S01.E10: The Man in the Killer Suit

[HalcyonDays]

Episode synopsis: The identity of an engaged British aristocrat who turns up dead in Central Park is called into question. The murder investigation leads Henry and Jo through one of New York’s top luxury department stores. Henry recalls the time in 1957 when he and his family had to move to protect his secret.

 

[HalcyonDays]

Okay, because I am Canadian, I've seen this show one day before you guys have, and as always, a good episode for me!! I really like this show, however goofy and in some cases unbelivable it is. Love Henry and Jo together - yes, I ship them dammit. I really do love Lucas - he seems like such a sweet yet ackward guy, and I love him for it - that is me.

 

The case of the week was decent and nice twists, but not too complex. I love the flashbacks to Henry's former life too. This show needs to thrive and survive and of course because I love it....IT WON'T. But a good one!!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love that Lucas so clearly wants to be friends with Henry. He is like a sweet little puppy dog who just wants you to pet him.

 

I agree that this week's case was a good example of twisty but not too complex. It's no fun if I can tell who the killer is in the first ten minutes.

 

This show is a nice light thing to watch so I hope that we get to keep it!

[shapeshifter]

In the flashback when the wounded veteran accused Henry of being a ghost: Wouldn't Henry just say, "Sorry mate, I believe you have me confused with my Uncle Henry."

[turnitwayup]

Well the COTW seemed like a rehash of the Fool Me Once... ep of Castle. Between Henry hating cellphones and allowing to Abe to break the speeding law, the subplot was very entertaining. I like seeing the flashbacks of his childhood. Loled at Lucas wanting to be the killer instead of the victim. Same with Lt. Reece's reaction asking Henry why he was at the cemetery. 

[Jaded Sapphire]

Loved this ep (and last week's even too), any ep with serious father-son interaction is wonderful. I love that Abe told him they didn't have a microwave but Henry was still scared enough to rush home anyway lol. Speaking of which, I was thinking we were a little overdue for an appearance by Adam.

 

I laughed long and hard enough at Henry wanting to 'murder' Lucas that I actually missed a few lines, off to watch again! 

[Netfoot]

Between Henry hating cellphones...

 

Actually, I find this a little annoying. 

 

Henry is a man who is of unremarkable age, as far as appearances go. In order to give him the patina of age, the writers have  crafted him as old fashioned.  Can't stand cellphones.  Thinks Jazz is newfangled.  Etc, etc.  On the other hand, Henry is portrayed as having an encyclopaedic knowledge of... everything.  Knowledge gained by decades; centuries of exposure to... everything.  These two character traits are at odds.

 

If you are a 200+ years old physician, but you refuse to keep abreast of the times, you'll still be administering laudanum by gaslight, and performing operations without bothering to wash your hands.  Not wowing everyone with how brilliant and all-knowing you are. 

[sinkwriter]

I didn't laugh the first time Henry beat Detective Hanson to an answer because that seems to happen a lot, but when he showed up later in the episode and again Henry had just come to the same conclusion, I laughed because the look on Hanson's face was all, "Seriously? I can't ever come up with an answer before this guy. Come ON..." LOL. 

 

I'm starting to feel really bad for Lucas. And it seems weird that everyone seems to treat Lucas as if he's a pain in the ass or nonexistent. Can't anyone like him outwardly or treat him kindly in some way? I like Henry, but the way he treats Lucas is just not cool.  

 

Loved Jo telling Henry that he'd open up to her eventually, and the look on his face when he absorbed what she said. Also loved how he told her she must have been adorable (or charming?) playing Eliza Doolittle as a kid. The reaction look on her face was sweet.

 

And what a way to ramp up an ending! Can't wait to see next week's episode! Very exciting!

Edited December 3, 2014 by sinkwriter

[sonyab]

Abe wants Henry to be his wingman at a funeral?! HAHAHAHAHA! Oh oh! The woman he is interested in, is the widow!!! ROFL! No Abe listen to Henry! I love how he says to Abe what a tomato  Hahaha. Even as a kid he said it.  In the flashback, I thought Henry was taking out his gray hair, but he was actually adding it! I think gray hair is sexy on a man.  Abe asking if he could break the speeding law, and Henry says yes and Jo says NO! ROFL! WOAH! The end in the cab! HOLY CRAP! What a great twist!  At the end it should have said to be continued. Oh what a great show! TV by the numbers said that Forever is certain to be cancelled by May, 2015, which isn't shocking or surprising. They should put it in a different hour or different day.  The tv show Cheers had low ratings back then, and was going to be cancelled, but they didn't give up! And it went up in the ratings and lasted 11 seasons. I love Cheers!

Edited December 3, 2014 by sonyab

[Gregg247]

I really enjoyed the case-of-the-week, which had me guessing all the way up to the end.  At once point, I thought the case was solved, but then I looked  at the clock and saw we had 20 minutes left!  Oops, time for a twist! LOL

 

I did NOT enjoy the B story this time, though (Abe's long-lost love).  This was really silly and hard (impossible) to believe.

1. Abe remembers the full name of the first girl he ever kissed.

2. Abe recognized her immediately, despite the fact that he hasn't seen her since she was 12!

3. Abe kept track of her through the years, but Henry had never heard of her.

4. Abe's childhood crush also remembered him after all those years.

5. Abe got a rain-check on a date with her 2 days after she buried her husband of 50 years.

 

None of these things alone are impossible, but the entire string of events just didn't work for me.  Abe's a real lady's man.  Okay, we get it!

[theatremouse]

Loved Jo telling Henry that he'd open up to her eventually, and the look on his face when he absorbed what she said.

I did not love this moment, or even just the fact that they had her say it. She kept asking him how he could afford to dress the way he does. Yes, he said he'd saved some, but hey detective, if you couple that vague response with implausible spending capacity, and assuming she suspect nothing nefarious about him, and couple it with his extreme privateness, wouldn't an easier conclusion be "dude comes from money and doesn't like to discuss it". I mean, I guess I sort of appreciate that since she's trying to develop a real friendship with him she's sort of refusing to make assumptions or guess, but her sort of outright "I have no idea what your deal is but I'll get you to tell me" bit really super rubbed me the wrong way. 

Edited December 3, 2014 by theatremouse

[tearbender]

The brunette suspect  was such a dead ringer for Allison Brie of Community and Mad Men (in 10+ years) it was distracting.

[sinkwriter]

 

her sort of outright "I have no idea what your deal is but I'll get you to tell me" bit really super rubbed me the wrong way

 

I didn't take it as Jo saying she'd get him to tell her eventually (like an interrogation or something). I took it as her saying you'll tell me when you're ready because you feel you can trust me and we're becoming good friends. I found it endearing, not forceful.

Edited December 3, 2014 by sinkwriter

[Cirien]

It took me repeated viewing to realise that the victims partner in crime was Laura Fraser. I missed her adorable Scottish accent. (to be fair the last time I remember seeing was in Lip Service and before that in Casanova, with David Tennant)

[dubbel zout]

Between Henry hating cellphones...

Actually, I find this a little annoying.

Henry is a man who is of unremarkable age, as far as appearances go. In order to give him the patina of age, the writers have  crafted him as old fashioned.  Can't stand cellphones.  Thinks Jazz is newfangled.  Etc, etc.  On the other hand, Henry is portrayed as having an encyclopaedic knowledge of... everything.  Knowledge gained by decades; centuries of exposure to... everything.  These two character traits are at odds.

 

Same here. This is one of the main things that doesn't work for me. Henry didn't wake up after 200 years. He's been living them. I can see him disliking cell phones and microwaves and all that, but for a man in his position—HE'S A FRICKIN' MEDICAL EXAMINER—not to have a cell phone is completely absurd. And why doesn't he regularly drive? Traffic/cabs/blah blah, but again, He's an ME.. He should be driving. 

 

Also loved how he told her she must have been adorable (or charming?) playing Eliza Doolittle as a kid. The reaction look on her face was sweet.

 

I don't know why she explained the Henry Higgins reference in the first place. My Fair Lady/Pygmalion isn't exactly unknown or dated. It's not as if Jo had referenced a Muse. (Not everyone is a mythology geek.)

 

Another gripe: I'm pretty sure a viscount is a lord, as one can be known as Lord SuchandSuch. Aristocracy/nobility is not royalty, so the show got that right.

Edited December 3, 2014 by dubbel zout

[Cirien]

 

Another gripe: I'm pretty sure a viscount is a lord, as one can be known as Lord SuchandSuch. Aristocracy/nobility is not royalty, so the show got that right.

Yep pretty much.

[sinkwriter]

 

And why doesn't he regularly drive? Traffic/cabs/blah blah, but again, He's an ME.. He should be driving.

 

I don't know... I'm with Henry on this one. I wouldn't want to drive in NYC ever. Traffic's insane! And the buses don't slow down, they seem to aim for you! (LOL.) I like that he rides a bike. (Though in wintertime that's ridiculous. Too fucking cold and too slippery.)

 

I don't know why she explained the Henry Higgins reference in the first place. My Fair Lady/Pygmalion isn't exactly unknown or dated.

 

It's not an unusual reference, but I think Henry thought it was particularly unusual for Jo to bring it up. To him, she probably doesn't seem like the type to go to "cultured events" like plays. She's the type to eat gyros in a stakeout vehicle. (Heh.) So he looked surprised when she mentioned it, and then was charmed by the thought of a young Jo playing Eliza. I liked it.

 

Plus, there's the added symmetry of Henry enjoying learning this little bit about Jo and in the end Jo tells Henry that eventually she thinks he'll feel comfortable telling her things about himself, which Henry smiled at like he might like to tell her some things someday, too.

 

Of course, there's absolutely no reason why Jo couldn't enjoy eating gyros in a car and going to plays. One can be laid-back and comfy in sweats on the weekends and still enjoy going to the theatahhh.

Edited December 3, 2014 by sinkwriter

[Netfoot]

I'm pretty sure a viscount is a lord, as one can be known as Lord SuchandSuch. Aristocracy/nobility is not royalty, so the show got that right.

 

I believe the difference is whether the name is written or spoken and whether it addresses him directly.

 

Written, such as in a magazine article about him, you'ld use The Viscount X whereas in conversation it would be Lord X but if you wrote directly to him it would be Dear Lord X on the letter since you address him directly, but it would be back to The Viscount X on the envelope, since the address on the envelope is directed at the Postmaster General and his staff.

[jbrecken]

I don't know why she explained the Henry Higgins reference in the first place. My Fair Lady/Pygmalion isn't exactly unknown or dated. It's not as if Jo had referenced a Muse. (Not everyone is a mythology geek.)

Jo didn't want Henry thinking she was a fan of Selfie.

[theatremouse]

I didn't take it as Jo saying she'd get him to tell her eventually (like an interrogation or something). I took it as her saying you'll tell me when you're ready because you feel you can trust me and we're becoming good friends. I found it endearing, not forceful.

Yeah, I didn't mean I found her forceful or that she was implying she'd eventually interrogate him. I interpreted the scene as playful, basically, the same as you did. I just still find the principle of the statement irksome and a little presumptuous, even if the friendship is probably going in that direction. If she'd said it to me it would've made me want to close off more, not endear me to her. Not to say Henry felt the same way.

And why doesn't he regularly drive? Traffic/cabs/blah blah, but again, He's an ME.. He should be driving.

Lots of New Yorkers don't drive because they can generally get away with it. If the show took place elsewhere, it'd be an extra-quirky quirk, but especially in New York, for me the not driving doesn't even need a handwave. I mean, plus there are people who don't drive, or just can't afford cars, even in cities that don't have good public transport and plentiful cabs.

[dubbel zout]

My guess is that it might have been hard to get a driver's license if asked to provide a birth certificate. I'm guessing he also doesn't vote.

I didn't think about this. Okay, I will grudgingly give Henry his lack of driving. (I don't mind so much him not driving in his private life, but on the job? Side eye.)

 

I think Henry thought it was particularly unusual for Jo to bring it up. To him, she probably doesn't seem like the type to go to "cultured events" like plays.

 

Jo may not have seen or read the play, but the musical based on the play is extremely well known. I think it's kind of insulting to Jo for Henry to be surprised she's aware of it. 

[Netfoot]

My guess is that it might have been hard to get a driver's license if asked to provide a birth certificate. I'm guessing he also doesn't vote.

 

I can't accept that he's a long-term employee of the city, a resident thereof, and a man with any sort of on-grid connection such as a bank account, a contract for electricity, land-line telephone services, a credit card, etc, without having all the correct papers to support the fact that he is who he claims to be.  Surely, one of his many skills, garnered from 200+ years of experience, is tracking down a good forger?  One of his on-going activities should be building and fleshing out the identity of the next iteration of himself.  In fact, I'd quite enjoy seeing some of that on the show.  Filing the birth records of the person he intends to be in 20 years, etc.

[sonyab]

I really enjoyed the case-of-the-week, which had me guessing all the way up to the end.  At once point, I thought the case was solved, but then I looked  at the clock and saw we had 20 minutes left!  Oops, time for a twist! LOL

 

I did the exact same thing!!!! :) I thought the case was solved too. We must have looked at the clock at the same time hahaha!  Yes time for a twist! :)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Whenever I see characters who have been around a long time (like vampires), I always think about how much easier things were for them to fake earlier in life. Way back when, you could just say your name was John Smith and that was that. All the recent technology and laws must be a huge pain in the ass. You didn't need a social security number until a few decades ago. My guess is that Henry didn't have any major issues maintaining his identity until the recent past. I don't know what kind of schooling and certification his current job as a coroner requires, but I wonder how he handled that and where he got his current SSN since he is still using his real name.

As for not driving, it's not as big a deal if you live in a big city with lots of public transportation. I know several people who grew up in cities like that and never got a license or a car because they didn't need either. It's obscenely expensive to get a parking spot in your building, and that's after you've been on a waiting list for ages. And if most of the travel you do is within the city, there's no need for a car because you can take the subway or a taxi. If you do take your car, it's really hard to find street parking. Having a car in the city can be a huge expense for something that you never even use.

[sinkwriter]

I would think it's difficult for Henry to even hire a forger, because it opens too many doors to people outside his inner circle knowing something's suspect about him. I think he'd be afraid of someone finding out he's a fraud or that he's hiding something. Like an adult you find out never learned to read and managed to live life and hide that inability for a very long time, I imagine over the years Henry's gotten very good at hiding who he is and creating paperwork to cover his story.

 

As for not driving, it's not as big a deal if you live in a big city with lots of public transportation.

 

*nodding* Definitely. I had a friend who moved to Chicago and after a while she just didn't see the point of having the expense of a car, not when you have the El for most of your travel needs (or in Henry's case, cabs and the subway). She eventually sold her car and now if she ever needs to pick up something big, she'll rent a vehicle or borrow a friend's. Then again, I lived in Chicago for a year and I refused to give up my car - I just appreciate the independence and freedom of it too much.

Edited December 4, 2014 by sinkwriter

[crocosmia]

This show doesn't pretend to be realistic, so Henry's various implausibilities and the inconsistencies of plot don't bother me.     They do make good conversation, though, and I enjoy reading the comments here.

 

Loved this episode.   The humor and characters are charming, and the plot has enough twists to make it fun.   

 

I also love the gorgeous footage of New York City.   

[possibilities]

The loneliness of Henry's position is really crushing, when you think about it. What happens when Abe dies? Who will pick him up when he turns up naked in the river? Who will he be able to be honest with at all? I'd think he'd be more curious about this Adam person-- though I understand the guy presents himself is a menacing tone, so anyone would be wary. But just anyone who might understand, and allow you to be uncensored about your reality, would be a compelling meet, I'd think.

 

I hate microwaves, too. And I have my issues with cell phones, but I do think it would be quite helpful for him to have one, especially if he's going to be dying willy nilly and needing a ride home. Or would the phone disappear along with his clothing?

 

I find his aversion to jazz amusing, because it was in fac trebelliou sand radical when invented, and I don't think having archaic tastes implies he wouldn't keep u pwith modern medical practices. Lots of people pick and choose where to grow into new things and where to hold fast to the familiar.

 

I remember the full name of early crushes and kisses, so I didn't find it implausible that Abe might, also. Not so sure I'd easily recognize the face of someone I knew as a child, 50+ years later, but it helps that he knew she would be there, so it was one of several people present, not a chance encounter. Also, his loneliness is enhanced by his shared situation with Henry. I think the inability to be free and pursue long term intimate relationships the way most people would do, would make him cling more tightly to the memories of passing intimacies. It's like nothing trumps them, so he lingers on the fragments.

 

I like Jo. I don't think she'd believe anything she didn't see with her own two eyes, however, so for her to learn the truth they'd have to what? Do a little killing demo? I can see how that would be a very rough experiment, on all parties. The lab assistant seems like the sort of person who would think it was very cool, but he might not be able to keep a secret, so that's too bad. He seems like he'd be a good friend and confidante, otherwise.

[Jaded Sapphire]

This show doesn't pretend to be realistic, so Henry's various implausibilities and the inconsistencies of plot don't bother me.     They do make good conversation, though, and I enjoy reading the comments here.

 

Loved this episode.   The humor and characters are charming, and the plot has enough twists to make it fun.   

 

I also love the gorgeous footage of New York City.   

 

I've been holding this in since it's (apparently) not common knowledge but because how 'realistic' the show is keeps coming up, I feel the need to say it; I knew not to take the show too seriously the second the Conductor derailed that train in the pilot. I work for the MTA, and besides all the requisite safety features (i.e. the common knowledge stuff), they ignored one small but important detail - Conductors do not drive trains! Mechanically speaking, their only job is to open and close the doors. My title is Train Operator and (surprise, surprise) driving/operating is my job. I expect to give shows leeway on, say, dead man switches, but the only way poisoning a Conductor would work is if the Train Operator stopped at a station and became so despondent when the doors didn't open that they went, "Fuck it all!"

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I still remember the name of my first crush! I was four years old and he was in my kindergarten class and I haven't seen him since then. I think Abe was able to recognize her because he knew she would be there and she had flaming red hair, which was a pretty good tip off.

 

I am okay with Henry not liking jazz because I've noticed that thre's a certain point in most adults' lives where they stop liking a lot of new music. People tend to love the music of their adolescence through college years (probably because those years are so memorable and those songs remind them of good times), so I don't have an issue with Henry disliking jazz. Hell, I know plenty of people who are much younger than Henry who also can't stand jazz.

 

sinkwriter, my sister kept her car when she lived in San Francisco even though it was the hugest pain in the ass. She just couldn't give it up. It's probably a good thing she kept it because she ended up moving again a few months later so she would have been carless if she hadn't insisted on keeping her car. After I posted the above, I was thinking about how Abe has a car and wondering who taught him to drive. I would guess that Henry knows how to drive but doesn't have a proper birth certificate so that he can get a license. I don't know what's required in the state of New York, but in California you need a birth certificate and they scan your thumbprint. If Henry hasn't obtained a fake birth certificate then that could be the main reason he doesn't have a license.

 

ITA that Abe dying will be a huge loss for Henry and I dread it. How long was Henry dying and coming back to life before he met his wife and Abe? Having them around must have been very comforting for him. Not only did they provide stability in his life but they knew the truth about him so he has been able to be honest with them. Once Abe is gone, it may be very difficult for him to go back to being totally isolated and keeping so many of his life experiences to himself.

[Netfoot]

The loneliness of Henry's position is really crushing, when you think about it. What happens when Abe dies? Who will pick him up when he turns up naked in the river? Who will he be able to be honest with at all?

 

Which is why, heartless as it may seem, he should be thinking of his future.  Because if he never dies, he's got a lot of future to think about.  Abe is now what?  80?  So where is his 50 year old son?  And his 20 year old son?  Each living in another part of the country (or world), as part of a new life, complete with new documents, for a new identity, which he will assume more fully, when the time is right?

 

I am okay with Henry not liking jazz because I've noticed that thre's a certain point in most adults' lives where they stop liking a lot of new music. People tend to love the music of their adolescence through college years (probably because those years are so memorable and those songs remind them of good times), so I don't have an issue with Henry disliking jazz. Hell, I know plenty of people who are much younger than Henry who also can't stand jazz.

 

I used jazz and cellphones as examples of his old fashioned ways.  As it happens, I don't much like jazz myself.  (Don't hate it, but...) So, obviously, it's OK for Henry to not like it too.  But the more modern culture he refuses to adopt, to immerse himself in today, the more difficult it will be to appear normal -- not multi-centennial -- in another 100 years, when he's 300+ years old.

 

This show doesn't pretend to be realistic, so Henry's various implausibilities and the inconsistencies of plot don't bother me.     They do make good conversation, though, and I enjoy reading the comments here.  

 

Barring any glaring inconsistencies, I don't need the show to be 100% realistic, but the basic premise does induce speculation as to the short- and long-term mechanics of how it's supposed to work. 

 

Short-term:  If he dies, he is resurrected, naked, in water.  Like what?  A rain barrel?  A bath tub?  A swimming pool?  Is it the nearest body of water that is sufficiently large?  Does it have to be a natural body of water?  Most curious -- what happens to his clothes and the stuff in his pockets? Do the cops come to his door the next day to say "We found a complete set of your clothes, including a Homberg hat, with keys and wallet in the pockets and a bullet hole in the back!  Would you care to explain?"

 

Long-term:  How does he prepare for the eventual loss of his family, and the need to change to a newer, younger identity?  We saw some of that in this recent episode.  By using makeup, graying his hair, etc, he can affect gradual ageing which can be reversed in a hurry by elimination of the makeup, adopting a more youthful and vigorous appearance, and becoming a new, younger person.  But surely, he will need to prepare an identity to step into, in advance.  The new Henry will need certain basic ID, access to funds, some sort of fleshed out back-story to support the persona he will adopt.  I know it isn't part of this show, but I'd be interested to see some small titbits of his looking to his future, just as we see flashbacks from his past.  They could even show some of his preparations for his future as a part of flashbacks to his past. 

 

I like Jo. I don't think she'd believe anything she didn't see with her own two eyes, however, so for her to learn the truth they'd have to what? Do a little killing demo? I can see how that would be a very rough experiment, on all parties. The lab assistant seems like the sort of person who would think it was very cool, but he might not be able to keep a secret, so that's too bad. He seems like he'd be a good friend and confidante, otherwise.

 

I can see it happening accidentally.  They investigate crime together, so it isn't unreasonable to picture a situation where he gets killed (possibly saving her life).  Then, when he re-appears the next morning, she will have the evidence of her own eyes, and he will have lots of explaining to do.  It may happen in a way that he can deny (fall off a tall building, and later claim he landed on a mattress delivery truck?) but leave her totally suspicious and ready to investigate his past.  Or he might take a 12 gauge to the gut right in front of her and be unable to deny.

[attica]

The brunette suspect  was such a dead ringer for Allison Brie of Community and Mad Men (in 10+ years) it was distracting.

 

I am so used to Laura Fraser as Breaking Bad's Lydia Rodarte Quayle, I just knew she'd be the killer. Oh, show, you got me!

 

I got a kick out of Judd Hirsch's reading of his crush's name: Fawn Mahoney! He kept saying it like an interjection. Jesus H. Christ! Fawn Mahoney!

[HalcyonDays]

Actually, I find this a little annoying. 

 

Henry is a man who is of unremarkable age, as far as appearances go. In order to give him the patina of age, the writers have  crafted him as old fashioned.  Can't stand cellphones.  Thinks Jazz is newfangled.  Etc, etc.  On the other hand, Henry is portrayed as having an encyclopaedic knowledge of... everything.  Knowledge gained by decades; centuries of exposure to... everything.  These two character traits are at odds.

 

If you are a 200+ years old physician, but you refuse to keep abreast of the times, you'll still be administering laudanum by gaslight, and performing operations without bothering to wash your hands.  Not wowing everyone with how brilliant and all-knowing you are. 

 

I don't find this strange at all, to be honest. I don't have a cellphone either, and it's due to stubborness, not not wanting one. Same with things like twitter or having facebook, or the latest new fangled gadget. I'm not that old, just stubborn. I see the same think with Henry. He's set in his ways - probably gives him at least a small sense of control.

 

Also, some people are those naturalist types who refused to use microwaves, or cellphone or whatever because they think it causes cancer or whatever.

 

Lots of New Yorkers don't drive because they can generally get away with it. If the show took place elsewhere, it'd be an extra-quirky quirk, but especially in New York, for me the not driving doesn't even need a handwave. I mean, plus there are people who don't drive, or just can't afford cars, even in cities that don't have good public transport and plentiful cabs.

 

Henry said he didn't drive....NOW. But who is to say he didn't drive before? In a large place like NY, you wouldn't need it anyway. Less dense, yes. Things were a lot easier way back when, when you didn't need drivers licenses and credit cards were not chipped and you could more easily forge your identity. There wasn't the electronic tracking that we have now, but there are still people who can hide from the system. Think offshore Swiss bank accounts. Henry probably has lots of money and if he invested wisely here and there, he's be set for life. I mean, if he was smart enough to say buy stock in Microsoft early on, or a car company, that would be all he needed.

 

I will be very sad if this show is cancelled. It is marked for it, but I really like it. It's fun. Maybe there is hope.

[sinkwriter]

 

I don't find this strange at all, to be honest. I don't have a cellphone either, and it's due to stubborness, not not wanting one. Same with things like twitter or having facebook, or the latest new fangled gadget. I'm not that old, just stubborn. I see the same think with Henry. He's set in his ways - probably gives him at least a small sense of control.

 

That's a good way to put it, I think. That Henry is set in his ways, stubborn, and it gives him some control in his life when he has something very big that he cannot control or figure out yet.

 

(P.S. I was like you, no cell phone for years, out of stubbornness and because I didn't want to spend extra money on that. But I changed my mind when I was driving late at night one late October evening and hit a deer that ran across my car's path. With no cell phone to call for help, and no police or anyone else stopping to help me - with giant semi trucks shaking the ground as they drove past me, making me worry that I would get killed by a truck because they couldn't see me in the dark - I had to walk about a mile along a very dark highway road until I reached a place that had a payphone. It was a little scary. So now I have a cheap cell phone for emergencies.)

Edited December 4, 2014 by sinkwriter

[Netfoot]

I don't find this strange at all, to be honest. I don't have a cellphone either, and it's due to stubborness, not not wanting one. Same with things like twitter or having facebook, or the latest new fangled gadget.

 

Granted, but you aren't trying to blend in and not look 200 years old.  In years to come, Henry will look more than stubborn, if he eschews all gadgets invented after the Victorian era.

[BrokenRemote]

In the flashback when the wounded veteran accused Henry of being a ghost: Wouldn't Henry just say, "Sorry mate, I believe you have me confused with my Uncle Henry."

 

I thought the same thing!  Add in a 'we share the same name!' to explain why he looked, and it's easy.  Surely he's gotten better over the years at hiding his reaction to such things.

 

Actually, I find this a little annoying. 

 

Henry is a man who is of unremarkable age, as far as appearances go. In order to give him the patina of age, the writers have  crafted him as old fashioned.  Can't stand cellphones.  Thinks Jazz is newfangled.  Etc, etc.  On the other hand, Henry is portrayed as having an encyclopaedic knowledge of... everything.  Knowledge gained by decades; centuries of exposure to... everything.  These two character traits are at odds.

 

If you are a 200+ years old physician, but you refuse to keep abreast of the times, you'll still be administering laudanum by gaslight, and performing operations without bothering to wash your hands.  Not wowing everyone with how brilliant and all-knowing you are. 

 

My main thing is that he keeps borrowing other peoples' phones.  A few episodes back it was a running joke how many times he borrowed a phone.  If you're doing that constantly, you're going to start annoying people and drawing attention to yourself, and surely if you're borrowing one all the time, old-fashioned or not you're going to start thinking one could come in handy.

 

Abe wants Henry to be his wingman at a funeral?! HAHAHAHAHA! Oh oh! The woman he is interested in, is the widow!!! ROFL! No Abe listen to Henry! I love how he says to Abe what a tomato  Hahaha. Even as a kid he said it.  In the flashback, I thought Henry was taking out his gray hair, but he was actually adding it! I think gray hair is sexy on a man.  Abe asking if he could break the speeding law, and Henry says yes and Jo says NO! ROFL! WOAH! The end in the cab! HOLY CRAP! What a great twist!  At the end it should have said to be continued. Oh what a great show! TV by the numbers said that Forever is certain to be cancelled by May, 2015, which isn't shocking or surprising. They should put it in a different hour or different day.  The tv show Cheers had low ratings back then, and was going to be cancelled, but they didn't give up! And it went up in the ratings and lasted 11 seasons. I love Cheers!

 

I feel like networks don't give shows anywhere near enough time to catch on these days compared to how things were a decade or two ago.  A show used to be on at least a whole season to find its audience, sometimes even more.  Of course, in the 'old days', networks didn't have as much competition.  For some, there were only like 5 choices of what to watch, which meant they could afford to leave something on as long for longer without fear of losing viewers forever.

 

The loneliness of Henry's position is really crushing, when you think about it. What happens when Abe dies? Who will pick him up when he turns up naked in the river? Who will he be able to be honest with at all? I'd think he'd be more curious about this Adam person-- though I understand the guy presents himself is a menacing tone, so anyone would be wary. But just anyone who might understand, and allow you to be uncensored about your reality, would be a compelling meet, I'd think.

 

I hate microwaves, too. And I have my issues with cell phones, but I do think it would be quite helpful for him to have one, especially if he's going to be dying willy nilly and needing a ride home. Or would the phone disappear along with his clothing?

 

I find his aversion to jazz amusing, because it was in fac trebelliou sand radical when invented, and I don't think having archaic tastes implies he wouldn't keep u pwith modern medical practices. Lots of people pick and choose where to grow into new things and where to hold fast to the familiar.

 

I remember the full name of early crushes and kisses, so I didn't find it implausible that Abe might, also. Not so sure I'd easily recognize the face of someone I knew as a child, 50+ years later, but it helps that he knew she would be there, so it was one of several people present, not a chance encounter. Also, his loneliness is enhanced by his shared situation with Henry. I think the inability to be free and pursue long term intimate relationships the way most people would do, would make him cling more tightly to the memories of passing intimacies. It's like nothing trumps them, so he lingers on the fragments.

 

I like Jo. I don't think she'd believe anything she didn't see with her own two eyes, however, so for her to learn the truth they'd have to what? Do a little killing demo? I can see how that would be a very rough experiment, on all parties. The lab assistant seems like the sort of person who would think it was very cool, but he might not be able to keep a secret, so that's too bad. He seems like he'd be a good friend and confidante, otherwise.

I hadn't put my finger on it, but there is this sort of always-present sadness in the character.  I thought maybe it was because so many people he loved had died or were aging (in the case of Abe), but beyond that even now his life is pretty lonely.  It's really sad.

 

As far as building up new identities, I think he'd have to be ready with one even now, because any day someone could see him die and then disappear and either figure out or at least wonder about his secret.  He has to be ready to leave his life at a moment's notice and have another life ready to go to.  He must have that set up, right?   Numbered Bank Account in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands, properties in the name of a dummy corporation he could go to, papers, etc.--I can't imagine he doesn't have those things ready just in case.

 

Edited to add, I'm really enjoying this show.  The leads are appealing and the plots are pretty good.  Really hoping it makes it to season 2.

Edited December 4, 2014 by BrokenRemote

[sinkwriter]

He always seems to use the same name, though, doesn't he? In the flashbacks, people refer to him as Henry or Dr. Morgan, I think. So he doesn't seem to use different identities, except maybe just for proof of age.

[shapeshifter]

...TV by the numbers said that Forever is certain to be cancelled by May, 2015, which isn't shocking or surprising....

I am surprised. What is it competing against? If sports, isn't that temporary?

[sinkwriter]

Well, maybe they should try it on another night first? They've moved Bones around so many times, it's been on almost every single night of the week! Forever is interesting and unique enough that I would like to see it go a little longer than predicted. There are many things I'd like answers to, and that I'd like to see happen.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

ITA that Henry already knows how to drive. I would guess he drove through the mid 20th century until the DMV started requiring birth certificates to get a license and that's why he doesn't have one now, which is why he leaves the driving to Abe. As far as we have seen, he has been using the same name since before he started dying and coming back to life, which is much simpler but would make it harder to steal a SSN since he would have to wait for someone else named Henry Morgan to die. But I also agree that going by the same name SHOULD make it easier in situations where someone recognizes him because as so logically pointed out above, all he would have to do is say, "You must have mistaken me for my uncle, who I'm named after. BYE!"

[henripootel]

Granted, but you aren't trying to blend in and not look 200 years old.

Why even try?  If he's discreet, no reason he can't just go about his life.  I mean nobody's looking for him (or wasn't till Adam), and it seems highly unlikely that anyone would go with 'immortal' if they met him unchanged after years rather than 'you look just like this guy I knew ...'.  Which is why the vet who saw him get blown up and was just sure this was the same guy, that rang super false to me.  I know why they included it in the episode but that doesn't mean it makes any sense.

 

Of course, it's genius itself next to saying that speaking american english warps one's palate enough to be identifiable in a corpse.  I mean I don't demand that my silly shows make any sense at all but even I balk at the utterly preposterous.  Says the guy watching the show about an immortal Quincy/Sherlock. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by henripootel

[possibilities]

I remember Abe saying: "You haven't driven in 37 years!"

 

So, unless I misremembered, Henry has driven, just not recently.

Edited December 4, 2014 by possibilities

[sonyab]

 

I feel like networks don't give shows anywhere near enough time to catch on these days compared to how things were a decade or two ago.  A show used to be on at least a whole season to find its audience, sometimes even more.  Of course, in the 'old days', networks didn't have as much competition.  For some, there were only like 5 choices of what to watch, which meant they could afford to leave something on as long for longer without fear of losing viewers forever.

 

 

Yeah those were the good ol days. I miss how it used to be. :( *sigh*

I am surprised. What is it competing against? If sports, isn't that temporary?

 

Yeah sports is temporary. The ratings aren't what it supposed to be.

[sinkwriter]

 

Of course, it's genius itself next to saying that speaking american english warps one's palate enough to be identifiable in a corpse.

 

Are you saying that part doesn't seem believable? I don't know... I've watched Bones and according to the woman who gives them the real science behind all their forensics, there's all sorts of things that they can figure out from the way a bone looks, so I imagine the same can be said for someone's palate. When I was a kid, my own dentist was able to tell that I'd been chewing my food on the left side of my mouth all the time - he said my teeth were wearing down more on that side than the other and I should try to pay attention to my chewing and actually switch sides once in a while. I hadn't even realized I was doing it! It's amazing what people can tell when they're trained to see it.

[henripootel]

I've watched Bones and according to the woman who gives them the real science behind all their forensics, there's all sorts of things that they can figure out from the way a bone looks

Funny you should mention this.  I'm in the same field as the chick on Bones (enough that were she a real person, we'd have certainly met by now) and I find the show completely and utterly unwatchable.  Beyond the fact that it's classic 'what stupid people think it's like to be smart', it's so relentlessly and mind-numbling preposterous that I can't watch 5 minutes without turning into an incoherent rage monster.  And I'm willing to put up with most any preposterous premise you can think of - immortals, magical powers, alien visitors?  I'm totally there.  'Extrapolations' that are utterly impossible, not just given modern technology, but the limits of actual physical reality?  No.  

Edited December 4, 2014 by henripootel

[sinkwriter]

Oh, don't get me started on the issues with Bones. We could talk all day.  *GRIN*

 

But you're saying it's completely impossible to discern changes in palate like you can discern changes in bone?

[shapeshifter]

Are you saying that part doesn't seem believable?

Okay, kids. I've got to go teach undergrads how to not lose their term papers, so y'all will have to see if this supports the show's thesis on palates: https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00391836/document

[henripootel]

But you're saying it's completely impossible to discern changes in palate like you can discern changes in bone?

I'm not a palate guy but no, there's no fucking way Henry could make this induction.  Bones modify over time due to behavior but the notion that the American English syllabic set would be sufficiently different from the British English set to make any such changes distinct - highly unlikely (which is to say, virtually impossible).  The idea that, even should these changes be present, that they'd be reliably discernible in a dead guy ...  I feel the rage monster stirring.  

 

The effects are likely to be minuscule (even if they exist) and lost in a natural range of variability orders of magnitude larger than the effect you're looking for.  It'd be like trying to see the effects of adding a cup of water to Lake Michigan - by definition the lake has gotten slightly fuller so the effect is actually there, but good luck trying to measure it even with the best instruments imaginable.  

Edited December 5, 2014 by henripootel

[Kromm]

Please note.  New York is actually a small town, according to Forever. How do we know this?  Because when they find a bike messenger through a similar looking scar he just HAPPENS to know the other bike messenger.

 

Note to writers:  New York actually has THOUSANDS of bike messengers. 

[henripootel]

Because when they find a bike messenger through a similar looking scar he just HAPPENS to know the other bike messenger.

And well enough to be able to identify him after he's disguised himself, and died.  That kinda ridiculousness I'm willing to overlook, that and the fact that they didn't identify the guy some other way first.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wait, you mean New York City isn't like Australia where everyone knows everyone?