”

[YaddaYadda]

“It’s the kind of thing where it puts Emma in a situation where she could be feeling isolated from those she loves and who love her, and those people are fighting to break through walls that are starting to come up again.”

 

Good thing we saw BTS from 4x19, 4x20 and possibly 4x22 where Emma does not seem to be isolated or feeling isolated at least when it comes to Hook and Henry.

 

So yeah, Adam, thanks for putting it out there for the pearl clutchers.  I can't imagine what tumblr must look like right now.

[RadioGirl27]

Yeah, it's Adam trolling. I mean, this is from next weeks episode:

Edited April 24, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[mjgchick]

That spoiler is garbage because Emma seems especially happy to see Hook and Henry. It's her parents who she keeps giving the stink eye too. So that's the only relationship I worry about on the show.

I can't believe they are blaming EVERYONE but Regina with her vile actions. So it's Cora, Rumple and The Adorable Authors fault that she decided to rape Paul Spector (Will not be over that. Ever. ) for 28 years? Being a dick to her own child since the day he was born? Wanting to kill Baby Emma since the day she was born? Fuck this noise. If I was a fan of Regina's I'd be pissed.

[FurryFury]

I wouldn't call the Author especially adorable, but if they'll indeed excuse all of Regina's evil deeds... Well, I hope it won't come to this. I'm just sick of retcons by this point. 

[RadioGirl27]

Some fans think that Adam is talking about next season when he says that Emma's walls are coming back and stronger than ever. And I can see it happening, with Emma feeling so much guilt for the things she has done during her affair with darkness that she start pushing everyone away. Or loosing her ability to love because of her darkness. Or any other contrived excuse the writers would come up to invalidate Emma's growth and take her back to square one in her relationship with her parents, her son and Hook.

Edited April 24, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Rumsy4]

Walls up Emma is the last thing I want to see in 5A. Her whining about New York in 3B was hard enough to bear!

[LizaD]

 

She wanted to get to EF, and that's why she ordered Jefferson to make a new hat.

 

Well that's because she temporarily forgot about the hankering moon bracelet that will grant you anything you desire, even realm traveling. Of course this thing only works if you're heartless so voila!

 

 

Hook and Zelena where she threatened Emma's life and how she will send the Dark One to kill her to which Hook replies, no, you won't.  If you could have killed her, you would've.

I think that was just to emphasize that Emma is more powerful than Zelena and a lot of the other magic users since it was also the episode that she was practicing her magic.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Sneak peek 2: Emma and Regina in New York (yeah, more Emma and Regina, I'm so excited)

Emma being about to punch that guy seemed as in-character as Hook wanting to punch Will in the Captain Swan date. It's contrived to make a point. "Omg! Emma is going dark!" It also haunts me with memories of Snow slapping Geppetto. At first I wondered if Emma would agree with the crazy guy, since Lily was a troublemaker in her life as well. I'm honestly surprised Regina wasn't cheering her on.

Edited April 24, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[scenicbyway]

Presented without comment:

 

Do you have any scoop on Once Upon a Time‘s Hook and Emma? That would be great! – Jillian

As one might wisely surmise, Emma’s increasing darkness won’t only damage her dynamic with the ‘rents, it could also throw cold water on her first real romance in a while. “It impacts everyone,” series co-creator Adam Horowitz previews. “It’s the kind of thing where it puts Emma in a situation where she could be feeling isolated from those she loves and who love her, and those people are fighting to break through walls that are starting to come up again.” Even more ominous, the EP notes, these new walls “are even stronger and more difficult to surmount than the ones she had up when the series first began.” Bonus teaser: In Sunday’s episode “Lily,” “Emma comes face to face with her childhood friend” — aka Mal’s long-lost daughter, played by Agnes Bruckner — “and sees what their divergent paths have wrought on both their futures. It’s puts them in pretty direct conflict.”

The thing is...it took Hook half a beanstalk to break through Emma's walls.  So if she does stop by Home Depot for some 2x4's it should take him half an episode to break through the new wall?  I get that she's isolating herself from her parents, to punish them for their past dastardly deeds, but I don't see her pushing Hook away.  We already know that she takes his hand before she zaps herself away with the dagger, they must be on somewhat good terms for that.  She only pushed Henry away when her hand magic was out of control to keep him safe, I don't see her doing that again.

I also don't think Hook would be offended if Emma went Dark!, because he's been there himself.  It would be hypocritical for him to give up on her when he spent years pining for Milah and revenge on Rumple.

 

I so don't care about Lily/Emma, which will of course be paralleled to Regina/Emma.  Why do Regina and Emma have to be BFF's???

[mjgchick]

Apparently Matt twisted the question around and it had more to do with her walls being up because of her parents than it did Hook.

 

If Emma does not show Killian where to get magnum sized condoms, I swear to Beyonce I will flip a table.

Edited April 25, 2015 by mjgchick

[KingOfHearts]

 

Why do Regina and Emma have to be BFF's???

I'm comfortable with Regina and Emma being partners-in-solving-crime/co-parents/frenemies, but that sort of relationship doesn't come up in my mind when I think "BFF". It's manufactured and just doesn't fit their description at all. If the show wanted to go that way, then it should have gone gradually instead of hitting us on the head with a mallet. I like seeing them work together and talk about their problems, but slapping them into a room together and waiting for hugs and facial masks is straight-up inappropriate.

 

 

I don't even think Jennifer and Lana even have that type of chemistry. They have this awkward mood about their scenes compared to Jennifer and Georgina Haig or Ginny before Emma broke the first curse. It's so weird to me.

They're much better at "unlikely allies".

Edited April 25, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

I don't even think Jennifer and Lana even have that type of chemistry. They have this awkward mood about their scenes compared to Jennifer and Georgina Haig or Ginny before Emma broke the first curse. It's so weird to me.

[ParadoxLost]

“It’s the kind of thing where it puts Emma in a situation where she could be feeling isolated from those she loves and who love her, and those people are fighting to break through walls that are starting to come up again.”

 

I choose to believe that they are doing Edgar Allen Poe or transporting Emma to a land with castles and drawbridges.  Hook will have to mount a rescue.

[Rumsy4]

I hope he gets to mount something... if you know what I mean.