Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

I guess 'yay' they're addressing the Killer Frost mess; but BOO to Caitlin/Frost still being separate even though that contradicts her last scene in Season 3. And OF COURSE Iris is the most forgiving person ever, even though Caitlin keeps proving herself untrustworthy.  ::SIGH::

[Trini]

Episode 4.06 description:

Quote

"When Harry Met Harry... "

ONE HARRY, TWO HARRYS, THREE HARRYS, FOUR - When collectors of Native American artifacts are attacked by a meta named Mina Chayton (guest star Chelsea Kurtz) who can bring inanimate objects to life, Barry (Grant Gustin) turns to a surprising ally for help. Determined to crack the identity of The Thinker, Harry (Tom Cavanagh) enlists Cisco's (Carlos Valdes) help to summon the ultimate think tank: "The Council of Wells'," a roundtable of the brightest Harrison Wells' from various Earths.

Brent Crowell directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza
(#406). Original airdate 11/14/2017.

 

Quote

... Harry enlists Cisco's help to summon the ultimate think tank: "The Council of Wells'," a roundtable of the brightest Harrison Wells' from various Earths.

They did this joke already last season. I preemptively hate this episode.

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... Barry turns to a surprising ally for help. ...

Dibney? Since they start as rivals? Or another meta? Or someone from Legends?

[Mellowyellow]

OMG More multiples Wells???? I'm sold!!!!!!! Yaaaaay!!!!!!! That will never get old! 

[johntfs]

Am I the only one thinking about "The Council of Ricks?"

[Trini]

Cecile isn't mentioned in the descriptions of the next 3 episodes -- is this pregnancy really happening? On the other hand, if this pregnancy is a C-plot, it might not get mentioned.

[ruby24]

I saw the full pap video of the double wedding. There's no sound but it looks like it's at least a five minute scene. The bad thing is that you can see Barry talking directly to Iris for a LONG time in it, and then you see Iris respond, so that makes me think we're not getting to their vows in the church wedding, it won't happen until this shitty double wedding at the end. No one will hear or see their vows except Diggle, Oliver and Felicity, who aren't even on their show. UGHHH!!

And then they've got to stand there and awkwardly wait for O/F to say stuff to each other after that, as if they're the equivalent to them. Bullshit. This whole thing cheapens their marriage by equating it to a non-comics canon couple, a fake one.

I'm so mad.

[WindofChange]

12 hours ago, ruby24 said:

This whole thing cheapens their marriage

A wedding ceremony shouldn't cheapen an entire marriage. And if it does then maybe that relationship isn't as iconic/great as some think it is. 

Also, saying a non-comic couple is fake and therefore it isn't equal to a comic canon one is a really shallow and ineffective argument. 

Edited October 28, 2017 by WindofChange

[XC-TF]

What I liked about the last episode, it was kind of funny that Wally said he didn't matter because no one noticed he was there.  I've felt similar.

 

5 hours ago, WindofChange said:

A wedding ceremony shouldn't cheapen an entire marriage. And if it does then maybe that relationship isn't as iconic/great as some think it is. 

Also, saying a non-comic couple is fake and therefore it isn't equal to a comic canon one is a really shallow and ineffective argument. 

It felt more like they want it to be ceremonial.  The wedding definitely feels like a mid-season finale but it could happen before.

 

On 10/27/2017 at 1:53 AM, Mellowyellow said:

OMG More multiples Wells???? I'm sold!!!!!!! Yaaaaay!!!!!!! That will never get old! 

Wells is definitely one of my favorite characters.  Though why did he sound like he smoked 6 packs a day for years?  It took me out of the show.

 

On 10/26/2017 at 6:28 PM, Trini said:

I guess 'yay' they're addressing the Killer Frost mess; but BOO to Caitlin/Frost still being separate even though that contradicts her last scene in Season 3. And OF COURSE Iris is the most forgiving person ever, even though Caitlin keeps proving herself untrustworthy.  ::SIGH::

YUP.  Definitely feels like the show writers want their cake and eat it, too.  This whole season feels really safe.  At least the big villain isn't a speedster. 

[ruby24]

I think whatever happens with this Joe and Cecile baby, it will be used as foreshadowing for Barry and Iris's kids. I just wonder if they're building up to Iris being pregnant in the season finale.

The thing about that is that means when the show comes back she'd be like 7-8 months pregnant already, and probably give birth near or in the mid-season finale. I'd prefer to see all the pregnancy stages.

[Trini]

Photos are out for 4.05, "Girls Night Out"!

[Trini]

From the photos, I'm guessing that they somehow dampen Barry's powers so he can get drunk. (Instead of like in Season 1 where they made some "super alcohol".)

Really looking forward to an episode where the women save the day. Not looking forward to Killer Frost.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Trini

[ruby24]

Yeah, that makes sense. I thought Cisco might have come up with some special drink for him, since it looks like he's the only one who's drunk. But it make sense that his powers have to be dampened.

[RedVitC]

I don’t think it cheapens them. Why would their entire relationship be put into question because of the way the wedding goes down? While I love that Barry and Iris have a long comics history (it’s really cool to read about all their stuff from the past), I’m not sure why the fact that Felicity and Oliver are not a comic couple would cheapen things. In the DCTV continuity they’re a solid couple. They’re clearly THE couple on Arrow.

In the continuity of the shows, and in the Arrowverse Barry/Iris and Oliver/Felicity are pretty much the biggest couples. They set up that they’re equivalent back in the first crossover with the ‘guys like us don’t get the girl’ thing. So it’ll be THE Flash couple and THE Arrow couple side by side. So having them share a wedding doesn't do a disservice to either imo

Barry and Iris are awesome, because they’re awesome on the show. Not because they’re a comic canon couple. I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me I fell in love with Barry and Iris on TV and only then did I start reading comics because of that. I totally get respecting the source material, there's some great stuff, and I think there’s a lot to be said for it on The Flash especially in terms of its importance because they racebended Iris*, but I don’t think just the fact that something is comics canon somehow makes it inherently better. (And if anything to me the whole 'big wedding that gets crashed by villains and has many surprises, including a double wedding' sounds exactly like something that could happen in a comic-book).

I’m not crazy about a double wedding in non-wedding clothes just after a funeral, but that’s another thing altogether ;)

 

*I wrote about my feelings on this on one of the boards maybe last year. Pasting it here instead of finding new ways to say the same thing ;)

I'm not a stickler for comic canon per se (I like Olicity after all) but knowing the way WOC get treated on TV shows and in fandom, especially when they are also love interests, I'll say that I do find some comfort in the idea that it’s not just that Iris is married to Barry but that Iris is the matriarch of the Flash family (though there are no guarantees of course). They have speedster children with their own stories and grandchildren with their own popular stories. Bart Allen in particular is pretty popular, I’m sure he’ll pop up at some point. To me keeping this part about the characters is not even about canon, it’s about responsibility when you take a character like Iris and change her race: Making Iris West black, and making a big deal about it in terms of ‘we have great representation! Look at us!' and then turning around and giving that role, that family, those children to another woman, especially a white woman, would be extremely offensive on so many levels.

[RedVitC]

Katee Sackhoff talked about her character (Amunet) for a bit during a con:

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by RedVitC

[ruby24]

Barry and Iris won't get to say their vows in front of anyone on their own show. Not even Joe is there to see them marry.

I think that's wrong. And because it's a ridiculous double wedding, if people are going to say their own vows then the couple who goes first has to just stand there like dummies waiting for the second couple to talk right after they've professed their love, they can't even kiss or embrace, they just have to wait and listen to other people talk like idiots. So awkward.

And it does equate the two couples in importance, which I REALLY disapprove of.

By the way, I understand that Arrow is doing a big reception or something in the next episode, and I get that, because them tying the knot is going to come out of nowhere, with no prep or anything. I get why they'd want to do something to acknowledge and celebrate it on their own show.

But I bet we're not getting anything for Barry and Iris in the Flash Christmas episode, because they'll consider the build-up to the spoiled ceremony all that they deserve. And that SUCKS, because no one on their own show even saw them get married! They don't get a reception, they don't get shit.

Edited October 29, 2017 by ruby24

[RedVitC]

But... they are of equal importance to their respective shows. Barry and Oliver are the titular heroes and Iris and Felicity are by the narrative their big loves.

The thing is, we don't know how the Christmas episode will go down. We don't know what will happen. We don't have that much info for that episode yet. There's always a Christmas party, so maybe they'll tie that into an after wedding celebration. Or maybe we'll see them try to leave for their honeymoon the entire episode. Over the last couple of years I've seen people in fandom get  really mad at things(some of the angst before the musical episode...man. People were getting mad at other people's theories etc) only for the episode to be delightful or for whatever storyline not to be a big deal. 

I'm not saying don't feel what you feel, you feel what you feel of course. And I don't always follow my own advice since I do worry about certain storylines etc. lol . But there's a little more than 5 weekts to go, why rob myself of the joy of the anticipation of my favorite couple getting married just because it might not be 100% perfect or what I would have wanted for them? Especially since it's already been written and shot. There is so much to look forward to imo.  I mean, they're getting married! I think of how sad I was feeling 2 seasons ago during 2a and well...

[Trini]

I'm trying to avoid set pics, etc. as much as I can, so I can't comment on that. But this is one of the (many) reasons that this double wedding is a bad idea -- it does force comparisons between the couples; when they really don't have much to do with each other.

But I do think since both couples are the main couples on each of their show, that is a disservice for them to have to share their big wedding moment.

[BkWurm1]

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And then they've got to stand there and awkwardly wait for O/F to say stuff to each other after that, as if they're the equivalent to them. Bullshit. This whole thing cheapens their marriage by equating it to a non-comics canon couple, a fake one.

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I'm trying to avoid set pics, etc. as much as I can, so I can't comment on that. But this is one of the (many) reasons that this double wedding is a bad idea -- it does force comparisons between the couples; when they really don't have much to do with each other.

But I do think since both couples are the main couples on each of their show, that is a disservice for them to have to share their big wedding moment.

Perhaps it will shorten the time spent on each couple during the wedding (though we don't really know they'd get more on their own) but I can't imagine thinking another couple also getting married would make me think or feel my ship is less special. 

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And it does equate the two couples in importance, which I REALLY disapprove of

Why wouldn't they be considered on the same level?  It's not like they are putting Iris and Barry on the same level as say Ray and Kendra from Legends or even Nate and Amaya.  Olicity is a big time ship even outside of the Arrowverse.  It's been THE ship on Arrow for longer than The Flash has been on the air.  It's won independent awards for its popularity multiple years in a row.  Love em or hate em, it's no fly by night thing.  Oliver's never sang a her a love song, but dude's last thought as his life was flashing before his eyes was of Felicity.  He called her his "always" AFTER she gave back the engagement ring.  They aren't a couple shaped by "destiny" but theirs is a big epic love and WestAllen can proudly stand beside them knowing both relationships are so highly valued and well thought of. 

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 Barry and Iris won't get to say their vows in front of anyone on their own show. Not even Joe is there to see them marry.

And Felicity's parents and Oliver's sister aren't there either.  This ceremony isn't going to be about anyone but the couples.  Everything else is not that important.  What Barry says to Iris and Iris to Barry is all that really matters.  Same for Olicity.  The vows are for each other, it's not a show for anyone else. (well except us, lol) It IMO makes their vows more intimate and pure knowing they are speaking only to each other.   That they also get to forever be a part of something equally meaningful to some other dear friends, that's only going to add to their happiness.  People in love LOVE love.  It's only fitting that it's so full that it spills out and doubles.  :D

Edited October 29, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Trini]

30 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Why wouldn't they be considered on the same level? 

It's a matter of opinion, I think. I can see arguments for either 'yay' or 'nay'. I feel the double wedding (ugh) causes more problems than whatever logistics the showrunners thought it solved.

[BkWurm1]

I guess since the double wedding is a reality whether we wanted it or not, I'm of the mind to embrace all the good stuff at this point.  I mean, this really is good stuff for the fans of both couples to spend their time being thrilled over.   The perfect is the enemy of the good.  I'm going to wallow in the good.  :D  

Edited October 29, 2017 by BkWurm1

[SevenStars]

I don't like double weddings. I especially don't like double weddings that are not plan, that's tacky to me. As someone who never watched an episode of the Arrow, not even during the cross-overs ( No Iris, No me), I don't like that my favorite couple is having a double wedding with a couple I don't know or care about.  But it is what it is, I just hope they have something on Flash that celebrates this marriage. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by SevenStars

[Trini]

I hate that New Guy is apparently is a part of the bachelor party, and Wally isn't. And as always, bring back Linda!

---

So it looks like Dibney is let in on Barry's "secret" identity by 4.05; I wonder what happened to make Team Flash trust him, since the promos show that Barry and Joe think he's dirty.

[Featherhat]

It would have been nice if Linda had been able to come back since she's a shown on the screen good friend of the bride. 

I'm not exactly thrilled with the double wedding but it's happening and the pap video doesn't look bad at all for either couple, so I'm in hopeful wait and see mode for it making sense for the occasion. The original wedding has been well and truly ruined by then anyway. I'm sure The Flash will do something to celebrate the marriage, Joe will want to celebrate his son's marriage if nothing else. 

[SevenStars]

38 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

 Joe will want to celebrate his son's marriage if nothing else. 

Lmao, we all know who is Joe's favorite. It's sad but true. 

[Trini]

I think they've been a lot better about that since last season, though. Where there's been more father/daughter scenes with Joe than father/son scenes.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

I think they've been a lot better about that since last season, though. Where there's been more father/daughter scenes with Joe than father/son scenes.

Maybe I'm blanking, but apart from when Barry was not there or was still screwed up in the head, I don't recall Iris and Joe having any heart to hearts this year.  

[SevenStars]

15 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Maybe I'm blanking, but apart from when Barry was not there or was still screwed up in the head, I don't recall Iris and Joe having any heart to hearts this year.  

Same. When Barry is not there, Iris is Joe's favorite but when he comes back, it's him, Iris then Wally. 

[Trini]

There were Joe/Iris scenes in 4.01, 3.21, 3.22, 3.16, 3.17, 3.15 - at least. I'm just glad the show heard the concerns and addressed it.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

So, is this for The Flash? Are they making a mask for Dibney? Already??

Edited October 30, 2017 by Trini

[ruby24]

And he's doing that on a Sunday? 

Not too surprised, he does have to become Elongated Man soon.

[RedVitC]

Looks like Dibny will be part of the team sooner rather than later. Especially since from the promo pictures it looks like he'll be part of guys night out part of the 5th episode.

Edited October 30, 2017 by RedVitC

[quarks]

On 10/29/2017 at 2:36 AM, Trini said:

It's a matter of opinion, I think. I can see arguments for either 'yay' or 'nay'. I feel the double wedding (ugh) causes more problems than whatever logistics the showrunners thought it solved.

Those "logistics" include saving at least $400,000 on guest stars by combining the crossover/weddings, probably more. Notably, none of the Flash stars are popping over to Oliver/Felicity's wedding reception, even though Arrow consistently gets a bump in live numbers whenever they announce that Barry Allen is popping over, and Arrow could use the boost.  The problems caused?

Some complaints from invested fans.

I'm not thrilled with a crossover wedding either, to be clear - largely because I was hoping for more focus on Iris, and in last season's crossover episodes, pretty much no one other than Oliver got any focus at all - and even Oliver only got focus because that was Arrow's 100th episode. So I have no hopes that Iris will get a lot of focus in these episodes either, although at least she's finally getting to cross over to the other shows. All that said, though, these are very cheap shows that visibly struggle with budget issues in every single episode, so in Berlanti's situation, given the choice between saving that sort of money, and dealing with fan complaints, I probably would have made the same call.

[BkWurm1]

15 hours ago, Trini said:

There were Joe/Iris scenes in 4.01, 3.21, 3.22, 3.16, 3.17, 3.15 - at least. I'm just glad the show heard the concerns and addressed it.

Oh, okay.  When you said this year I thought you meant this season.

[RedVitC]

The Flash's Hartley Sawyer previews Elongated Man's debut

Quote

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Tell us about Ralph Dibny as a person, because the cast has teased that he’s sketchy and skeezy so far.
HARLEY SAWYER: Well, that’s all true, that’s all very true, but my perspective on it is a little different. Now, that’s all very true. Ralph was a cop and worked with Barry and was a very, very good cop and due to something that I don’t want to reveal because it will be in the episode, he’s no longer a cop when you meet him and he’s working as a private investigator. He’s really let himself go, so he’s just not really in a good place. Barry and everybody in the whole S.T.A.R. Labs team find out that he was on this bus. Barry knows him from years ago and Barry and I do not get along at all, so they go to meet Ralph and find out that Ralph has put on some weight and Ralph is not who he used to be. He’s very much down on his luck and working as a skeezy PI spying on people, but he has a connection to the mayor, which comes into play in that episode where the mayor has hired him to do some work. It plays into the whole story that’s coming up and it’s great because it’s an opportunity for Ralph and Barry to really butt heads again. They do not like each other at all. But he’s not a bad guy. He’s a good cop and he’s got a good heart. He needs some help bringing that back.

 

Quote

Had you read the comics featuring Elongated Man or did you go back and catch up?
I knew a little bit about him. I did know that Dibny and The Flash really worked together a lot in the comics. I didn’t know a ton about him, but I knew some of his story that he had a wife in the comics, and that they actually had this really good marriage and she obviously has not come into play at this point, but I knew he was a great detective too, and that really appealed to me too, like this really physical character with his comedy stuff, but he was also a good cop, he was a good detective. So I did do some reading about that and went back to a couple of comics, talked to Andrew [Kreisberg] and Todd [Helbing] and everybody about a little bit of that too.

There are a lot more questions and answers at the source. Natalie mentioned in her radio program last week that there would be a screening of tomorrow's episode today. 

[Trini]

Now I'm really wondering how Dibney ends up in jail with the rest of the bachelor party.

[Trini]

A little more info about "Girls Night Out"

Quote

"We wanted to do something we'd never done before. It's interesting, because I think it's the first episode we've ever done where Barry doesn't wear the suit," Flash Executive Producer Andrew Kreisberg told a room full of press following a screening of this week's new episode of the show, "Elongated Journey Into Night."

"We started with the concept of 'wouldn't it be really funny if Barry goes for a bachelor party with the guys, and Iris goes for a bachelorette party with the girls, and the guys end up having the worst night ever and the girls end up saving the city'?" Kreisberg says about the development of the episode. "That was where the episode started from, and that's where it ended up."

Kreisberg has nothing but praise for Katee Sackhoff's work on The Flash, which will see her appearing in multiple episodes. "What she's done and the performance that she has brought to the character is so beyond anything you expect from her. I think people are really gonna be delighted. She is most definitely not playing Starbuck," Kreisberg teases.

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/10/30/flash-kreisberg-crossover-no-costume/

[ruby24]

There's a long interview with Andrew Kreisberg posted on collider.

Sounds like they're definitely going ahead with the Joe and Cecile baby. I just hope it doesn't delay the Tornado Twins from coming for Barry and Iris, whenever they were going to do that. I'm guessing not, but I also am definitely thinking that diapers line from Barry could refer to the fact that Iris is pregnant at all, not necessarily with twins.

I would have said Season 6 for Iris getting pregnant, if it was my choice, so maybe they'll go ahead and wait until then? But given how Cecile will likely give birth near the end of this season, I'm not sure they'll want to give Iris a full season pregnancy whenever they do decide to have that happen, since they've already done it. Now I would think Iris likely gets pregnant near the end of a season (maybe next year, Season 5) and gives birth near Christmas time in Season 6.

It's also possible Iris might be pregnant at the end of this season, timed for a dramatic birth around the 100th episode...but again, is that too close to the birth of Joe's baby? Unless most or all of Cecile's pregnancy happens offscreen, including the birth, so they save all the big pregnancy story moments for Barry and Iris.

I was also thinking it might be kind of convenient to have a character like Cecile around, who's not in every episode, and will have her baby mostly offscreen, to just be there whenever the time comes for the WA twins to show up, because babies will not be on the show too much whenever it happens, so Cecile can easily take all the kids offscreen with her when they need her to, lol.

[Trini]

On 10/30/2017 at 11:26 AM, quarks said:

Those "logistics" include saving at least $400,000 on guest stars by combining the crossover/weddings, probably more. Notably, none of the Flash stars are popping over to Oliver/Felicity's wedding reception, even though Arrow consistently gets a bump in live numbers whenever they announce that Barry Allen is popping over, and Arrow could use the boost.  The problems caused?

Some complaints from invested fans.

That's hardly the only problem, and it's going to affect the casual audience too. But that's more  discussion for the Mind Your Surroundings thread.

[RedVitC]

Talking about this here instead of the episode thread, since it involves spoilers:

I have no strong feelings, but I don't hate the idea of Caitlin and Ralph (provided they take it slow) mostly because the vibe I'm getting from interviews is that they want to keep Ralph until the end of the show so he wouldn't disappear. However since Andrew Kreisberg said Ralph and Sue are endgame, unless they reveal at some point that Caitlin's middle name is Sue or something like that, it's probably not a good idea. And I'm actually wondering if they're going to bring back Ronnie. It feels like there have suddenly been more Ronnie namedrops in the Flarrowverse universe lately. 

[ruby24]

I hope they don't, because I don't think they'd be a good match at all. But I don't think Caitlin's a good match with anybody, really. I blame it on DP's acting skills. Both Tom Felton and now Hartley Sawyer outshine her in such a huge way, it makes her not a good screen partner for them. Robbie Amell was probably her best match, because he's kind of the same okay, but not spectacular CW actor, and they're on a closer level.

[Trini]

9 hours ago, RedVitC said:

Talking about this here instead of the episode thread, since it involves spoilers:

I have no strong feelings, but I don't hate the idea of Caitlin and Ralph (provided they take it slow) mostly because the vibe I'm getting from interviews is that they want to keep Ralph until the end of the show so he wouldn't disappear. However since Andrew Kreisberg said Ralph and Sue are endgame, unless they reveal at some point that Caitlin's middle name is Sue or something like that, it's probably not a good idea. And I'm actually wondering if they're going to bring back Ronnie. It feels like there have suddenly been more Ronnie namedrops in the Flarrowverse universe lately. 

Dibny is 'meh' for me so far, so I don't to see him paired up with Caitlin romantically. Plus, it'd be the third time in as many seasons she dates the new dude. The story with her and Amunet sounds more interesting, although everything with Killer Frost still seems dumb.

I guess they have mentioned Ronnie a few times, but I don't see how they can have him back for longer than a cameo. Plus, with Dibny joining the Team, I don't think there's room.

[Trini]

Some of the spoiler-y bits from this interview with Kreisberg:

Quote

KREISBERG:  We’re talking about that[Cisco and Gypsy’s relationship] right now, about what the next iteration of that plan is. We’re so happy for Jessica that she’s on Taken this year, which somewhat limits our ability to have her be in more episodes. Right now, we’re working on a Cisco-Breacher story that doesn’t involve Gypsy. We love Gypsy and we love Jessica, so we haven’t wanted to let her commitments to Taken influence our storytelling. We also think it’s nice that one couple just doesn’t have any problems, other than her father trying to kill [her boyfriend]. Jessica is coming back in Episode 9. Their relationship is steady and moving well.

Quote

... We have an episode coming up where Ralph gets hurt, and he didn’t know he could die. Cisco is like, “Wait, I’m sorry, were you only doing this because you thought you were invincible?!” And he’s like, “Yeah! Why else would I be doing this?!” It’s interesting ‘cause it’s different, as opposed to a speedster. Jesse and Wally were both going on very similar trajectories to Barry, but Ralph’s problems and his hero’s journey has different facets to it, which make it feel fresh.

Quote

KREISBERG:  Keiynan is a regular, and you will see him back in Episode 7.

Quote

KREISBERG: I think that is part of the mystery, where he[The Thinker] is. He’s in a really cool set! Where he is, is actually part of the mystery, so we want to preserve that, but you’re going to find out a lot about what is going on in the first nine episodes. You’re not going to have to wait until March to know what the hell is going on.

Quote

... The thing that’s been interesting about him[The Thinker] is that he’s playing chess. I know that’s a cliché, but in this case, it’s really true. As far as he’s concerned, he’s already checkmated Team Flash, so he really doesn’t give a shit what they know and when they figure shit out because he’s going to say, in an upcoming episode, “You’ve already lost.” It really is about us trying to figure out how to get ahead of somebody who’s playing so far ahead of you. That’s really the trajectory of the season, as opposed to just trying to figure out who the hell it is, ...

[Trini]

http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/01/flash-council-wells/

Quote

“We had a sprinkling of it when they were on their quest for H.R. Wells last year where we had Hells Wells, Mime Wells, and Steampunk Wells, and so that was just a one-off, but that got everybody’s juices flowing like, ‘If we were to do that, what would that look like with there being a Council of Wells that could convene?” Cavanagh tells EW. “We thought, ‘Oh, this is going to be completely obnoxious and shameless when I get ahold of it,’ and it is proving to be super obnoxious and ultra-shameless in hopefully the most appealing way.”

Tom is good, but oversaturation is a thing. Well, I know which episode I'll be fast-forwarding through.

[TDT]

13 hours ago, RedVitC said:

Talking about this here instead of the episode thread, since it involves spoilers:

I have no strong feelings, but I don't hate the idea of Caitlin and Ralph (provided they take it slow) mostly because the vibe I'm getting from interviews is that they want to keep Ralph until the end of the show so he wouldn't disappear. However since Andrew Kreisberg said Ralph and Sue are endgame, unless they reveal at some point that Caitlin's middle name is Sue or something like that, it's probably not a good idea. And I'm actually wondering if they're going to bring back Ronnie. It feels like there have suddenly been more Ronnie namedrops in the Flarrowverse universe lately. 

Since Victor Garber is departing from LoT soon it may make sense to have him be the new "other half" of Firestorm..

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, TDT said:

Since Victor Garber is departing from LoT soon it may make sense to have him be the new "other half" of Firestorm..

Ronnie's dead (as far as we can tell).  Even if he came back, he wouldn't want to be the other half of Firestorm.  He'd want to be with his wife, Caitlin.  So, you'd replace one person who wants off the Waverider to be with his family (Stein) with another person who wants off the Waverider to be with his family (Ronnie).

As for Caitlin dating Ralph (or anyone), I don't mind it, but I think it really needs to be more or less permanent.  This bit where she's the girlfriend of the guy of the season needs to stop.  Either don't put her with anyone and let her focus on other stuff (like Killer Frost and Ahmanet) or put her with her version of "The One" and let her/them focus on other stuff as before.

[Trini]

Episode 3.07 description:

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"Therefore I Am" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, V) (HDTV)

BARRY MEETS DEVOE - Barry (Grant Gustin) comes face to face with DeVoe (guest star Neil Sandilands). Devoe's past is revealed through flashbacks. Meanwhile, Iris (Candice Patton) puts the final touches on the wedding, which is a week away.

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Eric Wallace & Thomas Pound

(#407). Original airdate 11/21/2017.

 

Good; more info on Devoe. I wonder if he's a meta from the original particle accelerator explosion?

[Trini]

No more Snart/Captain Cold in the Berlanti-verse?? ?

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Currently shooting some of my final episodes as "Captain Cold/Leonard Snart" on CW's LEGENDS OF TOMORROW and THE FLASH...

Grateful - now and in advance - to a pair of talented casts and hard-working crews... Thank you...

I've had a tremendous opportunity, an education, and a f-cking blast...

With love and respect. - W.M.

[RedVitC]

About the Ralph Dibny name drop in S1:

The Flash: About that Ralph Dibny reference in season 1…

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Let’s rewind: In season 1’s “Power Outage,” Harrison Wells, a.k.a. Eobard Thawne (played by Tom Cavanagh, who directed tonight’s episode), rattled off an Easter-egg-filled list of the people who were hurt in the particle accelerator explosion. Of course, Ralph Dibny was one of the names on the list, which also included Bea da Costa, a.k.a. Fire; Grant Emerson, a.k.a. Damage; Al Rothstein, a.k.a Atom Smasher; and Will Everett, a.k.a Amazing Man.

Given this conspicuous name-drop, it was definitely fair to assume that Dibny has had his stretching powers since the particle accelerator exploded. However, as we learned in “Elongated Journey Into Night,” that’s not the case: Dibny, a skeezy former CCPD officer turned P.I. and nemesis of Barry’s (Grant Gustin), was one of the metahumans created when Barry exited the Speed Force in the season 4 premiere.

What accounts for this continuity error? Executive producers Andrew Kreisberg and Todd Helbing addressed that very question after a recent press screening of Tuesday’s episode.

“I don’t remember,” said Kreisberg, laughing. “You know what? You make a lot of TV, we’re gonna say some things that we probably shouldn’t have.”

But then Helbing chimed in with an explanation: “Hello, Flashpoint!”

“Oh yeah, Flashpoint,” chuckled Kreisberg. “That’s right, Flashpoint erased that. Doesn’t matter. Changed it. Sorry.”

 

If they really go with the second option, Flashpoint saved Ralph's life. I thought maybe the secret Ralph was keeping (alluded to in an interview a while ago) was that he actually got his powers during the particle accelerator explosion. But that doesn't seem likely after the above interview.

On 9/14/2017 at 2:38 AM, Trini said:

From TVGuide according to tvecho:

On 9/13/2017 at 4:14 PM, tv echo said:

I just got my new TV Guide Magazine (Double Issue, Sept. 18-Oct. 1, 2017) in the mail. This is their "Returning Favorites" issue, where they run through the old shows returning this fall on each day of the week.  I've posted the Arrow blurb on page 6 of the New Spoilers thread, but here's what was said about the other Arrowverse shows...

The Flash - AK: "[Caitlin is] continuing to struggle with the cold monster lurking inside of her... But she will definitely come back into the fold in the premiere episode." Regarding Ralph Dibney, a/k/a the Elongated Man (Harley Sawyer), AK: "There's going to be a lot of conflict between [him and Barry] in terms of how to be a good guy... Ralph is hitting on everybody all the time. He's brash and loud and doesn't listen." He's also hiding something about how he acquired his powers of malleability. AK: "That's one of the big mysteries of the season." Regarding the Thinker (Neil Sandlands), he is "an intelligence threat" who actually isn't out to foil the Flash. AK: "He has a need for him, I would say is more accurate."

Edited November 5, 2017 by RedVitC

[RedVitC]

The Flash cast previews disastrous bachelor(ette) parties

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“It’s an episode that’s very girl-centric,” Patton tells EW. “The boys are trying to have fun, and the girls end up being the ones that are saving the day in the episode, so it’s an all-star female team up, and it’s a really girl-centered episode that fans have been waiting for.”

As previously teased, Killer Frost worked for Amunet Black (Katee Sackhoff), who runs an underground black market for supervillains. With Caitlin back in control, and reunited with Team Flash, Amunet is not happy, thus the ladies must team up to protect Caitlin and the city. “Caitlin, as we all know, has been struggling with Killer Frost and trying to keep that subdued and feeling like she can’t be a part of Team Flash because she’s got these powers she’s trying to keep under control,” Patton says. “Throughout the episode, you see Iris really be there for her and help her deal with her struggles of trying to keep Killer Frost down, basically telling her, ‘You don’t have to choose one or the other, you can be both. You’re still a good person.’ It’s really interesting to watch Caitlin and Killer Frost come to terms with the duality of their person, and Iris is pretty important to that happening.”

The episode also marks a mini-crossover as Arrow‘s Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) comes to town to celebrate Iris but finds the emergence of Killer Frost to be far more exciting. “She’s stoked to see Killer Frost because she’s never seen her before,” Rickards says. “Obviously she didn’t know Killer Frost was as dire as she is. Felicity’s a huge nerd and loves that stuff.” Panabaker adds: “Felicity brings a lot of levity to any scene she’s in, and it’s nice to have her enthusiasm on the show.”

 

 

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Over with the boys, Cisco (Carlos Valdes) sets out to make this a night they’ll never forget, but instead it’s one they’ll more likely have trouble remembering. “We let loose,” Gustin says. “Cisco makes Barry a little potion to get him drunk that works much better than the last time in season 1. It lasts for the duration of the entire night and Barry is in rare form. He is drunker than I have ever even come close to being, and we had a lot of fun with that. It was the first episode in the history of The Flash that I didn’t put the suit on, not one time.”

Alas, Cisco’s plans for the night go awry thanks to Ralph Dibny (Hartley Sawyer). “His plans get hijacked by Mr. Dibny,” Valdes teases. “It’s a terrible plan that starts terrible and ends terribly, honestly.” Initially, Gustin says, the boys were planning for a quiet night with a steak dinner, but Dibny instead takes them “to a strip club where Barry lets loose,” Gustin says.

Suffice it to say, it’s definitely not the night Joe (Jesse L. Martin) was expecting for his son. “It’s probably one of the first times Joe has ever seen Barry drunk,” Martin says. “As a kid, before he turned into Flash, he didn’t drink, he was a straight-up nerd, so Joe’s a little concerned, but more just fascinated with the fact that that’s what he’s like when he’s drunk. Barry’s a very funny drunk, let’s just say that. But the idea of going to a strip club, it’s bad all around. Joe doesn’t like it, he doesn’t like what he sees there, doesn’t like what happens when we get there. It’s a mess and it’s all because of that damn Dibny.”

 

[Trini]

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“Caitlin, as we all know, has been struggling with Killer Frost and trying to keep that subdued and feeling like she can’t be a part of Team Flash because she’s got these powers she’s trying to keep under control,” Patton says. “Throughout the episode, you see Iris really be there for her and help her deal with her struggles of trying to keep Killer Frost down, basically telling her, ‘You don’t have to choose one or the other, you can be both. You’re still a good person.’ It’s really interesting to watch Caitlin and Killer Frost come to terms with the duality of their person, and Iris is pretty important to that happening.”

Ugh..... I have zero expectations about the Killer Frost arc, I'm not expecting any satisfying resolution at all; I'm just going to try and enjoy the rest of the episode.

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Alas, Cisco’s plans for the night go awry thanks to Ralph Dibny (Hartley Sawyer). “His plans get hijacked by Mr. Dibny,” Valdes teases. “It’s a terrible plan that starts terrible and ends terribly, honestly.” Initially, Gustin says, the boys were planning for a quiet night with a steak dinner, but Dibny instead takes them “to a strip club where Barry lets loose,” Gustin says.

But if they were just going to have "quiet night" why the drunk potion?

Edited November 10, 2017 by Trini