Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

Well, the next episode doesn't interest me much, since it seems focused on Dibny's superhero training and multiple Harrys.

Photos and the promo for 4.06 are out:

Ha! Did they bring back that random mugger from Season 1?!

[Trini]

'Grant Gustin Previews Barry/Iris Wedding':

Quote

"It's a comic book wedding, so it's classic," teased Gustin. "It's beautiful. But obviously, things aren't going to be perfect. Something's going to happen. But it's classical, it's classic beautiful wedding. It's cool."

According to Arrowverse set designer Tyler Bishop Harron, the set design team built a massive cathedral set for the crossover, a fact that Gustin, too, mentioned during our interview.

"It's on this set too that... they told me how much they spent to build it but I'm not going to repeat that," said Gustin. "It was in a warehouse soundstage, it wasn't a real soundstage. It was in this warehouse that they built a church. It was insane. You thought you were in a real church and it was beautiful. I'm excited for everyone to see it."

Sounds like it's pretty nice before things get interrupted.
 

Quote

"We've been leading up to this wedding for a long time. It's, in some ways, fitting that it's part of the crossover because it's also a little strange that we've been leading up to this wedding and it's not even on The Flash. It's technically on a different show."

But it's also how [The Flash] started, this show started on Arrow. We've consistently had these crossovers and we're bringing so many characters together for this wedding, it's kind of fitting that it happens somewhere else.

I disagree with you there, Grant. It's a milestone that should be happening on The Flash.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Trini

[RedVitC]

For those who talked about this: Someone on Keiynan's live Instagram asked what made him take a break from the Flash, and he said, he realized he needed time for himself in general. That he needed time to figure things out (and that he did). He hasn't left. He said he's in Vancouver right now. but added 'I don't know what that means' so not sure if he's there for the Flash or what.

[Trini]

Do you have to have an instagram account to see that? I'm glad to hear something from Keiynan's side.

--------

When Amunet Will Return To The Flash, According To Katee Sackhoff:

Quote

She sort of just walks off into the sunset, like she'll be back. And she will be back. I feel like Amunet's kind of like a virus. Like she's just going to linger forever. I'm back in [Episode] 9, I'm back in 12 and 13, and potentially 14. I'm basically sort of, I get phone calls like, 'Does [Katee] want to come back for a few days?' And if I'm available, it's sort of like 'Sure!' And that's sort of just how the character's gonna keep evolving.

I wonder if episodes 12 and 13 will be the 2-parter this year? It's usually 13 and 14, but if she's definitely in those 2, maybe it's the same arc.

[ruby24]

Maybe they're looking at the scheduling for those episodes and planning the two-parter for earlier. The Winter Olympics are in February this year, so I'm guessing the show's going to be off for those two weeks in February. Looking at the calendar, I'm betting that the show will come back on January 16th and run for four episodes before the Olympics start. That would take it from episodes 10-13, so they could make those last two a two-parter. 

I always like seeing them go to different earths, I think they should do that again, with all evil doppelgängers of the characters, Barry and Iris included. That'd be fun.

[Trini]

Answering in the Ratings thread....

[RedVitC]

I'm not sure if you can see it without an Instagram account, sorry. I just looked and I don't think it's up anymore (Live videos stay for about 24 hours I think). But knowing the fandom, somebody has probably downloaded and saved it.

[RedVitC]

Crossover Synopsis (x)

Quote

 

“Crisis on Earth X, Part 3” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

THE EPIC FOUR-WAY CROSSOVER WITH “ARROW,” “SUPERGIRL,” “THE FLASH” AND “DC’S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW” CONTINUES — Barry (Grant Gustin) and Iris’s (Candice Patton) wedding brings the gang together, but things go awry when villains from Earth-X attack the ceremony. All of the superheroes band together with help from their super friends like Citizen Cold (guest star Wentworth Miller), The Ray (guest star Russell Tovey), Felicity Smoak (guest star Emily Bett Rickards), Iris West and Alex Danvers (guest star Chyler Leigh) to take on their most formidable villains yet. Earth’s mightiest heroes – Green Arrow (guest star Stephen Amell), Supergirl (guest star Melissa Benoist), The Flash (Grant Gustin) and White Canary (guest star Caity Lotz) – lead their teams into battle to save the world. Dermott Downs directed the episode with story by Andrew Kreisberg & Marc Guggenheim and teleplay by Todd Helbing (#408).  Original airdate 11/28/2017.

 

All the other shows have the same synopsis. The only thing that changes is who wrote the Teleplay and who is a guest star etc (Iris apparently is a regular in every single Arrowverse show since she never has guest star behind her name ?)

[ruby24]

I was wondering if they might release an extended cut of the whole thing online. I know they'll have to cut a bunch of scenes, so that might be kinda cool, since it's a special event and all.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, RedVitC said:

with story by Andrew Kreisberg & Marc Guggenheim

I don't trust these two.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

 

I'm glad to hear that Iris gets to interact with a bunch of new characters!

Edited November 13, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

Matt's Inside Line:

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After first emerging from the Speed Force in the season opener, Barry “was talking all over the place,” Grant Gustin acknowledged during our set visit, “and elements of that will show up throughout the season — and may already have” (such as when Joe randomly uttered, “This house is bitchin'” to a contractor). “We’ll circle back, I would imagine, at some point this season and connect all of them for you. But yeah, that was all very important, everything he said at the beginning of the year.”

[Trini]

Photos are out for 4.07, "Therefore I Am":

... And it's already looking better than the last episode:

https://www.spoilertv.com/2017/11/the-flash-episode-407-therefore-i-am.html

[ruby24]

I just read the summary for 4x09. No mention of a honeymoon for Barry and Iris.

I'm calling it. If there's no love scene between them all the way through the winter finale, people need to badger the writer's twitter accounts and comment sections on TVLine, etc. to ask why they write them like roommates. They never kiss. They never show them in bed.

It's fucking BIZARRE. I'm back to thinking it's a conspiracy of some sort. They actively avoid having them be intimate and/or passionate, you cannot tell me otherwise.

Edited November 17, 2017 by ruby24

[Trini]

4.09 description:

Quote

“Don’t Run” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

KATEE SACKHOFF RETURNS AS AMUNET — Amunet (guest star Katie Sackhoff) kidnaps Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) and puts meta-dampener handcuffs on her to keep her from turning into Killer Frost. Amunet tells Caitlin she needs her to perform a tricky medical task and if Caitlin fails, Amunet will kill her. Meanwhile, The Thinker (guest star Neil Sandilands) traps The Flash (Grant Gustin) in a speedster-proof prison. With the clock ticking, The Team doesn’t have the time or resources to track both Caitlin and Barry so Iris (Candice Patton) is forced to choose who to save.

Stefan Pleszczynski directed the episode written by Sam Chalsen & Judalina Neira
(#409).  Original airdate 12/5/2017.

Oh great; TWO people get kidnapped.
Really, they don't have the resources? The team is more overpowered than it has ever been. Assuming they remember that Wally exists. And that Cisco's girlfriend can also 'vibe'.

But I'm curious about The Thinker locking up Barry; I thought that he still needed the Flash to fulfill some purpose - that was suggested in a few interviews.

------------------

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

I just read the summary for 4x09. No mention of a honeymoon for Barry and Iris.

If they have one at all, I was expecting it to happen offscreen; since these writers refuse to be great. ::Siiiiiiiiiiiiggghh::  Having little couple moments was definitely a bigger priority last season.

[Trini]

I hate how Comicbook.com chops up it's articles; but here are a few spoilery bits from the set visit interviews recently published:

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[Tom Cavanagh:] ...In the crossover, you'll see me playing Harry the Good, but, also, you'll see me play Eobard Thawne again, and sometimes those two facing off against each other. ...

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But even though Barry doesn't want things to get out of hand, Gustin said that Barry does start to get a little obsessed, leading to Barry starting to come apart a bit.

"We start to see him become … unravel slightly for the first time all season, because he's been pretty put together this year, positive. He starts to become a little obsessed with finding this guy and getting everyone to see and be on the same page as him and see that this our guy for sure," he explained. "But everyone else has their doubts for a while."

...

"Yeah," Gustin said. "Again, what I touched on earlier, why Barry's starting to get obsessed that this is our guy, he realizes that it's going to get dirty quick, and before it gets dirty he wants to get ahead of this guy. And then they start to realize what a challenging foe he's going to be and different than any other speedsters we've faced in the past. He's not a speedster, he's something we've never seen before. Things are going to take a dark turn quickly in the middle of the year."

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"I think she's super excited and happy for Joe," Patton said. "It's been a long time coming for him to have a relationship on the show. They're definitely older and going to have a newborn and that's a weird, strange thing. We'll delve into more of that as the season goes on. I think Iris is really excited to be a big sister. Maybe it will inspire her to want to have children sooner rather than later too."

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With Iris and Barry set to tie the knot, are wedding bells in the future for Joe and Cecile?

"That's not in the cards yet. But I'm assuming at some point we'll get married? I mean, we're about to have a baby so it's kind of like being married I guess," Martin said.

[Lady Calypso]

On 11/16/2017 at 10:20 PM, Trini said:

Oh great; TWO people get kidnapped.
Really, they don't have the resources? The team is more overpowered than it has ever been. Assuming they remember that Wally exists. And that Cisco's girlfriend can also 'vibe'.

I know. All they have to do is speed dial Wally, and say "hey, so we got an issue because Barry's captured and so is Caitlin so we need you to come and just help out for a minute. Ok? Thanks." Geez. Also, Cisco can hop over to see Jesse and get her help. They do have the resources; they just screwed themselves with multiple speedsters last season and need a plot-contrived reason for them not to be dialed right away. 

[cambridgeguy]

Crossover pictures

This is from the Supergirl forum but is obviously relevant here.  So who the heck are all of those people at the wedding? Maybe Barry and Iris invited everyone from the police department and newspaper because there's no way they have that many friends.

And Singh has to know the truth, right?  I can't see him being OK sitting next to Mick Rory otherwise.

[Trini]

The pics look great, and you can kinda get the story from them. The set for wedding looks great. ... And it's going to get blown up.

I'm concerned about how little Wally and Cisco seem to be involved. And yeah, I'd love to see the explanation they give for Heatwave since (I think) he's still a wanted criminal. And how much gel did they have to use on Grant's hair!
Tom C. is playing "Dark Flash" (according to the photo caption), so I'm interested in what happened to Barry Allen on Earth-X, and how Harrison Wells became a Flash.
 

8 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

And Singh has to know the truth, right?  I can't see him being OK sitting next to Mick Rory otherwise.

He HAS to know after this! I REFUSE to believe he doesn't know.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

Crossover promo leaked early:

[Trini]

'Crossover Photos: The Most Important Things We've Learned'

I'm guessing the person in the pipeline cell is the Earth-X version of Oliver.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

I still like the dress from 4.03 a little better -not really a fan of strapless- but the wedding dress is stunning on Candice!

Aw, Flash colors for the flowers! ?

[Trini]

Character Breakdowns Hint At New Metahumans

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

I'm concerned about how little Wally and Cisco seem to be involved. And yeah, I'd love to see the explanation they give for Heatwave since (I think) he's still a wanted criminal. And how much gel did they have to use on Grant's hair!

I think the issue with these crossovers is that they can't have every main character on all four shows be involved in a significant portion, especially when they're promoting this four episode event as a "four hour movie", instead of individual episodes. Characters will get shafted, even on their own show's portion of the crossover. Which, by the way, I dislike. The issue with having four shows in the universe is the crossover opportunities and how little they're utilized. For example, once again, Supergirl gets shafted because they're on a different Earth. At least we have Kara and Alex, plus Earth X Winn. And we've seen how Iris got shafted on the majority of the crossover events, besides the musical episode.

Wally should be involved more, but Cisco has played a significant part in many of the crossovers, so I'm fine if he's taking a backseat for someone like Iris to get more focus. I mean, Iris has barely been in the crossovers, so it's nice that she'll be so heavily involved. And at least Wally and Cisco are at the original wedding. I've seen shows who have left important characters out of episodes that have big events that they should have been at. 

Though I get the sense that they're going to be forcing characters who probably could have been replaced with others. Mick is an odd choice, but I wonder if it's because they simply can't bring Snart to the wedding and at least Mick started off on The Flash. 

[johntfs]

12 hours ago, Trini said:

And yeah, I'd love to see the explanation they give for Heatwave since (I think) he's still a wanted criminal.

He helped saved the world from the Dominator invasion in the last big crossover.  He probably got pardon from the (new) President at the end of that.

[SodaforceMaster]

I guess it’s too much to ask that the Thinker also enjoys Bell Biv Devoe music and we hear “Poison” during a Flash fight scene?

[Trini]

From TV Guide:

Quote

... What you might not know is that this wedding has another very mysterious guest whose intentions seem far less deadly than the other crashers. Keep your eye out for an adorably awkward caterer who approaches Barry to help calm any pre-wedding jitters, because this girl seems way too jazzed to be watching Iris (Candice Patton) and Barry (Grant Gustin) take their vows.

We've got our theories about who she is — not to mention what her connection to Barry and Iris could be — but we'll keep them to ourselves for now. The fact that she's played by Jessica Parker Kennedy (The Secret Circle) should give you a hint though.

 

I've seen speculations that she is a future descendant of Barry & Iris. The show has hinted at children before, but I actually don't want to see Iris pregnant any time soon.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Trini

[RedVitC]

Could this be Barry and Iris' daughter from the future!!! That would be so exciting! ~ cries happy tears ~

[ruby24]

The episode title from 4x12 has been released: it's called "Honey, I Shrunk Team Flash"

Omg, this will be hilarious. Everyone on the team gets shrunken?

By the way, they never released an episode title for 4x10- I wonder if this was an error and maybe they're actually an episode ahead of themselves by accident. Like maybe 4x10 is The Elongated Knight Rises and this new one is 4x11?

Grant has apparently had the scruff again for this last episode they've been filming, that could have something to do with being shrunken the whole time.

[Trini]

12 hours ago, ruby24 said:

The episode title from 4x12 has been released: it's called "Honey, I Shrunk Team Flash"

Probably more like leaked than released. If this is a real title, then I'm kinda dreading it, because their comedy efforts have been hit-or-miss so far this season.

=============

I hope the callback to the musical is Iris walking down the aisle to "Runnin' Home to You"! Since it looks like were not going to get that reception dance. ::sigh::

Interesting - there are several ways they can play this...

[Trini]

BTS crossover photo:

[RedVitC]

Some more tweets about the Crossover:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RedVitC]

Popping in to say happy crossover day!

[ruby24]

So, I wonder how this Dawn Allen thing is going to play out.

I still believe Bart Allen is the one who says this house is bitchin' eventually. So the question is still, how will he be related to Barry and Iris. Son or grandson?

If Dawn has been introduced, then the Tornado Twins are definitely in existence. Could Bart be their third child? That'd be a good way to simplify it. 

[Trini]

If they are really introducing Dawn, Bary & Iris' daughter, now I'm not so sure if we'll be seeing Bart so soon. Two future speedster kids in the same season? Might be too much. Especially when they can barely find time for Wally. I do think they'll eventually introduce Bart, but maybe not this season. On the other hand, no one knew about Dawn at the wedding a week ago, so who knows!

I think Bart will still be their grandson; I don't think they need to simplify like they did with Wally.

[Trini]

Recap of the wedding part of the crossover, but TVLine had this tidbit:

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... Also missing out: The mysterious waitress (played by Secret Circle‘s Jessica Parker Kennedy) who made quite an impression on viewers during Barry and Iris’ church ceremony, thanks to her striking resemblance to the bride and groom. Although she didn’t resurface during Parts 2-4, we will see the character again, TVLine has confirmed.

I think this kinda confirms she's a daughter, not granddaughter. I wonder if she's just going to be present for a few episodes, or if she'll play a part in the larger DeVoe/Thinker plot?

[Trini]

Photos for 4.09 are out; It's always interesting how the description, photos, and promo ads can all emphasize different things for an episode. I'm concerned about the lack of Wally in these pics.

[legaleagle53]

I'm honestly surprised that Ralph's costume doesn't reveal his package in a way that leaves very little to the imagination. I mean, could it be any tighter?

[CabotCove]

Quote

If Dawn has been introduced, then the Tornado Twins are definitely in existence. Could Bart be their third child? That'd be a good way to simplify it.

i prefer Bart being a grandchild, its simple enough to me. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by HeroLeague

[ruby24]

I kind of don't think that Grant Gustin was into that double wedding thing. He looked over it saying his vows, kind of lackluster even, which is very unusual for him. He was SO good in that church wedding scene though, which was filmed after this one. And he posted on instagram like ten times on the first night of the crossover, hyping the wedding, and then said like nothing about part two. 

Candice was actually better than him, reciting her vows. I don't see how anyone could have read that and thought Felicity literally interrupting them was a cool thing to do. I bet he thought it was lame.

[Trini]

The Christmas/mid-season finale episodes always have some big reveals:
Season 1 - Wells is the reverse Flash; Barry admits he loves Iris; Ronnie/Firestorm;
Season 2 - Wally is introduced; Harry is working with Zoom;
Season 3 - Barry & Iris' loft; Savitar's prophecy; the flashforward to Iris' death;

Guesses for this year?
I think we will definitely got more info on The Thinker's ultimate plan; but there's usually some type of interpersonal reveal or milestone, too. I'm just not sure which character it will be with. Barry & Iris just got married, so I'm not sure what else they would do the week after (yeah, I'm not holding out hope for a reception or honeymoon). Cynthia is supposed to make an appearance in 4.09; maybe she and Cisco exchange "I love you"s? Or Joe proposes to Cecile - I hope so, because if they're serious about this relationship and baby, I think they should just let them get hitched sooner rather than later. Wally, Caitlin, and Ralph don't have much going on.

[johntfs]

27 minutes ago, Trini said:

Wally, Caitlin, and Ralph don't have much going on.

In the above photo Caitlin appears to be in the middle of surgery (or some kind of medical procedure) with Amunet watching.  I think Caitlin has some shit going on.

Whatever The Thinker is planning, it doesn't seem like anything that's going to be imminently fatal to anyone on Team Flash.  While he's willing to take actions that indirectly put others in danger (like empowering a busload of new metahumans) DeVoe doesn't seem all that interested in killing anybody or even harming them that much.  Even the Samuroid just slapped Wally and Cisco around a little.  It didn't kill or cripple them.

On the other hand Amunet is fully willing to kill.  She killed two cops in her first appearance would have murdered Iris, Felicity, Cecile and Caitlin/Killer Frost if they hadn't gotten the upper hand on her. 

Whatever is happening with Barry and DeVoe, the person who is likely in the greatest immediate danger is Caitlin because of Amunet.

Edited December 1, 2017 by johntfs

[Trini]

3 minutes ago, johntfs said:

In the above photo Caitlin appears to be in the middle of surgery (or some kind of medical procedure) with Amunet watching.  I think Caitlin has some shit going on.

Right, she does have a subplot in this episode; I was talking about an interpersonal arc. They've already dealt with her Killer Frost duality for the most part, so I don't think they'll have anything else for her do.

8 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Whatever is happening with Barry and DeVoe, the person who is likely in the greatest immediate danger is Caitlin because of Amunet.

True..

[Trini]

I thought all the future children references was hinting at Iris getting pregnant soon, but with the intro of Dawn(?), maybe it was just to hint at her appearances this season. I think it's too soon for Iris to be pregnant on the show.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Trini

[ruby24]

Yeah, I'm not sure myself on that. I feel like they're definitely dropping all kinds of hints lately (and the show's not subtle, lol). It could be because of the upcoming appearance of Dawn (and maybe Don too), but what about the "diapers" line from Barry in the premiere? They did not want us miss that one, they even had Cisco repeat it.

I wouldn't be too surprised if Iris was pregnant by the end of the season, tbh. And thinking ahead, having a big birth episode take place on the show's 100th episode next season would seem pretty fitting.

The only question is what to do after that, because saddling them with infant twins when there's at least a few seasons left could be problematic. On the other hand, they don't have to be onscreen that much (Cecile, as a new mom herself, would be a convenient character to have around in that case).

I'm 50/50 on it. I could see it happening, yet I guess I could also see them putting it off. Not sure. Either way, I know they're going to be introducing the descendants from the future pretty soon, and for seasons to come. There's a bunch of them that can now show up.

[ruby24]

Grant's beard is still there. I'm starting to think Barry is arrested and in jail, and we're doing Trial of the Flash earlier than I thought. There was a selfie from Candice with her and Danielle Nicolet the other day, and it looked like they're in a courthouse.

[Trini]

They don't let him shave in jail?? ?
But seriously, they let him keep it for the premiere, it shouldn't be back.

But besides him being in jail, maybe something else traumatic happens to Barry? I don't know; it would be a real departure for the show to sideline Barry/Flash for more than an episode or two. They couldn't even have him gone for half the episode in the season premiere (when it would have made sense!).
 

39 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

There was a selfie from Candice with her and Danielle Nicolet the other day, and it looked like they're in a courthouse.

I think I saw the one you're talking about, but it looked like Jitters to me.

[Trini]

TV Line speculation: A Closer Look at the Waitress' Warning for Barry

I do think her touching Barry is important; but I'm not sold on the "I do" being important. I guess we'll see.

[DearEvette]

I read that, I am of two minds.

1) They may have some insider info and therefore is floating this theory in order to later say "see...we were right"

2) They are making too much of a grand conspiracy theory of a smallish scene.  The show could have just been emphasizing the waitress in such a way to make sure the people in the cheap seats in the back realize that she was someone way more important than just a random waitress at a wedding.  Since most people guessed that she was a descendant, possibly Iris and Barry's daughter, the overemphasis of her on the scene is mission accomplished.

[Trini]

7 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

 

2) They are making too much of a grand conspiracy theory of a smallish scene. 

This is where I'm at, because I don't think he has any solid info on her (besides that she will show up again).