Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[YaddaYadda]

I also think the reason we saw Emma only using white magic when she fought Merlin

 

Her magic was gold.

[kili]

Her magic was gold.

 

So was Hook's in the one instance we saw - removing the cuff.

[YaddaYadda]

So was Hook's in the one instance we saw - removing the cuff.

 

I'm not sure about that though. The potions he poured over his hook in 5x01 was gold, so I just assumed that's what it was.

[sharky]

But that still has me confused. He put the drops on his hook so he could use it to get a heart. I wonder if the magic he used to release Zelena's cuff was still part of that magic on his cuff or if it was actually him using dark one magic that he didn't realize he had. That would mean he could use magic and just never chose to before since he didn't know he was the Dark One.

 

And I can see Hook going dark quick in Camelot. In fact, I could see him going after Merlin. He begged Emma to not turn him into a dark one because he was too weak to not let it overtake him. So getting angry and killing Merlin for what he had made Hook could totally be possible. But again, he gets returned to Storybrooke in his pre-dark clothes so I feel like there's something more to that since he's not wearing the cloak when he returns.

[kili]

I'm not sure about that though. The potions he poured over his hook in 5x01 was gold, so I just assumed that's what it was.

 

I'm thinking that is the gotcha clue they gave us that he had magic prior to the reveal (so they can point back and show that hm being shown his memories just caused him to become dark, not magical). Why would a potion for ripping out hearts be the Leatherman tool of potions? Is there any reason why it should be able to break Regina's spell to keep the cuff on Zelena? It wasn't even enough of a potion to get through Zelena's spell and take her heart which is what its entire purpose was. I can see why Hook would assume that it worked given the information he had, but in retrospect...

 

Well, we shall see what colour his magic next week. It will probably be the colour of poo just because that is what this story is.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm not sure about that though. The potions he poured over his hook in 5x01 was gold, so I just assumed that's what it was.

That would be ironic if Hook's magic color was... Gold.

[chrisvee]

I'm struggling to understand what Dark Hook could do in Camelot when Emma has the sword fragment that controls him -- she can summon him or poof to him instantly.

It won't won't be until Regina or Snowing steal the sword fragment from her that the trouble starts. Or some other silly reason. I can't imagine they'll spend much more time in Camelot. We'll find out what happened to Merlin, we'll see the reactions to Dark Emma, curse'll be cast, but bulk of the action will be in SB.

Dark Hook in SB seems to be going to work immediately.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm struggling to understand what Dark Hook could do in Camelot when Emma has the sword fragment that controls him -- she can summon him or poof to him instantly.

 

When Emma held the sword to Arthur's throat, she said that it didn't control anyone anymore. I don't think she's lying about it. 

[HoodlumSheep]

Between these spoilers and the announcement that Gravity Falls is officially ending (on its own terms) after the final 2 episodes...

What a rough end to the week.

I never thought of that anti-magic cuff. It makes no sense that a heart-removal potion would work on it. But couldn't Killy remove it just by taking it off? I thought regina only enchanted it so Zelena couldn't lop off her hand again? Unless she enchanted it so it could be removed only by magical-ish means?

[RadioGirl27]

Has there been a specific spoiler that states they go to the UW to save Hook?  Or are people just assuming becoming Storybrooke is so fucked up in the BTS pics?  I know that Hades has been cast, but that doesn't mean folks are taking a trip to his world.

Who knows, with this writers, maybe they are there to finish him off completely.

 

The only thing I can't figure out is whose heart she crushed and how that person (because it's got to be Hook or Henry) is still breathing.

After what she did to him, if she also used Hook's heart to cast the curse, that would be the nail in the coffin for me.

 

Hook isn't a character to A&E right now. His redemption doesn't matter a whit. It's about Emma and how this affects her. She's the one being tested. She has to pass where Merlin failed.

Hook has never been a character for A&E, he is just a prop for Emma and Rumple. That's why they are doing this now, or why the resolution for his missing heart last season lasted 26 seconds. And that's not going to change in 5B.

[oliverwendell]

 

I'm struggling to understand what Dark Hook could do in Camelot when Emma has the sword fragment that controls him

 

I forgot about that. Good point. Although Emma is also a Dark One, so she might not want to stop him from killing Merlin or getting up to other evil shenanigans.

 

 

When Emma held the sword to Arthur's throat, she said that it didn't control anyone anymore.

 

That was the united sword. When it's still in two pieces, in Camelot, I think each piece can control whomever is bound to it. So the dagger part can control Emma, and the blade part can control Hook. Right now, Emma has both parts. But who knows who might get their hands on one or both? Regina? Arthur? I'd feel a lot better about whatever havoc Hook wreaks in Camelot if he were forced to do it by someone else.

 

In Storybrooke, though, it's all on him.

Edited November 21, 2015 by oliverwendell

[YaddaYadda]

What if that's what happens? What if someone tries to control him? Everything Emma has said and done in Storybrooke has to do with Hook. What if someone got a hold of the sword and tried to control him? What if that's what her words to happy about holding on to something with your name on it were about?

 

We know Regina controlled her a couple of times. Yeah, she sucked for it, but she didn't do it to hurt Emma. Arthur controlled Merlin which hurt Merlin, his magic was starting to turn dark because of Arthur. If he had killed Snow, he would've turned full on Dark One.

[Rumsy4]

Well... I am not a happy camper right now, but I'm still going to wait and see. I too tend to favor the view that Hook will go full on Dark Hook in Camelot. That's the immediate aftermath of being resurrected as a DO minutes after he asks Emma not to do that to him. It still seems idiotic to me if he goes full Dark in Storybrooke just because he got his memories back. But with these writers---who knows?? 

[chrisvee]

They are probably sharing a heart too.

[BoPeeps]

Sanity of plot and honest character development have nothing to do with anything from the pens of the A&E writing team.

If nothing else, (and I heavily expect nothing else)...it will showcase Colin's talent.

[YaddaYadda]

They are probably sharing a heart too.

 

Well after 5x08, and going back a few episodes back, when Clippy!Rumple tells Emma she crushed Hook's heart even more under her impractical boot, that takes on a whole new meaning, doesn't it?

[PixiePaws1]

Merlin was able break the control of the sword for a short while until it was back in safer hands. i think if someone controls Killian with it he will also be able to break it..

at least long enough to allow a curse to be cast with his heart voluntarily given up to Emma....OmG I hate the idea of Emma crushing his heart. .

.

[oliverwendell]

Well, if they do share a heart (which, blechh), he's not going to be dead when he goes to the Underworld, because isn't that what sharing a heart means -- that if one dies, the other drops dead, too?

[mjgchick]

When Rumple was in control of Hook's heart he momentarily was able to show Emma some sort of sign that he wasn't in control of himself.

[HoodlumSheep]

Well... I am not a happy camper right now, but I'm still going to wait and see. I too tend to favor the view that Hook will go full on Dark Hook in Camelot. That's the immediate aftermath of being resurrected as a DO minutes after he asks Emma not to do that to him. It still seems idiotic to me if he goes full Dark in Storybrooke just because he got his memories back. But with these writers---who knows??

I kind off see it the opposite way a bit. If he goes full Dark in Camelot, that's the threshold he's probably going to start out at after immediately getting his memories back in Storybrooke, because that's where he basically left off at. I would hope we'd see him struggle a bit in Camelot, reach his evilest point by the end of it, start off at that point when he got his memories back in Storybrooke and then come to his senses by the end of it. Unless there is a secret plan of some sorts that somehow fits into the picture. Or maybe some one will get a hold of his piece of excalibur and control him in Camelot.

The fact that it was mentioned that Emma's mad or whatever you want to call it for what she *thinks* happens makes you wonder...or who knows, maybe that idea got changed by the time A&E were done writing the end of the arc.

Although I guess that doesn't explain why Hook didn't come back to Storybrooke with his hair parted in the other, eviler direction. Maybe is wardrobe change was part of the stipulation of the dark curse, I don't know.

Edited November 21, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Mari]

Well, if they do share a heart (which, blechh), he's not going to be dead when he goes to the Underworld, because isn't that what sharing a heart means -- that if one dies, the other drops dead, too?

I think it depends on how much of "Retcon, the Operetta" they're planning on writing.  It should mean that if one dies, so does the other, but, well, TS, TW, and their love of logic defying and characterization defying twists.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Mari

[Mathius]

No matter how much I re-read JMO's quote, I just cannot think she's referring to anything BUT in Camelot, since there are two parts to the Dark Hook twist: it happening and it being revealed to have happened, and JMO is pretty clearly talking about it happening.  It also would make sense for him to go full-on evil then, because that would provide enough reasoning for Emma to launch a curse that takes away everyone's memories, especially his.

 

Once he sees all that happened in present-day Storybrooke, I think he'll be playing Nimue and the other Dark Ones, and working toward making himself the sole carrier of the Darkness so that Emma can be saved and he can be killed in order to save the town.  That, however, won't be revealed until 5x11, so expect a full episode where it looks like Hook in the present day is just evil like he is in the flashback.

 

ETA: Yep, checked 5x11 spoilers and it really seems like the final scene with Nimue and all the other Dark Ones is the one by the lake that Jen (as Dark Swan) and Colin filmed, afterward Jen was seen filming as regular Emma with Hook's ring. Hopefully this also means that Regina isn't the one to kill him after all, and Emma does it herself.  I know it will be painful for Emma, but I will gladly accept that if it spares us another Big Damn Hero Regina moment at an arc's conclusion.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Mathius

[ABitOFluff]

No matter how much I re-read JMO's quote, I just cannot think she's referring to anything BUT in Camelot, since there are two parts to the Dark Hook twist: it happening and it being revealed to have happened, and JMO is pretty clearly talking about it happening.  It also would make sense for him to go full-on evil then, because that would provide enough reasoning for Emma to launch a curse that takes away everyone's memories, especially his.

 

Once he sees all that happened in present-day Storybrooke, I think he'll be playing Nimue and the other Dark Ones, and working toward making himself the sole carrier of the Darkness so that Emma can be saved and he can be killed in order to save the town.  That, however, won't be revealed until 5x11, so expect a full episode where it looks like Hook in the present day is just evil like he is in the flashback.

I agree. She's referring to his initial reactions to becoming the Dark One. Like I've said, I have theories of what happened after that, but he's a baby Dark One in Camelot. I don't think he's going to be on his best behavior.

Edited November 21, 2015 by ABitOFluff

[Mathius]

Especially when he finds someone he wants revenge on (who I just know is gonna be Merlin).

 

Again, it's no different from Rumple, whose first deed as the Dark One was to mercilessly slaughter the soldiers who bullied him even when they were totally powerless against him now.  Emma is an exception, not the rule.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

If Hook is dark in Storybrooke, it could be from something that happened in his memories. Maybe Emma did other stuff to tick him off. You could compare his situation to Ezri in DS9. She wasn't prepared for what she got, so her reaction was different from others. Hook doesn't have a good intention like Emma or Rumple did, so he's driven only by dark impulses.

Most of my logic is just headcanon, though. Their DO logic is flawed at best. I prefer the "Frodo and the ring" interpretation.

Edited November 21, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

Sanity of plot and honest character development have nothing to do with anything from the pens of the A&E writing team.

If nothing else, (and I heavily expect nothing else)...it will showcase Colin's talent.

 

Yes, it will do that. So that's what I shall take as the silver lining.

[Dianthus]

Given the picture AC posted of himself with the burned out cars in the background, I'm really hoping we'll get a scene with Emma and Brennan Jones:

 

Emma: Eyes are up here, Buddy.

Brennan: A thousand pardons, m'lady. Brennan Jones, at your service. While the setting is... undeniably lovely, t'was your ring that caught my attention."

 

Something of that sort maybe?

[kili]

Hook’s darkness could be attracted to Zelena’s evil side, making for a love triangle that will surely end in bloodshed.

So, that's why Dark One Hook was looking for Merlin during the voice-mail session. Hook wanted to steal the Idiot Ball.

 

I hope this is speculation because surely A&E has figured out that love triangles are about as popular as rabid rats at a children's birthday party.

 

Hook could also use his friendship with Robin to convince everyone to band together against Emma.

Hook better hand Robin the idiot ball if he wants Robin to side with Dark One him....oh, wait. Robin typically has his own Idiot Ball for just such occasions. 

 

and in turn, threatening or hurting Belle (Emilie de Ravin)

Yes, let's go to that well again.  Hook harming Belle never gets old. He should wipe her memory while he's at it because it's been a few episodes since anybody has done that. Who cares about Belle as a person? Let's just hurt her to get back at Gold. He's mortal. He can be hurt in the usual ways. No need to torment the women who loves him. Loving him is painful enough. Plus, she just got attacked by a bear sent by Emma. She deserves a few days rest.

 

Mary Margaret (Ginnifer Goodwin) and David (Josh Dallas) will do anything to protect their daughter,

Really? i must have been watching a different show. What time is that show on? I'd love to see parents who are willing to try anything to protect their daughter. The show I'm watching has parents who teach villains how to dance, throw street parties and worry about getting good seats at tables instead of trying to help their daughter. This other show sounds better.

 

The ultimate bait for Emma to surrender would be her son. Henry (Jared Gilmore) trusts Hook, and if Emma doesn’t warn him, he could be caught in the crossfire.

Sure, go for that. Who doesn't love to watch a show where a women puts the love of her new man in front of her child who he is trying  to harm. I can totally see why she takes Henry to the Underworld to save Hook after that.  Maybe they can bring Cruella back while they are at it in case Snowflakes needs a new nanny.

 

I'm going to need to go to the liquor store before the next episode, aren't I? 

 

Sure this could all be speculation, but given how this arc seems to be trending, none of this seems all that unrealistic.

[Shanna Marie]

I took that article as pure speculation, no more informed (and perhaps less informed, since it doesn't even seem to be based on spoilers) as the discussion here. You notice that absolutely none of the article was in any way attributed, aside from one (rather old) quote near the beginning. The only difference between that article and a post here was that the person who wrote it was presumably paid for their work.

 

Fortunately, I have a full bottle of rum and a full bottle of amaretto, plus plenty of wine, so I will be prepared for the next episode. I just hope I won't still be taking cold and allergy medicine by then so I will be allowed to drink.

[BoPeeps]

"immediacy" (as mentioned, JMo chooses it wisely)

Key word.

 

First off, Hook is pissed, volatile and passionately lashing out through the damned darkness. Not surprising. This is not a man who takes anything lightly, even his snark!  But A&E are sneaky-notorious for pinpointing one sentence or one brief act then after pages and pages of filler, rambling episodes full of character misdirection and disingenuous story adjusting, zeroing back in on that one tiny moment to prove all the off the wall WTFness is actually a brilliant progression and true to the story. Then, after habitually screwing with the loyalist of viewers, they wrap something up in 26 seconds and think it is just fine, thanks.  They do what they want and mess things up beyond logical comprehension, then turn on a dime because they can.

 

The best spoilers have always come from the on-site fans. The professionals are just too cagey or precious. It's what they do to generate attention.

 

Don't expect sense.

I plan on enjoying the visuals while I have them.

(but the Amaretto sounds doable~grin)

[Shanna Marie]

Didn't one of the set stalkers say something about Hook sacrificing himself? Now I'll have to go back and see if I can find that post.

 

Ah, this one, but I think he later clarified that it was a theory. Not sure which part was theory and which part was based on observation -- did he see Hook die and presume it was a sacrifice, did he know it was a sacrifice and was theorizing about the ring? Was even the death a theory? The way it's phrased here, it sounds like he knew what happens and he was just guessing about the ring, which we now know is accurate.

[Souris]

That THR article was 100% speculation, and mostly silly at that. A love triangle with Zelena? Hook using his friendship with Robin to turn everyone against Emma? Come on. I'm kind of offended somebody got paid for that nonsense.

[Mathius]

Where's Dark Hook gonna find the time to court Zelena?  He's only got one and a half episodes!

[formerlyfreedom]

Yeah, in reading at the THR article posted in the Spoilers Only topic, that isn't a spoiler-y article. Let's be sure we're posting stuff in the right place please. Straight news or news with a bit of speculation (like that one) should go in the Media topic.

 

Thanks, and please resume posting!

 

 

[Hookian]

Where's Dark Hook gonna find the time to court Zelena?  He's only got one and a half episodes!

 

It was speculation piece pay no mind. Dark Hook only lasts like an episode and a half like you said then he dies destroying the darkness and then the others are off to the UW to save him.

[kitticup]

I just had an idea. Maybe Hook raised the other dark ones and has them marking everyone so that he can have all the marked ones turn into Dark ones. In his anger, I could see him lashing out like that.

Edited to correct auto correct.

Edited November 21, 2015 by kitticup

[Shanna Marie]

Taking a stab at some more informed speculation, based on what we know ...

 

The big question mark is what happened in Camelot. Obviously, none of the major characters are dead, but Merlin is suspiciously absent and they got his voice mail. There was Head Rumple's line about Emma crushing Hook's heart "again" and the remark in an interview about how Emma has "a" heart in her chest. Brace yourselves, folks, I'm afraid we're in for another heart splitting because these are environmentally conscious writers who believe in recycling. Maybe they consider it foreshadowing and payoff. But anyway, perhaps Emma cast the curse by crushing Hook's heart and then splitting hers with him.

 

As for the Storybrooke outcome, we know that Emma is back to normal and wearing Hook's (Liam's) ring around her neck, and it appears that she, Regina, her parents, and Henry are going on a mission to find Hook, which suggests that they didn't put him down like a rabid dog after he caused terrible death and destruction. Even if Emma loved who he once was, would they really go to great lengths to save him if he'd died as a villain? I mean, it's not like he's Regina. The fact that Emma is normal means she was able to be saved, so either he did something that helped her at sacrifice to himself, or whatever they did to help her didn't work on him, or they didn't get to him in time (which might result in enough feeling of obligation to save him).

 

We know Rumple is still alive and seems to possess all his major body parts, and Belle is still alive, so Hook couldn't have gone too nuts as the Dark One in Storybrooke. If he had all that power while Rumple was weak and helpless, would Rumple stand a chance if Hook even tried to hurt him? And if Hook had all that power after centuries of wanting revenge, and after all the stuff Rumple did to him after their truce, if he wimped out on doing any real damage with that idea of "he'll hurt more if I keep him alive to suffer" then he's the lamest Dark One ever. And if he didn't do serious harm to Rumple, then chances are he didn't do serious harm to anyone else. So either they very quickly found a way to control Dark Hook or he managed to pull himself back from the brink.

[HoodlumSheep]

Lancelot didn't come to storybrooke either. But I doubt he was involved in the curse casting because Guinevere is still sanded.

He's also been missing since they broke him out of jail. I like to think that he and Grumpy went on a failed mission to de-sand Guinevere while everyone has been busy with Arthur all this time. Either that, or they need to explain he's been in hiding or something. I'm going to be miffed if he and Grumpy suddenly appear with the gang back in Camelot. Even if they were tasked with babysitting duty, they should have been present during all the diner scenes.

>: (

[YaddaYadda]

Lancelot should've stayed dead in the present.

[oliverwendell]

 

There was Head Rumple's line about Emma crushing Hook's heart "again" and the remark in an interview about how Emma has "a" heart in her chest.

 

I agree these could be breadcrumbs pointing to a heart crushing and a subsequent heart splitting. But I don't think that's what happened. What head-Rumple actually says is, "You crushed Hook's heart even more firmly under your impractical boot heel." That language ("even more firmly" instead of "again") I think could imply the metaphorical crushing Emma pulled by turning Hook into the Dark One against his wishes. Also, I can't find that question and answer about Emma's heart, but I seem to remember the question was "Does Emma have a heart" not "Does Emma have her heart," so A&E's answer "Yes" isn't really a case of them being coy about whose heart it is. Maybe someone can confirm?

 

Here's my current spec: since Dark Ones are immortal, could Hook be alive without any heart at all in Storybrooke? Here's how it would go down:

 

(1) Hook does evil, terrible, no-good things in Camelot as the Dark One;

(2) Emma realizes tethering him to the sword was a terrible, selfish mistake;

(3) She decides to correct that mistake by enacting the Dark Curse using his heart, knowing he will survive without it as long as he's the Dark One and knowing that, once everyone's back to Storybrooke, she can figure out how to get the Darkness out of both of them.

 

If that's the case, though, her plan to take the Darkness out of him in Storybrooke would be all kinds of tragic, because she knows he'll die if she does. But it's also kind of beautiful, because it would mean she loved him enough in the end to give him the death he wanted -- as a redeemed man, a hero -- back in the field of flowers. There would also be the added bonus in her mind of no one in Storybrooke remembering any of his evil, Dark One deeds, so he would be mourned as a fallen hero and remembered that way in the eyes of Henry, her parents, and everyone else. (Of course, being as how she's also a Dark One at the moment, she's willing to kill Zelena to accomplish this otherwise loving act.) 

 

Or...maybe she's planning to pull a heart-splitting trick super fast right after she removes the Darkness from both of them in Storybrooke. 

[RadioGirl27]

We are all trying to speculate thinking that Hook is something more than just a prop in this situation. What is happening has nothing to do with him. This is about Emma doing what Merlin couldn’t do and killing the love of her life to destroy the darkness. Hence turning Hook into a Dark One and having him embracing the darkness immediately, without struggle, pushing Emma to kill him in the half-season finale. Hook and his redemption arc are just collateral damage in this story.

[YaddaYadda]

I agree these could be breadcrumbs pointing to a heart crushing and a subsequent heart splitting. But I don't think that's what happened. What head-Rumple actually says is, "You crushed Hook's heart even more firmly under your impractical boot heel." That language ("even more firmly" instead of "again") I think could imply the metaphorical crushing Emma pulled by turning Hook into the Dark One against his wishes. Also, I can't find that question and answer about Emma's heart, but I seem to remember the question was "Does Emma have a heart" not "Does Emma have her heart," so A&E's answer "Yes" isn't really a case of them being coy about whose heart it is. Maybe someone can confirm?

 

 

This happened during or right after NYCC, A&E were asked about it, and they said exactly what you wrote.

 

ETA  - 

Jane tweeted after episode 5x04, I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong), that Hook's heart was on the line or something like that.

Edited November 21, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[kili]

Lancelot didn't come to storybrooke either. But I doubt he was involved in the curse casting because Guinevere is still sanded.

But if Lancelot is the one that Guinevere loves the most, couldn't Arthur make a sanded Guinevere use his heart to cast the curse? Zelena brews up the potion, rips out Lancelot's heart and Guinevere does the actual crushing like Snow did. It would also pay-off the Griff scene where we see Arthur use his influence to easily convince somebody to do something for Camelot's greater good (we already knew that Arthur was evil by that time, so learning that wasn't the pay-off) due to the sand's effects.

 

Lancelot must have been brought back for a reason. If he was just brought back to create the "Who do we trust more" situation, that is kind of lame (there must have been other ways to set up the "reveal everything and get sanded" scenario).  He has had nothing to do since then (except be broken out of prison which was originally a cool scene, but is now kind of lame since they didn't grab Excalibur while they were doing the raid, Lancelot  hasn't been seen since and Merida's sudden disappearance was noticed by nobody). But having him be the sacrificial heart while we are wondering whose loved one died would be a twist the writer's like. 

 

Arthur cast the curse because he had no other way of getting back the dagger/sword (he is desperate), so he's throwing a Hail Mary pass which Emma intercepted by taking everybody's memory. The sword ended up in the stone at some point to stop Dark Hook or some such reason.

 

Sure, killing the only two African-Americans during the same episode is problematic, but the writer's are tone deaf and would never have noticed  that.

 

But, it is probably a heart-split and that is the "get out of death" card they are going to play. Of course, it makes Hook like an even bigger douche for hating on Emma after she turned dark for him and then gave her half his heart, but I'm resigned to Hook being a giant douche because his character's sacrifice was necessary for such an "amazing story" A&E.

Edited November 21, 2015 by kili

[YaddaYadda]

Lancelot has been a complete non factor thus far, I don't even know why they brought him back. Why would he suddenly become an important piece of the puzzle? Yeah, I think it's TS, TW, but still, this is a stretch even for them.

 

And how would Guinevere casting the curse make sense if she's doing it under someone's control AND doesn't remember loving Lancelot, if she actually loved him, because that whole episode looked like Lancelot loved Guinevere, and she loved him as a friend, or whatever feelings they were trying to convey.

[Shanna Marie]

Jane tweeted after episode 5x04, I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong), that Hook's heart was on the line or something like that.

 

This was it:

@Thedocsgal1013 @lennie_pirate1 his heart is on the line.  And maybe... Oh, i better not say too much.

So is the "and maybe" about more to do with his heart, or something else that's on the line, like his soul?

 

Lancelot must have been brought back for a reason. If he was just brought back to create the "Who do we trust more" situation, that is kind of lame (there must have been other ways to set up the "reveal everything and get sanded" scenario).  He has had nothing to do since then (except be broken out of prison which was originally a cool scene, but is now kind of lame since they didn't grab Excalibur while they were doing the raid, Lancelot  hasn't been seen since and Merida's sudden disappearance was noticed by nobody).

That would be par for the course on this show, where dropped plot threads are what's for breakfast. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they did bring Lancelot back just for the sanding storyline and used the prison break as an excuse to set up the Merida story, then promptly forgot that Lancelot existed because he had no bearing on the plot anymore. It's really weird that they wasted their chance to get in and out of Camelot on breaking Lancelot out of the dungeon instead of getting Excalibur when there doesn't seem to have been any pressing need for them to have Lancelot.

 

Though one thing that may come into play is the fact that without their memories, they don't even know to be wondering where Lancelot is. They already thought he was dead, so no one's going to be saying, "Hey, has anyone seen Lance? Did he come over with the curse?" That means he could either be a wild card who managed to escape the curse, or something else could have happened to him. That is, if he was ever anything more than a plot device.

[BoPeeps]

Loss of two nights sleep does very hinky things to my head...BINGE watching other series on HULU and Netflix is a very destructive habit (grin)

Someone please refresh my sleep deprived brain...Regina had a line about *coming here to get your pirate...*.

That was a quote from a set spoiler or something else?

 

If the quote is real...all indications are that  Emma loses the platinum bun, regains her red coat, stows away in the boat to the Underworld to *work her way back to her Babe*...(was it established/speculated that Hook's father was manning that pleasure cruise to hell and perhaps recognized the ring around her neck? Or was that just my imagination running away with me? ~ah another song lyric!) and Hook will finally get the respect he has earned by being the subject of the group rescue.

 

We have had casting reports that a gob of selective ghosts will be returning for the afterlife party, which should be massive fun as well as plottishly infuriating. So apparently Hook is residing there and a good guess would be he is quite redeemable and able to get back to season 5B in some sort of cured life form so that they can give that house with a longshot sea view some decent furnishings. Maybe it is just a stone's throw from the empty and fairly useless mystery Merlin mansion where all the neglected props from past episodes are stored.

 

Random brain thoughts:

*Hook pre-Emma was still a dashing and charming rapscallion with that highly visible clenching jaw. I'm guessing he will now lose some of that droll charm and go ultra angsty. A joy for those of us who love Colin's acting but still pissing me off in the scheme of screwing around with steady, intelligent redemption!

*Is there rum in the Underworld?

*I also figured Hook's anger at being thrown back into the darkness might give him a pretty serious Death Wish to undo the torment....thus the battle with Rumple., or anyone who might be able to kill him and put him out of his outrageously undeserved, smoldering misery.

*The speculated camaraderie with Zelena is too putrid to even dwell on for more than the three seconds it took me to read that and gag repeatedly.

*the little bits and pieces of almost obscured foreshadowing and detail...like designs on rings, pictures on walls, shields, tattoos, etc. are clever but what appears on the screen is often just so fucking pointless.

*what happened to the whimsy of this show?

*who is manning the daycare?

 

I need a nap.

Go Hook, Go Emma. Please survive this hell :)

[kili]

Lancelot has been a complete non factor thus far, I don't even know why they brought him back. Why would he suddenly become an important piece of the puzzle? Yeah, I think it's TS, TW, but still, this is a stretch even for them.

True, with this show it is difficult to discern whether they are foreshadowing or dropping plots. Dropping plots are the common scenario, so Lancelot's probably dropped. They couldn't even be bother to have him walking around SB, because he story was done once he served as the plot device to get Merida out of prison (hint to writers - I think that concentrating on Lancelot and giving him something to do might have been more interesting than all the Merida nonsense which has not fit in well with the season at all. Lancelot could have been questing for a sand cure and had adventures just like Merida). 

 

Although, after last year's gauntlet in the 4A finale, it's probably Wilma Flinstone who use's Fred's heart to cast the curse to send the Dark Ones away from their stone circle. They will be introduced at the 15 minute mark in 511 and will not be mentioned again until season 6.

[KingOfHearts]

Lancelot is fulfilling the same role August did in 4B. He was just there for exposition. (and the, "OMG x from x season is back" factor.) He's just semi-relevant because of his relationship with Guinevere and knighthood. Sort of like how August had a little chat with the Apprentice about the Author.

 

 

It's the same thing with grumpy too.

Didn't a couple of the other dwarves go too? I thought we saw Doc in 5x01.

Edited November 21, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

True, with this show it is difficult to discern whether they are foreshadowing or dropping plots. Dropping plots are the common scenario, so Lancelot's probably dropped. They couldn't even be bother to have him walking around SB, because he story was done once he served as the plot device to get Merida out of prison (hint to writers - I think that concentrating on Lancelot and giving him something to do might have been more interesting than all the Merida nonsense which has not fit in well with the season at all. Lancelot could have been questing for a sand cure and had adventures just like Merida).

It's the same thing with grumpy too. That's why I've headcanoned that he and Lancelot are off on secret mission (cue: secret, secret, hush hush hush). Like, they even gave grumpy a line about wanting to be included. He went to the ball and then vanished. Can they not afford having the actor stand in the background for an ep or so? Why couldn't it have been grumpy and not doc in that scene where they were all huddled around hook?

Blah.

[Watt]

Two things. First, I found out a few weeks ago that I'm pregnant, and found out last week I'm pregnant with twins. Second, my nausea and hormones can not take this nonsense of evil hook. I'm grateful for all of you who are offering up theories that don't make me want to pregnancy rage quit this show. Xox