Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[retrograde]

She would have had to age must faster than Emma did for some reason, too, because the character in those BTS photos does not look 30.

[Dianthus]

Returning to the subject of Hook and Emma for a mo', it's entirely possible she'll feel Rumple ripping out his heart is punishment enough for his deception. It's no picnic, and she should know, since Cora tried it on her. I don't think it's going to be as easy to get it back as just storming into Gold's shop and demanding it, either.

 That said, if he considers himself a dead man anyway (a rather fatalistic view, considering his vaunted ability to survive) he'd want his death to have some meaning, so a sacrifice would be totally in character.

 

I love the pix of them from 4X12. They seem so much more...comfortable with each other. It's like they're really settling into being a couple. Yay!

Edited November 24, 2014 by Dianthus

[KingOfHearts]

So Emma turned needy clingy, crazy Lily into Cruella by rejecting her and not wanting to be her friend? Please no.

Lily was such a brat that I think she have become Cruella no matter if Emma was ever in the picture or not.

For the record, I find it unlikely Lily is Cruella. It's a stretch for her to move to London, become a fur-obsessed socialite, then find Storybrooke. Plus, she was a threesome with Rumple and Ursula. There's that mentioned age difference too...

Replying to Smash the Mirror thread:

Knowing the spoiler that the book plot still comes into play in 4B, it's strange they seemingly concluded it with the whole "choose your destiny" and Page 23. Since there's 5 people in on it now, it can only get crazier, I suppose.

Edited November 24, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[HeimrArnadalr]

Lily was such a brat that I think she have become Cruella no matter if Emma was ever in the picture or not.

For the record, I find it unlikely Lily is Cruella. It's a stretch for her to move to London, become a fur-obsessed socialite, then find Storybrooke. Plus, she was a threesome with Rumple and Ursula. There's that mentioned age difference too...

It is a stretch, to be sure, particularly with the age difference. But Once's version of Cruella need not be from London (Pongo isn't). In fact, if she is, that raises the question of what is a mundane fashion designer from London doing in a small unmapped town in Maine?

[KingOfHearts]

It is a stretch, to be sure, particularly with the age difference. But Once's version of Cruella need not be from London (Pongo isn't). In fact, if she is, that raises the question of what is a mundane fashion designer from London doing in a small unmapped town in Maine?

The actress has a distinct British accent, so who knows. I'll be disappointed if she's from the Enchanted Forest. If the Dark One is assembling Rumple's Angels, then she might have been in Storybrooke already. In the chance she's a magical being in the hat, I'll throw my hands up in irritation.

Edited November 24, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

I'm curious about those photos too. They do seem to be more open to others knowing what's going on in those photos. I am not sure what changes in these last few episodes to make Emma and/or Hook cool with PDA and all that. I'm all for it, but it strikes me as a change in direction.

My friend saw the photos and noted that it appears that Hook brought Emma coffee - nice gesture. But poor Belle who is opening the library for them didn't get any.

There was a spoiler about two couples facing a challenge and changing forever. One is obviously Rumbelle, but the other could be CS getting stronger after the heart incident, especially if there is a declaration of love (I'm thinking about an "I love you" because I think is way too soon for a TLK but maybe the writers want to parallel the failed kiss in 3x11 with a successful one in 4x11).

[retrograde]

I concur with previous speculation that there will be a (short) time jump for 4b and most of what we saw being filmed in Steveston was a kind of montage of a happy, calm morning in Storybrooke after the characters have had a bit of a rest from crisis. Emma and Hook are in love; Regina is moving on since Robin left, and has been growing even closer to Henry; Belle is moving on from Rumple and is finally going to order and catalogue the books in the library instead of just randomly placing them on the shelves; and I would wager some interior shots will be cut in -- the Charmings at Granny's or something, because it is never to early to accustom their child to their staple diet of lasagne and fries. And then...all hell breaks loose.

(Of course, now I have put this out there, I will almost certainly be hilariously wrong)

[Rumsy4]

I donno about a time jump. A&E love to jump from crisis to crisis. It's not their style to give their characters more than half a day of peace before the next crisis hits. ;-)

[retrograde]

I'm just thinking like a couple of weeks.

[Crimson Belle]

I'd be shocked if there is a time jump.  I fully expect a cliffhanger.

[YaddaYadda]

You can still have a time jump and a cliff hanger, no?  We'll know there's something bad coming and the peeps of Storybrooke are just going about their lives (yay!) when Maleficent escapes the bowels of the library.

 

I'm mostly curious about Rumple's plans because clearly, his decent into madness is far, far, far from done.

[Mathius]

Lily was such a brat that I think she have become Cruella no matter if Emma was ever in the picture or not.

Yeah, such a brat for telling one lie, just as Snow was for telling one secret. Sounds right.

No way is she Cruella, though. Wrong nationality, plus the star birthmark doesn't add up. Odds are she's connected to the Sorceror aka the Book Author.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Mathius

[Shanna Marie]

Typically shows don't keep babies as babies very long because it takes away from the story/plot.

On the other hand, an infant can be kind of invisible -- they can use dolls in some scenes, the baby can be "asleep" in a crib or cradle on the set without being actually seen, and we know that they do spend most of their time sleeping. Once the child is old enough to be independently mobile, it gets more complicated. They can't really use dolls anymore and the kid should be doing more than lying in a crib all day, plus children start being more distinct-looking, so it's harder to find multiple kids to play the role, and kids that age don't take direction well. And, alas, they're too young to ship them off to boarding school. The ages you'd want to skip in a time jump would be from about one to about four or five.

 

As for the cliffhanger vs. time passing thing, Angel and Deep Space Nine used to do this pretty well, in wrapping up the main plot of the season in the finale, then the final scene revealing something that was starting to brew but that wouldn't necessarily immediately affect the heroes right away. Then the season premiere would be three or so months later with the heroes getting settled into the new "normal" just in time for the thing that was just starting to brew to kick in. In this case, they may have resolved the Snow Queen and the hat issues, and then the last scene before the break might be a pair of glowing eyes opening in the bowels of the library. The next episode could be a week or two later, just enough for things to be feeling "normal" again, and that's when Dragon Mel finally manages to wake entirely and free herself to come bursting out.

 

I wonder, is the spate of villains because of the hat or because Regina manages to create a world where villains get happy endings? Is that maybe how those plots are pulled together?

 

Oh, silly me. Nothing will ever be Regina's fault, not even the things she actually did.

[KingOfHearts]

Yeah, such a brat for telling one lie, just as Snow was for telling one secret. Sounds right.

She also stole her dad's credit card, ran away from her parents and broke into a house. So yeah, I'd say she was pretty unscrupulous. Something about her seemed bratty to me.

I don't think she's Cruella, though, and I agree with the possibility of her being connected to the sorcerer.

Edited November 24, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Stuffy]

I'd at least like them to do enough of a time jump to move along Henry and Emma's age.  We only know estimates about the other character's ages, so it doesn't matter how old they are right now.  They could at least let us know if Emma is 30 yet. I have no idea how old she's supposed to be.  I think Henry is supposed to be 12.  He was 11 in Manhattan and then one year in New York.  

[PaperScissors]

I'm wondering how the time jump would even work though in this context... if the quest for the book is an arc that is going to continue into 4b, I don't see how much of a time jump there could be, unless the book author quest takes them years (ugh, please no).

 

If they can't do a time jump for Henry's age, at least they could write him more like a teenaged (or almost teenaged) boy. That would be a start.

[Stuffy]

It doesn't even need to be a full year time jump just a few months and a mention that Henry turned 13.  I don't know what month or year it actually is in Storybrooke right now.  All I know is that Frozen supposedly hasn't come out in their time which I always thought was stupid anyway.

[retrograde]

I don't think a few weeks would put a dent in the book arc, but it would allow them to skip Belle and/or Regina wallowing (assuming at least one of those relationships breaks down for a while) and Emma and Hook talking through all the hand/blackmail stuff. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on ny part, but it was the vibe I got from those BTS shots anyway.

Regardless, I do think they should work in a longer time jump for 5A, or things are just going to get ridiculous with Jared Gilmore.

Edited November 24, 2014 by retrograde

[Souris]

I concur that the happy Storybrooke morning might be a montage or a short start to 4B after a small time jump, before all hell (aka Maleficent) breaks loose. Perhaps it's given Rumple time to amass Rumple's Angels. CS Tumblr fans are all atwitter thinking we're going to get a CS "coffee" scene, but I'm fully prepared for the actual coffee to be the only hint that they've progressed to "coffee." I really don't think there will be a CS bed scene. Because crypt sex is OK to spell out, since it involved Regina, but no nookie for the good guys in a healthy & loving relationship. That's just not hot or worth seeing, you know. (I may simply be trying to cushion myself from disappointment, but that's the show's MO so far.)

 

I think the two couples tested and changed forever are Rumbelle and OQ. A&E seem to think OQ is beloved.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Souris

[OnceUponAJen]

I'm curious about those photos too. They do seem to be more open to others knowing what's going on in those photos. I am not sure what changes in these last few episodes to make Emma and/or Hook cool with PDA and all that. I'm all for it, but it strikes me as a change in direction

CS Tumblr fans are all atwitter thinking we're going to get a CS "coffee" scene, but I'm fully prepared for the actual coffee to be the only hint that they've progressed to "coffee." I really don't think there will be a CS bed scene. Because crypt sex is OK to spell out, since it involved Regina, but no nookie for the good guys in a healthy & loving relationship. That's just not hot or worth seeing, you know. (I may simply be trying to cushion myself from disappointment, but that's the show's MO so far.)

Yes, I found the coffee in those pics quite oddly and conspicuously placed. I think you could be right...I've had the same thought. However Hook has no left hand, so he may have no choice but to hold the cup in his right hand if he also wants to put his arm around Emma.

Why do I feel a little weird for analyzing this? :D

Edited November 24, 2014 by OnceUponAJen

[Joanh23]

If there isn't any CS "coffee" time after Emma gets Hook his heart back, the CS tumblr fans will explode in frustration I think...

[InsertWordHere]

I was hoping we'd get the synopsis for 3.9 today. Are the run-on sentence writers on Thanksgiving break? Sorry, that was mean.

[retrograde]

ABC has put out plenty of other press releases and stills today, so I don't think so. We might still, it's still early on the west coast.

Edited November 24, 2014 by retrograde

[HeimrArnadalr]

What about sneak peeks? There weren't any last week, do you think there will be some this week despite the Thanksgiving break?

[YaddaYadda]

There was nothing last week because the show wasn't on this past Sunday (I totally hate award shows with the fiery passion of a million burning suns).

 

I'm thinking we'll be getting the first sneak peek probably on Wednesday and the write-up for the show tomorrow and I'm sure Adam will be all over his script teases.  Here's the first one: Regina have hope, you're not a villain.  You're just misunderstood.

Edited November 25, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[retrograde]

Who knows. ABC marketing is so weird with its sneaks. Some shows they release loads of them (when I used to watch Castle, they would sometimes release like six in one week), others barely any. I don't know if that's because they have a different team for different show that operate independently, or if it's based on research that they're more effective with some audiences than others. Once probably does have more post-production than most shows because of all the CGI, so I guess it's possible that footage sometimes just isn't ready in time.

[OnceUponAJen]

If there isn't any CS "coffee" time after Emma gets Hook his heart back, the CS tumblr fans will explode in frustration I think...

As if billions of voices cried out and were suddenly silenced...

Sorry, couldn't resist!

[Emma]

I'm not expecting much if anything. But I don't understand why CS couldn't get something between what Snowing and OQ got.

[CatMack]

Yeah, when I saw that interview I was like....does she mean she doesn't know in an "I'm being coy and trying not to spoil it" way, or a "I haven't seen it happen in any scripts yet" kind of way?

[daxx]

I am sure she is just being coy and avoiding spoilers. A&E are not fond of the actors spoiling future plot points.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I am sure she is just being coy and avoiding spoilers. A&E are not fond of the actors spoiling future plot points.

As if the viewers can't guess what's going to happen. Seriously - this show is so predictable that we almost don't even need spoilers to tell what's in store.

[RadioGirl27]

Yeah, I think she is being coy. This part seems pretty definitive:
 

Emma is going to help him get his heart back

But, with this writers, who knows.

Edited November 25, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[OnceUponAJen]

I am sure she is just being coy and avoiding spoilers. A&E are not fond of the actors spoiling future plot points.

I'm hoping the heart plotline doesn't last too long. I'd really hate to have to watch the things Rumple would have him do. Like others have said....it just isn't a fair balance of power. I'm predicting 4x11 will wrap up that part of the story.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm hoping the heart plotline doesn't last too long. I'd really hate to have to watch the things Rumple would have him do. Like others have said....it just isn't a fair balance of power. I'm predicting 4x11 will wrap up that part of the story.

 

I'm thinking they find out about Hook's heart at the end of 410 after the whole reunion we saw in those pictures.  Carlyle also said that things really start unravelling for Rumple in 409 and 410 and 411 is titled heroes vs villains.  So I think we're all good.

[YaddaYadda]

She says she knows that Emma will play a part in it, but not when or how. Well then how would she know that Emma plays a part in it? While that is the obvious answer, there is not a guarantee unless she did know.

 

Of course she knows what's going to happen, not only is Hook Emma's special guyfriend, but they've already filmed 411.  I think t just means that it won't be an individual effort to get Hook's heart back.  I mean someone has to find out that Hook's heart is missing and maybe a couple of people try to reason with Rumple (Belle and Henry?), I'm sure David will be in on this somehow, assisting Emma...and to be fair, they're talking about getting his heart back, not putting it back where it should be in the first place.

[KingOfHearts]

 

411 is titled heroes vs villains.

So, which side will Regina be on? Probably depends on how she's feeling that day.

 

 

I'm hoping the heart plotline doesn't last too long. I'd really hate to have to watch the things Rumple would have him do. Like others have said....it just isn't a fair balance of power. I'm predicting 4x11 will wrap up that part of the story.

Same here. The more Rumple gets the upper hand, the more I want crashed down on him.

Edited November 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

I'm gonna with how Lana has been saying that DQ is not Regina's battle.  I don't think Regina will have anything to do with any of this.  Even Rumple at this point isn't her battle. 

 

Regina won't show up and save the day.  I know we like making jokes about this and we've sort of been burned with the whole Regina is the awesomest awesome who ever awesomed, but I think we'll be safe this go 'round.  She'll probably have her hands full with Robin and Marian anyway,

[RadioGirl27]

Finally a press release for Fall:
 

"Fall" - As the Spell of Shattered Sight approaches Storybrooke, Mary Margaret and David rally the residents to prepare for the curse while Belle and the fairies work together on an antidote. Gold, with Hook as his reluctant servant, sets about an exit strategy of his own. Regina and Robin Hood ready themselves for the worst while, with the help of a locator spell, Emma and Elsa search desperately for Anna. In Arendelle, Anna and Kristoff awaken to find that their kingdom is once again in danger, on "Once Upon a Time," SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 30 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.
"Once Upon a Time" stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Lana Parrilla as the Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David Nolan, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Colin O'Donoghue as Hook, Jared S. Gilmore as Henry, Michael Socha as Will Scarlet and Robert Carlyle as Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold.
Guest stars include Lee Arenberg as Leroy/Grumpy, Keegan Connor Tracy as Mother Superior/Blue Fairy, Sean Maguire as Robin Hood, Georgina Haig as Elsa, Elizabeth Lail as Anna, Scott Michael Foster as Kristoff, Charles Mesure as Black Beard, Raphael Alejandro as Roland, Tyler Jacob Moore as Hans, Nils Hognestad as Franz, Marcus Rosner as Jurgen and Elizabeth Mitchell as the Snow Queen.
"Fall" was written by Jane Espenson and directed by Mario Van Peebles.

Blackbeard is really back. And so is Hans. 

Edited November 25, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Jean]

Well sometimes the writers will give an overall big picture to their actors but not the nitty gritty details. Doesn't she just usually say I can't say. Like with that spoiler about Emma's problem that she said is revealed in ep. 3 but can't talk about what it was. If the interview was during ep. 10 and the plot is done by ep. 11 she would have gotten the script already.

 

I feel like if the heart ripping thing was only a 2 episode plot point during which the majority of time Emma would be busy elsewhere, they wouldn't be emphasizing the Hook still loves Emma without a heart thing. I'm not quite convinced he gets it back end of 4A. The heart plot point will give them a reason to include Hook in the Disney Villain league they've got going on for 4B.

[Shanna Marie]

So, is Blackbeard in flashbacks, or did he escape? We didn't see a body, and he wasn't actually killed onscreen.

[Souris]

Hans ... and Franz! They're here to pump us up!

 

If Belle is working with the fairies, and Rumple sends Hook to suck the fairies into the hat, then Belle may see it.

 

I really, really, really, don't want the heart storyline to extend into 4B.

[YaddaYadda]

Are they already setting up Ursula with Blackbeard?  Maybe she was the bubbling water we saw when Hook sent him off the plank?

 

ETA - Actually, maybe the chest Anna and Kristoff come out of was on his ship?

Edited November 25, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[Shanna Marie]

Ooh, Hans's much hotter (and possibly smarter and maybe even slightly less evil, since they don't have to be) brothers appear to be back.

[RadioGirl27]

I feel like if the heart ripping thing was only a 2 episode plot point during which the majority of time Emma would be busy elsewhere, they wouldn't be emphasizing the Hook still loves Emma without a heart thing. I'm not quite convinced he gets it back end of 4A. The heart plot point will give them a reason to include Hook in the Disney Villain league they've got going on for 4B.

Maybe I'm being naïve, but I think that comment about Hook loving Emma even without the heart has to do with the kiss at the end of episode 8, as a way to reasure the fans that it was a real kiss and not something ordered by Rumple. I don't know, I just can't imagine a way to drag the heart storyline to 4B without destroying Rumple, Hook and Emma in the process.

 

I'm kind of excited to see Blackbeard again. Maybe he has something to do with the chest where Anna and Kristoff are locked.

 

I have found this on tumblr:

 

I was just texting with the Ann(e)’s and this was the episode they were also filming on the Jolly Roger. We physically saw them filming on it at the studio in Van while we were there. They were filming it against a green screen so I’m assuming they will CG the paint to make it look like a different ship. We don’t know who was filming on it, we just saw them doing it. But dude… the Davey Jones thing is looking more and more plausible.

It's the girl who said that she had seen something amazing that couldn't tell. It seems it was this.

Edited November 25, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Curio]

Gold, with Hook as his reluctant servant, sets about an exit strategy of his own.

 

Where did I hear a spoiler about Robert filming what looked to be a NYC scene? Or am I totally making that up? Maybe his exit strategy is to lay low in New York with Hook while the Spell of Shattered Sight goes on in Storybrooke.

[HoodlumSheep]

Yay! blackbeard! I think he would be in flashbacks. Because, doesn't the DQ/elsa story take place around 5 years ago/5 years before the curse struck? So this would be before snow came to him in the time travel past?

It'd be cool if Blackbeard was a reoccurring baddy. I find it kind of fun how he keeps popping in and out of the story (at least in the flashbacks).

Edited November 25, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[retrograde]

Where did I hear a spoiler about Robert filming what looked to be a NYC scene? Or am I totally making that up? Maybe his exit strategy is to lay low in New York with Hook while the Spell of Shattered Sight goes on in Storybrooke.

You're not making it up, but it was a later episode, I believe.

[Souris]

I wonder if Blackbeard has anything to do with the chest in the ocean that Anna & Kristoff end up in?

 

Will Hans be in flashback, or will he be unfrozen? Perhaps by his brothers somehow? Maybe they come to take over Arendelle and somehow unfreeze him, Anna and Kristoff, then send A&K off for Blackbeard to dispose of.

 

Sven will lead the resistance fighters.

[HoodlumSheep]

I wonder if Blackbeard has anything to do with the chest in the ocean that Anna & Kristoff end up in?

Will Hans be in flashback, or will he be unfrozen? Perhaps by his brothers somehow? Maybe they come to take over Arendelle and somehow unfreeze him, Anna and Kristoff, then send A&K off for Blackbeard to dispose of.

Sven will lead the resistance fighters.

Maybe Arendelle unfreezes when the DQ realm hops?

Tumblr seems pretty excited about Blackbeard (as of right now that is). Charles Mesure seems to have left a good impression for only being in an episode + a minute in the 3b finale.

[YaddaYadda]

I wonder if Blackbeard has anything to do with the chest in the ocean that Anna & Kristoff end up in?

 

I've wondered the same thing upthread.  You know, Arendelle doesn't seem like it was part of the first curse.  Blackbeard doesn't seem to have been in Storybrooke ever.  So if he went to Arendelle and took Anna and Kristoff, maybe he had them on the Jolly Roger stashed away after he took ownership of it and maybe they were freed after the new owner (whoever Hook sold his ship to) came into its possession.  Stands to reason that Blackbeard would have moved everything he owned to his new ship. 

 

I wonder how Anna and Kristoff survived some 31 years unless the rock troll had something to do with it since they're Kristoff's family or whatever...